What's the Basis for Veneration of St. Mary? Intercession of Saints?? Reply to Isabella DeLuca
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2024
- This video is an introductory discussion of the biblical types and parallels between OT figures and miraculous births and the Theotokos, St. Mary. I also discuss how this relates to the doctrine of the communion of saints and their intercession: this video is geared toward the specific Protestant objection that Marian piety is "not biblical."
Send Superchats at any time here: streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tip
The New Philosophy Course is here: marketplace.autonomyagora.com...
Use JAY50 promo code here choq.com for huge discounts - 50% off!
Set up recurring Choq subscription with the discount code JAY53LIFE for 53% off now choq.com
Lore coffee is here: www.patristicfaith.com/coffee/
Orders for the Red Book are here: jaysanalysis.com/product/the-...
Subscribe to my site here: jaysanalysis.com/membership-a...
Follow me on R0kfin here: rokfin.com/jaydyer 
Развлечения
Enjoy and like and share and turn on notiifcations!
Plz respond 🥺 for my friend Tito (he’s a big fan)
Tell Tito I said hello
This was amazing, I had no idea! Where can I learn more?
Gh@@fluxz_Loves-Theo-Theotokos
Thanks Jay, awesome work as usual. Also, I'd recommend you use a browser such as Brave for blocking all those ads.
I'm new to the Orthodox Church as a life protestant and I have been forced to humble myself in regards to icons and theotokos. I feel bad for thinking I knew better than the early church consensus, which is why I am trying to learn as well.
Protestant for over 30 years, cradle Pentecostal. It's a profound and humbling revelation. I am with you. Glory to God!
I’m a catechumen coming from a non-denominational background. You hit the nail on the head, you have to humble yourself. I’ve said the same kind of thing in my comments on other videos and posts related to these topics.
When I say humble yourself, I don’t mean believe whatever the Church says mindlessly. Rather, it’s humbling ourselves to admit we were wrong, that there’s a lot we didn’t know, a lot we misinterpreted, and also humbling ourselves to learn from the Holy Fathers and the Saints and recognize that they are carrying the Apostolic faith, not some 16 century reformers (who were schismatics from the Roman schismatic) or contemporary non-Orthodox scholars and theologians.
Glad you’re on the journey. God bless you.
@@GuitarJesse7 That is exactly what I mean!
I was a Protestant for 25 years. I came to a point where I had to decide if I was arrogant enough to think I knew better than 1500+ years of Christians before me.
@@MrWesford exactly the thought process I grappled with for a bit.
One of the most common objections I hear from protestants criticizing Orthodoxy, or even Catholicism, is when they say that "the saints are dead, they can't hear you".
The saints in heaven are not dead. That is a fundamental rejection of what Christ did during the decent into Hades, He emptied the Graves of the righteous dead and pulled everyone into heaven. Christ Himself said in the gospels, God is not the God of the dead, He is the God of the living. For in Christ, all are alive. (Luke 20:38)
The saints who are alive in Christ in heaven partake of the uncreated energies of God, as He shares some of His attributes with us (2 Peter 1:3-4). Therefore, the Saints in Heaven are actively aware of what is going on with us down here on earth in the church, and act as a cloud of witnesses for us (Hebrews 12:1-2)
This is also evidenced by the fact that St. John was able to hear all living creatures in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. (Revalations 5:13) Because they are aware of us, they very much are still concerned with what goes on with us here on earth and actively cheer us on until the end of days and pray exceedingly for us on our behalf and want vengence for us (Revalations 6:10), yes, even in heaven. The saints praying for us happens in the Bible (Revalations 5:8, and 8:3-4), and with all of this being put together, the last cherry on top of this is that if all these accounts are true and they are aware of us, they intercede for us on our behalf, and are alive in Christ, then what more shall we doubt? That we can ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, just as the holy apostle James encourages us to pray for one another, and he also says the prayers of a righteous man avails much. (James 5:16) This means that some people's prayers mean more to God than others, which is a fact. So therefore, if that is true, then the saints in heaven, since they have absolutely no sin anymore, have MUCH more valuable prayers than anyone on earth does. Remember what Our Lord said in the gospels, that he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than the greatest man on earth (Matthew 11:11). So why wouldn't we seek out the prayers of those who are defied in heaven, if they hold this much power in prayer? I believe it would be unwise to not ask them.
And before it's brought up, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, - 1 Timothy 2:5" is not an objection to everything I said. The word mediator here means "bridge", not intercessor. Christ being the only mediator between God and man is due to the fact that Christ is both God, and Man. Since He is both God and Man, He alone bridges the gap of salvation between God, and man because He is the God-Man. Mediation is not intercession. 1 Tim 2:5 is a soteriology verse. It's talking about salvation, not prayers and intercession. They're two completely different things, so this verse is not saying what you might claim it says.
There are examples of these sorts of things even in the OT as well. A couple examples of these instances is Tobit 12:15, when St. Raphael the Archangel claims himself as the angel who brings the prayers of the saints to God, and 2 Macabees 12:45 where even though this isn't necessarily a verse talking about intercession of the saints, it's still kinda in the same ball park where it displays a long standing Jewish tradition of praying on behalf of the souls that have departed this life. Thats because intercession goes both ways! Not only do the saints pray for us, but we also pray for those who've reposed as well. There always has been a relationship and connection between the souls on earth, and the souls of the spiritual realm. The church militant (Christians on earth) and the church triumphant (Christians in heaven), are one united church and we always have been.
I will be adding this to my notes
I agree with everything you say; but could you please explain "Anyone who consults the dead ... is detestable to the Lord" (Deuteronomy 18:11-12) and "Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?" (Isaiah 8:19)? Who are "the dead"? Is "the dead" referring to all deceased people prior to the Harrowing of Hades? Or is "the dead" referring only to those who are eternally damned (i.e. not the saints who were raised from the Bosom of Abraham)?
Totally agree. I've made these exact points to Protestants many times.
Your point about some prayers are of more value than others is reflected in Job 42:8- Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; *and My servant Job shall pray for you.* For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”
There is also Scriptural evidence for the church militant and church triumphant being one and not separated in Ephesians 3:15 that says "from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." This concept is absent in Protestantism because they say "just go to God directly." This thinking removes them from the unity of the body of Christ.
In 2 Macc. 15:12-16 the high priest Onias and the prophet Jeremiah were deceased for centuries, and yet interact with the living Judas Maccabeas and pray for the holy people on earth.
There is also an example to call upon the Holy Angels to join with us in exalting God in prayer in Psalms 103:20 - Bless the Lord, you His angels, Who excel in strength, who do His word, Heeding the voice of His word.
In Revelation 8:3 teaches Angels acting as priestly intercessors for us- "Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."
@repkows if you read Deuteronomy 18:10, it refers to witchcraft and mediums, same with Isaiah 8:19, this is not comparable to intercessions of the Saints.
I am saving your answer.God bless you ☦️
I despised the Theotokos for so long as a protestant in my life, and before when I was a secular person.
Now, I oray to her and she soothes me everyday and interceeds for me to our Lord.
It is truly right to meet you Theotokos.
Glory to God.
Extremely helpful as always 🙏
And siblings if you can, please pray as I prepare to be baptized into the church on Holy Saturday
Glory to God! ☦
❤️☦️🙏🏻
Amazing sis! Glory to God! ❤️☦️🙏🏾
@@TheTransfiguredLife thank you and I love your channel!!
@@niecytorvend9729 Thanks Niecy! ☦️
As a protestant recovering from years of considering myself """evangelical""", I feel sad for how protestants sometimes stray into being disrespectful to the blessed virgin. I was traumatized by the deification of Mary done by the Catholic church, so many of us rebel against that. But Mary deserves her proper veneration and respect as the theotokos
Was Mary a part of Christ as Eve is part of Adam who was formed by God?
@@toneypeel3482 mmmm I don't think so. Husband and wife being one flesh is different than a mother and child, I think. I don't think the Bible ever describes Mary and Jesus being "one" the same way it describes husband and wife.
My fiance and I attented our first Orthodox Liturgy last sunday. We will be returning! ☦️ God Bless. Thanks for all you do.
Was just talking to my fellow Church of Christ friend about Orthodox theology last night. Would appreciate more context like this on the classically challenging Ortho positions for Protestants, as I’m starting to feel comfortable telling them about Orthodoxy and want to better articulate the more distant concepts when they inevitably arise. Thanks, Jay!
I've never heard quite this depth about the Theotokos, good stuff.
Churning out premium content as always. Thanks jay!
Call me crazy, but it seems that God choosing Mary to carry Jesus in her womb, and raise him, makes her pretty darned important! 😂
When I was a catechud, this is almost exactly how my priests explained the Theotokos to me
Excellent video, Jay. As someone looking into the Orthodox faith, I found this very informative. Especially useful when faced with Protestant retorts.
As a convert for the past 4 months working on becoming Orthodox I highly appreciate this video. Thank you Jay.
I remember my initial discomfort with veneration as an inquirer/catechumen. I didn’t understand it as I didn’t think of it as idolatry. I later realized my discomfort just came from being an American who’s not used to bowing to or kissing people.
Yes, it took me many months into my inquiry before I became comfortable with venerating the icons or even receiving a blessing from the priest after the liturgy and taking the antidoron. God willing, I will take the step to being a catechumen soon.
This is a great presentation of why this doctrine is accepted in the church historically.
Only point, Hannah’s husband actually loved her more than the other wife even those the other wife gave him children , he even asked “isn’t my love worth more than ten sons?” But the other wife was bullying her and having no children was shameful so it was Hannah begging God to take her shame away it wasn’t because she was unloved by her husband or because he wasn’t intimate with her but because she was barren.
This is wild how clear this is. I mean, if you were dropped in the middle of earth w/ no preconceived notions of Christian Theology and someone explained this to you - be honest: would you actually object??
My counter argument would be..... if you were dropped in the middle of earth w/ no preconceived notions of Christian Theology and you just read the bible from cover to cover (without anyone explaining this concept to you) - be honest: would you actually come to this conclusion?
I would say no.... but I'm sure you and many others would disagree. lol
Peace and Love brother!
My world Jay. This was the best explanation I have ever heard. I can't think of a word that describes how revealing this was. No one, I mean no one ever presented this reality to me or anyone in my family, who also listened by the way, so completely and memorable. Could you please, please do more of these historical spiritual summations in future? You have the gift of bringing one closer to God. A rare gift. So rare, I can honestly say you're the first one I have ever noted or even said this to. Thank you and thanks to Isabella for prompting this response we could all benefit from. Bless you.
These bite size clips are awesome man!
Another aspect that most people overlook is that for most of human history "Queen" was the title given to the mother of the King. Only recently (because of Disney) the idea that "Queen" = "King's wife" was popularized. We can even see this play out in real life with the British Royal Family. Camilla, King Charles' wife, holds the title of "Queen Consort" and not "Queen". As Queen Consort she holds no official power or authority over any matter of the state. However if Princess Diana were to still be around, she would have inherited the title of "Queen" because of the fact her eldest son will logically one day become King.
Wouldn't it be called the Queen Mother?
IIRC that's the title given to the mother of the reigning King.
@@joeyn985 No as that is a redundancy: all Queens are mothers by definition. I did look up "Queen Mother" out of curiosity and it's a modern title given to the mother of Queen Elizabeth II to avoid confusion. As Queen Mother she had no real authority in any matter as she had no male heir. Her daughter had male heirs therefore she was "The Queen".
@@faux2d448 fair enough. Either way it makes sense. As earthly mother to Jesus human nature, honestly, nobody should have a problem calling her a queen.
Its a great day when Jay drops Orthodox theology lessons ☦️
Typology has become my favorite way of understanding the Bible over the years, not realizing that the Orthodox had been doing it long before I ever existed.
Lots of Prots in this comment section didn’t watch the video
Debated my old baptist pastor on this a few weeks ago
Genius, these response videos are amazing Jay. Videos like this are needed, nothing wrong with discussing it in a 3 hour livestream but so many will just brush past it because muh short attention span. God bless you and the work that you do
Also, arguing from the scripture is big when refuting those who only wanna talk about scripture. "WELL ALL I HEAR IS BABBLING ON TRADITION I WANNA SEE IT IN THE BAAAABLE"
Wtf, i asked this of Jimbob, in his Livestream today, he actually responded live, and now jay has a clip today.
I must listen and understand.
Thankyou
Thank you for this video, Herr Jay. I was born and raised Protestant and I'm exploring Orthodoxy and have been for a while, now. I used to have an antagonistic view towards veneration but my heart has softened significantly. I'm just working on getting to the point of it not violating my conscience and your video has helped tremendously. My biggest fear was unwittingly committing idolatry (though I understand the difference between prayer to the Godhead and prayer to saints there just is no such distinction in my Protestant tradition) and it just didn't sit right with me. I don't rebuke those who do, I just haven't been able to do it myself. It's still a struggle for me to accept but again, you've helped. My next biggest hurdle is actually finding an Orthodox church. I live in the middle of BFE Iowa and there's not exactly an abundance of them here. Please pray for me both in the changing of my heart and in my search for a church. Thanks again and God bless you and may Saint Michael watch over you.
Most holy Theotokos save us ☦️
Only Jesus Christ can save you
@@OkieAllDayso when you’re dying from blood loss a doctor can’t save you?
@@CteabisMary is a doctor now?
@@OkieAllDayamen
Honest question here as someone learning about orthodoxy - how does Mary save us, other than being the theotokos? As in, she bore the Savior, yes. But to Jesus belongs all the glory of salvation, no?
There is so much more than Marian veneration being discussed here! As a former So. Baptist I just learned so much about how the Church was formed in the womb of Mary, but also how the prophesies and foreshadows of the Christ the Messiah was initiated at the fall of man. When I visited the house of Mary near Ephesus, Turkey, it was transporting, and emotional like entering another dimension for me and my Catholic wife.
This is the single best video I've seen arguing the biblical basis for the Orthodox (christian) church. This video could easily be titled 'biblical basis for Christianity'. Great job Jay, didn't even have to change the playback speed; quick, consice, and to the point.
This is the best video vindicating Mariology from a Biblical perspective. The other ones I’ve seen are alright, but they were so scant with information that I assumed it was just better to prove mariology from church history rather than The Bible.
But this video was so well dense with information scripturally, and presented in a clear way that I no longer think that anymore.
God bless you Jay, and thank you so much for this gem.
Thanks Jay, I think this is great for people who first wrestling with these issues. Hopefully the person you are responding to will watch and be willing to keep exploring and wrestling with this. I totally sympathize with where she was coming from, I had read the Bible many times, sought to follow Christ and surrender my life to Him, and definitely would have rejected Orthodoxy for similar reasons. Thank God He is patient with us and keeps revealing the truth to us if we honestly seek and knock.
One thing that I think is unfortunate when it comes to bringing people out of heterodox groups, and into orthodoxy, is that icons, Mary, and some of those types of things end up overshadowing a lot of other important aspects of Orthodoxy. And sometimes it can come across to non-orthodox people, as if what we’re especially advocating for is those things. But from my experience thus far, it’s really just that those are a part of our practices and beliefs, and they are important, but there’s so much more- cultivating a Christ centered life, actively fighting the passions in community, submitting yourself to spiritual guidance, being a part of the historical and living/active Body of Christ ( not just a single congregation or a denomination). And as you start to be cleansed and slowly develop the Phronema (mind) of the Church, which I know I barely have, you continue to discover more and more in big and small ways just how much the various heterodox groups have departed. And that’s not something you can show someone through debate or simply by reading a book, it takes time, and it takes transformation. I pray more, and more people will be willing to press in and discover the truth.
Can't wait to listen to tomorrow
I love the Psalm 45 mention. What’s beautiful about it is the queen always sits at the right of the King and later in the New Testament you will have two apostles ask if they can sit to the left and right of Christ and he says those sits are taken (I’m paraphrasing) and because of Psalm 45 and Psalm 110, we know exactly who that is. It’s the Father to His left and the Queen, the Holy Panagia, to His right
Just watched your debate with bryson.
That was crazy!
Another BANGER video dude 🫡☦️
This is a a great breakdown. You could almost call this video “A Sola Scriptura Basis for veneration of Mary and Intercession of Saints” a lot of Protestants are looking for a “sola scriptura” explanation of this topic and I’ve yet to find one in the internet as good as this to show them.
Just to clarify, "sola scriptura" doesn't mean "only looking at scripture". It refers to scripture being the ultimate authority as word of God.
@@joeyn985 yes but based on whose interpretation? Yours? mine? John MacArthur? Joel Ossteen? I’ll go with the interpretstion of the church that’s been around for 2000 years.
@@KillDozer86 I mean, there isn't one single interpretation for two millennia. There have always been debates, disagreements, etc. even within the NT itself we see Paul, Peter, etc. rebuking and correcting the churches that had started up.
How do you decide which church to follow? In the end it always comes down to your own personal decision and belief. You deciding to follow a certain church is still based on your own personal analysis and interpretation of the history, writings of church fathers, debates at the councils, etc
Jay, can you explain in dillamonkey terms?
Ooo eee ooo ah ah tong tang... Oh wait that's tongues... Or was Chinese... I forget
As a student of Dillamonkey, I would posit the following summary of this material:
(Lispy flailing. "Don't make fun of my wife's penis". "Allow me to quote from the c00manist manifesto")
@TruckstopHick it's still very helpful, and Matt is known as an avid speaker of tounges.
@@abd_allah183 😆
Always a help, Jay. I’m still a catechumen but hopefully will be baptized at Pascha.
Leaving a comment to promote algo and say this is incredibly helpful. Would love more of these Orthodoxy conversion growing pain abatements. More-so to explain to the Protestant inquirers.
As always. Top stuff Jay! Thanks and God bless you.
Jay, how about a podcast about the superiority of the LXX, with a different vorlage from the Hebrew text. Also how the lying Masoretes (Jn 8:44) added vowel points to the original text to obscure the Messianic prophecies and steer people away from the truth. Also the defective Latin Vulgate and how it led to heterodox doctrines of the western churches.
Amen, you hit the nail on the head
@@HighCarbDiabeticV scary how much your user name describes me.
Learning more about the anti-christ corruption from the masoretic text, and how the KJV uses the MT for it's OT, it helped finally break any "KJV only" ideas in my head. Christ and the apostles used the Septuagint. That's as good an endorsement as any.
Thanks for edifying us. God bless.
I’m non denominational rn am leaning towards orthodox, but praying to saints is really what’s holding me back but it’s the denomination that I most connect with for sure and is most scriptural and right traditions.
I was having trouble w the saints too. I understand it now.
@@gloriaharlowdrummondjesusi7306 Same I can confirm I am orthodox now all glory to Jesus
Very well done Jay!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This looks great! Thank you!
Most holy Theotokos save us☦️
Only Jesus Christ can save you
@@OkieAllDayso a fireman can’t save you from a burning building?
@@OkieAllDayyou’re not understanding what that means. It doesn’t means she offers salvation. It’s asking for her assistance in our salvation just as we expect those around us on earth to help carry us in faith till death because we’re not doing it alone. As Paul says we are coworkers with Christ and we help in the salvation of those around us. we are not the ones who offer salvation though
Awesome video Jay! Thanks!! If anyone is wondering about Mary read Maximilian Kolbe.
Hello JAY
Great clip 🙏🏼
Thank you for this. The work you do is important for fellow Christians (especially the Orthodox) who don't have the background to dig into and study theology. To get deeper into the real theology of the Bible is to move towards Orthodoxy.
this cleared up a ton for me. usually your videos are hard to watch bc I have to look up definitions for a lot of things that you mention, but this video was super easy to understand #slowboination
If Jesus is (and He is) the new covenant, that makes Mary the new Ark of Him.
Thank you
Great video ☦️
I grew up in a Protestant church in Florida. I have a friend that is orthodox and sent me a link to this video. I still am confused. Not on church history or the symbolism. Maybe I’m just a simpleton or just ignorant, I admit. However, I’m still confused on the part where you pray to the Saints or Mary?
I can’t find a verse that say to pray to these people. And even the Apostles didn’t ask for worship after doing miracles in the name of Christ. With all the symbols that you use of Mary, none the those objects like the ark of the covenant or the people like eve or Sara are to receive worship or prayers. And I’m not covenanting with those symbols either. That is reserved for GOD? God bless.
Agreed
Obviously this is not going to be a "gotcha!" moment here, but (at least my limited understanding of) the way it works is that since Christ has destroyed death, and those that have reposed are with him now, they are still members of the church and still alive. In the same manner that we ask other people within the church to pray for us, we are able to ask the saints to pray (intercede) for us. General texts use to support this are in Hebrews, where we see that we are surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses" and in Revelation, where we are shown that there are people in heaven praying for us. I would encourage you to look into this with better sources than a stranger in a RUclips comment section though, so I'd refer you to a Lord of Spirits podcast or some other knowledgeable Orthodox source.
Great content! (Not to sound like Gabriel)
“The Lord who bowed the heavens in his decent
Is in you contained completely and without change
Taking the form of a slave
Astounded I cry out to you
Rejoice O unwedded bride”
Gross, I just piety signaled😔🙏
Protestantism falls apart the moment an alternate interpretation of scripture is offered, because they have no epistemic authority by which to tell which explanation is correct.
To be fair, any claim of epistemic authority ends in a sort of circularism. Protestants go "scripture interprets scripture" and orthodox would say "the Church interprets scripture, and we know the church has authority because scripture says".
Like if I ask you "how do you know if the church interprets something wrong, like many have in the past (hence schisms and heretics and such)", you would say "because the church withstands the gates of hell" - but the ones you say are heretics would claim they're right too, and they have the true authority.
I'm not attacking the Orthodox church here btw. I'm just saying, eventually you reach a circular argument either way. Which one is more reasonable to believe is a different question
@@joeyn985 "orthodox would say "the Church interprets scripture, and we know the church has authority because scripture says"."
That isn't why we believe the Church has authority. We believe the Church has authority because the earliest Christians who met the Apostles all believed they taught the Church had authority. Since they met the Apostles and learned from them, they have an objectively better education on what the Apostles taught than we do today.
@@bad_covfefe but what happens when a bunch of different people who came after the apostles end up having different interpretations? How do you judge today which ones are right? Every different branch that split claims to be the true church with the true authoritative interpretation.
Again to be extra clear I'm not asking this because I'm trying to attack the Orthodox church. I really am interested in these things. I'm fully open to being convinced that the Eastern Orthodox church IS the one true authoritative church of Christ, I just need to see the actual working through of it, not just the flippant tropes people usually throw out.
@joeyn985 I get it brother. Good questions.
When it comes to people having different interpretations, who do you think would know best what the Apostles believed and taught? The people that actually met the Apostles, or groups that came up with their own ideas later? On a deeply practical level, I think you will agree that the people who met the Apostles know best. Note that we are not arguing that the people who knew the Apostles were infallible. They were human just like us, but the fact that they met the Apostles means that they are more likely to be correct than we are coming up with our own interpretations today, 2000 years later.
The earliest Christians did not agree on everything, but they did agree on many very important things such as the nature and purpose of Communion/the Eucharist and Baptism, as well as Apostolic Succession and the authority of Church Councils. As Christians, we want to follow the teachings of Christ which were carried through His Apostles. The question of what the Apostles taught is not a "Bible question," nor is it a theological question. It is a historical one, and the historical evidence on just those topics I mentioned a second ago is enough to refute all of Protestantism.
The question if the "which Apostolic Church is the correct one?" (Referring to the Catholics, Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, and Assyrian churches) is a different question, and I'd be happy to share my thoughts on that as well if you are interested.
@@bad_covfefe I mean I obviously agree that someone who knew an apostle and learned under them would be a more reliable authority on what that apostle was teaching.
Worth pointing out though....even Protestantism would claim to be apostolic. At least in its origins. The Reformation was a bunch of Catholics who believed the Vatican had strayed from the proper teachings and wanted to reform back to previous ideas. Like ditching indulgences for example. Now you can disagree and think they went about it the wrong way, I'm not really taking the position here that they were right, but just clarifying that technically, Protestantism didn't claim to just pop out of the ground and invent new ideas, the entire point was reforming to earlier traditions and correcting things the Vatican got wrong. So they would still be "apostolic", since if the Vatican is apostolic, so are the reformers.
I'm sure this very first description went far over the person's head that ask the question. I think she was asking for like frisbee height can you send it Howitzer height
Love this video! Another thing I really found helpful is that the books of 1 and 2 Kings all are careful to mention the queen mother for each of the kings in the line of David (you can see which kings these are in the geneaology in Matthew). The queen mother had an official role as the king's right-hand woman within these kings' courts. In the same way we see Bathsheba interceding to Solomon in Kings, we see Mary interceding to Christ at the wedding in Cana. It doesn't take too much effort to argue that:
1. Davidic kings had their mother in a place of authority in their courts
2. Jesus is a Davidic king
3. Mary is therefore the Queen of Heaven since she is a mom of a Davidic king that happens to rule over heaven and the whole world.
Behold your Mother! ❤
Not sure if you're aware- Joe Rigney for the Prots has brought up the idea of the harrowing of Hades in a way that exegetically mirrors what I've heard of you in explaining the movement of the patriarchs from Paradise/Sheol to Heaven
I usually just listen to audio. Not sure when you added the George Jones halo.
George Jones halo? 😂 It’s just Miami Vice imagery.
I've been reading and listening to a lot about orthodoxy as I've got quite the interest like many, and I have largely the same hang up being discussed here. I have a lot of respect for Jerry, especially when it comes to the church history and doctrine and theology, and he goes to great links here trying to display the orthodox backing for the Marion saints practices. But I still can't get over the hurdle, it's still going through giant leaps to seek out random interpretation and even more random scriptural framework, while from my point of view Paul instructing the church in his letters would have had to have mentioned much of this in his early instruction for there to be any real backing. Just things like Christ and his siblings, or clearly where he references his mother, there's nothing that elevates some of these beliefs to how important they are in Catholicism and orthodoxy. Mary is so prominent in the entire identity and practice of Catholicism, a little less or so in orthodoxy, that I just can't see anything other than created practices over time. I'll keep reading and praying, but at this point I still just see only defense of current practice by back reading into things, and certainly not some kind of simplified practice that you would have thought Christ himself, or certainly Paul would have laid out to the believers. What are here is a morass of interpretation , that seems to have easily went off in a completely different direction for an manor of people reading the same thing over the centuries. Even things like the assumption of Mary at her death, they state it as a fact when the only thing they can point to is the fact that there were no relics of Mary found. At best one could speculate that perhaps that was the case with Mary, but I certainly don't see how they've made it doctrine and fact infallible. But again I appreciate Jay and his knowledge so I'll stay on the path and see where it goes
Based
♡
Could anyone help me understand a problem I have with this? From what I understand, according to this video/argument, is that there is strength in prayer (that is, people/Saints praying for others' prayers to be answered works) - but does this not undermine God's omniscience to a certain extent? He already knows what we want and what we would pray for before we have even prayed for it. I understood that the saints are alive in Christ in heaven, if not even more so than we are on Earth. But I also always understood praying for others here on Earth as more of a gesture of good will, since as I said God is omniscient and already hears our prayers/already knows what we want before we've even asked for it, and prayers themselves are a way to submit yourself through communion with the Father to His will and to ask in faith that He grants you what you want- not simply a petition to God to change His mind and grant you what you ask. God will respond according to His will and perfect understanding of what is ultimately best for us, not the quantity or frequency of our request. Asking others either here on Earth or Saints in heaven therefore would undermine God's impartiality and omniscience, since it suggests that His judgements are not based solely on what is right or just but rather on external factors - Saints' prayers. Please be kind, and God Bless!
James 5:16 - "The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."
God is omniscient. But he cares about what humanity wants. That’s why he answers prayers. He loves us like we are his children. If a bunch of kids ask their dad for help, he will help them if the cause is just.
@@deacon6221 I like this way of seeing it, thanks
Our Lord touched on being persistent in our prayers, so frequency of prayer does make a difference. As he noted in the parable of the persistent widow in Luke 18: 1-9:
Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’ ”
Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them SPEEDILY. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”
Good morning. , In the bible Our Living and true Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said " I am
the Way , the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name , I will do it." Matthew. 6: 9 ; John 14 : 6, 14. Thanks for the update PEACE ❤
👑💕🙏👍
"Any concept at all is climate change" is actually an unfortunately accurate statement.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON SPACE?!😲🚀🌌👨🚀👾🛰👽🌍🌑⚛
So the serpent has seed too? Who are the serpents seed and what role do they play in the world
It's a spiritual reality for anyone not in Christ. Not biological.
What happened to thou shalt not create any Images and bow down unto them?
ruclips.net/video/yrVscRrwo34/видео.html
@@JayDyer before I get into semantics of icons and idols, I’m talking about a statue of Mary, or of a saint, or of a disciple. These should not be prayed to bc they offer no salvation. Worship of the dead or prayers to the dead are forbidden period. I love your work and appreciate your intellect and the orth is certainly the last line of defense in the world seemingly. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything you guys do. And this is a hard sell to get around the commandment by saying it’s icons and we aren’t really worshipping them. If you’re praying to it or bowing down to a statue, you’ve broken the commandment. I will watch your link though.
I like how you're using the Sabbath for theology videos.
wut?
@@JayDyer No, he means it as a compliment - at least I took it that way. So many people are using the Lord's Day (which is NOT the Sabbath) to do things that have nothing to do with, well, the Lord and His Church!
Was Mary a part of Christ as Eve is part of Adam formed by God?
ngl, dude's hair got long
I can understand her being held in high esteem. Inventorated, but I would never pray to Mary. And I think the grounds for her being sinless are still poor. How does the orthodox church treat those who don't want to pray to mary?
Some 80,000 denominations in Christendom! What is often forgotten is we are 1 church in Christ. For peace to finally rein we must remember this & drive out the evil in this world.
There is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and it ain’t invisible
The first claim, that "Mary is the new Eve", is rather nonsensical. Scriptural mixing and matching notwithstanding, would you therefore likewise venerate the prelapsarian Eve? If the question is, indeed, absurd, for many reasons, then why regard it any differently when it comes to Mary? The second claim, that Jesus "took his humanity" from Mary, has terrible implications. You could likewise say that Jesus "took his sociopolitical personhood" from Tiberius. Is Tiberius therefore "Emperor of Heaven"? The third claim, the mention of the Magnificat, is also inane. Recall that Mary is a minor character in the Bible, and that most characters are in opposition to and/or disbelief of Christianity (the man accusing Jesus of blasphemy in John, for example, is on equal structural footing with the Magnificat). The fourth claim, that "Mary is the Church and/or mother of all the living" still does not answer the question of veneration, most of all veneration relative to the Christian God: does Mary pertain to the Church or the living more or less than God does? If yes, then this is no longer Christianity. If no, then, Logically, there is no reason to venerate her since, everything else lower than Mary could be likewise said to pertain to the Church or the living to a lesser degree than God does, and therefore also be worthy of veneration. Absurd. Finally, on the intercession of saints (disregarding the difference between sainthood in Judaism, the one described in Scripture, and in Christianity, and the fact that Mary was never canonized in either tradition...so much for the flesh), is the whole idea of prayer, and, consequently of intercession, not fundamentally pagan? Paganism describes man as nothing but the Gods' partner in eternal venality, changing minds, bodies, wills, fates, etc. Regardless, a sad video.
Awesome thanks. I just watched 5 minutes of a video debunking you lmao. How do you answer the accusation that you changed your mind?!!!
Those Dimond Bros. TOTALLY EXPOSED Jay, no coming back!!! 😂😂
How is the fact he converted an argument against his current views?
@@LadyMaria a channel called vatocancatholic
@@sihtnaelkk2187 I didn't watch the whole two hour video so I am not sure. They said that because he was Baptist, calvanist, atheist, Catholic, eastern Orthodox that it shows he is unstable. Not compelling.
@@Ransetsu As Maria said... They are a joke. No one engages with them seriously and their arguments against orthodoxy (including the fall of constantinople 🤦🤦🤦) are unworthy of responding to
They are also sedevacantists. Which means they themselves support an extremely untenable and ridiculous theological position
Jay has found orthodoxy through a journey, like any people do he's not alone in this. That he wasn't born orthodox is not an argument against him and the fact he embraced orthodoxy after decades of searching actually bolsters the case of orthodoxy
There is no example of prayer to someone who has passed over, other than to Jesus alone. Saul was rebuked by Samuel. Nobody in all of the old or new covenant petitioned a person beyond the grave to successfuly intercede for them to God. Jesus is the only way, the only mediator between God and men. But other than prayers to people who have passed over, I'm totally on board with orthodoxy.
I know the fallen angels asked Enoch, but that didn't work in their favor.
I was really interested in hearing Jay's explanation. I'm on board with so much that is orthodoxy, but he didn't give a reason for prayers to the people beyond the grave. Where is the example in Jewish synagogues? The church is a continuation of the worship that was going on before His birth. There is no prayers to anyone beyond the grave.
No no no, you don't understand, Christ is Uber red pill and calls her woman in straight up Myron Gaines fresh and fit style. 🙃 #protlogic
The seed of the woman, namely Jesus, tramples the head of the serpent.
And in Rev 12 She tramples him. It's both/and not either/or. Finish the video.
@@JayDyer Genuinely curious, where in Rev 12 does she do that?
@@JayDyer you mean Israel
@@MrBattlestar10 nowhere, it's scripture twisting
So glad we live in America and have freedom of religion. I don't care if people want to pray to Mary or saints just like I don't care if someone is a Protestant or Hindu or whatever. Live and let live. If more people had that philosophy the world would be a better place.
Hey bro, check out more of J. Dyer's content to shed the relativism.
This is the lamest thing I've read all month. Congratulations on being a conformist to secular rot...
Live and let live ultimately just becomes Sodom and Gomorrah.
None
You didn't watch the video.
"None" Such great analysis dude
🤡
“I did not and will not watch the video because I’m prideful.” There, I fixed it for you.
Amen. Glory praise worship (veneration) be to the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit now and forever more. I shall not worship created beings.
Jay dropping Knowledge Bombs son!😎😎😎😎😎💵💵💵👍🧐
"Get that dasani water ready, chief!"🤣🤣🤣🤣😜😇
@JayDyer
Nice try with positing the Rock not cut by human hands in a way that doesnt make any sense. The Rock is the truth that Peter declares. His Church grows to fill the entire earth and smashes man made idols.
Thanks Jay. 🫡 I hope this "clicks" for protestant inquirers