Everything about Extruder Pre-Tension!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Zellerfeld is looking for a Head of Production in the US. Help to put 3D-printed shoes on every foot in the world: geni.us/ZellerfeldHoP
Virtually all 3D printers have adjustment screws, knobs, or levers to change the pretension on the filament in the extruder. Though how do you properly set it for your application, how can you get the most out of your extrusion system, and why would you really lower the tension for flexibles? Let’s find out more!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:27 Zellerfeld Promo
01:31 Extruder Pretension
02:27 How filament gets fed
06:50 Extruder Tension and Printing Quality
07:20 Extruder Tension and Flow Performance
11:46 Extruder Tension and TPU
12:25 How to handle Extruder Tension?
DISCLAIMER: Part of this video was sponsored by Zellerfeld.
#3Dprinting #extruding #science 
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Zellerfeld is looking for a Head of Production in the US. Help to put 3D-printed shoes on every foot in the world: geni.us/ZellerfeldHoP
This is probably the coolest ad I've seen on a RUclips video. It's relevant to the channel, will probably drum up lots of responses for the company from people that have actual interest in their field, and eventually someone is going to get that job, which they likely consider to be the job of a lifetime. Kudos to you and Zellerfeld.
I am slightly concerned on how this is being done, yes 3d printed shoes could be cheaper but would the quality be good and how long lasting shoes be made. Chaco's (A Sandal ) are made from rubber and adjust to the individual's foot over time as the ruber compresses resulting in long lasting shoes. Plastic is very different from rubber and if one layer breaks off it could mean the end of the that print, due to this putting them into ovens to further bind the lays would be necessary
We are a very small 3d printer manufacturer. What we advice to our customers is: loosen the tension screw, while holding the filament firmly not letting the extruder pull, run the extruder and tighten the screw slowly until the extruder stops grinding the filament and starts loosing steps with tick sound. This works for pla and enables the user to find the best grip tension.
heh, interesting. I have a slightly different method, but it would produce similar results.
@@NeoIsrafil tell us your method please!
In the interest of professionality, it's spelled "losing."
@@soundspark but only second the first one is correct from setting loose/ loosing
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that with cf nylon and petg
"Is your Bowden tube okay? Are your extruder gears clean and not worn down? Is the nozzle not blocked?" Rhythm in my head, "do your ears hang low, do they toggle to the floor, can you tie them in a knot, can you tie them in a bow." Ha ha. Keep up the great work. I always have your videos in the background.
I wasn't sure what that part reminded me of, now I do. Thank you!
You really need to start printing those exotic materials in a enclosure. It starts to wear on your sanity.
@@thai9503 My sanity was worn way before I took up 3D printing. Ha ha.
"Do your chain hang low
Do it wobble to the flo
Do it shine in the light
Is it platinum, is it gold
Could you throw it over ya should-a
If ya hot, it make ya cold
Do your chain hang low"
Jibbs
@@jbrou123 Are your standards real low
Did you go and vote for Joe
Even though he likes to grope
And his son was caught with blow
His tongue get's tied in a knot
Cause his brain is really slow
Did you vote for Joe
suggestion: for future videos with graphs where each line is a progression, could you color code them in a way with a clear progression?
example: 0 turns - green, 2 turns - yellow, 4 turns - orange, 6 turns - red, 8 turns - violet
it would make the graph so much easier to read at first glance
This guy manages to do research on things I didn't even think you could do this much research on. Great video Stefan, this has been very informative!
I learned this the hard way and took allot of time to actually discover this by myself two years ago when starting to print ABS and grinding like crazy... This video should be mandatory to every noob. Thank you Stefan for making all this content!
Very detailed video! We too have commonly found other factors like printing speed and nozzle temperature are to blame for failed prints. But it's good to see a more comprehensive view so extrusion problems can be better diagnosed.
Not to mention retract settings for that filament.
I removed the nozzle from my hot end, blocked the z axis so it could not move, then placed a postal scale under the hot end. This way I could directly measure extrusion force (at stall) and perfectly dial in my tension spring to maximize force. I found a 3x variation in force across the range of adjustment. And on one extruder I found the included spring was outside of the optimal range, swapping in a softer spring made a big improvement.
how do you find a softer spring?
@@Baldavier Usually by digging about in a big box of springs you have collected over the years.
"Plow ferformance" knocked me out, nice job, waiting for your next videos in impatience.
Stefan, i have been trying to setup my Ender 3 Neo for months, your 15 minute video helped solve a 6 month long dilemma for me. Thank you from Australia!!!🙌
I love your scientific approach to 3D printing things in such detail... Keep ut the great work Stephan!
Congratulations on the video Stefan. Interesting and informative as usual. Great to see the Bondtech LGX is the most consistent and delivered less than 5% under-extrusion up to 22mm^3/s with your setup, outperforming the remaining runner-up extruders in the comparison by almost 50%, and confirming our findings and the reason why we released it. Thank you.
Super stoked to test it on it's own!
This has been really helpful. I have had lots of problems with underextrusion and this has helped to refine a few things. I'm now watching a flow tower print successfully for the first time after adjusting the tension screw and pretension on my E3v2. Previously it would break apart after just a few layers due to underextrusion
Always strange to see how old technology comes back.
Early makerbot extruders use to have "fixed" idlers, and they were pretty common with reprap projects in that time period as well. The spring loaded idlers quickly overtook them as they dealt with the deviations in the filament diameter better, and the inconsistent hardness of the mostly ABS filament that was used in that time.
I really needed this video about six months ago. Lol. I took apart my Prusa Mini's hot end twice before realizing my tension was off. Sigh.
Keep up the great work!
This video is just perfect! Thank you so much for the enormous quality!
Mate, that was ridiculously well made and presented. Thanks a million!
You're welcome!
I was working on writing an article about this exact topic! You were faster than me :D
Good job!
Don't skip that! Mine's not perfectly structured and everyone loves a second opinion!
My rule was to run as little tension as possible. Enough so the filament did not skip or grind. Not too much to place undue stress on the parts and to deform the filament as little as possible. This method worked for me with Schlotz Bowden and genuine Titan and cheap Chinese metal MK8.
man you create such valuable content. Tyty.
Thank you for the information, I always wondered about how to set the tension and could never find good information on RUclips or the internet. Again Thank You.👍👍
AWESOME, so much research, thanks, as always.
Extruder tension is definitely one of those misunderstood things. I discovered it on my Prusa Mini running the bondtech extruder. After setting it up per bondtech's instructions, I had very inconsistent extrusions very underextruded on parts with lots of retractions, with some overextrusion in random other parts. After many parts checks and disassemblies, I tried lowering the extruder tension until prints were consistent, then continued to lower it until filament would grind, and used the halfway mark between the two. Also learned that making a mark on the tension thumbscrew makes it much easier to count turns.
Thanks for all these information... I had this issue in my CR10 and this video helped me understand the issue.🤝
Super helpful video. Thank you
Great info. Thanks for sharing this.
Brilliant video mate, I was dealing with this exact problem today and now I have some info to try and fix it tomorrow 👍🇦🇺😊
Got to admit, it's not something I ever thought about - but it's a setting I will look into.
Love this channel
another great video, thank you for your service mister
thank you for making this video!!!
Thanks a lot. Similar to you, I never cared much to try different settings and followed the extruder manufacturer's guideline. Glad to learn it was correct, overall.
Very good video!
Thanks for this investigation! The only time I've really needed to adjust it was when I stupidly printed with CF Nylon and wore down the knurled gear on my feeder. It took me awhile to diagnose the resulting under-extrusion, thankfully a little more tension made the feeder grip properly again.
Someone just shared your tweet to not review a Voron kit from Fysetc, not being a twitterati myself - I came here to applaud you. Good on ya!
Cool to see companies advertising positions on RUclips!
Another great video.
Man, I'm so glad this video exists. Bought my ender 3 s1 pro, everything's been perfect and I noticed I started skipping steps. Thought it was the clogs new nozzle. All kinds of things come to find out. Never touch the tensioner screw. It was on its loosest setting. Barely touching the filament
Also, I didn't have a method and answer your question. At the end of the video you taught me the method I'm going to barely have it touch the filament
Well done!
Good video. Thanks!!!
Thanks so much! I'm having filament grinding issues with my ender 3 v2, so will test out your advice!
This confirms what I've been experiencing on my work printers where the petg filament was buckling.
In my case it was a combination of the capricorn tubing causing too much resistance and tension settings. Replaced the Capricorn tubing with standard and I tighten the bondtech gears all the way down and then back it off 5-7 half twists.
Your video was so helpful. Relatively new to printing and you are fast becoming one of my most referenced RUclipsrs. Overture Matte PLA was getting chewed up on my Kobra Go extruder to the point where I was getting really bad under extrusion. I thought I had a clog but just turned out to be extruder tension. 11:58
I only print ABS, but few days ago i tried to print TPU, for 2 days i had ZERO success, i was literally crying with Rage...
Since then i discovered a few things wrong with the printer and fixed it, i was ready to try again with a few new ideas, but this video timing was PERFECT for me, i would never think about the tension and worse, i bet i would increase when i should decrease.... i will be keeping a close eye now. Thanks man.
Was wondering why the filament was just coming out
Thank you for the explanation
Your testing confirms my experience with the current generation of Prusa extruders: once you get enough tension for things to start working, it doesn't really matter how far past that you go. Two turns, six turns, it doesn't change much, even for flexibles. Even on the older Mk2 extruder designs that was still (mostly) the case, but on the dual-Bondtech style, for sure in my experience you can just set it and forget it.
Love these detailed videos! Great explanation as well as a perfect shot of how frustrating TPU can be!
Awesome video! I just always lowered the printing speed when printing with flexible materials even more than the printer should be able to handle because of buckling. I hope now I can print a bit faster. Thanks 😁
Very interesting. I experienced skipping with my original CR10S extruder. I replaced it with a BMG clone by Fysetc, two gears. I have not experienced skipping since. I have only used PLA. I apply light pre-tension but had not thought about the setting since the extruder is working. Good tips on what to try if I have problems in the future.
Thanks,
Dave.
I have an early I3 prusa reprap. With the big herringbone gear extruder. I took the tension springs out very early on and haven't looked back. Fixed gap tension is the way to go IMO. I usually tighten while extruding untill it skips, then go back a bit. I also reverse fillament to check deformation is present but not extreem as per this video.
Woooooo! Zellerfeld FTW!
Yeees.
Thank you so much for this. I have been struggling with new extruders and trying to understand how to set up the pretension, I just kind of over-tighten and have no idea how to reel things in.
I never gave extruder tension much thought until recently. Through mainly luck, the last time I serviced my MK3s I dialed everything in just right and I haven't had to tweak anything in 6 months. Never had such a long run before. Recently I went to swap filament and I couldn't get anything new to load. I eventually figured out that that was just loose tension but it took me a LONG time to even consider that option because I never think about it.
I used the default ender 3 extruder at minimum spring pretension, it was perfect for all materials. Upgraded to cheap dual gear extruder. The provided yellow spring was way too strong, so i used the old one and it's just perfect on minimum tension
I also found this, the yellow spring is much too strong!
Creality metal extruder (the red one) should always be unscrewed, all the way out "loose". It has such a powerful spring that at half pretension it grinds out of brute force. Even at 0 pretension it leaves its marks on the filament. So the advice to new ender users (i have a 5 pro) is inscrew that pretension if you want consistent flow rate.
I just installed the red extruder and can confirm what you are saying.
That sounds like a dream job.
Much appreciated
Worked with 3d printers way back when that had a flat bearing as the idler, and with the spring tension too high, it'd crush the filament into a somewhat triangular shape that'd cause a ton of drag or completely get stuck in the heat break.
Lowering the pressure turned out to help a lot of extrusion issues, but only if you unloaded the filament and discarded the crushed section first, otherwise it'd just slip of course. What led to the issue in the first place, was people adjusting (increasing) the tension during the print, as it started slipping, just making things worse.
I have an ender 3 pro, V2 and 2 pro and I've never used the cap that comes with the extruders. Upgraded each of them to metal extruders and get great results.
Nice video. I modified my ender 3v2 with the orbiter 2.4 direct drive extruder and it worked fine with normal filaments on almost all tensions. But flexible filaments would rly easy get stuck if the tension would be to high. Sometimes the tension screw was only a fraction in to it working reliably. This is properly because the spring used with screw for tension is to strong. i would recommend changing the spring.
I have found out that extruder tension affects also dimensional accuracy/flow when printing with materials like PETG and ABS at low layer heights 0.05-0.1 mm. At 0.2mm as long as there is grip there is no noticeable difference. Also some filled materials like PLA wood can break easier from high tension or grind because they have absorbed moisture (wood increases the rate of moisture uptake), grinding could be related to other factors as well. Finally some PP based materials can become permanently oval from high extruder tension and that can affect how clean and consistent corners and retraction/restart points are.
Amazing video as always, i'm gonna keep it aside to tune my newly recieved ender 5 plus ;)
Talk about perfect timing! I've just replaced the extruder on my Ender 2 Pro with the CR 6 SE extrusion kit to try out TPU printing. Previously I had problems where the extruder gears were skipping printing PLA, but whenever I tested using Motion > Extrude, it always extruded perfectly. Turns out I had to relevel my bed, my replaced nozzle was that close to the bed that it prevented normal extrusion during printing. Which goes to show, like you said, 95% of the problem is after the extuder! Now I realize... The new extrusion kit is covered... so I can't really see if it's skipping or not... Darn...
I use the Bondtech dual drive extruder on my Prusa MINI+ and haven't had any need to change the tension (not even sure if I can). Seems to work fine with PLA, PETG, and TPU so far.
On my MK3S with MMU I sometimes have the problem that the filament gets stuck when retracting when it is clear of the extruder gears but won't pass through the chimney due to deformation. Perhaps I will try to reduce tension to limit the deformation on the way out.
I use to make a long extrusion, with the lowest tension. Then start slowly tighten the tension, while i try to hold back the filament with 2 fingers, when i cant hold back the filament, thats were i leave it :D Then i know the extruder has a great grip. :D
Anycubic i3 Mega-S here with the stock "titan style" extruder that has an adjustment knob for spring tension. I usually just tighten it until I feel a major resistance increase against turning it further. Seems to be the sweetspot since I can see and feel the small indents the drive gear leaves on the filament.
Just as I was watching some (way less comprehensive) videos about troubleshooting under extrusion, YT suggested this one, as I've been a subscriber for some time now. Using adaptive layers in Cura (bare with me here) yields great results with less printing time, since it keeps detail where needed, and prints thicker layers otherwise. Looking at some prints, I noticed this weird strech mark looking defects in the areas with thinner layers, with a very distinctive pattern and clear sign of under extrusion. I fiddled with the tension adjustment screw for the first time today since I got my Ender 3 V2, about 4 months ago, and it was loose as heck.
I haven't tested it yet, but it makes total sense that thin layers (0.12mm) under extrude since the extrusion motor applies very little torque; looking at the sliced model in the flow view showed how little there was, and pulling the filament with two fingers was enough to stop flow completely. I'd imagine the spool exerts as much resistance, hence, under extrusion at thin layers. The flow variation worsens the effect, so when printing at 0.12mm without adaptive layers, it doesn't show up since flow is constant.
And all of that eureka because of this video. Thank you so much!
matches my experience with the ender extruders. I've had issues printing small parts with lots of retractions in PETG. The extruder at its default lowest setting progressively crushes the filament on each pass until it can't really push on it without it buckling.
Thanks!
You're welcome!
Hello Stefan, Thank You for doing all these tests to help us out
i had an idea I was curious about, If the part cooling fan blows on the part, heat sinks are usually cooled by air sucking the heat off the heat sink, if this fan was turned on our printers, would this not help with bridging or have some benifit
Great video. This might be off topic, but I love your Allen head screw drivers! I have been looking for drivers with a ball tip for years but can never find any. Could you point me in the right direction so that I could order some? Thanks.
Creality has a OEM direct drive kit. The plastic extruder on it doesn't have an adjustment screw but it has been a perfect tension imo. Has been doing great for almost 9 months now. I believe the constant broken plastic extruders I see online are mostly due to over tightening
I like to adjust the tension with the extruder detached from the printer and from the motor; I push a piece of filament trough the extruder, and I adjust until I notice an increase in friction and then decrease slightly so that it still passes smoothly, then to confirm I keep the gear still with a finger while with the other hand I firmly try to pull the filament.
I wish I knew this a while ago when I was working on my school's Ultimaker 3. That had tons of problems with it.
Troll comment below, beware:
I think this is not your best video topic so far.
But, sure enough, you don't let any stone unturned in the 3D printing world.
I've put a thumbs up as always.
I print a ton of ASA and TPU on my MK3s and MINI. With ASA I crank it down tight, with TPU I barely let it grab and then go another half turn. This has never failed me.
Very useful video. I have not really had much of a problem with "most" of my machines and I have 11 printers, all FDM as I print functional parts and very very few models. Mostly I do robotics with either Arduino or Raspberry. BUT one of my printers does give me issues if I pre tension incorrectly and it's sometimes an experiment. I've seen videos where the youtuber says for ABS fully tighten the tension screw and back off 1/2 turn, etc. My only printer out of my 11 that cause issues are my Lulzbot TAZ 5's. And I have 3 toolheads for them. I built an E3D extruder toolhead with 1.75mm filament and .4mm nozzle. The toolhead that comes with it which uses 2.85mm and .5mm nozzle and I also built a Moarstruder which uses 2.85mm filament and 1.2mm nozzle. Each of them give me periodic issues where filament won't feed and the extruder gears grind the filament and stops extruding. What a pain. Perhaps if I stuck with one filament type, and one brand of filament I would have less issues and with 11 machines I guess I could do that. My machines other than the Lulzbot are Snapmaker, Sindoh, and Vorons. None of them have issues only my Lulzbot's BUT when they work they are workhorses. Of course my Voron blows them away in speed but I'm seldom in a rush to produce. I think one issue is that 2.85mm filament is less forgiving. The thickness of it can make it tougher to pull from the spool when it's towards the end of the roll. 1.75mm filament is more flexible, 2.85 the end of roll filament wants to maintain the curve and the curve of the filament around the center of the spool that curve makes it harder to pull. And for 2.85 a drybox seems much more important. I do have many less issues when I am using the Moarstruder. If you check out the Lulzbots you will see that it's not a single spring system, it's 2 screws with springs on each so it is also important to have equal tension of each spring. By the way, seems that I have less issues if I error on a little too tight rather than too loose.
This reminds me of my sewing machine. The fabric is tensioned between the foot and the bed, and the teeth on the bottom push the fabric forward. But if you want to sew flexible/elastic fabrics, you need teeth on the top as well (like the new double drive gears) or it will strech instead of feed trhough.
I make custom PLA filaments...and often add biobased plasticizers....so I often perform pre-tension to compensate for the my smaller filament diameter....I'm actually writing a chapter on it now...would def reference your blog post article
I had the feeling that exchanging the gearwheel (mit schön scharfen metallzähnen am extrudergear) with a higher quality one had a significant impact on the stability of the amount of the extruded material.
I have noticed that extruder tension has an impact on flow rate. When I was calibrating E-steps on a Lulzbot taz 5, I was getting inconsistent results. In an attempt to fix it, I lowered the extruder tension and got very consistent results after that. Also the reduced tension increased the flow rate. I'm fairly certain that the stepper was not skipping. It's usually fairly obvious when the stepper skips, and the Taz 5 has an over powered motor which is geared down so it can produce an excessive amount of torque.
Loosening the tension on my spring fixed all my tpu jamming problems. Now i can print good quality at 100mm/s with a direct drive extruder on an ender 5 plus and no jamming
Late to post on this but a heads up if you're using an ender 3 with the aluminum extruder gear frame that you either need to cut your spring t find a different one since it is too tight
I have actually replaced the stock spring with a softer one to gain some adjustment option as the stock one is dead-solid and no matter how you adjust it it squeezes the filament to much.
Ive been blaming my printing issues on my filiment bieng too weak, in actuality my ender 3 printer for some reason came with the maximum spriny tension and was crushing my pla completely flat to the point where it looked like a tiny ribbon.
As a Flashforge user I don't have a pretension set screw and feel kind of confirmed by this video^^ They can use an upgraded plate with better path constrainment though.
My prusa extuders entrance is clugged up up, and do not know what to do with it.
I tried setting up at the highest temp settings, but still nothing.
Totally unrelated - the wiring setup you have for that hotend/extruder ... do you have any documentation or videos on it? I like the DC terminal blocks, they look nice and clean.
Interesting! Basically data to prove my experience over the last decade. Early on I just went with whatever the mfg said, but didn't take long to adjust by setting temp to the lowest print temp and adjusting tension until it gripped enough to not grind the filament at a roughly 50mm/s print speed. It has always served me well. PLA, PETG, every kind of flex, Polysmooth, you name it that method has always worked just fine. Granted I usually set it for PLA and it works on everything else. But as always YMMV I suppose.
I never touched the pretention over a near constant printing for 6mo on a creality 3v2 - then suddenly one fillament seemed to have underextrusion problems and thus couldn't even get the bed leveled, though if I manually cranked the extruder fillament would come out with proper stick.... so I adjusted it, and readjusted it and after weeks of nothing working (like you said, it could be practically any other problem) I've ordered the direct drive kit... so now I'll have spares to muck around with lol
In my case I changed from extruder given with the printer with the idler gear to voron m4 because I couldn't print high fiber wood filaments. The filament like that one from fiberology just slided and raising the temperature to lower the nozzle pressure was not the option because burning fiber blocks completely nozzle. So I changed the extruder, I still couldn't print with small nozzles bellow 0.4, 0.4 (depends how big the print was) but 0.5 and up prints without a problem.
It’s the only part that i have changed from my printer was the extruder (Anycubic I3 S) and now everything is working good i’m printing at 100mm/s and the quality is actually good
Great video like normal! Any chance you could do a review on the Diamondback nozzle?
too much tension can even block the extruder.
just switched my extruder yesterday when I saw the lever was broken.. I wonder if you could build a "closed loop" system that measures the actual filament movement with a separate sensor and compares to the motor rotation.
It just took me 3 hours to watch this video with distractions and all, but thank you!
Is it not better to compensate for the flow of material if it spoils your prints due to deformation? If we are not talking about flex material. On the Bowden extruder, the TPU did not press me well at all.
I have two Ender 3 printers. I dubbed them Beast and Rouge. Beast is the oldest one and I tossed all of the mods onto it including a cheap dual gear extruder. I noticed the spring that came with the dual gear was putting way too much pressure on the filament and would skip. I replaced the spring with the old stock extruder spring and works perfectly. However on Rouge I used the same dual gear extruder but in a direct drive setup and sure enough it skips like hell after five minutes of printing. Looking at the filament with the stiff spring I can see the filament is getting crushed and starts grinding. That's with the spring on the lowest setting as well. I tossed in once again the OG spring from the old extruder and with the lowest setting it's perfect, no skipping.
I have this kind of problem too. Extruder always skipping after changed the cheapo dual-gear kit. the kit came with the spring is way too strong. I changed back the ori spring which came from ender3-pro; work like a charm now...
My Ender 3 Neo hasn't printed correctly in 3 days. Feel like I'm running out of options to try. I only get a trickle flow that curls up right away and causes it to immediately stick to the brim and ruin the print. I must have stopped 3 dozens prints in the past 3 days. Not sure what to do, my wife said I could still return it since there's a few days left in the return period. It printed great up until last week. I cleared a blockage with a needle and was good for a few more days and now it's not working at all. I wonder if there's a better printer for a beginner out there.
i have a anycubic cobra 2 that doesnt even feed filiment would that be a tension problem?