As a professional working in the transportation industry, I personally do not believe that the boring company will have a significant impact on our system - although I do believe that the freight option is the *only* viable option for them. Keep in mind as well, freight routes do not necessarily have to travel for the full length between the two cities - perhaps a tunnel could be made to more quickly travel from the Port of LA to outside of the more densely packed LA region, then transitioning to standard freight trucks. Food for thought
I've never herd this view point explained very well. Wouldn't boring company's effect just be a matter of how many tunnels they end up making? I can imagine a point which most urban highways and freeways are underground.
That tunnel already exists. Called the Alameda Corridor. Built in the late 90's, it runs from Long Beach to the rail yards in East LA. It transports shipping containers by rail.
If the tunnels and vehicles can't fit standard containers, forget serving ports. At least they saw that. But once you're transporting containers you have to be more efficient than doublestacked rail. Small tunnel systems have been used and thrived in the past. They also eventually shut down. If TBC finds a niche it will rise and fall for the same reasons. Look up the Chicago freight tunnels and MailRail London. TBC doesn't have a relevant vehicle or routing software for passengers or cargo.
@@edwardmeer95 "All the things Elon talks about are failed projects" Oh yes, creating a company that launched more mass to orbit last year than every other space entity combined is practically the definition of "failed projects"... Good grief...
Subways take long to complete and cost whole lot. And whole idea of subway to me is questionable. Why are we spending billions to put people under ground? Because trucks and cars occupied our land, so we all better go underground? IMHO this makes no sense. In cities we should put freight and cars underground. And move massive transit systems to ground level or over ground in form of trams, buses, and light rail systems on pillars. If we only sending freight and cars down there then suddenly there is no need to have massive spaces excavated for our comfort.
@@willy4170 I have been on many ground, overground as well as underground transit systems as passanger arouns the world. Overground and ground are way superior to traveling person than the underground and it is cheaper to build too.
Promised 150mph, delivered 35mph. Promised $10 million per mile, delivered $55 million for a little over a kilometer. Also a standard shipping container has a cross section with a diagonal almost exactly the same as a TBC 12 foot tunnel. It won’t fit.
That may be true, but you would also have to consider that this is the first tunnel. That means they can get more efficient drilling operations, to a potential lower price. The tunnel size can be scaled up to accommodate the containers, and must be done if you want to have corners and more so if it is the long version of the containers. Speed... Can potentially be improved with time. That being said, I do see your point, but did he specifically promise that this prototype tunnel would have the specified speed?
@@naerbo19 the problem is that most of the promised speed increase is predicated on small tunnels. They make the tunnels bigger and they lose their advantage (assuming it really exists ). And then what did we learn from this prototype. It’s just a road tunnel and road tunnels have existed for almost as long as there have been cars. Shouldn’t the prototype demonstrate some advance in technology?
Budapest metro M1 line is the first electric line build in Europe. It was build in XVIII or XIX (I don't remember) century and it was dug much faster than elon's savage pipe. And they had to disassemble and reassemble the road. If Elon magic takes more time to dig a tunel than XIX century Hungary people really should rethink who they should support. And to compare this to something more modern, tunel under la'mange was dug faster than Vegas loop. And it has 3 lines compared that to Elon savage pipe.
@@PineappleDealer37 It sounds like you'd enjoy the content Adam Something makes, if you don't know him already I suggest you check him out. I think he brought up a similar point on comparing the M1 to the gamer tunnel
The Vegas Loop cost $55m for 0.8 miles. That's considerably more than the lie Musk was telling. It also has a max capacity of 1200 passengers per hour, nowhere near the numbers claimed. And all while abandoning any of the safety features that regular tunnels have. Musk is a con man. nothing more, nothing less. This video appears to take his con at face value. As Las Vegas is finding out to its cost - that's generally a bad idea.
I think a major concern with this is the lack of SOS points etc. It’s fine for containers but cars can fail. Not sure you want an Li fire with no escape hatch.
And the 55 million is what they charged for a FIXED COST contract (that went up anyways). The only way to know the true costs would be if The Boring Company opened their accounting books for scrutiny.
There are fixed costs that don't change, just because he promises X amount of dollars per mile doesn't mean a mile long tunnel costs X there are other costs involved that don't change with tunnel length.
@@sebastianflynn1746 Right, the largest of which is the Easement in an urban area. And yet, Boring disingenuously uses a figure for New York with exorbitant Easement costs when comparing their "cost" to the cost of actual tunnels with actual functionality.
@@dairallan easement costs are purely US thing, if you look at the rest of the world tunnels still cost at the very least 4x what the boring company managed. New York is an extreme example and easement costs are taken into account for the cost per mile (1.5-2.5 billion usd) the rest of the world even in places like India with very cheap labour costs per mile are 100 million per mile at the low end.
The problem with this loop is that it cannot handle a high volume of vehicles at the same time. Las Vegas is not a metropolis, so it is essentially irrelevant. By the way, in case you haven’t heard, tunnels have around for centuries.
Ya but previous methods of constructing tunnels have been around a billion a mile. The boring company has got it to a 10 million a mile. Interesting enough above ground highways expansions are around 100 million a mile.
@@Skinnymarks that’s only in New York for all the land, subway stations and infrastructure. The boring company has not actually brought the cost down of actually tunneling.
@@joeyhamilton6854 Sorry I couldn't make any sense of what you just said. The thought is too fragmented. What about new York? And why do you think the cost of the boring tunnels aren't cheaper, compaired to what? Previous methods used giant boring machines that ran on desil. That in itself drove up the costs of digging a tunnel. You would be right if you were talking about surface roads. Highway expansions in large cities dose indeed cost signifigantly more than constructing a rural road. I'm not sure what youre trying to get at.
5:08 Model: "Boss, for this stock footage, do you want me to type like a normal person or like an idiot?" Photographer: "Idiot's fine. No need to strain yourself."
As someone who works with telecom services i can tell you there are far more utility tunnels than those for traffic. Sewer system is a form of utility tunnel that can cover a signification amount of km alongside underground river tunnels and some "secret" tunnells undisclosed for the public but can house shelter as well as main infrastructure lines.
@@lostseeker88 which makes sense since Boring tunnels are smaller, I wouldn't brag about painting your house at half the price if I only paint half of it
What I am a little skeptical of about this vid is this: It takes 1-3 days to ship something in California 120 miles? That sounds... really odd. Excuse me, but where did that number come from? Little as 40 miles per day on average? Something is very wrong here! If what is taking most of the time is handling at the port and final location, then The Boring Companies tech in tunneling isn't going to necessarily help that all that much. We dont know if the freight loop can send 1 container per minute, maybe the number is two or it could be 0.3. It is probably mostly the infrastructure at each end of the tunnel that really sets that limit. The 10 million per mile figure is interesting, but what does competion cost? Do the tunnels have comparable width? And does the 10 million figure count for all soil types and depths? Probably not, right? We need far more data.
@eblman because faith is not a strong material to build with. Maybe in 10 years time, after proper trials, failures, accidents and crashes, something like may work but it's just a gimmick right now.
@@maxblinkhorn Man Don't Underestimate TheBORINGCompany As if they Don't Even Know Something like that As u know They Are also Part Of one of the Elon musk company That has Its Own Scientist Through his Other companies as well Around 5 or more companies that he owned one of those who reached the Light is Tesla And SpaceX as for the rest they still developing the same goes for TheBoringCompany And they have their research right and helpers through other companies and also if elon musk Successfully landed in the mars with starship Theirs a higher chance of getting stronger materials in it That hasn't existed in Earth That can be easily mined but very very hard and it can only be owned by one company that is elon musk And even if elon musk were to disappear This company will still work together to achieve something On colonization and deep space exploration with All of their projects and ideas combined throughout each company can create a massive achievement
@@FEURVERM The words "believer", "acolyte", and "flunky" spring to mind when I read your krazy komment. Of course, when the asteroid predicted by the holy man doesn't arrive, he will find himself feeling very stupid and even quite dead. You will be let down. And people will die for Musk's bonkersness.
@@maxblinkhorn It isn't faith if it is already being implemented. Then it is more a matter of expecting improvement, just like we expect pc's, smartphones, EV's, ... to improve.
Deeply sceptical about the earning potential of TBC. The over reliance on cars is already a severe problem for most countries and this is just another capacity increase. Capacity increase always leads to more traffic, instead capacity should go down and public spending should go to public transport.
@eblman No speed limits? Lol. You basically have to build a train track and use train wagons for the containers, so basically a train running under ground. And why do you think cargo trains can't travel fast? Because containers are very heavy and therefore needs incredible sturdy and straight tracks. So the cost of building the track itself, is at least as pricey, as building above ground. Also, you forget that you still need to pay land owners in the US, for building below their property.
@eblman going directly to a building will be almost impossible. You need a transfer method. Think about having to slow down and changing elevations. Also, no security check on a tunnel that I can't get out of? Sounds like a security nightmare :)
The Boring Company is developing boring machines. This, above all else, is what their focus is. The Las Vegas tunnel? It's a test of prototype boring machines that happens to have paid Tesla's expenses while they try out new engineering concepts. There's a lot of R&D ahead. But here's the thing we need to understand about the Boring Company: they will be doing things slowly for a few years while they develop new prototype boring machines, but when - if - they settle on a design, they are going to mass-produce them. Stop and think about that for a moment. Nobody in the world mass-produces boring machines. Production runs in the dozens is enough to make a boring machine producer an industry leader. Most aren't assembled in a factory at all; they're assembled at the job site. The Boring Company intends to produce *thousands* of boring machines annually. In a factory. And then use them. *This* is the vision that sets the Boring Company apart. The rest of the tunnel boring industry is exactly where automobiles were before Henry Ford: hand-made machines made in tiny batches. The Boring Company is not merely digging holes in the ground. They're digging holes in our civilization's status quo, and when they're done, we will be a 3-D civilization. Make no mistake, this is a hard task. Engineers will have to design tunneling machines that are *not* merely adequate for a specific job, *not* merely faster, *not* merely cheaper, *not* merely easier to operate. They must design tunneling machines that are intended from the start to be mass-produced in a factory. As Elon has said, making the prototype is easy. Mass-producing it is a hundred, maybe a thousand times harder. This is a high hurdle to clear, and the company must clear it while earning enough income not to go bankrupt. There is risk here, as there always is with Elon's companies in the early years. They might fail. Red ink can doom a company, even if it has good ideas. But if they succeed? The tunneling industry today is a gnat compared to the elephant it will become. And the Boring Company will stride over (or rather, under) the Earth like a colossus. Our imaginations today are insufficient to grasp the potential valuation of such a company. Looking at the size of today's industry cannot give us even a clue.
Nice work Sir. One difficult challenge I've not heard much about-- making concrete tunnel support rings out of spoils that are frequently if not constantly changing dramatically in composition, they will need to be modifying the recipe on the fly I'm assuming.
@@Mrbfgray Yeah. From an engineering standpoint, it's heavy lifting. But it can be broken down into steps. Figure out what's there, consult your recipe book, make samples, test, refine. It'll be a *big* recipe book, and they have to figure out how to make those steps go fast, too. Hard! But if they can pull it off? It'll be a game-changer.
The loop is a ridiculous idea. Move a fraction of what a subway train would and you’re now in the centre of town with your car, back in traffic and looking for parking. Tunnels barely large enough for one vehicle may be cheaper but they’re a bad idea for practicality and safety. Freight might be the only semi-workable use case.
I agree that taking your car into the city through a tunnel, then parking it all day only to take it back out through the tunnel makes zero sense. I think the Loops we see built will all be closed to outside vehicles.
Had this happen once when my transition just decided to stop existing as a transition. Had a cop shove me out of the road. Just stick the damn car in neutral and shove it out with another car. Not a big deal.
@@Skinnymarks Really? So what if the next exit it 5 miles out? What if the car had cached on fire? How do you get a firetruck into the tube and to the fire, with hundreds of cars behind the burning car? And how do you save those people from dying from smoke inhalation?
Hmm, this is honestly pretty redundant and expensive idea. if you city is so dense you need cars underground, first thing you should be thinking about is public transit. One bus can take potentially ~50 cars off the road, trains and metro can take hundreds. I mean why would you make expensive tunnel for individual cars when you could use it for metro? And you don't need tunnels anyways if density is not enough so anywhere where one could use one of these Tesla tunnels, metro would make more sense. City trains from city center to area round city, metro for dense core areas and active bus network can handle pretty much any city's transit needs to unburden roads. After that it's just proper city planning. Actually smarter use for these tunnels would be some type of mini metro that branches out from actual metro stations. You could basically cover whole city easily in web to get anywhere. You could take even buses off the streets inside the city.
The cost of traditional subways is untenable for cities like Los Angeles. Feeder systems connecting existing roads in spread out cities is critical. Los Angeles is 50 miles wide. Right now, Elon is offering to make a tunnel from Pasadena to Ontario airport for less than extending an existing rail line. His costs are far less per mile than traditional transport agencies.
asdf The Tesla bus tunnel is being planned between Pasadena and Ontario Airport right now. That will be very feasible. It’s supposed to travel at 120 MPH and will be point to point. It’s not the car carrier idea that you’ve seen on videos. I think that these ideas do need development, however, the shear cost and length of time comparisons between Boring and legacy public projects are so far apart that we are at the point where there will never be more legacy styled public projects. They are simply unaffordable doing it the old way. Time will tell.
@@jamesdellaneve9005 not really, the the boring company has only reduced cost by drilling smaller tunnels. The actual drilling is not what makes subways so expensive it’s the stations and getting people down to the trains. You would need a couple thousand elevators all over LA to move a comparable amount of people.
Look at all of the cities where centralized public transit works. They are all (or nearly all) cities that were initially mapped out during the horse and buggy days. In other words, very small areas. Now, look for this in cities that are 50 miles wide. In order for it to connect everything like in a very dense area, you need 50 times more track/tunnels which means less density and much lower utilization. These systems don’t exist because they can’t make economic sense. I enjoy using these systems in the urban dense cities, but just saying “Why doesn’t X have this”? Is an over simplification. And it’s an apple oranges kind of thing.
joey hamilton If the boring company decided to make tunnels the same size as the train tunnels, they would still be able to dig them for a tenth of the cost. People have no idea as to the cost for the public sector in the US to do these projects. We are drastically higher than any other country (corruption). A decade ago, we approved a high speed train from LA to San Fran. They’ve spent over a billion at this point and have less than a mile of track laid. My friend is a structural engineer for public works projects. They are planning to build a huge highway interchange. The planning phase is over a decade and will spend nearly a billion before approval and construction. One last thing, a highway exit ramp here in California must undergo a 7 year environmental impact study. It was funny when Elon just started digging under LA. None of the bureaucrats knew what to do. He didn’t ask permission a;d they were all looking at each saying, “I don’t want to stop him do you?”
The hypothetical delivery to “San Diego” only goes to a terminal in the region and would still need to be taken on a tractor-trailer to the final destination. The tunnel may take 60 containers per hour but how will the terminal dispatch or receive that many? How much land or excavation. is needed for that? Tunnelling is easy. It’s the stations, vehicles and control systems that are hard. Let’s see how they go at the LVCC with their capacity with four seat cars. A lot of hot air will be let out. It is still a viable system IMHO, but it is a niche system. It’s basically a subterranean Personal Rapid Transit system. It will be the first PRT in the US since Morgantown PRT opened in 1975. That was going to be the future of transit too.
Also your avarage train is and order of magnitude cheaper to buid (you don't need to tunnel trougth things) and still can be extremly fast and move way more than just 60 containers
@@Taka.1011 If the Boring Co figures are correct it might be closer than that. The tunneling saves on all the grade expensive separations for a railway. (FWIW I remain sceptical about the price per tunnel mile.) However the train line from Long Beach to San Diego already exists. There is no construction cost but there could be upgrades to improve average speed and minimise delays.
@@Taka.1011 Considering that it completely ignores operating costs of whatever transport system is used within in the tunnels and the way long distance tunnel building can vary wildly due to geology, especially in a place like California, you are probably right about that.
Having seen cartoons of Musk's tunneling machine, it functions exactly the same as current TBMs. A giant, rotating rock crushing face (it will still need to stop to replace the cutting wheels when the wear) a conveyor to remove the tailngs, a second conveyor to bring in the pre=cast segments to line the tunnel. Musk says that the TBM will have 3x the power, that it going to make bricks out of rock (bricks need a binder such as clay) TBMs don't work very well in soft materials such as clay, sand and dirt (look up what happened when a TBM got stuck underground in Seattle )
@@charlesbartlett2569 It doesn't matter how the ground gets wet. TBMs will have a problem in wet terain. For every tunnel the ground needs to be measured and if there is to much liquid in the ground you will have to blast your way trough it.
@@Benetekt I live and work in Florida where the water table is a few feet below the ground. I have worked on several tunneling projects. There is no problem tunneling through water. You have to use a clay slurry to maintain pressure at the cutting head so you don’t over excavate and remove too much soil material. Earth pressure balance machine (EPBM) is the type of tunneling machine for these soil conditions.
Good video, just a little suggestion: To me it felt like the video ended very abruptly, maybe a letting the music play for longer and fading out more slowly would help. Or a short "thank you for watching bla bla". Keep it up!
Thank you! I am glad you liked it. But I do abrupt endings for a reason. Audience Retention. The longer I drag out the ending of my videos, the more people will leave the video prematurely which will creates a lower audience retention. Which will make the algorithm think that it isn't as good of a video and then it won't recommend it as much.
@@schmetterling4477 Lol dude before you start denying anything, it's not just a quote, it's a literal CGI video that was produced and featured on national TV. The original video + commentary of Hyperloop, look it up and also look for the frontal talk Elon gave after this video hit nation wide TV... He says even greater than 150 mph, but even the smaller "pod" for 10 people don't even fit in the tunnel they dug.... Literally nothing he said came true, not even the self driving part, even though it's a tiny tunnel
with metro systems they are cheaper to maintain then cars, they carry a lot more people and new signalling systems are coming so they will not be delayed.
Yeah they are not doomed to be delayed. Have you seen japan’s metro systems? They’re almost never late. We should be investing more in better metro technology, not this mess.
@@angussmith8915 that’d be great and cool if he could actually get it to be equivalent to trains. This abomination can barely carry over 1200 people per hour. If he could get this to work with public transit on a larger scale I’m all for it.
TBM companies work in an extremely competitive market with constant innovation to handle constantly changing ground conditions. Speed is everything when it comes to cost. It’s hard to believe that one company can outperform the others by such a wide margin to get the cost down to $10 million per mile. It’s even harder to believe when they are all using the same TBM platform for tunneling. Eliminating expensive access shafts at entrances and exits saves a lot of money but all companies could do it.
Musk is the most brilliant person on earth. I mean he has apparently outsmarted every engineer who has ever worked on the problem of how to make tunnels economically viable.
@@tuckere5380lol I couldn't tell it was sarcasm, you sound exactly like his fanboys who somehow believe his stupid loop will revolutionise transportation
@@tuckere5380 Not true in many urban environments, these days. Yes, construction costs are way up there but acquisition costs are close to zero. And in major cities acquiring the land can be a major part of the cost.
@@q.e.d.9112 Musk claims to have invented a “new” way of building tunnels that is less expensive. The acquisition costs are the same for the city/county, etc. no matter who builds it. Again, tunnels are not new. They are very complex and expensive. For TBC there are no robo taxis, let alone robo-busses. Working Hyperloop technology is probably 50-100 years away. TBC digital videos are not even state of the art. Musk is a confidence man and dreamer at best. You can’t really even give him credit for Tesla cars, as he did not create or invent them.
This has most revolutionary potential of all his companies. Totally slashing cost of tunnels are so big. However, there is a sixth use of their tunnels not on the list Elon has vaguely mentioned as a reply on a question. Construction on other worlds. Construction on moon, mars and asteroid mining. You get shelter with much lower radiation. And the boring bricks all the sudden will be high value building material as its manufactured outside earth and doesn’t have to pay freight cost. Asteroid mining is believed to be a multi billion dollar industry within a few decades.
@@colonelsanders4006 I’m sorry man, this have been a tough year for everyone. Try to keep the spirit up for a while, in half a year we might start to see some light in the end of the tunnel. Meanwhile, there is still a lot to live for. Like the creativeness people are doing to survive. It’s inspirational if you are able to see it. Godspeed mr sanders.
Here's an even better recommendation: "The VEGAS LOOP: Just As Stupid As You Think" by Adam Something ruclips.net/video/QvK2i9Jxy5c/видео.html&ab_channel=AdamSomething
It was an amazing video and I really enjoyed it. However I have one thing that will help improve your video, it would be nice if you had a outro. Becous now the video ended abrupt. Just say som things like tanks for watching, have a niche day, don't forget to subscribe and like (people are more likely to subscribe if the video was great than if the haven't seen anything). I think that would make a difference on the overall experience Edit: I just wanted to add that the actual entertaining part of the video was perfect in my opinion
You have taken the time to help me in the nicest way possible, by giving me actual constructive criticism. So first of all, thank you for that! But there is actually a reason for ending my videos "abruptly", and that has to do with Audience retention. Which is something that is very important to creators as RUclips will recommend videos to more people the higher the Audience retention a certain video has. So ending the video "abruptly" after I have made my final point is the best way to keep the retention high at the end of the video. Because usually, a RUclipsr like myself would experience a massive drop in retention towards the end of the video which is caused by viewers leaving. Why are they leaving? Well, because in their minds the video is over and you are basically keeping them there to say thank you and goodbye, which normally would be a great thing. But on RUclips, time is everything. And unfortunately, no one want's to stick around when they know the video is over. And again thank you for taking the time to help me make better videos I truly appreciate it. And I hope I clarified it!
Alright you convinced me. Subbed. I watch a lot of Wendover, City Beautiful, Tom Scott type channels and the algorithm keeps recommending you so I bet you're going to take off pretty soon. I'd be interested in more videos about Denmark and Scandinavia btw- I'm sure you'll have some good insights.
The Boring Company has ZERO unique products. All those different tunnels can be built by any company. Any company can but the exact same TBMs they used in Vegas or a TBM of any size and start producing tunnels. Ignorant videos and commentary such as this that have no idea that TBMs are state of the art just add to the ignorance of the general public.
All the utility lines that could be in that tunnel are just along the streets in Germany, one or two meters under the sidewalk. But each is separate, with some sand in between. (In dense areas, there are small utility tunnels for power and communication, with many branches) You need documentation of the layout, but every utility needs to know about its own plan only. You want to fix a water pipe? Just take care not to cut the phone lines. It is flexible: The layout is independent, there can be branches in one, but not the other line. And to connect a new home, you just need a small backhoe and splice in your water/electricity/gas/fiber lines (Communication is combined into one flexible pipe, where you can just add more cables by blowing them in with some pressured air. If there is glass fiber, I assume there are some extra dark fibers also.) With a tunnel, the flexibility just does not work. (Power and phone lines above the ground are even more flexible in the layout) So I would not expect it is helpful for utilities in that sense. But there are certainly specialty applications for these tunnels, it is just the tunnel for "other uses". Like the particle accelerator in your back yard, and under many neighbors' homes, for example.
But why choose the Boring TBM for these things, they provide no advantage compated to TBMs of other companys, the cost saving Elon presented compare a fully build subway tunnel with traintracks and everything else, compared to a tube, that is put into the ground. If you correct his presentation and compare his tube in the ground with tubes manufactured with other TBMs, you would notice, that his tunnel costs exactly as much as any other tunnel. And it totaly makes sense, because is you just build a "traditional" TBM and put it into a fancy housing, you still have a traditional TBM.
Las Vegas Musk Tunnel distance covered in less than 3 minutes in my country by free transportation LuxTram : @N-yo No need to wait for a car, no need to climb stair and faster overall and transporting more people per hour. Facts. Luxtram > Musk Boring Tunnels European Tunnels > Musk Boring Tunnels Bullet Trains > Hype(r)loop in terms of peoples per hour transported, cost efficiency and security. @Md4E and again in my country with the funiculaire how in 2 minutes to avoid 7 miles 40 minutes traffic jams in Luxembourg City to access fast trains by bypassing the streets completely through the mountain. The Musk's Las Vegas boring tunnel system is laughable in comparison.
honestly , I can’t , it’s filled with bs that is obvious to me . It requires too much work and maintenance Society is locked into individual transportation and his ideas may be of some value . But individual transportation will always be a huge mistake ; and nothing will fix or overcome that .
It isn't necessarily faster I'd guess, but adding extra capacity to an above ground rail network isn't easy or cheap, so once a line runs at capacity everything more will cause delays. The idea of the boring tunnel is more that you can just create more capacity. There probably are other reasons too probaby though (like geography, interconnections on the rail line, ...)
LVCC was really great marketing campaign. Did not't deliver what was promised, did not delivered what was required in the project, didn't even meet basic safety regulations and is totally useless. LOL
When you truly think deep about the implications of Boring company tunnels used to move around water, you realize that this is not a tunneling and mass transit infrastructure company, but a Terraforming Company with the potential to reverse climate change by delivering the fuel (water) to the living machines needed for carbon removal (plants) and prevent/protect against flooding in the process. These are all the learnings and projects necessary to do, not only to improve and preserve life/civilization here on earth, but to colonize mars
Soooo musk is selling utility tunnels, freight routes, and everything-but-a-subway transport system for the few (10000people/hour is nothing compared to good subway lines that can go up to 1million/day), services that are supposed to be provided by the public sector, because it's of a general interest? I don't understand why people accept taxes being spent on roads, and private expensive toll roads being a bad thing, but private tunnels are good? It's more a comment on the failure of the public sector to respond to the need of citizens than it is inventiveness of the private sector. And seriously, why can't the tunnels be bigger? You better not transport flammable goods in tose containers. Aren't there bigger tbms out there? He is literally reproducing the private railway model of the 19th century, but underground. And we know how that ended, harmonization and regulation were necessary for safety. It might be a good idea in the US with its difficulty to implement railway travel, but I'm weary of the private aspect of it. I hope he'll be a contractor for public projects, nothing more.
What's with that lift system and how long does that take to merge a car from this boring tunnel to whatever highway that car would end up on on the other side?
I d be careful with this one, in most countries infrastructure is a government domain, and yes this will ultimately be Boring companies largest costumers, but as far as I know the boring company will not own these tunnels they will just build them.
Why do people say the boring company 'can' do these things? At best they 'are going to', but realistically its 'they claim they will'. Its exciting to see if they could do it but so far they have achieved none of these things
If it can fit a standard (20ft?) shipping container, then why do they even bother with the loop? I mean, cars fit just fine in standard shipping containers (it kinda is how they are shipped), and depending on model and how daring you are you can fit one or two cars in each container (might require an angle), or even up to four cars for some models. Now think about that, now rather than one car per "routing unit" you will have 1-4 cars per "routing unit", this is a massive gain alone. But doing it with containers also mean you can really cut back on safeties (you just need to verify the box), you will get a technology-agnostic transportation (petrol car? just shut off the motor and have a forced convection until the air is clean enough before you ship it through the tube), will allow for upgrades (want a partially evacuated maglev in there? just switch the system to air tight containers and put a maglev bogie/truck on it), will allow much tighter feeding to the routing (have the slow parts (the "park on transport stuff") at an entry point, and the ship the containers off as soon as they are cleared), and it will allow for much tighter routing (people in a container don't scream if the container ahead is only a feet/30cm ahead, but in a car that can see outside many will panic). It also would allow you to chain the containers together and run then in a string, let's call that a "train"... (Basically with the current "loop" your routing and feed rates will basically top out of that of a normal road tunnel, but in reality will be a lot closer to a road tunnel with a traffic signals. A "freight loop" could get the routing and feed levels on the level of a small aircraft airport. And a "frieght loop train" could get it to the point of a low capacity train system. The "freight systems" would allow for massive upgrades and be goods angostic (allow for mixed traffic)) Basically - if you do it with shipping containers alone you basically just have re-invented a low-capacity train system (yes, a low capacity train system have a mindboggling capacity), but you would end up with a capacity a lot higher than the current set-up. (I'd guess their issue is that if they would re-invent a low-capacity train it would make it obvious for people to compare it to trains rather than cars, and trains are ruthlessly effecient while cars are basically the antithesis of efficiency)
I don't think the idea is to keep the routing unit longterm, rather have the cars autonomously drive in the tunnels, meaning they just drive in, go on, drive out without any extra steps. I don't think they'd ever let petrol cars in, even with a routing unit, this goes against Musks goal to electrify transport. Moreover by 2030 most new cars sold are likely to be electric, and by 2040 there probably won't be petrol cars sold anymore except for niche models. By 2050 finding a petrol car on the road is likely going to be very difficult. Therefor it is rather wastefull to try and include petrol cars in the boring tunnel concept. semi evacuated maglev (or essentially hyperloop), would most likely get their own boring tunnels if hyperloopcompanies decide to work together with the Boring company. For now it doesn't seem like boring company is going to go into the hyperloop concept in any other way than as a tunneling partner, but we'll see I guess. The idea also is that automated driving with (possibly) communicating cars can act as a train, just without the interlinking and therefor is much more flexible (adding, detracting "wagons"). Putting cars in a container or something similar seems like a lot more hassle for not really much gain comparatively. The advantage of the train is more the rails than anything else once automated driving is on point (which will be easier to get done in a closed off environment like the boring tunnels). As for the panic, people will get used to it and they won't be allowed to take control of the car while in the tunnel, most likely they'll either just be checking something/waiting or on longer trips distracting themselves with videos, games, talking, music, ... People that are afraid of the close distance can even just keep their eyes closed or something similar. People can get used to a lot of things, if you put people from 100+ years ago in a car on the driveway they'd freak out (even if they know everything). Humans are rather good in adapting.
@@MDP1702 If they have the cars themselves go there they they are in effect limited to about 180-200kph and with horrible efficencies - having dedicated routing containers would allow for having proper rolling (or maglev) stock (and also to do mixed freight at "volume"). I'd still be in the workforce by 2050 and I know petrol cars still will be common for me - but I'm one of those that gets called upon for some grid issues (electrical cars suck when the grid is down for more than a few hours). But also, having a setup for petrol cars would also allow for hydrogen cars, and as stated it would also allow for a modified atmosphere tunnel - so no need to have separate solutions for if you want to do boring or hyperloop. Rails, being able to stack in height(!), controlled airflow (resistance), booms/shockwaves whenever a joining tunnel merges (or tunnel openings), strict service schedules (breakdown will be a fun issue otherwise). Cars are quite frankly horrible in terms of effeciency (even when alone). (For the shockwaves alone - take a look at the generations of shinkansen, the "nose" are all about shockwave mitigation) And yet we still have people afraid of flying... it will limit your market. Basically doing a hyperloop with automobile carriages ("normal cars") will impose some rather drastic limits (well beyond what anyone who've never been near germany will have experienced, but even so...) If you want to get "really out there" in what "shoving cars into containers" would allow for - imagine driving into a container, taking a nap, and waking up far away with a fully charged car (nothing that prevents you from doing catenaries to the containers), or if you also have a station near a lake (black sea, caspian sea, the great lakes) have it routed onto a ground effect vehicle. Basically the concept of a non-standardized unit imposes huge limitations.
@@Herr_U *If they have the cars themselves go there they they are in effect limited to about 180-200kph* 180-200kph is way more then on the highway, limited to doesn't fit this sentenced. Most trains are slower then that, only highspeed rail is better, and you don't want to use a high speed train that is bigger than these cars in a small tunnel, that wouldn't be doable. Honestly 180-200kph is actually very optimistic, for cars I expect more like 150-160kph and for freight more like 100-120 kpm at most. Any higher you essentially need to start looking at the hyperloop concept with a semi-vacuum. *and with horrible efficencies* And how would this be different with a routing container exactly? This will be less aerodynamic, thus have much more drag. *having dedicated routing containers would allow for having proper rolling (or maglev) stock* With other words you are talking about a hyperloop, not the boring tunnel concept anymore, these are two distinct concepts. *I'd still be in the workforce by 2050 and I know petrol cars still will be common for me* How do you know that? Why would it still be common for you? *(electrical cars suck when the grid is down for more than a few hours).* For this you most likely would have EV with much greater range, or indeed a petrol car, like I said petrol can possibly still be used in niche circumstances. But then you might have to take some extra petrol with you in jerry cans, since petrol station will likely have become very uncommon by then. *But also, having a setup for petrol cars would also allow for hydrogen cars* Hydrogen cars don't stand a chance: expensive, not much more range than many EV's, expensive hydrogen stations that are rather few in numbers, high hydrogen prices, terrible efficiency, ... Hydrogen in personel vehicles will only be a niche product, if it isn't scrapper completely. Ofcourse this is unless hydrogen cars suddenly make extreme jumps forward, which is rather unlikely. *so no need to have separate solutions for if you want to do boring or hyperloop.* They have completely different goals. Yes, hyperloop might work together with hyperloop companies, but boring company tunnels and the tesla system won't suddenly be changed to a hyperloop concept, just not going to happen. *Rails, being able to stack in height(!), controlled airflow (resistance), booms/shockwaves whenever a joining tunnel merges (or tunnel openings), strict service schedules (breakdown will be a fun issue otherwise). Cars are quite frankly horrible in terms of effeciency (even when alone). (For the shockwaves alone - take a look at the generations of shinkansen, the "nose" are all about shockwave mitigation)* Again, this is more hyperloop, not the boring tunnel concept. *Basically doing a hyperloop with automobile carriages ("normal cars") will impose some rather drastic limits* This isn't even a discussion, the boring company doesn't do hyperloop, the using cars in boring company tunnels has nothing to do with hyperloop, that is a completely different issue/concept. It seems you are mixing 2 different concepts that have nothing to do with eachother, other then that the boring company could make tunnels for both and do both: tunnels with cars for shorter trips, tunnels for hyperloop for long trips. Hyperloop needs tracks of at least 10-20 km just to get up to speed (depending on the acceleration and topspeed) and another similar distance to slow down. That means you need at least a track of 20-40km, probably a lot more, since you don't want to be constantly accelerating and decelerating. Hyperloop is great to connect cities, however it isn't usefull to connects smaller area's, like part of a city, city with suburbs, a track with stops/offramps 'quite often', .... In other words the boring company Tesla/EV tunnel is meant as something more like regular streets and highways, only with faster speeds and no real traffic, the hyperloop is meant as a replacement of high speed rail systems, to connect cities/area's of large distances.
Fundamental problem with your assumptions is - not only Elon , but actually any tunnel boring company can make tunnels of such specifications for 10M$. Boring tunnels up to 4-5m diameter is a common and cheap practice. Elon mislead the public by comparing his tunnel to subway tunnels which.... A: are substantially larger (6-12m, and btw 6m tunnel is 2x more expensive than 4m tunnel, price increases exponentially with diameter) B: are full of technology which makes 70% of the costs
The Boring company is a play on words. Boring tunnels underwater to segmented bases along the pacific/Atlantic rim could be a good or bad conspiracy. Potential for illegal immigration cross-Atlantic could be detrimental.
In your discussion of utility-purposed tunnels, you mention sewer pipes running through the tunnels. Sewer lines ideally follow downward-sloping topography so as to allow gravity to move the nasty stuff along in the general direction of the facility which "treats" the sewage. With a tunnel, though, topography can be ignored. You simply dig the tunnel so that it slopes downward by the required amount. When you get to the treatment plant the tunnel might be fairly deep below the surface. But it seems doable to create a large collection cavity below the treatment plant where sewage would accumulate, perhaps from several different tunnels serving different municipal regions. Submersible lift pumps would raise the effluent up to the surface where it would be treated. Note: the tunnel itself would be the pipe, it would not contain the pipe. This might require a more impermeable tunnel wall than would be the case for other uses. Conceptually, it seems to me, this construction technique would be radically less expensive than those currently in use. I'm not an engineer, so I may have overlooked something, but it seems to me that this would work.
Problem might be how to get the sewage into these tunnels, the deeper the tunnel, the deeper a linking system and thus more expensive. Also what if something happens, you can't easily reach the sewage tunnels and easily swap out parts. Interesting idea, but a lot of things to consider.
yep i have been thinking about freight. automated trailer beds with third rail power, so no batteries. straight point to point tunnels from say san diego to houston, to hampton roads to NY. cross country cargo in hours. No weather delays, no trucker hours of service, etc.
@ no reason for them to take to the final destination. the tunnel operator would just provide the tunnel service. As pure automated tunnel container bed, it would not need much of a suspension, nor much else other than the electric motors, at two wheels, some kind of basic steering and a frame. maybe a foam aerodynamic nose on each end. Basically maintenance-free, no battery charging time, and cost a fraction of a full vehicle with batteries. Hell, steer with drive motor speed control, then you dont even need a steering system.
Any indication how they make these tunnels so cheaply? Understand reusing the excavated material is planned to be used to form the lining, but will that be enough to make sure the tunnels are stable, especially in an earthquake prone area like California?
It seems to be mostly the diameter, tunneling speed, and the electric drivetrain for propulsion and drillplate. Less time spent tunneling means less man-hours and the boring machine is freed up for more jobs sooner so you need less of them. Smaller diameter means smaller tunneling machine. Electric drivetrain needs less maintenance, less ventilation, and less fuel/power costs. The usage of "waste" materials is apparently much less significant? Though still important.
In that small túnel you get a fast death or a slow one from craching or from not being able to escape your now burning car... You also get to kill most people on the túnel from the gasses...
Damn....I had thought that I forgot to subscribe was about to then good thing I didn't. Hearing all the Praise of Elon & Boring was ridiculous & just incorrect.
The point would be that 'regular' cars can drive in it, ie. people get there car into the tunnel to avoid above ground traffic, they still need to have the rear view mirrors for regular driving. Also dedicated transport vehicles for these tunnels are unlikely to have rear view mirrors. As for a disabled cars with injured passengers, that only seems possible in case of an accident, we'll still have to see how often this happens and if necessary they'll create specially designed emergency vehicles and trained personnel, though again, the question is how likely of an occurance this would be. If you get injured passengers due to something not caused by the car, the car could just drive them to the nearest exit point (an emergency button might be nice) and maybe even raise an alarm beforehand. As for a disabled car in the tunnel without injured passengers, it probably would depend on how it is disabled, in most cases it would just be towed to the nearest exit most likely, though I don't really see many reasons as to why a car would have this happened. In all cases I guess there likely will be an emergency protocol clearing the tunnel and if on that location you have multiple tunnels (different routes or for extra capacity), cars would likely get redirected untill the tunnel is clear. Ofcourse there isn't just a great solution for these kind of problems, but that isn't really different from accidents above ground, which can cause massive traffic jams etc. and with the accident site not always easily reachable due to this traffic. I do think any car entering the tunnel most likely would need to be certified (ie definitey yearly check up etc), it helps that EV's have less things than can break and cause a car to crash/come to a standstill on its own. And automated systems tend to be safer, especially when they all are automated and thus no real unexpected behaviours happens.
Well your freight cost/idea isn’t as simple as you made it sound. The $1000 you mentioned from LA to San Diego is to door, meaning container is pickup at port LA and delivered directly to consignee in SD. If, let’s say, they go into a tunnel pipeline there would have to be door deliver from the “tunnel” terminal in SD to final consignee, which would be 500-700 per 20’/40’ + cost of tunnel. You would also need a truck to move it from port terminals (where vessels berth) to the “tunnel” terminal. Unless tunnel is located close to Long Beach you are looking at additional 400-500. It’s way more likely California (maybe NV, NM, AR) FCL deliveries will be serviced by an autonomous fleet of i.e. Tesla Semis
The Loop system videos that shows Open holes as the car carrier lift drops below the surface without any guard rails around it makes no sense. Only a PR Job, these would need guard rails surrounding the hole until an automated cover secures the holes. I would expect in the end this would be a drive in entrance with at least concrete and glass walls on three sides and a good sized barrier on the entrance which will be camera controlled as it recognizes a correctly sized vehicle nears the Loop access. Health and safety first, never mind about the law suits from people falling into the access holes.
I wanted to share a concept for continuous tunneling. I'm trying to describe my thoughts on a novel process of "continuous helical tunnel boring" I think this kind of concept could speed the construction of a 3dimensional tunnel system that Elon Musk described exponentially. If there is anyone you could think of to share this idea with I would appreciate that. . Working from the premises that it is better to continuously "pour" the structural concrete tunnel walls rather than pausing the tunneling process to lay precast sections of wall. The area of operations we are then focusing on is the area directly behind the boring machine face and within the tunnel shield wall where we will have to transport materials for forming our tunnel wall from without the tunnel dig to the area of operations. These materials being a role of sandwiched basalt fiber fabric pre impregnated with high strength Portland cement, configured into a sleeve that when injected with wet concrete will create a continuous form laid in a spiral or helical manor along the tunnel wall and forming a negative worm gear. These roles can be transported to the area of operations by autonomous electric vehicle conveyance. The roles being of a fixed length must be connected end to end by a process of stitching by which the two ends are laid open and sown together as the material is being fed to the work surface. To do this without interrupting the whole process slack has to be fed towards the wall end in an inch worm fashion and then taken up again until the next seam is necessary. These rolls of basalt fiber fabric have a structural cross threading in a manner in which when filled with concrete they form a roughly T shaped extrusion creating both a structural concrete form and the inner teeth of the negative worm gear. These pre impregnated basalt fabric roles which both give structural form and act as structural forms for the wet concrete mix are key to continuously forming the walls of the tunnel. Two other main elements in this process are water and wet concrete mix both separately conveyed to the area of operations through high pressure hoses. It's important to note that ideally a concrete batching plant be located at the entrance to the tunnel and raw materials stockpiled so as to avoid delays in pouring that come from concrete mixing trucks being ironically stuck in traffic that the boring company is attempting to alleviate. Also that ideally spoil material from the tunnel would be mixed with this concrete and reconstituted as the walls of the tunnel. Raw water is needed to activate the impregnated basalt fabric and applying it is a tricky problem. I'm going to try to use an analogy to describe this process and the process of injecting the wet concrete into the fabric sleeve. We should all by now as I write this in the beginning of 2021 be familiar with the image of an intubation tube being inserted down the esophagus of a patient. In this case the intubation tube is the nozzle end of the concrete hose which is inserted in the fabric sleeve which is the esophagus of our patient. The nozzle is a two pant system with an inner hose reaching farther into the sleeve and an outer jacket even applies water to the inside of the fabric sleeve. Directionality of this tunnel wall system is achieved by the flexible nature of the fabric sleeved poured concrete rather than the traditional precast concrete block systems used today. The means of conveyance of the tunnel boring machine is achieved by an articulated tunnel shield which locks into the worm gear of the tunnel, screwing itself along with a multitude of industrial inhud electric drive wheels. Theses drive wheels are relatively low speed compared to electric car motors but harness the high torque and flexible geometry of electric drive systems. Working on this idea. The current limiting factor to tunnel construction is the placing of precast concrete tunnel segments. The above concept is an attempt to break from that system.
I can see a tram in these tunnels. It would be like a mini-subway, and it could be integrated to the main subway lines. I can also see supply lines for local businesses in cities.
@@johnuferbach9166 Several local businesses are close to each other. But this is something for city governments. They are the ones that may want to remove trucks from their streets.
@@joaodecarvalho7012 now that you say it.. in a city close by they did that in combination with an underground parking lot that also allows trucks to access some buildings underground
@@johnuferbach9166 The underground has great potential for cities, and is still little explored. I would send all the cars to there, and only leave pedestrians and bicycles on the surface.
Boring company is precursor of Hyperloop. People can’t imagine stepping out of there bubbles (cars) and travel in pods with group of “others” especially after this pandemic
How is it a good idea? It's just "cool" but way less efficient and overall worse than just trains. Because making a tunnel is just another lane. And we all know how that doesn't work well
If SPACEX can build rockets for 10% of the usual cost. The Boring company should be boring tunnels for people (subway) instead of tunnel for cars. What do you think about this Elon ?
there are many channels giving almost continuous information about Space X and Telsa, but hardly anyone giving us anything about this look forward to more information
Also with this new design they can have an underground metro that goes multiple levels and can also send independent carts rather than a whole train so in turn it can send multiple carts to different locations from one location so every stop could be a like a bus station to anywhere at all times.
Imagine Tesla vans or minibuses, with like 9 or more seats each, controlled by a central algorithm to always carry as many passengers as reasonably possible, maximizing transport efficiency, with every single passenger having a short and efficient route to their destination, spending as little time as possible in transit.
As a professional working in the transportation industry, I personally do not believe that the boring company will have a significant impact on our system - although I do believe that the freight option is the *only* viable option for them. Keep in mind as well, freight routes do not necessarily have to travel for the full length between the two cities - perhaps a tunnel could be made to more quickly travel from the Port of LA to outside of the more densely packed LA region, then transitioning to standard freight trucks. Food for thought
I've never herd this view point explained very well.
Wouldn't boring company's effect just be a matter of how many tunnels they end up making?
I can imagine a point which most urban highways and freeways are underground.
That tunnel already exists. Called the Alameda Corridor. Built in the late 90's, it runs from Long Beach to the rail yards in East LA. It transports shipping containers by rail.
All the things Elon talks about are failed projects for the last 100 years and people go crazy about it.
If the tunnels and vehicles can't fit standard containers, forget serving ports. At least they saw that.
But once you're transporting containers you have to be more efficient than doublestacked rail.
Small tunnel systems have been used and thrived in the past. They also eventually shut down. If TBC finds a niche it will rise and fall for the same reasons.
Look up the Chicago freight tunnels and MailRail London.
TBC doesn't have a relevant vehicle or routing software for passengers or cargo.
@@edwardmeer95 "All the things Elon talks about are failed projects"
Oh yes, creating a company that launched more mass to orbit last year than every other space entity combined is practically the definition of "failed projects"... Good grief...
You say there is no doubt. Actually, there is a great deal of doubt about this system. It's simply a degraded subway. It's quite a disappointment.
Subways take long to complete and cost whole lot. And whole idea of subway to me is questionable. Why are we spending billions to put people under ground? Because trucks and cars occupied our land, so we all better go underground? IMHO this makes no sense. In cities we should put freight and cars underground. And move massive transit systems to ground level or over ground in form of trams, buses, and light rail systems on pillars. If we only sending freight and cars down there then suddenly there is no need to have massive spaces excavated for our comfort.
It is perfect for Las vegas, dumb for literally any other city in the world.
@@sk-sm9sh are you joking or really not in touch with reality at all?
@@willy4170 I have been on many ground, overground as well as underground transit systems as passanger arouns the world. Overground and ground are way superior to traveling person than the underground and it is cheaper to build too.
Promised 150mph, delivered 35mph. Promised $10 million per mile, delivered $55 million for a little over a kilometer. Also a standard shipping container has a cross section with a diagonal almost exactly the same as a TBC 12 foot tunnel. It won’t fit.
That may be true, but you would also have to consider that this is the first tunnel. That means they can get more efficient drilling operations, to a potential lower price. The tunnel size can be scaled up to accommodate the containers, and must be done if you want to have corners and more so if it is the long version of the containers. Speed... Can potentially be improved with time. That being said, I do see your point, but did he specifically promise that this prototype tunnel would have the specified speed?
@@naerbo19 the problem is that most of the promised speed increase is predicated on small tunnels. They make the tunnels bigger and they lose their advantage (assuming it really exists ).
And then what did we learn from this prototype. It’s just a road tunnel and road tunnels have existed for almost as long as there have been cars. Shouldn’t the prototype demonstrate some advance in technology?
@@jeremypnet True, but it won't impact me before he has a tried and proven product so I will await further development of product and marketing.
Budapest metro M1 line is the first electric line build in Europe. It was build in XVIII or XIX (I don't remember) century and it was dug much faster than elon's savage pipe. And they had to disassemble and reassemble the road. If Elon magic takes more time to dig a tunel than XIX century Hungary people really should rethink who they should support.
And to compare this to something more modern, tunel under la'mange was dug faster than Vegas loop. And it has 3 lines compared that to Elon savage pipe.
@@PineappleDealer37 It sounds like you'd enjoy the content Adam Something makes, if you don't know him already I suggest you check him out. I think he brought up a similar point on comparing the M1 to the gamer tunnel
These are to most expensive LED strips in a concrete pipe i have ever seen.
The Vegas Loop cost $55m for 0.8 miles. That's considerably more than the lie Musk was telling. It also has a max capacity of 1200 passengers per hour, nowhere near the numbers claimed. And all while abandoning any of the safety features that regular tunnels have.
Musk is a con man. nothing more, nothing less. This video appears to take his con at face value. As Las Vegas is finding out to its cost - that's generally a bad idea.
I think a major concern with this is the lack of SOS points etc. It’s fine for containers but cars can fail. Not sure you want an Li fire with no escape hatch.
And the 55 million is what they charged for a FIXED COST contract (that went up anyways).
The only way to know the true costs would be if The Boring Company opened their accounting books for scrutiny.
There are fixed costs that don't change, just because he promises X amount of dollars per mile doesn't mean a mile long tunnel costs X there are other costs involved that don't change with tunnel length.
@@sebastianflynn1746 Right, the largest of which is the Easement in an urban area. And yet, Boring disingenuously uses a figure for New York with exorbitant Easement costs when comparing their "cost" to the cost of actual tunnels with actual functionality.
@@dairallan easement costs are purely US thing, if you look at the rest of the world tunnels still cost at the very least 4x what the boring company managed. New York is an extreme example and easement costs are taken into account for the cost per mile (1.5-2.5 billion usd) the rest of the world even in places like India with very cheap labour costs per mile are 100 million per mile at the low end.
The problem with this loop is that it cannot handle a high volume of vehicles at the same time.
Las Vegas is not a metropolis, so it is essentially irrelevant.
By the way, in case you haven’t heard, tunnels have around for centuries.
Ya but previous methods of constructing tunnels have been around a billion a mile. The boring company has got it to a 10 million a mile. Interesting enough above ground highways expansions are around 100 million a mile.
@@Skinnymarks that’s only in New York for all the land, subway stations and infrastructure. The boring company has not actually brought the cost down of actually tunneling.
@@Skinnymarks also...their tunnels are only 12ft in diameter....
@@joeyhamilton6854
Sorry I couldn't make any sense of what you just said. The thought is too fragmented.
What about new York? And why do you think the cost of the boring tunnels aren't cheaper, compaired to what?
Previous methods used giant boring machines that ran on desil. That in itself drove up the costs of digging a tunnel.
You would be right if you were talking about surface roads. Highway expansions in large cities dose indeed cost signifigantly more than constructing a rural road.
I'm not sure what youre trying to get at.
@@kylen6430 your point?
5:08 Model: "Boss, for this stock footage, do you want me to type like a normal person or like an idiot?" Photographer: "Idiot's fine. No need to strain yourself."
I was like : "oh just a content creator with most likely like 40k subs"
Sub count : 600
me : wHAT
One day maybe haha, but thank you!
same here
@@OBFYT Glad that you got 8k in a month. The quality of the video looks like the one from a channel with 100k+
now he is 11.6k
12.9k
As someone who works with telecom services i can tell you there are far more utility tunnels than those for traffic.
Sewer system is a form of utility tunnel that can cover a signification amount of km alongside underground river tunnels and some "secret" tunnells undisclosed for the public but can house shelter as well as main infrastructure lines.
Isn't it just automatic train with few extra steps? 🤔
And a whole lot more money
Yep. It's a silly idea. And boring machines are all over the place. Check out the Gotthard base tunnel.
@@maxblinkhorn Boring companies exist but the pricing they are claiming is so much cheaper than everything already out there its insane.
@@lostseeker88 I suggest their business model is faulty, then. He who lives by hype, dies by it, taking the money of mugs with them.
@@lostseeker88 which makes sense since Boring tunnels are smaller, I wouldn't brag about painting your house at half the price if I only paint half of it
More scepticism is in order.
What I am a little skeptical of about this vid is this: It takes 1-3 days to ship something in California 120 miles? That sounds... really odd. Excuse me, but where did that number come from? Little as 40 miles per day on average? Something is very wrong here! If what is taking most of the time is handling at the port and final location, then The Boring Companies tech in tunneling isn't going to necessarily help that all that much.
We dont know if the freight loop can send 1 container per minute, maybe the number is two or it could be 0.3. It is probably mostly the infrastructure at each end of the tunnel that really sets that limit.
The 10 million per mile figure is interesting, but what does competion cost? Do the tunnels have comparable width? And does the 10 million figure count for all soil types and depths? Probably not, right?
We need far more data.
Holy Cow, this video is so gooood! How are you not a big youtuber! Love the video! Keep it up!
Well if more people like you find my videos I hopefully will become big one day. And I am glad you liked it!
His account is 4 months old, thats why.
@@simonquvang6073 :| ok
Agreed!
If you've invested in this, get out while you can. This just won't work!
@eblman because faith is not a strong material to build with. Maybe in 10 years time, after proper trials, failures, accidents and crashes, something like may work but it's just a gimmick right now.
@@maxblinkhorn Man Don't Underestimate TheBORINGCompany As if they Don't Even Know Something like that As u know They Are also Part Of one of the Elon musk company That has Its Own Scientist Through his Other companies as well Around 5 or more companies that he owned one of those who reached the Light is Tesla And SpaceX as for the rest they still developing the same goes for TheBoringCompany And they have their research right and helpers through other companies and also if elon musk Successfully landed in the mars with starship Theirs a higher chance of getting stronger materials in it That hasn't existed in Earth That can be easily mined but very very hard and it can only be owned by one company that is elon musk And even if elon musk were to disappear This company will still work together to achieve something On colonization and deep space exploration with All of their projects and ideas combined throughout each company can create a massive achievement
@@FEURVERM what are you like? Carry on dreaming.
@@FEURVERM The words "believer", "acolyte", and "flunky" spring to mind when I read your krazy komment. Of course, when the asteroid predicted by the holy man doesn't arrive, he will find himself feeling very stupid and even quite dead.
You will be let down. And people will die for Musk's bonkersness.
@@maxblinkhorn It isn't faith if it is already being implemented. Then it is more a matter of expecting improvement, just like we expect pc's, smartphones, EV's, ... to improve.
Deeply sceptical about the earning potential of TBC. The over reliance on cars is already a severe problem for most countries and this is just another capacity increase.
Capacity increase always leads to more traffic, instead capacity should go down and public spending should go to public transport.
Sounds like some just reinvented underground freight trains...
@eblman No speed limits? Lol.
You basically have to build a train track and use train wagons for the containers, so basically a train running under ground.
And why do you think cargo trains can't travel fast? Because containers are very heavy and therefore needs incredible sturdy and straight tracks.
So the cost of building the track itself, is at least as pricey, as building above ground.
Also, you forget that you still need to pay land owners in the US, for building below their property.
@eblman going directly to a building will be almost impossible. You need a transfer method. Think about having to slow down and changing elevations. Also, no security check on a tunnel that I can't get out of? Sounds like a security nightmare :)
The Boring Company is developing boring machines. This, above all else, is what their focus is. The Las Vegas tunnel? It's a test of prototype boring machines that happens to have paid Tesla's expenses while they try out new engineering concepts.
There's a lot of R&D ahead. But here's the thing we need to understand about the Boring Company: they will be doing things slowly for a few years while they develop new prototype boring machines, but when - if - they settle on a design, they are going to mass-produce them.
Stop and think about that for a moment.
Nobody in the world mass-produces boring machines. Production runs in the dozens is enough to make a boring machine producer an industry leader. Most aren't assembled in a factory at all; they're assembled at the job site. The Boring Company intends to produce *thousands* of boring machines annually. In a factory.
And then use them.
*This* is the vision that sets the Boring Company apart. The rest of the tunnel boring industry is exactly where automobiles were before Henry Ford: hand-made machines made in tiny batches.
The Boring Company is not merely digging holes in the ground. They're digging holes in our civilization's status quo, and when they're done, we will be a 3-D civilization.
Make no mistake, this is a hard task. Engineers will have to design tunneling machines that are *not* merely adequate for a specific job, *not* merely faster, *not* merely cheaper, *not* merely easier to operate. They must design tunneling machines that are intended from the start to be mass-produced in a factory. As Elon has said, making the prototype is easy. Mass-producing it is a hundred, maybe a thousand times harder. This is a high hurdle to clear, and the company must clear it while earning enough income not to go bankrupt. There is risk here, as there always is with Elon's companies in the early years. They might fail. Red ink can doom a company, even if it has good ideas.
But if they succeed?
The tunneling industry today is a gnat compared to the elephant it will become. And the Boring Company will stride over (or rather, under) the Earth like a colossus. Our imaginations today are insufficient to grasp the potential valuation of such a company. Looking at the size of today's industry cannot give us even a clue.
Nice work Sir. One difficult challenge I've not heard much about-- making concrete tunnel support rings out of spoils that are frequently if not constantly changing dramatically in composition, they will need to be modifying the recipe on the fly I'm assuming.
@@Mrbfgray Yeah. From an engineering standpoint, it's heavy lifting. But it can be broken down into steps. Figure out what's there, consult your recipe book, make samples, test, refine. It'll be a *big* recipe book, and they have to figure out how to make those steps go fast, too.
Hard! But if they can pull it off? It'll be a game-changer.
Just commenting to please the algorythm gods, keep up the good content
Feeds cars one per minute, shows cars in adjacent lanes with 3 seconds separation. Riiiight...
You understand that velocity can change, right?
@@wintersknight9411 by not that much. Even if they were dropped in it would be slower feed than a normal tunnel
@@DinoAlberini even still, thats just a demo video. It could just be an editing oversight.
@@wintersknight9411 it’s pitching the project with unrealistic specs.
@@DinoAlberini so says you
this video aged badly. Looking how poorly all thing turned up
Which one? The Las Vegas tunnel works great.
I thought u had 13 million subs wth ur so underrated
The loop is a ridiculous idea. Move a fraction of what a subway train would and you’re now in the centre of town with your car, back in traffic and looking for parking. Tunnels barely large enough for one vehicle may be cheaper but they’re a bad idea for practicality and safety. Freight might be the only semi-workable use case.
I agree that taking your car into the city through a tunnel, then parking it all day only to take it back out through the tunnel makes zero sense. I think the Loops we see built will all be closed to outside vehicles.
What happens when a car breaks down in the middle of a tunnel and can not get out?
I think the have a solution but i am not sure. Look it up.
Had this happen once when my transition just decided to stop existing as a transition.
Had a cop shove me out of the road. Just stick the damn car in neutral and shove it out with another car. Not a big deal.
They will have access tunnels
and what happens if one catches fire?
@@Skinnymarks Really? So what if the next exit it 5 miles out? What if the car had cached on fire? How do you get a firetruck into the tube and to the fire, with hundreds of cars behind the burning car?
And how do you save those people from dying from smoke inhalation?
Your gonna get big quick, well done in advance, great video!
Thank you! :)
@@OBFYT Honestly my friend, fabulous work. On all of your videos. Also Elon is going to build tunnels on Mars!
Hmm, this is honestly pretty redundant and expensive idea. if you city is so dense you need cars underground, first thing you should be thinking about is public transit. One bus can take potentially ~50 cars off the road, trains and metro can take hundreds. I mean why would you make expensive tunnel for individual cars when you could use it for metro? And you don't need tunnels anyways if density is not enough so anywhere where one could use one of these Tesla tunnels, metro would make more sense.
City trains from city center to area round city, metro for dense core areas and active bus network can handle pretty much any city's transit needs to unburden roads. After that it's just proper city planning.
Actually smarter use for these tunnels would be some type of mini metro that branches out from actual metro stations. You could basically cover whole city easily in web to get anywhere. You could take even buses off the streets inside the city.
The cost of traditional subways is untenable for cities like Los Angeles. Feeder systems connecting existing roads in spread out cities is critical. Los Angeles is 50 miles wide. Right now, Elon is offering to make a tunnel from Pasadena to Ontario airport for less than extending an existing rail line. His costs are far less per mile than traditional transport agencies.
asdf The Tesla bus tunnel is being planned between Pasadena and Ontario Airport right now. That will be very feasible. It’s supposed to travel at 120 MPH and will be point to point. It’s not the car carrier idea that you’ve seen on videos. I think that these ideas do need development, however, the shear cost and length of time comparisons between Boring and legacy public projects are so far apart that we are at the point where there will never be more legacy styled public projects. They are simply unaffordable doing it the old way. Time will tell.
@@jamesdellaneve9005 not really, the the boring company has only reduced cost by drilling smaller tunnels. The actual drilling is not what makes subways so expensive it’s the stations and getting people down to the trains. You would need a couple thousand elevators all over LA to move a comparable amount of people.
Look at all of the cities where centralized public transit works. They are all (or nearly all) cities that were initially mapped out during the horse and buggy days. In other words, very small areas. Now, look for this in cities that are 50 miles wide. In order for it to connect everything like in a very dense area, you need 50 times more track/tunnels which means less density and much lower utilization. These systems don’t exist because they can’t make economic sense. I enjoy using these systems in the urban dense cities, but just saying “Why doesn’t X have this”? Is an over simplification. And it’s an apple oranges kind of thing.
joey hamilton If the boring company decided to make tunnels the same size as the train tunnels, they would still be able to dig them for a tenth of the cost. People have no idea as to the cost for the public sector in the US to do these projects. We are drastically higher than any other country (corruption). A decade ago, we approved a high speed train from LA to San Fran. They’ve spent over a billion at this point and have less than a mile of track laid. My friend is a structural engineer for public works projects. They are planning to build a huge highway interchange. The planning phase is over a decade and will spend nearly a billion before approval and construction. One last thing, a highway exit ramp here in California must undergo a 7 year environmental impact study. It was funny when Elon just started digging under LA. None of the bureaucrats knew what to do. He didn’t ask permission a;d they were all looking at each saying, “I don’t want to stop him do you?”
The hypothetical delivery to “San Diego” only goes to a terminal in the region and would still need to be taken on a tractor-trailer to the final destination. The tunnel may take 60 containers per hour but how will the terminal dispatch or receive that many? How much land or excavation. is needed for that?
Tunnelling is easy. It’s the stations, vehicles and control systems that are hard.
Let’s see how they go at the LVCC with their capacity with four seat cars. A lot of hot air will be let out. It is still a viable system IMHO, but it is a niche system. It’s basically a subterranean Personal Rapid Transit system. It will be the first PRT in the US since Morgantown PRT opened in 1975. That was going to be the future of transit too.
Also your avarage train is and order of magnitude cheaper to buid (you don't need to tunnel trougth things) and still can be extremly fast and move way more than just 60 containers
@@Taka.1011 If the Boring Co figures are correct it might be closer than that. The tunneling saves on all the grade expensive separations for a railway. (FWIW I remain sceptical about the price per tunnel mile.)
However the train line from Long Beach to San Diego already exists. There is no construction cost but there could be upgrades to improve average speed and minimise delays.
@@tjejojyj you are 100% correct. I was assuming that their price/mile was "extremly" generous.
@@Taka.1011 Considering that it completely ignores operating costs of whatever transport system is used within in the tunnels and the way long distance tunnel building can vary wildly due to geology, especially in a place like California, you are probably right about that.
Having seen cartoons of Musk's tunneling machine, it functions exactly the same as current TBMs. A giant, rotating rock crushing face (it will still need to stop to replace the cutting wheels when the wear) a conveyor to remove the tailngs, a second conveyor to bring in the pre=cast segments to line the tunnel.
Musk says that the TBM will have 3x the power, that it going to make bricks out of rock (bricks need a binder such as clay) TBMs don't work very well in soft materials such as clay, sand and dirt (look up what happened when a TBM got stuck underground in Seattle )
TBM hit a steel pipe in Seattle.
@@charlesbartlett2569 It doesn't matter how the ground gets wet. TBMs will have a problem in wet terain. For every tunnel the ground needs to be measured and if there is to much liquid in the ground you will have to blast your way trough it.
@@Benetekt I live and work in Florida where the water table is a few feet below the ground. I have worked on several tunneling projects. There is no problem tunneling through water. You have to use a clay slurry to maintain pressure at the cutting head so you don’t over excavate and remove too much soil material. Earth pressure balance machine (EPBM) is the type of tunneling machine for these soil conditions.
Good video, just a little suggestion: To me it felt like the video ended very abruptly, maybe a letting the music play for longer and fading out more slowly would help. Or a short "thank you for watching bla bla". Keep it up!
Thank you! I am glad you liked it. But I do abrupt endings for a reason. Audience Retention. The longer I drag out the ending of my videos, the more people will leave the video prematurely which will creates a lower audience retention. Which will make the algorithm think that it isn't as good of a video and then it won't recommend it as much.
The wheel guards are no longer a thing btw. He stopped that a year or 2 ago
150 mph?! Lol... To whomever didn't yet see a review about the last Vegas loop, it's speed is about 35 mph max, with human drivers...
Huh? When did Musk say that that tunnel would be operated at 150mph? Are you suffering from overactive imagination syndrome?
@@schmetterling4477 Lol dude before you start denying anything, it's not just a quote, it's a literal CGI video that was produced and featured on national TV. The original video + commentary of Hyperloop, look it up and also look for the frontal talk Elon gave after this video hit nation wide TV... He says even greater than 150 mph, but even the smaller "pod" for 10 people don't even fit in the tunnel they dug.... Literally nothing he said came true, not even the self driving part, even though it's a tiny tunnel
Vegas loop*
@@johnniesalomon1942 they are trying to get to self driving but yeah its bad
with metro systems they are cheaper to maintain then cars, they carry a lot more people and new signalling systems are coming so they will not be delayed.
Yeah they are not doomed to be delayed. Have you seen japan’s metro systems? They’re almost never late. We should be investing more in better metro technology, not this mess.
its crazy that the dude who sells electric cars wants to produce an alternative to trains that uses electric cars
@@angussmith8915 that’d be great and cool if he could actually get it to be equivalent to trains. This abomination can barely carry over 1200 people per hour.
If he could get this to work with public transit on a larger scale I’m all for it.
TBM companies work in an extremely competitive market with constant innovation to handle constantly changing ground conditions. Speed is everything when it comes to cost. It’s hard to believe that one company can outperform the others by such a wide margin to get the cost down to $10 million per mile. It’s even harder to believe when they are all using the same TBM platform for tunneling. Eliminating expensive access shafts at entrances and exits saves a lot of money but all companies could do it.
I like how many people are tossing shit at this idea, just like the way "space enthusiasts" did back when he first announced SpaceX
we'll see... we'll see
4:08 "dig deeper into" nice
Musk is the most brilliant person on earth. I mean he has apparently outsmarted every engineer who has ever worked on the problem of how to make tunnels economically viable.
Lmao wtf are you talking about 😂
Sarcasm. Tunnels aren’t new and are the most expensive option for getting between two points.
@@tuckere5380lol I couldn't tell it was sarcasm, you sound exactly like his fanboys who somehow believe his stupid loop will revolutionise transportation
@@tuckere5380
Not true in many urban environments, these days.
Yes, construction costs are way up there but acquisition costs are close to zero. And in major cities acquiring the land can be a major part of the cost.
@@q.e.d.9112 Musk claims to have invented a “new” way of building tunnels that is less expensive. The acquisition costs are the same for the city/county, etc. no matter who builds it. Again, tunnels are not new. They are very complex and expensive. For TBC there are no robo taxis, let alone robo-busses. Working Hyperloop technology is probably 50-100 years away. TBC digital videos are not even state of the art. Musk is a confidence man and dreamer at best. You can’t really even give him credit for Tesla cars, as he did not create or invent them.
This has most revolutionary potential of all his companies. Totally slashing cost of tunnels are so big.
However, there is a sixth use of their tunnels not on the list Elon has vaguely mentioned as a reply on a question. Construction on other worlds. Construction on moon, mars and asteroid mining. You get shelter with much lower radiation. And the boring bricks all the sudden will be high value building material as its manufactured outside earth and doesn’t have to pay freight cost. Asteroid mining is believed to be a multi billion dollar industry within a few decades.
Construction on other planets will never happen. Ever. And neither will asteroid mining.
@@colonelsanders4006
I’m sorry man, this have been a tough year for everyone. Try to keep the spirit up for a while, in half a year we might start to see some light in the end of the tunnel. Meanwhile, there is still a lot to live for. Like the creativeness people are doing to survive. It’s inspirational if you are able to see it. Godspeed mr sanders.
@@macjonte don't be sorry good sir, I was merely implying that planets as we see them represented in science simply do not exist.
@@colonelsanders4006
I didn’t bite. ;)
@@macjonte no, but your mother did
Nice video, youtube actually recommended something good.
Here's an even better recommendation: "The VEGAS LOOP: Just As Stupid As You Think" by Adam Something
ruclips.net/video/QvK2i9Jxy5c/видео.html&ab_channel=AdamSomething
It's just a tunnel, nothing amazing or new about it, any company that builds tunnels can do what the boring company does.
I thought this was about an uninteresting company at first glance
It was an amazing video and I really enjoyed it.
However I have one thing that will help improve your video, it would be nice if you had a outro. Becous now the video ended abrupt.
Just say som things like tanks for watching, have a niche day, don't forget to subscribe and like (people are more likely to subscribe if the video was great than if the haven't seen anything). I think that would make a difference on the overall experience
Edit: I just wanted to add that the actual entertaining part of the video was perfect in my opinion
You have taken the time to help me in the nicest way possible, by giving me actual constructive criticism. So first of all, thank you for that!
But there is actually a reason for ending my videos "abruptly", and that has to do with Audience retention. Which is something that is very important to creators as RUclips will recommend videos to more people the higher the Audience retention a certain video has. So ending the video "abruptly" after I have made my final point is the best way to keep the retention high at the end of the video. Because usually, a RUclipsr like myself would experience a massive drop in retention towards the end of the video which is caused by viewers leaving. Why are they leaving? Well, because in their minds the video is over and you are basically keeping them there to say thank you and goodbye, which normally would be a great thing. But on RUclips, time is everything. And unfortunately, no one want's to stick around when they know the video is over.
And again thank you for taking the time to help me make better videos I truly appreciate it. And I hope I clarified it!
@@OBFYT oh, I totally forgot about that.
I don't blame you haha as it isn't something many people have thought about. I have just spent a long time trying to figure out the algorithm.
If ants can live under tunnel, why can't we when it's proven under ground is safer during earthquakes.
Alright you convinced me. Subbed. I watch a lot of Wendover, City Beautiful, Tom Scott type channels and the algorithm keeps recommending you so I bet you're going to take off pretty soon. I'd be interested in more videos about Denmark and Scandinavia btw- I'm sure you'll have some good insights.
The Boring Company has ZERO unique products.
All those different tunnels can be built by any company.
Any company can but the exact same TBMs they used in Vegas or a TBM of any size and start producing tunnels.
Ignorant videos and commentary such as this that have no idea that TBMs are state of the art just add to the ignorance of the general public.
Thunerf00t
This did not age well...
All the utility lines that could be in that tunnel are just along the streets in Germany, one or two meters under the sidewalk. But each is separate, with some sand in between. (In dense areas, there are small utility tunnels for power and communication, with many branches) You need documentation of the layout, but every utility needs to know about its own plan only. You want to fix a water pipe? Just take care not to cut the phone lines. It is flexible: The layout is independent, there can be branches in one, but not the other line. And to connect a new home, you just need a small backhoe and splice in your water/electricity/gas/fiber lines (Communication is combined into one flexible pipe, where you can just add more cables by blowing them in with some pressured air. If there is glass fiber, I assume there are some extra dark fibers also.) With a tunnel, the flexibility just does not work. (Power and phone lines above the ground are even more flexible in the layout) So I would not expect it is helpful for utilities in that sense. But there are certainly specialty applications for these tunnels, it is just the tunnel for "other uses". Like the particle accelerator in your back yard, and under many neighbors' homes, for example.
But why choose the Boring TBM for these things, they provide no advantage compated to TBMs of other companys, the cost saving Elon presented compare a fully build subway tunnel with traintracks and everything else, compared to a tube, that is put into the ground. If you correct his presentation and compare his tube in the ground with tubes manufactured with other TBMs, you would notice, that his tunnel costs exactly as much as any other tunnel. And it totaly makes sense, because is you just build a "traditional" TBM and put it into a fancy housing, you still have a traditional TBM.
Las Vegas Musk Tunnel distance covered in less than 3 minutes in my country by free transportation LuxTram :
@N-yo
No need to wait for a car, no need to climb stair and faster overall and transporting more people per hour. Facts.
Luxtram > Musk Boring Tunnels
European Tunnels > Musk Boring Tunnels
Bullet Trains > Hype(r)loop
in terms of peoples per hour transported, cost efficiency and security.
@Md4E
and again in my country with the funiculaire how in 2 minutes to avoid 7 miles 40 minutes traffic jams in Luxembourg City to access fast trains by bypassing the streets completely through the mountain.
The Musk's Las Vegas boring tunnel system is laughable in comparison.
Your estimates seem too optimistic... But you're right about its underrated potential.
this society - built around and based on individual transportation is a Huge mistake
honestly , I can’t , it’s filled with bs that is obvious to me . It requires too much work and maintenance
Society is locked into individual transportation and his ideas may be of some value .
But individual transportation will always be a huge mistake ; and nothing will fix or overcome that .
Why should an underground freight train be faster than a normal train?
It isn't necessarily faster I'd guess, but adding extra capacity to an above ground rail network isn't easy or cheap, so once a line runs at capacity everything more will cause delays. The idea of the boring tunnel is more that you can just create more capacity. There probably are other reasons too probaby though (like geography, interconnections on the rail line, ...)
I see the potential where real estate is expensive but can't see any benefits elsewhere.
You still have to buy easements! Avocado growers will make big bucks! That land is priced somewhere around $20 to $50 million per section.
LVCC was really great marketing campaign. Did not't deliver what was promised, did not delivered what was required in the project, didn't even meet basic safety regulations and is totally useless. LOL
Cool, haven’t heard much on the cargo transport potential yet
I have. Tho didn't know they might need a different kiff other than the tesla semi.
When you truly think deep about the implications of Boring company tunnels used to move around water, you realize that this is not a tunneling and mass transit infrastructure company, but a Terraforming Company with the potential to reverse climate change by delivering the fuel (water) to the living machines needed for carbon removal (plants) and prevent/protect against flooding in the process. These are all the learnings and projects necessary to do, not only to improve and preserve life/civilization here on earth, but to colonize mars
So...the boring company just reinvented the.....road tunnel?
Very informative....u will soon be a big you tuber.... congratulations 🎇🎁
Soooo musk is selling utility tunnels, freight routes, and everything-but-a-subway transport system for the few (10000people/hour is nothing compared to good subway lines that can go up to 1million/day), services that are supposed to be provided by the public sector, because it's of a general interest? I don't understand why people accept taxes being spent on roads, and private expensive toll roads being a bad thing, but private tunnels are good? It's more a comment on the failure of the public sector to respond to the need of citizens than it is inventiveness of the private sector. And seriously, why can't the tunnels be bigger? You better not transport flammable goods in tose containers. Aren't there bigger tbms out there? He is literally reproducing the private railway model of the 19th century, but underground. And we know how that ended, harmonization and regulation were necessary for safety.
It might be a good idea in the US with its difficulty to implement railway travel, but I'm weary of the private aspect of it. I hope he'll be a contractor for public projects, nothing more.
The thing that nobody talks about is the Nucular boring machine that the U.S.
government has had for years.
What's with that lift system and how long does that take to merge a car from this boring tunnel to whatever highway that car would end up on on the other side?
I d be careful with this one, in most countries infrastructure is a government domain, and yes this will ultimately be Boring companies largest costumers, but as far as I know the boring company will not own these tunnels they will just build them.
Another use for the tunnels could be for diverting a water source in bad flooding situations.
Why do people say the boring company 'can' do these things? At best they 'are going to', but realistically its 'they claim they will'. Its exciting to see if they could do it but so far they have achieved none of these things
The algorithm has shined upon you this day.
Great video, well produced and well scripted. Subscribed.
All hail the algorithm.
If it can fit a standard (20ft?) shipping container, then why do they even bother with the loop? I mean, cars fit just fine in standard shipping containers (it kinda is how they are shipped), and depending on model and how daring you are you can fit one or two cars in each container (might require an angle), or even up to four cars for some models.
Now think about that, now rather than one car per "routing unit" you will have 1-4 cars per "routing unit", this is a massive gain alone. But doing it with containers also mean you can really cut back on safeties (you just need to verify the box), you will get a technology-agnostic transportation (petrol car? just shut off the motor and have a forced convection until the air is clean enough before you ship it through the tube), will allow for upgrades (want a partially evacuated maglev in there? just switch the system to air tight containers and put a maglev bogie/truck on it), will allow much tighter feeding to the routing (have the slow parts (the "park on transport stuff") at an entry point, and the ship the containers off as soon as they are cleared), and it will allow for much tighter routing (people in a container don't scream if the container ahead is only a feet/30cm ahead, but in a car that can see outside many will panic).
It also would allow you to chain the containers together and run then in a string, let's call that a "train"...
(Basically with the current "loop" your routing and feed rates will basically top out of that of a normal road tunnel, but in reality will be a lot closer to a road tunnel with a traffic signals. A "freight loop" could get the routing and feed levels on the level of a small aircraft airport. And a "frieght loop train" could get it to the point of a low capacity train system. The "freight systems" would allow for massive upgrades and be goods angostic (allow for mixed traffic))
Basically - if you do it with shipping containers alone you basically just have re-invented a low-capacity train system (yes, a low capacity train system have a mindboggling capacity), but you would end up with a capacity a lot higher than the current set-up.
(I'd guess their issue is that if they would re-invent a low-capacity train it would make it obvious for people to compare it to trains rather than cars, and trains are ruthlessly effecient while cars are basically the antithesis of efficiency)
I don't think the idea is to keep the routing unit longterm, rather have the cars autonomously drive in the tunnels, meaning they just drive in, go on, drive out without any extra steps.
I don't think they'd ever let petrol cars in, even with a routing unit, this goes against Musks goal to electrify transport. Moreover by 2030 most new cars sold are likely to be electric, and by 2040 there probably won't be petrol cars sold anymore except for niche models. By 2050 finding a petrol car on the road is likely going to be very difficult. Therefor it is rather wastefull to try and include petrol cars in the boring tunnel concept.
semi evacuated maglev (or essentially hyperloop), would most likely get their own boring tunnels if hyperloopcompanies decide to work together with the Boring company. For now it doesn't seem like boring company is going to go into the hyperloop concept in any other way than as a tunneling partner, but we'll see I guess.
The idea also is that automated driving with (possibly) communicating cars can act as a train, just without the interlinking and therefor is much more flexible (adding, detracting "wagons"). Putting cars in a container or something similar seems like a lot more hassle for not really much gain comparatively. The advantage of the train is more the rails than anything else once automated driving is on point (which will be easier to get done in a closed off environment like the boring tunnels).
As for the panic, people will get used to it and they won't be allowed to take control of the car while in the tunnel, most likely they'll either just be checking something/waiting or on longer trips distracting themselves with videos, games, talking, music, ... People that are afraid of the close distance can even just keep their eyes closed or something similar. People can get used to a lot of things, if you put people from 100+ years ago in a car on the driveway they'd freak out (even if they know everything). Humans are rather good in adapting.
@@MDP1702 If they have the cars themselves go there they they are in effect limited to about 180-200kph and with horrible efficencies - having dedicated routing containers would allow for having proper rolling (or maglev) stock (and also to do mixed freight at "volume").
I'd still be in the workforce by 2050 and I know petrol cars still will be common for me - but I'm one of those that gets called upon for some grid issues (electrical cars suck when the grid is down for more than a few hours).
But also, having a setup for petrol cars would also allow for hydrogen cars, and as stated it would also allow for a modified atmosphere tunnel - so no need to have separate solutions for if you want to do boring or hyperloop.
Rails, being able to stack in height(!), controlled airflow (resistance), booms/shockwaves whenever a joining tunnel merges (or tunnel openings), strict service schedules (breakdown will be a fun issue otherwise). Cars are quite frankly horrible in terms of effeciency (even when alone).
(For the shockwaves alone - take a look at the generations of shinkansen, the "nose" are all about shockwave mitigation)
And yet we still have people afraid of flying... it will limit your market.
Basically doing a hyperloop with automobile carriages ("normal cars") will impose some rather drastic limits (well beyond what anyone who've never been near germany will have experienced, but even so...)
If you want to get "really out there" in what "shoving cars into containers" would allow for - imagine driving into a container, taking a nap, and waking up far away with a fully charged car (nothing that prevents you from doing catenaries to the containers), or if you also have a station near a lake (black sea, caspian sea, the great lakes) have it routed onto a ground effect vehicle. Basically the concept of a non-standardized unit imposes huge limitations.
@@Herr_U *If they have the cars themselves go there they they are in effect limited to about 180-200kph*
180-200kph is way more then on the highway, limited to doesn't fit this sentenced. Most trains are slower then that, only highspeed rail is better, and you don't want to use a high speed train that is bigger than these cars in a small tunnel, that wouldn't be doable. Honestly 180-200kph is actually very optimistic, for cars I expect more like 150-160kph and for freight more like 100-120 kpm at most. Any higher you essentially need to start looking at the hyperloop concept with a semi-vacuum.
*and with horrible efficencies*
And how would this be different with a routing container exactly? This will be less aerodynamic, thus have much more drag.
*having dedicated routing containers would allow for having proper rolling (or maglev) stock*
With other words you are talking about a hyperloop, not the boring tunnel concept anymore, these are two distinct concepts.
*I'd still be in the workforce by 2050 and I know petrol cars still will be common for me*
How do you know that? Why would it still be common for you?
*(electrical cars suck when the grid is down for more than a few hours).*
For this you most likely would have EV with much greater range, or indeed a petrol car, like I said petrol can possibly still be used in niche circumstances. But then you might have to take some extra petrol with you in jerry cans, since petrol station will likely have become very uncommon by then.
*But also, having a setup for petrol cars would also allow for hydrogen cars*
Hydrogen cars don't stand a chance: expensive, not much more range than many EV's, expensive hydrogen stations that are rather few in numbers, high hydrogen prices, terrible efficiency, ... Hydrogen in personel vehicles will only be a niche product, if it isn't scrapper completely. Ofcourse this is unless hydrogen cars suddenly make extreme jumps forward, which is rather unlikely.
*so no need to have separate solutions for if you want to do boring or hyperloop.*
They have completely different goals. Yes, hyperloop might work together with hyperloop companies, but boring company tunnels and the tesla system won't suddenly be changed to a hyperloop concept, just not going to happen.
*Rails, being able to stack in height(!), controlled airflow (resistance), booms/shockwaves whenever a joining tunnel merges (or tunnel openings), strict service schedules (breakdown will be a fun issue otherwise). Cars are quite frankly horrible in terms of effeciency (even when alone).
(For the shockwaves alone - take a look at the generations of shinkansen, the "nose" are all about shockwave mitigation)*
Again, this is more hyperloop, not the boring tunnel concept.
*Basically doing a hyperloop with automobile carriages ("normal cars") will impose some rather drastic limits*
This isn't even a discussion, the boring company doesn't do hyperloop, the using cars in boring company tunnels has nothing to do with hyperloop, that is a completely different issue/concept.
It seems you are mixing 2 different concepts that have nothing to do with eachother, other then that the boring company could make tunnels for both and do both: tunnels with cars for shorter trips, tunnels for hyperloop for long trips. Hyperloop needs tracks of at least 10-20 km just to get up to speed (depending on the acceleration and topspeed) and another similar distance to slow down. That means you need at least a track of 20-40km, probably a lot more, since you don't want to be constantly accelerating and decelerating. Hyperloop is great to connect cities, however it isn't usefull to connects smaller area's, like part of a city, city with suburbs, a track with stops/offramps 'quite often', .... In other words the boring company Tesla/EV tunnel is meant as something more like regular streets and highways, only with faster speeds and no real traffic, the hyperloop is meant as a replacement of high speed rail systems, to connect cities/area's of large distances.
The news about the Vegas tunnel being ridiculous should concern anyone dealing with this endeavor.
The name is soon going to change to Happy Fun Disco Taxi. Tourists welcome!
"Barely"
Fundamental problem with your assumptions is - not only Elon , but actually any tunnel boring company can make tunnels of such specifications for 10M$.
Boring tunnels up to 4-5m diameter is a common and cheap practice.
Elon mislead the public by comparing his tunnel to subway tunnels which....
A: are substantially larger (6-12m, and btw 6m tunnel is 2x more expensive than 4m tunnel, price increases exponentially with diameter)
B: are full of technology which makes 70% of the costs
The Boring company is a play on words. Boring tunnels underwater to segmented bases along the pacific/Atlantic rim could be a good or bad conspiracy. Potential for illegal immigration cross-Atlantic could be detrimental.
In your discussion of utility-purposed tunnels, you mention sewer pipes running through the tunnels. Sewer lines ideally follow downward-sloping topography so as to allow gravity to move the nasty stuff along in the general direction of the facility which "treats" the sewage. With a tunnel, though, topography can be ignored. You simply dig the tunnel so that it slopes downward by the required amount. When you get to the treatment plant the tunnel might be fairly deep below the surface. But it seems doable to create a large collection cavity below the treatment plant where sewage would accumulate, perhaps from several different tunnels serving different municipal regions. Submersible lift pumps would raise the effluent up to the surface where it would be treated. Note: the tunnel itself would be the pipe, it would not contain the pipe. This might require a more impermeable tunnel wall than would be the case for other uses. Conceptually, it seems to me, this construction technique would be radically less expensive than those currently in use. I'm not an engineer, so I may have overlooked something, but it seems to me that this would work.
Problem might be how to get the sewage into these tunnels, the deeper the tunnel, the deeper a linking system and thus more expensive. Also what if something happens, you can't easily reach the sewage tunnels and easily swap out parts.
Interesting idea, but a lot of things to consider.
yep i have been thinking about freight. automated trailer beds with third rail power, so no batteries. straight point to point tunnels from say san diego to houston, to hampton roads to NY. cross country cargo in hours. No weather delays, no trucker hours of service, etc.
@ no reason for them to take to the final destination. the tunnel operator would just provide the tunnel service. As pure automated tunnel container bed, it would not need much of a suspension, nor much else other than the electric motors, at two wheels, some kind of basic steering and a frame. maybe a foam aerodynamic nose on each end. Basically maintenance-free, no battery charging time, and cost a fraction of a full vehicle with batteries. Hell, steer with drive motor speed control, then you dont even need a steering system.
Well, there was a traffic jam in the loop. Bummer.
So many futuristic promises and no products.
Any indication how they make these tunnels so cheaply? Understand reusing the excavated material is planned to be used to form the lining, but will that be enough to make sure the tunnels are stable, especially in an earthquake prone area like California?
It seems to be mostly the diameter, tunneling speed, and the electric drivetrain for propulsion and drillplate.
Less time spent tunneling means less man-hours and the boring machine is freed up for more jobs sooner so you need less of them.
Smaller diameter means smaller tunneling machine.
Electric drivetrain needs less maintenance, less ventilation, and less fuel/power costs.
The usage of "waste" materials is apparently much less significant? Though still important.
It's mostly vaporware and hype. He is just using conventional drilling equipment. Nothing groundbreaking.
Elon Musk is the Donald Trump of technology.
What if you get a flat tire at 150 MPH?????
In that small túnel you get a fast death or a slow one from craching or from not being able to escape your now burning car... You also get to kill most people on the túnel from the gasses...
Damn....I had thought that I forgot to subscribe was about to then good thing I didn't. Hearing all the Praise of Elon & Boring was ridiculous & just incorrect.
Why would autonomous cars need rear view mirrors in a single track tunnel? How do you reach a car that is disabled with possibly injured passengers?
The point would be that 'regular' cars can drive in it, ie. people get there car into the tunnel to avoid above ground traffic, they still need to have the rear view mirrors for regular driving. Also dedicated transport vehicles for these tunnels are unlikely to have rear view mirrors.
As for a disabled cars with injured passengers, that only seems possible in case of an accident, we'll still have to see how often this happens and if necessary they'll create specially designed emergency vehicles and trained personnel, though again, the question is how likely of an occurance this would be. If you get injured passengers due to something not caused by the car, the car could just drive them to the nearest exit point (an emergency button might be nice) and maybe even raise an alarm beforehand. As for a disabled car in the tunnel without injured passengers, it probably would depend on how it is disabled, in most cases it would just be towed to the nearest exit most likely, though I don't really see many reasons as to why a car would have this happened.
In all cases I guess there likely will be an emergency protocol clearing the tunnel and if on that location you have multiple tunnels (different routes or for extra capacity), cars would likely get redirected untill the tunnel is clear.
Ofcourse there isn't just a great solution for these kind of problems, but that isn't really different from accidents above ground, which can cause massive traffic jams etc. and with the accident site not always easily reachable due to this traffic.
I do think any car entering the tunnel most likely would need to be certified (ie definitey yearly check up etc), it helps that EV's have less things than can break and cause a car to crash/come to a standstill on its own. And automated systems tend to be safer, especially when they all are automated and thus no real unexpected behaviours happens.
Really good abalysis
About 4 minutes in before I realized that you were not saying LUBE...
Well your freight cost/idea isn’t as simple as you made it sound.
The $1000 you mentioned from LA to San Diego is to door, meaning container is pickup at port LA and delivered directly to consignee in SD.
If, let’s say, they go into a tunnel pipeline there would have to be door deliver from the “tunnel” terminal in SD to final consignee, which would be 500-700 per 20’/40’ + cost of tunnel. You would also need a truck to move it from port terminals (where vessels berth) to the “tunnel” terminal. Unless tunnel is located close to Long Beach you are looking at additional 400-500.
It’s way more likely California (maybe NV, NM, AR) FCL deliveries will be serviced by an autonomous fleet of i.e. Tesla Semis
Also how much does it cost to just move the container by truck?^^
The reason TBMS are expensive is that most use diamonds for the digging
people still believe he is a visionary ! LOL ! even in movies they had those ideas decades ago. he was watching AI surely.
Elon is doing what others dream of.
Why does it matter that people already though of this in the past as a science fiction/future concept, Musk is just trying to make it a reality.
The Loop system videos that shows Open holes as the car carrier lift drops below the surface without any guard rails around it makes no sense. Only a PR Job, these would need guard rails surrounding the hole until an automated cover secures the holes. I would expect in the end this would be a drive in entrance with at least concrete and glass walls on three sides and a good sized barrier on the entrance which will be camera controlled as it recognizes a correctly sized vehicle nears the Loop access.
Health and safety first, never mind about the law suits from people falling into the access holes.
Look up 'Cargo Souterrain' - project to have an underground cargo system in Switzerland, saidly never took off, had been around for over a decade.
I wanted to share a concept for continuous tunneling. I'm trying to describe my thoughts on a novel process of "continuous helical tunnel boring" I think this kind of concept could speed the construction of a 3dimensional tunnel system that Elon Musk described exponentially. If there is anyone you could think of to share this idea with I would appreciate that.
.
Working from the premises that it is better to continuously "pour" the structural concrete tunnel walls rather than pausing the tunneling process to lay precast sections of wall.
The area of operations we are then focusing on is the area directly behind the boring machine face and within the tunnel shield wall where we will have to transport materials for forming our tunnel wall from without the tunnel dig to the area of operations.
These materials being a role of sandwiched basalt fiber fabric pre impregnated with high strength Portland cement, configured into a sleeve that when injected with wet concrete will create a continuous form laid in a spiral or helical manor along the tunnel wall and forming a negative worm gear. These roles can be transported to the area of operations by autonomous electric vehicle conveyance. The roles being of a fixed length must be connected end to end by a process of stitching by which the two ends are laid open and sown together as the material is being fed to the work surface. To do this without interrupting the whole process slack has to be fed towards the wall end in an inch worm fashion and then taken up again until the next seam is necessary. These rolls of basalt fiber fabric have a structural cross threading in a manner in which when filled with concrete they form a roughly T shaped extrusion creating both a structural concrete form and the inner teeth of the negative worm gear. These pre impregnated basalt fabric roles which both give structural form and act as structural forms for the wet concrete mix are key to continuously forming the walls of the tunnel.
Two other main elements in this process are water and wet concrete mix both separately conveyed to the area of operations through high pressure hoses. It's important to note that ideally a concrete batching plant be located at the entrance to the tunnel and raw materials stockpiled so as to avoid delays in pouring that come from concrete mixing trucks being ironically stuck in traffic that the boring company is attempting to alleviate. Also that ideally spoil material from the tunnel would be mixed with this concrete and reconstituted as the walls of the tunnel. Raw water is needed to activate the impregnated basalt fabric and applying it is a tricky problem. I'm going to try to use an analogy to describe this process and the process of injecting the wet concrete into the fabric sleeve. We should all by now as I write this in the beginning of 2021 be familiar with the image of an intubation tube being inserted down the esophagus of a patient. In this case the intubation tube is the nozzle end of the concrete hose which is inserted in the fabric sleeve which is the esophagus of our patient. The nozzle is a two pant system with an inner hose reaching farther into the sleeve and an outer jacket even applies water to the inside of the fabric sleeve.
Directionality of this tunnel wall system is achieved by the flexible nature of the fabric sleeved poured concrete rather than the traditional precast concrete block systems used today.
The means of conveyance of the tunnel boring machine is achieved by an articulated tunnel shield which locks into the worm gear of the tunnel, screwing itself along with a multitude of industrial inhud electric drive wheels. Theses drive wheels are relatively low speed compared to electric car motors but harness the high torque and flexible geometry of electric drive systems.
Working on this idea. The current limiting factor to tunnel construction is the placing of precast concrete tunnel segments. The above concept is an attempt to break from that system.
I can see a tram in these tunnels. It would be like a mini-subway, and it could be integrated to the main subway lines. I can also see supply lines for local businesses in cities.
Local businesses don't have 10 million per mile though
@@johnuferbach9166 Several local businesses are close to each other. But this is something for city governments. They are the ones that may want to remove trucks from their streets.
@@joaodecarvalho7012 now that you say it.. in a city close by they did that in combination with an underground parking lot that also allows trucks to access some buildings underground
@@johnuferbach9166 The underground has great potential for cities, and is still little explored. I would send all the cars to there, and only leave pedestrians and bicycles on the surface.
@@joaodecarvalho7012 The underground also has great costs for anyone though :x
Boring company is precursor of Hyperloop.
People can’t imagine stepping out of there bubbles (cars) and travel in pods with group of “others” especially after this pandemic
Love your videos. From India
I have said this before and will say this again, the container business will make them billions..
Earthquakes ?
The bricks made from creating the tunnels are going to be free for affordable housing projects & there really cheap yet strong.
I want a brick! It will be my SPECIAL little brick...
credit where credits due, you promised something nobody else is reporting on. and that you delivered 👏
How is it a good idea? It's just "cool" but way less efficient and overall worse than just trains. Because making a tunnel is just another lane. And we all know how that doesn't work well
If SPACEX can build rockets for 10% of the usual cost. The Boring company should be boring tunnels for people (subway) instead of tunnel for cars. What do you think about this Elon ?
That's another Elon company,hyperloop.
Loop is nothing but cars driving in the tunnel.
And here you are today, having more subscribers then views 🙃
there are many channels giving almost continuous information about Space X and Telsa, but hardly anyone giving us anything about this
look forward to more information
Information about TBC isnt coming out as often as for SpaceX and Tesla. TBC is just doing less, and the work they do, is mostly done underground.
@@simonquvang6073 that is for sure (their work is all underground) but is there no one on site who is watching and tweeting?
You don't blame me for having heard of something? Umm okay. Thanks, I guess?
The people at the company are not treated well
Try and add subtitles ....... cc is easy .............. will increase your reach ...... love from Lucknow India
Also with this new design they can have an underground metro that goes multiple levels and can also send independent carts rather than a whole train so in turn it can send multiple carts to different locations from one location so every stop could be a like a bus station to anywhere at all times.
Imagine Tesla vans or minibuses, with like 9 or more seats each, controlled by a central algorithm to always carry as many passengers as reasonably possible, maximizing transport efficiency, with every single passenger having a short and efficient route to their destination, spending as little time as possible in transit.