If the bars continue to dry after a time, causing them to go sharp, then does it make sense to plan on doing two rounds of tuning?...initial tuning at A.430-436, and then a year or two later (or until a few months after they seemed to have stabilized), do a second round of tuning to bring them up to A.440? Have you ever taken a keyboard that was ultra-sharp and re-tuned each bar up to the next pitch and then reconstructed a new bottom bar? When constructing a keyboard from scratch, have you ever made a few extra bars to be stored amidst the frame to make use of in the event you needed to make a new bar (equally dried out as the others)? What's your favorite building material? Any materials you've regretted using? Of all the viable/available materials, which do you suppose is the lightest in weight? Might your choice of material be different if you were going to make massive bass marimba bars? How about skipping the whole fuss and cutting bars from kelon, if we didn’t care about achieving a wood tone? Do kelon bars hold their pitch? What _other_ materials are good for pounding on that produce nice and/or interesting tones? Thanks, Byron 🙂 Sam
I'm a bit confused by this talk. I believe xylophone bars are tuned to the fundamental and the third harmonic, whereas marimbas are tuned to the fundamental , the fourth and the tenth harmonic. This difference is largely responsible for the distinct sounds of the two instruments. So the bar you are demonstrating on has tuning more appropriate for a marimba, where the fourth harmonic is two octaves above the fundamental. It also looks a lot like a marimba bar with its deeply carved back surface.
Hi Byron, Might you know of an ultra-advanced method for node-finding, like a fancy camera that detects/shows vibration-imagining? Might you know how the big boys do it? I can’t imagine the Marimba One and Yamaha guys doing the salt trick for all their thousands of bars. 🙂
For tuning the higher overtone, would there be a difference between taking off material at the inner “saddle” spot (as you say) and taking off material at the outer-end corners of the bar?
I would think that higher bars are tuned sharp on purpose just like the tuning deviation curves used on pianos. Do the Marimba makers typically tune with deviation since marimbas cover such a wide range of notes? Ive always wondered this. If they do, I can imagine that lowering the pitch of all those keys would actually ruin the instrument.
Bars over time slipping out of tune: Both factors combined--wood drying out and abuse--which direction in pitch do bars tend to go? What percentage of bars go flat? What percentage of bars go sharp? Consistent and predictable? Thanks : )
I have aluminum bars with pitting. I want to sand down to remove the pitting which will probably make the bar out of tune. Can I shorten the bar or remove material to bring it back to life???
Hello, Byron. Thanks for posting this video. I DO have a question: I need to tune a desk xylophone (one inch wide bars). They are ALL about 15 cents flat. Do you have any hints, clues and insight as to how to get them up in pitch? And what to watch out for as I do this? I have a belt sander that can be mounted in a bench vice and several tuners.
Not sure if you got your reply about bringing the pitch up if a bar is flat, but you'll need to remove material at the ends of the bars. this can be done by sanding the very ends, and thus making the bars a bit shorter, or by sanding the bottom of the bar at the very end, thereby making the very ends a bit thinner. Note that more material will need to be removed from the ends to bring the pitch up than from the middle to take it down.
+Nick Chura I successfully tuned that xylo by mounting my belt sander in a bench vice and sanding the bottoms of the ends of the bars (at a 45 degree angle). It worked out fine. The concerts were this past July and August. A marimba would be a harder project, but this turned out great. Thanks for getting back to me!
Excellent video, Byron -- and just what I needed. I do have one other question I'm hoping you might be able to answer: I have a Deagan model 30R marimba from about 1941, with rosewood tone-bars. It hasn't always been treated well, and all of the tone-bars are faded, many have water stains, and the wood's grain is open. I'm reasonably skilled, and I have a full workshop. If it were not a musical instrument, I would (carefully) sand down the surfaces to expose fresh wood, and saturate it with whatever oil / wax / sealant is appropriate, but I doubt that would be a good idea here! Can you recommend how I might refurbish the tone-bars? -or do you know of somewhere else I might ask? Thanks in advance!
After tuning, does the bar need any sort of treatment? I am thinking about trying to tune some of my classroom Orff instruments and I just want to ensure that I do it properly.
Question is old but, for anyone wondering, there are good apps on smartphones these days that will do the job as well as an expensive stroboscopic tuner. The TunerTime app on Android worked great for me when tuning metalophone bars.
Can I get someone out to tune in my zylaphones like you can get a piano tuner out .I live in carnforth Lancs is the anywhere near that will be able to tune it for me please and how much would it cost me .?
I just brought home my school's unused, really crappy marimba. This video showed how to tune bars that are sharp, by taking wood off the center of the bars. What do you do when the bars are flat? Most of my bars are 20-80 cents flat because the board is 30 years old and has been exposed to a TON of rain, snow, sun, and extreme temperatures (agh!!!!). Also, do you need a sander or can you carve out wood using a knife?
To raise the pitch you can remove material from the ends of the keys (try underneath, beyond the nodal points). What you are doing is removing mass from the key without increasing its elasticity, which allows it to cycle faster. Knife or chisel will work. However, even 20 cents worth is a fair bit of material, and will affect the nodal points of the bar; something to bear in mind.
Cultural artifact, yes. Arbitrary, no. The physics of tuning is the same throughout the universe. The harmonic series in Mozambique is the same as the harmonic series in Manhattan is the same as the harmonic series on Mars.
Highclass Marimbas comes in tuning 440 ,442,444,446 ,448 and the highpitched Bars Are slithly sharper in tuning also Reason: Not evry Orchestra plays 440 and Marimba Sounds better in sharp tuning ... Fact :you ruined the instrument😎
Wow Byron, great video. Just bought an all wood marimba which is out of tune and look forward to tuning it using your expert tutelage
Thank you very much I really will like to learn how to do it
If the bars continue to dry after a time, causing them to go sharp, then does it make sense to plan on doing two rounds of tuning?...initial tuning at A.430-436, and then a year or two later (or until a few months after they seemed to have stabilized), do a second round of tuning to bring them up to A.440? Have you ever taken a keyboard that was ultra-sharp and re-tuned each bar up to the next pitch and then reconstructed a new bottom bar? When constructing a keyboard from scratch, have you ever made a few extra bars to be stored amidst the frame to make use of in the event you needed to make a new bar (equally dried out as the others)?
What's your favorite building material? Any materials you've regretted using? Of all the viable/available materials, which do you suppose is the lightest in weight? Might your choice of material be different if you were going to make massive bass marimba bars?
How about skipping the whole fuss and cutting bars from kelon, if we didn’t care about achieving a wood tone? Do kelon bars hold their pitch? What _other_ materials are good for pounding on that produce nice and/or interesting tones?
Thanks, Byron 🙂
Sam
I'm a bit confused by this talk. I believe xylophone bars are tuned to the fundamental and the third harmonic, whereas marimbas are tuned to the fundamental , the fourth and the tenth harmonic. This difference is largely responsible for the distinct sounds of the two instruments. So the bar you are demonstrating on has tuning more appropriate for a marimba, where the fourth harmonic is two octaves above the fundamental. It also looks a lot like a marimba bar with its deeply carved back surface.
Yes, the bar in the video seems to be one from an Orff xylophone by Bergerault, and those instruments are actually small marimbas.
What a great resource. Thank you!
he says a lot of information, I feel is not enough, great video, thanks
Hi my Friend thank you very much for the nice video, can you tell me what is the digital version of that tuner please.
Hi Byron,
Might you know of an ultra-advanced method for node-finding, like a fancy camera that detects/shows vibration-imagining? Might you know how the big boys do it? I can’t imagine the Marimba One and Yamaha guys doing the salt trick for all their thousands of bars. 🙂
For tuning the higher overtone, would there be a difference between taking off material at the inner “saddle” spot (as you say) and taking off material at the outer-end corners of the bar?
I would think that higher bars are tuned sharp on purpose just like the tuning deviation curves used on pianos. Do the Marimba makers typically tune with deviation since marimbas cover such a wide range of notes? Ive always wondered this. If they do, I can imagine that lowering the pitch of all those keys would actually ruin the instrument.
Yes they are supposed to be stretch tuned like a piano.
Might there be a way to “seal” a bar in an attempt to forever stabilize its moisture-content?
Bars over time slipping out of tune:
Both factors combined--wood drying out and abuse--which direction in pitch do bars tend to go? What percentage of bars go flat? What percentage of bars go sharp? Consistent and predictable?
Thanks : )
I have aluminum bars with pitting. I want to sand down to remove the pitting which will probably make the bar out of tune. Can I shorten the bar or remove material to bring it back to life???
Hello, Byron. Thanks for posting this video. I DO have a question: I need to tune a desk xylophone (one inch wide bars). They are ALL about 15 cents flat. Do you have any hints, clues and insight as to how to get them up in pitch? And what to watch out for as I do this? I have a belt sander that can be mounted in a bench vice and several tuners.
Not sure if you got your reply about bringing the pitch up if a bar is flat, but you'll need to remove material at the ends of the bars. this can be done by sanding the very ends, and thus making the bars a bit shorter, or by sanding the bottom of the bar at the very end, thereby making the very ends a bit thinner. Note that more material will need to be removed from the ends to bring the pitch up than from the middle to take it down.
+Nick Chura I successfully tuned that xylo by mounting my belt sander in a bench vice and sanding the bottoms of the ends of the bars (at a 45 degree angle). It worked out fine. The concerts were this past July and August. A marimba would be a harder project, but this turned out great. Thanks for getting back to me!
Just built my first marimba. Having trouble with the lowest bars. They're ringing some crazy overtones that make them sound off
Excellent video, Byron -- and just what I needed.
I do have one other question I'm hoping you might be able to answer: I have a Deagan model 30R marimba from about 1941, with rosewood tone-bars. It hasn't always been treated well, and all of the tone-bars are faded, many have water stains, and the wood's grain is open. I'm reasonably skilled, and I have a full workshop. If it were not a musical instrument, I would (carefully) sand down the surfaces to expose fresh wood, and saturate it with whatever oil / wax / sealant is appropriate, but I doubt that would be a good idea here!
Can you recommend how I might refurbish the tone-bars? -or do you know of somewhere else I might ask?
Thanks in advance!
I know absolutely nothing, but sanding down bars will definetely change pitch. I would send them to a professional?
It's good to see how to tune the second partial. Could you show how to tune the third partial? or could I possibly email you about that?
The best way to deal with the third partial is just fuck it!
After tuning, does the bar need any sort of treatment? I am thinking about trying to tune some of my classroom Orff instruments and I just want to ensure that I do it properly.
Tuning my wife’s marimbas right now.
Hi Byron....can you recommend a good tuner for working with marimba tuning as well as other instruments? Strobe seemed the way to go?
Question is old but, for anyone wondering, there are good apps on smartphones these days that will do the job as well as an expensive stroboscopic tuner. The TunerTime app on Android worked great for me when tuning metalophone bars.
@@Shadocko Wooden Bars are short in Sound ,while metalbars rings out...this is a Problem with tuning...same is the Overtones
Can I get someone out to tune in my zylaphones like you can get a piano tuner out .I live in carnforth Lancs is the anywhere near that will be able to tune it for me please and how much would it cost me .?
I just brought home my school's unused, really crappy marimba. This video showed how to tune bars that are sharp, by taking wood off the center of the bars. What do you do when the bars are flat? Most of my bars are 20-80 cents flat because the board is 30 years old and has been exposed to a TON of rain, snow, sun, and extreme temperatures (agh!!!!). Also, do you need a sander or can you carve out wood using a knife?
To raise the pitch you can remove material from the ends of the keys (try underneath, beyond the nodal points). What you are doing is removing mass from the key without increasing its elasticity, which allows it to cycle faster. Knife or chisel will work. However, even 20 cents worth is a fair bit of material, and will affect the nodal points of the bar; something to bear in mind.
Don't forget Tuning is arbitrary and a Cultural Artifact.
carlosmante your mom is a cultural artifact
@@cryangallegos wow dude so mature
Cultural artifact, yes. Arbitrary, no. The physics of tuning is the same throughout the universe. The harmonic series in Mozambique is the same as the harmonic series in Manhattan is the same as the harmonic series on Mars.
"arbitrary and a cultural artifact"
bahaha
Highclass Marimbas comes in tuning 440 ,442,444,446 ,448 and the highpitched Bars
Are slithly sharper in tuning also
Reason: Not evry Orchestra plays 440 and Marimba Sounds better in sharp tuning ...
Fact :you ruined the instrument😎