Outside of the Steamdeck, this still hasn't materialized 8 years after this talk. I'm not holding my breath. ...Actually, Microsoft may be the ones that bring Linux (the kernel) to the desktop by way of merging it with Windows.
"I didn't really read the guidelines." - the creator of Linux and Git I love this guy. He's brutally honest and what makes him special is how practical he is. It's refreshing to see someone who is technical but sees the system from an average user's perspective.
Also jeez, these people need to stop arguing with Torvalds about him insulting people. This is about the Linux kernel and it's distributions, not problems with Torvalds.
yes but it is necessary. We have shit from the 1970s that works REALLY well with today's stuff and that is amazing. The extent of hardware it all works on is well worth it. I can jump on a Pentium PRO box vs a Core i7 box and run VERY similar software albeit at different speeds, but it not only works, but works well together. The result of your hard work maintaining legacy code cuts down on e-waste drastically. I mean drastically. Legacy is important. @@MamboBean343
Fork it. Move on. Legacy actual bug support is silly on so many levels. People shouldn't be developing for loophole flaws in the first place, not for stability nor sound functional foundations to build off of. It's legitimately crazy if your goal is making the best OS platform you can. Linux isn't Windows on either side of the spectrum (legacy vs. the socially engineered); it's its own spectrum.
To clarify, yes, don't break user space functionality, absolutely, but give them the opportunity to move forward in a sound way with relevant warnings upfront, not automatic implementation with only an afterthought. It's proactive programming for a better system potential as a whole vs. complacency.
Well put. If a loophole can be closed without sacrificing something, it should be done. Documentation is the most important thing above anything else. That way whomever comes after can pick up either where you left off or where you didn't want to go and go where you didn't have the energy while keeping your philosophy in mind. @@WR3ND
From this Q&A, I got that Linus really cares about the users and isn't one of those idiots that thinks having to deal with bugs and difficult installations builds "character"
This guy is far from the abrasive/abusive character he's been built up as. He just takes his passion seriously and isn't willing to compromise on the things he finds important. Some of his quotations may seem abusive and arrogant on paper, but when you hear his delivery and the way he speaks, he doesn't appear like that at all, but rather comes off as a down-to-earth person with a sense of humour. He actually looks relatively meek and humble. I've seen people with accomplishments and stations far lesser and lower than his, with an incomparably more inflated sense of ego, and a much more difficult and toxic personality. Linus's insults are far milder than the average level of insults in other professions: I just get the feeling the software development and IT community isn't used to anything outside of completely dry, religiously civil and sterile discourse with anodyne humour.
I don’t have an issue with most of his behavior but some of it is unprofessional. Whether or not that is an issue is a different story, but there’s no question that cursing and personal attacks on people are unprofessional, no matter how mild.
he said someone should be retroactively aborted and he's surprised they couldn't find their mother's tit. that's blatantly being an asshole - whether or not you tolerate it is up to you
People need to realize that Linus is not a Systems Engineer nor a UNIX engineer. He writes kernel code. People who do this for a living want a machine configured for them.
This Q & A session highlights one of the things I absolutely *admire* about Linus: He is just so goddam practical! Whenever I get the temptation to ignore the actual real world, as it *actually* is, I just need to watch a talk from Linus to get my head straight again. It's not an antithesis to idealism, but when you marry the two you get pragmatism, which at the end of the day tends to produce the best results, methinks.
He's not practical; he's dogmatic. His adherence to his expressed principles appears to provide more in terms of moral satisfaction than actual utility to the kernel. His fervor about the matter shows that he does not have data by which to demonstrate the utility of his position.
Lol. As a German I'm feeling exhausted by people criticizing Linus for his behaviour. It's a v different culture than English speaking ones like UK, US. For us truth is respect. Phony politeness without meaning it- well, phony. Off putting. Creating distrust even at times. Critism helps grow. Blunt critism when talking to a person you have no other relation to except through tec is fine. It's not like Linus is walking down the street insulting random people. He gives feedback, unmasked and sometimes unasked. German, Polish, Russian, French , Italian. .... even Chinese- none would ever have a problem with this. Maybe what's the problem is a lack of understanding of different cultures and mindsets coming from different angles. And for that I can only encourage traveling and living in non English speaking countries for those with English as their first language. I'm certain that would massively help understand.
What are you talking about? Germany is a totally pussified country by now, destroyed by political correctness. You can't even say what you think without going to jail. You even censored your own anthem not to offend foreigners. Maybe YOU are honest and care about truth, your country certainly doesn't.
@@lucioinnocenzo2328 OMG the only pussy here is you, crying about an obscure steal of free speech, spoken out freely by and probably without reflecting enough on yourself before. Go follow your alt-right bullshit but PLEASE don't give up upon growing up, because being empathic and nice IS NOT a weakness, it is a complete natural skill you should adopt while growing adult. There is no choice between being nice and being honest and I guess and hope that because of your rational thinking (that you are probably are so proud of) you will sooner or later get this point. :)
Personally, I like Torvalds' invective. I find it imaginative and interesting, and then people move on. Or they don't move on and get stuck on the words rather than the technical argument.
This man might not be the most polite out there. But the kind of articles people put up straight up smearing what kind of man he is is what made me realise, something is really fucked up about our drive for inclusiveness. It is being driven by demonizing people instead of talking to them with empathy, and these are the people who are trying to preach empathy
He has humility, humor, and honesty. Each of those is worth more than 'polite' by my standard. Being abrasive buffers you from insufferable overly-sensitive fools that care about such things more than actual productivity. P.C. should stand for personal computer, not "politically correct"-- that's a language of authoritative control.
"Respect is something that is earned, Respect is not something to just be given"... "That" is why Linus Torvalds is a success in his field, and is why these people are standing in line to ask him a question, and not the other way around...
@@meathead919 Contrary to most other people he is HONEST. What matters are the facts, not the words. It's his right to have a controversial sense of humor. Look at what Linus did throughout his life, and what most of those politically correct people do! A world with more people like Linus and less political correctness (because kids take offense) would most likely be far better!
“Respect is earned, not given.” Love this explanation from Linus. Pretty much, you are given respect when you earn it. You can tell how many people are soft and won’t handle failure well. I agree with Linus and it’s rewarding 2 fold. When people recognize your hard work and efforts, they will support you and motivate you to succeed. When you get the recognition from your hard work, you yourself will feel appreciated and will strive to do better. Just imagine if everyone got a raise, or if everyone was promoted, regardless if someone works or is lazy. This would defeat the purpose of healthy comptetition. Glad to see Linus upset the soy mindsets in Portalnd during this conference.
I fell on this video while pulling my hair out trying to make something work on linux and it felt like every issue i have ever had with linux writ large. It is beautiful.
WHY DID I ENJOY THIS SO MUCH??? I've always had reservations about Linux based OS, mainly because of what I considered over-hyped security and eccentric interface controls. I was overly pleased to hear that Linus himself has had issues with specifically the security wing of development. The man really is amazing. He talks bluntly and has no fear of what he says. It's not about being politically correct, it about saying whats downright true. Even better is to see a few butthurt in the crowd, those that actually took offense to what he said.
Common decency and proffessionalism are not the same thing as respect (I feel most people are arguing semantics in disguise here). While all those things are valuable, they are not neccessities, one might place the virtue of truth above them and who's to say this is wrong? It is a matter of taste. I think people just get sour when a person they've revered has disappointed them. You might agree that false altruism may be considered by some to be a worse trait than brutal honesty.
@Yahmez Just so. Linus is just giving his practical use opinion and some tough love, though I'd argue that he does seem a little bit like a shark lost in the woods here, to be honest.
Linus is so true on ABI compatibility for user apps. The Win32 API is basically stable since 1995, that like roughly 20 years... Yeah, start that simple C program from 1995, thats ok, but how about that Loki games from the 2000s?
Hearing Linus complain about software packaging and ABI breakages now, in a world where Flatpak (and Snap, to an extent) has made shipping Linux software a breeze, is simply prophetic.
Soon we will have a society where everyone will be required to talk to each in baby talk by law. When a deadline needs to be meet and a department is falling behind, the meeting will go something like this: "Can you little angles please try to get the product finished in time? Pwueesee? You're all perfect responsible geniuses. It's not your fault the projects falling behind. We hired a team of HR specialists to find who ever is causing the problem. You all can have a 3 day weekend so you don't feel responsible or guilty. Remember you're all angles and prodigies." A few generations of that and society will catastrophically fail and humanity will plunge back into the dark ages. :)
Tyler Zambori Are you actually that emotionally unstable and sensetive that you'd sue a man over some harsh words? Grow the fuck up and grow a pair while you're at it, fucking hell people like you is what's wrong with this world, grown men with the emotional stability and "skin" of a kindergartner, I guess you are the result of "poor" overprotective parrenting popular in the 21 century where everyone is a special little snowflake, well welcome to life it fucking sucks but deal with it, furthermore if people do not like working with Linus that's their problem, as he pointed out, there's other open source projects out there, they can choose who to work with freely. I think ***** summed it up quite well there, society as a whole is getting too sensetive to everything. Gonna try and sue me now for being harsh to you on the internet :D
Now you're just making things up to defend your pathetic stance on the initial subject while mixing in contrived buzzwords, which all further manifests your weak-mindedness. Have you ever considered that suing an open-source software organization over some flame post in a VCS commit message is absurd? Have you looked into the human and environmental damage large micro processor manufactures get away with? If there's a reason to sue it's on something of that scale.
The problem with linux is that a lot of the end user software just isnt very good. Hes also completely right about the multiple distribution thing, as a developer why the hell do i have to target distributions with their own pet packaging requirements rather than just “linux”. End users dont care but they put the responsibility onto me and i then have to worry about quirks of a particular distribution rather than my application.
@@testtestsson4927 Sure, those options are there but it's not just these technical challenges. Testing is more complex, with many more permutations. Dealing with a customer problem is more complicated. Which distro are you running, what desktop env ... etc. It's just a hugely difficult and complex platform to support as a small commercial developer.
That feeling when you love computers and you listen to tech people talk about stuff you have no idea about but for some reason you still spend an hour plus listening to them and pretend you understand. Damn! I feel so dumb right now!!!! I gotta study computer science! Hopefully these kinds of discussions will make more sense in about 4-5 years time.
Linus is right in the packaging topic. While now there are working projects to fix the mullti distro deployment issue, it will take many years to get accepted and used as a main source of application instalation method. The other problem I see is the per distro packaging itself and how packages are splitted in minor minor ones. When you look at some packages, they have a main package, a config file package, a plugins or optional package, development (or debug) package, etc, etc. That splitting make sometimes installing packages, specially for development a pain. They should learn from Android, that when a user want an app, it should install the whole app, and not only the binaries. And until Linux distributions don't addressed that, imo there will have no desktop future.
Respect should be earned. I agree. But no one deserves _disrespect_ . At least he could have said something like "sorry, this is absolutely wrong, and does not meet our standards" in a review. In doing so, he won't be respectful towards that person. At the same time, he won't be disrespectful as well.
"if it's a bug people rely on then it's a feature" is one of the best software dev takes ive seen in a long time. (interestingly most of the good ones I've found come from Linus)
If Ubuntu listened to him they could be on MANY more personal machines. I took three random laptops from big retail stores and Ubuntu had graphic driver incompatibilities with ALL three. But, it looks like Ubuntu is retreating from being a desktop-oriented product anyway...
Well, it is good when compared to the 19th century or something like that. Although, of course, we coul'dve done waaay better. Especially in regards to big tech monopolizing politics and billionaires squeesing dollars from vulnerable people
A few of these Debian people come across as kind of cultish... yeah, Linus is somewhat abrasive but parts of this video made me acutely uncomfortable, lol. I have dabbled in OSS for years, and have found some of the culture takes itself way too seriously. Linus is obviously very confident in his abilities (yeah, probably some arrogance there) but I feel like he is just being pragmatic in identifying what's good about Linux distros versus what's lacking. I don't find it surprising that one of the primary figures in the OSS world isn't completely enamored with the developmental results of a bunch of off-shoot branches.
Eehh, what? @Taiho667 * Linus uses derogatory insults in disagreements. * Guy criticizes Linus for it. * Linus listen but ultimately disagrees. * Guy comes back with an honest question, showing no hard feelings, aggression or passive-aggression towards Linus' disagreement. * Linus answers the question sincerely without any hard feelings of the critique. It's literally how it's supposed to be. How can you be offended when Linus literally invited "controversial" questions/comments, and both parties played through the engagement diplomatically?
i might have missed something, but especially when addressing a person such as Linus, i would probably say, thank you for taking my question after saying my name.
I also agree with linus take on respect in his example. His work speaks for itself and does not need faux respect. Is he over the top and rude sometimes. Yeah. He admits it and so what. His genuineness is such a breath of fresh air EDIT: Thinking about this a bit more too. The chap who basically said words to the effect of 'hey your heading up something big here shouldn't you act like a bit less of a child'. Erm yes and no.... No because as far as commentating on the project he started and still coordinates he can say whatever the hell he wants. And yes in the sense that we all deserve to be treated on a personal level with respect. But also he's not talking to children. I really think he has little to apologise for. I mean at the end of the day he is running something that people input to voluntarily. If you don't like it, don't join in. If he were a manager or ceo and he spoke like that about his employees he should get some counselling. But the relationship is different.
LOL @ a nerd calling another nerd an alpha male If you use Linux, society automatically sees you as a beta male and a goddamn nerdy loser. All of you are nerds.
for anyone curious, it happened at 27:48 (also 14:35 there is a similar discussion which I presume is the reason he was upset) edit: at 41:15 he reappears again but I think he came back this time with question he was originally intending to make before he got pissed off, it has nothing to do with the previous shit.
Well considering that the steam runtime is running a ancient version of gtk and that some distributions can easily run steam games natively even though they're technically unsupportive means Linus is right Valve single handedly standardized the entire linux desktop range as they've essentially released the first massively successful cross-platform universal package manager. If valve could ever get a second wave of steam machines off the ground it could be epic
And lo and behold, Steam Deck is here and crushing the PC gaming market. With tons of games now playable on Linux. All thanks to Valve effort of believing in Linux and standardized things around it so regular end users don't have to deal with tinkering stuff.
on one hand I think it is ideal to approach technical disagreement with respect. on another, I think it is important to have thick skin, respectfully stand up, and just be professional and not work with the person when the opportunity presents itself.
The way I see it is you treat people with fairness and kindness but respect is something greater. You wouldn't hand the kid that mows your lawn a 10 dollar tip just cause he would have to do a fantastic job to earn those 10 extra bucks.
I tried Debian recently. Live cd didn’t boot, then I installed it using text installer and installed Demian didn’t boot either... So I installed Mint and it works great!
You know, to invite Linus as a guest speaker, and then continually attack him with belligerent questions shows a COMPLETE LACK OF RESPECT for the DebConf community. He is a guest at your event, learn some manners.
alexis uceda jara I posted my comment in English, meaning I speak English. I recognize the word "kernel" so I'm assuming it's something about the how he made the Linux kernel, but remember that Linux is defined by its kernel. A "Linux operating system" is simply an operating system that is built on the Linux kernel.
alexis uceda jara No. Android is Linux and runs no GNU software. GNU is just something that comes with a lot of Linux distros but it isn't inherently part of Linux. Google Translator's thing is pretty terrible, so if I misinterpret anything you say, that's why.
I personally think respect should be the default until someone loses it. Then by all means, disrespect them harshly. Be nice to strangers until they give you a reason to be an asshole. Or do what you want. I don't care that much. If someone outright disrespects me then that's just a helpful indicator that I shouldn't affiliate with them. So... there's always another way to deal with it. I like Linus, even if he can be rude. The man's passionate and I find that more important than how he "comes across". Thanks for Linux.
hahaahah linus my hero. as a kid everybody wanted to be superman... astronaut... jet fighter pilot.... linus was my hero, still is. the way he speaks and thinks will go down in history. like if you watch this dude's speeches in 4018 fsck debian, too difficult to install.... maybe it was microcare....
![Линус Торвальдс про Linux на десктопе [на русском] [debconf14]](/img/1.gif)
He said "I'm on record as saying that I think valve will save the Linux desktop"
And that's exactly what seems to be happening. Kinda crazy.
Interesting. I still have no idea what is Valve
It was said at 10:48, you might want to go back to 09:23 for a bit more context.
@@cryp0g00n4 Steam. Gaming.
Outside of the Steamdeck, this still hasn't materialized 8 years after this talk. I'm not holding my breath.
...Actually, Microsoft may be the ones that bring Linux (the kernel) to the desktop by way of merging it with Windows.
@@tomcooper9061 Exactly. Which is a superb plot twist on many many levels
"I didn't really read the guidelines."
- the creator of Linux and Git
I love this guy. He's brutally honest and what makes him special is how practical he is. It's refreshing to see someone who is technical but sees the system from an average user's perspective.
Also jeez, these people need to stop arguing with Torvalds about him insulting people. This is about the Linux kernel and it's distributions, not problems with Torvalds.
Linux kernel not all Linux .
@@user-ezxiao linux is the kernel
You obviously never saw Terry A. Davis.
Linux OS for the sake of Linux does not make sense... Worst thing is that late version of Ubuntu are broken in new ways.
"If it's a bug people rely on - it's not a bug, it's a feature."
What an awesome man
maintaining legacy code is _not fun_
yes but it is necessary. We have shit from the 1970s that works REALLY well with today's stuff and that is amazing. The extent of hardware it all works on is well worth it. I can jump on a Pentium PRO box vs a Core i7 box and run VERY similar software albeit at different speeds, but it not only works, but works well together. The result of your hard work maintaining legacy code cuts down on e-waste drastically. I mean drastically. Legacy is important. @@MamboBean343
Fork it. Move on. Legacy actual bug support is silly on so many levels. People shouldn't be developing for loophole flaws in the first place, not for stability nor sound functional foundations to build off of. It's legitimately crazy if your goal is making the best OS platform you can. Linux isn't Windows on either side of the spectrum (legacy vs. the socially engineered); it's its own spectrum.
To clarify, yes, don't break user space functionality, absolutely, but give them the opportunity to move forward in a sound way with relevant warnings upfront, not automatic implementation with only an afterthought. It's proactive programming for a better system potential as a whole vs. complacency.
Well put. If a loophole can be closed without sacrificing something, it should be done. Documentation is the most important thing above anything else. That way whomever comes after can pick up either where you left off or where you didn't want to go and go where you didn't have the energy while keeping your philosophy in mind. @@WR3ND
"I dislike black and white people" - Linus Torvalds, 2014.
he's into asian😂
Grey people all the way!
@@zyansheep Yellow, like neutral emojis
they had us in the first half, not gonna lie
NBC coverage: "Linus admitted "I dislike black (...) people"
"Respect is something that is earned not given". A quality of a real and honest person.
i love him being real rather than 'commercialized' fakes/respect
yeah yeah until he bends the knee with politicians claiming "social justice" AKA fascism
@@neuemage Thats his ultra-leftist daughter I guess
Its so refreshing, im so tired of robot PR men
@erik masterchef fascism is not exclusive to a political bent
that got my respect
more respect to linus for defending his thoughts so clearly and Single Handed
18:39 :
"Good evening... so, systemd"
"Wow"
Made my day xDD
From this Q&A, I got that Linus really cares about the users and isn't one of those idiots that thinks having to deal with bugs and difficult installations builds "character"
This guy is far from the abrasive/abusive character he's been built up as.
He just takes his passion seriously and isn't willing to compromise on the things he finds important.
Some of his quotations may seem abusive and arrogant on paper, but when you hear his delivery and the way he speaks, he doesn't appear like that at all, but rather comes off as a down-to-earth person with a sense of humour.
He actually looks relatively meek and humble.
I've seen people with accomplishments and stations far lesser and lower than his, with an incomparably more inflated sense of ego, and a much more difficult and toxic personality.
Linus's insults are far milder than the average level of insults in other professions: I just get the feeling the software development and IT community isn't used to anything outside of completely dry, religiously civil and sterile discourse with anodyne humour.
Well said.
Linus doesn't believe in office politics. Though I understand since being an idiot when submitting code wastes his time.
I don’t have an issue with most of his behavior but some of it is unprofessional. Whether or not that is an issue is a different story, but there’s no question that cursing and personal attacks on people are unprofessional, no matter how mild.
He apologized in 2018.
he said someone should be retroactively aborted and he's surprised they couldn't find their mother's tit. that's blatantly being an asshole - whether or not you tolerate it is up to you
People need to realize that Linus is not a Systems Engineer nor a UNIX engineer. He writes kernel code. People who do this for a living want a machine configured for them.
he actually said that he is a systems programmer lol
This Q & A session highlights one of the things I absolutely *admire* about Linus: He is just so goddam practical! Whenever I get the temptation to ignore the actual real world, as it *actually* is, I just need to watch a talk from Linus to get my head straight again. It's not an antithesis to idealism, but when you marry the two you get pragmatism, which at the end of the day tends to produce the best results, methinks.
Tyler Zambori yup, that's the real world
He's not practical; he's dogmatic. His adherence to his expressed principles appears to provide more in terms of moral satisfaction than actual utility to the kernel. His fervor about the matter shows that he does not have data by which to demonstrate the utility of his position.
I like your funny words magic man
I've seen some of these questions as clips... didn't realise they were at a debian conference... makes the laughter make much more sense.
linus torvalds created the kernel, but deep in his heart, he fights for the Users. just like kevin flynn
And he's gotten 2415 times smarter since then.
But will he free us from the clutches of the evil Master Control Program (aka systemd)?
bruh
he destroyed debian on their on conference
Fedora
But the really important point he said it: he doesn't really care.
Fedora for God sake
@Karman: When? Is there a video of that? I'm eager to see more popcorn-worth talks like this.
@Agnish Roy mint
Best Coca-Cola advert.
Not so. I didn't notice until you pointed that out.
Literaly wants me drink Coca-Cola
=)
😀
Coke isn't open source formula
I love his zero fucks approach to insulting people.
Lol. As a German I'm feeling exhausted by people criticizing Linus for his behaviour. It's a v different culture than English speaking ones like UK, US. For us truth is respect. Phony politeness without meaning it- well, phony. Off putting. Creating distrust even at times. Critism helps grow. Blunt critism when talking to a person you have no other relation to except through tec is fine. It's not like Linus is walking down the street insulting random people. He gives feedback, unmasked and sometimes unasked. German, Polish, Russian, French , Italian. .... even Chinese- none would ever have a problem with this. Maybe what's the problem is a lack of understanding of different cultures and mindsets coming from different angles. And for that I can only encourage traveling and living in non English speaking countries for those with English as their first language. I'm certain that would massively help understand.
As an American who loves German Bluntness, I hope these elderberry-smelling, bureaucratic, blowhards choke on an egg.
What are you talking about? Germany is a totally pussified country by now, destroyed by political correctness. You can't even say what you think without going to jail. You even censored your own anthem not to offend foreigners. Maybe YOU are honest and care about truth, your country certainly doesn't.
@@lucioinnocenzo2328 OMG the only pussy here is you, crying about an obscure steal of free speech, spoken out freely by and probably without reflecting enough on yourself before. Go follow your alt-right bullshit but PLEASE don't give up upon growing up, because being empathic and nice IS NOT a weakness, it is a complete natural skill you should adopt while growing adult. There is no choice between being nice and being honest and I guess and hope that because of your rational thinking (that you are probably are so proud of) you will sooner or later get this point. :)
If they dont like it they are free to buy a windows pc and suffer the malware diseases lol
Gecko Lia 2o
Personally, I like Torvalds' invective. I find it imaginative and interesting, and then people move on.
Or they don't move on and get stuck on the words rather than the technical argument.
That's true, and pretty sad.
This man might not be the most polite out there. But the kind of articles people put up straight up smearing what kind of man he is is what made me realise, something is really fucked up about our drive for inclusiveness. It is being driven by demonizing people instead of talking to them with empathy, and these are the people who are trying to preach empathy
You hit it right on the spot. It really makes me wonder what would happen in a truly equalized and self sufficient world.
He has humility, humor, and honesty. Each of those is worth more than 'polite' by my standard. Being abrasive buffers you from insufferable overly-sensitive fools that care about such things more than actual productivity. P.C. should stand for personal computer, not "politically correct"-- that's a language of authoritative control.
"Respect is something that is earned, Respect is not something to just be given"...
"That" is why Linus Torvalds is a success in his field, and is why these people are standing in line to ask him a question, and not the other way around...
Good manners and respect are two different things. Linus confounds the two.
@@meathead919 Contrary to most other people he is HONEST. What matters are the facts, not the words. It's his right to have a controversial sense of humor. Look at what Linus did throughout his life, and what most of those politically correct people do! A world with more people like Linus and less political correctness (because kids take offense) would most likely be far better!
“Respect is earned, not given.” Love this explanation from Linus.
Pretty much, you are given respect when you earn it. You can tell how many people are soft and won’t handle failure well. I agree with Linus and it’s rewarding 2 fold. When people recognize your hard work and efforts, they will support you and motivate you to succeed. When you get the recognition from your hard work, you yourself will feel appreciated and will strive to do better. Just imagine if everyone got a raise, or if everyone was promoted, regardless if someone works or is lazy. This would defeat the purpose of healthy comptetition.
Glad to see Linus upset the soy mindsets in Portalnd during this conference.
I fell on this video while pulling my hair out trying to make something work on linux and it felt like every issue i have ever had with linux writ large. It is beautiful.
Torvalds really has good arguments, also I like arguments, arguments reflect your deductions and are hyphotesis about your conclusion.
10:50 is where Linus predicted the future. What a visionary, no doubt he leads the Linux kernel development.
it builds with the whole binaries 🙈😁 that is the part I'd like. It's like another distro running in the system.
I heard this and then realized this video is from 8 years ago. Holy cow.
yes, he actually does, how did you know :O ???
WHY DID I ENJOY THIS SO MUCH???
I've always had reservations about Linux based OS, mainly because of what I considered over-hyped security and eccentric interface controls. I was overly pleased to hear that Linus himself has had issues with specifically the security wing of development. The man really is amazing. He talks bluntly and has no fear of what he says. It's not about being politically correct, it about saying whats downright true. Even better is to see a few butthurt in the crowd, those that actually took offense to what he said.
For real. What a bunch of fucking babies.
I love this guy!!! Don't break user experience
As user experience remains broken because we have a rule against change....
@@Stierguy1 All the code must move at the same time to prevent bugs.
"Respect shouldn't be given, respect should be earned" ! L. Torvald is a real modern viking ! ^^
great comeback that was, indeed.
My standpoint too. Merit is what made our society great.
Common decency and proffessionalism are not the same thing as respect (I feel most people are arguing semantics in disguise here). While all those things are valuable, they are not neccessities, one might place the virtue of truth above them and who's to say this is wrong? It is a matter of taste. I think people just get sour when a person they've revered has disappointed them. You might agree that false altruism may be considered by some to be a worse trait than brutal honesty.
If people don't respect Debian, they don't know what Linux is and what it's capabilities for liberated computing are. Just saying.
@Yahmez Just so. Linus is just giving his practical use opinion and some tough love, though I'd argue that he does seem a little bit like a shark lost in the woods here, to be honest.
Want respect? Earn it. That's Linus' taste.
Linus is so true on ABI compatibility for user apps. The Win32 API is basically stable since 1995, that like roughly 20 years... Yeah, start that simple C program from 1995, thats ok, but how about that Loki games from the 2000s?
Yeah, I bought a copy of ACDSee back when I was running Win98. It still works on Win 10.
This guy is a legend
Hearing Linus complain about software packaging and ABI breakages now, in a world where Flatpak (and Snap, to an extent) has made shipping Linux software a breeze, is simply prophetic.
One of my favorite talks from Linus. Super light hearted and fun.
I like the way he handled sensitive pony tail guy about respect and crass language.
Tyler Zambori summary for anyone who does not want to read this guys wall of text: "Boo Hoo, why can't everyone be nice to each other"
Soon we will have a society where everyone will be required to talk to each in baby talk by law. When a deadline needs to be meet and a department is falling behind, the meeting will go something like this: "Can you little angles please try to get the product finished in time? Pwueesee? You're all perfect responsible geniuses. It's not your fault the projects falling behind. We hired a team of HR specialists to find who ever is causing the problem. You all can have a 3 day weekend so you don't feel responsible or guilty. Remember you're all angles and prodigies."
A few generations of that and society will catastrophically fail and humanity will plunge back into the dark ages. :)
Tyler Zambori Are you actually that emotionally unstable and sensetive that you'd sue a man over some harsh words? Grow the fuck up and grow a pair while you're at it, fucking hell people like you is what's wrong with this world, grown men with the emotional stability and "skin" of a kindergartner, I guess you are the result of "poor" overprotective parrenting popular in the 21 century where everyone is a special little snowflake, well welcome to life it fucking sucks but deal with it, furthermore if people do not like working with Linus that's their problem, as he pointed out, there's other open source projects out there, they can choose who to work with freely.
I think ***** summed it up quite well there, society as a whole is getting too sensetive to everything.
Gonna try and sue me now for being harsh to you on the internet :D
You mad yet? I sense rage and frustration. Tisk Tisk. Your anger is satisfying.
Now you're just making things up to defend your pathetic stance on the initial subject while mixing in contrived buzzwords, which all further manifests your weak-mindedness. Have you ever considered that suing an open-source software organization over some flame post in a VCS commit message is absurd? Have you looked into the human and environmental damage large micro processor manufactures get away with? If there's a reason to sue it's on something of that scale.
The problem with linux is that a lot of the end user software just isnt very good. Hes also completely right about the multiple distribution thing, as a developer why the hell do i have to target distributions with their own pet packaging requirements rather than just “linux”. End users dont care but they put the responsibility onto me and i then have to worry about quirks of a particular distribution rather than my application.
I've given up supporting linux for this very reason.
It's not Free for me to support Linux, it costs a lot more than other OSes in reality.
@@Prod-23 what about snap and flatpak?
@@testtestsson4927 Sure, those options are there but it's not just these technical challenges.
Testing is more complex, with many more permutations. Dealing with a customer problem is more complicated. Which distro are you running, what desktop env ... etc.
It's just a hugely difficult and complex platform to support as a small commercial developer.
Thanks so much for sharing the content, guys.
Linus is very honest with himself regardless of rudeness or whatever you name it :)
Linus rocks as always
He is awsome! Answering the Q about versions he explained everything and avoided mentioning any particular number until the end of last sentence.
This is so good
I resonate with his ideologies i am getting all warm and fuzzie.
I like to run a minimal desktop and have only what i need
That feeling when you love computers and you listen to tech people talk about stuff you have no idea about but for some reason you still spend an hour plus listening to them and pretend you understand. Damn! I feel so dumb right now!!!! I gotta study computer science! Hopefully these kinds of discussions will make more sense in about 4-5 years time.
omg I can totally relate.
Well?
its been 4 years man whats going now?
hey its been 7 years, whats up now?
Probably watched it 10 times. I just love listening to Linus Torvalds and how he talks about technology it's just so pragmatic
Linus is right in the packaging topic. While now there are working projects to fix the mullti distro deployment issue, it will take many years to get accepted and used as a main source of application instalation method.
The other problem I see is the per distro packaging itself and how packages are splitted in minor minor ones. When you look at some packages, they have a main package, a config file package, a plugins or optional package, development (or debug) package, etc, etc. That splitting make sometimes installing packages, specially for development a pain. They should learn from Android, that when a user want an app, it should install the whole app, and not only the binaries.
And until Linux distributions don't addressed that, imo there will have no desktop future.
Respect should be earned. I agree. But no one deserves _disrespect_ . At least he could have said something like "sorry, this is absolutely wrong, and does not meet our standards" in a review. In doing so, he won't be respectful towards that person. At the same time, he won't be disrespectful as well.
agreed, respect to the gentleman at 14:44 for making that stand.
Nice, watching this on a Chromebook right now!
Big respect Torvalds !!
FUCK POLITICAL CORRECTNESS ! ! !
GO LINUS ! ! !
"if it's a bug people rely on then it's a feature" is one of the best software dev takes ive seen in a long time. (interestingly most of the good ones I've found come from Linus)
wow the GPL2 vs 3 and the FSF convo was truly enlightening, and i agree the EFF is way better.
systemd question 18:40
Fucking thank you ! Exactly what I was looking for !
thanks
What's systemd? Probably I should Google
@@sinharakshit rtfm
Outstanding presentation!
Proves, beyond a doubt, that open source is the way to go!
If Ubuntu listened to him they could be on MANY more personal machines. I took three random laptops from big retail stores and Ubuntu had graphic driver incompatibilities with ALL three.
But, it looks like Ubuntu is retreating from being a desktop-oriented product anyway...
Patrick EH
Fedora is better...
@@hanro50 i use Arch, btw
Linus have some controversial opinions and can sometimes come off as rude. But I respect him and appreciate his honesty.
You Rock Linus! Thanks for making GNU/Linux oh so many years ago.
I love mr Linus. He is an awesome guy. Totally
Linus Torvalds, 2014: "The world is mostly good."
The world: "Hold my beer."
Well, it is good when compared to the 19th century or something like that. Although, of course, we coul'dve done waaay better. Especially in regards to big tech monopolizing politics and billionaires squeesing dollars from vulnerable people
He's so honest! LOL Amazing guy.
"Respected should be Earned" - Truth!!!
A few of these Debian people come across as kind of cultish... yeah, Linus is somewhat abrasive but parts of this video made me acutely uncomfortable, lol. I have dabbled in OSS for years, and have found some of the culture takes itself way too seriously. Linus is obviously very confident in his abilities (yeah, probably some arrogance there) but I feel like he is just being pragmatic in identifying what's good about Linux distros versus what's lacking. I don't find it surprising that one of the primary figures in the OSS world isn't completely enamored with the developmental results of a bunch of off-shoot branches.
The guy that gets up to call him childish and then later tries to joke around with him about some backwards compatibility thing..
such a toolbag. I wish our Lord and Savior Harambe would have taken him for a swim.
@Taiho667 typical
Eehh, what? @Taiho667
* Linus uses derogatory insults in disagreements.
* Guy criticizes Linus for it.
* Linus listen but ultimately disagrees.
* Guy comes back with an honest question, showing no hard feelings, aggression or passive-aggression towards Linus' disagreement.
* Linus answers the question sincerely without any hard feelings of the critique.
It's literally how it's supposed to be. How can you be offended when Linus literally invited "controversial" questions/comments, and both parties played through the engagement diplomatically?
Mutual respect is a thing, and it should be that way.
@@audiencebigg6302 As stated, respect must be earned not demanded.
i might have missed something, but especially when addressing a person such as Linus, i would probably say, thank you for taking my question after saying my name.
No, that is not useful. It is just a waste of time.
When people do that there is less time for questions.
Guys crushing hard on linus while chatting like a teenage girls, huge waste of time.
58:14 - I think I'm one of the 10 running subsurface on Arch...
Love the Subsurface project.
I use arch btw
Thanks Linus.
27:50 - I couldn't agree more. Each of us can/should work on themselves...
I also agree with linus take on respect in his example. His work speaks for itself and does not need faux respect. Is he over the top and rude sometimes. Yeah. He admits it and so what. His genuineness is such a breath of fresh air
EDIT: Thinking about this a bit more too. The chap who basically said words to the effect of 'hey your heading up something big here shouldn't you act like a bit less of a child'. Erm yes and no.... No because as far as commentating on the project he started and still coordinates he can say whatever the hell he wants. And yes in the sense that we all deserve to be treated on a personal level with respect. But also he's not talking to children. I really think he has little to apologise for. I mean at the end of the day he is running something that people input to voluntarily. If you don't like it, don't join in.
If he were a manager or ceo and he spoke like that about his employees he should get some counselling. But the relationship is different.
I gotta say that was a great intro!!!
Once again Linus being Linus
the guy in xen t-shirt is a douchebag
LOL @ a nerd calling another nerd an alpha male
If you use Linux, society automatically sees you as a beta male and a goddamn nerdy loser. All of you are nerds.
@@pvalencia ok.
@@pvalencia ok
@@pvalencia ok
for anyone curious, it happened at 27:48 (also 14:35 there is a similar discussion which I presume is the reason he was upset) edit: at 41:15 he reappears again but I think he came back this time with question he was originally intending to make before he got pissed off, it has nothing to do with the previous shit.
Well considering that the steam runtime is running a ancient version of gtk and that some distributions can easily run steam games natively even though they're technically unsupportive means Linus is right
Valve single handedly standardized the entire linux desktop range as they've essentially released the first massively successful cross-platform universal package manager.
If valve could ever get a second wave of steam machines off the ground it could be epic
Good news! (Atleast for now)
Note: i know this comment is really old just wanted to say
@@jack8407 what up?
@@hanro50 Steam Deck is up.
And lo and behold, Steam Deck is here and crushing the PC gaming market. With tons of games now playable on Linux.
All thanks to Valve effort of believing in Linux and standardized things around it so regular end users don't have to deal with tinkering stuff.
Linus's quote on Valve saving Linux desktop was spot on. How did he know that back in 2014?
Linus is the man!!!
ah 2014, 2015 the golden era! Now, they should do a Re-Match 2-hour special, Q & A Post-ubunutu, ArchLinux era Q&A
thanks for sharing boss!
well he certainly gained my respect, for what its worth.
debian used to make modern day arch and gentoo look like a walk in the park to install
love the systemd part , lol
on one hand I think it is ideal to approach technical disagreement with respect.
on another, I think it is important to have thick skin, respectfully stand up, and just be professional and not work with the person when the opportunity presents itself.
but yeah, Linus is an asshole lol
17:29 The punchline after the response is priceless.
Ah i was watching the Q&A series and what i found here Adnan !
I’m reminded of what my mentor, a CEO in a huge financial firm, said to me during our last session. Would you rather be liked, or respected?
The way I see it is you treat people with fairness and kindness but respect is something greater. You wouldn't hand the kid that mows your lawn a 10 dollar tip just cause he would have to do a fantastic job to earn those 10 extra bucks.
great talk
I tried Debian recently. Live cd didn’t boot, then I installed it using text installer and installed Demian didn’t boot either... So I installed Mint and it works great!
Still relevant today, Linus _is_ a visioner even if he refuses to approve so
My favorite introvert!
if anyone gets "respect" then respect means nothing... so respect needs to be EARNED
Linus: the worst thing is when people don't follow the guidelines.
His first response to the following person: Sorry, I didn't read the guidelines.
That's not software developer guidelines, but okay.
You know, to invite Linus as a guest speaker, and then continually attack him with belligerent questions shows a COMPLETE LACK OF RESPECT for the DebConf community. He is a guest at your event, learn some manners.
+typedeaf Yeah, and it's strange that anyone who is a fan of Linux could not have any respect for the guy who made it.
+ Amelia Hartman el ni hizo linux,, solo creo el kernel
alexis uceda jara I posted my comment in English, meaning I speak English. I recognize the word "kernel" so I'm assuming it's something about the how he made the Linux kernel, but remember that Linux is defined by its kernel. A "Linux operating system" is simply an operating system that is built on the Linux kernel.
seria mejor llamarlo GNU/LINUX para darle crédito a Richard Stallman
alexis uceda jara No. Android is Linux and runs no GNU software. GNU is just something that comes with a lot of Linux distros but it isn't inherently part of Linux. Google Translator's thing is pretty terrible, so if I misinterpret anything you say, that's why.
So kids. Have a doubt.
Doubt your things.
Doubt your teacher.
Doubt your professors.
There is no such an absolute truth.
You have to doubt everything.
Linus you beautiful bastard!
23:00 - We think thr same about the Settings UX in Linux distributions. 😁🤙🏼
I half agree Linus' point : I don't think respect should just be given, it has to also be deserved at the same time.
Very interesting vid.
watching this video on windows will curse your family for 7 generations
LOL
"They did a boring crap, like... they did QnA"
- Linus
Still entertaining in 2021
I've never used Linux before. But after watching Revolution OS and rid. I'll give it a try.
any results?
I personally think respect should be the default until someone loses it. Then by all means, disrespect them harshly. Be nice to strangers until they give you a reason to be an asshole.
Or do what you want. I don't care that much. If someone outright disrespects me then that's just a helpful indicator that I shouldn't affiliate with them. So... there's always another way to deal with it. I like Linus, even if he can be rude. The man's passionate and I find that more important than how he "comes across". Thanks for Linux.
This is what EVERY ENGINEER should know about how software "sausage is made"!
hahaahah linus my hero. as a kid everybody wanted to be superman... astronaut... jet fighter pilot....
linus was my hero, still is.
the way he speaks and thinks will go down in history.
like if you watch this dude's speeches in 4018
fsck debian, too difficult to install.... maybe it was microcare....
Love him
He kind of reminds me of Steve Carell
exactly