"you didnt talk about the cull theshold notable." That's true, I missed that. The 25% cull threshold notable gives you: 37.5 cull vs white, 25 cull vs magic, 12.5 cull vs rare, 6.25 cull vs unique so about 1% more damage vs bosses and 2-3% more damage vs rares. Doesn't seem very good.
Good breakdown, thanks! Two quick notes: - The rounding down happens when Poe calculates a stat but the effective damage multipliers of those mechanics are not directly calculated. They are simply mathematically equal to a certain % of more damage. (10% culling strike is equal to a 11.1111.. % more damage modifier that is not explicitly calculated and therefore not rounded down) - You’re right about execute not being a great damage multiplier in general but it should be noted that we can have many 6-link skills in poe2. So you could have a dedicated execute skill that you only use once a boss is on low life, fully benefiting from the 40% more damage. For the rest of the fight you use another skill with higher effective damage support gems.
For me the biggest downside for decimating strike was that, since most grenades allready do fire damage, that you can't really make use of that in an ignite prolif build. If the enemy takes damage before being hit, that point sadly does nothing either.
Is it possible that the decimating strike and ambush could work together? Since when the 'Hit' hits it registers that the enemy is at full health. This means the crit chance would be active. Then the health removal would resolve, and finally the damage of the full health registered 'Hit'. I don't know much about the PoE math, but from an implementation standpoint this could make sense.
9:50 the Execute support is not useless, it still is 40% MORE damage on low life, so... when bosses (which there is crapload of those) get to the phase when they are most dangerous, this will give you 40% more damage. That will be better than having 10-15% more damage across the board (if u can even get that when looking for 4th or 5th support), because it's gonna be the last phase of the boss when u will want to smash it fast I'd bet.
@@uumas Yes, the bosses do get more moves/mechanics as they go past certain HP tresholds. That is a main reason why the the cull on unique enemy is 5% only, in PoE 1, you can do 20% cull on any boss (with Slayer ascendancy) and it is insane, you get in hardest phase and you just instagib the boss :D They sure don't want that in PoE 2. So... 40% more damage in that situation is still great.
It's not really 40% more damage if you compare it to another regular support gem which on average gives about 25% more damage, which applies for the entire health bar of the enemy. So it's 15% more damage on low life in comparison to another support, which is definitely not worth getting half or less of the damage multiplier for the rest of the fight.
@@AsmodeusClips but that's now how that works, as I mentioned, you are not getting pure 25% more damage on 5 supports, you are getting the true guaranteed 25% more dps on one or two supports and then it's with conditionals or some QoL or some other skill modifications. So I'm just saying that sure I would take 25% more dps across the board but that will not be an option, it's gonna be like do I take effective 10-15% from something like faster reload or whatever or 40% on low life where it matter a lot for boss fight.
I think it is very possible that we see 10 minute end game boss fights, if that is the case, you will have uptime on the gem on the last 35% giving 15% more damage, this could shave off valuable seconds from the fight if you are dying in the last 10% for example, very situational none the less thx for analysis.
Cheers Asmo. Honestly I was wondering about the effectiveness of Decimating Strike w/ Cull. I was leaning towards Weapon Master, Witchbane, No Mercy and Zealous Inquisition being better choices if you built properly, but I certainly didn't have your calculations. Thx for all the work. I look forward to more of your takes as EA progresses.
In POE1, I would agree that I wouldn't want to use Execute support because I play builds that mostly only use 2-3 skills and have few 6-link options. It seems POE2 encourages you to use more skills than POE1, especially with the weapon swapping changes they've made and the fact that we can have more 6-linked skills than before. In POE2, it is very possible for any build to make good use of this support gem in a way that is impactful. Also, because we can only use support gems 1 time in our build, we will have to consider other support gems to fill in the gaps. This is a different game and we're not going to be 1-button-andy's any more.
It doesn't make any sense that decimating strike would recalculate the low life value AND then count as damage for ambush. Most likely it is just damage as the preview did not change the size of the health bar, just subtracted from it. I agree there is anti-synergy in the node branch, but you should look at it as increasing time to kill, which is still one of the best node branches revealed so far in that regard.
It doesn't change the size of the health bar or recalculate low life. We are recalculating effective damage based on what percentage of enemy life is low life. With Decimating strike, you're not dealing damage to the top 17% of enemy life and thus we exclude it from the calculation of effective damage we get from damage vs low life enemies.
so does that mean that decimating strike and witch bane are a non-bo? e.g. the life removal from decimating strike won't be applied towards breaking concentration because it happens before the damage of the hit as you break enemy concentration on hit? This is making me rethink running witch hunter over gemling
I guess this depends if the removed life counts as you dealing damage in any way, despite not counting as your hit, but it's possible that it simply doesn't affect the concentration.
I don't think your assumption about hitting full life with decimate is guaranteed to be correct. The target has already been checked for a hit and their status as having full life has also already been checked so it's entirely possible for full life effects to trigger when the damages are applied. It's still the same hit after all. You might be correct, but we just won't know for sure until we test in game or confirm this with GGG. I see no reason NOT to use Execute on at least one skill in every build. This is not POE1, you can use multiple skills. Once you have a boss on Low Life it's 40% more damage 100% of the time for that skill, just don't use the skill until the enemy is low. Easy. The calculations make sense for the passive nodes since they are always on but they are proportionately more potent so I wouldn't say they are exciting but they do the job when they are most needed, against Bosses.
You can't get Decimating Strike without Pathing through Culling Strike on Witchhunter and there are no other known sources of Decimating Strike in the game so far.
do we care if we deal less damage to a white mob for example, if we can wipe the last 30% life compared to if we don't take cull and we can use full dmg from the low life dmg amp ? with cull, let's say the enemy has 100 full life, we start dealig more dmg at 35 life, we deal 5 dmg and the mob dies. without cull, we start dealing more dmg at 35 life and we stil need to deal 35 dmg to kill it. does it makes more sense with huge life pools ?
This was very much as you say in PoE 1, but PoE 2 is simply making the culling strike a bit more useful against non-boss enemies, making it an overall more useful stat. It's still probably most impactful vs bosses.
New players info here. This math is for people who have played poe 1 for more than 2k hours and fun for them is seeing the biggest number. I have barely just hit 500 hours in poe 1 and my 1st build in poe 2 I am going in completely blind build wise. Ill make a monk, give him a stick and kill until I get killed. Then I'll make another monk. Yes my 1st blind playthrough is HC, probably not ssf tho new trading looks sick.
@@InfoNympho-b9z ofc i did not watch it and I'm not referring to the video content witch might be good I just don't like the obvious clickbait that's all
We dont care about whites or blues mobs at all, the get just moved down, only bosses matters, and to some extend rares. Also, po2 is not poe1, there is not easy to get pure25% more damage supports. Math might be good, but reality not rly imho.
"there is not easy to get pure25% more damage supports." - Added Chaos - Added Fire - Added Cold - Added Lightning - Close Combat - Elemental Focus - Weapon Elemental Damage all grant 25% more damage and there are also better supports, like brutality, conc effect, multiproj, hourglass etc that give bigger multipliers. Thanks for the engagement bro, but try to not spread misinformation next time. Also getting a ~40% effective damage vs white mobs is relevant especially when playing with overlapping grenades that will not overlap outside of the center and the high cull threshold will increase your clear by a lot.
You are making very unfounded assumptions that would be reasonable for PoE1. In PoE2 you might switch to a different skill when your enemy is on low life, you might want to overkill some mobs with a skill supported by Frozen Vortex, there might be some other interactions that are not available when culling.
you didnt talk about the cull theshold notable.
"you didnt talk about the cull theshold notable."
That's true, I missed that. The 25% cull threshold notable gives you:
37.5 cull vs white, 25 cull vs magic, 12.5 cull vs rare, 6.25 cull vs unique
so about 1% more damage vs bosses and 2-3% more damage vs rares. Doesn't seem very good.
Good breakdown, thanks! Two quick notes:
- The rounding down happens when Poe calculates a stat but the effective damage multipliers of those mechanics are not directly calculated. They are simply mathematically equal to a certain % of more damage. (10% culling strike is equal to a 11.1111.. % more damage modifier that is not explicitly calculated and therefore not rounded down)
- You’re right about execute not being a great damage multiplier in general but it should be noted that we can have many 6-link skills in poe2. So you could have a dedicated execute skill that you only use once a boss is on low life, fully benefiting from the 40% more damage. For the rest of the fight you use another skill with higher effective damage support gems.
For me the biggest downside for decimating strike was that, since most grenades allready do fire damage, that you can't really make use of that in an ignite prolif build. If the enemy takes damage before being hit, that point sadly does nothing either.
Is it possible that the decimating strike and ambush could work together?
Since when the 'Hit' hits it registers that the enemy is at full health. This means the crit chance would be active.
Then the health removal would resolve, and finally the damage of the full health registered 'Hit'.
I don't know much about the PoE math, but from an implementation standpoint this could make sense.
you are absolutely right, it definitely should work. He must have made a mistake on that part.
decimating strike deals a random but fixed ammount of damage ... meaning no crits
@@aminbiazar2082 Nope.
9:50 the Execute support is not useless, it still is 40% MORE damage on low life, so... when bosses (which there is crapload of those) get to the phase when they are most dangerous, this will give you 40% more damage. That will be better than having 10-15% more damage across the board (if u can even get that when looking for 4th or 5th support), because it's gonna be the last phase of the boss when u will want to smash it fast I'd bet.
if bosses share similar designs to bosses in wow raids for example you are right when the bosses have phases with different mechanics
@@uumas Yes, the bosses do get more moves/mechanics as they go past certain HP tresholds. That is a main reason why the the cull on unique enemy is 5% only, in PoE 1, you can do 20% cull on any boss (with Slayer ascendancy) and it is insane, you get in hardest phase and you just instagib the boss :D They sure don't want that in PoE 2.
So... 40% more damage in that situation is still great.
It's not really 40% more damage if you compare it to another regular support gem which on average gives about 25% more damage, which applies for the entire health bar of the enemy. So it's 15% more damage on low life in comparison to another support, which is definitely not worth getting half or less of the damage multiplier for the rest of the fight.
@@AsmodeusClips but that's now how that works, as I mentioned, you are not getting pure 25% more damage on 5 supports, you are getting the true guaranteed 25% more dps on one or two supports and then it's with conditionals or some QoL or some other skill modifications. So I'm just saying that sure I would take 25% more dps across the board but that will not be an option, it's gonna be like do I take effective 10-15% from something like faster reload or whatever or 40% on low life where it matter a lot for boss fight.
I think it is very possible that we see 10 minute end game boss fights, if that is the case, you will have uptime on the gem on the last 35% giving 15% more damage, this could shave off valuable seconds from the fight if you are dying in the last 10% for example, very situational none the less thx for analysis.
Damn, was already leaning towards witchbane -> no mercy, but this seals the deal. Do you plan to do calcs for the other witchunter nodes?
Asmo what do you think of Blood Mage? I think it looks really crazy for Crit hit based skills. I keep teetering between that and the Elemental Sorc
Cheers Asmo. Honestly I was wondering about the effectiveness of Decimating Strike w/ Cull. I was leaning towards Weapon Master, Witchbane, No Mercy and Zealous Inquisition being better choices if you built properly, but I certainly didn't have your calculations.
Thx for all the work. I look forward to more of your takes as EA progresses.
In POE1, I would agree that I wouldn't want to use Execute support because I play builds that mostly only use 2-3 skills and have few 6-link options. It seems POE2 encourages you to use more skills than POE1, especially with the weapon swapping changes they've made and the fact that we can have more 6-linked skills than before. In POE2, it is very possible for any build to make good use of this support gem in a way that is impactful. Also, because we can only use support gems 1 time in our build, we will have to consider other support gems to fill in the gaps. This is a different game and we're not going to be 1-button-andy's any more.
It doesn't make any sense that decimating strike would recalculate the low life value AND then count as damage for ambush. Most likely it is just damage as the preview did not change the size of the health bar, just subtracted from it. I agree there is anti-synergy in the node branch, but you should look at it as increasing time to kill, which is still one of the best node branches revealed so far in that regard.
It doesn't change the size of the health bar or recalculate low life. We are recalculating effective damage based on what percentage of enemy life is low life. With Decimating strike, you're not dealing damage to the top 17% of enemy life and thus we exclude it from the calculation of effective damage we get from damage vs low life enemies.
@@AsmodeusClips Oh I see what you were trying to get at now.
ahh.. path of excel.. its starting
so does that mean that decimating strike and witch bane are a non-bo? e.g. the life removal from decimating strike won't be applied towards breaking concentration because it happens before the damage of the hit as you break enemy concentration on hit? This is making me rethink running witch hunter over gemling
I guess this depends if the removed life counts as you dealing damage in any way, despite not counting as your hit, but it's possible that it simply doesn't affect the concentration.
Thank you for doing all the math for us mortals!
I don't think your assumption about hitting full life with decimate is guaranteed to be correct. The target has already been checked for a hit and their status as having full life has also already been checked so it's entirely possible for full life effects to trigger when the damages are applied. It's still the same hit after all. You might be correct, but we just won't know for sure until we test in game or confirm this with GGG.
I see no reason NOT to use Execute on at least one skill in every build. This is not POE1, you can use multiple skills. Once you have a boss on Low Life it's 40% more damage 100% of the time for that skill, just don't use the skill until the enemy is low. Easy.
The calculations make sense for the passive nodes since they are always on but they are proportionately more potent so I wouldn't say they are exciting but they do the job when they are most needed, against Bosses.
you are the boss! huge work! i like your channel, advices and more! Thanks!!!
What about the math of Execute support with Decimating strike, but not using cul?
You can't get Decimating Strike without Pathing through Culling Strike on Witchhunter and there are no other known sources of Decimating Strike in the game so far.
do we care if we deal less damage to a white mob for example, if we can wipe the last 30% life compared to if we don't take cull and we can use full dmg from the low life dmg amp ?
with cull, let's say the enemy has 100 full life, we start dealig more dmg at 35 life, we deal 5 dmg and the mob dies.
without cull, we start dealing more dmg at 35 life and we stil need to deal 35 dmg to kill it.
does it makes more sense with huge life pools ?
This was very much as you say in PoE 1, but PoE 2 is simply making the culling strike a bit more useful against non-boss enemies, making it an overall more useful stat. It's still probably most impactful vs bosses.
how about stacking damage on low life enemies? but i'm thinking it's still terrible
that's 2 small nodes that give 35% more dmg on LL when you get decimating, so 70% right? (most likely but not confirmed)
said that all nodes and gems are viable my ass
more like, don't get baited by content creators that have not played the final build
very helpfull, thanks
New players info here.
This math is for people who have played poe 1 for more than 2k hours and fun for them is seeing the biggest number.
I have barely just hit 500 hours in poe 1 and my 1st build in poe 2 I am going in completely blind build wise. Ill make a monk, give him a stick and kill until I get killed. Then I'll make another monk. Yes my 1st blind playthrough is HC, probably not ssf tho new trading looks sick.
bro are we already theorycrafting the game before we get a chance to explore and enjoy it? :)))))) I hate this desperate job.
great info
How can anyone be baited if noone played the game?
Looks like you did not watch the video at all because he explains how thoroughly. Literally facepalmed reading this.
Future tense
@@InfoNympho-b9z he could be completely wrong.
@@SargentD4 as far as I can tell the math checks out
@@InfoNympho-b9z ofc i did not watch it and I'm not referring to the video content witch might be good I just don't like the obvious clickbait that's all
why not sharing the sheet ?
merc looks so boring to me idk.
We dont care about whites or blues mobs at all, the get just moved down, only bosses matters, and to some extend rares.
Also, po2 is not poe1, there is not easy to get pure25% more damage supports.
Math might be good, but reality not rly imho.
"there is not easy to get pure25% more damage supports."
- Added Chaos
- Added Fire
- Added Cold
- Added Lightning
- Close Combat
- Elemental Focus
- Weapon Elemental Damage
all grant 25% more damage and there are also better supports, like brutality, conc effect, multiproj, hourglass etc that give bigger multipliers. Thanks for the engagement bro, but try to not spread misinformation next time. Also getting a ~40% effective damage vs white mobs is relevant especially when playing with overlapping grenades that will not overlap outside of the center and the high cull threshold will increase your clear by a lot.
You are making very unfounded assumptions that would be reasonable for PoE1. In PoE2 you might switch to a different skill when your enemy is on low life, you might want to overkill some mobs with a skill supported by Frozen Vortex, there might be some other interactions that are not available when culling.
How would this guy know his math is right ? The games not even out yet. The mods could stack additive rather then multi
GGG is always very deliberate with wording.
Increase = multiplicative
more = additive
@ a lot has also been simplified so I guess we’ll find out on Friday
What are you even talking about? I'm not talking about anything stacking in any way. You seem confused :D
@@AsmodeusClipsexactly, you’re talking about them multiplying where they could stack. Who knows, games not out yet.
D4 in name checks out