As a person that gets excessively nervous in real 5v5 competitive games, I love playing with bots and modifying them to wreck my ass with unfair aimbot and third eye advantages until I adapt to them and eventually dominate their AI without any repercussions at all. I could just stop the game whenever I wanted, or what if I don't want sniper preferring bots in my match? Easy, I'll just kick and add the bots I know use rifles and shottys more, mostly because I'm very familiar with cs's bots. In a way, the bots having the same name across all cs games make them feel like a family to me. Also because my mic sucks.
@@reckapple5641 yo dude same i literally did the same thing with my bots as well. I feel alot more freedom when playing with bots than with real people
i only noticed it was philip like 3 minutes in :D at the start i was like: uhmmm WarOwl is talking aabout his own map but it doesnt sound like its his on map. strange
I've played Warowl's map with friends (5v5 comp with novas) and it was so good. Its like a weird combo between Dust2 and Mirage. We loved it Someone really should finish it in hope of that getting in the map pool.
@@sliceofbread2611 He needs the feedback imo Just like the soloQ series, the MM Academy and the current "Should we do X in competitive CS" stuff he makes He makes the content for us. What we should do is giving him the love and support he needs :)
Unfortunately that won't happen. Even if his map got textured and eventually even added on scrimmage/operation, it would never get into Active Duty Map Pool. Good examples of this are Season and Tuscan. Maps loved by community and even pros. Season was in 3 operations, Tuscan none. Both of them were popular in CSS. Both of them can be played in ESEA, but is there any point to queue a map that you have never played before? Counter-Strike community is so attached to its legendary maps like Dust 2 and Inferno to see that some of them are outdated and overplayed. You can constantly see Reddit posts of people complaining about Dust 2 being boring, but if CSGO devs actually removed it from comp map pool, there would be an active outrage over it. Only way to get a map recognized by players is to force it like they did with Vertigo. And big surprise, many people hate Vertigo, like me (I loved pre-change Vertigo from 2017 btw). And I doubt devs would do that since they could just rework another old map like Cobble, Dust 1 or Aztec instead. And in the end is there any reason to remove any maps from the current map pool? All of them (even Vertigo) work fairly well and just need few tweaks to keep them fresh. Valve could recycle and update current map pool + Cache and Cobblestone until the end of time, and I doubt none would batch an eye. Because why would I queue new unknown community map, when I could just queue Mirage and know exactly what to do?
@@yoshisdream Dust 2 was removed from the active map pool. It's now a reserve map IIRC. Dust 2 is the most popular map because it is considered the most balanced and it is the oldest map. It's been around since 1.6 and old players feel comfortable on maps they can recognize which makes it immediately more approachable than overpass or vertigo(Which are arguably less popular in MM at MG-DMG). The real problem is that there is no safe environment to learn maps you've never played. Even if maps were forced onto the community, they won't be played that much. Vertigo only had success because it was forced into the ACTIVE Map pool and even then, much of MM doesn't like it in my experience because it's just confusing and not played enough and MM players don't spend hours learning ever nook and cranny of a map, which isn't even bad. There is no safe environment to learn new maps. The CS team has taken steps towards this with the inclusion of Scrimmage but limiting it to a few maps was the wrong move and arguably makes no one want to play it when there are maps there that will never be added into real comp(Except mirage which is on there for some reason). Scrimmage should either A) Be a box you check on the comp screen and when you check it, you queue for a random scrimmage match on any active duty map or B) It's own screen that works just like competitive
all your points are exactly why i stopped mapping, but i still remember the good old 2009 philip mapping tutorials like func_precipitation and crappy mic. I still thank you for making my 10 years old creativity bloom in all source games, one day i will finish my own half life mod by myself. thank you philip.
Everything you said after 9:00 is so relatable even though I'm not a mapper, just overall in creative work it can be really confusing. You get some ppl saying they want one thing, some others saying the complete opposite. In the end you feel it's better to just trust your gut. (hopefully). And I'm still struggling on learning when to finish something, but my go to tactic is to leave something for a few weeks and then have a look again. Usually I see it in a completely different way whereas working on something constantly you only begin to notice the details, the flaws etc and you no longer see it as other people would, like a complete thing. Great video!
I would love to see a colaboration between you and WarOwl. Just like you said it's hard to playtest your map with actual players, maybe you guys could do a series where you showcase/test the maps made by the community (myself included althought im barely getting into it), that way you can put some of these new maps on the spotlight and give valuable feedback to mapmakers. People usually ask for new maps and stuff, but most of them don't really play them anyway, so making something like "viewer games" on twitch for example, might bring some light into what i am sure are diamonds in the rough. Keep up the good work mate, as always your content is awesome.
That's such a good idea! Instead of just complaining how it used to be in CSS, we could revive the content creation and the non-toxic communities ourselves! :D
13:05 damn I felt that, I remember so many cool community servers with buttons and all sorts of cool shit in CSS and it was indeed so fun and exciting to explore all these new maps because back then in the Source days gaming were way more casual and fun, I recently started playing Day of Defeat Source and it´s so much fun to just jump in any server with people who used to play the game back in its prime and no one is cheating or are toxic it´s so nice from a change when coming from a game like CS GO.
I've started mapping and im still learning all the basics and doing everything efficiently. Thanks for all your videos explaining all the basics and thought processes. It's been really fun so far!
I love how bright and inviting FMPONE's map looks. It very much gives me a suburban american backyard feel, I hope he keeps the tone going forward with texturing and adding detail.
this is why i love TF"'s mapping scene so much, they have a discord dedicated to mapping and helping people to map and thay hold daily community matches where you can submit your map to be played by full teams of people conscious of how maps are made and what works, its a very successful system and has lead to incredible community maps, maybe something like this could be made for CS:GO?
I miss those crazy maps from CS:S with elevators and towers or breaking glass and walls, they were really weird and unpredictable. Those were true masterpieces among the amateur mapping community.
@@PanagiotisPolyzois I was thinking about minigame maps, they aren't really popular in CS:GO, because the game focuses on competitive. They removed everything, that was fun in CS:S such as ragdolls and physical objects for a more steady and balanced approach.
I don’t play CSGO but I still watch these videos and that goes to show how good your writing is, Philip. Your structure, use of language and most importantly ideas is what makes me appreciate this channel.
I used to love Playtesting. We played a community night every Tuesday in Reddit. With first playing a new map every week and giving some feedback. It was fun, and half of the maps ended up on some operation. We don't do community night or playtest anymore. We still met for Tuesday tenmans on Discord but it's only 20 people. Maybe I get into mapcore cups on Faceit...
I love everything about your style. You're positive, while being fair. You don't shy away from talking about problems, but you also don't spend all your time on it, and give time to the positive stuff as well. Keep it up!
this is honestly a great video on creative work generally. it reminds me of times ive heard authors talk about the writing process, and you put a lot of stuff ive always vaguely felt into words. and made me wanna load up the map editor for the first time in a decade too.
Only Phillip would say "If you're looking to get an idea of how to make a good map, you'll leave this video even less certain than when you started" That made me laugh
Woah. The part about knowing when to stop working on project was really insightful. My projections/art would be stuck in "develop hell" with nonstop changes and eventually end with a product I don't like. When imply finishing the project would yield more experience and patience for future projects.
When creating your own map, only then you'll understand what goes through a mapper's mind Building it, detailing it, optimizing it, soooo much work, it never ends
This is by far the best video you released Philip, couldn't agree more with your points! Listen to the man and let the creativity flow y'all, it's worth it
i stumbled across your channel back in the day when searching for hammer tutorials. i was making CSS maps to play with friends and your videos were very helpful. they were so helpful and on point, that once i saw them and got the info i needed, i forgot about your channel. years later i saw a csgo video that had something familiar to it. i couldnt put my finger on it at first but later recognised that i already knew your channel. have watched every video since that
As someone who tunnel-visioned my way through 5 custom CSGO maps during high school I definitely learned a lot of this video's lessons the hard way. I still think I owe it to Phillip's earlier words about the value of finishing projects that I was even able to press "publish" and not just keep them hidden away as "to-be-perfects" in a folder for years. For those like me who ever got burnt-out by CSGO mapping, spending 400+ hours in the SDK, trying to compete with the workshop as a single mapper, I'd *highly* recommend you all try buying Quake 1 (from Steam or elsewhere) and getting into the Quake 1 modding scene. There's no model inspector, only entities and good BSP work. Quake 1 mapping really prevented me from hyper-fixating on details and let me enjoy mapping again. Most modern Q1 modders use Trenchbroom or J.A.C.K. , two very-much-improved programs over Hammer that will be easy to pick up for anyone who's used Hammer. It's made me look back on mapping far more fondly on mapping as a hobby, rather than constantly returning to defuse, and making me feel sour as I spend another hour making silly func_details and setting shadow parameters correctly for bush models.
In my study a game design prof once told us to "kill your darlings". Don't grow too attached to your work or ideas. It often creates a worse product or causes tensions within a team. Even though indivitually the idea might be good, your "darling" might not work in practice or doesn't fit in to the bigger picture. Making the responsible decision to move on is key for product focused work. By following that rule and applying an iterative workflow, mechanics/maps/ideas can quickly be tested: 1. Prototyping 2. testing 3. evaluation 4. prototype iteration 5. repeat 2-4 until there is a solid basis 6. polishing + production
When randomly you zoomed in on that spinning chair, I lost my shit. You always manage to shove something funny into your serious vids. Tho I wonder if I'm just one of the few who understands your humor.
YESS a mapping video :D I miss you talking about mapping! I discovered your channel once your mapping series was finished. I hoped ever since you would make a new map and document it on youtube, not necessarily as a tutorial but as an experimental project. I'd love to have a chance to leave comments during your map production!!!
I really appreciate all the detail and effort you put into this super informative video. Fucking love it. It really makes me think about stuff sometimes. You should talk more about your music and its development/story, I think it would make interesting content for 2kliks or kilks channel.
You have a really interesting perspective on things. The way you think provides for thought provoking content. Maybe I’m just a nerd but your videos have me on the edge of my seat lol
The one time i made a map i just drew a 2d layout and went from there. I made the whole thing and spent a few days working on the bombsites and mid, but the lack of height in the map really killed it. I couldn't find good ways to balance it while putting in height. It played 'okay' but I never got 5v5 going. The method wasn't ideal, but it got me going which is what actually matters. Whatever gets you started on a creative project is a good way to enter. Making a map was a super fun experience, and I highly recommended it to anyone with a few free hours. I went from knowing nothing to having the final version of my map in 15 hours. It isn't perfect but the pride of having made something interesting and new is the best thing ever. I dont really care that nobody played it. I had fun making it. Didn't bother detailing it ever though. Maybe I should...
I am making a map right now based off an idea I had several years ago and attempted to make, unfortunately I had lost the original source file and gave up (forgetting about decompiling the alpha version I had on the workshop even though it wasn't the most up to date). The map is based off a parking garage and consists of several levels, there is the traditional way to traverse the garage and there are shortcuts. I like your sentiment about trying to make a map balanced and it not being possible, with the first iteration several years ago I attempted to make the map extremely balanced in timings, angles, the whole nine yards. But after coming back I realized my favorite maps are generally skewed towards a side and so I have put effort into making certain bombsites easier for the T's in an effort to lean the map towards T, but ct's do have a height advantage so I am really excited to finally get into play testing soon so I can see how it plays. Thanks for the years of content, the knowledge and the courage to start map making in CSGO!
agree with you on the dev textures. something about them, when done right, look extremely satisfying lol. crown and santorini were cool looking grayboxes.
Despite i am not a csgo map maker, i am a creator of other game that require a high detailing standard, and all i have to say is what your saying applied the same to us and relate so much to me
Please become a pro narrator. You are a genius at narrating “boring” or “unnecessary information” in a way so that I listen to it like my future fully depended on it. One of the few channels on YT that I always listen to every single upload no matter the topic/title and always listen to the end of the video. Great voice, tempo and vocabulary. Rank Global as narrator. Hope the world get to see you become somewhat “famous” (as in your content reach out to people outside of the 10-70 male demographic that I would guess is RUclipss core audience. You say you don’t like collabs (for mapping at least) but you and Thorin could make some seriously interesting and different content since you both have tremendous experience and knowledge about the scene and the history of the game!
i remember mapping for cs back in 2001 my pc was a bucket of ass at the time that navigating the viewport (valve hammer editor) in 3d ran as low as 4 fps so creating maps would take painstakingly long. compiling was another story.
Philip, you have unintentionally made a good case for why mapping is a form of art. As an illustrator and animator, I'd like to point out that the thankless job of detailing is something all forms of art suffer from. I love how my sketches and animatics look, but once I have to fully realize them I spend twice as long as I had already trying to color what was already a very solid drawing, or having to take the moving figure i've made and draw the belt loops on the waist for every frame. It's the same amount of work as any other stage, and the reason it feels so unnecessary is due to how innocuous these details are. You won't pay them mind if they're present in the final product, but you'd likely notice if they were absent. This seemingly intrinsic property of art is even more present in something as interactive as a map, as even the smallest detail *IS* noticed eventually, given the map is played enough times. Hell, you made an entire video about the illogical locking mechanism on a prop on cache, that likely would never have been noticed in any other art form. Maps in multiplayer video games are held to a boggling level of artistic scrutiny, because unlike an animation or a drawing they are meant to be experienced tens thousands of times for years on end. This video has offered a very good explanation of something I have never been able to fully put into words: that the true art of detailing is not knowing what to add, but knowing what will be noticed, and still working on what won't be.
Philip I wanna thank you for making mapping tutorials. (like how to use the basics of hammer) I know you got a lot of negative feedback from the mapping community from it, but I found it so much more helpful than other tutorials. Hopefully you plan on releasing more mapping videos! Thanks :)
I am split on verticality in CSGO. One one hand it raises the skill ceiling by making players check more spots with less ground clutter. it also makes the player think about their movement more and it can help a map feel more grounded (ironic pun intended) in reality. But i also dislike it as a low skill level player. on maps like overpass i find myself dying more often to people i can't see because they are above my FOV. most monitors are 16:9. this means players are more focused on what is besides them rather than what is above or below. if monitors were 1:1 i would probably be fine with it as i can look at what is up, down, left or right at the same time.
I too believe the game has became such a competitive focus. Have you ever ventured into community server style mapping though? It truly is another world. From "simple" bhop maps that are designed for fluidity, and challenge, all the way to Jailbreak maps, that have a competitive aspect in a way, but it's completely different. I understand a lot of community servers use sourcmod, and other plugins etc to actually change how a map is played, or can be played. But just the design itself in community server map making is still so different and so very interesting. I'm not much of one myself, I have played with simple bhop mapping, but I know quite a few people that create all sorts of community server maps, and I'm sure they would love to show you what goes into it.
You have been the reason why I started to do a map myself for the last 2-3 weeks (Fulltime cause I have nothing better to do right now). I don't even play CSGO on a, what I would call competetive Level and had much Fun doing so until the time to compile the very small Map went up to around 4 hours. I now only want to finish the skybox and after that maybe not really do anything with it. But nevertheless thank you for the 113 fun hours I had with it to this day
I used to do a lot of mapping for tf2 (and i'm considering doing more) and what I usually made was interesting things, attempting to break the mold. I can't remember who exactly said this to me, but one of the most inspiring comments to me was something along the lines of "I'd rather play a million cholulas then have to sit through the same viaduct copy yet again". do what's fun, do what's interesting, that's how you make the breakthroughs.
note from looking back my old posts 1. I was an absolute dork as a freshman 2. Freshman me managed to rickroll present me 3. found a quote I used on the ol' profile which basically boils down to know the pros and cons, and know what to improve on.
I've been working on a single map for pavlov VR aka counterstrike VR. It's a lot of fun but so hard to get good people to playtest it. It was voted into the map pool for the competitive season and is finally getting some incredible feedback and some good praise
Both the Mapcore and Source Engine Discord have playtesting servers which are really helpful. You submit your map for playtesting and receive feedback during/after it’s played with others.
I have a love/hate relationship with detailing. I love detailing the big picture, adding in big grandiose set-pieces and making areas that players would want to sit back and just take a screenshot of. What I _hate_ is what I can only describe as micro-detailing. I hate having to put in tiny trims, vents, and little physics props to try and make it feel not so empty. That's why most of my indoor areas tend to look demonstrably worse than my outdoor areas.
i remember messing around on making maps back in the 1.6 days, i remember leaving a gap in the map walls which made any light cause insane lag, good times for sure, i never got way into it but my brother really liked doing it, he made some really good maps back in the day, maybe i'll try to make them one day for CS:GO
Amazing video, my only regret in gaming, in regard to map making, is that I never released my maps, I love to fiddle on the editors(multiple games), but never committed myself to have then published and cared for after. One of my favorite mappers on CS was 3dMike, his maps are amazing and none alike to this day, had inspired me on a couple maps that I made and lost due to formats and PC changes.
12:58 People don't play on community maps in CS:GO because official matchmaking is quicker and easier to get into and the options for them are more prominent in the menu UI. It happened to TF2 as well. People flow to the path of least resistance. And Valve made the path of least resistance flow away from user-created content.
There is a rudimentary Battle Royale mod for the First Unreal Tournament (1999) and a server I usually play on every other week. I feel as if your words spoke to my heart, i have a goal of becoming a professional level designer, but i guess i was becoming blind to the true essence, having fun! well time to start making a UT BR fun map! :D
The first "problem" with FMPone's map which comes to mind for me is that it's gonna be incredibly hard checking/holding angles when he ditches 45 degree angles. But maybe that's also a refreshing new thing as one of my favorite things is getting an advantage through having an unexpected angle on my enemies. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to some fresh maps being established into competetive :)
He can't talk about anything and make it interesting by nature. The reason why he sounds like this in videos is the hard work he puts into scripting everything and cares for keeping that quality standard. He probably wouldn't be as interesting to listen if he improvised everything, but that's not a bad thing! It's hard work that makes him sound like that, and that is admirable.
My style of mapping (mostly for Half-Life 2: Deathmatch & Left 4 Dead's Survival Mode) boil down to "Throw brushes at the wall & see which ones stick".
13:12 I find this to be very true, it seems like people play the game just to increase their ranks whereas I've always seen playing the game as a means to having fun. I think that many people take it way too seriously
At the moment I am watching a lot of your old Source SDK tutorials and learn stuff about mapping, I make a Cobblestone "remake", its obviously not my own map, but this video told me still much about critics, if I will be so lucky to get them. '^^
I only played counter strike once, a really long time ago 15 years ago or even more... I did enjoy fiddling with map editor in L4D / L4D2 but that was a long time ago still i enjoy your videos (this kind of videos) 🙂
Yea the visuals is what we see first, level design and the underlying must be discovered and tasted like a fine wine. In big teams normally its a level artist that do the detailing not level designer, but doing both is great for work variations. Agree, you should only map if you have fun doing so and really want to do it. Which is the case for most stuff. Mostly for the no fame, no money stuff.
The only major CSGO RUclipsr I know that likes and supports bots as much as I do. Never change, Philip.
As a person that gets excessively nervous in real 5v5 competitive games, I love playing with bots and modifying them to wreck my ass with unfair aimbot and third eye advantages until I adapt to them and eventually dominate their AI without any repercussions at all. I could just stop the game whenever I wanted, or what if I don't want sniper preferring bots in my match? Easy, I'll just kick and add the bots I know use rifles and shottys more, mostly because I'm very familiar with cs's bots.
In a way, the bots having the same name across all cs games make them feel like a family to me.
Also because my mic sucks.
Same for me +1
@@reckapple5641 can you tell how to give bots better aim?
I thought this was Fortnite commenting because of the blue F in your profile ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@reckapple5641 yo dude same i literally did the same thing with my bots as well. I feel alot more freedom when playing with bots than with real people
"you're wrong warowl" probably the most positive way he's heard that sentence in a long time.
hes wrong about everything
Friendly Stranger who?
Friendly Stranger What does he have to do with this
Friendly Stranger what was that video
Gavin - Bruh
"An ok one" - *shows Mirage*
"and the best one ever" - *shows de_sparity*
lol I just commented that
I came here to find this comment
@@digojez ahahaha of courseeee not
@@jankkhvej434 i typed as fast as I could to be the first one and have a lot of likes for the first time ever and it feels good
João Duarte straight fax
Oh wow, i saw the thumbnail and the title and assumed i'm going to see a Warowl video. I was suprised by hearing philips voice.
damn exactly the same ^^
Same
You didn't see the trademark font and lens flare?
The lens flare is pretty well hidden in this one
i only noticed it was philip like 3 minutes in :D at the start i was like: uhmmm WarOwl is talking aabout his own map but it doesnt sound like its his on map. strange
"Dust 2 was made without even knowing where the bombsites are going to B"
damn, that's some eminem wordplay
@@apoorvwatsky Actually, I think it's good word play /s
I've played Warowl's map with friends (5v5 comp with novas) and it was so good. Its like a weird combo between Dust2 and Mirage. We loved it
Someone really should finish it in hope of that getting in the map pool.
i think they should finish it in the hope of having fun
@@sliceofbread2611 He needs the feedback imo
Just like the soloQ series, the MM Academy and the current "Should we do X in competitive CS" stuff he makes
He makes the content for us. What we should do is giving him the love and support he needs :)
Unfortunately that won't happen. Even if his map got textured and eventually even added on scrimmage/operation, it would never get into Active Duty Map Pool. Good examples of this are Season and Tuscan. Maps loved by community and even pros.
Season was in 3 operations, Tuscan none. Both of them were popular in CSS. Both of them can be played in ESEA, but is there any point to queue a map that you have never played before?
Counter-Strike community is so attached to its legendary maps like Dust 2 and Inferno to see that some of them are outdated and overplayed. You can constantly see Reddit posts of people complaining about Dust 2 being boring, but if CSGO devs actually removed it from comp map pool, there would be an active outrage over it.
Only way to get a map recognized by players is to force it like they did with Vertigo. And big surprise, many people hate Vertigo, like me (I loved pre-change Vertigo from 2017 btw). And I doubt devs would do that since they could just rework another old map like Cobble, Dust 1 or Aztec instead.
And in the end is there any reason to remove any maps from the current map pool? All of them (even Vertigo) work fairly well and just need few tweaks to keep them fresh. Valve could recycle and update current map pool + Cache and Cobblestone until the end of time, and I doubt none would batch an eye. Because why would I queue new unknown community map, when I could just queue Mirage and know exactly what to do?
@@yoshisdream Dust 2 was removed from the active map pool. It's now a reserve map IIRC. Dust 2 is the most popular map because it is considered the most balanced and it is the oldest map. It's been around since 1.6 and old players feel comfortable on maps they can recognize which makes it immediately more approachable than overpass or vertigo(Which are arguably less popular in MM at MG-DMG).
The real problem is that there is no safe environment to learn maps you've never played. Even if maps were forced onto the community, they won't be played that much. Vertigo only had success because it was forced into the ACTIVE Map pool and even then, much of MM doesn't like it in my experience because it's just confusing and not played enough and MM players don't spend hours learning ever nook and cranny of a map, which isn't even bad. There is no safe environment to learn new maps.
The CS team has taken steps towards this with the inclusion of Scrimmage but limiting it to a few maps was the wrong move and arguably makes no one want to play it when there are maps there that will never be added into real comp(Except mirage which is on there for some reason). Scrimmage should either A) Be a box you check on the comp screen and when you check it, you queue for a random scrimmage match on any active duty map or B) It's own screen that works just like competitive
@@yoshisdream people want change but they are scared of it
2:46 Look at the map layout. Now look at WarOwl's face.
That is the face of a man proud of his creation.
all your points are exactly why i stopped mapping, but i still remember the good old 2009 philip mapping tutorials like func_precipitation and crappy mic. I still thank you for making my 10 years old creativity bloom in all source games, one day i will finish my own half life mod by myself. thank you philip.
Everything you said after 9:00 is so relatable even though I'm not a mapper, just overall in creative work it can be really confusing. You get some ppl saying they want one thing, some others saying the complete opposite. In the end you feel it's better to just trust your gut. (hopefully).
And I'm still struggling on learning when to finish something, but my go to tactic is to leave something for a few weeks and then have a look again. Usually I see it in a completely different way whereas working on something constantly you only begin to notice the details, the flaws etc and you no longer see it as other people would, like a complete thing. Great video!
You the guy who made p2000 ivory or was it turf?
@@worldtec9098 ivory ye :D
I would love to see a colaboration between you and WarOwl. Just like you said it's hard to playtest your map with actual players, maybe you guys could do a series where you showcase/test the maps made by the community (myself included althought im barely getting into it), that way you can put some of these new maps on the spotlight and give valuable feedback to mapmakers.
People usually ask for new maps and stuff, but most of them don't really play them anyway, so making something like "viewer games" on twitch for example, might bring some light into what i am sure are diamonds in the rough.
Keep up the good work mate, as always your content is awesome.
That's such a good idea! Instead of just complaining how it used to be in CSS, we could revive the content creation and the non-toxic communities ourselves! :D
"a balanced map doesn't exist. It's an illusion. A bourgeois construct." Love this!!!
3kliks a communist confirmed?
13:05 damn I felt that, I remember so many cool community servers with buttons and all sorts of cool shit in CSS and it was indeed so fun and exciting to explore all these new maps because back then in the Source days gaming were way more casual and fun, I recently started playing Day of Defeat Source and it´s so much fun to just jump in any server with people who used to play the game back in its prime and no one is cheating or are toxic it´s so nice from a change when coming from a game like CS GO.
André Bjerregaard hell yea dod:s is life
Cool, another DoD:S player! There's only one active server is Aus for me though.
@@lewiscain-mcaliece1805 Too bad, there are plenty in Europe
André Bjerregaard lots of them are in America, sniper servers are tense.
@@supermachine2275 Yeah I noticed that too that many are from America with 300+ ping but there are still several with below 100 ping servers.
I've started mapping and im still learning all the basics and doing everything efficiently. Thanks for all your videos explaining all the basics and thought processes. It's been really fun so far!
I love how bright and inviting FMPONE's map looks. It very much gives me a suburban american backyard feel, I hope he keeps the tone going forward with texturing and adding detail.
i could listen to you talk about anything!
TRUE
Truth
Eargasm
Even about cock and balls torture?
this is why i love TF"'s mapping scene so much, they have a discord dedicated to mapping and helping people to map and thay hold daily community matches where you can submit your map to be played by full teams of people conscious of how maps are made and what works, its a very successful system and has lead to incredible community maps, maybe something like this could be made for CS:GO?
I don't remember when they originally made it, but TopHatWaffle has a server with channels for just that thing
I miss those crazy maps from CS:S with elevators and towers or breaking glass and walls, they were really weird and unpredictable. Those were true masterpieces among the amateur mapping community.
Well no one likes them in csgo apparently. Vertigo and Agency.
How do Vertigo & Agency relate to anything he said?
And who the fuck doesn't like Agency?
@@PanagiotisPolyzois I was thinking about minigame maps, they aren't really popular in CS:GO, because the game focuses on competitive. They removed everything, that was fun in CS:S such as ragdolls and physical objects for a more steady and balanced approach.
@@DonDadda45 Me. I don't like Agency. It's a preference.. You like it, I don't.
you're probably just too bad for it
I don’t play CSGO but I still watch these videos and that goes to show how good your writing is, Philip. Your structure, use of language and most importantly ideas is what makes me appreciate this channel.
I used to love Playtesting. We played a community night every Tuesday in Reddit. With first playing a new map every week and giving some feedback. It was fun, and half of the maps ended up on some operation.
We don't do community night or playtest anymore. We still met for Tuesday tenmans on Discord but it's only 20 people. Maybe I get into mapcore cups on Faceit...
I love everything about your style. You're positive, while being fair. You don't shy away from talking about problems, but you also don't spend all your time on it, and give time to the positive stuff as well. Keep it up!
WarOwls video and the stuff on your channel have inspired me to mess around in Hammer, having fun so far even with so much to learn
this is honestly a great video on creative work generally. it reminds me of times ive heard authors talk about the writing process, and you put a lot of stuff ive always vaguely felt into words.
and made me wanna load up the map editor for the first time in a decade too.
Only Phillip would say "If you're looking to get an idea of how to make a good map, you'll leave this video even less certain than when you started"
That made me laugh
11:50 "guess which of these three things yields the most gameplay?"
*shows spinning chair model*
*Me sits for hours on my spinny chair.* He's not wrong you know.
Woah. The part about knowing when to stop working on project was really insightful. My projections/art would be stuck in "develop hell" with nonstop changes and eventually end with a product I don't like. When imply finishing the project would yield more experience and patience for future projects.
When creating your own map, only then you'll understand what goes through a mapper's mind
Building it, detailing it, optimizing it, soooo much work, it never ends
OMG IM SO HAPPY YOU DID A VIDEO ON THIS
This is by far the best video you released Philip, couldn't agree more with your points! Listen to the man and let the creativity flow y'all, it's worth it
i stumbled across your channel back in the day when searching for hammer tutorials. i was making CSS maps to play with friends and your videos were very helpful. they were so helpful and on point, that once i saw them and got the info i needed, i forgot about your channel. years later i saw a csgo video that had something familiar to it. i couldnt put my finger on it at first but later recognised that i already knew your channel. have watched every video since that
What a banger of a video. Hits all the points home and has a good message for potential map makers
As someone who tunnel-visioned my way through 5 custom CSGO maps during high school I definitely learned a lot of this video's lessons the hard way. I still think I owe it to Phillip's earlier words about the value of finishing projects that I was even able to press "publish" and not just keep them hidden away as "to-be-perfects" in a folder for years.
For those like me who ever got burnt-out by CSGO mapping, spending 400+ hours in the SDK, trying to compete with the workshop as a single mapper, I'd *highly* recommend you all try buying Quake 1 (from Steam or elsewhere) and getting into the Quake 1 modding scene. There's no model inspector, only entities and good BSP work.
Quake 1 mapping really prevented me from hyper-fixating on details and let me enjoy mapping again. Most modern Q1 modders use Trenchbroom or J.A.C.K. , two very-much-improved programs over Hammer that will be easy to pick up for anyone who's used Hammer. It's made me look back on mapping far more fondly on mapping as a hobby, rather than constantly returning to defuse, and making me feel sour as I spend another hour making silly func_details and setting shadow parameters correctly for bush models.
"Your best hope is to make games that are one sided....for both sides"
>Speech 100
That was a pretty good sentence tho.
Wow this was 4 year ago??? I thought I watched this like yesterday. When warowl made his map video, then you talk about it.
Warowl and you are the only cs tuber i follow and watch most videos, very great content. Thx
There's always something nostalgic about 'dev textures' in a map.
Honestly I thougth you were going to texture Warowl's map in this video
same xD
"a bourgeois construct"
omg i love you so much
wait a second...
11:40
there it is again!
12:08
Nothing to see here, carry on
8:04
@@dannyparker5858 I said nothing
@@vincentmiller3386 nice
A bourgeois construct? I always had 1 feeling 3kliksphilip was a comrade!
In my study a game design prof once told us to "kill your darlings". Don't grow too attached to your work or ideas. It often creates a worse product or causes tensions within a team. Even though indivitually the idea might be good, your "darling" might not work in practice or doesn't fit in to the bigger picture. Making the responsible decision to move on is key for product focused work.
By following that rule and applying an iterative workflow, mechanics/maps/ideas can quickly be tested:
1. Prototyping
2. testing
3. evaluation
4. prototype iteration
5. repeat 2-4 until there is a solid basis
6. polishing + production
3:40 thats crazy that is literally ancients map layout almost with like missing one line and t and ct is flipped
When randomly you zoomed in on that spinning chair, I lost my shit.
You always manage to shove something funny into your serious vids.
Tho I wonder if I'm just one of the few who understands your humor.
YESS a mapping video :D
I miss you talking about mapping! I discovered your channel once your mapping series was finished. I hoped ever since you would make a new map and document it on youtube, not necessarily as a tutorial but as an experimental project. I'd love to have a chance to leave comments during your map production!!!
I would personally like to see more HOSTAGE maps, which would also remove the "3 lane map" template many maps use.
Too bad the general CS community seems to think originality is bad.
@@duuqnd I agree with that, but I also think hostages isn't a great gamemode.
@@adog3129 i think its brilliant 🤷
@@adog3129 Hostage rescue could definitely use some improvements, but no improvements are done since people don't play it.
3:33 interesting piece of art
I really appreciate all the detail and effort you put into this super informative video. Fucking love it. It really makes me think about stuff sometimes.
You should talk more about your music and its development/story, I think it would make interesting content for 2kliks or kilks channel.
You have a really interesting perspective on things. The way you think provides for thought provoking content. Maybe I’m just a nerd but your videos have me on the edge of my seat lol
Your mapping videos are incredibly comfortable AND informative to watch. Thank you, philip
The one time i made a map i just drew a 2d layout and went from there. I made the whole thing and spent a few days working on the bombsites and mid, but the lack of height in the map really killed it. I couldn't find good ways to balance it while putting in height. It played 'okay' but I never got 5v5 going. The method wasn't ideal, but it got me going which is what actually matters. Whatever gets you started on a creative project is a good way to enter.
Making a map was a super fun experience, and I highly recommended it to anyone with a few free hours. I went from knowing nothing to having the final version of my map in 15 hours. It isn't perfect but the pride of having made something interesting and new is the best thing ever. I dont really care that nobody played it. I had fun making it. Didn't bother detailing it ever though. Maybe I should...
I am making a map right now based off an idea I had several years ago and attempted to make, unfortunately I had lost the original source file and gave up (forgetting about decompiling the alpha version I had on the workshop even though it wasn't the most up to date). The map is based off a parking garage and consists of several levels, there is the traditional way to traverse the garage and there are shortcuts. I like your sentiment about trying to make a map balanced and it not being possible, with the first iteration several years ago I attempted to make the map extremely balanced in timings, angles, the whole nine yards. But after coming back I realized my favorite maps are generally skewed towards a side and so I have put effort into making certain bombsites easier for the T's in an effort to lean the map towards T, but ct's do have a height advantage so I am really excited to finally get into play testing soon so I can see how it plays. Thanks for the years of content, the knowledge and the courage to start map making in CSGO!
People don't realise how hard mapping is until they do it themself
ez in minecraft but not for CS
:D
agree with you on the dev textures. something about them, when done right, look extremely satisfying lol. crown and santorini were cool looking grayboxes.
Despite i am not a csgo map maker, i am a creator of other game that require a high detailing standard, and all i have to say is what your saying applied the same to us and relate so much to me
I hope warowls map makes it into the official map pool, it plays surprisingly great
i wish you would do a mapping series. i watched warowls video of making the map and it was very entertaining.
Please become a pro narrator. You are a genius at narrating “boring” or “unnecessary information” in a way so that I listen to it like my future fully depended on it.
One of the few channels on YT that I always listen to every single upload no matter the topic/title and always listen to the end of the video.
Great voice, tempo and vocabulary. Rank Global as narrator.
Hope the world get to see you become somewhat “famous” (as in your content reach out to people outside of the 10-70 male demographic that I would guess is RUclipss core audience.
You say you don’t like collabs (for mapping at least) but you and Thorin could make some seriously interesting and different content since you both have tremendous experience and knowledge about the scene and the history of the game!
I love the amount of phallic imagery
I definitely remember messing about in 1.5 and 1.6. Truly times that I miss.
i remember mapping for cs back in 2001 my pc was a bucket of ass at the time that navigating the viewport (valve hammer editor) in 3d ran as low as 4 fps so creating maps would take painstakingly long. compiling was another story.
Philip, you have unintentionally made a good case for why mapping is a form of art. As an illustrator and animator, I'd like to point out that the thankless job of detailing is something all forms of art suffer from. I love how my sketches and animatics look, but once I have to fully realize them I spend twice as long as I had already trying to color what was already a very solid drawing, or having to take the moving figure i've made and draw the belt loops on the waist for every frame. It's the same amount of work as any other stage, and the reason it feels so unnecessary is due to how innocuous these details are. You won't pay them mind if they're present in the final product, but you'd likely notice if they were absent.
This seemingly intrinsic property of art is even more present in something as interactive as a map, as even the smallest detail *IS* noticed eventually, given the map is played enough times. Hell, you made an entire video about the illogical locking mechanism on a prop on cache, that likely would never have been noticed in any other art form.
Maps in multiplayer video games are held to a boggling level of artistic scrutiny, because unlike an animation or a drawing they are meant to be experienced tens thousands of times for years on end.
This video has offered a very good explanation of something I have never been able to fully put into words: that the true art of detailing is not knowing what to add, but knowing what will be noticed, and still working on what won't be.
Mommy im on TV 11:27
Will i get any klikpoints™?
Huh
Philip I wanna thank you for making mapping tutorials. (like how to use the basics of hammer) I know you got a lot of negative feedback from the mapping community from it, but I found it so much more helpful than other tutorials. Hopefully you plan on releasing more mapping videos! Thanks :)
I am split on verticality in CSGO. One one hand it raises the skill ceiling by making players check more spots with less ground clutter. it also makes the player think about their movement more and it can help a map feel more grounded (ironic pun intended) in reality. But i also dislike it as a low skill level player. on maps like overpass i find myself dying more often to people i can't see because they are above my FOV. most monitors are 16:9. this means players are more focused on what is besides them rather than what is above or below. if monitors were 1:1 i would probably be fine with it as i can look at what is up, down, left or right at the same time.
I too believe the game has became such a competitive focus. Have you ever ventured into community server style mapping though? It truly is another world. From "simple" bhop maps that are designed for fluidity, and challenge, all the way to Jailbreak maps, that have a competitive aspect in a way, but it's completely different. I understand a lot of community servers use sourcmod, and other plugins etc to actually change how a map is played, or can be played. But just the design itself in community server map making is still so different and so very interesting. I'm not much of one myself, I have played with simple bhop mapping, but I know quite a few people that create all sorts of community server maps, and I'm sure they would love to show you what goes into it.
You have been the reason why I started to do a map myself for the last 2-3 weeks (Fulltime cause I have nothing better to do right now). I don't even play CSGO on a, what I would call competetive Level and had much Fun doing so until the time to compile the very small Map went up to around 4 hours. I now only want to finish the skybox and after that maybe not really do anything with it. But nevertheless thank you for the 113 fun hours I had with it to this day
pls do another mapping series, just having fun. It's truly enjoyable to follow
I used to do a lot of mapping for tf2 (and i'm considering doing more) and what I usually made was interesting things, attempting to break the mold. I can't remember who exactly said this to me, but one of the most inspiring comments to me was something along the lines of "I'd rather play a million cholulas then have to sit through the same viaduct copy yet again". do what's fun, do what's interesting, that's how you make the breakthroughs.
note from looking back my old posts
1. I was an absolute dork as a freshman
2. Freshman me managed to rickroll present me
3. found a quote I used on the ol' profile which basically boils down to know the pros and cons, and know what to improve on.
I've been working on a single map for pavlov VR aka counterstrike VR. It's a lot of fun but so hard to get good people to playtest it. It was voted into the map pool for the competitive season and is finally getting some incredible feedback and some good praise
Both the Mapcore and Source Engine Discord have playtesting servers which are really helpful. You submit your map for playtesting and receive feedback during/after it’s played with others.
I have a love/hate relationship with detailing.
I love detailing the big picture, adding in big grandiose set-pieces and making areas that players would want to sit back and just take a screenshot of.
What I _hate_ is what I can only describe as micro-detailing. I hate having to put in tiny trims, vents, and little physics props to try and make it feel not so empty. That's why most of my indoor areas tend to look demonstrably worse than my outdoor areas.
Never skip a single video on your channel since 2014, wellp
This is a really fascinating perspective. Thanks for making this.
i remember messing around on making maps back in the 1.6 days, i remember leaving a gap in the map walls which made any light cause insane lag, good times for sure, i never got way into it but my brother really liked doing it, he made some really good maps back in the day, maybe i'll try to make them one day for CS:GO
Amazing video, my only regret in gaming, in regard to map making, is that I never released my maps, I love to fiddle on the editors(multiple games), but never committed myself to have then published and cared for after.
One of my favorite mappers on CS was 3dMike, his maps are amazing and none alike to this day, had inspired me on a couple maps that I made and lost due to formats and PC changes.
I swear Phillip can make a paperclip sound interesting, great video as usual!
This is just really good philosophy for anything creative.
FMPone's map looks like a fine Halo map tbh. Really cool
3:25 is basically just Dust2 in an extremely simple form
3kliksphilip love your videos and tutorials, I owe you more than you will ever know :)
Philip you're a cool dude if I met you I would buy you a beer and have a nerdy chat. Keep it up brother.
This is exactly the video I wanted. Thanks for posting.
Philip: Balance doesn't exist.
Office: 👍
12:58 People don't play on community maps in CS:GO because official matchmaking is quicker and easier to get into and the options for them are more prominent in the menu UI. It happened to TF2 as well. People flow to the path of least resistance. And Valve made the path of least resistance flow away from user-created content.
An almost 14 minute video from 3kliks? I'm in heaven.
Some of my favourite maps from the cs:source days were maps that had no textures lol, loved warming up on maps with orange walls!
There is a rudimentary Battle Royale mod for the First Unreal Tournament (1999) and a server I usually play on every other week. I feel as if your words spoke to my heart, i have a goal of becoming a professional level designer, but i guess i was becoming blind to the true essence, having fun! well time to start making a UT BR fun map! :D
The first "problem" with FMPone's map which comes to mind for me is that it's gonna be incredibly hard checking/holding angles when he ditches 45 degree angles. But maybe that's also a refreshing new thing as one of my favorite things is getting an advantage through having an unexpected angle on my enemies. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to some fresh maps being established into competetive :)
10:47 👌🏻👌🏻
Love these kind of videos, can relate to the part on collaborating and making music lol
dammit philip, this makes me want to try creating maps again, nice video.
Hey, Philip, you have a good voice how about you start a cs go podcast. I think many people would support you
But what could he possibly talk about that can’t be made into a video?
Del Piero being held to a daily or biweekly schedule is not good for csgo youtubers. not enough content
He can't talk about anything and make it interesting by nature. The reason why he sounds like this in videos is the hard work he puts into scripting everything and cares for keeping that quality standard. He probably wouldn't be as interesting to listen if he improvised everything, but that's not a bad thing! It's hard work that makes him sound like that, and that is admirable.
he probably wont se this but i personally feel that texturing and modeling is the most fun part
This video's pretty wholesome
My style of mapping (mostly for Half-Life 2: Deathmatch & Left 4 Dead's Survival Mode) boil down to "Throw brushes at the wall & see which ones stick".
Thanks for making my day better
13:12 I find this to be very true, it seems like people play the game just to increase their ranks whereas I've always seen playing the game as a means to having fun. I think that many people take it way too seriously
At the moment I am watching a lot of your old Source SDK tutorials and learn stuff about mapping, I make a Cobblestone "remake", its obviously not my own map, but this video told me still much about critics, if I will be so lucky to get them. '^^
I only played counter strike once, a really long time ago 15 years ago or even more... I did enjoy fiddling with map editor in L4D / L4D2 but that was a long time ago
still i enjoy your videos (this kind of videos) 🙂
Yea the visuals is what we see first, level design and the underlying must be discovered and tasted like a fine wine.
In big teams normally its a level artist that do the detailing not level designer, but doing both is great for work variations.
Agree, you should only map if you have fun doing so and really want to do it.
Which is the case for most stuff. Mostly for the no fame, no money stuff.
It took him over a year to "redesign" cache but he can make this map basically in a few months, nice.