This is such a valuable conversation. I have spent years as the Front of House engineer and now am back onstage playing EG and love talking to the Tech team and livestream folk. They get onboard pretty quick when I say "I want to learn how to make their job easier". In my FOH days I had the opportunity to counsel guitarists through the grief they felt when they listened back to the livestream mix. You nailed it on the head when you brought up getting to know the effect of the acoustic nature of your rehearsal space and perceived volume.
As both a stage musician and a sound guy, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with the idea of showing up early! Our typical rehearsal starts at 7 and we have musicians that roll in either right at 7 (or often 5-10 minutes AFTER, during first song), then set up, then complain that their sound isn't what they want! Everyone, PLEASE show up early, make sure your gear is working and that the sound crew has a chance to get your piece of the puzzle sounding good before the rehearsal starts.
One thing to think about when trying to figure out why the guitar sound is better at home than it is at church. When you're at home, you have the entire sonic space to occupy with no competition. The natural instinct is to add bass and treble and scoop the mids so that the sound feels bigger. But when you play that sound in a full band, now you are competing with drums, bass, keyboards, singers, other guitars, etc. Your sound is trying to occupy the same sonic space that those other instruments are. For your guitar to cut through, you need to cut the bass and some of the treble and add mid-range frequencies. Great mixes usually have each instrument occupying a narrow frequency range so they don't compete with the other instruments as much.
This is so true! I posted about this in other threads and videos of WT. First ring I ask the sound engineer is to please remove any type of EQ from my channel. Flat zero everything! Usually they comply especially if you are nice and humble. 😊❤ but, that is massively important because your tone will definitely suffer if they don't! I love what you guys said about being nice to the FOH guys. They definitely have lots of folks screaming at them from stage, so asking them ahead of time and explaining that you have already twekwd the tone and applied all sorts of EQ on your digital pedalboard. They know that adding additional EQ will totally ruin stuff. I also add a lot of mids to my tone. You have to have 2 types of presets. One for home use and one for Live use. That's how I do it. I tweak it at home and get it as close to how i like it, the re-tweak it live if possible then save it it as Live in the preset name. Believe me, it works! Add mids at home, reduce Bass and Treble, and you will sound amazing once the band starts playing!
Man, this is so true. I added a pricey Line 6 FRFR speaker to my Helix last year which has helped tremendously. But hey, on the other side, I now save hours of doom scrolling for the next great pedal and/or amp that will finally make me a good player :) I sold my moderate pedal rig years ago, bought a Helix and put money in the bank.
My budget worship team guitarist set up living in an apparment: Boss GX100 modeler with fx: $600 Bluetooth adapter for the GX100: $60 AKG studio headphones: $75 I stream music via Bluetooth from my phone to the pedal. Then watch Worship Tutorials to see fingers play riffs. Play along and listen over the headphones. The Boss pedal also has a looper so I can practice soloing over the chord progression.Bonus, my patches sound pretty close at Church to the headphones by the Sovereignty of Almighty God. Amen.
I chose the Valeton GP-200 just because it was the only ‘affordable’ multi effects unit that had xlr outs so I could plug the cable from the board straight in. While it has worked I’m not overly impressed with the delays and reverbs in the Valeton. I’m now starting to build a small board around a DSM & Humboldt Simplifier mk2 (also chosen for the xlrs) with a few select pedals to get a ‘better’ sound. While this may or may not work it is not to be confused with a cheaper option! I’ve also just invested in a wireless system for the guitar so I can walk off the stage and in front of the PA in the practice and get a better understanding of how my guitar sounds to the congregation rather than how it sounds in my iems. It also allows me to chat to the well meaning sound engineer so they get an idea of what I’m after!
The biggest thing a DI gives you is protection against phantom power frying your modeller. I have 2 1/4" to XLR cables, which I could use to run stereo from my Stomp's balanced outs, straight into the desk, but I avoid this. Esp with a digital desk it's really easy to accidentally end up with phantom power (48V) send on your channel if the PA guy isnt totally on it. This will probably junk your modeller 😬 A DI will stop the 48V getting to you.
I use my Kemper Stage at church. Output to FOH via xlr. Works great. For home rehearsal of Sunday tunes I run the Stage to my good old PC via usb and listen to Planning Center through my in ears, Shure SE-215s, which are plugged into the back of the Kemper. Easy peazy. Again, works great!
This is the reason I bought a Boss Katana 100 MKII instead of HX Stomp or similar. I prefer the time based effects of Line 6 but the Katana has it all. So happy with all the routing options.
Great video guys, here's my story if you are interested: I was already down the rabbit hole without a light trying to figure out what I needed between my instruments and the amp/speaker when I first saw a RUclips post (2016) about the Helix. I quickly realized that I could do anything I was thinking about < wet-dry-wet, stereo amps, separate amps for different instruments and a couple of other dumb things I gave up on (I was just starting to understand about 'phase' issues) > without buying multiple different interfaces....the Helix had so many I/O's with everything connected/controlled in the box it was a no-brainer. All I had to think about at that point was types of cables and their length. Thanks for the time you put into this subject.
If you perform live, maintaining a back-up rig is a must, which adds costs. Even the best modelers can fail. I lived through this leading-up to last weekend's services when my modeler had to be shipped-out for warranty replacement days before. Good thing I could resurrect my old board with my favorite analog overdrives and an old HX Stomp XL. As much as I wished to have sold old equipment to fund the new modeler, I'm glad I didn't!
What's cool this days, is that one can have backup rig in form of $50 cheap audio interface, and a free DAW + laptop with some free amp sims and free plugin effects. Takes time to set up such project, but if it is needed sparingly, it's probably fine. I want to do something similar one day.
I was about to sell my analog pedals after I moved to a FAS Ax-8 for live worship. So glad I didn't. Although my AX-8 is solid as Tank! I started to put together a hybrid Analo/Digital pedalboard using an iPad/iPhone. So all my analog drives go into a cheap USB interface Beringher UCA 202 to the iPad/iPhone which has all my delays, Pitch effects, Reverbs using either a mix of apps like AUM, Overloud-THU, Bias Effects 2, Eventide, Nembrini, etc! So this Setup is extremely flexible! I'm considering getting a better interface but little by little. It sounds amazing though now as is.
One solution that seems to be missing from the conversation (I skipped around a bit so I may have missed it) is playing these units through an amp and using the 4 cable method. A lot of people buying these already have amps, so it's no extra cost. I do this with my JCM 2000 and bypass the preamp on it and use various preamps on my helix.
Pro tip powered PA speakers are the exact same thing as an FRFR Cabinet. Behringer makes some that cost way less than any FRFR cabinet on the market. There are also plenty powerful enough for any stage volume.
I use a Boss Katana 50 to practice at home with my Helix. I plug into the (power amp in) Jack behind the amp and that disables all the effects of the amp and turns the Katana into a powered speaker.
This is awesome! I have an Iridium and love it but had issues with it at Church. I did a lot of research on sound and DI boxes and ordered a Walrus Audio Canvas. It solved all my issues lol. Amp modelers have a low output already and DI boxes lower the impedance to the board, so they had to crank me on the board which created bad hum and feedback. A Line Isolator runs your signal hot without lowering the impedance so they were able to lower my output on the board, hence no more hum and feedback.
Exactly! And that’s not known and so people don’t know what they don’t know. Prime example right here! Totally get that. Was the same for me. Thanks for sharing!
I’ve used an old Behringer mixer for years to practice and monitor my Sunday tones. It’s got a L and R aux for my phone (with lightning adaptor) to monitor the tracks app. My Fm9 is just plugged stereo into the mixer via XLR. It works great!
For me, the powered mixer with quality headphones is the best route--but that’s what I’ve done for years (yes, since POD 2.0). I have everything flat and ask the sound guy at church to put everything flat. I also deal with two different locations, so each room sound is different. I’ve just learned that one location is brighter and the other is more “boomy” so I use EQ settings the best I can. I’ll have different saved presets just due to the different locations. I don’t think I can ever fully replicate my tone at home at church, but over time I feel I have gotten close.
I went down the rabbit hole on this, tried and returned different stuff, finally just took my stomp into the Guitar Center to test it on everything, and I found the perfect output solution for modelers. QSC K12.2... You're welcome
seems like every service, I start from ground zero. I tweak my setup at home based on last service, then dial it in at the run-thru. Key thing is to know your equipment, your sound engineer, band mates & the room. Also I make an iPhone (side-mid mic) recording on the stage for a reality check & listen till the next service. Volume was a very good point. Makes a big difference. Back to practice. 🙂
Since I have bought my Helix years ago. I went in thinking that it will be my preamps (I use the amps with cabs off) into a power into real cabs. I am still in love with 412 cabs. I use 90% of the time two 412 cabs running a mono wet/dry setup. I like one cab being G12K-85'S and one cab with two G12K-85'S in a X patter with two V30's. To me this is my Valhalla in tones. I can sound huge and fantastic with low volume, late night playing and when cranked up, sounds amazing. Just love it. FYI, the old G12K-85'S are so neutral sounding that every amp model of the Helix sounds fantastic..
Great video! Thanks for making this; it has helped me a lot at church when I realized that my tone sounded really different than in my headphones. Would you guys consider making a series on using budget guitars for P&W? The main brand I like to see y'all do is Eastcoast and Sire. Thank you!!
If you get a Boss Katana, you can plug into the "power amp in" on the back and it turns into a FRFR speaker bypassing the preamp. That way you have a relatively inexpensive amp (and an incredibly versatile one at that), another fx unit if you want it, and a FRFR. I think the power amp in only comes on the mkII 100w 2x12 and the mkII artist (don't quote me, do your research). I know for sure that the Boss Katana Artist MKII has the power amp in because I've used mine with the Helix Floors at church as a FRFR. There are a ton of videos on RUclips that explain this if you're interested.
The 50W MKII also has a power amp in. I use it with my pedalboard which has a UAFX Dream 65. It gives you the best of both worlds (modelling amp and powered speaker). It certainly does an excellent job as an FRFR which I validate by the fact that when I plug direct to FOH at my church, there is very little tweaking that is needed. It is a very affordable option as well.
Yes yes yes. I use an old 2 channel crate acoustic amp. I can use it with the crate full range speaker or bypass to a greenback cab. I just toggle the soeaker sim in my Headrush. Love it.
Planning for the future and “good” quality is key… there’s often a good value price point, and then price really increases. Good combo: UA Volt, IEM 215s (which double as at home hearing and at church), and Canvas DI if the venue doesn’t have any
Speaking of DIs.....I run a 60W SuperSonic that is in an isocab in the rack room. From the room to my board, which is on the opposite side of the stage, is about 70-100 feet. I'm using a Radial for guitar; I think its the SG-1. I don't think I lose a lot of signal overall. As far as mix, it can be frustrating to spend the time to flesh more intricate parts only to have them buried in the mix. Might as well just play straight chords under the piano and vocals. When you have rotating FOH folks, it can be challenging.
Why I haven't upgraded from my mustang floor. Doesn't cost me a cent. Has xlr outs and sounds good. How I listen to it is through a clean amp. As far as on stage vs at home well, you have to be aware of the differences of the sound of the room/pa and however you listen to it at home and adjust accordingly
My buddy in HS had a 1980s Laney 300w amp head, that thing sounded awesome, no one wants to hear me that clearly including myself. When I hear people talking about how to make a guitar sound "bright" I'm reminded how weird it is discribing sounds, abstract simile referencing some other thing I'm often lost on what qualities are being being referenced.
Can we see a tutorial video on gain staging for the helix and how to set it for live setting? We use a Wing PA but it seems as though it’s not reflecting the same guitar tone it should be. This is after turning off compression eq and all that.
Solution: Buy some AKG's with a 1/4 in adapter, or what I have and recommend is studio headphones, like my DT770 pro's. They come with an adapter to use 1/4in phones output on my POD GO wireless. I already had those + 2 PA speakers so this wasn't an issue. Wow I sound stupid for a 19 year old lol. I do think for at home performing, buy some studio headphones with 1/4 inch cord.
Great content and conversation Definitely some hidden costs But man is it well worth it. I love my fractal fm9. Fucking amazing. Nothing touches it besides the actually axe effects 3. When the axe effects 4 comes out I’m getting it
The DSM Humboldt Electronics Simplifier is my all in one solution for my pedalboard. It has a headphone out for use at home and a stereo XLR and 1/4 “ jack outs. It also fixed the fact that our church doesn’t allow amps and it lets me skip a DI.
Great video! Question for Bradford! I know it’s a strange question considering we are in a guitar video but what is that shirt that you are wearing? It looks great! We have similar body types and I’ve been wanting a shirt like that
In order to get the best sound out of your headphones - use an amp modelling unit that has a send return so you can run your wet effects "after" the amp - Boss IR200...
Oh Lord! I so agree and relate to channel setup on the FOH board. Huge pain point. Make a video with your church live mix engineer guys on this we can share.. 🙏
I picked up an HX Stomp Christmas of 23. I have a more traditional setup, amp, pedalboard ect. I did not think one bit about how i was gonna listen to the stomp. Never occurred to me. It has been frustrating and i feel like i made a purchase mistake. I do use it for effects only into my amp but I was thinking I would use it as a light weight rig. I don’t have studio monitors, wired headphones or frfr, the church i play at does not have monitors, (i know, but we are small). Every time I am on the verge of sinking money into monitoring i say to myself, I already have a great amp and pedal board. I can navigate amps and effects pedals, but headphones and frfr speakers are a foreign world to me.
I don't see the big deal with Helix style units. What is different from all the other Boss, Zoom, and Digitech multi-effects units that have been out for decades? I am impressed with IR loader type units! They make your dry signal into a mixing board sound like you recorded it from an amp.
Honestly with everything in life, when something is serviceable, it’s good enough. HX Stomp gets me 90% there. No matter how good, the old folks are still gonna complain lol
We have a Mooer250 and have been trying to find a way of running into the mixer and through the PAs…not getting a good sound. Wondering if you guys have any tips.
They really provided tons of tips on this video. One I highly recommend is to definitely create 2 separate presets. One called Studio and one called Live. If you play live, immediately remove Bass around 100 hz I think and highs, treble. Increase mids to like 7. This will get you in the ballpark. You will definitely hear the difference playing live!
Im wondering what output setting to use out the HX Stomp. Gauging to understand which to use at our church. Line or Instrument level output to FOH via DI?
I don’t even own an amp anymore. I use line 6 and other analog amp sims. I have a solid pa at home, and a 4x12 cab. Amps are a complete rip off. You can get an extremely high quality pa way cheaper, which is going to sound better anyway, since you’ll be used to hearing a mics/direct sound.
I don’t think I agree with you guys on your assessment of why FRFR speakers exist. It seems to me that they are just a re-branding of PA speakers to sell them to the modeler crowd. I mean, in theory, a good PA speakers should be full range and flat response. Because of the increasing size of the market for the monitoring device for guitar modelers, companies like Friedman and Headrush have entered the fray, but it is pretty clear to me that their speakers are doing the exact same thing as a PA speaker. People like Line 6 have made Products that are an evolution of the idea, such as the power cab, which can function as a very loud PA speaker style monitoring system, but it can also model guitar speakers.
So true. But remember they gave to do this as it brings food to the table to many employees. You are just aware, so you just buy a cheap Beringher PA full range speaker with built in amp and rock on happily praising God!❤
@@musicman4christjesus absolutely. I am not saying that they are wrong to do what they are doing. I just think it is good for us to be have all the info about what we are buying.
So I purchased an inexpensive low latency Bluetooth transmitter, plug that into headphone jack of my helix, then pair my low latency Bluetooth headphones, and it works perfectly! You just have to find headphones and transmitter with compatible AptX low latency version and you should be good to go.
Is an Acoustic Amp a FRFR/Mini PA system? I plugged my HX stomp into the effects return of my Fender Acoustasonic Jr. and it does work, maybe not the best quality sound
I'm using some cheap Edifiers at home and I want to upgrade them to get a better reference of my Helix. Any suggestions? maybe JBL LSR 305? I tend to use some Shure SRH440 headphones.
So plot twist what if your rig sounds great at church but just so so at home? Running Dual Tonex though a Diso+ > Scarlet interface > out through two Rokit 7 KRKs. I’m thinking it could be the DAW?
DAW wouldn’t be the issue. Rokits are notorious for adding low-end and your room not being treated could account for what you’re hearing. It’s not a cheap thing to do so we are saying to take notes of the differences you hear and account for that. I’d apply an EQ to the channels you are running thru your DAW to get things sounding as you like for practice. I wouldn’t adjust your ToneX units to keep things consistent between home and church.
I appreciate the topic since I am considering getting a Tonex. I want to use headphones on it so thanks for covering that topic. I would like to also have something that can play RUclips go to the tonex and be able to listen to the guitar and RUclips lessons through the headphones. Do you know if that is possible?
I run my amp at church. What is the easiest way to get good tone at home! I’m a dad of three! I can’t crank my 410 deville lol. I just want great at home silent hook up and able to listen to tracks
You will find FRFRs for that price, though they won't be perfect. I had Alto TX-something and ended up selling it (sounded meh) for Headrush 108, but if you need just monitoring and the sound is from PA only, you'll be okay. Just ignore all the marketing-bubble that arose from modellers, search for a regular small PA speaker.
I'm not Christian, I'm not religious but I watch a lot of worship music tutorials because they are the closest to the kind of music I like: peaceful, melodic, anti-metal.
Hey Brian & Brad ...we call you guys as (B2) B Square ..cause of 2 B s 🙂..well quick thank you note for the useful content...u guys put in a ton of work... I am from India moved to Sydney ..and I have always been playing yamaha pacifica 611/612 & 311 H with a combo of Boss Gt 100 & ..there are very less content on these products & I believe there is less community as well. Can you please check out on these . Regards Reeves
21:05 I’ll say it for you. Most sound people don’t know what they’re doing. Paid and unpaid. Churches will actually pay people to install it correctly, but many FOH people have no clue and the people hiring them have no idea that they don’t know lol
Biggest cost to a Helix, Kemper, FM9 et al is that you gotta by 2 (1 for backup). For a church live setting, all you need are 2 channels: 1) JHS Morning Glory into a Vertex SSS into a Cabzeus (2X12 open back Greenbacks). 2) JHS 9 knob Angry Charlie into Cabzeus 4X12 closes back Vin 30s. I use Keeley Caverns, JHS Panther Cub V2 & Walrus Audio Slö. Mesa Boogie Clear Links rock. Wavs Custom molded IEMs (Cabzeus headphone jack).
Make sure your IEMs are reference caliber. The best thing a church can do is buy a cheaper system and pay for a professional to mediate unwanted frequencies with dampening products and then eq the speakers.
Reaper is not free. $60 for the license, cheaper than most guitar pedals out there. Unless you like being a dishonest person and keep hitting the “still evaluating” button forever.
Nobody buys a guitar effect/modeler/pedal whatever if they don't know how to listen to it - this discussion is too far removed from reality and makes no sense at all. The only thing that is really relevant is the question of how do I get my home studio sound on stage.
Why do I enjoy this format better than previous discussions on this channel? You guys sound great and I love the conversation.
This is such a valuable conversation. I have spent years as the Front of House engineer and now am back onstage playing EG and love talking to the Tech team and livestream folk. They get onboard pretty quick when I say "I want to learn how to make their job easier". In my FOH days I had the opportunity to counsel guitarists through the grief they felt when they listened back to the livestream mix. You nailed it on the head when you brought up getting to know the effect of the acoustic nature of your rehearsal space and perceived volume.
As both a stage musician and a sound guy, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with the idea of showing up early! Our typical rehearsal starts at 7 and we have musicians that roll in either right at 7 (or often 5-10 minutes AFTER, during first song), then set up, then complain that their sound isn't what they want! Everyone, PLEASE show up early, make sure your gear is working and that the sound crew has a chance to get your piece of the puzzle sounding good before the rehearsal starts.
One thing to think about when trying to figure out why the guitar sound is better at home than it is at church. When you're at home, you have the entire sonic space to occupy with no competition. The natural instinct is to add bass and treble and scoop the mids so that the sound feels bigger. But when you play that sound in a full band, now you are competing with drums, bass, keyboards, singers, other guitars, etc. Your sound is trying to occupy the same sonic space that those other instruments are. For your guitar to cut through, you need to cut the bass and some of the treble and add mid-range frequencies. Great mixes usually have each instrument occupying a narrow frequency range so they don't compete with the other instruments as much.
This is so true!
I posted about this in other threads and videos of WT.
First ring I ask the sound engineer is to please remove any type of EQ from my channel. Flat zero everything! Usually they comply especially if you are nice and humble. 😊❤ but, that is massively important because your tone will definitely suffer if they don't!
I love what you guys said about being nice to the FOH guys. They definitely have lots of folks screaming at them from stage, so asking them ahead of time and explaining that you have already twekwd the tone and applied all sorts of EQ on your digital pedalboard. They know that adding additional EQ will totally ruin stuff. I also add a lot of mids to my tone. You have to have 2 types of presets. One for home use and one for Live use. That's how I do it. I tweak it at home and get it as close to how i like it, the re-tweak it live if possible then save it it as Live in the preset name. Believe me, it works! Add mids at home, reduce Bass and Treble, and you will sound amazing once the band starts playing!
Man, this is so true. I added a pricey Line 6 FRFR speaker to my Helix last year which has helped tremendously. But hey, on the other side, I now save hours of doom scrolling for the next great pedal and/or amp that will finally make me a good player :) I sold my moderate pedal rig years ago, bought a Helix and put money in the bank.
My budget worship team guitarist set up living in an apparment:
Boss GX100 modeler with fx: $600
Bluetooth adapter for the GX100: $60
AKG studio headphones: $75
I stream music via Bluetooth from my phone to the pedal. Then watch Worship Tutorials to see fingers play riffs. Play along and listen over the headphones. The Boss pedal also has a looper so I can practice soloing over the chord progression.Bonus, my patches sound pretty close at Church to the headphones by the Sovereignty of Almighty God. Amen.
Been doing this since the 70s (I’m old). You guys should show examples of what you’re talking about for the younger guys. E.G. What is XLR, DI, etc.
I chose the Valeton GP-200 just because it was the only ‘affordable’ multi effects unit that had xlr outs so I could plug the cable from the board straight in. While it has worked I’m not overly impressed with the delays and reverbs in the Valeton. I’m now starting to build a small board around a DSM & Humboldt Simplifier mk2 (also chosen for the xlrs) with a few select pedals to get a ‘better’ sound. While this may or may not work it is not to be confused with a cheaper option!
I’ve also just invested in a wireless system for the guitar so I can walk off the stage and in front of the PA in the practice and get a better understanding of how my guitar sounds to the congregation rather than how it sounds in my iems. It also allows me to chat to the well meaning sound engineer so they get an idea of what I’m after!
The biggest thing a DI gives you is protection against phantom power frying your modeller. I have 2 1/4" to XLR cables, which I could use to run stereo from my Stomp's balanced outs, straight into the desk, but I avoid this. Esp with a digital desk it's really easy to accidentally end up with phantom power (48V) send on your channel if the PA guy isnt totally on it. This will probably junk your modeller 😬 A DI will stop the 48V getting to you.
OMG this is so true.
I use my Kemper Stage at church. Output to FOH via xlr. Works great. For home rehearsal of Sunday tunes I run the Stage to my good old PC via usb and listen to Planning Center through my in ears, Shure SE-215s, which are plugged into the back of the Kemper. Easy peazy. Again, works great!
This is the reason I bought a Boss Katana 100 MKII instead of HX Stomp or similar. I prefer the time based effects of Line 6 but the Katana has it all. So happy with all the routing options.
For my digital amps and modelers I use a small Mackie board using my IEM’s. This also gives Brian the flexibility to have an iPod for jam tracks.
Great video guys, here's my story if you are interested:
I was already down the rabbit hole without a light trying to figure out what I needed between my instruments and the amp/speaker when I first saw a RUclips post (2016) about the Helix. I quickly realized that I could do anything I was thinking about < wet-dry-wet, stereo amps, separate amps for different instruments and a couple of other dumb things I gave up on (I was just starting to understand about 'phase' issues) > without buying multiple different interfaces....the Helix had so many I/O's with everything connected/controlled in the box it was a no-brainer. All I had to think about at that point was types of cables and their length. Thanks for the time you put into this subject.
If you perform live, maintaining a back-up rig is a must, which adds costs. Even the best modelers can fail. I lived through this leading-up to last weekend's services when my modeler had to be shipped-out for warranty replacement days before. Good thing I could resurrect my old board with my favorite analog overdrives and an old HX Stomp XL. As much as I wished to have sold old equipment to fund the new modeler, I'm glad I didn't!
What's cool this days, is that one can have backup rig in form of $50 cheap audio interface, and a free DAW + laptop with some free amp sims and free plugin effects. Takes time to set up such project, but if it is needed sparingly, it's probably fine. I want to do something similar one day.
I was about to sell my analog pedals after I moved to a FAS Ax-8 for live worship. So glad I didn't. Although my AX-8 is solid as Tank! I started to put together a hybrid Analo/Digital pedalboard using an iPad/iPhone.
So all my analog drives go into a cheap USB interface Beringher UCA 202 to the iPad/iPhone which has all my delays, Pitch effects, Reverbs using either a mix of apps like AUM, Overloud-THU, Bias Effects 2, Eventide, Nembrini, etc! So this Setup is extremely flexible! I'm considering getting a better interface but little by little. It sounds amazing though now as is.
One solution that seems to be missing from the conversation (I skipped around a bit so I may have missed it) is playing these units through an amp and using the 4 cable method. A lot of people buying these already have amps, so it's no extra cost. I do this with my JCM 2000 and bypass the preamp on it and use various preamps on my helix.
Pro tip powered PA speakers are the exact same thing as an FRFR Cabinet. Behringer makes some that cost way less than any FRFR cabinet on the market. There are also plenty powerful enough for any stage volume.
I use a Boss Katana 50 to practice at home with my Helix. I plug into the (power amp in) Jack behind the amp and that disables all the effects of the amp and turns the Katana into a powered speaker.
Thanks for the tip! That's a great idea!!
Guys, gold info as usual. Min 21:00 is on the money.
This is awesome! I have an Iridium and love it but had issues with it at Church. I did a lot of research on sound and DI boxes and ordered a Walrus Audio Canvas. It solved all my issues lol.
Amp modelers have a low output already and DI boxes lower the impedance to the board, so they had to crank me on the board which created bad hum and feedback. A Line Isolator runs your signal hot without lowering the impedance so they were able to lower my output on the board, hence no more hum and feedback.
Exactly! And that’s not known and so people don’t know what they don’t know. Prime example right here! Totally get that. Was the same for me. Thanks for sharing!
Why walurus? Is expesive
I’ve used an old Behringer mixer for years to practice and monitor my Sunday tones. It’s got a L and R aux for my phone (with lightning adaptor) to monitor the tracks app. My Fm9 is just plugged stereo into the mixer via XLR. It works great!
For me, the powered mixer with quality headphones is the best route--but that’s what I’ve done for years (yes, since POD 2.0). I have everything flat and ask the sound guy at church to put everything flat. I also deal with two different locations, so each room sound is different. I’ve just learned that one location is brighter and the other is more “boomy” so I use EQ settings the best I can. I’ll have different saved presets just due to the different locations. I don’t think I can ever fully replicate my tone at home at church, but over time I feel I have gotten close.
Great subjects and discussion. I thoroughly enjoyed this and learn a few things. Thanks so much for posting.
I went down the rabbit hole on this, tried and returned different stuff, finally just took my stomp into the Guitar Center to test it on everything, and I found the perfect output solution for modelers. QSC K12.2... You're welcome
HEY Can y’all do a video on how to treat your room and any trick you might have learned over the years?
seems like every service, I start from ground zero. I tweak my setup at home based on last service, then dial it in at the run-thru. Key thing is to know your equipment, your sound engineer, band mates & the room. Also I make an iPhone (side-mid mic) recording on the stage for a reality check & listen till the next service. Volume was a very good point. Makes a big difference. Back to practice. 🙂
Frfr vs Studio Monitors comparison for Line 6 Helix would be cool!
Thank you so much for this pod cast!!! Very helpful!!! I just bought a Helix 6 and I am new Worship Leader. All this was so much helpful information.
Since I have bought my Helix years ago. I went in thinking that it will be my preamps (I use the amps with cabs off) into a power into real cabs. I am still in love with 412 cabs. I use 90% of the time two 412 cabs running a mono wet/dry setup. I like one cab being G12K-85'S and one cab with two G12K-85'S in a X patter with two V30's. To me this is my Valhalla in tones. I can sound huge and fantastic with low volume, late night playing and when cranked up, sounds amazing. Just love it. FYI, the old G12K-85'S are so neutral sounding that every amp model of the Helix sounds fantastic..
powercab+, studio monitors, powered monitors similar to headrush or the like. All good options.
Great video! Thanks for making this; it has helped me a lot at church when I realized that my tone sounded really different than in my headphones. Would you guys consider making a series on using budget guitars for P&W? The main brand I like to see y'all do is Eastcoast and Sire. Thank you!!
If you get a Boss Katana, you can plug into the "power amp in" on the back and it turns into a FRFR speaker bypassing the preamp. That way you have a relatively inexpensive amp (and an incredibly versatile one at that), another fx unit if you want it, and a FRFR. I think the power amp in only comes on the mkII 100w 2x12 and the mkII artist (don't quote me, do your research). I know for sure that the Boss Katana Artist MKII has the power amp in because I've used mine with the Helix Floors at church as a FRFR. There are a ton of videos on RUclips that explain this if you're interested.
The 50W MKII also has a power amp in. I use it with my pedalboard which has a UAFX Dream 65. It gives you the best of both worlds (modelling amp and powered speaker). It certainly does an excellent job as an FRFR which I validate by the fact that when I plug direct to FOH at my church, there is very little tweaking that is needed. It is a very affordable option as well.
If you have an acoustic amp you can run your modeler through that! Also works as a great bass amp! Essentially it’s a mini PA..
I’m interested in this concept. Have you tested it? If so, what have you used?
Yes yes yes. I use an old 2 channel crate acoustic amp. I can use it with the crate full range speaker or bypass to a greenback cab. I just toggle the soeaker sim in my Headrush. Love it.
I wouldn't rely on playing rock through acoustic guitar speakers. EV EKX 12' s and Friedmans are much better than Behringer speakers.
Planning for the future and “good” quality is key… there’s often a good value price point, and then price really increases. Good combo: UA Volt, IEM 215s (which double as at home hearing and at church), and Canvas DI if the venue doesn’t have any
Speaking of DIs.....I run a 60W SuperSonic that is in an isocab in the rack room. From the room to my board, which is on the opposite side of the stage, is about 70-100 feet. I'm using a Radial for guitar; I think its the SG-1. I don't think I lose a lot of signal overall. As far as mix, it can be frustrating to spend the time to flesh more intricate parts only to have them buried in the mix. Might as well just play straight chords under the piano and vocals. When you have rotating FOH folks, it can be challenging.
Very good topic. I’d love to see a series of “this is what I use for… and why”
FRFR is full range flat response, right?
Yes, correct.
"What happens when I get there and it doesn't sound anything [like at home]?"
I feel so seen.
Why I haven't upgraded from my mustang floor. Doesn't cost me a cent. Has xlr outs and sounds good. How I listen to it is through a clean amp. As far as on stage vs at home well, you have to be aware of the differences of the sound of the room/pa and however you listen to it at home and adjust accordingly
I've had good luck with 8in studio monitors with Helix. Helps me since I'm usually working on the patches and rehearsing using my desktop.
Sennheiser makes some good neutral studio headphones. I use the HD560s ($150) and they are excellent.
Am at the point where I need to get a modeler or pedal. This video is helpful. God bless
My buddy in HS had a 1980s Laney 300w amp head, that thing sounded awesome, no one wants to hear me that clearly including myself. When I hear people talking about how to make a guitar sound "bright" I'm reminded how weird it is discribing sounds, abstract simile referencing some other thing I'm often lost on what qualities are being being referenced.
Can we see a tutorial video on gain staging for the helix and how to set it for live setting? We use a Wing PA but it seems as though it’s not reflecting the same guitar tone it should be. This is after turning off compression eq and all that.
Just an FYI if being nice/ buying your sound man stuff doesn’t work, just be an absolute DIVA, it works every time.
No no no 😂😂😂
Since helix I've bought - Studio monitors, inears, open back headphones, PA system, & COUNTLESS patches and IRs
Solution: Buy some AKG's with a 1/4 in adapter, or what I have and recommend is studio headphones, like my DT770 pro's. They come with an adapter to use 1/4in phones output on my POD GO wireless. I already had those + 2 PA speakers so this wasn't an issue. Wow I sound stupid for a 19 year old lol. I do think for at home performing, buy some studio headphones with 1/4 inch cord.
Great content and conversation Definitely some hidden costs But man is it well worth it. I love my fractal fm9. Fucking amazing. Nothing touches it besides the actually axe effects 3. When the axe effects 4 comes out I’m getting it
The DSM Humboldt Electronics Simplifier is my all in one solution for my pedalboard. It has a headphone out for use at home and a stereo XLR and 1/4 “ jack outs. It also fixed the fact that our church doesn’t allow amps and it lets me skip a DI.
Great video! Question for Bradford! I know it’s a strange question considering we are in a guitar video but what is that shirt that you are wearing? It looks great! We have similar body types and I’ve been wanting a shirt like that
In order to get the best sound out of your headphones - use an amp modelling unit that has a send return so you can run your wet effects "after" the amp - Boss IR200...
I have two studio headphones an open back Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO 250 and close back Audio Technica ATH-M50
Oh Lord! I so agree and relate to channel setup on the FOH board. Huge pain point. Make a video with your church live mix engineer guys on this we can share.. 🙏
I picked up an HX Stomp Christmas of 23. I have a more traditional setup, amp, pedalboard ect. I did not think one bit about how i was gonna listen to the stomp. Never occurred to me. It has been frustrating and i feel like i made a purchase mistake. I do use it for effects only into my amp but I was thinking I would use it as a light weight rig. I don’t have studio monitors, wired headphones or frfr, the church i play at does not have monitors, (i know, but we are small). Every time I am on the verge of sinking money into monitoring i say to myself, I already have a great amp and pedal board. I can navigate amps and effects pedals, but headphones and frfr speakers are a foreign world to me.
hey Bradford, Check out the DBX DI4. It’s a 4 Channel DI with a stereo headphone mixer built in that runs off a pedal power supply
With my Helix LT I use Sony Studio headphones or my Presonus studio monitor speakers.
I don't see the big deal with Helix style units. What is different from all the other Boss, Zoom, and Digitech multi-effects units that have been out for decades? I am impressed with IR loader type units! They make your dry signal into a mixing board sound like you recorded it from an amp.
This video is the perfect reason I’m discouraged from getting back into playing at church
Honestly with everything in life, when something is serviceable, it’s good enough. HX Stomp gets me 90% there. No matter how good, the old folks are still gonna complain lol
We have a Mooer250 and have been trying to find a way of running into the mixer and through the PAs…not getting a good sound. Wondering if you guys have any tips.
They really provided tons of tips on this video.
One I highly recommend is to definitely create 2 separate presets. One called Studio and one called Live.
If you play live, immediately remove Bass around 100 hz I think and highs, treble. Increase mids to like 7. This will get you in the ballpark. You will definitely hear the difference playing live!
Awesome discussion
Im wondering what output setting to use out the HX Stomp. Gauging to understand which to use at our church. Line or Instrument level output to FOH via DI?
What is your Helix bundle with Sweetwater? Is there anywhere to hear it?
Thank you so much guys !!
The Sony mdr 7506 are pretty good for monitoring as well
I don’t even own an amp anymore. I use line 6 and other analog amp sims. I have a solid pa at home, and a 4x12 cab. Amps are a complete rip off. You can get an extremely high quality pa way cheaper, which is going to sound better anyway, since you’ll be used to hearing a mics/direct sound.
or a simple solution run your modeler into an amp and set all the tone controls on the amp at 12 oclock
I'm probably going to go with something like a Bose S1 pro or maybe EV 30m.
I don’t think I agree with you guys on your assessment of why FRFR speakers exist. It seems to me that they are just a re-branding of PA speakers to sell them to the modeler crowd.
I mean, in theory, a good PA speakers should be full range and flat response.
Because of the increasing size of the market for the monitoring device for guitar modelers, companies like Friedman and Headrush have entered the fray, but it is pretty clear to me that their speakers are doing the exact same thing as a PA speaker. People like Line 6 have made Products that are an evolution of the idea, such as the power cab, which can function as a very loud PA speaker style monitoring system, but it can also model guitar speakers.
So true. But remember they gave to do this as it brings food to the table to many employees. You are just aware, so you just buy a cheap Beringher PA full range speaker with built in amp and rock on happily praising God!❤
@@musicman4christjesus absolutely. I am not saying that they are wrong to do what they are doing. I just think it is good for us to be have all the info about what we are buying.
So I purchased an inexpensive low latency Bluetooth transmitter, plug that into headphone jack of my helix, then pair my low latency Bluetooth headphones, and it works perfectly! You just have to find headphones and transmitter with compatible AptX low latency version and you should be good to go.
Interesting, how much latency do you have? I've found that anything above 10 ms is a no-go for me.
I compared the Helix volume to my GT1000 and HeadRush because they were properly gain staged. Now, the Helix is also gain staged.
Is an Acoustic Amp a FRFR/Mini PA system? I plugged my HX stomp into the effects return of my Fender Acoustasonic Jr. and it does work, maybe not the best quality sound
yall are so helpful oh ma goodness
I'm using some cheap Edifiers at home and I want to upgrade them to get a better reference of my Helix. Any suggestions? maybe JBL LSR 305? I tend to use some Shure SRH440 headphones.
So plot twist what if your rig sounds great at church but just so so at home?
Running Dual Tonex though a Diso+ > Scarlet interface > out through two Rokit 7 KRKs. I’m thinking it could be the DAW?
DAW wouldn’t be the issue. Rokits are notorious for adding low-end and your room not being treated could account for what you’re hearing. It’s not a cheap thing to do so we are saying to take notes of the differences you hear and account for that. I’d apply an EQ to the channels you are running thru your DAW to get things sounding as you like for practice. I wouldn’t adjust your ToneX units to keep things consistent between home and church.
I appreciate the topic since I am considering getting a Tonex. I want to use headphones on it so thanks for covering that topic. I would like to also have something that can play RUclips go to the tonex and be able to listen to the guitar and RUclips lessons through the headphones. Do you know if that is possible?
Yeah - Slow Gear just released a product called the pedalboard headphone amp. It’s perfect for what you want to do.
You guys are really helpful. I like you
When will we get some covers from elevations newest album?
We got a few ready to go 👍🏼
Great video!
Kemper Poweramp! 🥇
I run my amp at church. What is the easiest way to get good tone at home! I’m a dad of three! I can’t crank my 410 deville lol. I just want great at home silent hook up and able to listen to tracks
Easiest? Two Notes Captor or UA Ox Box. Cheapest? 😅😅😅
@hermonoetim mesa can clone
Hi guys. I've watched alot of your tutorials. Could u guys do All I need is you by hillsongs
All I want is a small wedge shaped FRFR speaker for about $200 that I can use as a personal monitor. Is that so much to ask?!
Haha I don’t know if it’s too much to ask but the Headrush FRFR is close to that price.
You will find FRFRs for that price, though they won't be perfect. I had Alto TX-something and ended up selling it (sounded meh) for Headrush 108, but if you need just monitoring and the sound is from PA only, you'll be okay. Just ignore all the marketing-bubble that arose from modellers, search for a regular small PA speaker.
Anyone know what light bar thing is behind them?
I'm not Christian, I'm not religious but I watch a lot of worship music tutorials because they are the closest to the kind of music I like: peaceful, melodic, anti-metal.
Thanks!
Hey Brian & Brad ...we call you guys as (B2) B Square ..cause of 2 B s 🙂..well quick thank you note for the useful content...u guys put in a ton of work...
I am from India moved to Sydney ..and I have always been playing yamaha pacifica 611/612 & 311 H with a combo of Boss Gt 100 & ..there are very less content on these products & I believe there is less community as well.
Can you please check out on these .
Regards
Reeves
21:05 I’ll say it for you. Most sound people don’t know what they’re doing. Paid and unpaid. Churches will actually pay people to install it correctly, but many FOH people have no clue and the people hiring them have no idea that they don’t know lol
First!
Praise the lord
Biggest cost to a Helix, Kemper, FM9 et al is that you gotta by 2 (1 for backup).
For a church live setting, all you need are 2 channels: 1) JHS Morning Glory into a Vertex SSS into a Cabzeus (2X12 open back Greenbacks). 2) JHS 9 knob Angry Charlie into Cabzeus 4X12 closes back Vin 30s.
I use Keeley Caverns, JHS Panther Cub V2 & Walrus Audio Slö.
Mesa Boogie Clear Links rock.
Wavs Custom molded IEMs (Cabzeus headphone jack).
Make sure your IEMs are reference caliber.
The best thing a church can do is buy a cheaper system and pay for a professional to mediate unwanted frequencies with dampening products and then eq the speakers.
The only hidden cost of the Helix is an expression pedal. You must take time to set it up.
Who in this world buys a pedal like a acs1 or tonex and runs it alone? Headphone jack shouldn't be an issue.
Monoprice has wonderful headphones less than $50.
One of the reasons churches lack people with knowledge who are willing to help is that they tend to treat us poorly.
Reaper is not free. $60 for the license, cheaper than most guitar pedals out there. Unless you like being a dishonest person and keep hitting the “still evaluating” button forever.
Yea bought a Helix and then realized I need decent speakers to not blow out my ears lol
Nobody buys a guitar effect/modeler/pedal whatever if they don't know how to listen to it - this discussion is too far removed from reality and makes no sense at all.
The only thing that is really relevant is the question of how do I get my home studio sound on stage.
That’s some nice gear, guys! I need to find a way to force taxpayers to subsidise my personal hobbies, too … 🤔
Thanks! We’re not a church or non profit. We buy the gear and pay taxes like everyone else…
You do need an apartment and pay rent lol jk
Love the format - appreciate you brothers!!