Didn't know about the try-catch being sugar - thanks. I thought I said in the video that if no one uses the variable after it's taken by the function, the copy is not made. Looks like I wasn't clear enough :)
MLIR is more about lowering a language in refined steps, and doing more optimizations and analysis on the high level representations. With LLVM, it's analysis passes had to try to identify high level language constructs and optimize them /through/ the low level IR, whereas MLIR offers a framework to do these optimizations and analysis on high level constructs directly
@@cheesed_up Nim is excellent and very fast with excellent C and Python integration. The compiler architecture is being advanced after the recent release of version 2.2.0
Its really not though. Thats like saying OpenBSD is the best OS, yeah for like the 8 people using it 7 of which are its maintainers. NIM is utterly worthless and useless in the grand scheme of things. It's all about positioning and driving industry adoption.
Codon looks like an interesting project, thanks for sharing. However, the way I see it is it's just an implementation of Python, whereas Mojo is basically a different language, that happens to share the Python's syntax. Codon looks promising too!
Mojo will never be surpassed! Just look at the team and the market positioning. The language thats the best interface between human and AI will be the language, python needed a compiler and type system to be taken seriously.
I dislike the syntax, i dislike that it wants to do 300 things at once, and I do not understand what the technology do. Other than that it is a nice idea to have a language that can do everything.
I see your point. I felt the same way before trying it out - I must say that the syntax becomes a lot easier on the eyes after a while :D. But yeah, we'll see how it turns out...
lol i dislike the fact you can’t decide what your priorities are. thankfully you’ll continue to not be relied upon to contribute anything worthwhile, anywhere, likely ever.
@@dude2542 you mean targeting these other architectures? That's more a function of MLIR than Mojo. It is a capability unlocked by the underlying technology.
llvm - architecture mess, thx for vendors its living swift - is barely working transpiler to C++ mojo - ?? hmmm worlds slowest statically typed language? 1:25 mlir is focused on parallelisation
but then it's like what have you personally done that has brought hundreds of billions of dollars worth of shareholder value to the world? ....... nothing! ......oh ok! keep talking! I personally just shut the fuck up and write code! My opinion is unless you wrote something better you have no room to complain. Nothing is stopping you from creating a better solution.
Now it needs a Bython because significant whitespaces suck and make writing code super slow because you always have to check for whitespace errors which is a super dumb misfeature of Python. Ugh!
@@hanteroes in “the old days” IDEa just weren’t as smart if you even used one… so indents could get all screwed up if you moved code around.. copy/paste spaces vs tabs, etc you could accidentally muck up your code with a copy/paste and mot easily recover
@@hanteroes f-ing pay attention.. I said "in the old days". I was giving you a god damn lesson in the origin or where space indentation was problematic. Go F yourself
I think the licence is basically so they don't get copied by bezos the next day. in the discussion they said if you want to make a commercial AI/ML infrastructure, just approach them.
@@DataPastor I think it's a fair point but the alternative is probably that they will go bankrupt when AWS & Azure & GCS basically copies them and drive them out the market. Mojo is till now no Go or Swift so they need to make a language and a profitable product to keep the lights on.
If it helps, Chris has said that whether it'll be completely opensource is a matter of "when", not "if". They just have to protect themselves at this early stage.
Mojo errors are values, try/except is a syntax sugar.
When you take an owned argument a copy is not made if the value is not used by the caller again.
Didn't know about the try-catch being sugar - thanks.
I thought I said in the video that if no one uses the variable after it's taken by the function, the copy is not made. Looks like I wasn't clear enough :)
1:03 Wait, is that a Portal 2 Extras video at the top-right?
I have no idea. But it looks like it could be :)
Mojo the bloat
So it’s basically swift with a new compiler ?
Not implementing concurrecy from the start might become problematic, since adding concurrecy to an existing codebase can be a real nightmare
I generally agree, but on the other hand, they probably know more about that than I do :)
I'm really looking forward to Mojo as an alternative to Rust for general purpose. Also, I think the compiler team plans on implementing linear types.
MLIR is more about lowering a language in refined steps, and doing more optimizations and analysis on the high level representations. With LLVM, it's analysis passes had to try to identify high level language constructs and optimize them /through/ the low level IR, whereas MLIR offers a framework to do these optimizations and analysis on high level constructs directly
The video was amazing, thanks!
Zig error handling would be great
Thats why Nim is the best language.
I have to look at Nim at some point!
@@cheesed_up Nim is excellent and very fast with excellent C and Python integration. The compiler architecture is being advanced after the recent release of version 2.2.0
Its really not though. Thats like saying OpenBSD is the best OS, yeah for like the 8 people using it 7 of which are its maintainers. NIM is utterly worthless and useless in the grand scheme of things. It's all about positioning and driving industry adoption.
it feels kinda the same as python. it's just not much different for what I'm doing
Perhaps his next language will be the python-like Codon. Maybe it's better than Mojo. 🔥
Codon looks like an interesting project, thanks for sharing. However, the way I see it is it's just an implementation of Python, whereas Mojo is basically a different language, that happens to share the Python's syntax.
Codon looks promising too!
@@cheesed_upYou should also try out Ocen. It’s very new, and it’s like C, but modern, which shares a lot of Python syntax.
Mojo will never be surpassed! Just look at the team and the market positioning. The language thats the best interface between human and AI will be the language, python needed a compiler and type system to be taken seriously.
I'm prettt sure projects like LLVM CIRCT and IREE used MILR before mojo
CIRCT is also from the mojo creator who also created MLIR and LLVM, it is a pretty small world at this level.
they didn't *start* with concurrency?!?
That "will Z" meme? Much more suspicious with that accent.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about :')
@@cheesed_up The putler meme, when you said "we'll see".
Oh... :D
Not sure what to think. Probably a bit interesting. But I don't want to program in Python. :)
not an other language
It's bloated
I do not really like the synthax
Have you seen the safe C++ video? :D
@@cheesed_up Oh woaw, ok you got me. I apologize! Nice video btw
I dislike the syntax, i dislike that it wants to do 300 things at once, and I do not understand what the technology do. Other than that it is a nice idea to have a language that can do everything.
I see your point. I felt the same way before trying it out - I must say that the syntax becomes a lot easier on the eyes after a while :D. But yeah, we'll see how it turns out...
lol i dislike the fact you can’t decide what your priorities are. thankfully you’ll continue to not be relied upon to contribute anything worthwhile, anywhere, likely ever.
It doesn't want to do 300 things at once. it is actually quite minimal as far as these things go
@@melodyogonna bro the premise of the compiler is that it is easy to implement other platforms
@@dude2542 you mean targeting these other architectures? That's more a function of MLIR than Mojo. It is a capability unlocked by the underlying technology.
llvm - architecture mess, thx for vendors its living
swift - is barely working transpiler to C++
mojo - ?? hmmm worlds slowest statically typed language?
1:25 mlir is focused on parallelisation
but then it's like what have you personally done that has brought hundreds of billions of dollars worth of shareholder value to the world? ....... nothing! ......oh ok! keep talking! I personally just shut the fuck up and write code! My opinion is unless you wrote something better you have no room to complain. Nothing is stopping you from creating a better solution.
Now it needs a Bython because significant whitespaces suck and make writing code super slow because you always have to check for whitespace errors which is a super dumb misfeature of Python. Ugh!
Not sure if I agree with that statement, but I get why one would dislike the whitespace rules :D
I don't get this criticism. What the hell are you writing your code with? Notepad? Every modern ide will take care of the white spaces automatically
@@hanteroes
in “the old days”
IDEa just weren’t as smart if you even used one… so indents could get all screwed up if
you moved code around.. copy/paste
spaces vs tabs, etc
you could accidentally muck up your code with a copy/paste and mot easily recover
@@coneryj sounds like a skill issue dinosaur. Stop using notepad to edit your code
@@hanteroes f-ing pay attention.. I said "in the old days". I was giving you a god damn lesson in the origin or where space indentation was problematic. Go F yourself
Its license forbids starting any ML/AI-focused cloud services / SaaS, so I don’t even take a look. It is a huge disappointment from Chris Lattner.
I didn't know that!
I think the licence is basically so they don't get copied by bezos the next day. in the discussion they said if you want to make a commercial AI/ML infrastructure, just approach them.
I know but such a license immediately kills the adoption of a language. Nobody takes the risk.
@@DataPastor I think it's a fair point but the alternative is probably that they will go bankrupt when AWS & Azure & GCS basically copies them and drive them out the market. Mojo is till now no Go or Swift so they need to make a language and a profitable product to keep the lights on.
If it helps, Chris has said that whether it'll be completely opensource is a matter of "when", not "if". They just have to protect themselves at this early stage.
No Bloat for an undelivered language?