Major Surprise From One of the Oldest Stars in Large Magellanic Cloud Galaxy
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2024
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Hello and welcome! My name is Anton and in this video, we will talk about a discovery of an ancient star in the Large Magellanic Cloud
Links:
news.uchicago.edu/story/scien...
Methuselah star: • Methuselah Is No Longe...
Supernova nearby: • James Webb Finds Impor...
LMC black hole: • Dormant Black Hole Wit...
Magellanic stream: • Updates About Strange ...
#lmc #largemagellaniccloud #oldeststar
0:00 Ancient star in the Large Magellanic Cloud 1:01 How we find ancient stars 3:30 Second generation star in LMC and its properties 5:00 Why it's special - carbon 5:50 History of LMC and how it all connects 7:10 Why this matters of astrobiology 7:50 Compared to Milky Way
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My boy Anton is relentless with these videos, never fails with interesting science shit 👌
You coulda left off the word shit.
@@carmenmccauley585 However, I didn't. I speak or type however I wish.
Y'know, I had not even considered "low galactic levels of carbon" as one of the Great Filters.
Intriguing...
We really don’t have enough info on extragalactic chemistry, but so far it seems like the differences between galaxies definitely can’t be ignored
I feel like Anton reeeally enjoyed saying "large magellanic cloud"
Who doesn’t?
The Magellanic Clouds are in the southern hemisphere. The name comes from a report by a member of Magellan's crew on his voyage around the tip of South America. They didn't have telescopes at that time so they must be fairly bright.
They are.
Coincidentally Fraser Cain did a video of the best things to see in the southern hemisphere just yesterday. Its at approximately 31mins in. It was his q&a254 show
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and my most favourite constellation (Indus) is in the Southern Hemisphere.
This is one of Anton's best videos. So interesting to hear about 2nd and 3rd generation stars and elemental differences among the galaxies. It reminds me of a study about 5 years ago in which the authors said that the Milky Way has very few stars with gold and that the gold on Earth probably came from explosions in a different galaxy (in the direction of the star Regulus) which has stars with high heavy metal contents.
Listening to Anton while meditating (just the stress relief, calming beginners thing, that people usually sit cross legged (hint: you can do this sitting & laying down too….shhhhh ;)…)).
Just is sooooo great
Assume a low-metallicity posture
I love meditating. In my opinion, meditation is the best medication.
If you’re listening to RUclips you’re not meditating, you’re relaxing or ASMR-ing.
@@Rishi123456789I’m pretty sure medicine is the best medication
Love your videos mate! Am always directing folks to your channel!
Wonderful as always Anton. Thank you. 🙂🙏
Thanks for passing this along Anton! I enjoy your style of presentation, and am enriched by your access to published papers I otherwise might not be aware of.
You can read the same research he uses to create his videos. Just follow the links in the description.
True brother. I agree with you. 😊
That is an interesting finding indeed. Always something to learn on your channel 👍
metallicity is the most metal term in astrophysics
rock on!
Kinda want it to be a band name.
As usual you have posted a video that creates more questions than it answers. There are so many tangents to the information you so kindly give us it's impossible to follow them all, so I'll keep watching yours, entranced by the beauty, magic and immensity of space.
Metal! Up the irons!
🤘😊
And the oxygens while you’re at it
We should always be prepared to acknowledge that new observations could lead to new understanding.
This has been the case for thousands of years. It's what humans do.
@davidhoward4715 what humans do quite often is assume a solution and fight hard to ever change their mind despite new data.
thanks for the information anton
Wow, that was great, Anton.
Really enjoyed this video😊
always amazing info
Some questions:
- Why are people searching for generation 3 stars, when they were ancient stars that only lasted a few thousand to a few million years? And how can we even search for signs of such stars?
- How many galaxies can we accuratly observe their chemical components?
- Hypothetically, couldn't even G3 stars have heavier elements due to the nuclear fusion within them? Why can't that explain the metallicity of stars that have 1/240m iron-H ratio like the one that was mentioned?
That's quite a surprising discovery. What would cause fusion reactions to differ so much, I wonder. Mass of the stars is the first thing that comes to mind, but it does make you wonder if there might be exernal conditions that contribute to what goes on inside a star.
The earliest gen stars would have been made almost entirely of hydrogen, helium and trace amts of lithium all produced in the big bang. After those stars died the next gen would be lower in elements heavier than h, he, li and so on and so on
@@limabravo6065 Yes, I know that. It doesn't explain why these stars would be lacking in carbon, though.
Absolutely, no truly isolated systems but to what extent and how accurately can we measure by our current means…
Oh and missing carbon🤔… Its harder but additional heat from other thermal body(s) may have fast tracked star(s) through the part of the CNO cycle where carbon would have been most generated usually. So a very tight cluster, close binary or inbound remnant at just the right time and elements can missed
@@MarsStarcruiser Yes, it would seem likely that a missed or a failed step results in not having the correct ingredients for the carbon generation. That does seem the simplest reason, and perhaps an answer to how that step was interrupted could be easier to find. It will certainly be keeping some scientists busy for a bit, I'm sure.
Thank you Anton, so not eve4ry galaxy may be capable of producing life, fascinating.
Great video thanks for sharing 👍
Not just supernovas made the elements. Kilonovas from neutron star mergers made the really heavy elements.
Ty for posting this before me. Also don’t forget radioactive decay, which creates some as well.
These days it’s mostly agreed that kilonovas do most of the work
Interesting information, thanks 👍😊
Thanks!
Extra galactic being detected.
Thanks Anton
If the LMC interacted with the Milky Way then some of its stars should be in our galaxy now, correct?
Yes; stars and star clusters in the Milky Way have been identified as likely originating in the LMC.
@@davidhoward4715 Would those captured stars be very low metallic, just like what Anton says is being observed in the LMC?
@@Steve-RichterOnly some of the stars in the LMC are low metallicity. It is also rich in dust and gas with many younger high metallicity stars. What the research being reported on shows is that there are low metallicity stars in the LMC that are much more metal poor than most found in the Milky Way.
Anton, you are the best!
Good Morning and thank you for another fantastic video. I am curious, do you know any record holders for the most metal stars? Do we know any maximum ratios a store could possibly have?
Makes you wonder what types of elements ( Eg metals) future generations of stars will form & the implications for the wider universe.
We've barely scratched the surface of the Universe & what little we know never stops blowing my mind.
Top man Anton & thank you
Evolution never stops !
@@malcolmhardwick4258
Anything heavier than helium. I just wonder if possible to predict in the future where that evolution may take the universe.? JWST has maybe found population 3 stars ( 1st Stars), interesting times my friend 🤔
Rite Anton Dude, Thanks for the heads up! TFS,GB :)
so, if I have this right
- about 2 billion years ago the Large Magellanic Cloud (LMC) [4th biggest surviving galaxy in our local group] barred Dwarf Spiral galaxy began to come to close to the Milky Way which started disrupting it.
- 200 million years ago the Large Magellanic Cloud (LMC) barred Dwarf Spiral galaxy & Small Magellanic Cloud (SMC) irregular Dwarf galaxy had collided or passed close by each other, tearing the SMC into 2 mini dwarf galaxies. LMC now shows off center bar due to both the Milky Way and the SMC near collision, and a messed up its one spiral arm so many call it irregular also. There seems to be a magnetic field and dust/gases stretching between the LMC & two smaller Magellanic Cloud dwarf galaxies from that interaction, as well as another quadrapole magnetic field in the LMC itself.
Now - Large & 2 Small Magellanic Cloud galaxies are being sucked of another tail of dust & gases by the Milky Way, as the 2 pull down the Milky Way’s thin disk in turn [making it look like a sombrero instead of a discus] because of their gravity - however there does seem to be a shield [the Milky Way’s own charged corona] reducing the Milky Way to pillaging less than it could from Dwarf Galaxies.
+2.4 billion years in future, the Large Magellanic Cloud (LMC) barred Dwarf Spiral galaxy and its smaller cousin satellite galaxy, the 2 Small Magellanic Cloud (SMC) irregular Dwarf galaxies, along with the LMC bringing its own 4 satellite ultra-faint/diffuse dwarf galaxies (Horologium I, Carina II, Carina III, and Hydrus I) - all will collide with Milky Way disks. Result: the size of our galaxy’s black hole should grow up to eight times larger and stars from the 7 joining galaxies, as well as those pulled from the Milky Way’s disk, should bulk up the stellar halo, create a star creation burst in the disk and increase the overall metallicity. [NOTE: the Magellanic Cloud galaxies are already INSIDE the outer halo of Milky Way, and are NOW pulling the disk so that the central bulge is slightly left behind with more stars in one side of bulge than the closer side to Magellanic Clouds.]
and BTW:
+ 2.5 billion years in the future Triangulum Galaxy/M33 (with its 4 suspected satellite galaxies) [3rd biggest galaxy in our local group], dancing around Andromeda may collide/interact, it is uncertain. Later M33 may merge with the Milky Way/Andromeda mix to form a new larger irregular galaxy.
+4 billion years massive Andromeda Galaxy [biggest in local group] also known as M31 (with at least 36 KNOWN satellite dwarf galaxies)(with its own magnetic field), will clip the Milky Way (with it’s about 50 satellite dwarf galaxies - it has more because we can see more), the smash-up will be slightly off-axis. [NOTE: right NOW the outer halos of the Milky Way and Andromeda are already touching/colliding.]
Calm down and hold on to your Sombrero...it's 2.5 BILLION years from now...in the meantime be happy you live in a carbon rich galaxy....
Did these older star's give energy & kick start the system's we enjoy today 🌞
Thank you
This is a bit off topic, but I don’t know how else to ask this question. I was watching the star Arcturus tonight in about 20 minutes ago. I saw a brilliant flash to the south west of it from my position. I was wondering if there’s anyway to see if that was one of those mini nova‘s that you’ve talked about in the past it was really cool I’ve never seen anything like that with the naked eye.
I think it happened around the 1:52 AM East Coast time
What would be really interesting would be to find some low mass Population III stars. It's thought they can't exist because without metals low mass stars don't effectively lose heat enough for their gas cloud to collapse but maybe in some weird cases streams of gas might collide to squeeze a low mass cloud that's pure H and He to form a Pop III red dwarf (momentum pressure making up for lack of cooling)
This makes me want to see a video on the makeup of planets in places where elemental availability is reduced.
Can’t wait to see the LMC and SMC for the first time ever in Oz/NZ this October.
What I don't understand is how / why all the matter in the universe didn't just collapse into a black hole at the start of the universe. Why did we get the big bang and not just all the matter collapsing into a black hole.
The other thing I don't understand, where did the matter come from at the start of the universe? Was there a before & what was it? I doubt there's an answer for this but it just bugs me not knowing.
So at this point, not only is rare earth a possibility, rare solar system a possibility, but now even THE GALAXY ITSELF might have a unique carbon composition compared to other galaxies?
There’s a fair few things about our galaxy that seem to be rare
Thanks Anton. I need a bigger telescope and a long trip to the southern hemisphere
The LMC is said to have about 30 billion stars and now some scientists pretend to draw assumptions from ONE specific object that shows unexpected properties...
Funnily enough it is about 25 times as probable to win the jackpot of the biggest European lottery than it is for this star to tell us much about a real average of star composition in that galaxy.
Ah yes let’s just ignore the outliers
@@oberonpanopticon Please let me know what the Sigma of 0.000005 % is - thank you.
Low metal star just means it formed from a low metal environment, not that it is old. A low metal star could form from a gas cloud that was just late to be nudged into star formation.
I think it is unfortunate that they didn't come up with a different naming scheme when population III stars were introduced, as these are basically the first generation, with population II and I being younger.
Then again I can understand that it is good to have room for population IV and higher, in case we find out that the big bang wasn't the beginning of everything and there are stars from before it 😊.
did JWST make any observations suggesting that the universe has stopped expanding or that it is not expanding as quickly as previously thought?
No.
could be a lack of early btype stars, they make a lot of carbon on surface layers that can get blown by winds, instead of nova
Lively and stimulating! This was very surprising to me. that carbon can vary so much. So much to learn from our own "little fellows".
Galaxies colliding must change the element mix in both, sort of like gene mixing in procreation. It seems the microcosm through microcosm processes remain the same throughout.
Could lack of a substance need for life less then conditions would create itself be a biosignature . Is something obsorbing it
Well these oldest stars have been wandering about for quite a while so they have probaby hit some supernovaremnants in their journey.
This has been my argument against ETs for some years, the metals issue. It would be interesting were we to been born when the age of the Universe is 26 or 52 billion years old when the elemental composition is even more metallic. What sort of lifeforms will evolve in a world with more iron, gold and uranium.
So large maghelanic cloud maybe only started coalessing far later than the milkyway and all of its stars are maybe mostly smaller, but gen 3 and 2 stars? Hence the very low carbon count? I mean, we must be missing something here. It's probably something totally obvious
What's being discussed here is the unusually low metallicity of the oldest stars in the LMC. The LMC on the whole is rich with gas and dust and has many very active star forming regions full of perfectly normal average stars.
So, not only is Phosphorus unevenly distributed in the Universe, but now also Carbon is too?
Wonderful Anton, maybe Alien Life? Me... I'M IN!!👽😁
If the composition of galaxies can vary this much then the mass per volume range can vary a lot too. How is this dealt with?
If the galaxy was quiet, with a dormient black hole, if ever, in the center, the star formation is slow.
Because Carbon is a product of star fusion, few old stars mean very little Carbon to play with. Nothing really unexpected.
It wouldnt have been dormant that long ago though, those galaxies are expected to be extremely active.
In the voice of Mr Smithers “Mayhap you’re right”
I thought supernovas were only responsible for some of the elements. The much heavier elements needed white dwarf collisions.
always wanted to know when a star goes supernova are the materials created and ejected in a particle form or are there actual solid masses in the nebula?
New T Shirt looking smooth. Better than the last episode. Looked like that one had been worn to bed and to work a few days straight.👍
But it’s useless to resist! 😅
Aren't all surprises unexpected? That's what I would have posted if I were pointlessly pedantic - which I'm not (very much).
Keep up the good work.👍
So our neighbor, this possible ancient galaxy is right next to us. That in itself leaves an unanswered question.
I am just an amateur astronomer therefore do not pretend I know anything. I just observe through my telescope.
Thanks again for an interesting video Anton Petrov!
Couldn't the contamination come from supernovas that occurred after the star was formed and thus the star formed not out of a supernova remnant but instead the metal contain came from elements blown into it from a nearby later supernova.
Sooo... Galaxies with possible undiscovered elements?
Could it be that this is actually a Type 3 star and its elements are a result of the star having swallowed a Interstellar object that contains these elements and therefore are now part of the stars current composition?
I don’t think we should assume that all organic life would or should require the same elements to form as we did on earth.
The key question is, can life form around any element other than carbon?
I understand the viability of the only serious alternative, silicon, has been questioned recently.
@@sirrathersplendid4825 I don’t know why we would assume carbon is necessary, we’re nowhere close to knowing that.
It t has been known for a while now that, for example, extraterrestrial life will not be based on silicon (Dr. Angela Collier [RUclips channel: acollierastro] produced an excellent video why.)
@@corymoore2292 - Carbon has properties that allow it to form the basis of a phenomenal variety of molecules. I don’t think there’s any other element quite like it.
or maybe we dont understand how old this stuff really is. Stars arent old enough to go supa nova to produce heavier elements
Thinking about a galaxy with not even the chance of life, so vast and useless, is much more unbelievable than thinking about life in our own
I'm feeling dumbfold. Stars are fusion generators , meaning the more heavy metals it has produced it should be older, but you said the opposite.
Please explain.
When you look a distance in space you are also looking backwards in time. The light you see traveled from that object light-years ago...
No start that could last this long should be this old, because first start should be bigger and fuse Iron and will not live a long life.
To get to a start that can live 13 + billion years should be many generations in advance, meaning that the universe at 13.5 billion years old would not have enough time to birth this star.
This means that the mother / universe that generated this by default must be much older than this, by a long way.
BFS. . .big formational stars. BHS. . .big humongous stars.
Our own sun is about 4.6 Billion years old
If they burn hydrogen and create helium, its hard to believe that older stars somehow would still have hydrogen left....
It makes sense that, being earlier generations, some star will have low metal content. But has anyone ever simulate the type of metal that could be found in later generations (meaning later that the sun's)? What element could be found elsewhere that we do not have here because of our star's generation? and if so, is there a way to search for them in the light spectrum?
can it ever really go past iron?
@@Lacter12Yes, because we have those elements. Most of those above Fe are expected to be made in the very last stages of a large star's life.
From what I understand, heavy elements, gold, uranium etc come from neutron star super nova.
It seems we are too quick to make assumptions based on what we find in the Milky way.
All bets are off in regards to what elements may be found imo.
I'm not sure how you could do a spectral analysis on elements that have not yet been discovered. Ie. Super heavy stable island elements .
Food for thought 🤔
@@Lacter12Yeah, in supernovas, neutron star collisions, dying giant stars, and other situations, it is just that iron cannot exothermically fuse with itself.
Remember that in astrophysics, even oxygen is a metal. Anything heavier than helium is considered a metal.
Yeah, but what about phosphorus? 🤔
Phosphorus got feelings too, man!
😜
Cool..another discovery that trashes half a dozen of our assumptions..
It takes 10 years of post-secondary university education to earn a doctorate in astrophysics. Stellar astrophysicists do not base their research on assumptions. New evidence is welcome and is used to fine-tune hypotheses.
How
I knew Kim Basinger wasn't from the Large Magellanic Cloud as was claimed in the movie My Step-Mother is an Alien. 👾😅
Super interesting - a potential new term in the Drake Equation, that relates to having enough carbon to support life. Of course we don’t know what the ratio would be yet.
You can not imply that the carbon formation rate is different just because a single observation from one of the 30 billion stars of that Galaxy cloud is different, or even imply that the laws of physics are somewhat different in another Galaxy. You will need a ton, or maybe thousands of independently confirmed observations just to propose that.
@@blogattacker 👆this, and also, like Anton says, what this really tells us is that the amount of carbon can be different in different galaxies. The carbon in others could be higher which is better for life.
@@blogattacker I'm certainly not implying that the laws of physics are different! Anton's video states that the LMC appears to be carbon poor in relation to the Milky Way, and those are the only two galaxies where we are close enough (as yet) to be able to establish that. Until that observation, we had no reason to expect that there would be a difference in the production of carbon, but now we know (or suspect) that carbon production can vary from galaxy to galaxy. That is new information and could dramatically affect the chances of life in those galaxies. Of course we need more information on many more galaxies before we can get an idea of whether it is the Milky Way or the LMC which is the odd one out, or whether there is a whole spectrum of possible results, hence me saying that we don't know what the ratio would be.
Is it Iscandar?
LESS CARBON, LESS CHANCE OF LIFE, HOW MANY MORE GALAXY`S ARE LACKING CARBON
Bang goes the Drake Equation. :-)
How does a low metallicity star last so long? Are they very small?
whats the size of this second generation low metallicity star?
I would imagine that population 2 stars would have to be K dwarfs or smaller. Maybe a really small OG. 😂
I’m wonder what the view of the Milky Way is from the surface of the moon.
These 'old' metal-poor stars in close-by galaxies and clusters puzzle me. Haven't these stars been fusing material all this time? Why would they still be so metal-poor if they've been fusing for billions of years?
It's one thing to see such metal-poor stars in galaxies billions of light-years away, since that's how old the light is that we're seeing. But from stars only 100,000 or so light years away? That means somehow these stars have avoided making metals for all these eons! That doesn't make sense.
Could it not be the case that they're YOUNGER stars that simply evolved from a primordial hydrogen cloud that collapsed into star-forming regions much later?
I don't have a degree in astronomy, but it has been a long-time hobby of mine to learn as much as I can.
From what I understand, stars will only start fusing heavier elements once there are sufficient amounts. Helium won't fuse into carbon and oxygen, unless there's a lot of it, and Carbon (which is the next thing the star starts fusing) won't start fusing until a lot of the helium in the core gets used up, and then the next phase starts when most of the carbon fusing is done.
Those phases past carbon burning happen super fast in stellar terms, which means the star is on its last legs.
Because this star hasn't reached that phase yet, those elements wouldn't be present unless they were present from an outside source.
@@eldersedai870But it must ALSO mean that this star has never interacted with debris from a supernova, which would 'contaminate' it with heavier elements. Basically, it's somehow been sheltered from interference of any kind all these billions of years, in spite of galactic collisions and many other events. The other unusual thing is that it's a small star. Most of the oldest stars would be large and with short lives, given the much greater matter density of the universe so long ago.
It has somehow lucked out on both these aspects of its formation, surrounded by stars with vastly more metals.
"Solar masses in mass" is redundant.
Couldn’t it also be seen as implying it is more likely that there is life outside of carbon based?
Can we really conclude that a star is 10 - 13 billion years old just because it lacks heavy elements? Maybe it’s a young star formed in an ancient pocket of space (a huge cloud with basically only hydrogen and helium ) that only very slowly contracted to the density required to form stars? I’m confused, did I miss something?
Occam’s razor probably
Did you speed this up in post? It seems... odd. More normal to me at .95x. Anyways - great as usual. Thanks!
Should anything be a 'surprise'? Before technologies evolved the variations of life forms found on earth where a series of 'surprises'. Some lifeforms where not believable. Duck billed platypus was incomprehensible. So what is different about the space that surrounds us, 'surprise' no, awe inspiring, yes!
The LMC may have been nothing more than an isolated gas cloud for billions of years so only now be at predominantly second generation evolution.
If they where created later than expected could that explain the shortage of carbon?
We (you tube fans) can't judge from a picture but it looks more blue than yellow implying bigger, hotter, therefore statistically younger stars.
Hi Anton you wonderful person :)
Q: It seams to me that there are alot of anomalies coming from JWST. Are these discoveries changeing anything in sciences, or is everyone still trying to fit the observations to their respective field theories and expectations? Is anyone looking at this holistically. Do we know what we got wrong down the line?
Maybe all of the iron and carbon were used up by the self replicating robots? ;)
How much of a planet's carbon is in living organisms? I think the Earth, for example, could have much much less carbon on its crust and still have about the same amount of living organisms. ?
The gamilas are up to something...
These seems to be Star month.
Now that humans can synthesize life utilizing non-organic elements, we can not assume organic molecules' signatures are the only markers of life in the universe.
What the hell is a "life utilizing non organic element"?
I listen to Anton whilst preparing lunch. Half of the time I’m not really listening.
❤️👍
The nomenclature should be the opposite - generation 1 should be oldest, I'm probably not the only one who thinks so...