Thorin's Thoughts - The Cheating Problem (CS:GO)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Some thoughts on the potential cheating problem in professional Counter-Strike, whether that be a literal one or a matter of perception.
My social:
Twitter: / thooorin
Facebook: / thooorin
I know how shox cheats. KQLY is playing on a wireless keyboard and mouse backstage
probably the most likely explantion to date lol
+mikey robinson lol pretty much
the truth has been exposed
lol
I laughed so hard :)
It reminds me a lot of the case for police body cams. Pro players should jump at the opportunity to have proof that they're not cheating. There is literally no downside for legitimate players.
necroposting but I digress - not a single one, not *one* has said "YES! lockdown all the hardware and supply all peripherals. Anyone that disconnects or connects anything at any time is insta-banned and their team is disqualified. Let's prove our authenticity".
In fact, they _seethe_ at that very proposition. Really gets the 'ol noggin joggin.
@guymontag5084 Yeah that's exactly what I meant, add in a keylogger too.
"I play with xyz" "okay here you go". Ever leaves camera sight, anyone else touches it after opening etc team gets kicked.
It's sounds a little wild but it's actually very simple in practice and would solve every single issue and accusation almost immediately - as long as there's an independent middleman handling all of it - I think that'd be the tricky part.
I have a hunch that people who'd pay $$$$ for custom made cheats installed onto their mouse would have zero issues with bribing - and those invested in the pro circuit and skin market would not want to see it go to shit almost instantly. Steam makes like 50M a _month_ off of counter strike transactions alone lel. It's this weird twilight zone feel where everyone knows and they just 'lalalalalalala' with their fingers in their ears because money and the phenomenon where if you criticize something, the people who like it take it personally as if you've insulted them.
"That's _MY_ game...if he's calling bullshit than he's calling me a bullshitter too.." sort of deal.
Thorin is legit my favourite part of professional Csgo
totally agree
He's my favorite CS personality. He always guarantees gold when he speaks.
Especially on the desk. Even ESL recognised this and rehired him ;P
I'm edgy so I started to prefer Richard.
Most people here agree with you
I think 99% of csgo players forget Valves point of view in banning cheaters. When you see these suspicious cheating clips in youtube or linked from HLTV, you see tons of comments regarding how everyone who thinks there can be cheaters on pro scene you see these comments immediately to defend pros "oh gn 1 spotted" or "pros dont cheat, you just noob". If you think there are no such thing as hackers in pro scene, ask yourself this guestion. Why would Valve risk one of their greatest money makers (CSGO) by banning every single cheater in the game? Imagine Valve would suddenly ban 3-5 players from pro scene. Think how the community would react to that. If they would ban players in pro scene it would probably mean huge collapse in skin economy + players leaving the game because the creditability is gone. What would be the point to play a game where even pro players cheat who still get their money from majors even if they cheat and Valve allows this in their quiet mind. Does Valve know how many pro players are cheating? Probably yes. Why they dont ban them? They do not want csgo go to crisis. Can someone else than Valve gather evidence from pro scene hacks and publish the names + evidence if there is any pro player who cheat? No, because why would the community trust some random guy with his so called "evidence" and if the hacker has not been caught by VAC, hes not cheater. The one who comes forward with his "evidence" is probably one of those gn1 noobs who think everyone hacks. :)
Slick new overlay.
thx
It looks amazing.
Very Nice
+daunjung lol
Banal comment about a graphic on a hard hitting video about cheating. 160 likes. RUclips VIEWERS.
Speaking as a software programmer who gets paid lots of money in their day job, IMHO, Valve cannot solve this via software. The only practical way that I see to stop this is to have clean PCs and lock down the hardware. The event must provide all mouses and keyboards. You have to physically lock down the PCs. Do not allow use of web browsers. Do not allow use of any program on the PCs except the game. Do not allow any personal hardware with USB connects into the sound booth room, including USB sticks, mice, etc. Physically disable any USB connections and other connections, such as by physically removing the connector, or putting solid tape (?) or something that is difficult to remove and/or tape if it's obvious that it's being removed. Ban disconnecting a keyboard or mouse from the event computer. Have refs inside the sound booth at all times to ensure that the players are not trying to connect illicit hardware, i.e. USB sticks, personal mice, etc. Treat violations as instantly bannable offenses, causing the team to forfeit, and maybe even a lifetime ban.
Keyloggers are an additional bonus, which can provide solid evidence of cheating, and I endorse their use as well. Assuming the craziest hack, where the hack is stored in the device driver for the mouse or something, the keylogger will store all mouse movements, mouse clicks, and keyboard clicks. With that, in a timestamp format, we can match that against onscreen action. If the cheat is in the device driver or anywhere else on the computer, there will be a hard and obvious and objective difference between the keylogger data and the motions on the screen.
As I said before, cameras on the mouse try to accomplish the same goal, but they're not precise enough. A pro gamer could make excuses, like "I lifted the mouse a fraction", etc. It's not good enough to be used alone to ban someone, which means it's not useful. It's circumstantial evidence only, and again, we don't need more circumstantial evidence.
With those two plans in place, I am highly dubious of whether someone can cheat - unless they have inside help, aka help from someone inside the event, or help from someone inside Valve themself. Solving that problem is outside my domain of expertise.
To be clear, I'm talking about dedicated hardware keyloggers that sit in between the mouse and the computer, and another that sits in between the keyboard and the computer.
"Speaking as a software programmer who gets paid lots of money in their day job"
a casual flex
@@willa2725 I don't think you need to be a software engineer to use this kind of logic. Any player who refuses this simple rule, should just fuck off. Give them the keyboards, mices they are used to fresh out of the box, and let them do their entertainment.
This might sound extreme but wouldn't it completely solve the issue? I think it's not a bad idea.
Thorin is the reason i wake up in the morning and feel that my life is worth something.
Same, sometimes.
Same always.
+Bulletproof_Gaming CS:GO mondays....
How cute......
+Dylan Gormley any thing can give your life meaning
-it's past midnight, I should go to bed
-sees that Thorin uploaded a new video
-lol I guess not
basically what i thought
same
Hahaha same
+re1n1337 I always just listen to him without watching.
+1
this video is sponsered by Robin Rönnquist xD
also KQLYfornication 2014 never forget
XD
XdXdd hehe xd xD
XDDD comedy gold
Dream of KQLYfornication.
+CatnamedMittens “Michael Bialas” Emilio decided to take a long VACation.
inb4 salty SK fans
inb4 salty shox fans
*flusha
+So New fr tho, i really think Taco and Cold is cheating
+So New So where did you get the evidence to be 100% certain about that?
I don't think any of the SK guys are cheating. I never really see anything suspicious.
nah they seem fine to me
Damn, all that skrilla was finally used for something.
what is skilla? google says its a swedish indie pop band :>
+VivaLaRazsa it's money
i think you mean skrilla mate
thank you :)
He means 'skrilla', it means money
Thorin if you cough one more time I will become a hacker
Rockin that Pink Floyd shirt
Dope.
yusssss
Fuckin sick record
Literally one of the best videos addressing a controversy I have ever seen. Your reasoning is very solid, and you are very good at staying on that topic and explaining it without wasting words. In my opinion, this transcends video games, this is valid on the communication level.
FrankieseshyFilms I agree, the Hitchens and Orwell references speak to that as well.
HANG ALL CHEATERS!
No just ban then for a year or two.
+CatnamedMittens “Michael Bialas” them*
+CatnamedMittens “Michael Bialas” after we hang them or before?
ban them for life lmfao wtf
Could you give me one good reason for a ban to not be lifetime?
People who i think are cheaters:
Kqly, Flusha, Coldzera, My Ex, Olofmeister, Shox, my sis, JW, emili0,
Olof? why
And why cold and jw?
hunden is a cheater
cold? haven't seen a cheating video of him yet link plz
flusha krimz shox fallen cold taco fnx niko byali k0nfig kyerbye
What about adding invisible player models in the sky or on very strange places on maps. If someone locks it should be pretty conclusive..
WhoScopes some of the more premium hacks would get around that and already do. If I assume some pros cheat. Which I dont
I believe hacks use coordinates (x,y) for information on where players are, but only register the player ID’s of 5v5 otherwise you could aimlock onto a spectator. They have no hitbox but they have a bone and a player id position
Former Government Human #4937 Spectator is not a Ingame character. Not even has a player model
Pinto 6 Times European Champions & World Champion can you read?
Interesting overlay change.
But seriously though, even if Thooorin made a video called "Flusha doesn't cheat" people would start a witch hunt against Flusha. Sometimes I feel like the CS:GO community is made up entirely of hyperactive teenagers.
Then I realize that it almost is.
Better than lol where you get witch hunted for being mean.
"Racism" is a big issue though! (Of course, in this case, "Racism" is interpreted to mean, "Absolutely normal statements that are not racially offensive in any way.")
he is fucking really suspisous though, ive been following the scence close since mid 1.6 and ive not seen anyone as suspisous over such a long period of time.
I don't want to get into the details of that. Frankly, I don't have an opinion either way, as I haven't spent enough time watching clips like that. But my point isn't whether or not he does cheat, just that the community is incredibly toxic even to players that they love to watch. It's like a community pool that looks super inviting, but once you get in you realize that the pool manager accidentally dumped his entire stores of HCl in the water. Seriously.
What do you mean start a witch hunt? The hunt was over months ago, as he's stopped being extremely suspicious. Also, I'm fairly sure Thorin is almost confident he used to cheat. Have you seen the video where he's on the RLewis show? He made some very great points. Flusha is the only one with that many suspicious clips, and some of them, like Thorin said, are just straight out baffling suspicious. Flusha is, if legit, the most suspicious legit player Thorin has ever seen in the history of CS. He has 15 times as many clips as anyone else of pro caliber, like no other pro player in the history of CS has ever looked so much like a hacker.
In my opinion, it's mindboggling. I mean, yes, innocent until proven guilty, but he's guilty in my eyes. I'm fairly certain he dosnt cheat now (if he does, he's sure gotten better at hiding it), but I am also personally 100% certain he used to cheat. The amount of clips, and clips that are absolutely ludicrous, are simply too high. I enjoy having the debate about Flusha with people, problem is, that usually the people who say he doesnt cheat, are ignorant kids, that are impossible to argue with, because all they can basically say is 'you just hate fnatic lol, youre just complimenting it, flusha must be feelin so good cuz i know i do when i get called cheater in dm's lmaoo ;));)'
Sadly I believe it is a matter of Reputation and money, It should be fairly easy for Valve to set things up in order to catch hackers, but can you imagine if flusha got VAC banned or shox or Krimz? Valve's reputation would be shattered if flusha was found to be cheating after all this time.
Somebody Legend yeah just look at what happened to Titan when KQLY got banned, Titan lost all sponsors and lost all their revenue and had to dissolve and cs go scene as well was effected with losing sponsors so imagine if that Happened with like 5-10 pros all from different teams, all those teams would dissolve and the cs go pro scene would die and valve would lose millions
tom lea exactly. Its rotten to the core and valve very likely knows.
Proscene: "Nah no one is cheating."
Casual MM/Faceit/etc. :"You HS me trough the smoke! VAC inc. cheater."
;)
Sk gaming - bunch of aimlockers
CS Community - bunch of witch-hunters
+TaeZer lol
have you even seen colds clips?
That is just pure luck, no hacks involved there.
How much?
Thorin has the size to reach out to Valve and this videos are the best way to do it!
I do not agree when you say "if pros get the ban they deserve, cs go is dead".
No, you're wrong, if valve really does the job to clean the pro scene it would be an excellent advertising for the game.
Many players don't play or stop playing counter because of the cheat at every level, casual or pros same fight cause every pros have been a casual gamer before.....
So, it's now to valve to do what they should have done since a long time, take the cheat problem seriously and not acting like blind people with the cheat problem.
I've seen so many strange things while I was watching the majors, not only aim locks, so many illogical moves.....
And when the clutch is coming or game is entering "in the money time", the craziest things happen.
so strange ?
No, they play for the cash, and people who got money instead of brain are acting stupidly every time.
And some of those pros are really stupid.
"Burn it to the ground, burn the whole fucking thing to the ground."
-Thorin 2016
TL;DR: flusha's cheating and people are ignorant.
Fallen byali flusha fnx coldzera and mant more
+willi #nothingelse Many""""""""
shox for example lmao.
ofc
+willi #nothingelse byali is not cheating.
I always want this to happen :Thorin is recording a new vid in a hotel room, an escort walk out of the shower in the background
Happens often, he just edits it out so he can get that ad skrilla $$$
new boarder !
Hi
Hi Fozzie
me gusta ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
So good it'll keep the mexicans out Kappa
+Trainer RedCS well mate, I can't TRUMP that joke
I am not a big fan of Thorin at all, but his argument here is on point. There were very few things in his video that I disagreed with. Great job with this one, Thorin.
Get the damn mouse cameras and start purging these people from the community. We started with getting the gambling scumbags out, and we can get the cheating scumbags out too.
Unless we want to have the cheaters here, of course. That's up to Valve.
+CatnamedMittens “Michael Bialas” He didn't even imply so, he was talking about people like TmarTn and Syndicate and others who lured kids into gambling and made dozens of thousands of dollars in a very shady way
Huqe Figured.
Just because they owned the site doesn't make them anymore scumbag.
It does when you own the site, then bet on stream without telling viewers they own the site or that they're even sponsored by them. They had access to the site. They could make themselves win whenever they wanted. Making people excited and wanting to play because they won insane bets.
Mr. Fridge So you're saying that because they won insane bets everyone else thinks they also win insane bets? I really feel like it is the consumers fault here.
There's an easy way to figure out if it's a demo bug vs. something fishy: screen captures via spectators. The live in-game camera can't be on every at the same time during a match, so you get 10 spectators to in-game screen capture each player within a high level match (be it with Fraps, Dxtory, etc.) This would potentially prove or disprove demo bugs and be able to weed out smaller things. It's also easier (for now) rather than using your current idea of having keyloggers, external cameras, etc. Those could be used as further evidence, but I think taking a more simple route first is the most viable and cost-effective.
Has Valve made an answer to this? I guess not... Will they ever? I guess not.. Will CSGO perish cause of the hacking problem? I guess
How could someone dislike this video it explains the problem of cheating and provides many examples of how to solve it like fuck
flusha moves his mouse at a 60 degree angle in 1 tick, humanly not possible, even if u lift the mouse
watch my video about flusha for explanation, there was no aimlock or cheats...
Silvers, innocent until proven guilty, that is how things should be done, until there is 100% certainty in him cheating, I will defend him until that point.
Mikulka CS im not saying he is or not, he could of hit his mouse on his keyboard, ive done that so many times, but you need proof as you said
[MTS]ElementalGaming3 No, I don't, no proof for either side is innocent until proven guilty.
+Mikulka CS how tf can you logically say that. "If there's not 100% certainty he cheated I'll defend him" so you're ignoring all the evidence against him... Nice
VAC = Valve Allows Cheats
As a superhero in training, I encourage you all to have a productive day. Falling down is how we grow. Staying down is how we die.
Wtf.
+RP I Vishous you are such a nice person
Kasp Kaspensen ikr
If some teammate is cheating and everyone of the team knows, should the whole team be banned or maybe suspended for cover up the cheater?
if you can prove it then sure!!
Yes but not permanently, like for a single year.
a year-long ban seems sufficient to me, they are accomplices
It would depend on their level of involvement ,and length. if you perma ban the cheater and they won 3 majors because of it, they all should be banned if participated. its possible maybe 1 or 2 wouldn't know though so it would be person to person basis.
If they do that, they won't be scene at all.
Yeah I really don't know what the hold-up is with the mouse/keyboard cams, seems like such a no-brainer and it's not like it would be crazy expensive or anything. Pretty much every tournament has those face cams already, so... get on it.
Keyloggers would be good too, just be _absolutely sure_ that they *do not* add *any* input delay for the players. As long as that is guaranteed, there's no reason to protest it.
The idea of having players over to be "tested" in a controlled environment for a day or two is good, but I imagine clean players might hesitate to volunteer for fear of what someone might think if they showed up and just happened to coincidentally start underperforming heavily (like, if I've pieced recent Reddit posts together correctly, DaZeD's S-Rank performance this month vs. last month - sometimes you just inexplicably drop off for a bit). There has to be some way of guaranteeing players that as long as they are clean there's no way they'll even risk ending up regretting helping out.
Even though its not a huge esport, competitive pokemon is over 70% cheaters. The company has clearly defined rules but doesn't want to take action since it would pretty much ban almost everyone at worlds
Everyone from SK and fnatic should get banned!
For doing what?
+3498jonas been too good
coldzera and fallen have some fucking shady clips, especially coldzera, i honestly think he cheated in the major, just go search coldzera cheating etc
You're silver. Your opinion is fucking irrelevant. You think smurfs who rape you cheat. Don't bother trying to get involved.
Edit: @ShiSha
implying rank=intelligence
Guys, chill. Flusha is just lifting his mouse kappa
csgo competition is also about engineering just like formula one
this, it is sad that csgo is maybe potentially just a test to see who has better cheats and that valve seemingly are also fine with giving $1m to cheaters.
Yea but F1 hack that breaks the rules is easy to spot. It's not easy to spot cheats on a videogame.
engineering...
@Thooorin You mention an idea that events should essentially have a new set up's per use. This Is a great idea and would demonstrate to many that software's are not effecting the ability's of players while using that hardware specifically. What's more scary to me and something I don't think you touched upon is the fact that, if this is a legitimate response to a possible within professional scene, who is installing these third party software's? Either the players set their PC's up currently which is ridiculous and eliminating this process could be one step in the right direction. OR dodgy technicians/event organisers are setting these PC's up and installing third party software/hardware (assuming the new PC per event idea is a legitimate counter measure) Thoughts?
if shox gets banned, it would break my heart :(
kid
Wouldn't that make you gay too?
+Deansy stfu you have 2 fat gay dads :3
I'm A Narc! That's literally impossible
well, maybe one of them is skinnier
*Certain steps that can be made. I already made a video about 8 ways Valve could prevent hackers in CSGO. Now that doesn't focus on the pro scene but ultimately allowing no internet access in lans is a huge one. Also considering majors have so many sponsors I think giving freshly opened mice, keyboards, and headsets to the players right before the match is another one. I mean opened right there in public and scrutinized down to the point they are using them. No switches or funny shit. And if you think thats overkill and adds up after all the matches are played out. They could easily auction those peripherals off for discounted prices or even high prices if people want to buy peripherals used by pros when the match is over. You could also go as far as bluetooth jams and do random checks of all players binds to ensure they don't have any aim keys. This could be done through a program that tries many different key combinations in a quick amount of time. You eliminate the internet, eliminate the peripherals and run constant scans on the computers themselves and you greatly reduce what is physically possible. Of course there are ways around this and nothing is 100% but it would make a huge difference.*
i think valve is fully aware flusha is/was using cheats but won't ban him because of the negative publicity and backlash on the pro scene it would cause
Why would they have banned KQLY then?
they didn't ban him, there software did they cant do anything if they are too stupid to use shitty cheats. It's like the whole cheating in real sports "dont be stupid enough to get caught and we wont care"
+Evan Wildenhain you put in quotes like Valve said that lol, I'm sure they don't think that way
AlexanderNA because of what thorin said. kqly hadn't won a major. having a major champion later exposed as a cheater is a BAD look.
As soon as you mentioned that you had a quote, I just knew it would be from Hitchens. Top class integrity.
So obious Shox's auto aim last major in cobble.
Valve clean the scene now or this will be ruined 4ever
Easy explanation for the video without being vague or missing the main question. Thorin found Dan M's channel.
I like this dude but can someone get him a cough drop ffs
This game has been ran like a free FPS game from the start. Skinned guns and kiddy updates with party zeus and music kits. And not giving a fk about cheaters in the top level and giving every single person the benefit of the doubt as long as they don't get vac'd or esea banned. I used to play a shit free FPS game where someone made fraps bypass so you can wall and still post your live fraps looking legit. What kind of effort do people make for this game? Things you couldn't even imagine.
It's cute that everybody forgot about flusha aimlock.
Fnx and fallen then?
Hes trying harder not to be in the news as of lately but ya he did use it and probably still does.
+Agdaan Ahaan Look at Dan M's new video about fallen.
+bree bree go look at the clips and decide for yourself man. It's HIGHLY suspicious
+エスタカードジャッキー "little to no evidence" you mean MANY clips in a SHORT period of time that most certainly prompt suspicion. Not many other pros have that many fishy clips, in their entire career. Not saying I know for certain. However the cause for concern was definitely there. Also consider the fact that these clips stopped being so prevalent after the accusations
I have already thought about this, but since Valve owns a Linux-based OS (SteamOS) they could just install it on all computers in majors. They can make a derivation of their OS dedicated to major tournaments and control the permissions players have, that is only being able to install configs, start CS:GO and maybe Chrome or Firefox. It just takes a little bit of effort.
EDIT: The major problem would be hardware manufacturers not having stable Linux drivers, but there's got to be a start to everything.
Omg i just watched a 52 minute video on cheating in cs go, and then thorin releases a video on cheating? Hell yeah!
what vid did u watch?
+Joshua D its a documentary on flusha
Probably TSM Semphis' vlog
Same
Arya35 ah ok
Have to admit respect for you man! doing all these long vids in 1 take and putting the effort to clean up the community!
I think the absolutely Worst part about no one taking an action towards cheating is that it takes a lot from the enjoyment of actually good moments , with doubt and fear of cheats.
Thooorin's ideas at about 30:00 are really interesting. Like he says, I don't think I would do that if I were Valve, but if they really are worried about cheating damaging the industry that's a legitimate idea.
Hey Thorin, I liked your reasoning, but I don't believe you're aware of the new cheating methods uncovered recently. It involves users sending packets to the server, telling the game what to do. (Example on DooM49's channel, where he talk about "packet-sending" cheaters). I've found some interesting info on a forum post titled "CSGO Packet Sniffer Proof of Concept", where they're attempting to change game values mid-game, although i'm not sure if this is a local or online method. Either way, apparently users are saying that they've been using this method for months-year(s) now, without any "VAC" or punishment. (As it's not really possible to get caught). Although where you talk about requiring new peripherals and PC's could be useful, I don't think it's in their hardware. I believe they're having other people (Possibly in the crowd, or even at home) control the outcome by sending packets of information. This would be very simple to do on an LAN server, such as the ESL cologne tournament. Actually, as i'm writing this, I've considered the idea that pro's might be paying those admins/users to open up certain security measures for their benefit. (Just a possibility, please don't take this too serious until we find out more)..
It seems like there's two types of cheats.. The free or cheap $30 one that almost always result in a VAC, or the extremely well hidden one that can't be traced back to the original cheater. I believe that they're using this pack-sending exploit to their advantage, as i've seen many people talking about this recent discovery a lot.
What I feel they need to implement is a tourney client, something that isn't
ran through Windows. Something that literally boots right into CS, and
you can set all personal settings up in the game. Maybe a client that
has scrambled code, essentially a barebone version of the game. No main
screen, no skins, just pick your name and select 1 of the 3 servers that
they host on the lan. All windows options or alike can all be done in
the game with a special LAN/TOURNEY client. I think it will at least
combat the cheating or the idea of cheating offline.
Also new m/kb every tourney.
Don't have to be an expert in coding to know that cheating happens in CSGO Tournaments. But you do have to be an expert in coding to prove cheaters exist and to be seen credible.
I am in AWE! That was the best, most logical, well presented, structured and argued treatment of this topic I have seen. And you did this off the cuff with a cold! I get so mad at times with the cognitive dissonance, you really lifted my spirits here - to know, passionate, intelligent people are out there, ready to unflinchingly know the truth. If CSGO and esports ended tomorrow, you sir, would be fine. A sharp intellect. Regards
Thooorin talking about the occult and quoting George Orwell, this dude woke af
He has a point: no one with the power to do something about this big problem does anything. It is really weird. Valve knows shit and they are just ignoring it.
Finally someone actually speaks up about this...
The issue with a behind the scenes solution is that we would never know if it's already even happened.
Let's say they did do exactly as you said, implemented a way to detect cheats on lan through use of key loggers and mouse cameras that even the pros couldn't see (hidden) and then went to all of them and said "We know, never do it again or you'll get BTFO" and then they stopped.
We'd never know. Maybe KQLY was part of those that they found, and he and one other guy were the only ones to keep trying it even after warned. That's the issue, is if you're going to actually make the scene cheat free, the only point of doing it is to assure the people who care, and so a behind the scenes method is meaningless, which is why valve doesn't want to do anything in the first place. Even though with the talent and resources at valve they could catch them all within a year even if it was only a low level priority. (If there are any, if there aren't any they could tell everyone there are none)
Yes! Good video! In order to legitimize csgo as a sport, you need to invest resources to find these cheaters and expose them. This is a bigger threat to long term success than the gambling scandals
THIS IS TYPE OF VIDEO THAT AN ANALYST SHOULD MAKE. NOT SOME SHIT VIDEO "EXPOSING" SOMEONE FOR SUBS AND VIEWS.
It's not even the fact that people may or may not be cheating, it's the people who turn a blind eye to this situation because it could hurt the industry.
cs 1.6 > CS:GO nothing more to say but atleast we have skins, that explains alot. all i can say, More money = more cheaters. thank you thorin for that video :) (CS:GO is a game to make money, not to check whos the best player)
there were a shit load of pro cheaters in 1.6 including n0thing
@n0thing pls stop
valve is a company, not a god. But they are trying, trust me.
+The Ultimate Master why should we trust you?
+wayup no reason, cs employees are working on something else i feel.
The amount that Thorin talks about cheating makes me think he's seen/heard some stuff we aren't aware of.
Shox is hax0r pls ban gabe(ma)n
Thorin, I've been watching your videos since a pretty long time and never cared to comment because I've often felt in agreement with your thoughs.
But this time I gotta say : Man, you are a fucking genius. I've played the CS scene since 1999. I've been plagued by what I suppose to be cheat numerous times, in official - sometimes offline - events.
What you propose is exactly what can get rid of any suspicions in the next events.
You are wise. You think of all possibilities and try to be as open minded as possible in what to accuse and what to defend.
Seriously mate, I share you passion, I share your thoughs.
But your mind and intelligence could be used way beyond CS:GO. Way beyond.
Just sayin'.
Cheers mate, you are an inspiration.
falcuma
Flusha witch hunt incoming in 3.. 2.. 1..
Not called a witch hunt when there is 100% proof. Check out his inferno aimlock
Dank Arino witch hunt
Did you even watch the video? You are the person he talks about at the end.
Dank Arino Saltiest comment in this video lmaoo
(Response to Dank Arino) It's Raw Input ON and when you hold TAB, mouse stays still and moves to where your mouse is on the scoreboard when you let go of TAB...
Easy explanation but you're ignorant af and tries to witch hunt people without reading into it!
Flusha 100% cheated in the past, theres no doubt in my mind. But after the witch hunting and all the clips that came out, he definitely stopped using cheats.
I know that IF people wanted to catch these cheaters at LAN they would have already. It doesn't seem to be "worth it".
PhantomL0rd: Ban %?
Twitch: 100
Pro's I think are actually cheating are:
Flusha
Fnx
Emill0
Half the luminosity team.
I mean, there's a clip of Fallen or Coldzera, idk, that aimlocked 3 different people in the span of 20 seconds. It's insane.
Then fnx's final kill of the ace clutch he did on Krimz was very fishy when he was in luminosity
you seem like a hater
Benjamin Veizaga he is making an prediction not being buyest
Wasn't emilli0 vac banned? 🤔
At around 37:00 you say ''what if there arent any pro cheaters''.
Hello? KQLY?
"With an orange in his ass" lost it when he said that
😂😂😂👍👌✌
Pro players should not use their own accounts there should be new ones for each game
Ready for a duel video yet thorin. just let me know when. love to discuss it with someone like you. great video m8
You're the one he's talking about when he says some people are doing stupid stuff like analyzing what the player's face looked like and drawing flimsy conclusions based on stupid shit like that. I've seen your videos, and I think that these clips are indeed suspicious and you're doing a service by putting them out there, but I can hardly stand to watch them due to the complete lack of professionalism and frankly irritating arrogance you display in your commentary. This is exactly the kind of behavior that drives people away from even considering the existence of cheating. If you really want to help, then you'll completely remove your face-cam and unnecessary commentary ("if you don't think this is cheating then you're retarded", sarcastic laughing, or other condescending language) and just focus on the clip itself, with a full-speed, slo-mo, and then frame-by-frame analysis of the suspicious behavior.
Again, I think that you have a very important role in the investigation of cheating in csgo and I'm glad that there are people like you collecting and publishing these clips, but if you actually care about results then you need to acknowledge this responsibility and behave in a more professional manner.
To expand on this: at 4:45 when Thorin talks about the importance of silence regarding occult experiences, he's also talking to you. Trying to tell people that players are cheating and explaining to them why it's hacks just doesn't work. They first have to see the clips themselves and come to their own conclusion before you can have the kind of close conversation with them that you're trying to have in your videos. It's great to pal around with your inside viewers that have already accepted cheating in the pro scene, but for players that are just being introduced to the possibility it's a big turn-off, and the reason that I will never link anyone your videos.
I am making them entertaining to add to the appeal to add to the views to add to the exposure. Think about it pal.
I really don't care if you don't link anyone my videos, someone has to do the dirty work and put out these clips, and guess what im having fun doing it. All I can hear from you is crying, so this is the last message you will see from me because I am not wasting my time on you. My videos are opening peoples eyes, and I dont care if it is a witch hunt because like thorin said someone puts out a video and it gets attention good or bad I dont care, when someone starts investigating further they will look at my clips. Then if the person is not cheating who cares, they will catch the ones that are.
come on thorin are u scared?????????????????????????
I like that pink Floyd undershirt. Wish you were here is such an amazing album
*Edward Aimlock Kappa*
Niko aimlocking for sure
all of sk
+mute yh sk has cheaters
And when fnatic was #1 team in the world everyone thought they were cheating... Notice a pattern.... Maybe they're just good..??
for fnatic maybe there was 1 clip every tournament, i personally did not think they were cheating (except flusha prior DH 2014 but they werent even number 1 then). For SK there are new clips every round
The camera on top of the mouse is a good idea. We can imagine a software that draw the trajectory of the mouse using the data of the game and the mouse sensitivity. With the source TV, I think it's possible. And then we can compare the trajectory with the video of the player's mouse. If the trajectories are different may be something is going on. If de aimlock does'nt happened anymore maybe something is going on too.
What are they waiting for eliminate cheating (or suspicion of cheating).
Great video as always !
love me
Dom please
I love you
You all should love me
14 karkino
No-one likes your beard.
the really weird thing is the reaction of the pros to cheating accusations to other pros, is like in professional bicycle sport. They dont wanna be harsh on the others bc they do it themselves. They scam for a lot of price money, so pure hatred is the natural reaction like on every MM. If you look at tour the france, the second best used to be Jan Ulrich (an Icon in Germany) and he lost to Armstrong over and over again. After Ulrich got caught, Armstrong was like "nope, im clean", rest is history. So look at the insane guys on SK, Faze, Fnatic. If Tier 2 guys are really strong players and cheat and there is still someone much better you can be sure he is cheating
same shirt
b o y s
Grandma. what are you doing up?
+Heyday123 lmao
''never be sure about anything'' one of the most important rules of wisdom
wish you were here thorin
Around the KQLY and SMN time ko1n made a program for in-eye (128 tick) demos. Back than he posted the log data from the EPS games where smn got accused of cheating and he was able to show the difference between normal shots and cheated shots (the amount of ticks a cheated shot used to be was absurd low). He explained that from time to time such an outlier can occur but it is more like once every 5-10 maps and not 10 times in a half.
He said in a forum that he finished his program and it could detect more cheats based on in-eye demos but not a single tournament orga wanted to buy the program or let the players record demos.
From time to time he explains fishy clips with how and why they occur and he builds a cheat that works in the exact same way.
Maybe Valve is not willed to pay such a person enough money just for the E-Sport aspect of the game maybe Valve has another reason for not getting such a guy but in the long run it hurts the scene more than it will help.
Mouse cams could solve soooooo many problems on lan... Scream does it on stream so how hard could it really be?
No it wouldn't solve anything --> ruclips.net/video/mRWIzOYBi88/видео.html
I'm a developer and the only thing I'm sure is that clips can't be evidence. Between sever's communication errors, process and graphic lags, I don't find any clips I've seen impossible. But if I'm wrong or right should be Valve explaining why...
How to stop people from cheating? introduce them to law-breaking. Cheat at a professionel-level: Jail for approx. two years. That'll teach ém a lesson. ...Before calling me out for being a douche and what not, 'Perfect World' has actually made a similarity to this, and...So far? zero hackers baby.
meta What? You think cheating is as bad as rape and murder and people that cheat should go to prison?
Don't get me wrong, I despise cheaters and hate them more then everything else, but sending them to prison is stupid.
No, in fact its quite the brilliant solution. If strong rules (consequences) apply, then people won't risk their futures on something as utterly stupid as to have their mices programmed. You end up behind bars when you do something of the illegal kind (cheating is illegal) so I can really only see positive results. ...Whether you agree or not, is for you to decide.
meta It is an completely unjustified and unnecessarily harsh punishment.
Prison is to keep dangerous individuals away from society and to rehabilitate them to be reintegrated into society.
Cheating in a game does not harm society, therefore, people shouldn't go to Prison for it.
I think that you should get hardware-banned after getting banned 2-3 times on an account that was logged in on your PC.
I'd like to disagree for that matter of choice, prisons was invented with the primary thought of earning tax-free bucks. You'd be surprised of who that runs these heart welcoming cells. I do, however agree that it IS quite the harsh punishment, but it'll refrain them from ever doing it either again, or to begin with. Hardware bans just won't cut it. Valve has tried multiple of options, and the fact that almost 300.000 players got VAC banned in a mere month (which was more than the overall online database within CS:S) it really shows that people just do not care about the rules. IF we're to not take further action from this, then CS:GO WILL die-out, just like its former pals, and the eScene would no longer be worth catching up with. Rules apply if succeed shall be at hand. Rules gives us food on the table, and shelter for the cold winter. No matter what you think, I won't change heart of mind, although I do appreciate your ideas, but they're just not powerful enough to spread the message.
meta okay you convinced me, but I think cheaters should be publicly executed because then they will never be able to cheat again
Tournament provided peripherals would be great. Could also auction off and/or giveaway the peripherals to the fans after the tournament to recoup some of the costs.
Last time i was this early i wrote CLG was still good
clg was ever good?
CLG was good.
+CrispyGaming Nah comon m8 even with jdm they were average
Leo gaming Well semi in the major, they were like a top 10 team back then
+CrispyGaming yea i remember but even back then i always felt top 20 teams could always beat them such as f3 and gambit which were top 20 back then
Couldnt valve just creat some sort of contract for pro players, which says that its forbidden to cheat and everybody who gets caught, has to pay maybe 500k$ and if they dont sign the contract they are not alowed to play on big stages (esl and all the big leagues have to agree obviously.)
Respect Thorin.
i think using linux as the main os in major's computers would help lowering using cheats since most coders program for windows (.exe) ... ofc after porting cs go to vulkan
Just finished your video, don't care what you think of me. Good job, and thank you.
Fuck off Dan
Look it's the dude who accuses everyone of cheating.
Dan M. the guy who takes every shitty clip way out of hand
u dont know about cs that much
once upon a time when he had 2k subs he might of given a shit what you do or don't care about (actually if you know anything about anything you'd know even way back then he probably wouldn't have). Fortunately those dark times are behind us. Nevertheless im sure the extra 100 views for your channel that your super edgy comment will have earned you will be worth it.
I got an idea that would make sense. Why not valve recognize this problem and say "next time a pro player is seen to be cheating, they will be banned" of course if its their first "strike" itll have to be blatantly obvious. thing is you wouldnt remove all the pro players that do cheat in one swoop, because it would destroy the pro scene
Duncan, there's no one cheating at pro level (Top payed teams), people are just naive.
The crosshair placement and shit that sometimes seems shady its just timing, it has been since the beginning of cs.