The biggest eye popper for me is how going crazy with harmonic analysis after the fact can be misleading. From the perspective of the arranger the point is giving each player a nice fluid line, aka good voice leading. Whatever vertical harmonies result from moment to moment is not the focus and not a good way to try to get into the method of the arranger. Really amazing stuff as always!
This is amazing. I'm so blown away. I've been wanting to learn jazz harmony and voicing for horns for years! I have no idea how i found your channel, but its incredible. Thank you!
for some reason this tutorial is kind of calming and satisfying. mabye its seeing the process behind these rich harmizations and then seeing the final outcome but its a tutorial i can actually pay attention to in full. great video!
Yes please do! There is a downloadable free PDF as well as the workbook on my kofi site if you want to practice. Lots of my other videos cover this as well
This is one of my best finds on RUclips. I have always wanted to improve my arranging in the direction of Gil Evans as I have loved all of his work, mainly focusing on his work with Claude Thornhill. Thank you so much for this resource.
I really enjoy watching your process. If you had a rhythm section playing along with this excerpt, how much of the altered harmony would you indicate in their parts?
Hey there. Thank you😀. Good question. I would probably write out the walking baseline. And at times there would a chord change per beat for the rhythm section. With a lot of the alterations listed.
Thank you very much... you have cleared so many things for me! However, can you please make a similar tutorial but just for slower tempo standards? For example Misty. I have problems how to harmonize those slow moving notes with something interesting beneath. Cheers!
You are welcome. Good news, I have several videos about harmonising Melodies. One of my first ones is called ‘how I try and harmonise like Gil Evans’. And I work on ‘when I fall in love’ . Have a look at that one. Do note that my method isn’t standard or for beginners. It’s a method I learnt from studying Gil.
Hey there! Yeah I could do, what sort of angle do you mean? As I’ve done write a few orchestration videos already. Check those out and let me know if they don’t cover what you need
Great stuff and very educational. Thank you, Alex. You seem to enforce the harmony of the sax quintet here by adding the upright bass. The walking bass mainly appears to focus on root notes, but adds an additional layer, which you could use. Do you usually give your bass player in a big band setting mainly chord symbols or do you fully arrange that part as well? You mentioned around 24:54 that you might do things a little bit differently when writing for a big band (and thinking in sections, e.g. trombones). Did I understand that correctly? Also, chords and voicings on a piano might sound quite different compared to woodwinds and brass. How well does your arranging translate from piano to big band in your experience? Here, the piano "template" worked very well for the saxes. Are you doing many changes during rehearsals (like Gil did)?
Hello 😀 I usually write the walking part during ensemble passages like this. And then write chord symbols for solos and other sections where there isn’t a horn playing down low. Yes you did understand correctly about the trombones. Piano translates surprising well to horns. It’s not perfect of course, but the basic rules of voicing relate to most acoustic situations. I think the main difference between piano and horn voicings is that on the piano a minor or major 2nd at the top of the voicing doesn’t sound as dissonant as it might do when played by horns. During rehearsals, I always try and stay present and listen to the sound of the band. I’m never afraid of changing anything! Actually I think it’s good to change things in rehearsal, as there can sometimes be things that didn’t work.
This was brilliant! I'd be very interested to see how you'd continue with the B section. One thing I noticed early on was that some rules of 'classical' counterpoint were being broken between the melody and the bassline (for example, arriving at a 5th via similar motion in bar 1). I know it's hard to generalize, but would you say that in this approach those rules become a fair bit less important as long as each individual voice sounds good?
Thank you. Well that’s a big question. I actually think I consider classical roles more than a lot of jazz arrangers would! 😃 the sound of a ‘thickened line’ is usually using parallel chords and lines so consecutive 5ths etc often get ignored. I do look out for it, but mostly just in the outer voices. It’s no accident that the best basslines usually reveal the strongest sounding passage. So I would say it depends on the context: the style and type of melody, harmony etc. sorry I didn’t really fully answer your question there
@@gilevansinsideout The thickened line is really an orchestrational thing. Even in classical music, which is primarily triadic, octave doublings can sometimes create the impression of forbidden consecutives (octaves *and* fifths), but generally not when you reduce the texture to its real parts.
Hey, true. I'm not sure you are both talking about the same 5th. I think @casinatorzcraft is talking about the 5th or altered 5th in a chord. Do you mean a consecutive 5th?
Hi! I have always learned to avoid the minor ninth interval between voices (except in dominant chords). Do you agree with this and purposely break it in bar 4 (alto Bb and Bari A)?
My experience is that you should not take this rule too seriously. Even with the saxophonist/arranger Lenni Niehaus (who is more at home in the mainstream) you occasionally can find unusual minor ninths - not only in dominant chords, especially in his many arrangements for saxophone ensemble.
Hello!great video ,thank you very much!, I'm very interested, what's the theory for the upright bass, I know how to write walking basslines, but I'm always confused about the relationship with the lowest horn, should I follow it or just pay attention to the basic harmony,I tried to analyze the relationship, but I couldn't find any specific rules, thanks for the answer
Hello, thanks for your question. The bass generally follows the lowest horn. Sometimes the lowest horn goes higher in its range, and acts more like a part than a bassline. When this happens I let the bass player improvise or write in a different bass line outlining the harmony as usual
The biggest eye popper for me is how going crazy with harmonic analysis after the fact can be misleading. From the perspective of the arranger the point is giving each player a nice fluid line, aka good voice leading. Whatever vertical harmonies result from moment to moment is not the focus and not a good way to try to get into the method of the arranger. Really amazing stuff as always!
Hey Josh, yes it can! And as you know, it’s a great way to come up with more material
The best explanation of real useful things! I am Impressed. Motivated. Thank you.
Thanks! I have several older videos explaining the same technique, so check them out
This is amazing. I'm so blown away. I've been wanting to learn jazz harmony and voicing for horns for years! I have no idea how i found your channel, but its incredible. Thank you!
Happy to help! There are a variety of these sorts of videos on my channel, so enjoy them. Let me know if you have questions
for some reason this tutorial is kind of calming and satisfying. mabye its seeing the process behind these rich harmizations and then seeing the final outcome but its a tutorial i can actually pay attention to in full. great video!
Oh that’s nice to hear. There’s plenty of others like it on my channel 😃
Great work, Alex - as always!
i don't know when you scanned my brain but your teaching method resonates with me perfectly. xD thanks!
Haha, happy to help. You’ll enjoy more of my videos then 😃
Great method. I'm gonna try this!
Yes please do! There is a downloadable free PDF as well as the workbook on my kofi site if you want to practice. Lots of my other videos cover this as well
This is one of my best finds on RUclips. I have always wanted to improve my arranging in the direction of Gil Evans as I have loved all of his work, mainly focusing on his work with Claude Thornhill. Thank you so much for this resource.
Well you are going to have a good time on my channel! 😄. Lots of Gil Evans and Claude goodness
Great concept! Thanks for sharing.
I really enjoy watching your process. If you had a rhythm section playing along with this excerpt, how much of the altered harmony would you indicate in their parts?
Hey there. Thank you😀. Good question. I would probably write out the walking baseline. And at times there would a chord change per beat for the rhythm section. With a lot of the alterations listed.
Thank you very much... you have cleared so many things for me! However, can you please make a similar tutorial but just for slower tempo standards? For example Misty. I have problems how to harmonize those slow moving notes with something interesting beneath. Cheers!
You are welcome. Good news, I have several videos about harmonising Melodies. One of my first ones is called ‘how I try and harmonise like Gil Evans’. And I work on ‘when I fall in love’ . Have a look at that one. Do note that my method isn’t standard or for beginners. It’s a method I learnt from studying Gil.
@@gilevansinsideout thank you! That's why i like it :)
Can you make a video on the different (more strange or atypical) instruments Gil wrote for? And how we can write for these new textures?
Hey there! Yeah I could do, what sort of angle do you mean? As I’ve done write a few orchestration videos already. Check those out and let me know if they don’t cover what you need
This is so helpful! So much knowledge in one video.
Glad it was helpful!
Yes the bridge!
Great stuff and very educational. Thank you, Alex.
You seem to enforce the harmony of the sax quintet here by adding the upright bass. The walking bass mainly appears to focus on root notes, but adds an additional layer, which you could use. Do you usually give your bass player in a big band setting mainly chord symbols or do you fully arrange that part as well?
You mentioned around 24:54 that you might do things a little bit differently when writing for a big band (and thinking in sections, e.g. trombones). Did I understand that correctly? Also, chords and voicings on a piano might sound quite different compared to woodwinds and brass. How well does your arranging translate from piano to big band in your experience? Here, the piano "template" worked very well for the saxes. Are you doing many changes during rehearsals (like Gil did)?
Hello 😀 I usually write the walking part during ensemble passages like this. And then write chord symbols for solos and other sections where there isn’t a horn playing down low. Yes you did understand correctly about the trombones. Piano translates surprising well to horns. It’s not perfect of course, but the basic rules of voicing relate to most acoustic situations. I think the main difference between piano and horn voicings is that on the piano a minor or major 2nd at the top of the voicing doesn’t sound as dissonant as it might do when played by horns. During rehearsals, I always try and stay present and listen to the sound of the band. I’m never afraid of changing anything! Actually I think it’s good to change things in rehearsal, as there can sometimes be things that didn’t work.
This was brilliant! I'd be very interested to see how you'd continue with the B section. One thing I noticed early on was that some rules of 'classical' counterpoint were being broken between the melody and the bassline (for example, arriving at a 5th via similar motion in bar 1). I know it's hard to generalize, but would you say that in this approach those rules become a fair bit less important as long as each individual voice sounds good?
Thank you. Well that’s a big question. I actually think I consider classical roles more than a lot of jazz arrangers would! 😃 the sound of a ‘thickened line’ is usually using parallel chords and lines so consecutive 5ths etc often get ignored. I do look out for it, but mostly just in the outer voices. It’s no accident that the best basslines usually reveal the strongest sounding passage. So I would say it depends on the context: the style and type of melody, harmony etc. sorry I didn’t really fully answer your question there
@@gilevansinsideout The thickened line is really an orchestrational thing. Even in classical music, which is primarily triadic, octave doublings can sometimes create the impression of forbidden consecutives (octaves *and* fifths), but generally not when you reduce the texture to its real parts.
Yes I agree
Very cool!!!! Might need to watch a few hundred times to make it sink into my two remaining braincells!
😅
This explains why all the big band charts I read mess with the fifth so much
Sorry, but I played hundreds of (not Evans) Big Band arrangements and did not have the feeling there is something wrong with a fifth....
Hey, true. I'm not sure you are both talking about the same 5th. I think @casinatorzcraft is talking about the 5th or altered 5th in a chord. Do you mean a consecutive 5th?
Hi! I have always learned to avoid the minor ninth interval between voices (except in dominant chords). Do you agree with this and purposely break it in bar 4 (alto Bb and Bari A)?
Ah nevermind, you harmonise it as dominant
Hey there, generally I avoid that interval, but voice leading and good bass melody trump it. There is a minor 9 in the Bb7/G for instance
My experience is that you should not take this rule too seriously. Even with the saxophonist/arranger Lenni Niehaus (who is more at home in the mainstream) you occasionally can find unusual minor ninths - not only in dominant chords, especially in his many arrangements for saxophone ensemble.
Hello!great video ,thank you very much!, I'm very interested, what's the theory for the upright bass, I know how to write walking basslines, but I'm always confused about the relationship with the lowest horn, should I follow it or just pay attention to the basic harmony,I tried to analyze the relationship, but I couldn't find any specific rules, thanks for the answer
Hello, thanks for your question. The bass generally follows the lowest horn. Sometimes the lowest horn goes higher in its range, and acts more like a part than a bassline. When this happens I let the bass player improvise or write in a different bass line outlining the harmony as usual
@@gilevansinsideout i see ,got it ,thank you for your fast reply ,it helped a lot!
No drums? ;) Sounds great, as always!
You’re a busy person 😉. Thanks
why are you showing a C trumpet? not a very jazz horn
Learn scales of chords with borrowing, then all of this becomes automatic
Nice. What sort of borrowing do you refer too? From related modes?
Currently doing this, it’s stressful but I’ll reach the other side. Great video!
@l.romain6447 You can do it!
Thank you, yup the Barry Harris thing is popping up in my feed now and again.
@music_magus haha yeah 😂 or negative harmony