If This Does Not Work How About Using a SnowMobile Veramatic CVT style Gearbox? You will keep the fast 60 foot and gain a lot of top speed too? Great work as allways guys!
I would suggest not adding a "Bar" for support. Use a plate that covers the whole port hole and mount it in at least 6 places. This will give you support in all directions versus just the one direction the bar will give you.
I use to drag race Polaris scramblers and you can play with the springs, weights and dogs in those clutches to get more stall out of them. Worked pretty awesome on the quads we ran. Might be something to look into later down the road once you get her dialed in.
This! These adjustments can also be used to set the rpm range the engine runs at while the clutches are engaged and shifting, allowing them to make sure they are in the optimal power band for the turbo.
15:25 Ike's frustration that John spent 3 hrs doing stupid crap while he and Charles were working their asses off *almost* shows through the facade. Having him not be in the way for a few hours was probably worth it though.
You don't have to move the rear pulley back, you simply need to increase the distance between the two pulleys and this could be done more easily by raising the rear pully straight up maybe 5-9". This way, you keep the integrity of the firewall and it is faster to do, using some bar stock. Looks like you have the clearance above. You could always slot the mount holes to make it a little bit adjustable as well. Nice job though fellows. It will be great to see how it runs with the new parts.
One thing you might want to add is an onboard fire extinguisher system. I have one on my classic car. I took a co2 paintball tank and ran hoses to the engine compartment and one nozzle in front of the intake. one pull of a handle and it dumps all the co2 directly onto the engine effectively starving the fire and engine of oxygen, shutting both down instantly. Just my 2 cents but it might be a good thing to look into. In your setup you could have co2 nozzles on firewall facing the engine as well as one co2 hose plumbed into the air filter.
Instead of just guessing at your primary to secondary (drive to driven) distance, the razor manual should have a center to center measurement. This is a critical measurement and you want to be within a few millimeters. Perhaps even more critical, you should also have a clutch alignment tool, or do a LOT of research and make sure that you are aligned properly (left to right and PERFECTLY parallel) if either of these things are off, you will lose a lot of efficiency and destroy belts.
Makes me wonder why you did not start by measuring the distance between the pulleys with the belt tensioned before you cut up the frame. The porthole placement seemed sort of random since it gave you way more space to move the engine backwards than forwards. Was moving it forwards not a option?
just to tell you guys, the moments during the ads your making for companys, don't make me want to skip to the video because u don't go crazy on the ads like "yo brooooooo you need shave your bread with THATTTTTT kit ..." u're making the ad really zen so i love this
Its always a blast watching your build process, and trial and error sometimes is better than trying to be perfect out the box, you definitely learn more
I feel like this engine and transmission setup would be really cool on a mid engine chassis. You guys should build like a mid engine almost supercar themed. With really good suspension and steering and obviously a lot of power just like a supercar. Call it the Superkart.
Like a crosskart? Have you seen how the suspension works on anything they cobble together? They don't learn from thier mistakes or educate themselves on why things don't work.
The old chain guard won't work being you moved the jack shaft, the angles are off. Oh, and make the cover plate the same size as the outer diameter of the port and bolt it to it, that will make it nice and strong.
Moving the engine forward seems to be your best bet, and instead of using tubing for the chain guard, use a bicycle style chain guard, you'll still be able to use the tensioner as planned, only now you won't have tubing restricting the chain movement and you'll be just as safe
They’ve cut the frame to add the “porthole” and only accommodated for the engine moving backwards. You would of thought they would of tried the belt when it was just mocked up 😬
The reason why you guys have such a great following is because yall listen to your viewers along with other great reasons of course you guys are awesome that chain tensioner was my idea along with others here too just awesome I've been a long time subscriber since you guys first started its great to see how far you guys came along this will always be my number one go to RUclips channel
I like the porthole idea. Is there a reason that you can't make the "Go or Blow" cover a bit larger and bolt it directly to the face of the porthole? This way it can double as a structural member, reinforcing this area.
Charles there's 16 ticks in an inch on a tape. So 1 tick less than 1 3/4 would be 1 11/16. So you don't ever have to say tick again unless your dog comes home with one. Build looks great guys
I think you guys should add a shield around the torque converter just in case it decides to grenade again. Probably wont but theres not much in the way of it and the driver ya know.
Last time sorry. On the driven clutch looking at it when it rotates it slides towards you so if you have something against the front and back of it then it will not expand. You can also “pry” them apart to expand them to help center the belt. Love the clutch you guys picked it has a lot of good feedback when the rpm’s get up.
9:32 John... "and we made it oval to tension the belt" Ike says..." this will let up side the motor backwards " 🤦♂️ and that's the point he knew he fucked up 🤣
This is my favorite series you have going. And next would be the KX 80 bikes. The minibike mountain trip was cool too. Your sponsorships feel a lot more genuine than other channels I watch. I want yall to make $, just be honest with us when something sucks or doesn't suck. Honesty is much appreciated. Thanks for the vids crew.
Being a snowmobile guy I could see right off that the clutches were way too close together. But it shouldn’t be too terrible to solve that problem. Looking forward to seeing what you do in the next video. 👍
Same here.. I can R&R any Polaris from the mid 80's to early 2000's, blindfolded. I did some engine work on my brother's S-RV 540. We had that rig going 105 across Kobuk Lake, leaving the super cub chase plane behind on the run to Noorvik.
You guys inspired me to build a 420cc hard framed mini bike years ago when I was 14 I was nervous about attempting a big swap like that but you guys gave me the motivation to just go for it and it was a blast
That's a fine 'primary clutch'. CVT stands for constant velocity transmission. It performs the function of keeping the motor in the powerband while the secondary clutch turns that power into torque. The degree of ramping on the helix will be what you want to tune for the proper power to torque ratio. First you will have to get the weights and spring in the primary clutch dialed in for the hp that you are getting.. Hope this advice helps you.
I thought it was an acronym for continuously variable transmission. But I don't disagree with your explanation for how they function. They basically keep your engine at a constant rpm throughout the pull. 🍻
5:1 ratio is gonna dull your holeshot with the wheel diameter You have. 9t and 60t will give you the demon ratio 6.66:1. It'll get you outta the hole fast, keep the engine rpm lower so you have more throttle down the line.
just imagine if you waited on the "port hole" till the belt came in you couldve just moved it further forward and extended the engine mounts this why you mock up things first try it again boys
what if you set it up dual carb 20-22mm instead, you'd have the same air flow but you'd have 2 main jets you can max out and possibly get closer to the correct afr. or even 3 carbs.
On your notch porthole I woulda capped the inside first. That way you could have welded the tubing to that. Then capped the outside. Other than that little thing overall looks pretty good.
It seems like John doesn’t do much of anything anymore other than try to act like a boss and talks a lot it kind of takes all the excitement out of waiting for the video to drop. Don’t get me wrong. I like your guys’ content.
Get a magnetic base and indicator for checking run out of that rear chain gear. Use to check run out of everything. Machinist long time ago. A lathe and Bridgeport type mill will make race engine leading to production facility.
Find the Center to Center distance between the crankshaft the secondary shaft. Then you can determine the proper belt length. You guys are on the right track with this set up . Both clutches can be “ tuned “ with different springs and weights for the drive clutch. Can’t wait to see this thing rip..
They need to look up the specs for the Razor it came from. The service manual will state center to center and also the offset alignment so they don't chew up belts. It would save them a lot of trial and error.
I Thought the bigger the front gear was an smaller the back gear is the top speed would be faster just slower on take off like with rc cars but really love the project wish. I had it to run an play with most all y'alls toys look fun to ride
If you ran out of gear at 3/4 track, you've just gone the wrong way. It'll launch harder now but run out of gear even faster. Combine that with a 'more than capable' clutch that's going have full travel (1st thru 6th as you stated), you'll need to add wheelie bars! Still an awesome build, it'll be interesting to see the results.
Well I am glad to see the progress. I also recommended the Harley transmission. Also the the drag top fuel Harley’s use a two speed centrifugal clutch which when the rpm gets right is changes gear. look into it. It works great on the Top Fuel Harleys. I got to see one up close at the all Harley drags one year at Houston Raceway Park. Standing at the start area where the do the burn outs was crazy. Well done Guys!!!
2:49 -- I appreciate your explanation and I understand not wanting to put any unnecessary strain on the axle. But I think the question you really need to be asking is if you actually want to put 70+ hp through a go kart axle with a keyway. So what you're really telling us here is you chose to go back with a cvt to protect a part that you know is a problem anyway.
Oh I can't wait to see this revamped monster go down the drag strip. As for your chain tensioner, you might want to consider removing some of the lower part of your chain guard. If you think about it, you'll already have the much needed protection from the top of your chain guard.
Hey Ike, look at the Cushman Truckster 3 speed driveline. That bell, clutch, transmission setup and a plethora of golf cart differentials would be a good setup behind that turbo motor. It would allow you to lose the chaindrive.
Always wait for parts to mock up and get everything figured out before cutting stuff up boyos. That motor needs moved forward quite a bit. Excited to see what y'all do to remedy this situation. This thing is gonna be a beast on the track.
Do not put the secondary through the firewall. That is the only thing keeping your foot in one piece if that belt explodes. Probably wont happen as all of your CVT drivetrain is built for more than double the power you are currently making but better safe than sorry. Also I'm sure you guys have lots of cvt experience but those Polaris clutches are very picky with the belt tension and left/right alignment. Any Polaris techs here know exactly what I'm talking about. Good luck! very interesting build
Why not slide the engine forward? PS you want the belt tight as possible without moving the wheels at idle. Your going to need to be able to adjust that as the belt stretches on break in(few passes). The primary spring rate controls rpm engagement (launch rpm). You dial this in your going to love the improvement.
I don’t pay much attention to comments but I’d sure hope people don’t discredit the work they do. While it is go-carts it’s still impressive to see some of the fixes they come up with “ port hole “. Keep up the good work guys. It may be slow but it sounds fast lol
Ok so, Polaris belts usually have 11 1/2 to 12 inches apart from drive centrifugal clutch to driven centrifugal clutch. You can also get clutch kits to keep your rpm for max boost at the appropriate rpm. Which is just badass.
Honestly guys I wouldn't worry about a bar or plate for the "port hole". Since you guys boxed it in and fully welded it up, those things aren't needed. But the cover John made just adds that extra nice touch
You can actually run the CVT through a transmission.. In fact the fastest cars (next to Top Fuel Dragster/Top Fuel Funny Car) run a torque converter into a manual transmission in Pro Mod. Doing so allows you to keep the engine rpm up and just bang through the gears without the massive drop in rpm that you typically get. The other way to do that is to have a strain gauge and spark interrupter that when you shift gears it senses the lever moving, cuts the ignition for however long you have it set to and then reengages it when you let off the lever. (or you can use an air shifter that does the same thing) That is what Pro Stock Bike and NHRA Top Fuel Motorcycle and regular Pro Stock use. Using that you only get roughly a 500rpm drop instead of ~3000+ that you typically get. Moving the engine behind the driver would've made installing that new CVT much easier than where you have it.
You can slice your Oval and move the front 1/3 forward along with the engine.Solves your belt problems and you can space the oval to look equal.The lower frame tube comes in at a great spot to cut too.You can hide splice supports inside the oval.
Two comments: You could use a laser level or one of those things for doing tile to get your sprockets square with each other. You probably want to weld some gussets from the existing frame rail to the side of the porthole... Figure a flat bottom, then go up at a 45 degree angle and tie that into the hoop. do that top and bottom on both main tubes, that way you're not relying solely on a face weld to hold that in place.
Make sure you find the correct center to center, clutch measurement for the machine you got the clutches from. Then you can use the stock belt from that machine and use the correct belt deflection.
you should look into the timing chain guides on a ford 4.6 dohc engine. they use use a very interesting way to keep tension on the timing chains that may work in your application.
U don't have to rebuild boost between gear changes with no lift shifting via a kill box like u use with air shifted bikes or the n2mb 2 step no lift shifting box that u control ignition kill time which allows you to shift without over reving and whatnot
If the rear end gets tore up you can upgrade it to a JOHN DEER work cart rear end. That would be alot better. You can always cut the axel down to fit the drag cart. Also you could use larger wheels and tires on the rear axel. "I ALREADY HAVE A BEARD!" Good luck after all that work!
Maybe it is a good idea to get your parts that are essential for motor mounting and drive train positions first before you start cutting a frame and giving things their final mounting positions.
Well done guy's.....Charles.....about getting closer to your better-half... I have one word to say after 46 years of getting "closer"......RUN !!...... LOL
If my calculations are correct, for a crank torque of 60 ft-lbs, through a Harley gearbox with a 3:1 first gear and 3:1 final drive (for example), you'd get a max stress in a 1.25" shaft of about 18ksi. Heat treated 4140 has a yield strength of roughly 100ksi.
The engine needs to be behind the driver and the secondary clutch directly on drive axel for the best distribution of power to the ground and weight on the frame.
"One tick under 3" 3/4" 😂 very precise measurement there 😂😂😂👍 love it!!! they should just get a metric measuring tape at this point, (metric like the world intended)
Have you thought about making the driven pulley adjustable? Maybe in a similar way that a rear axle is adjustable on motorcycles... Could prove to be very convenient when a replacement belt is needed and the length you want isn't available.
I believe that the same police are clutches is what they use on a player snowmobile and I know my dad had a early 2000s Polaris XC 800 two-stroke snowmobile that put out $140 something horsepower from the factory that's the right setup for what you guys are doing that's for sure
I would love to see you guys work on an old Gilson-wards minibike. There a rare old bike from the 70's made of one inch tubing that uses a jackshaft system to compensate for it's rear suspension. There really cool bikes but they need to be built right since there so rare. At least, here up north there pretty rare.
For the power you're making, i'd say a 14/40 gearset would be optimal for an 1/8th mile. We run 300' on small engine toys, sometimes 330'. Also, remember there's 2 gears on your jackshaft, if they're not the same tooth count, you're gearing will be way off.
What about using a tensioner on the belt?? I know going up with it will take away some traction against the pulling but honestly that thing is waaaay over rated for what your doing.. and the best part is u only need a skate board wheel and truck.. just weld it in place.. I got u guys!! Live the work as well.. p.s. belt driven cvt's have equal pressure on all points. It will not matter whether u put it ontop or on bottom.. and u won't be able to squeeze the belt inward either. U will have to carry the belt outward creating 3 points instead of just two.
The bottom 'tube' moving with the tensioner sprocket is a great plan.Allot safer with the chain encased.PLEASE get rid of the methanol and jet in NOS instead.It ran so well on premium fuel that NOS will just give the bursts of extra to launch and finish the runs.
maybe look at getting a double sprocket and chain set up on the one side too going back to the drive axel redundancy and would handle the aceleration forces better before breaking
I would just cut out the top of your chain guard however far the chain needs to clear, including stretch. I like coming back to these extended projects.
the only thing you may have to do is get different a different spring and/or weights for the primary clutch since the engagement of polaris engines are a few thousand rpm higher.
Pretty cool idea that you guys did there on your clutch on and off but at least on the top side I would have bent pipe and put around and welded it instead of boxing it in there but it'll work
Charles sure glad you joined the boys, because the ole " it'll be fine ", sure was getting pretty scatchy more times than not before you joined the team. I also think you hold back far more times than you want to, but it's understandable why you do, and I don't agree with your decision at lot of the time. Hopefully it'll equal out so that all things are equal for every member of the entire team in a lot of ways. Understandable that something's are proportioned somewhat imbalanced due to time severed, are seniority. Yeah I understand that everyone probably reads comments, but that's fine. Nothing said that shouldn't be, and I stand behind what I say as a long time viewer, and subscriber. Long long time. Have a Great Day gentlemen, may Tomorrow be Even Better, and thanks for all the movies over the years.
1 tick under 3 3/4 huh?!?!...lol....god i love that u guys dont act all professional...down ta earth dudes...been watchin for about 3 years now keep it up fellas
Ike, this gear was for 120mph. Charles, I think your butt dino needs calibrated. I concur. The only chance that rail will ever have a chance to go 120mph is with the right set up and in the salt flats where you have a lot of room to run it out.
Move the engine forward. Keep yer porthole where it's at for service/repairs, but moving the engine ahead is the least invasive change to suit yer needs.
Hey guys, I'm loving the rail content, exactly what I've been waiting to see, this thing get some more power and go back to the drag strip! It was disappointing to see the problems with the belt at the end but that's what happens sometimes, right? Looks like you have a bunch more work to do on it but that's OK, more work = more content. LOL! Best of luck with it, I'll be watching for the next one. Take care and be safe, guys!
Was hoping you guys would have put a Harley divorced style trans in it. Get some clutch dump and sequential shift action. Also no lift shifts still build boost.
Being a snowmobile guru, I’m guessing even with the turbo, that motor won’t have enough power to pull the amount of weight in the primary and the stock spring is going to be too stiff. Second, if the secondary clutch helix ramp is to aggressive or steep of an angle and it doesn’t have the correct spring for the horsepower it won’t shift correctly. Lots of power to be gained or lost through the clutching.
Why not raise the driven pulley? You can increase the gap without having to cut into the firewall. You'll have to move the chain guide and everything too but it seems like that needs heavy modifications anyways so...
Maybe good time to think of building a new chassis slightly wider and Inprove on your set up.Look at some old drag chassis and build a nostalgic design maybe for turbo street bike motor.
You need to check on a Can-Am belt. When I get up tomorrow I can give you how long the belt is an how wide it is. My Can-Am has 200 hp.. most all side by sides use cvt clutch and an the same belt.
i wish i was there i would tell ya first put belt on and move engine forward to see if belt is tight then cut frame and welded i dont see why someone would skipped this step i love to see that 670cc drag race back on track
Grow your best beard today and take 20% off your first order when you go to www.BeardClub.com/carsandcameras and use code carsandcameras.
Will do
Do you even know what your demographic is. They don't even have hair on thier balls Smh.
You should change the name to Cars Cameras and Beards. It has a nice ring to it LOL!
If This Does Not Work How About Using a SnowMobile Veramatic CVT style Gearbox? You will keep the fast 60 foot and gain a lot of top speed too? Great work as allways guys!
i love how you guys find new ways to try and kill my buddy Isacc
I would suggest not adding a "Bar" for support. Use a plate that covers the whole port hole and mount it in at least 6 places. This will give you support in all directions versus just the one direction the bar will give you.
This is the way
From a structural designer POV, I agree. The snazzy cover plate should have encompassed the entire outer edge of the porthole, bolted in.
I agree but keep in mind this is an issue of making it "strong enough" not necessarily as strong as possible
@@acorby100 lol most underrated comment here.
@@acorby100 knows de way
I’m really liking the drag rail content coming back and I like the direction of the upgrades trying to get the most out of the 670
10 years from now it will have a turbo zx14 motor lol
I use to drag race Polaris scramblers and you can play with the springs, weights and dogs in those clutches to get more stall out of them. Worked pretty awesome on the quads we ran. Might be something to look into later down the road once you get her dialed in.
This! These adjustments can also be used to set the rpm range the engine runs at while the clutches are engaged and shifting, allowing them to make sure they are in the optimal power band for the turbo.
15:25 Ike's frustration that John spent 3 hrs doing stupid crap while he and Charles were working their asses off *almost* shows through the facade. Having him not be in the way for a few hours was probably worth it though.
You don't have to move the rear pulley back, you simply need to increase the distance between the two pulleys and this could be done more easily by raising the rear pully straight up maybe 5-9". This way, you keep the integrity of the firewall and it is faster to do, using some bar stock. Looks like you have the clearance above. You could always slot the mount holes to make it a little bit adjustable as well. Nice job though fellows. It will be great to see how it runs with the new parts.
One thing you might want to add is an onboard fire extinguisher system. I have one on my classic car. I took a co2 paintball tank and ran hoses to the engine compartment and one nozzle in front of the intake. one pull of a handle and it dumps all the co2 directly onto the engine effectively starving the fire and engine of oxygen, shutting both down instantly. Just my 2 cents but it might be a good thing to look into.
In your setup you could have co2 nozzles on firewall facing the engine as well as one co2 hose plumbed into the air filter.
Instead of just guessing at your primary to secondary (drive to driven) distance, the razor manual should have a center to center measurement. This is a critical measurement and you want to be within a few millimeters. Perhaps even more critical, you should also have a clutch alignment tool, or do a LOT of research and make sure that you are aligned properly (left to right and PERFECTLY parallel) if either of these things are off, you will lose a lot of efficiency and destroy belts.
Did you ever imagine 3 years ago that you'd have someone filming you shaving lol
Lol no but I’m not mad about it
It's a new market for onlyfans lol
Did you ever imagine 3 years ago they would start putting adds every 2 min
@@billylingle7724 I pay for premium….. then still usually have to the actual content maker/makers read out an ad 🙄
@@billylingle7724 youtubevanced or RUclipsvanced no ads period fuck yotube ads
Makes me wonder why you did not start by measuring the distance between the pulleys with the belt tensioned before you cut up the frame.
The porthole placement seemed sort of random since it gave you way more space to move the engine backwards than forwards. Was moving it forwards not a option?
just to tell you guys, the moments during the ads your making for companys, don't make me want to skip to the video because u don't go crazy on the ads like "yo brooooooo you need shave your bread with THATTTTTT kit ..." u're making the ad really zen so i love this
Its always a blast watching your build process, and trial and error sometimes is better than trying to be perfect out the box, you definitely learn more
I feel like this engine and transmission setup would be really cool on a mid engine chassis. You guys should build like a mid engine almost supercar themed. With really good suspension and steering and obviously a lot of power just like a supercar. Call it the Superkart.
Look up formula 500 cars here on youtube, they are all mid engine race cars that use snowmobile engines.
Watching them chop up that frame was horrifying all because they want to keep using that engine it's like watching them put lipstick on a pig.
Like a crosskart? Have you seen how the suspension works on anything they cobble together? They don't learn from thier mistakes or educate themselves on why things don't work.
@@davolbc the worst part is they(iketard) botched it's placement so they can't just slide the motor forward. He's so dumb.
The old chain guard won't work being you moved the jack shaft, the angles are off.
Oh, and make the cover plate the same size as the outer diameter of the port and bolt it to it, that will make it nice and strong.
Moving the engine forward seems to be your best bet, and instead of using tubing for the chain guard, use a bicycle style chain guard, you'll still be able to use the tensioner as planned, only now you won't have tubing restricting the chain movement and you'll be just as safe
They’ve cut the frame to add the “porthole” and only accommodated for the engine moving backwards. You would of thought they would of tried the belt when it was just mocked up 😬
The reason why you guys have such a great following is because yall listen to your viewers along with other great reasons of course you guys are awesome that chain tensioner was my idea along with others here too just awesome I've been a long time subscriber since you guys first started its great to see how far you guys came along this will always be my number one go to RUclips channel
I like the porthole idea. Is there a reason that you can't make the "Go or Blow" cover a bit larger and bolt it directly to the face of the porthole? This way it can double as a structural member, reinforcing this area.
The cover looks heavy. Maybe make it out of Aluminum?
Charles there's 16 ticks in an inch on a tape. So 1 tick less than 1 3/4 would be 1 11/16. So you don't ever have to say tick again unless your dog comes home with one. Build looks great guys
I think you guys should add a shield around the torque converter just in case it decides to grenade again. Probably wont but theres not much in the way of it and the driver ya know.
Bite the Bullet and move the Port and engine forward a bit!, Just cut the rail in front of the port and add it behind!
Last time sorry. On the driven clutch looking at it when it rotates it slides towards you so if you have something against the front and back of it then it will not expand. You can also “pry” them apart to expand them to help center the belt. Love the clutch you guys picked it has a lot of good feedback when the rpm’s get up.
9:32 John... "and we made it oval to tension the belt" Ike says..." this will let up side the motor backwards " 🤦♂️ and that's the point he knew he fucked up 🤣
This thing is gonna move OUT!
They're not ready to see that smoke.
This is my favorite series you have going. And next would be the KX 80 bikes. The minibike mountain trip was cool too. Your sponsorships feel a lot more genuine than other channels I watch. I want yall to make $, just be honest with us when something sucks or doesn't suck. Honesty is much appreciated. Thanks for the vids crew.
You have room to notch the firewall? Anyway, looking forward to the next episode!
@CarsandCameras Planning on putting anything else into LEO? 😁
Awesome fun! Is it possible to add a belt tensioner to take up the slack of the new (too long) belt?
Being a snowmobile guy I could see right off that the clutches were way too close together. But it shouldn’t be too terrible to solve that problem. Looking forward to seeing what you do in the next video. 👍
Same here.. I can R&R any Polaris from the mid 80's to early 2000's, blindfolded. I did some engine work on my brother's S-RV 540.
We had that rig going 105 across Kobuk Lake, leaving the super cub chase plane behind on the run to Noorvik.
You guys inspired me to build a 420cc hard framed mini bike years ago when I was 14 I was nervous about attempting a big swap like that but you guys gave me the motivation to just go for it and it was a blast
That's a fine 'primary clutch'.
CVT stands for constant velocity transmission. It performs the function of keeping the motor in the powerband while the secondary clutch turns that power into torque. The degree of ramping on the helix will be what you want to tune for the proper power to torque ratio. First you will have to get the weights and spring in the primary clutch dialed in for the hp that you are getting.. Hope this advice helps you.
I thought it was an acronym for continuously variable transmission. But I don't disagree with your explanation for how they function. They basically keep your engine at a constant rpm throughout the pull. 🍻
20:00 im a professional polaris technition and i know that the secondary drive pully on snowmobiles are adjustable tith a special tool in the side
5:1 ratio is gonna dull your holeshot with the wheel diameter You have. 9t and 60t will give you the demon ratio 6.66:1. It'll get you outta the hole fast, keep the engine rpm lower so you have more throttle down the line.
just imagine if you waited on the "port hole" till the belt came in you couldve just moved it further forward and extended the engine mounts this why you mock up things first try it again boys
what if you set it up dual carb 20-22mm instead, you'd have the same air flow but you'd have 2 main jets you can max out and possibly get closer to the correct afr. or even 3 carbs.
On your notch porthole I woulda capped the inside first. That way you could have welded the tubing to that. Then capped the outside. Other than that little thing overall looks pretty good.
It seems like John doesn’t do much of anything anymore other than try to act like a boss and talks a lot it kind of takes all the excitement out of waiting for the video to drop. Don’t get me wrong. I like your guys’ content.
Get a magnetic base and indicator for checking run out of that rear chain gear. Use to check run out of everything. Machinist long time ago. A lathe and Bridgeport type mill will make race engine leading to production facility.
Find the Center to Center distance between the crankshaft the secondary shaft. Then you can determine the proper belt length. You guys are on the right track with this set up . Both clutches can be “ tuned “ with different springs and weights for the drive clutch. Can’t wait to see this thing rip..
They need to look up the specs for the Razor it came from. The service manual will state center to center and also the offset alignment so they don't chew up belts. It would save them a lot of trial and error.
I Thought the bigger the front gear was an smaller the back gear is the top speed would be faster just slower on take off like with rc cars but really love the project wish. I had it to run an play with most all y'alls toys look fun to ride
You are correct, If the belt drive setup is "geared" the same as old one, I think they went the wrong way with that sprocket swap.
But they probably know that and did it wrong just to generate comments on the video. You Tuber money makin tactics. LOL
Yes you’re right. But they went from a 16t front sprocket to a 13t to increase low end
Yeah, I think they have gone the wrong way with the gearing.
If you ran out of gear at 3/4 track, you've just gone the wrong way. It'll launch harder now but run out of gear even faster. Combine that with a 'more than capable' clutch that's going have full travel (1st thru 6th as you stated), you'll need to add wheelie bars!
Still an awesome build, it'll be interesting to see the results.
Well I am glad to see the progress.
I also recommended the Harley transmission.
Also the the drag top fuel Harley’s use a two speed centrifugal clutch which when the rpm gets right is changes gear.
look into it.
It works great on the Top Fuel Harleys.
I got to see one up close at the all Harley drags one year at Houston Raceway Park.
Standing at the start area where the do the burn outs was crazy.
Well done Guys!!!
2:49 -- I appreciate your explanation and I understand not wanting to put any unnecessary strain on the axle. But I think the question you really need to be asking is if you actually want to put 70+ hp through a go kart axle with a keyway. So what you're really telling us here is you chose to go back with a cvt to protect a part that you know is a problem anyway.
Oh I can't wait to see this revamped monster go down the drag strip. As for your chain tensioner, you might want to consider removing some of the lower part of your chain guard. If you think about it, you'll already have the much needed protection from the top of your chain guard.
Hey Ike, look at the Cushman Truckster 3 speed driveline. That bell, clutch, transmission setup and a plethora of golf cart differentials would be a good setup behind that turbo motor. It would allow you to lose the chaindrive.
Always wait for parts to mock up and get everything figured out before cutting stuff up boyos. That motor needs moved forward quite a bit. Excited to see what y'all do to remedy this situation. This thing is gonna be a beast on the track.
Do not put the secondary through the firewall. That is the only thing keeping your foot in one piece if that belt explodes. Probably wont happen as all of your CVT drivetrain is built for more than double the power you are currently making but better safe than sorry. Also I'm sure you guys have lots of cvt experience but those Polaris clutches are very picky with the belt tension and left/right alignment. Any Polaris techs here know exactly what I'm talking about. Good luck! very interesting build
Why not slide the engine forward? PS you want the belt tight as possible without moving the wheels at idle. Your going to need to be able to adjust that as the belt stretches on break in(few passes). The primary spring rate controls rpm engagement (launch rpm). You dial this in your going to love the improvement.
I don’t pay much attention to comments but I’d sure hope people don’t discredit the work they do. While it is go-carts it’s still impressive to see some of the fixes they come up with “ port hole “. Keep up the good work guys. It may be slow but it sounds fast lol
Ok so, Polaris belts usually have 11 1/2 to 12 inches apart from drive centrifugal clutch to driven centrifugal clutch. You can also get clutch kits to keep your rpm for max boost at the appropriate rpm. Which is just badass.
Honestly guys I wouldn't worry about a bar or plate for the "port hole". Since you guys boxed it in and fully welded it up, those things aren't needed. But the cover John made just adds that extra nice touch
You can actually run the CVT through a transmission.. In fact the fastest cars (next to Top Fuel Dragster/Top Fuel Funny Car) run a torque converter into a manual transmission in Pro Mod. Doing so allows you to keep the engine rpm up and just bang through the gears without the massive drop in rpm that you typically get. The other way to do that is to have a strain gauge and spark interrupter that when you shift gears it senses the lever moving, cuts the ignition for however long you have it set to and then reengages it when you let off the lever. (or you can use an air shifter that does the same thing) That is what Pro Stock Bike and NHRA Top Fuel Motorcycle and regular Pro Stock use. Using that you only get roughly a 500rpm drop instead of ~3000+ that you typically get. Moving the engine behind the driver would've made installing that new CVT much easier than where you have it.
You can slice your Oval and move the front 1/3 forward along with the engine.Solves your belt problems and you can space the oval to look equal.The lower frame tube comes in at a great spot to cut too.You can hide splice supports inside the oval.
Two comments:
You could use a laser level or one of those things for doing tile to get your sprockets square with each other.
You probably want to weld some gussets from the existing frame rail to the side of the porthole... Figure a flat bottom, then go up at a 45 degree angle and tie that into the hoop. do that top and bottom on both main tubes, that way you're not relying solely on a face weld to hold that in place.
Ditto on the laser for chain alignment. It makes things actually faster to align and way more accurate.
Make sure you find the correct center to center, clutch measurement for the machine you got the clutches from. Then you can use the stock belt from that machine and use the correct belt deflection.
you should look into the timing chain guides on a ford 4.6 dohc engine. they use use a very interesting way to keep tension on the timing chains that may work in your application.
U don't have to rebuild boost between gear changes with no lift shifting via a kill box like u use with air shifted bikes or the n2mb 2 step no lift shifting box that u control ignition kill time which allows you to shift without over reving and whatnot
9:40 "so the engine has plenty of room to go backwards?.....…yeah."
LoL I heard that
If the rear end gets tore up you can upgrade it to a JOHN DEER work cart rear end. That would be alot better. You can always cut the axel down to fit the drag cart. Also you could use larger wheels and tires on the rear axel. "I ALREADY HAVE A BEARD!" Good luck after all that work!
Maybe it is a good idea to get your parts that are essential for motor mounting and drive train positions first before you start cutting a frame and giving things their final mounting positions.
Well done guy's.....Charles.....about getting closer to your better-half... I have one word to say after 46 years of getting "closer"......RUN !!...... LOL
If my calculations are correct, for a crank torque of 60 ft-lbs, through a Harley gearbox with a 3:1 first gear and 3:1 final drive (for example), you'd get a max stress in a 1.25" shaft of about 18ksi. Heat treated 4140 has a yield strength of roughly 100ksi.
The engine needs to be behind the driver and the secondary clutch directly on drive axel for the best distribution of power to the ground and weight on the frame.
"One tick under 3" 3/4" 😂 very precise measurement there 😂😂😂👍 love it!!! they should just get a metric measuring tape at this point, (metric like the world intended)
Have you thought about making the driven pulley adjustable? Maybe in a similar way that a rear axle is adjustable on motorcycles... Could prove to be very convenient when a replacement belt is needed and the length you want isn't available.
I believe that the same police are clutches is what they use on a player snowmobile and I know my dad had a early 2000s Polaris XC 800 two-stroke snowmobile that put out $140 something horsepower from the factory that's the right setup for what you guys are doing that's for sure
I would love to see you guys work on an old Gilson-wards minibike. There a rare old bike from the 70's made of one inch tubing that uses a jackshaft system to compensate for it's rear suspension. There really cool bikes but they need to be built right since there so rare. At least, here up north there pretty rare.
I'd lengthen the porthole toward the front and move the engine forward rather than redoing the firewall, chain and jackshaft.
For the power you're making, i'd say a 14/40 gearset would be optimal for an 1/8th mile. We run 300' on small engine toys, sometimes 330'. Also, remember there's 2 gears on your jackshaft, if they're not the same tooth count, you're gearing will be way off.
What about using a tensioner on the belt?? I know going up with it will take away some traction against the pulling but honestly that thing is waaaay over rated for what your doing.. and the best part is u only need a skate board wheel and truck.. just weld it in place.. I got u guys!! Live the work as well.. p.s. belt driven cvt's have equal pressure on all points. It will not matter whether u put it ontop or on bottom.. and u won't be able to squeeze the belt inward either. U will have to carry the belt outward creating 3 points instead of just two.
The bottom 'tube' moving with the tensioner sprocket is a great plan.Allot safer with the chain encased.PLEASE get rid of the methanol and jet in NOS instead.It ran so well on premium fuel that NOS will just give the bursts of extra to launch and finish the runs.
maybe look at getting a double sprocket and chain set up on the one side too going back to the drive axel redundancy and would handle the aceleration forces better before breaking
I would just cut out the top of your chain guard however far the chain needs to clear, including stretch. I like coming back to these extended projects.
the only thing you may have to do is get different a different spring and/or weights for the primary clutch since the engagement of polaris engines are a few thousand rpm higher.
Pretty cool idea that you guys did there on your clutch on and off but at least on the top side I would have bent pipe and put around and welded it instead of boxing it in there but it'll work
Charles sure glad you joined the boys, because the ole " it'll be fine ", sure was getting pretty scatchy more times than not before you joined the team.
I also think you hold back far more times than you want to, but it's understandable why you do, and I don't agree with your decision at lot of the time.
Hopefully it'll equal out so that all things are equal for every member of the entire team in a lot of ways.
Understandable that something's are proportioned somewhat imbalanced due to time severed, are seniority.
Yeah I understand that everyone probably reads comments, but that's fine.
Nothing said that shouldn't be, and I stand behind what I say as a long time viewer, and subscriber.
Long long time.
Have a Great Day gentlemen, may Tomorrow be Even Better, and thanks for all the movies over the years.
Give Belt Palace a shout, great guys and they may be able to help on the short belt!
2Stroke Stuffing is using a speedway carb which may be what you need to be able to run the fuel you want to run. Link to video is in my next post.
2STROKE STUFFING goes over the carb around 19 minutes. ruclips.net/video/hKaGf_9yMLU/видео.html
Maybe using 2 carbs in a row you will be able to hit the afr and get a few more HP on the dyno 😉
1 tick under 3 3/4 huh?!?!...lol....god i love that u guys dont act all professional...down ta earth dudes...been watchin for about 3 years now keep it up fellas
Cool!!! Finally got the driven pulley on correct!!!
With all that space. Yall need like a 4 by 4 Rolling work bench with a vice. Call it the save your knees project.
Might have been smart to wait for the belt before cutting the frame, hoping all the best and I can’t wait to see this thing move again!!
moving the engine forward some may work but you will have to move the porthole forward as well. not to hard, some cutting and welding is all.
Ike, this gear was for 120mph.
Charles, I think your butt dino needs calibrated. I concur. The only chance that rail will ever have a chance to go 120mph is with the right set up and in the salt flats where you have a lot of room to run it out.
Whoo! Glad to see more Rail content. Took my minibike to the 8th mile a few weeks ago, managed a best of 11.95 @ 59mph
Move the engine forward. Keep yer porthole where it's at for service/repairs, but moving the engine ahead is the least invasive change to suit yer needs.
Thats awesome! A JYD Tee with the Wildcat!
One tick under 3 and 3/4… glad I’m not the only one using the ticky system!
Nice...port hole, CNC cover, make it fit....best DVD:)
Issac during the Beard Club commercial 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You guys can buy an alignment tool for making sure that the primary an secondary clutch are properly spaced out
Hey guys, I'm loving the rail content, exactly what I've been waiting to see, this thing get some more power and go back to the drag strip! It was disappointing to see the problems with the belt at the end but that's what happens sometimes, right? Looks like you have a bunch more work to do on it but that's OK, more work = more content. LOL! Best of luck with it, I'll be watching for the next one. Take care and be safe, guys!
Was hoping you guys would have put a Harley divorced style trans in it. Get some clutch dump and sequential shift action. Also no lift shifts still build boost.
A porthole cover vs the bar is a stronger way to go. Good luck!
Your 1 1/4” axle would be fine. We use them on 90-100 hp dirt oval karts all the time.
Being a snowmobile guru, I’m guessing even with the turbo, that motor won’t have enough power to pull the amount of weight in the primary and the stock spring is going to be too stiff. Second, if the secondary clutch helix ramp is to aggressive or steep of an angle and it doesn’t have the correct spring for the horsepower it won’t shift correctly. Lots of power to be gained or lost through the clutching.
Why not raise the driven pulley? You can increase the gap without having to cut into the firewall. You'll have to move the chain guide and everything too but it seems like that needs heavy modifications anyways so...
Maybe good time to think of building a new chassis slightly wider and Inprove on your set up.Look at some old drag chassis and build a nostalgic design maybe for turbo street bike motor.
See if you can get a wider belt which is shorter and reduce the width to suite. Wouldn't that be an easier job than cutting steel.?
You can now add a scatter shield with that frame mod. No mo oil baths!
You need to check on a Can-Am belt. When I get up tomorrow I can give you how long the belt is an how wide it is. My Can-Am has 200 hp.. most all side by sides use cvt clutch and an the same
belt.
Funny, seeing the beard club commercial made me wanna shave it. So I shaved like 3 months of beard completely clean. I feel a lot more confident now.
Good job goin with Polaris primary and textron (attic cat) secondary 👎
Just a thought: a bottom belt guard that can also be structurally sound
i wish i was there i would tell ya first put belt on and move engine forward to see if belt is tight then cut frame and welded
i dont see why someone would skipped this step
i love to see that 670cc drag race back on track