Prevent THOUSANDS in damages with these smart water monitors.
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2021
- I tested all the major brands and best selling smart water monitors. Not all technologies are made equally, and the FLO by Moen stuck out as being the best by far. Smart Water Monitor Buyers Guide (Moen FLO, Flume, Streamlabs, Phyn)
Monitors Tested (Rankings):
Flo By Moen: amzn.to/3jRrok2
Flume 2 Water Meter: amzn.to/3A88TgE
Phyn Smart Water Assistant: amzn.to/2WYtvdf
Streamlabs Monitor: amzn.to/2Yta8sX
Streamlabs Control: www.streamlabswater.com/control
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Suggestion for all those having professional inst all-get your plumber to also install and manual ball valve in parallel so if the device shuts down inappropriately,breaks etc, you can by pass-also be sure to have them use couplings on BOTH sides of the valve so YOU can easily replace when the tiem comes without another plumbers fee-plumber will balk but make him do it!
Flo comes with a bypass insert
I've got the Moen Flo as well as their smart leak detectors positioned around the house. It has already paid for itself in detecting some issues we otherwise would not have found for quite some time.
Steam labs control (the shut-off) & Monitor is owned by my insurance company Chubb it's great
Nice video, confirmed my decision to install the Moen Flo at both my homes. They are both installed and working great!
Great video as always! Just a note from someone who is in the industrial automation trade on the ultrasonic flow meters, you should get better accuracy is you install the meter at an angle in relation to the pipe, if you install it on top of the pipe small bubbles in the line an affect the readings. Also, the rule of thumb with flow meters is to install the meter in a straight section of pipe that is 10x the diameter of the pipe after and 5x the diameter before any bends, fittings, valves and couplings to ensure laminar flow. That said, I’m not sure if it will make a major difference as 1.5% is already a small error.
Looking forward to more content from you and hopefully getting great colabs in getting Linus fully up to speed with Home Automation in his new house!
I'm glad to see this as the top comment - Was just coming to the comments to mention very much the same things. For the Flo and Streamlabs, the installs were about "worst case scenario" of pipe diameter changes with propress fittings which create huge orifice/expansion turbulence effects as well as turns and an ultrasonic near a "choppy" flow restriction of an impeller.
@@axisofoil this man talks my language!
Damn mine is right after a bend
Steam labs control (the shut-off) & Monitor is owned by my insurance company Chubb it's great
Man you are so thorough! Amazing job as always. So awesome you get to do this full time now. There may be a Moen in my future 😁
I was worried about what you would say about the Moen Flo as I purchased one about two months ago. Waiting for my plumber to come and hook up our new well.
Whew, I lucked out with your recommendation!
Thanks for the great detailed videos!
These were great reviews.
One thing that struck me as I'm trying to solve this problem myself: The devices look, largely, not quite ready for prime time / plasticy.
The Moen Flo, for example. There are reports that the impeller will fail / magnets will be covered in grime over time. This is for a $900 device. It looks like you'd get a few years out of it until you're dealing with it again, unlike a normal shut-off ball valve.
The Flume 2 clips onto your meter and, by the tests in the video, gives really accurate results. No pressure test. You can see if water is leaking to a certain point.
This led me to: Why not just get the Flume 2, to measure flow, and a motorized shut-off ball valve? I can then control that using an outlet or IoT device connected to Home Assistant. At that point if any of my leak sensors (under each toilet/faucet/refrigerator/dish washer) detects water OR the Flume 2 detects a leak for a period of time, I can then automatically activate the shut-off valve (which is $70 vs $900 - granted, I have other parts at play here ... Still with just the Flume + this shut-off valve you're around $200 AND I think a normal, motorized shutoff valve is far better built (metal) than the plastic parts in the Flo).
To me the win here is: I travel a good bit. I also sleep. If I get a water leak in the middle of the night or when I'm out of town I want it to be detected and the water to shut-off. You could even take this one step further by having a drain valve at the lower part of your house and a one-way valve near the upper portion of your home so that you could completely, and safely, drain the system while your not home (after turning the main valve off) to protect against further damage OR if you're not home and there's a freeze alert... and you're still well under $900.
I am going to do the ball valve shut off robot from Yolink. I already have flow monitor and leak detect from Water meter at road. Water company used to charge small fee but now is upgrading all homes in my area with it. Not sure if I can connect it to the ball valve but I have always seen the text notifications rapidly and addressed leaks that indoor sensors would not catch. Otherwise I would invest in a flow sensor at my input by water softener I could screw on myself. Thanks for this video and info!
Thank you for taking the time to make this GREAT content, truly this video was AWESOME.. the only bummer is you were missing some important models in the comparisons. It would be great to see you review the Moen vs. the Phyn Plus (v1) vs. the new Phyn Plus (v2).
Phyn plus v2 wasn't out at the time. However, my biggest problem with the Phyn was the app which is the same between all their models.
Very helpful and informative. His in-depth analysis was spot on!
Great video! And, good timing as I had come across the Moen FLO a couple of weeks ago and was considering it.
This video is eerily timely for me. I just experienced a potentially catastrophic event when one of my toilet fill valves decided to arbitrarily snap off. Had I not been home at the time it could have cost me thousands in repair costs. Even the 20 minutes or so it took for me to discover the problem resulted in some drywall and carpet damage. I'll definitely be looking into the Moen Flo and Streamlabs Control.
Thanks so much for yet another great video!
It's more common than you think. Water damage is second only to wind for insurance claims.
Glad you found Phyn Plus! ;-) Doing research right now and saying hi! You had some good luck there catching that leak!
Steam labs control (the shut-off) & Monitor is owned by my insurance company Chubb it's great
Excellent and timely review! I love the way you talk clearly about the different products and explain their differences! The Moen seems very promising, now if they can only reduce the cost, I’d gladly go that route!
The link in the description is currently $397, $100 off MSRP ain't too bad.
Thank you so much for posting this! We had a leak develop recently while we were on vacation and ended up with a $500 water bill, so naturally I became very interested in these. I've struggled to find much information about them until this video. I was very skeptical about the non-plumbed options, but found the info here very interesting. I had been leaning towards the Moen Flo, and was happy to find that you came to the same conclusion after conducting thorough testing. Thanks again!
Glad it helped, these things really pay for themselves after preventing just a single incident.
Great video as usual. I was on the fence about the Moen Flow and seeing all the research and testing you put into this I am feeling better pulling the trigger and getting this project going. 2 years ago I was out of my house for a year due to a water pipe break while I was out of town. Don't want to relive that again!
It’s definitely a great product. I’ve got people at my house pressure washing right now and not only did the flo alert me, but I also got an automated phone call. Cool stuff.
Love the videos man. You test things like I would
Thank you for posting all these VERY informative videos. I know it's a lot of work, I have done it myself. (I have a BFA in Computer Art. ) I appreciate you and all your hard work! Keep them coming.
Fantastic delivery. Thorough and easily understood
Really well done video, comprehensive comparison of the important topic
Good to see your accuracy measurements. It seems obvious that the plumbed-in solutions are way more accurate.
Amazing as always, some o the best reviews on youtube! I wish you had included the Grohe Sense Guard Smart Water Controller
Great video. I'd love to see an update comparing the Moen FLO to the newer Phyn Plus.
As always, you have the most concise, to-the-point, clear instructional videos. Thanks for all the efforts in making this video. A couple years ago a friend had a massive water leak at his house and that incentivized me to implement a water monitor at my house and at a rental. I ended up buying a Sonoff RF, 433 MHz RF water sensors, and a WiFi solenoid valve. All integrated in Home Assistant for monitoring, notifications, and automated shut-off. I have been extremely happy with my system, it has detected small leaks, and automatically shut-off the valve after notifying me. Obviously, this video was focused on systems that you can buy out of the shelf.
What wifi valve did you use ?
Excellent summary! Thank you.
Excellent break down as always! My folks are looking for one of these as this video was very helpful!
The phyn would be great for renters
Thanks for the metric system :)
Another great video, Rob! Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the different options!
I've been looking at the Moen Flo lately, and I think you've just cemented my decision get it at some point. We're still in the last month of building the new house, and have a ton of other projects that are further ahead in line. I'll be sure to use your affiliate link when we pull the trigger though 👍
I have had a Moen Flo for the last couple months and I am pretty impressed with it. Twice now I left my hose bibs on and they slightly leak, and on both times I was alerted in the morning the the Flo sensed a leak when it did it's nightly test.
I hear a lot about failing devices from this brand. How is yours? Which model?
Ahh such a bummer these devices are so heavily cloud integrated it would be so cool if the meters themselves had MQTT or Modbus or some other common standard you can connect a local server up to.
Some meters broadcast data over RF which is then read by the water company (so they don't have to manually read everyone's meters), but unfortunately most newer meters encrypt the data :(
Great video, solid assessments of the relevant features. Hopeful of seeing addition of FloLogic soon!
I have the Phyn Plus. Works really well and has notified me on occasion of unusual water running.
Hey Rob, fan of the channel for a long time! I have the flume and loved it. Like you I was one of the early buyers of flume and I dont pay for subscription and its been good to me. I recently moved to home assistant and using node red (thanks to you again!) -- still learning but was wondering if you are planning to make a video for node red using flume + Dome (or any shutoff valve) + zigbee/zwave water sensors.
It would be cool if its possible to setup an automation when a leak is detected from one of the sensors, then it checks with Flume if it is really a real leak, then turn it off via shut off valve. Can add if AWAY mode, main water will be shut off right away -- if people are Home -- give a 10-minute grace period before the valve shuts off so they people can check first if it is really a leak.
More power to the channel and Thanks!
I live on a farm, and have two water sources (both well and spring). Of course that means there are huge pressure swings, which eliminates most flow monitors as a viable option. We also have somewhat unreliable internet access out here, so I have to have something that doesn’t depend on some corporate API for its basic functions. What I really want is something that I could easily connect to via serial or IP. I’d need a pressure gauge of some kind that reports the pipe pressure (would have to report down to…. IDK… 4 times per second?), and then a relay/contactor/breaker that I can have software order to open, to stop the pump from running (just closing a valve isn’t adequate). Perhaps also monitor the pressure output switch to the pump, so that I can tell whether or not the pump is getting power, and if it continuously has power for more than say 30 seconds, open the relay and raise an alarm. I’ve been pondering how to accomplish this for *years*, but I haven’t found anything off-the-shelf that does this, and I’m not confident in my ability to write software that will be able to distinguish regular utilization from a runaway event. :’(
Thanks for this!!
The water meter thing and the phyn would also only work if you have city water. No meter with a well, and huge pressure swings.
For a well, I'm thinking about putting the well pump through something with CTs to monitor energy usage, and then figuring a conversion for motor on duration to gallons of water.
Thank you for the detailed yet succinct video! I was looking for reviews on the Flume 2 which brought me here. I'm getting one based on it's high usage accuracy as shown in your demonstration.
Also, the subscription cost has been removed as of 4/12/22 BUT the device is now $199.
Flume is not a product I would recommend to anyone. They don't tell you that the more flow it measures, the faster those batteries die. Nightmare
This is a very good video! As an engineer, I love to see the very specific measures of each system.
Do you have any plans on updating this video to include the Phyn Plus valve? I am interested to see how it compares to the Moen Flo valve.
Phyn has major quality issues. Stay away: it is plumbed, so when it fails (and it will fail) you will have to hire a plumber to remove or replace it.
Fantastic video. Thank you.
A home builder I'm working with has the Moen Flo included for their homes. I'm glad its a good product and not a gimmick.
Another great review Thanks
Thanks Rob.
So a 3rd video is in order showing how you can best integrate these and the leak battery leak detectors using HA, HE, or ST. Thanks for the review on these. I think a Moen Flow might be my next smart home purchase.
Flume just got rid of their yearly subscription, making it the best value at this point 👌
I noticed that too, making it the unit I’ll be purchasing in the morning. I’ve had a couple irrigation mishaps that resulted in yard flooding and water overflowing into my neighbors yard, wasting hundreds of gallons of water in each instance. I’ve been shopping and comparing monitors like these, and with the Flume 2’d recent change in what it includes w/o a subscription, I’ve decided it’s the one to go with.
Remember flume is a meter only. No auto shut off.
Also you need to have an mechanical water meter in order for it to work so if you have a well water system, you most likely don't have an existing water meter.
Always check out your videos, question for you on this topic. We returned from a long weekend a few years ago to a totally destroyed home. Over $200,000 insurance claim due to water damage. Our biggest issue here is how hard the water is. all the taps/shut offs etc end up with build up on them. Any idea how they stand up to this? thanks and I'll keep watching!
These are nice so you can keep an eye on the interior pipes and usage. This will not solve a outdoor pipe that T's off for your outdoor drip system though like a valve that's stuck open.
Rob I have had the FLUME 2 for over a year now and it's great- when you said it would not show you a micro leak (toilet running or faucet dripping) you are mistaken- that was the 1st thing it caught when I got mine- I am guessing your device needs to be calibrated. I did have issues at first with incorrect reporting but I worked with support and once we re calibrated it has been flawless. I do agree that the now annual fee (which I do not need to pay for because I was grandfathered in) is unfortunate.
It's possible it needed more time to calibrate. I had the faucet on "drip" overnight (about 8 hours) and none of the monitors said anything about it. I had to do the specific "drip tests" in the apps to get it to register.
I do agree it would probably catch a running toilet though.
Great review! I’m thinking about getting the Flo Logic system. Any thoughts about that one? Thanks!
Any insights into the Bluebot Universal Smart Home Water Meter?
I was able to get the flume 2 for $25 including extra battery through rebate program by my water company. It didn't say anything about a subscription but I get real time monitoring and all the features you indicated, will have to see if there's actually a subscription. UPDATE: It says on the site that I have lifetime subscription to insight and that this used to be a paid subscription but isn't at this time. I'm also able to get a discount on my home owner's insurance. It doesn't turn off the water for you if there's a leak, however.
Have you considered making a comparison from smart monitor/shut off system like these to a probe based system like the Water Cop system, they both have there advantages, if from a home owner prospective which would you invest in? Great video, thank you!
I love your very thorough reviews and learn a ton from them. However you did fail to mention the Phyn Plus model which does have a whole home water shutoff and several great features. I have had one installed in my home for 18 months and love it. I'd be interested to see how it stacks up against the other front runners like the Moen.
My main gripes with the phyn were the lackluster app and lack of integrations with smart home platforms. I have no doubt that the phyn plus would perform well, but it's more expensive than the Flo and has a significantly worse app.
I’m still interested in the comparison of the two? Although phyns app is lacking.
No subscription......Moen flo it is! Thanks for the information. Great video.
Great review.
Hi. I living in Belgium and according to my search, Moen Flo is not available where I leave. I'm searching for a smart water monitoring system, with leak detection and automatic shut off valve. Any idea?
(Great video btw. Only disappointed that it's not applicable to me, even if very valuable for teaching me the elements to look at)
Are there any water usage detectors that can be installed on the water supply to an appliance? I would like to monitor the water usage on my washing machine and dishwasher seperatly.
Thank you the awesome video. Are you going to add GROHE SENSE GUARD to your review list? I would like to find out more about the GROHE SENSE GUARD, unfortunately Grohe's website doesn't have much tech spec on their official website
Anything similar for measuring heating oil usage? Kerosene/diesel
For the Flume 2 the chart of the pros/cons it says $49/month when I think it should say $49/year
::Facepalm::
Either way, its still a big red flag sadly. Which sucks cause it LOOKS like a decent kit.
Ok good, I was SHOCKED by that price, LOL. although I agree, even $49/year is still a deal breaker.
Thanks for the great information. Are you aware of a manufacturer that makes a unit for a 3 inch water pipe?
Why didn’t you test the full in-line Phyn ??
Great video! I'm currently going through the process of replacing all the supply lines to my house. Do you think much has changed in the smart water monitor world since making this video?
Hi, what can I use to know when a specific shower is being used ?
I made my own with flow sensors with built in thermistors. Then I use esphome to populate the data into HA.
Great video. Did you ever retest the Moen Flo for a large leak detection after it had learned your house?
Yep, works great. It gives you an alert on your phone and an automated phone call letting you know there is a problem and giving you 60 seconds to override before it automatically shuts off the water.
Great review as always. *Very* well done. When you complete these reviews do you contact the manufacturers to give them an opportunity to chime in? I'm always curious what someone like Streamlabs would say about a whopping 15% variation, for example, on performing the core single purpose of the tool. Or Phyn on the 70% (!?!?!) deviation.
Sometimes. Though I almost never reach out to my contact. I occasionally call customer support or chat via the website without giving my name or email.
can you use moen flow and PHyn together to get the best of both?
This is a great video
I have used Sharkbite fittings and I generally trust them, but on the main water supply? I dunno....
I am looking for wifi control device : timer on the water, also every time the water is running get an alert, water leak detention, and shut off and on manually and automatically, please can you recommend one
How many entities did the Moen Flo pull into HASS? There’s a few things automations I’d like to do when water consumption on specific faucets reach certain amounts of water delivery.
Any updates to include the H2Wise Plus?
Hi Vince,Thanks for the video on the water monitors. I am wondering if you have tested the newer Phyn Plus second gen device that also shuts off the water - similar to the Moen Flo?
Moen had the troubled impeller so I am wondering if the new Phyn might be a better option.
Thanks. Jeff
Hi Jeff, I haven't tested the Phyn Plus. Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think my name is Vince? I only ask because people call me Vince all the time, and I'm not sure which other RUclipsr I'm being mistaken for. (My name is Rob).
Apologies for the name mixup! I am nearly positive that I saw it in this video - but maybe not. But it might be buried in there somewhere, or perhaps when I was reading the other comments here I saw it and ran with it. Wrongly. Back on the monitor decision, I can't decide which unit is the better way to go. The impeller problem by Moen was an embarrassment and while they might have solved it I wonder if a less moving parts route is the way to go. Thanks for the great videos and I am now subscribed.
@@soldemaroceanfront8440 I will say that my biggest issue with the Phyn was the app, which is the same for the Phyn Plus. Moen Flo app is just a much better experience. My Flo is still going strong. My Flume died because my water shutoff box flooded in a Florida storm.
Hi Rob, The application for this Moen flo device that we're considering is for a very large beach area duplex that is quite a distance away from where we live and it functions as a short-term rental. In the peak summer season it can have upwards of 15 people per unit and the water usage will be quite variable depending on occupancy levels and time of year. Do you think that eventually the Moen device can learn the wide variances? I don't want a bunch of false shut-offs when the duplex units are full and a lot of water is being used. Thanks again for your insights.
I wish you tested the regular phyn meter. They have 2 models that both go on the water main instead of smaller modules that go on a single fixture.
Also, the biggest complaint about the Flo is that the impeller corrodes and fails extremely fast (within 6mo - 2 years, typically). I had a Flo on my first house, but i moved out of that house only about a year after installation, so i never got to see if it had issues. Now, you can't even buy all the Moen Flo meters anymore. The 1" model has been out of stock for over a year, and the 3/4" and 1.25" have only been in stock intermittently.
What do you mean you cant buy the Moen Flo anymore? Amazon shows all 3 size models available.
@@nappyjim I guess things changed in 5 months. It wasn't available before as I noted, for quite some time too.
Flume just moved a bunch of stuff from behind the paywall to the free tier, it'd be interesting to see a follow-up.
I noticed that too, plus with a referral link, the Flume 2 can be purchased from their website for $180. With the update of having more access within the free tier, I think the Flume is a solid investment and best overall choice between the units reviewed in this video. I’ve had a few instances where my irrigation system malfunctioned, flooding my yard, and using hundreds of gallons of water before one of neighbors messaged me to let me know. I think I’m going to buy the Flume 2 as my feeling is it’s better to have it and never need it be the other way around.
Hey i am trying to find a simple smart water pressure sensor that can tell me when the water company supply is off. This would let me know when I am operating on my tanks. Any suggestions?
Is there a point in all this without moisture detectors tied to automatic shutoff?
Phyn plus is another choice that has the same shutoff features as the moen flo. I bought one from Costco on sale for $500 and have been happy with it overall.
My main gripe with the Phyn was the app, is it the same interface as the one in the video?
I was hoping the phyn plus was going to be in this video. Great to know the Moen one no longer has a subscription.
@@TheHookUpThe app is the same but it also has full integration with Amazon Echo. I have my YoLink leak sensors integrated with Phyn plus. If a leak is detected via the YoLink sensors, my Amazon Echo will turn off the Phyn valve. The Phyn plus is also mil standard rated to work outside.
I got in on the Phyn Plus when it was still in beta and it's been great. Saved me when the kid left the tub running and then decided to go back to their room... It's identified toilet leaks that were so small I didn't even know there was a problem. I do agree the app is clunky and the lack of api is disappointing.
Same interface as the one in the video except it also gives you real time water usage, water temperature and pressure
The problem with the internet based systems is if you are using their API you want samples fairly often to detect leaks. Then if your internet becomes disconnected the system becomes useless for monitoring for emergencies.
Nice and helpful review though! Thank you
The Moen Flo was a standout for me, but the Flume 2 was also very good. I made an error in the chart at 7:25, the Flume subscription should say "$49/yr, not $49/mo". What do you think about the new subscription plan (They basically give you a year free by discounting the purchase price by $49). I'm personally not a fan, will it prevent you from buying it?
Great review, but my conclusion is I will continue using my Flume, works flawlessly and I have used their useful api. $50/yr subscription seems reasonable to me. There is no free lunch to have permanent cloud access to your water data. It has promptly caught several significant leaks and paid for itself. Thanks for the extensive testing! I am grandfathered in their no cost subscription, but if they started charging me $50/yr, I would continue to use it.
i am all for subscription plan as an easy way to have notification and pattern monitoring off device.
Cloud cost a lot.
But that should be an option, and the device need to have it's basic usage off cloud and for free (monitoring without history, shut off, thing like that)
So none of them will do the cut. No local, no buy
Hey Rob, this looked like a lot of work! Great review. Question: For the Flume 2, can you integrate with Home Assistant without the subscription plan? It looks like you can, just not 100% sure. Thanks!
@make it work yep, everything works without the subscription with the Moen.
@@vlycop7404 It blows me away that local is not an option on most mainstream products.
Both Lowes & Home Depot locally here show the Moen Flo for $499 but they're "out of stock" & "unavailable" .. probably because Moen raised the price WAY above that. The 3/4" version is now $984 on Amazon. I've already added a WiFi controller to the shutoff ball valve on the main water line in the garage so I can fairly quickly shut if off if I get an alert. I'd like the automatic shutoff but not at that price. I'm going with the Flume 2
That is unfortunately the work of scalpers. Moen hasn't changed the MSRP, they just don't have any stock. Once stock becomes available it will go back to its normal price.
Good video. Thanks. One small bit of feedback... at the beginning of the video, you indicate that the consumption is 27.1 cubic feet. The next line should therefore have a 3 exponent, as in 27.1 ft^3.
Good catch.
Smart home products should not have a monthly fee to enable connection to Home Assistant (or other compatible HUB), a fee for value add cloud services - maybe, but it's no guarantee the company will stay in business.
What will happen if the AC power goes out does it still work?
Moen now requires a subscription as of 2023.
From what I found, this includes a $5000 coverage and extends the 1 yr warranty to 5 years. I don't think the functionality changes though, so it is still somewhat a good valve.
Would the Moen Flo work with a deep well?
Hi Rob, I think there is a home brew option here that is feasible. Pull together a pressure sensor, a motorised valve and and water meter camera recognition (for the numbers) and you're off to the best of all these systems with no cloud involvement. I can see a pressure sensor and motorised valve running from an ESP8266 and the water meter reading from an ESP32 cam running AI to character read the dials/numbers... All fed back to NodeRed and Home Assistant. In true home automation style, this is totally a DIY possible option and loops together a lot of your previous independant training skills.
I like that solution!
@dougle03 I'm very interested. Can you provide more info specifically on the camera reading the meter
Hello, I live in Florida and the main line enters the house through stucco/cement block and then directly into the concrete foundation. There isn't indoor main-line access. Is it OK to install the Moem Flo outdoors, on the main line, and cover it with a watertight box or housing ? Thank you
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: The Moen Flo is rated for outdoor use, but all the negative reviews that I read about the Flo were specifically about water intrusion into the power port when mounted outside.
How does the Flume 2 connect to it's bridge component? If it's wifi, might it be blocked by being underground? (When I tested that by putting my phone next to my meter, it had no connectivity whatsoever.)
I'd guess something significantly lower power like LoRa or RF433.
Hello, I have watched almost all your videos and have really learned a lot. Thank you very much for that! But apparently I have not learned enough. I would like to use a water flow meter in my motorhome to turn on the water pump when water is taken. The water flow meter gives pulses (444/l) when the water flows. I have created a rule for this that works quite well. Unfortunately the rule is repeated with every impulse, but I only want a MQTT message when the event changes. So only when impulses come or no further impulses come. I just can't manage that. This is my current rule: Rule2
ON COUNTER#C1>%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP ON; power6 on ENDON
ON COUNTER#C1=%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP OFF; power6 off endif ENDON - I also tried something like this: Rule2
ON COUNTER#C1>%var1% DO Backlog var1 %value%; publish tele/van1/WATERPUMP ON; var2 %value%; add1 2; sub2 2 ENDON
ON COUNTER#C1
Phyn offers a whole home water main solution as well, Phyn Plus. Did you happen to come across this one? I decided to pick this solution because it had what seemed to be the longest-lasting and high accuracy sensor (made in US by Badger, a major supplier for commercial water solutions). It does lack the API access, but no monthly fees (at the time Moen did). I'd be interested how it really stacks up against the others in your tests for accuracy, but I've been happy with it so far. Turns off when I forget the garden watering, kids leave water toys on too long, and has classified my usage very well. I hope they add some API access, but really, having a standalone for what is really an emergency system isn't bad. I'm sure there are some automations I could think of, but does what I need.
Yeah, I mostly didn't include it because of cost creep in the video and because I didn't have any more room in my plumbing, lol. That said, my least favorite part about the Phyn was the app and lack of API, which would be the same for the Phyn Plus.
@The Hook Up so i live in a apartment in a a country where hot and cold water are separately fed to the apartment from a central hot cold system. so my question can one still make use of these types of systems?
I would guess you would need to buy two for monitoring each line.
Can you review the bulldog?
interesting product and clear vedio,
could this work with Hubitat ?
community.hubitat.com/t/moen-flo-virtual-device/9677/27
@@TheHookUp thanks a lot,
I love your channel,you cover a lot of interesting things in your vedios .
Rob, will you also test and review the Phyn plus shutoff monitor?
Unlikely. Not only is it more expensive, but my biggest gripe with the Phyn was the software, which is the same for the Phyn plus.
@@TheHookUp Phyn Plus 2nd Gen came out in November and it is $499--same as Flo. My theory is Flo set the price on the market. There are definitely pros and cons to the data Flo and Phyn share. Flo's long term tracking is fantastic whereas Phyn only has the current temp/pressure/flow, but the plumbing check information on Phyn Plus is detailed and extremely useful which Flo doesn't share.
Great video Rob! I did want to point out something that could help with the ultrasonic meter’s accuracy, namely flow conditioning. This is very commonly done using upstream and downstream pipe diameters with nothing besides straight pipe. With liquids, 10 pipe diameters upstream and 5 pipe diameters of the transducers, which are typically what is considered minimums. That means no process connections, no 90’s, no valves etc. If you don’t have 10 up and 5 down (more is better), the offset is typically very repeatable, so you basically factor in a multiplier to account for the difference. I’m surprised the manufacturer doesn’t allow for a meter factor to be implemented (I.e. if your flow is 7% low, multiply the metered flow rate by 1.07, if it’s high by 3%, multiply by .97 etc. to get accurate flow rates/totals). Maybe this could be done in HA? I sell and work on several different flow meter technologies and manufacturers, with ultrasonic meters being included from several of them, and every USM I’m aware of require flow conditioning, which can be accomplished with several different methods other than straight pipe run, but regardless of the method, they all basically put the flow into a consistent profile throughout the whole cross section being measured. The video you showed explains how transit time works easily enough but doesn’t go into turbulent vs laminar flow, which will definitely effect the measurement and it looks like not only do you have the USM downstream of the paddle meter but also directly downstream of 90’s and connectors, all of which will decrease accuracy. If you were to put the USM on a straight run of 10” (assuming you have 1” pipe) then the meter spool, then 5” downstream, then 90 back into the Moen meter and back into your house, you should get much higher accuracy, assuming the USM can obtain higher accuracy to begin with. Sorry, the measurement side of me felt compelled to speak up! I do love your videos and appreciate what you do for sure!
So I just wrote the same thing and after posting saw your comment. Well said!
I'm quite surprised that your going this route at all ?
I've seen your Home Assistant, and your very knowledgeable.
So why not smack one out of the park, and go the distance ?
Why not use an actual water meter with pulse output, .and electronic shut off ?
They are extremely accurate and durable. Run about $75 dollars for the meter, and $25 for the shut off.
Then tie it into an esp32 and do the programming yourself.
You can custome build it to your exact specifications.
What got me interested in monitoring our water usage was leaving the hose on in the back yard and just using the spray nozzle to turn on and off the water.
We went away for a long weekend and the hose burst. Fortunately the spraying noise annoyed my neighbor enough that he came over to investigate and he turned off the spigot for us.
That's when I started my journey into the world of home Utomation.
Using an actual meter is so accurate, that it notified me of drip leak that accured when My toilet flapper started to ware.
But I relied on timing circuits and relays to do the dirty work. I just recently started working with HA
I have so many cool ideas on home Automation's but lack the knowledge you have.
I just started using home Assistant, but I can't seme to make my first node function.
But I am determined to watch as many RUclips videos as It take, to make the damn thing work.
So........ you need to Keep making these videos until I get this right !
Maybe you can explain why my node just stairs at me, wanting to be adopted but nothing else.
No Phyn Plus testing??
The Phyn unit does indeed shut water off during an unidentified occurrence however not until 7 or 8 minutes past. A high flow rate of 8 GPM will dump 60 Gallons before activating a shut-off. We discovered this when our seasonal irrigation became active. Imagine if we had an inside pipe break and it took 7 minutes to shut down. What a mess that would be.
Thanks for doing all of this and basically confirming that a DIY solution is beyond worth the effort! I was looking into all of these and was blown away by how terrible and grossly expensive they all are. A bit disgusting IMHO as they are preying on fear of water damage.
I was literally just researching smart water flow meters earlier today! I was thinking I should ask The Hook Up! Have you tried to DIY this?
DIY my main water supply? That's a big nope for me.
The goal of smart meters is to save money by being able to monitor usage and detect leaks. Subscription kills the first critical point of replacing the 'dumb' meter with the smart one. Naaa thanks but no, thanks. Otherwise Rob, good video as always.
The target market is likely people who are weighing the costs of damage and repairs against the cost of the unit and subscription. As water can easily run into the thousands /tens-of-thousands for damage and repairs, even a $500 unit with $10/mo only has to save you from one major leak to break even / save you money. This is borne out in some of the comments here even. That said - I completely agree with you that a product shouldn't need a subscription to work.
@@cpattullo1 IDK, if that's the main goal, then I think I would end up paying twice. I already pay insurance to protect me from that and that is something I have to have because it is required by my mortgage lender etc. Yes, you could say this is "double insurance", but I don't like to pay twice for the same thing. This is why it is not the main benefit in my opinion. But again, we agree a product shouldn't need a subscription to work.
@@CMDRSloma as someone who recently went through 3 months of insurance-covered repairs from a burst pipe in the freeze here in Texas, I can confidently say I wish I had one of these installed, even at the ~$400 price tag and subscription. Having your flooring, cabinets, and drywall ripped out throughout your home sucks...terribly.