Loved to watch and learn from this video, even though it's rare occasion. Agreed that the Plate Ump really did a great job of noticing and executing the missed base call, but something that should have been stressed more emphatically is the WE, as Professional UMPIRES, ARE A TEAM AND WE RESPECT EACH OTHER AND THEIR JUDGEMENT. And WHEN THE SITUATION CALLS FOR IT, WE WILL DO WHATEVER'S NECESSARY TO ASSIST OUR PARTNER IN DEALING WITH ANY PROBLEMS RESULTING FROM THEIR DECISION. The Base Ump, in my opinion, needed to prepare himself to enter whatever discussion(s) with the Coaches there was and make the effort to defuse whatever animosity there may be as a result of the call. Always back your Partner up...
Not an umpire (soccer ref), but wanted to compliment the host of the video on a fantasitc breakdown of this event. Especially liked the constructive criticism for field ump; leaving partner out to dry like that is not a good look. HPU did an outstanding job with this from start to finish, and handled the aftermath like a pro. Kudos on the video, and will look forward to the next one.
You cracked me up Patrick at the end with your comment on your first Ad read. LOL Good stuff as always. I saw this play on another youtube channel and it was not clearly expounded upon like you did. Just a side note, I have worked with too many umpires who are like the base umpire. Whether one would call it lazy or something else, these are the guys who do everything possible to avoid anything potentially controversial and are great at both failing their basic responsibilities and BS excuses. I'm not perfect but I at least am always trying to hustle and give the best effort I can. And of course always trying to learn from my own as well as the mistakes and great moments of others...that's why I come to your channel.
Imagine if instead of the pompous celebration on the base paths, if the runners could’ve waited the 2.7 seconds to celebrate after the play was over. There are about a thousand “celebrate too early” video compilations on RUclips. When will these young kids/adults learn that (1) take care of business and (2) celebrate the success… and only on that order!?
I feel like my mechanics would be to say loudly, “The defense is appealing that the runner did not touch home! He did not touch home! He is out! That is the 3rd out!”
It would definitely be helpful. Imagine if it had been 3 to 1 when this happened. Then you would have to explain who was out, how many runs score. It’s not going to be fun 🤯
@@UmpireClassroom I'm a soccer referee, but that was my thought while watching the video. In both soccer & baseball, there are limitations to what the approved hand signals can convey. I'm a big proponent of using my voice to get out in front of objections and arguments. By calmly and loudly stating the facts of the ruling BEFORE making the out motion, you make sure everyone on and around the field is on the same page, but most importantly, you eliminate the need to go to the coach afterwards to explain anything. You get the explanation out there BEFORE the emotions of both teams boil over, and in a way that you can control. Because as we all know, as soon as that out call gets made, your ability to control the situation quickly approaches zero. The other thing with this verbal approach is that it allows the HPU to better control where he's going physically. You noted that the field umpire left him out to dry, but if HPU had already verbalized the explanation, he could immediately go to the field ump after the out call. Yes, that might be the opposite direction from the exit, but it puts everyone in control of uniting the umpire crew, which is a top priority for safety.
@7:37 there is a physical altercation that began just before that when one of the players, probably R2, throws his helmet on the field and then makes contact with the plate umpire and puts the plate umpire on his heels. That's a huge problem right there. Of course the base umpire should have come in immediately when he saw R2 throw his helmet on the field, let alone charge the umpire and make contact. At least the player then shove the umpire, could have been a little worse.
General question for this exact scenario w a 2 man crew - In this vid HPU sees guy miss first. But, if the field ump has to watch the ball go over fence which takes some time (especially w 2 outs since runners dont have to tag), and HPU has lead runner / 3rd and home, how do we cover all base touches and a trouble ball? So let's say same exact play and field ump watches ball go over fence - HPU watches guy on 2nd touch 3rd then home an picks up second runner touch 3rd then home. How can 1 umpire (field) see guy touch second from first, and batter runner touch first and ball leave park? I know it isn't perfect w a 2 man crew but how is seeing the ball leave as well as 3 runners touching bases possible? And is there a priority list in watching runners in this scenario? Basically it is the same question as a 2 man when bases loaded and less than 2 outs fly ball / tag up situation
You don't want suggest anything to any team, because if you suggest exactly that they will then agree and be like YEAH OF COURSE. You don't want put an idea of somthing happening. I get why the home plate umpire is doing it the way he did. He doesn't want give the defensive team an advantage. The umpire from first is gotta pay attention. As soon as you see the appeal being made and you see an out get on your horse and go to Plate umpire to separate the coach that you know is coming. Gotta have that awareness. NEVER let your partner be without you protecting him. You want the same for you. Take your partner and beeline to the side that won which is the third base side. You are stronger and have better report for if anything gets physical because we've seen it happen and I've experienced it bout to happen but I removed myself and my partner that was about to get it from the team that lost coaches, players, and parents which was a very scary scenario Another trick I learned. After the appeal wad made call time, go to your field umpire and let him know what is about to happen. This way you have your buddy near you. Then you can turn point at home and signal out. When this happens let the plate umpire talk to the head coach at third, and as soon as he explains it base umpire gets infront and both beline out of there.
@robertbrown7470 you are ALWAYS allowed to get together before making a final descion. All he has to do is call time, to go his partner not for help. He's doing it to bring him in to have him close and make him aware
I've had a play twice this year that the defense missed appealing. R3 1 out, fly ball to outfield, R3 with no tag up takes off for home and slides in. Coaches screaming the ball was caught. R3 goes back to 3rd with no retouch of home plate. Beats the ball back to 3rd. No defensive appeal.
NFHS is the only baseball code with a dead ball appeal. I'm pretty sure it was adopted from softball; NFHS has had a few rules that made sense only as crossover from softball. There was something about giving the baseball to an umpire at the end of each inning that was just removed from the baseball rulebook this year, with an acknowledgement that it was a softball thing that just isn't done in baseball.
@@UmpireClassroommy experience has been that at higher levels of highschool ball, dead ball appeals are rare because the coaches tend to be former college and pro guys and they just don't think of it in the moment. I saw dead ball appeals a lot more in my first couple years working freshman and JV ball with walk-on coaches who may have little to no experience outside of high school.
@@davej3781 If it was from softball, I think it was a compromise rule when they changed to require an appeal. In order to get all parties to agree to the change, they wanted to make it as easy as possible to appeal.
If he says a runner missed home and it is not obvious who he is appealing, then simply ask him "Who are you appealing?" He could say all of the runners one at a time, but can't just say "All of them."
Your explanation was awesome however I would add some things for further instruction. 1) The positioning of the HP umpire to watch the runners touch HP was incorrect. He should have been inside of the field of play looking back at HP so his view was not obstructed by the runners, catcher, or the celebrating team. There is no way that he saw R2 miss the plate for sure from behind HP. He's not Superman and can't see through the runner's right leg/foot to see if R2 touched the back corner of HP or not. The HP umpire has the same poor view of R2 touching HP as the catcher. That is not a position umpires want to be in with everyone having a camera phone now. Video showing an umpire out of position and that video hits the internet proving the umpire missed a call. That is why we get in the best position possible. 2) The HP umpire alerted the defense of the possible missed HP by looking at the defensive coach with runners still in motion after R2 crossed HP. That's is not his job even if R2 did miss HP. He should have remained stoic as if the runner did touch HP. Umpires are not out there to help either team.
You are assuming a lot here. I don't disagree that he should have been inside field to watch players touch but that doesn't mean he didn't see it (watch at 2:28) . Also, I think he looked toward the catcher not necessarily the coach when R2 crossed. At any rate, I have seen so many players miss home plate this year and nobody on defense is watching. Seems so basic but any good catcher is watching, especially on a home run with multiple runners coming in. It seems to me that if you wanted to have an issue with an umpire in this video it would be the base umpire who does so many basic things wrong that he could be used for a half hour video on what NOT to do in two-man during a critical play and part of the game.
@@willowbrook2717 .. I'm not assuming anything. I didn't need to cover the same ground that the video did an excellent job of covering already. I covered the mistakes that the video didn't address. We can see the umpires head to know what he was looking at. He clearly looked at the defensive coach after R2 crossed the plate. He even looks at R2 after he crossed the plate and has jumped into the crowd of his teammates. People pick up on that non-verbal communication from umpires. This amounts to helping one of the teams. The HP ump has no idea if R2 touched the plate with the inside of his right foot since it would be impossible to see from behind the runner. Both the HP umpire and catcher are in the wrong position to see if R2 missed the plate entirely. R2 could have touched the black, but due to poor positioning it appears to the umpire that he missed the plate altogether. This is how an umpire gets embarrassed by video taken by other people. The HP umpire should have been in the field of play where his view would have been unobstructed. Umpires need to understand that the runner can obstruct their view near bases so they should move to obtain an unobstructed position. The last thing umpires should do is guess.
@@JohnCarterRocksImagine writing all of that out just to be completely wrong. Your view of a touch at home can be just as easily impeded from your suggested positioning as it can from where this umpire was. However, it's almost completely moot, as this umpire's view wasn't impeded in the slightest (by the catcher or offensive teammates) for any of the touches of home. As long as you have an unobstructed view, you can literally be at any point around the plate. If you can get an unobstructed view that puts yourself between the catcher and batter/runner/offensive teammates, then that's actually ideal, as it will allow you to quickly nip any potential situation between teams in the bud immediately.
@@Rwl751 .. Your lack of experience has failed you again. The umpires view was obstructed, by the runners right leg/foot, which is why I mentioned it in my comment. The umpires head position says that the umpire only looked at R2s left leg which missed the plate completely however the right foot was too close to call out with poor positioning. The ideal on a HOME RUN BALL is to be located in the field of play look back at the plate to make sure all runners touch the plate. If you had ever umpired an MLB game, then you would know that inside the field of play is the proper positioning on this play. Being located in the field of play on a home run ball removes the catcher and batters teammates from obstructing your view. It also removes the runner since 99.9% runners touch the back of the plate and not the front side near the field of play. 99.9% of home runs have zero altercations between teams so there is no reason to alter the umpire's position. Your seat in stands is waiting for you.
@@JohnCarterRocks It's so damn funny to me when people like you, who think you know what you're talking about, get all condescending online, while being incorrect. I could reveal my identity, which would make you think twice about ever again being this level of an incorrect jackass. But instead, I'll just leave you with one simple question, since your point here is that inside fair territory is the ONLY place to be to see a touch of home. What happens when the catcher moves in front of the plate as well?
I did a reread of the MLB rules (I don't have a copy of NFHS rules). Looks like the batter gets a HR, but no RBI. R2 takes 3rd, but is put out by an unassisted put out by the catcher. You'd have 2 left on base. And the pitcher would thank R2, cause he doesn't get the 3 earned runs he otherwise would've gotten. High school scoring might be different. I keep score as a hobby and I am curious how the scorekeeper and the scoreboard operator are supposed to know the appeal and the call. It's apparent an appeal for a touch of home, but which runner? The home plate ump is trying to save his butt, so I wouldn't expect him to stick around for a conversation!
@stephenherring So how is it scored? And what rule do you see to support the scoring decision? I read 9.05 as the batter gets at least a hit, as R2 did safely reach 3rd. The 9.06 comment calls out two specific situations, neither involving home runs, and then says that outside of the scenarios called out, the value of the hit shall not be determined by the actions of the preceding runner. I thought originally that it would be scored as a single, but I didn't read 9.06 as allowing that scoring.
Preceding runner is out at home. So the best the batter could get is 2 bases. Play reverts to when R2 missed the plate and is out. So, R3 is at 3rd and BR is at 2nd. Inning is retroactively over at that point. You can’t have a HR w/o an RBI.
I don't think that base umpire saw what was going on. I think he was blocked by all the players that came out of the dugouts. But of course he should have been down to the plate area right away. Why he just stood there doesn't make sense to me.
And you have a problem with the coach making big gestures and so forth. No wonder the player is getting out of control. It often starts with the coach.
Too many umpires are not on the same page. It only shows in stiuations like this. Then you find out your partner is not doing what he should be doing. We are supposed to be a team out there and it sucks when you find out that maybe you aren't a team, just two separate individual umpires out there umpiring.
Give me a good reason this is a necessary rule? When its a homerun, why not just let everyone score without running? Not by rule, im suggesting a rule change.
touching each base in order is the fundamental rule of scoring a run in every baseball code. there is not, and does not need to be, any other way to score a run. why complicate that which is simple?
Based on what you can see in this video, the base umpire really has no business being in a game of this importance in the first place. He seems to have a lazy do-not-care attitude about the whole thing.
I'm really hoping this U1 is a lower level guy who just doesn't know any better. Umpire shortage sometimes means you have to pull lower ranked umpires up onto games they have no business working, and sometimes this is how it goes.
The sad part is a lot of these guys are just never properly trained and don’t take enough continuing education to keep improving. But we try to help! Learn and keep improving. He’s likely never gotten this level of feedback.
This is a rare situation and one that he’s never been talked through. A lot of pessimistic bashing of the BU. I hope he finds this and scrolls to see this comment. My advice would be this is a very rare situation, but as Patrick said you need to take the HC after the initial conversation. We see this done in the bigs all the time usually the 3B umpire or crew chief takes the head coach. My question to you Patrick is… does the catcher have to specify which runner missed the base. What if he were to say, “Idk one of them missed it, I saw it.” Obviously you saw this too, but what is your response to that? I’d never thought about asking which runner. Obviously have read and studied this rule, but never had it happen.. so it’s good to be prepared incase it does!!
Yep and that is why as coach it is important to lay down expectations to players AND parents regarding being respectful towards Umpires at the beginning of the season. Every youth sport has this problem.
Loved to watch and learn from this video, even though it's rare occasion. Agreed that the Plate Ump really did a great job of noticing and executing the missed base call, but something that should have been stressed more emphatically is the WE, as Professional UMPIRES, ARE A TEAM AND WE RESPECT EACH OTHER AND THEIR JUDGEMENT. And WHEN THE SITUATION CALLS FOR IT, WE WILL DO WHATEVER'S NECESSARY TO ASSIST OUR PARTNER IN DEALING WITH ANY PROBLEMS RESULTING FROM THEIR DECISION. The Base Ump, in my opinion, needed to prepare himself to enter whatever discussion(s) with the Coaches there was and make the effort to defuse whatever animosity there may be as a result of the call. Always back your Partner up...
Love the segue to the sponsor message.. Nicely done Patrick
Not an umpire (soccer ref), but wanted to compliment the host of the video on a fantasitc breakdown of this event. Especially liked the constructive criticism for field ump; leaving partner out to dry like that is not a good look. HPU did an outstanding job with this from start to finish, and handled the aftermath like a pro.
Kudos on the video, and will look forward to the next one.
Your commercial was Priceless.
Keeping the boys safe and when the big moment comes up. They are ready to make the call.
Fucking Love It !!!
love the reaction of the plate umpire at the 0:58 second mark. His head spun to see if the defensive coach was looking lol
Killed the add read! Great stuff please keep bringing
Haha thanks for supporting!
Love the ad read and the trailer!
You cracked me up Patrick at the end with your comment on your first Ad read. LOL Good stuff as always. I saw this play on another youtube channel and it was not clearly expounded upon like you did.
Just a side note, I have worked with too many umpires who are like the base umpire. Whether one would call it lazy or something else, these are the guys who do everything possible to avoid anything potentially controversial and are great at both failing their basic responsibilities and BS excuses. I'm not perfect but I at least am always trying to hustle and give the best effort I can. And of course always trying to learn from my own as well as the mistakes and great moments of others...that's why I come to your channel.
Glad you like it! I definitely think my take was unique compared to others such as CCS.
Imagine if instead of the pompous celebration on the base paths, if the runners could’ve waited the 2.7 seconds to celebrate after the play was over.
There are about a thousand “celebrate too early” video compilations on RUclips. When will these young kids/adults learn that (1) take care of business and (2) celebrate the success… and only on that order!?
Great ad placement!😂😂
Haha tried to be slick with it
Excellennt video and excellent segue to the ad!
Try to play it cool 😂
I feel like my mechanics would be to say loudly, “The defense is appealing that the runner did not touch home! He did not touch home! He is out! That is the 3rd out!”
It would definitely be helpful.
Imagine if it had been 3 to 1 when this happened. Then you would have to explain who was out, how many runs score. It’s not going to be fun 🤯
@@UmpireClassroom I'm a soccer referee, but that was my thought while watching the video. In both soccer & baseball, there are limitations to what the approved hand signals can convey. I'm a big proponent of using my voice to get out in front of objections and arguments. By calmly and loudly stating the facts of the ruling BEFORE making the out motion, you make sure everyone on and around the field is on the same page, but most importantly, you eliminate the need to go to the coach afterwards to explain anything. You get the explanation out there BEFORE the emotions of both teams boil over, and in a way that you can control. Because as we all know, as soon as that out call gets made, your ability to control the situation quickly approaches zero.
The other thing with this verbal approach is that it allows the HPU to better control where he's going physically. You noted that the field umpire left him out to dry, but if HPU had already verbalized the explanation, he could immediately go to the field ump after the out call. Yes, that might be the opposite direction from the exit, but it puts everyone in control of uniting the umpire crew, which is a top priority for safety.
@7:37 there is a physical altercation that began just before that when one of the players, probably R2, throws his helmet on the field and then makes contact with the plate umpire and puts the plate umpire on his heels. That's a huge problem right there. Of course the base umpire should have come in immediately when he saw R2 throw his helmet on the field, let alone charge the umpire and make contact. At least the player then shove the umpire, could have been a little worse.
General question for this exact scenario w a 2 man crew - In this vid HPU sees guy miss first. But, if the field ump has to watch the ball go over fence which takes some time (especially w 2 outs since runners dont have to tag), and HPU has lead runner / 3rd and home, how do we cover all base touches and a trouble ball? So let's say same exact play and field ump watches ball go over fence - HPU watches guy on 2nd touch 3rd then home an picks up second runner touch 3rd then home. How can 1 umpire (field) see guy touch second from first, and batter runner touch first and ball leave park? I know it isn't perfect w a 2 man crew but how is seeing the ball leave as well as 3 runners touching bases possible? And is there a priority list in watching runners in this scenario? Basically it is the same question as a 2 man when bases loaded and less than 2 outs fly ball / tag up situation
Sometimes you can see everything. If they appeal a runner missing a base and you did not see it, you can't call him out.
You don't want suggest anything to any team, because if you suggest exactly that they will then agree and be like YEAH OF COURSE. You don't want put an idea of somthing happening. I get why the home plate umpire is doing it the way he did. He doesn't want give the defensive team an advantage.
The umpire from first is gotta pay attention. As soon as you see the appeal being made and you see an out get on your horse and go to Plate umpire to separate the coach that you know is coming. Gotta have that awareness. NEVER let your partner be without you protecting him. You want the same for you. Take your partner and beeline to the side that won which is the third base side. You are stronger and have better report for if anything gets physical because we've seen it happen and I've experienced it bout to happen but I removed myself and my partner that was about to get it from the team that lost coaches, players, and parents which was a very scary scenario
Another trick I learned. After the appeal wad made call time, go to your field umpire and let him know what is about to happen. This way you have your buddy near you. Then you can turn point at home and signal out. When this happens let the plate umpire talk to the head coach at third, and as soon as he explains it base umpire gets infront and both beline out of there.
The plate umpire needs to make the call right away.
@robertbrown7470 you are ALWAYS allowed to get together before making a final descion. All he has to do is call time, to go his partner not for help. He's doing it to bring him in to have him close and make him aware
What would happen with runner #3 and 4 if there was no outs ?
Great and tough call…. I’ll buy the ump a beer!
Yup. I was going to point out the same fact. The base umpire letting his partner feel the heat of the losing team.
Definitely not helping!
Interesting. I thought appeals had to be live ball in NFHS. I guess I better rewatch your appeals video.
Don't worry. Most the coaches don't know about the dead-ball appeal either!
I've had a play twice this year that the defense missed appealing. R3 1 out, fly ball to outfield, R3 with no tag up takes off for home and slides in. Coaches screaming the ball was caught. R3 goes back to 3rd with no retouch of home plate. Beats the ball back to 3rd. No defensive appeal.
NFHS is the only baseball code with a dead ball appeal. I'm pretty sure it was adopted from softball; NFHS has had a few rules that made sense only as crossover from softball. There was something about giving the baseball to an umpire at the end of each inning that was just removed from the baseball rulebook this year, with an acknowledgement that it was a softball thing that just isn't done in baseball.
@@UmpireClassroommy experience has been that at higher levels of highschool ball, dead ball appeals are rare because the coaches tend to be former college and pro guys and they just don't think of it in the moment. I saw dead ball appeals a lot more in my first couple years working freshman and JV ball with walk-on coaches who may have little to no experience outside of high school.
@@davej3781 If it was from softball, I think it was a compromise rule when they changed to require an appeal. In order to get all parties to agree to the change, they wanted to make it as easy as possible to appeal.
Same scenario but with 0 or 1 out, R2 would be called out, R1 and BR runs would count.
Yep! Thankfully, it’s extremely rare to have an accurate appeal of a missed base.
Just wondering. Does the appeal have to say which runner didn't touch home? What if the appeal was just "Runner missed home"?
If he says a runner missed home and it is not obvious who he is appealing, then simply ask him "Who are you appealing?"
He could say all of the runners one at a time, but can't just say "All of them."
Your explanation was awesome however I would add some things for further instruction.
1) The positioning of the HP umpire to watch the runners touch HP was incorrect. He should have been inside of the field of play looking back at HP so his view was not obstructed by the runners, catcher, or the celebrating team. There is no way that he saw R2 miss the plate for sure from behind HP. He's not Superman and can't see through the runner's right leg/foot to see if R2 touched the back corner of HP or not. The HP umpire has the same poor view of R2 touching HP as the catcher. That is not a position umpires want to be in with everyone having a camera phone now. Video showing an umpire out of position and that video hits the internet proving the umpire missed a call. That is why we get in the best position possible.
2) The HP umpire alerted the defense of the possible missed HP by looking at the defensive coach with runners still in motion after R2 crossed HP. That's is not his job even if R2 did miss HP. He should have remained stoic as if the runner did touch HP. Umpires are not out there to help either team.
You are assuming a lot here. I don't disagree that he should have been inside field to watch players touch but that doesn't mean he didn't see it (watch at 2:28) . Also, I think he looked toward the catcher not necessarily the coach when R2 crossed. At any rate, I have seen so many players miss home plate this year and nobody on defense is watching. Seems so basic but any good catcher is watching, especially on a home run with multiple runners coming in.
It seems to me that if you wanted to have an issue with an umpire in this video it would be the base umpire who does so many basic things wrong that he could be used for a half hour video on what NOT to do in two-man during a critical play and part of the game.
@@willowbrook2717 .. I'm not assuming anything.
I didn't need to cover the same ground that the video did an excellent job of covering already.
I covered the mistakes that the video didn't address.
We can see the umpires head to know what he was looking at. He clearly looked at the defensive coach after R2 crossed the plate. He even looks at R2 after he crossed the plate and has jumped into the crowd of his teammates. People pick up on that non-verbal communication from umpires. This amounts to helping one of the teams.
The HP ump has no idea if R2 touched the plate with the inside of his right foot since it would be impossible to see from behind the runner.
Both the HP umpire and catcher are in the wrong position to see if R2 missed the plate entirely. R2 could have touched the black, but due to poor positioning it appears to the umpire that he missed the plate altogether. This is how an umpire gets embarrassed by video taken by other people.
The HP umpire should have been in the field of play where his view would have been unobstructed. Umpires need to understand that the runner can obstruct their view near bases so they should move to obtain an unobstructed position.
The last thing umpires should do is guess.
@@JohnCarterRocksImagine writing all of that out just to be completely wrong. Your view of a touch at home can be just as easily impeded from your suggested positioning as it can from where this umpire was. However, it's almost completely moot, as this umpire's view wasn't impeded in the slightest (by the catcher or offensive teammates) for any of the touches of home.
As long as you have an unobstructed view, you can literally be at any point around the plate. If you can get an unobstructed view that puts yourself between the catcher and batter/runner/offensive teammates, then that's actually ideal, as it will allow you to quickly nip any potential situation between teams in the bud immediately.
@@Rwl751 .. Your lack of experience has failed you again.
The umpires view was obstructed, by the runners right leg/foot, which is why I mentioned it in my comment. The umpires head position says that the umpire only looked at R2s left leg which missed the plate completely however the right foot was too close to call out with poor positioning.
The ideal on a HOME RUN BALL is to be located in the field of play look back at the plate to make sure all runners touch the plate. If you had ever umpired an MLB game, then you would know that inside the field of play is the proper positioning on this play.
Being located in the field of play on a home run ball removes the catcher and batters teammates from obstructing your view. It also removes the runner since 99.9% runners touch the back of the plate and not the front side near the field of play.
99.9% of home runs have zero altercations between teams so there is no reason to alter the umpire's position.
Your seat in stands is waiting for you.
@@JohnCarterRocks It's so damn funny to me when people like you, who think you know what you're talking about, get all condescending online, while being incorrect. I could reveal my identity, which would make you think twice about ever again being this level of an incorrect jackass.
But instead, I'll just leave you with one simple question, since your point here is that inside fair territory is the ONLY place to be to see a touch of home.
What happens when the catcher moves in front of the plate as well?
does the batter still get credit for a home run? How would you score his at bat?
I did a reread of the MLB rules (I don't have a copy of NFHS rules). Looks like the batter gets a HR, but no RBI. R2 takes 3rd, but is put out by an unassisted put out by the catcher. You'd have 2 left on base. And the pitcher would thank R2, cause he doesn't get the 3 earned runs he otherwise would've gotten. High school scoring might be different.
I keep score as a hobby and I am curious how the scorekeeper and the scoreboard operator are supposed to know the appeal and the call. It's apparent an appeal for a touch of home, but which runner? The home plate ump is trying to save his butt, so I wouldn't expect him to stick around for a conversation!
@@ryanvannice7878 NO, because the 3rd out is recorded (by missing the plate) before the batter/runner scores.
@stephenherring So how is it scored? And what rule do you see to support the scoring decision? I read 9.05 as the batter gets at least a hit, as R2 did safely reach 3rd. The 9.06 comment calls out two specific situations, neither involving home runs, and then says that outside of the scenarios called out, the value of the hit shall not be determined by the actions of the preceding runner. I thought originally that it would be scored as a single, but I didn't read 9.06 as allowing that scoring.
Preceding runner is out at home. So the best the batter could get is 2 bases.
Play reverts to when R2 missed the plate and is out. So, R3 is at 3rd and BR is at 2nd. Inning is retroactively over at that point.
You can’t have a HR w/o an RBI.
@@ryanvannice7878what happens if there was no outs ?Does R3 and 4 have to remain at second and third?
The hardest part is not yelling back at the coach, “Imagine being so bad at coaching that your players can’t touch the bases on a home run.”
Sometimes, you just want to yell back at them that it was their dumb player that put us in this situation. Not my umpiring!
I don't think that base umpire saw what was going on. I think he was blocked by all the players that came out of the dugouts. But of course he should have been down to the plate area right away. Why he just stood there doesn't make sense to me.
And you have a problem with the coach making big gestures and so forth. No wonder the player is getting out of control. It often starts with the coach.
Too many umpires are not on the same page. It only shows in stiuations like this. Then you find out your partner is not doing what he should be doing. We are supposed to be a team out there and it sucks when you find out that maybe you aren't a team, just two separate individual umpires out there umpiring.
Give me a good reason this is a necessary rule? When its a homerun, why not just let everyone score without running?
Not by rule, im suggesting a rule change.
touching each base in order is the fundamental rule of scoring a run in every baseball code. there is not, and does not need to be, any other way to score a run. why complicate that which is simple?
@davej3781 for the sake of time is why it happens sometimes. In informal settings, homeruns don't need to be ran out to move the game along.
State playoff game…. Base ump actually turned his back on touches … ugh
Not ideal...
Based on what you can see in this video, the base umpire really has no business being in a game of this importance in the first place. He seems to have a lazy do-not-care attitude about the whole thing.
Or maybe just untrained and overwhelmed. No one can be expected to do something they were never told they should be doing.
I'm really hoping this U1 is a lower level guy who just doesn't know any better. Umpire shortage sometimes means you have to pull lower ranked umpires up onto games they have no business working, and sometimes this is how it goes.
The sad part is a lot of these guys are just never properly trained and don’t take enough continuing education to keep improving. But we try to help!
Learn and keep improving. He’s likely never gotten this level of feedback.
This is a rare situation and one that he’s never been talked through. A lot of pessimistic bashing of the BU. I hope he finds this and scrolls to see this comment.
My advice would be this is a very rare situation, but as Patrick said you need to take the HC after the initial conversation. We see this done in the bigs all the time usually the 3B umpire or crew chief takes the head coach.
My question to you Patrick is… does the catcher have to specify which runner missed the base. What if he were to say, “Idk one of them missed it, I saw it.”
Obviously you saw this too, but what is your response to that? I’d never thought about asking which runner. Obviously have read and studied this rule, but never had it happen.. so it’s good to be prepared incase it does!!
Yep and that is why as coach it is important to lay down expectations to players AND parents regarding being respectful towards Umpires at the beginning of the season. Every youth sport has this problem.
Baseball Rules are dumb sometimes...
Base umpire should be suspended