Was USS John F Kennedy Historically Significant and How Does the Navy Determine That?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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In this episode we're talking about the navy determines which ships were most historically significant.
To look at the navy's evaluations:
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HMS Hood would get no for question 1, 2 and 3 but number 4 would be a yes given the combination of armour, speed and firepower that she had and question 5 would be a yes as empire cruise
Could yall do a video about the Russian museum ship bespakoyni. she’s a Sovremenny class missile destroyer
@@Knight6831 Hood would be neat to see and really the ultimate example of the battlecruiser, but other than being the largest warship in the world for a time, her most notable historical event is being sunk spectacularly...
You have the Empire Cruise would be considered a historically significant event
Out of the stuff on Hood that would have been preserved if it had not sunk and survived the war is the ship's bell given it is as far as I'm aware, the only ship's bell from the 19th century still in existence
That was a super interesting video. Thanks!
The Kennedy would have been worth preserving, simply for being the best available example of a Cold War Super Carrier. She was a modified Kitty Hawk. The last conventionally powered carrier. She would have been an ideal Cold War museum ship. And probably the only way the public could ever have been given ready access to the shear scale of the Super Carriers.
It's is a crime.
Enterprise (CVN-65) is a better choice, as the first Nuclear Powered Carrier and the only one who served the ENTIRE cold war. To bad these criteria came too late to preserve CV-6.
@@michealfeeney8920 CV-65 Enterprise was never going to be an option for a museum, because it was the first nuclear carrier. Too much would be required to strip out the reactors.
@@andrewtaylor940 A counterpoint, Andrew, is that such work would STILL need to be done before the remaining Hull material could be sold for scrap. Therefore, since such work needs to be done REGARDLESS, why not do it in a way she STands as a Memorial to not only those who bore the name before, but (especially if you a fan of Star Trek) Those who will follow?
Or are you, perhaps, considering that all that irreplaceabloe material be shot forever into a stellar body or burried under some salt dome?
Yeah one supercarrier would be a nice cold war memorial, especially the JFK. It's not likely that we'll see many more Navy ships disposed of as museams.
I think we all agree The two ships that should have been saved was Enterprise CV6 and Enterprise CV 65. (I understand why CV 65 wasn't saved had to take too much out because of the reactors)
Let history never forget the name... Enterprise 👍
I get sad every time I think of how CV6 wasn't preserved. If I could change one thing in history, it would be that. Likely not a big enough event for the world as we know it change, but certainly an event that would make many people happy.
Using the criteria from this video I do believe CV6 would have been saved for future salute of the sacrifice of WW2 veterans and their families while showing the futility of wars throughout history.
@@johnfowler6600 There was an effort made by Admiral Halsey to try to save her. Unfortunately even the "Bull" couldn't raise the money to do it.
@@dgansz705 doesnt really outclass CV-6 being the highest decorated warship in US Navy history. And I dont think Bunker Hill took the most damage in total without sinking. Not like there is an official score board anyway. 😅
I think that this highlights just how remarkable it is that all 4 Iowa class BB's were chosen to be preserved as museum ships. Even just 1 would be great.
I think the Mighty Moe should be sitting at anchor just off Maui. Food shelter and good water at a safe distance for a thousand families. Yes, they're fighting days are over. but they can still serve. Wildfires, Volcanic eruptions, no veteran ever looked forward to being useless.
@@dwaynentinabunt1200 No, the Missouri is to significant to be anything but a museum ship. That is the ship that the japanese signed the unconditional surrender of WWII. And old ships need to much maintenance of the hull to use as you would like.
The only reason all four were preserved was because all four were commissioned into the 90's, with an expectation that they may be recommissioned in the future. I believe that may still be the case, although feasibly that is no longer so.
Kennedy was originally designed to be nuclear powered. She would've been a sort of technological intermediary between Enterprise and Nimitz. While she was ultimately completed with conventional power, her engineering spaces being laid out in a similar manner to Nimitz could be a result of this design decision. This is actually the reason her island is so different from the other Kitty Hawk class ships, her funnels had to be incorporated to fit within the available footprint after the decision was made to proceed with a conventional power plant.
Thanks for validating the original power plant design intent for 67.
There is precedent for using a conventional analog to a nuclear powered ship. One of the reasons that USS Blueback (SS-581) was preserved was because the Barbel Class were conventional twins of the Skipjack (585) class SSN. They 580 class were identically equipped to the 585s forward of the engineering spaces. So you can get a feel for what the first operational Albacore hull form SSN was like. She also had a very innovative engineering plant in her own right. Electric motors were always driven through the battery. When under diesel power the motors ran off the battery float instead of a generator.
The flight deck of the JFK/CV-67 is also closer to the Nimitz-class layout. For all intents, it's a near-clone. It's more angled and I think slightly more acreage than the earlier KH-class ships with the exception being (probably) Enterprise/CVN-65 which is longer.
The JFK was shorter in length than the preceding Kitty Hawk-class carriers but higher gross tonnage with a more angled, "less pointy" appearance to the flight deck.
The Kitty Hawk/CV-63 I would still class as the first "modern-definitive" aircraft carrier because of the flight deck/edge elevator layout.
Oh my goodness, they REALLY SCREWED UP the flight deck elevator layout on the earlier class supercarriers (Forrestals) and most of the WW2 refits that received angled decks! The Coral Sea was the first refit that got it nearly right with respect to the edge elevators. She was the first refit or carrier built with the port edge elevator outside the landing strip zone! None of the Essex-class angled deck refit or the first 2 Midway refits could use their portside deck elevators during most flight operations because of the constant landing cycles! Midway eventually repositioned her portside elevator to the useful layout but FDR never received that modification because of refit budget cuts.
@@AvengerII Look at the hangar deck/elevator layout before the angled refit - that is why the elevator was left where it was, it was cheaper and they hoped they could work around it. Turned out experience showed it was a big problem, so they had to change the hangar deck layout to move the elevator. Bad application of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN 8 REACTOR SHIP,,,3MMR...
I served on the Kennedy from 72 to 73 the the V2 division when she was still CVA67 She will always be historically significant to me.
We had both the Saratoga & Kennedy here at Mayport. There was a big push to save the Saratoga here in Jacksonville as a museum ship, but the cost was more than could be dealt with. I would have liked to have one of these carriers saved, but again that will take a lot of money. We did get last year the USS Orleck DD-886. That is a great addition to our city. PJ
I was in JAX a little earlier when they had the Sara and the ForestFire. Then when they retired the Forestall they moved the JFK. Sadly, there was no way the Navy had the budget to turn Mayport into a port that could support CVNs so that was the end of that. Jax Beach was jumping when both carriers and their support ships were home. The reverse was certainly true when everything was at sea. Jacksonville was a much quieter place when not only the ships but their air wings were deployed.
My wife’s grandfather served on the USS Orleck in WWII. One of our regrets is not taking him to see it while it was in LA before he passed
@@Bill_N_ATXex Forrestal sailor here who served on its 20th and 21st deployment. No thumbs up for the Forrest Fire slur. Forrestal went through a similar process that began in 1993 and ended with its scrapping in 2015. Historically, Forrestal was present for the Malta summit in 1989 where the Cold War was officially declared over. If FID which was the first super carrier designed to support jet aircraft wasn’t saved then no way JFK will either. The similarities to the Nimitz design also make it more likely for it to be scrapped as if it were made available for international public visitors it would allow foes to disseminate weaknesses that could be exploited and be used on a Nimitz class carrier.
One of my old Chiefs told me, the Navy takes the ship's bell so that a link can be maintained between the ship and the American people.
I think it would be interesting to go over the CVN-65 Enterprise since I see it has a report from 2012 and I am sure a lot of historians considered it quite significant.
Actually there are a lot of interesting ships on the site, including the USS Los Angeles, the USS Forrestal and it seems the Iowa has a report as well.
It is unfortunate that these rules for historical significance were not in place when the navy decided to scrap the USS Franklin- CV-13, in 1966. The Franklin had two Congressional Medal of Honor recipients - Donald Gary and Joseph O'Callahan. The Navy should be compelled to name its next carrier after the Franklin for the sacrifice her men made on March 19, 1945, when 832 of her men were killed in action.
And she was in beautiful shape, fully restored in ww2 condition...sigh.
Awesome! My father served on the JFK as a chaplain 20-ish years ago.
I was checking that ship out in my boat. It is massive and amazing. My grandfather was one of the engineers who helped in designing those carriers. Also, my brother in law was on that ship when it 1st came to Philly and that's why he met my sister. So there are a few things that make this ship personal. It is too large and needs too much work to even be ok
And where would they dock it? The museum ship market is oversaturated with carriers and battleships.
@@gregorywright4918 literally the only thing they could do is leave it where it's at. They need to empty the Navy Yard anyway. All of the ships in the will absolutely never be used again. There are a couple that could make decent museums and bring the rest of the local ships to the Yard and make it a giant museum. The amount of naval history that came out of that Navy Yard is unmatched. It built some the greatest ships to ever sail for our Navy. There enough left to do it too. It makes too much sense so the City would never do it 😂😆😂. It's a shame.
I think it would be fun to hear about what ships had the most yeses if assessed by that document, and maybe even what ship had the most yesses but was still scrapped. Those both have to be interesting stories!
Well the Nimitz went back in time and returned. Her F-14s even shot down a couple of a couple of AT6-Tex... er Japaneses Zeros! Surely that counts as being historically significant! Jokes aside, I do hope one of the super carriers becomes a museum.. despite the challenges/cost in doing so.
It would have been good to keep one of the Kitty Hawks as a museum, but I don't see that JFK was any more desirable than the others. America (CV-66) was also designed as a nuc. With her rolled steel sponsons and unique island arrangement, she was the best looking of the class. I was lucky enough to get over 100 traps on her plus 7 each on Kitty Hawk and Constellation to go with 700+ traps on 5 Essex class boats, Forestall, Ranger, Coral Sea and the Big E.
So, the Forestal met some of those criteria.
-First of it's class and innovative in design.
-Socially and historically significant for her participation in Vietnam and her unfortunate fire.
Ryan. One might conclude that the Battleship New Jersey's presence in the Vietnam war was historically significant... She was the only Battlewagon there and her presents was so significant that the North Vietnamese would not talk peace until she was withdrawn because BB 62 scared the crap out of them!
I was fortunate to receive a tour of the John F. Kennedy when she was in for her SLEP overhaul in 1995 at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. She was the last Carrier overhauled before the Yard closed in 1996. She is the only Super Carrier I have ever visited, a most impressive ship with the hanger deck being 40'-0" in height. Our tour group included a member of President Kennedy's security detail and a former Navy Senior Chief Petty Officer. I was able to photograph Iowa and Wisconsin from Kennedy's flight deck as the two Battleships were moored together, probably the last time two would be moored side by side.
It may be a twisted look at significance, but I find it significant that the Iowa class were the *last* of the US battleships. That may sound like a negative, but it is very historically significant - it is part of the markers to a significant change in our times. Being the last is almost as significant as being the first and probably carries more weight with our collective feelings about a vessel.
I worked on a job onboard USS Kennedy back in 1998. One of the neatest places I have ever seen is the Captain's Suite onboard that ship. I had to pull some cables through there. The suite had beautiful wood paneling and replicas galore...JFK's rocking chair, Oval Office carpet from his time in office, a miniature bow sprit of the vessel that Kennedy's ancestor sailed on from Ireland when he immigrated to the US, and a few other things. I was told that the wood paneling in the suite was the only authorized use of wood onboard a US Naval vessel (other than chopping blocks and the teak decking on BBs, I suppose). It was a museum unto itself and should have been a good justification to keep USS Kennedy as a museum ship.
Thanks for sharing the memory. Such a damn shame she wasn't preserved.
You would want to do it an appropriate time, but you could do the USS Cole. I'd also be interested to hear this standard applied to USS Pueblo, imagining that somehow the US got their hands back on it.
As the country who operates more Carriers than every other country who operates carriers combined, I feel these late conventional ships are too close to the winning formula that we use to currently design and operate modern super carriers. Between ship construction, equipment layouts and routing, damage control systems, and basic ship operation and handling, we would be educating our enemies as much as we would the American public. Theres no restrictions on who can tour a museum ship. Midway is as good as it will get for a museum ship as she is a ww2 design, and not much to be learned from her military wise being a late 30's early 40's design, versus Kennedy which was launched in 67 and has everything we learned about trying to keep a ship afloat from ww2 and Korea and then some put into her design. Her sister ship USS America was used for live weapons testing and took 4 weeks of ordinance tests before we had to scuttle the ship as she did not want to go down. We dont need to teach the chinese how to build a ship that can take hits for weeks with no damage control party.
They have some of the information already. They scour the web, and do plenty of research. Not only that, I'm sure the democrats have give or sold plenty of secrets to them and Russia already.
The Chinese don't need a museum supercarrier to figure out how to build one for themselves. They're well on their way as it is
It's a shame "historical or culturally significant events" did not apply when Wasp was retired. Her role in the Space Race as a recovery ship was pretty singular (and it would have been difficult to hack out the deck around all the painted-on boot prints, too)
Indeed, many significant ships got turned into razor blades before preservation rules became better. The USS Oregon is one of those almost cases... *sigh* a pre-dreadnought would have been nice, the Mikasa ain't much anymore
I'd add a sixth Criteria, which could theoretically have saved Kennedy: Is the ship the last existing example of its "kind" of ship ? IE the last "Super carrier" or the last "dreadnaught" or the last "all-gun cruiser"?
"Kind" here does not mean class or subclass but also doesn't necessarily mean type/hull code
Indeed! The fact that the Navy let all of the supercarriers go to the scrap yard is such a dreadful choice. A huge piece of history is rendered inaccessible thanks to the navy being cheap, nothing else.
Hey guy I asked you to do a video on the last great combat support ship. The Sacramento AOE - 1. First of it's kind. It combined a oiler with a ammunition ship in one . I believe the first keel was layed down in 1963 and was commissioned soon there after. We carried 9.9 million gallons of ship fuel and 2.2 million gallons were of JP -5 aviation fuel. Shout out to the 4 ships belonging in her class. 795 feet long and we were a floating petrol station and supply ship for the 7th fleet out of Bremerton Washington. Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.
Don't forget they would also haul ass! sacremento, camden seattle and detroit!
@@wlogue: If my memory is correct, they used engines from the Alaska Class Large Cruisers, possibly from Hawaii, which was never completed.
It was a thrill, back in 1988, when the USS Kennedy came to Boston. I remember going aboard, and going up to the flight deck on the aircraft elevator. For some reason, we had to leave suddenly, and a crew member gave us instructions on how to take the stairs. I remember some sailors being surprised to see us, and we definitely got lost, but someone must have helped us out. That thing was absolutely immense. Quite a thrill for an 8 year old.
I'd be curious to hear another discussion of Enterprise 65; it certainly checked many of those boxes and while it was understandably not feasible to preserve it entirely, I'm sure the naval history folks had their hands full deciding what they could and should save from it.
Something to also remember, her reactors are also 50 years old. It makes me sick as for what the DOD waste resources.
One of my friends worked on Big E, those technicians called it mobile Chernobyl, 8 reactors of 6 different designs just a mess waiting for a place to happen. The pertinent design drawings for operation filled a space bigger than the officers wardroom! I understand why it could not be saved, but that stands we have seen the last capital ship as a museum!😢 ❤
USS Forrestal CV 59, first super carrier !
They say it was historically enough. I would say there are some museum ships that doesn’t have as much history as the Kennedy. My main argument is it is the only super carrier still available to become a museum. Some say the midway is but it was converted to have a angle deck and not originally built that way. No other super carrier will ever be a museum because of it propulsion plant. And the Kennedy does have lots awards and battle time and I believe was the only carrier steaming when the calendar flipped to 2000. She was the first on the east coast to carry the F14’s over seas, and during the gulf war flew more sorties, and dropped more ordnance than any other carrier. Not bad for a oil burner. Also was the first carrier to have 10 thousand arresting gear landings in a six month deployment.
Iowa turned a turret! it can be done! Now we just got to get one of New Jersey's turrets trained on Philadelphia for some meme pictures! The Challenge has been thrown, it can be done!
At first I thought not another computer box ticking exercise , but I suppose you have to judge these things somehow and the process does allow arguments to be considered .On the subject of suitably for a museum the material condition should be important as it will be subject mainly to the efforts and resources of volunteers to keep it in presentable condition . Certainly most of our preserved ships owe their status to luck and individuals efforts to save them .
Just gonna throw in that my dad was stationed on the Kennedy for his last few tours before he retired around 85 or so. He loved that damned boat. I don't remember when it was, but I was under 10 years old when we toured the USS Glover when he was stationed on it before the Kennedy back in the 70s.
He did mention that one of the weird things they did on the Glover was test an experimental propulsion system made from "ironwood". He said it was similar to the fictitious drive used by the Soviet submarine in "Hunt for Red October", FWIW.
Dad passed about a decade ago, but he would have been tickled shitless to see the Kennedy name passed on to a new ship. o7
Godspeed, old man! We miss you.
Nuclear ships have a hurdle to becoming museums because of the reactors and Nautilus seems to be the exception, maybe because it is a small ship and repairs after cutting out the reactors are manageable. Also there hasn't been a lot happening on the oceans since the nuclear vessel to even reach the fame of many bit players in WW1 or 2.
It's a slippery slope. Ships like Nimitz ( movie star for Pete's sake) then again DOD didn't hesitate to Nix Nevada.
Russia (for all the wrong that society has) has made a nuclear powered icebreaker into a museum ship. The reactor is intact and not removed.
Don't take as gospel that the reactor needs to be removed for a ship to become a museum. As long as all the fuel is removed and the reactor decommissioned I see no issue with leaving it in place
And we’ve seen through accidents with various Russian nukes (K19, Chernobyl, etc) how trustworthy that really is.
@@triandfit1 if a reactor has been completely deactivated and the nuclear fuel rods removed, then there's no way anything could happen.
@@B52Stratofortress1the ship is on public display, and a terrorist could turn the reactor compartment into a nifty dirty bomb.
My brother and brother in law was both in the navy my brother was on the USS John King ddg3 and my brother in law was on USS John F Kennedy and I was blessed to be able to tour both ships when they was still being used and it was amazing standing on that flight deck and walking the hangers below it was awesome I think they made a barge out of the John King and I was already hoping they'd save the Kennedy.
I forget about these videos, and then time passes and they attract me again. I forget that I have seen them before, but then I see a title and it's about a Battleship...so it draws me back in.
Tonight, I ran across some older videos, as well as my 2 year old comments under them. Then there are these new ones.
I can see from my own old comments that I have been critical of the presentations. There is a reason for that. You are indirectly representing the US Navy, as well as the men who fought and died aboard the USS New Jersey, all of which have earned top notch representation. In those early videos where you had stains on your shirts, didn't comb your hair and let out belches in the middle of your stories deserved every critical comment I left back when I first came across them.
You are doing much better now.
You got yourself a clean uniform, you are not belching and while I am not sure yet, I hope you are no longer calling racks "beds" and spaces "rooms" and the like. Keep doing what you are doing and remember, son, that these men deserve your very best. Don't let the standard slip back to what it was and maybe consider reshooting some of those early videos.
Hey, you ask for our comments and I don't bullshit so...this is my comment.
I think it would be cool to review USS Ling SS-297 and lightship Barnegat LV-79. While Ling does not seem to have any major significant history she was still preserved as a museum ship in the 1970s and is not sadly rotting in the Hackensack River. Barnegat was built in Camden and is now also not doing well just a few miles up the river from the battleship.
An historic assessment of the Iowas:
BB61: Yes, because lead ship of significant class; yes because Pres Roosevelt as passenger on the way to Tehran Conference; yes because of the Turret 2 open breech explosion
BB62: No.
BB63: Yes, because of surrender documents signing.
BB64: No.
As a class the Iowas are a significant naval engineering technical achievement but proved to be marginal combat vessels. They were the best battleships ever delivered in the middle of a carrier war.
I don't think whether an Admiral used a ship as a flagship should have much weight in whether a ship is historically significant. US Admirals seemed to be able to make idiotic battle decisions on any ship they happened to cop a squat on!🙄
only BB63
I played a short concert with the USCG Bicentennial Band on the flight deck of the Kennedy while the USCGC Eagle did passing honors with the USS Constitution during 4th of July week. Totally an awesome experience.
No idea how this channel came up, but that was amazing to watch. I bet that pilot was beat after all of those high G turns. Subscribed and I’m looking forward to gaining more insight. Thank you sir.
Welcome aboard!
CVN-65 ( Enterprise ) ticks a lot of the Yes columns, or at lease, very specifically 1 of the criteria. 65 should be preserved, and yet ...
The Naval registry has been available only for 20+ years. It is very similar to what you are looking at. It contains disposition on just about every vessel ever commissioned in the usn.
If there was opportunity then some kind of comparison between different navys approaches to preservation. For example you could look at doing a series with curators for the evolution for example, Warrior , mikasa, averoff, texas, Belfast, New Jersey, Salem. It could help give context to naval evolution
Around the year 2005, when the JFK ended its active service, I heard there was a movement in the Boston area to make it a museum ship, like New Jersey. It was significant as the last non-nuclear carrier.
There was two groups trying to get it. One was a group in Rhode Island who probably came closest but they couldn't find a deep enough spot to park it.
I was stationed on the Uss norton sound between 1976 and 1979 in port hueneme California a seabee base. The ship was a refitted to test and develop the aegis missile system and one of 5 auxiliary class ships that received woman on board for the first time. Do you think the ship should have been considered for keeping
When I was in the USN and stationed on the USS California we were in the yard in Portsmouth, Virginia. I was fresh to the ship and green as a head of lettuce. I was standing on the main deck and saw the superstructures of several tugs moving through the channel and to our slip. We were new to the dry dock and the USS America was in there on our starboard side. Well those tugs stopped in front of our slip and maneuvered a hull to the pier across the slip from us. It was the USS Belnap. The superstructure was gone! We found out a couple of days later that it had been run over by the Kennedy doing night maneuvers in the Med. That always stuck in my mind about how dangerous being on one of those ships could be. During my tour, the Kennedy was always considered a bad luck ship. Our crew was never comfortable when operating around it. Perhaps that might be why it isn't being considered for anything but razor blades.
There is a version of this form for an Iowa Class battleship. Under 2011 USS Iowa was evaluated. So would be mostly contemporary to New Jersey.
Since you mentioned USS Samuel B Roberts, I should mention she was featured in Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising.
The 5 criteria for determining historical significance makes sense, at least to me. As much as a part of me would like to save them all, it makes sense( no such thing as an unlimited budget). I still wish the Navy had held on to at least one Wickes or Clemson class class destroyer.
I feel like they should have kept the shitty kitty along with Kennedy in mothballs.
They are/were the most modern non-nuclear carriers we had. And could have been spun back up quicker than we could have built new nuclear ones to replace them.
But I also understand that money is a thing and I’m being unreasonable for nostalgia sake.
Especially considering our LHDs and LHAs have kinda become nonnuclear fixed wing carriers with the delivery of F-35bs to the fleet.
Kitty was litterly worn out and even if needed for service would gave incurred millions in repair and upgrades.
@@stewarttrains98 still would be faster than building a replacement during wartime. But as stated in my reply, I understand it makes no sense economically.
@bnnyclips true. However, the navy probably has no one in the ranks anymore who knows how to operate and maintain all steam propulsion plant. Everything now is nuke, turbine or diesels. There are steam plants on these non steam ships but that's still not same skill set needed.
If JFK wasn’t historic enough, Kitty Hawk definitely was, she was the last of an era, it’s bizarre to me, and there was active interest in her preservation too. It’s a real shame.
its because the people in charge of this are just stupid...and dont care about our history like the generations before..
I toured the Yorktown , it’s like being in a steel warehouse. The planes were really cool and some of the living spaces you could tour but no engineering to tour. Had a much better time touring a submarine and a destroyer you could go everywhere. I hope to one day tour a Iowa BAttleship, these videos are awesome seeing the engineering that happened back in the late 1930’s early 40’s just amazes me. The scrapping of CV-6 is just crazy, she should be side by side with an Iowa Battleship.
Interesting that the evaluation for the Iowa-BB-61 is done in 2011. I am guessing a look at that could tell you how New Jersey might have faired.
Cool, nice picture of the Bon Homme Richard builder's plaque. My grandfather flew hell cats off of her.
I see a lot of comments for various ships to be saved as museum ships. One thing I dont hear mentioned is money. At the end of every video Ryan asks for donations to keep the New Jersey operating. State and local governments may chip in some but a museum ship like any business must be to a degree self supporting. For a larger ship such as a carrier there is also the issue of where will it go? Money was a large issue in why the USS Cabot CVL 28 a WWII straight deck carrier was unable to be saved as a museum ship
Think of all the ships that would have been preserved after WWII. Enterprise, Tennessee, Taffy 3 survivors. That's just scratching the surface for PUC and NUC. Would Saratoga (CV-3) have been saved as it was the earliest surviving aircraft carrier? It also was a battle cruiser conversion. You have the Guadalcanal that lead a task force to capture U-505. Would Nevada be saved as the first standard battleship? Does that mean we would still have Oklahoma in Pearl Harbor? What would it look like?
Saratoga should have been
hey skipper can you do one on the secondary battery and tertiary or quantinary and even quintanary batteries... it would play off the turret farm video. like "why are there x number of secondary and tertiary weapons on an iowa class battleship"
The forrestal the first super carriers
Ryan, I have an idea for a new video for you. The army is currently developing a 155 mm shell with a ram jet inside of it. It will increase the range from 24 km to 150 km. It sure seems like it would be a great way to bring the Iowa battleships back if we had 16 inch shells that had ramjets in them. If everything’s in proportion that would take the range from 25 miles to 150 miles.
One additional note on this is that the ram jet shells do not need to be spun so they don’t wear out the gun tubes as quickly
@@Indepthreview- If you compare the Army’s new gun to the Navy’s AGS which was supposed to go into the Zumwalt, you’ll find dramatic similarities. I can’t believe the Army and Navy didn’t join forces and develop a new 155mm together. Another missed opportunity and waste of taxpayers dollars!
Thank you Ryan that was another great episode.
At 12:59
First to incorporate engineering or systems....
The USS Enterprise, CVN-65 should be preserved.... First aircraft carrier powered by nuclear fission!!
Kinda bummed that USS Wolverine and USS Sable were not saved as a future US President did serve aboard them during training. George H W Bush took training in carrier operations aboard Sable and Wolverine. They also had a unique propulsion system for aircraft carriers.
That makes them more quirky then really historically significant.
They were returned to their original owners and demilitarized back to their original lake cruise ship configurations. And continued operating into the 50’s I believe. I honestly think it would have been amazing to leave them in Carrier configuration, yet still operate them as luxury dinner cruises. What would be the hanger deck on real carriers, was still a luxury dining space, even when they were doing pilot training.
They had paddle wheels, correct?
@@533hornet correct.
@@533hornet Yes. Side wheel paddleboat steamers. It would have been interesting to save one or both of them, but, as another poster points out, they were returned to private service. They were also the only fresh water aircraft carriers ever built. I just regret they didn't have the chance to be saved.
Government preservation criteria: Whether the ship has significance to American naval history. What attract tourists: Big, cool, badass warships
With the massive budget for new and ongoing equipment from all branches+nasa, and a few other 'likely to be histoicaly important' places. A savings account type thing. Of even like 0.1% for after EOL preservation built into vessel/equipment budgets would be a big brain move/never happen
Was listening and suddenly the screen flashed by a builder's plate with CV-10 on it but the name USS Bon Homme Richard. I knew that CV-10 was the USS Yorktown for I flew off of her in the mid '60s as part of the Anti-Sub Squadron 24 (VS-24). I remembered that she had been renamed before christening (bad luck to do it afterwards). I guess they never changed the plate and removed it when they de-commissioned the Yorktown in the '70s.
They were building out the USS Kennedy while I was with VS-24 just across the river at NAS Norfolk. One day their COD pilot (they had already assigned a COD and pilot to the Kennedy and he needed to fly up to DC for something. He called over to ask if one of our aviators could go with him (the C-1 was a 2 pilot required aircraft (as was the S-2 we flew and the E-1 we also had in our group). I was not scheduled for that day, so the opportunity was offered. I took it up and it was an interesting flight and added several hours to my log book. One thing I noticed was all the bling on the C-1 including chromed prop spinners. Of course she had just come out of rework and was nice and clean. One would even say new, except it was over a decade since it was actually built.
The VHS quality of this video is actually kinda cool haha
4:05 I agree 100% G.I.Joe was my favorite cartoon as a kid
Could you talk about an old light carrier called the uss cowpens? My grandfather served on her in ww2.
My brother was on the Kennedy in the gulf war. Thanks for sharing.🎉😂
I found the channel a few days ago and have been thoroughly enjoying the content. I'll be honest, though. The reason I clicked on this video is because I misread the title and thought it was "Was John F. Kennedy Historically Significant and How Does the Navy Determine That?" LOL
I hope this ship gets saved, probably won’t happen but i can still hope
The enterprise should have been...
@@collincharvat1082they're not going to save any of the nuke ships
JFK & Kitty Hawk were sold for scrap already.
scrapping Enterprise will cost about $1 billion because of its 8 nuclear reactors and other toxic materials. 1 reactor was already out of service towards the last years of service. Too dangerous to have the reactors in any live state, and a ship of this size and complexity is simply too expensive for any private foundation. People asked why the Tomcat was withdrawn from service ? The wing pivots needed inspection requiring disassembly of the upper wing root structure and it’s still a 25 year old aircraft with fuselage that incurred tremendous cat and arrest wire stress, and it was another maintenance line when the Hornet could fulfill a similar mission.
She has been sold for scrap. Her fate is sealed.
An effort was organized to preserve the USS Kitty Hawk too, but she’s being broken up as we speak in Texas…I deployed multiple times on Kitty Hawk in the 90s.
I would have liked to see Samuel B Roberts preserved. That can't happen now, she was sent to the ship breaker in Brownsville.
Perhaps something from the SBR could be given a place of honor in Battleship New Jersey.
I still wish USS Portland CA-35 was preserved. She got 16 battle stars and was one of the only ships that was present for all 4 major carrier actions of 1942 and didn't miss any major battles during the war.Alas neither Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine (my home state) made any attempt to save her. All that was kept was part of her tripod mast in Fort Allen Park in Portland ME. You figure with how infamous her sister the Indianapolis is they'd want to keep the only other ship of her class
They need to add another category for "was this ship the last of it's kind or the last to use a significant piece of technology or weaponry"
The Royal Navy could have used a list like that. Not preserving all of Dreadnought, Warspite, Renown, Nelson/Rodney, King George V and Vanguard is fair enough, those would have been a lot of very big ships in not great condition, but not even keeping one of them around despite all they did/stood for in the case of Vanguard is a real shame
Vanguard's only claim to fame was the "last of the many". Yes it was an awesome ship, and truly the best British battleship ever built. But it wasn't as histocally significant as say a queen Elizabeth, revenge or KGV class ship. All of which were available after the war and all were scrapped as we all know
The problem ww2 vessels faced in Britain was that Britain was utterly broke. Rationing lasted into the 50s and the navy was significantly reduced after the war and especially as commonwealth nations gained their independence reducing the need for as big a navy. Britain simply couldn't afford to keep them sadly and no one wanted to buy them. Warspite is however the ship above all those that should have been saved.
There's one ww2 royal navy ship that operates as a museum at least, Belfast, but no where near the significance of Warspite. She is moored on the Thames.
Yes, it was "HISTORICAL" 1st US Navy ship to visit Egypt & Israel, during "COLD WAR", 1980 , & Reinforcing freedom of Navigation, of Seas, with "Gulf of Sidra" "LINE OF DEATH".
yeah but in the grand scheme of things, USS New Jersey and Iowas don't do much given they are so late to the war that most of the major Axis battleships have been sunk and the ones that were still around are mostly blowing shoreline to smithereens as their operators lack fuel to run them
@@Knight6831 I'm just wondering how your above non sequitur can be considered a retort. Battleships were never mentioned, just whether a particular carrier should be considered historic. Agenda-driven, bad faith argument, perhaps. Retort? No.
@@YeOldeThrashDude Again it's no agenda, it is the simple fact that the Iowas in WW2 were superfluous
@@Knight6831 Relevance to the topic? Zero. Your below commentary confirms it. Gaslight all you want, you're pretty inarguably transparent with your bias.
I wouldn't exactly go that far. It had a long career. But nothing Earth-shattering.
Is it safe to say that no nuclear carrier will become a Musuem ship? Considering nuclear power and the vast size of them it would be very difficult to keep it in good shape for any NGO I presume.
They would have to remove the reactor, which I believe requires them cutting a hole in the sides. They are also very big. The Nimitz class (which I hope will be preserved, but realistically know won't) is like 100000 tons displacement and has a crew half the size of the nearest town to where I live. Any private organisation would need significant funding or a very rich patron for such an undertaking.
On another note, please preserve Nimitz. She is the first of her class, and the first of the first class of serial production nuclear fleet carriers. She participated in the attempt to evacuate US embassy staff from Tehran, was present for the Gulf of Sidra incident, was part of the US intervention in Lebanon, participated in both Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom, was a test platform for the F-35C and is a movie star 🌟. The Nimitz class represented American naval power projection for almost half a century and at least one of them should be preserved.
Convert this ship in a private yacht could be an interesting project.
My brother served on Big John ‘74-‘75 and experienced the collision with the USS Belknap on the 12th anniversary of JFK’s assassination on 11/22/1975. I’m hoping to acquire a piece as a memento since he died in 2011 not even 56 years old.
The Kennedy was a test platform for new technology at the time such as NSSMS and Cooperative Engagement Capability, so I'm not sure how it didn't meet that particular criteria.
Id be interested in hearing your take on they had to say about Enterprise CVN-65
14:03 Constellation Class? Kitty Hawk Class. Get it right. USS Constellation (CV-64) was a Kitty Hawk class carrier. Kennedy was originally a Kitty Hawk class carrier. But, there were so many modifications, they made it it’s own class.
I know this video is a month old already but can a US Navy vessel that has been stricken from the Navy active list ever be brought back to active service? I really hope Ryan sees this and can answer it???
Awesome information - thank you!!
What are those items loaned out by the navy. I would love to see them.
Looking at the criteria used, I can see Iowa being "historically significant" through being a "revolutionary upgrade", as she was the first battleship that could keep up with a carrier group; and also for the Turret Explosion if you squint. New Jersey would be significant for being a flagship in WW2, plus her service in two major wars and at least one other-than-war combat operation since (shelling Lebanon in the eighties); plus being the ship that introduced Tomahawk on surface ships. Missouri of course hosted the ending ceremony for WW2. Wisconsin, though.... only if foreign awards count? She did fight in three wars, but that's about it otherwise.
It would have been awesome to have KittyHawk displayed with the North Carolina.
My uncle served on the JFK in the late 70’s
The heroic USS Enterprise of WWII fame was beyond question for preservation. Yet she was scrapped by the Navy. That, in my mind, that was probably the greatest dishonor that could have befallen the greatest ship of WWII and an unforgivable sin. The Navy's criteria for preservation is without a doubt no more than the whim of the SecNav.
I'd have thought colliding with the USS Belknap would count as a significant event in the Kennedy's history. It sure was for the Belknap and her crew.
I would like to see one of these reports generated for CV (N) 06. USS Enterprise....just to see how badly the Navy screwed the pooch on that one.
I toured the Kennedy in 1981 Naples Italy
one of the 4 iowas is in there i was looking and see that USS Iowa is in the 2011 table of ships.
Sam Robert's is down in Brownsville
To people alive in America in the early sixties the ship is historically relevant if just for it's name only.
All aircraft carriers are impressive vessels. They're incredibly big, they have large open hangar decks with all kinds of business going on inside them, jets being moved around, Marines at muster in significant numbers, bluejackets fixing and repairing practically everything, and all this is going on while you're unrepping them. But I have to say, the first time I saw the New Jersey on the horizion pretty much trumped all of that. Sure, carriers are incredibly powerful, amazingly useful and technologically advanced, but seeing a battleship at sea for the first time is simply flabbergasting. The first time I saw the New Jersey, she appeared on the horizon turned perfectly to port, long, lean and outlined in the sun like some old World War 2 identification poster, in perfect silhouette Then, she turned toward us. My breath escaped from me in a hiss as I realized how wide in the beam she was, her 16 inch turrets turned toward us, the 16 inch guns becoming six large, ominous looking circles pointed directly toward us, her 5 inch 38's pointed in all kinds of crazy directions making her look like some kind of colossal steel porcupine getting ready to shed giant quills into whatever was foolish enough to get close to her. I about died. I definitely had a massive super dreadnoughtgasm. I had never seen anything that looked so massive, colossal and dangerous headed directly towards me. I will never forget that moment as long as I live. I've seen the Enterprise, Kitty Hawk, Kennedy, America and Ranger approach us and by God it will thrill you, but nothing and I repeat, NOTHING ever shocked and awed me like our first unrep with the lady J. She's like a lightsaber from Star Wars, a more elegant weapon from a more civilized time.
It really would have been nice to preserve one of the non-nuclear supercarriers. If its not practical to turn them into museums its REALLY not practical to host something with 2 nuclear reactors.
I would like to see USS Yorktown CG48
The Navy screwed a lot of tin can sailors by not allowing the ex-USS Charles F. Adams DDG-2, from becoming a museum ship.
It was the first class of US destroyers to be designed from the keel up to carry guided missiles. NAVSEA led the Jacksonville group that wanted to save the ship on for years and then pulled the rug out from under their efforts.
So for the question "Was the vessel the first to incorporate engineering, weapons systems, or other upgrades that represent a revolutionary change in naval design or warfighting capabilities," would the first supercarrier (USS Forrestal) have not been eligible for that? Or was it being the first supercarrier not enough to deem it a revolutionary change (like did they say that being a supercarrier wasn't much of a revolutionary change from a regular carrier)?
What the US says and what the US actually does are two very different things