Thank you for this, Phil. Having been in a high performing activity, we were told to walk things off. Made to feel ostracized for sitting out with injuries, illness, or discomfort. Now I’m my 30s, I realize it’s not worth giving your health to an organization that ultimately does not care about you as an individual. They won’t be paying your medical bills or for your memory care facility later in life.
Thanks Phil for this. In 2016, I was hit by a pick up cycling. I landed on the hood and cracked the helmet. Besides the multiple injuries (including facial laceration and broken nose) I felt I was knocked into a dream like state and took a minute come back to reality. My helmet was cracked and when I was in the trauma ER they told me "No concussion". I to this day feel like it was a missed diagnosis and they were focusing on the other broken bones and dislocated shoulder injury. From my own research (working in a hospital setting) I felt I fit the mild concussion criteria. Thanks for bringing this out and speaking out. Better safe than sorry.
Sorry to see that. I had the exact same situation in 2011. Hit by a truck, but released for the ER after 4 hours, despite a smashed helmet and with multiple fractures, but told “no concussion.” I sure hope the docs at those facilities are getting better in handling those scenarios.
As two time survivor of brain injury with multiple concussions I applaud you, Phil. Many of the toughes, most badass athletes on the planet die from CTE.... many committing suicide.
My issue with the incident of Stefan Kung is that neither the team nor the governing body stepped in. In that moment the rider is on the limit; heart rate is racing, and they just see the finish line. I think somebody else should’ve intervened!
Left cycling to speed skate due to concussions. I went 3yrs without any which is longer than I lasted during my cycling career. Got 2 a month apart(did recommended protocol), then 6 months later, I got in a very low speed car accident. This was 12yrs ago and my life will never be the same. Constant headaches, and hearing damage that makes me wish I would never hear anything ever again.
Crashed Saturday, woke up talking to people, so obviously was out cold thankfully… one of the people wouldn’t let me get back on my bike and ride home, as this was all I wanted to do, get home. Ended up being given a lift and have been sofa bound for the past 6 days with injuries and expect to be here for a while longer. One of the people asked me an brilliant question, my name and mobile number… I answered both questions which in their eyes showed I was awake, thankfully😊 Was happy no one allowed me to ride home😊👍
The first three questions: What is your name, where are you, what year is it? Asking who the president is comes up as well. If at any of these questions there are signs of searching for an answer, it's doctor time.
It’s great to see someone talking about this and helping explain things to amateur cyclists. I’ve had a few patients with chronic post concussion syndrome. Man it’s can really mess up a life for a long time, like months to years. As in totally unable to work. Unable to participate in any sort of social setting even reading books or screens will ruin their day. Nasty stuff.
Having had a few head injuries myself I am so glad you are bringing this to everyones attention! Just this summer I was in a gravel race and a rider right behind me crashed hard so our group of 5 stopped to make sure he was ok. He definitely had a head injury but the adreneline kept him trying to get back on the bike. We stalled him until a nurse arrived from the nearest aid station, it was wonderful watching her work on the obvious cuts and abrasions and talk to him at the same time for long enough he calmed down and actually said "I have a head injury, I'm not going anywhere".
Great video on an important topic. I know here in the UK, when a rugby player is suspected of concussion, there's a simple saliva swab which gives a fairly definitive yes no for concussions. Seems like it'd be a simple thing for team cars and the medical cars in races to have at hand.
Love the content! Dont forget your helmet is a consumable item. If it takes a hit replace it. Also, often the foam degrades with age and loses its effectiveness, (usa hockey enforces expiration dates on helmets)
One day I crashed. I didn't think there was any damage. I had no cuts or bruises. I don't recall hitting my head. I dusted myself off, took a short breather and continued riding. That was the last thing I remember. When I woke up I was on the ground with broken ribs and arm. I don't even remember the second crash.
I've had a couple concussions from race events and more recently from getting hit by a car. No one including my doctor did a proper assessment and it wasn't until watching a vodcast on TBI treatments that I realized how bad my damage was. I ended up getting out of pocket specialist treatment that has helped. I have training in evaluating concussions from my time doing water rescue work, based on my experience not only should race officials get training on evaluating concussions, but doctors need training in evaluating post trauma symptoms.
Perfectly timed video, driver pulled out in front of me two days ago and I hit the side of his car head first at 50km/h. Lazer genesis helmet saved my life according to paramedics.
Thanks Phil, you're shedding light on an important topic. A few years ago I got a concussion after crashing on my bike. I don't remember the crash or my ride home. I "woke up" while I was back in my living room with a torn jersey and I realized what happened. Luckily there was no other significant injury for me, but it is a serious issue that shouldn't be waved off when a rider gets hurt.
Thanks for having this discussion. I guess the verdict might still be out on me! As a junior way back in the late 80's and early 90's I fell on an early morning spin with a teammate (and I even think we went without helmets for some strange reason that day) when I hit the notorious summer green slime in the gutter on a turn in a suburban neighbordhood in Redlands CA. The bummer part was we left for a stage race that day in Casper Wyoming and even though I got checked out at an ugrent care I remember feeling terrible on that very long drive. Let's just say those following days during the stage race were maybe not my best. It was then Nationals in Texas after that and then finally Bisbee after that. So let's hope none of it caused too much damage, ugh. But maybe some of that racing wasn't as bad as I assumed all these years. Those were hugely memorable races and good times, despite, the headache that first day etc. And everyone in the van telling me not to sleep!
Given that our ability to self-assess is impaired precisely when we most need it, I think the only safe self-assessment protocol should be: always stop for ten minutes on the side of the road. Only get on the bike after ten minutes have passed and you are absolutely certain that you are fine. This also gives other people time to see you, and if you become disoriented your instinct will hopefully not be jumping on the bike.
Absolutely zero self assessment should be relied upon in head impact crashes, especially not in so short a time frame like 10 minutes. Concussion symptoms aren't always easy to spot "in the field" and can take time to become more visible, even to trained medical professionals. Athletes have essentially zero ability to give an unbiased opinion, especially when their judgement has been affected by a head injury. If you've ever been around someone who has suffered a concussion, you'll know that the symptoms can sometimes be very subtle, and take hours or days to fully reveal themselves. People can sometimes go about their lives in a quite normal way initially, to the outward observer, but then have zero memory of it. We know that the earlier it is diagnosed, the better and that allowing someone to continue sport immediately after a head injury risks further damage to the brain and increases the risk of a second injury due to the loss of motor skill that comes with these injuries. A better approach would be a mandated check by a doctor paired with a mandated set of shock indicator sensors on helmets, and in riders ears, for all UCI teams. Similar sensors are used in F1 to give medics immediate, unbiased data on the severity of a crash, and help guide their decisions. These indicators are relatively inexpensive and have long been in use in sport. Riders are already wearing ear pieces, and shock sensors can be added to the inside of helmets without impairing air flow.
I agree, though I'd say at least 6-8 minutes minimum as opposed to just assuming 10 (and there are definitely times when 10 isn't going to be enough, too). It definitely needs to be long enough for a person's natural adrenaline peak to calm down. Was riding a long group ride a month ago (most of us were on a century) and a woman had a solo crash. No serious injury, fortunately, but she jumped up after a minute and seemed to feel, ok, I am good, let's ride. Another more experienced rider with us suggested we just take a few more minutes, and when her adrenaline rush wore off she was glad she hadn't jumped back on, and installed called for a ride. No concussion in that instance, but being a mile down the road when the emotion of the experience finally hit would not have been very safe either.
Great video. Many times watching races this season alone, when a rider crashed I was surprised to see the medical team let them immediately get back on the bike because you could see the rider smacked their head hard on the pavement.
Surprising he said sleep is great as I have had a doctor say that going to sleep straight away is risky as the internal bleeding etc. might go unnoticed. Not that the instruction would have been not to sleep at all, but to have someone waking you up periodically to check all is good.
Thanks for raising this topic, lots of good advice in the video. My concern is how much authority a first responder (who may just be a spectator at the roadside) could have to call out an incident of concussion when the rider is in a high stakes situation and under a lot of pressure to continue riding. I think this needs to be a wider conversation in the sport so everyone understands how they can make good decisions in the moment.
I think he was speaking more of non-medical and non-team staff but that are still part of the race and can be trained according to the protocoll. Like the neutral service car or motorcycle. Not a random spectator? Though it did sound like that at first.
I mentioned this earlier in another thread; totally on team management for not grabbing his bike and stopping him. You likely will realize that you're concussed its on the team management to stop a rider.
Fascinating stuff, I crashed and cracked a helmet. I couldn't remember my address but could direct the taxi driver to the house. Immediately after the crash I remounted and rode a couple of Kms, I was unaware of the broken clavicle and torn adductor. But there may also be longer term stuff on the depression/anxiety/suicide shit going on. I will be talking to my GP to chase this up. Interesting and frightening as fuck too.
Everytime I consider getting back into road cycling one of Phils videos pops up on my feed and I decide not to. 🙂 Well guess Ill head to the park later and do some running.
Excellent content - thank you! I’ve had several hard slams a couple of which were certainly concussions (broken helmets), and I’ve seen other take similar hits. If I’d known then what I know now - especially with some of the updated info in this vid - I’d have handled things a little differently.
I get that cycling is a tough sport. But another crash in that state and you are in a really bad place. Absolutely no reason to continue unless you are solo in the wilderness
A someone who has suffered a TBI as a result of being run down by a car, I take brain injuries pretty seriously. So, thank you for this. As for who is at fault -- someone needs to single out the UCI. But I guess his sock height was fine and he wasn't wearing a glucose monitor so they had not cause for stopping him. Just a ridiculously irresponsible look for the UCI ... one of hundreds from this year alone.
I had multiple concussions playing hockey as a kid and kept playing. If I did the same biking back then before we knew better, I would have kept racing. I'm very likely paying for all of that now
guys...the helmet you choose makes a difference, I use only POC, i have a ventral AIR MIPS, was going 72MPH and my disk brakes locked up and i hit the ground head first...walked away and finished the ride with only scratches.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for this, Phil. Having been in a high performing activity, we were told to walk things off. Made to feel ostracized for sitting out with injuries, illness, or discomfort. Now I’m my 30s, I realize it’s not worth giving your health to an organization that ultimately does not care about you as an individual. They won’t be paying your medical bills or for your memory care facility later in life.
Thanks Phil for this. In 2016, I was hit by a pick up cycling. I landed on the hood and cracked the helmet. Besides the multiple injuries (including facial laceration and broken nose) I felt I was knocked into a dream like state and took a minute come back to reality. My helmet was cracked and when I was in the trauma ER they told me "No concussion". I to this day feel like it was a missed diagnosis and they were focusing on the other broken bones and dislocated shoulder injury. From my own research (working in a hospital setting) I felt I fit the mild concussion criteria. Thanks for bringing this out and speaking out. Better safe than sorry.
Sorry to see that. I had the exact same situation in 2011. Hit by a truck, but released for the ER after 4 hours, despite a smashed helmet and with multiple fractures, but told “no concussion.” I sure hope the docs at those facilities are getting better in handling those scenarios.
As two time survivor of brain injury with multiple concussions I applaud you, Phil. Many of the toughes, most badass athletes on the planet die from CTE.... many committing suicide.
My issue with the incident of Stefan Kung is that neither the team nor the governing body stepped in. In that moment the rider is on the limit; heart rate is racing, and they just see the finish line. I think somebody else should’ve intervened!
Left cycling to speed skate due to concussions. I went 3yrs without any which is longer than I lasted during my cycling career. Got 2 a month apart(did recommended protocol), then 6 months later, I got in a very low speed car accident. This was 12yrs ago and my life will never be the same. Constant headaches, and hearing damage that makes me wish I would never hear anything ever again.
Crashed Saturday, woke up talking to people, so obviously was out cold thankfully… one of the people wouldn’t let me get back on my bike and ride home, as this was all I wanted to do, get home. Ended up being given a lift and have been sofa bound for the past 6 days with injuries and expect to be here for a while longer. One of the people asked me an brilliant question, my name and mobile number… I answered both questions which in their eyes showed I was awake, thankfully😊 Was happy no one allowed me to ride home😊👍
The first three questions: What is your name, where are you, what year is it? Asking who the president is comes up as well. If at any of these questions there are signs of searching for an answer, it's doctor time.
It’s great to see someone talking about this and helping explain things to amateur cyclists. I’ve had a few patients with chronic post concussion syndrome. Man it’s can really mess up a life for a long time, like months to years. As in totally unable to work. Unable to participate in any sort of social setting even reading books or screens will ruin their day. Nasty stuff.
Having had a few head injuries myself I am so glad you are bringing this to everyones attention! Just this summer I was in a gravel race and a rider right behind me crashed hard so our group of 5 stopped to make sure he was ok. He definitely had a head injury but the adreneline kept him trying to get back on the bike. We stalled him until a nurse arrived from the nearest aid station, it was wonderful watching her work on the obvious cuts and abrasions and talk to him at the same time for long enough he calmed down and actually said "I have a head injury, I'm not going anywhere".
Great video on an important topic.
I know here in the UK, when a rugby player is suspected of concussion, there's a simple saliva swab which gives a fairly definitive yes no for concussions.
Seems like it'd be a simple thing for team cars and the medical cars in races to have at hand.
Love the content! Dont forget your helmet is a consumable item. If it takes a hit replace it. Also, often the foam degrades with age and loses its effectiveness, (usa hockey enforces expiration dates on helmets)
One day I crashed. I didn't think there was any damage. I had no cuts or bruises. I don't recall hitting my head. I dusted myself off, took a short breather and continued riding. That was the last thing I remember. When I woke up I was on the ground with broken ribs and arm. I don't even remember the second crash.
Glad someone is saying it. If you crash hard enough to do that kind of damage to the helmet, you are going to be concussed.
I've had a couple concussions from race events and more recently from getting hit by a car. No one including my doctor did a proper assessment and it wasn't until watching a vodcast on TBI treatments that I realized how bad my damage was. I ended up getting out of pocket specialist treatment that has helped. I have training in evaluating concussions from my time doing water rescue work, based on my experience not only should race officials get training on evaluating concussions, but doctors need training in evaluating post trauma symptoms.
Thank your for being a real homie and looking out for our health ❤
Perfectly timed video, driver pulled out in front of me two days ago and I hit the side of his car head first at 50km/h. Lazer genesis helmet saved my life according to paramedics.
Thanks Phil, you're shedding light on an important topic. A few years ago I got a concussion after crashing on my bike. I don't remember the crash or my ride home. I "woke up" while I was back in my living room with a torn jersey and I realized what happened. Luckily there was no other significant injury for me, but it is a serious issue that shouldn't be waved off when a rider gets hurt.
Thanks for having this discussion. I guess the verdict might still be out on me! As a junior way back in the late 80's and early 90's I fell on an early morning spin with a teammate (and I even think we went without helmets for some strange reason that day) when I hit the notorious summer green slime in the gutter on a turn in a suburban neighbordhood in Redlands CA. The bummer part was we left for a stage race that day in Casper Wyoming and even though I got checked out at an ugrent care I remember feeling terrible on that very long drive. Let's just say those following days during the stage race were maybe not my best. It was then Nationals in Texas after that and then finally Bisbee after that. So let's hope none of it caused too much damage, ugh. But maybe some of that racing wasn't as bad as I assumed all these years. Those were hugely memorable races and good times, despite, the headache that first day etc. And everyone in the van telling me not to sleep!
Given that our ability to self-assess is impaired precisely when we most need it, I think the only safe self-assessment protocol should be: always stop for ten minutes on the side of the road. Only get on the bike after ten minutes have passed and you are absolutely certain that you are fine. This also gives other people time to see you, and if you become disoriented your instinct will hopefully not be jumping on the bike.
Absolutely zero self assessment should be relied upon in head impact crashes, especially not in so short a time frame like 10 minutes. Concussion symptoms aren't always easy to spot "in the field" and can take time to become more visible, even to trained medical professionals. Athletes have essentially zero ability to give an unbiased opinion, especially when their judgement has been affected by a head injury. If you've ever been around someone who has suffered a concussion, you'll know that the symptoms can sometimes be very subtle, and take hours or days to fully reveal themselves. People can sometimes go about their lives in a quite normal way initially, to the outward observer, but then have zero memory of it. We know that the earlier it is diagnosed, the better and that allowing someone to continue sport immediately after a head injury risks further damage to the brain and increases the risk of a second injury due to the loss of motor skill that comes with these injuries.
A better approach would be a mandated check by a doctor paired with a mandated set of shock indicator sensors on helmets, and in riders ears, for all UCI teams. Similar sensors are used in F1 to give medics immediate, unbiased data on the severity of a crash, and help guide their decisions. These indicators are relatively inexpensive and have long been in use in sport. Riders are already wearing ear pieces, and shock sensors can be added to the inside of helmets without impairing air flow.
I agree, though I'd say at least 6-8 minutes minimum as opposed to just assuming 10 (and there are definitely times when 10 isn't going to be enough, too). It definitely needs to be long enough for a person's natural adrenaline peak to calm down. Was riding a long group ride a month ago (most of us were on a century) and a woman had a solo crash. No serious injury, fortunately, but she jumped up after a minute and seemed to feel, ok, I am good, let's ride. Another more experienced rider with us suggested we just take a few more minutes, and when her adrenaline rush wore off she was glad she hadn't jumped back on, and installed called for a ride. No concussion in that instance, but being a mile down the road when the emotion of the experience finally hit would not have been very safe either.
@@MrKipperfish you are talking about UCI events. I'm talking about regular people riding alone.
Great video. Many times watching races this season alone, when a rider crashed I was surprised to see the medical team let them immediately get back on the bike because you could see the rider smacked their head hard on the pavement.
Surprising he said sleep is great as I have had a doctor say that going to sleep straight away is risky as the internal bleeding etc. might go unnoticed. Not that the instruction would have been not to sleep at all, but to have someone waking you up periodically to check all is good.
Thanks for raising this topic, lots of good advice in the video. My concern is how much authority a first responder (who may just be a spectator at the roadside) could have to call out an incident of concussion when the rider is in a high stakes situation and under a lot of pressure to continue riding. I think this needs to be a wider conversation in the sport so everyone understands how they can make good decisions in the moment.
I think he was speaking more of non-medical and non-team staff but that are still part of the race and can be trained according to the protocoll. Like the neutral service car or motorcycle. Not a random spectator? Though it did sound like that at first.
This was great! Thanks. Also, its great to take a CPR/First aid course :)
I mentioned this earlier in another thread; totally on team management for not grabbing his bike and stopping him. You likely will realize that you're concussed its on the team management to stop a rider.
Every other sport (NFL,MLB,NBA) league wide regulations had to be enforced. Relying on the individual teams to monitor their players never worked.
Fascinating stuff, I crashed and cracked a helmet. I couldn't remember my address but could direct the taxi driver to the house. Immediately after the crash I remounted and rode a couple of Kms, I was unaware of the broken clavicle and torn adductor. But there may also be longer term stuff on the depression/anxiety/suicide shit going on. I will be talking to my GP to chase this up. Interesting and frightening as fuck too.
Great video, thanks Phil.
I like your stuff and this is probably the best stuff you have done. Kudos
this is an incredible video. thanks so much.
Thank you so much for this video. Well said.
Everytime I consider getting back into road cycling one of Phils videos pops up on my feed and I decide not to. 🙂 Well guess Ill head to the park later and do some running.
Thanks for this!
Lawson Craddock in the TdF? Stage 1. Finished the tour!
probably the number one indicator to me that I'm concussed is that I cannot look at any kind of screen for more than a minute.
Thanks Phil
Excellent content - thank you! I’ve had several hard slams a couple of which were certainly concussions (broken helmets), and I’ve seen other take similar hits. If I’d known then what I know now - especially with some of the updated info in this vid - I’d have handled things a little differently.
I get that cycling is a tough sport. But another crash in that state and you are in a really bad place. Absolutely no reason to continue unless you are solo in the wilderness
This was a great video
A someone who has suffered a TBI as a result of being run down by a car, I take brain injuries pretty seriously. So, thank you for this. As for who is at fault -- someone needs to single out the UCI. But I guess his sock height was fine and he wasn't wearing a glucose monitor so they had not cause for stopping him. Just a ridiculously irresponsible look for the UCI ... one of hundreds from this year alone.
thanks for the insights!
Having found out I have been concussed (not badly thankfully) a few times playing rugby years ago, I would not want to be riding my bike!
I had multiple concussions playing hockey as a kid and kept playing. If I did the same biking back then before we knew better, I would have kept racing. I'm very likely paying for all of that now
I remember racing with no helmet and the cycling leather helmets....
Agreed. Should have been removed from the race for concussion protocol at a minimum.
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Jk great video
Lol
If you think that your head knock wasn't too bad, then I have two words for you: Natasha Richardson.
My advice if you crash and hit your head is to listen to the women around you and not the men.
Brilliant work..top video 📹......
you still on the gear /???????
guys...the helmet you choose makes a difference, I use only POC, i have a ventral AIR MIPS, was going 72MPH and my disk brakes locked up and i hit the ground head first...walked away and finished the ride with only scratches.