I will say I don't agree that Cal's decision to destroy the Holocron was random, there was a sequence where when he acquires it he's given a vision by the force that warns him of the consequences that will happen if he does use it, and I believe he uses that knowledge to make the decision. more of the thought process of "they'll be safer hidden than they ever would be with us"
This. I wonder why he thought it was random lol the story is very straight forward and simple to follow, not as simple as TFU (both games) but it’s definitely not complicated.
And don't forget that it doesn't happen all of a sudden either. Merrin is the first one to bring this up to him based on her own experience, which starts Cal down the path that maybe rebuilding the order isn't the best for those kids.
Yeah it's weird some people just don't get it. I mean it is kind of spelled out in visions, but also Cals whole journey can be seen as a reason to let the force sensitive kids choose their own fate, with all the danger he faced in such a short time span.
I never thought to compare these games, but it totally makes sense, they both are post Order 66 rots stories etc. yeah starkiller feels like a dark mirror version of Cal. Always great to see another Star Wars video Flandrew, thanks!
Uh, not to be that guy, but it kind of feels like Ezra would be the Light Mirror of Galen, not Cal. Cal is one of the three characters who had the essence of Kyle Katarn given to him, specifically the "Becoming a Jedi" part, or, more accurately, re-becoming a Jedi. He's literally gets a pistol in the Surviror (according to the promotion material) just to cement this in.
One major thing I really like about The Force Unleashed, even the sequel, is that it made you feel powerful as a Force User. Just the power of the lightsaber slicing through waves of enemies or force pushing your enemies was so satisfying, while still providing a level of challenge.
Where as in Fallen Order you’re just a kid with a giant glow stick. And both games are rated T, yet one actually has violence while the other is clearly made for 10 year olds
@@garrett1123 it doesn’t change anything other than your character dying faster. You don’t unlock any limb chopping or decaps. Your powers by comparison feel even weaker. Im not understanding your point
Man I just wish they would make more games in a different time period. Having all of these games take place during the OT/PT/ST really limits where the story can go/what villains you can have.
there is games like jedi knight: jedi academy, jedi knight: jedi outcast, and others, and I didn't even mention series of knight's of the old republic games, that takes places in 4k years BBY
@@soulstealer567 Its a simple mmo and its so story focused you can literally press one button to attack and have no problem at all. Also the option to do so. If you’re too lazy then no extra Old Republic content for you but don’t complain just because you don’t want to play an mmo
The only thing I really miss from The Force Unleashed is the ability to take the enemies with the force, and move them for the screen with absolute liberty. That's a great feel of be someone with jedi powers
I feel like that's what any Force User fighting anyone who isn't also a Force User should be like. Just their telekinesis alone should make any "fight" between a Force User and a Non Force User a total joke. The only reason it isn't is in order to keep the Non Force Users relevant to the franchise.
Force Unleashed was clearly made by people who loved star wars (also had Lucas breathing down their necks lol) and knew how powerful Jedi were. Fallen Order was made by people who knew absolutely nothing about Star Wars and instead wanted to make a game pandering to little kids and “Disney adults”
Both games are great in their own ways. I have so many fond memories of playing the different ports of The Force Unleashed along with reading its novelization. And even though I love Fallen Order, it was definitely a little short. I think 2-4 more levels would’ve made the game a masterpiece but it’s still a game I can pick up and play again and again the same amount as Force Unleashed.
I'm grateful for both of these games and when they came out. I don't think I would have had the patience for Fallen Order as a kid and loved The Force Unleashed. I find The Force Unleashed a bit overbearing now and really appreciate the more subtle and skill based approach of Fallen Order as an adult. Both games are great in their own right.
Interesting, i was sitting about 2 minutes ago thinking, how great was Harry Potter series videos, and i want to watch it again, and pops up new video 😂
@@Revan-eb1wbYou really think that all the Things Cal do in Jedi Survivor is Padawan level? Cal is a Jedi Knight and even maybe a low class Jedi Master, he isn’t at the same level as Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Yoda or even Plo Koon, but he is pretty strong.
Kinda crazy how similar these games are but also completely different 😂Let's hope Jedi Survivor doesn't take too many notes from Force Unleashed 2. Also, Starkiller has nothing on Cal's collection of ponchos.
I'm more of a Force Unleashed guy, but I did enjoy Fallen Order too, in spite of it being set in the Disney canon. On their portrayal of Vader - I think Force Unleashed gets slightly undercredited. Now don't get me wrong, Fallen Order absolutely nails what an encounter between Vader and a lowly Padawan should look like, TFU does do stuff with Vader's characterization. The very concept of Vader essentially adopting a child as his son in order to defeat the Emperor does give you an idea of how much he yearns for the life he could have had, and his betrayal of Starkiller is... I always interpreted it as Vader basically chickening out. That the Emperor somehow figured his plan out and Vader was afraid to make that final move and actually go through with it. It does work in the context of Vader and Palpatine's toxic relationship and Vader being dependent on Palps while also hating his guts. As well as his own, which the game does make a nod to, with PROXY serving as his holo body and then remarking "I hate being him" and Starkiller - who was raised by Vader and thus is bound to know him pretty well, replies "I think he does too". This mixture of complicated self-destructive emotions that Vader had to live with for almost two decades is exactly why he is my favorite Star Wars character and is one of my favorite characters of all time.
We also have to remember that The Force Unleashed is an unfinished trilogy. The plan was for the third game to ultimately be an exercise in Vader using the clone (if that didn’t wind up being retconned) of Galen Marek to achieve his own ends and get all the way back into the Emperor’s good graces while ending with a battle that *properly* framed his abilities with the Force against Starkiller’s. Instead of a more or less matched battle between (rough) equals, it is Vader unleashing the Force on you for a change. Every stage in the battle is the player’s every effort being set against increasingly terrifying displays of Vader’s prowess with a lightsaber and his Force abilities as such that you realize that Vader has been toying with Marek/Starkiller for the entire trilogy up to this moment and is FINALLY ready to kill him, his purpose in Vader’s design fulfilled in its entirety. You did not actually beat him before. Only now do you realize you never could. It pains me that we never got that and I wish fans could organize enough to convey to Disney and Lucasfilm that making a product that’s set in the old canon’s EU would sell well enough to justify the expense of its development.
@@LtDavidB312I didn't know there was supposed to be a third game... but were the story-plans always meant to make this a trilogy, was that planned from the start?
@@goranisacson2502 I don’t recall if it was a from-the-very-beginning plan (I mean, the first game felt like at least two games smashed together and abbreviated into one), but it definitely became a planned trilogy once the sequel was greenlit.
something that lives in my head is the thought that *(IMO)* the only real difference between anakin and luke is the fact that luke had at least one person (old obi wan) who sorta knew how to be supportive after he lost his aunt/uncle, whereas anakin had qui-gon and young obi wan who I'd both describe as "emotionally constipated" at best, and then palpatine... so the whole toxic relationship, self-loathing, resentment, etc makes a lot of sense for Vader.
"Your feelings for her arent real' "THEY ARE REAL TO ME" is one of the hardest lines in star wars history. I dont care what anyone says watching vader get electrocuted with kaminos lightning is among the top 10 goosebump moments in the franchise
Both portray the same Vader it is just that one portrays a Vader fighting someone who knows nothing about him or his techniques where the other shows Vader being outclassed by his student who has thus become the master. If anything I’d say Prologue Force Unleashed Vader is the best representation of Vader we’ve ever gotten. Also given that Force Unleashed had a whole story and dlc line based around the none canon ending to the game was pretty sick and made that ending feel worth it.
Sam Witwer has said in live streaming that the story for the 3rd game would have made it clear that Vader was more powerful and everything that happened in the first 2 games was just part of his plan. He described a scene where Starkiller and Vader argued like Starkiller: I beat you. Vader: Because I let you. Starkiller: I cut your hand! Vader: These? these are not my hands, I don't have hands.
To be honest, Palpatine first played around with Starkiller to try and turn him to the Dark Side. Also to note, if you chose the Dark Side option, Starkiller tries to kill Palpatina and Palpatine just beats him with ease.
I love The Force Unleashed's narrative is of how the Empire created their own demise. Its plot is more so an integral bridge between the first two trilogies of the Skywalker saga then. I love how the game handles the force like a video game would be expected to. It works because everyone else in the game is unleashed with the force, but it would be too over the top for a movie/show experience. Overall it is a good piece of nostalgia before Disney's take on Star Wars. The lightsaber combat isn't as strong especially when it's treated like a police baton and most force powers aren't utilized within the environment in terms of exploration and more so combat. Overall it's a fun sandbox to play in again and again. Fallen Order is a breath of fresh air with Disney's take on Star Wars because it's not integral to the Skywalker saga, but is told within the dark times with the same level of seriousness as Andor. I love how it's a personal story about how characters in the Star Wars universe work together and bond by their traumas. By far it has the best lightsaber combat in my opinion and I love how the Force is utilized more for the environment in exploration rather than just a means to see what I can destroy. The Force Unleashed is absolutely fun in terms of combat with the force, but Fallen Order wins because it is embedded in the narrative, environment and combat much more fluidly. The lightsaber combat in The Force Unleashed is basic and simplified, while you have to think tactively more in Fallen Order and it's much more rewarding when you understand it. While Galen Marek has my favorite redemption arc for a character in the Star Wars universe, Cal Kestis is much more relatable. Galen is much more interesting in the novelization based on the game, however because he is much more fleshed out as you would expect from a book perspective. As for the crew I absolutely love Proxy much more than anyone else on Cal's team. He's like a twisted training simulator and record keeper droid that has wholesome character development. Juno Eclipse is much more interesting in The Force Unleashed novelization, but Merrin from the video game perspective is much more enjoyable instead of just being a deliberate love interest. Although Juno is a much more enjoyable pilot than Greez. Cere Junda is a much more enjoyable mentor than Rahm Kota and Darth Vader from the games alone. Darth Vader is only interesting because of the history of his character and not just from the base game alone in The Force Unleashed. However, Fallen Order has a much more enjoyable final boss than The Force Unleashed. Mainly because Fallen Order understands how to insert canon and The Force Unleashed (good ending) in the end is a typical self sacrifice approach without trying to explore the original trilogy in a way you'll never see in the films. (Hence why the PSP version explores a broken and entertaining historical missions option of exploring moments from the original and prequel trilogy of Star Wars.) I get my comment is a "too long and I didn't read" inevitability and will drift into comment section purgatory, but it's better to express my thoughts for the silent majority willing to read what I have to say.
@Slywerk First things first the final boss in The Force Unleashed is Emperor Palpatine. You fight Darth Vader before and you get to fight Vader again as an evil ending fight by creating an alternate reality with DLC. Second of all when I'm talking about the Fallen Order game being a breath of fresh air I'm talking about the narrative for Star Wars fans.
The Force Unleashed is more fun purely from a gameplay perspective, but I found the narrative in Fallen Order to be so engrossing, that it made up for some of the more tedious segments. It also nailed the environmental storytelling made popular by the Soulslike genre. You get to piece together other stories that didn't involve Cal, but that he sees the consequences of, and you get a sense of much larger things happening in the galaxy outside the main story. And I dunno, I actually really liked the ancient temples. I like the idea that there are/were other cultures in the galaxy that saw and used the Force very differently than the Jedi and the Sith. It leans more into the fantasy side of Star Wars, and less into the sci-fi side, and I dig that.
So many newer Star Wars stuff are taken directly or inspired by Force Unleashed. Look at the way Maul was reintroduced in Rebels by Dave Filoni. Crazy force user living on a junk planet and moving around with spider legs. That's the same as Kaz Paratus in Force Unleashed. More recently we saw Obiwan inside the Inquisitor fortress rescue Leia in a big dark room where he would turn his lightsaber off to hide in darkness. That is straight from the Force Unleashed 2 trailer.
@@Quirderph 2005 dark horse comic Old Wounds had a Maul with longer horns and robot legs but that seems to be the inspiration for what Maul look like after he goes from spider legs to 2 legs. The spider legs and crazy state he was found in on the junk planets seems to be more Kardan Paratus. There is many more stuff inspired from Force Unleashed too. Kanan Jarus going blind from a lightsaber wound is just like Kota.
Force unleashed 1 was peak. As a kid I hated how simple the saber combat was. As an adult I appreciate how this game is a force power playground with an actually amazing story.
Unleashed allowed your inner Jedi fantasies to come to life. The lightsaber combos and force lightning was just unreal, he really showed so much power it felt like you were on GOD mode the entire game. Very fun, very fast pace. Fallen Order has so much more story behind it, puzzles, and realism. I mean you go to a planet, you land, u discover everything you need to, you have to make your way back to the ship often through puzzles and enemies, get on the ship, actually go to the nav computer, choose your next destination, actually go to the cockpit, and witness the ship lifting off the surface of the planet you just explored, watching it leave the atmosphere, go into hyperspace, sit down for the landing, watch it enter the atmosphere of another planet, and land. Then physically go and walk off the ship, and start your next planet journey, it's truly amazing what they did, they brought the star wars universe to life in a way that's never been done before. Two completely different takes on video games, but both amazing in their own right, Truly.
Cal destroying the Holocron wasn't random, it was half the story of the game. Between his vision from the Force, his Master and what Merrin said, he was conflicted the entire time on what to do with the Holocron, finally deciding to trust in the force and let the fate of those children be.
Flandrew my boy it's always a treat to see another video of yours! Here I am nursing my newborn (with a bottle, I am a Thomas after all) and your videos never cease to entertain me!
The inquisitors actually were a thing in the EU continuity as well. They were more of a “powerful evil wizard with their own military and political ambitions” type of thing, unlike the new canon inquisitors who are assassin agents hunting down the remaining Jedi across the galaxy. Starkiller was Vader’s secret apprentice, so he didn’t belong to an imperial inquisition officially, but at the same time there were others who did
wow, this was a GREAT comparison! The way Galen and Cal are opposite to each other in so many ways was beautifully described here. The one thing missing is the mention of which version of TFU is being compared: I know this one is supposed to be the official one, but I played the PS2 version first, so I have kind memories of it.
6:42, Most Jedi Padawans go through Trials and puzzles to create their first lightsaber and to rank up to the rank of Jedi Knight. Which is what Cal is doing during Fallen Order growing from a Force Crippled Padawan to a Fully Blown and Well Put Together Jedi Knight.
I loved Force Unleashed as a kid, it felt great to be a powerful force wielded but after finishing Fallen order I felt so sad the journey was over and so compelled to replay it. It felt like a true successor or other side of the coin from what was happening in unleashed, and in the end I think Fallen order ended up being my preferred pick of the two. Both are amazing and I can’t wait for Survivor to come out this month.
I would say rather than "their destiny should be trusted to the force," the actual reason Cal destroyed the holochron is because it's better that no one has their hands on it, than one party or the other. The reason the Force sensitive children shouldn't be found isn't because they're kids and shouldn't be on the run from the empire isnt the reason, it's because it's more likely that the children be eventually captured and turned into inquisitors. I feel like they didnt elaborate on this in the ending scene of the game but it's alright because it's heavily implied earlier on. Also if you watch all the interactions between the crew while just sitting on the landing pads in the planets, (most people skip them) you'll see that they discuss this a lot and merrin convinces cal that the children should just be left alone. And that first reason (about leaving the children alone so they dont have to be on the run from the empire) doesnt make any sense because cal and the crew are on the run from the empire too, and when the next generation of jedi (luke skywalker) begins his training, he's also on the run from the empire and his life is changed the same way they describe the lives of the children on the holochron.
I would love to see a port of Force Unleashed to update the graphics to modern standards. It's still my favorite SW game, though I did enjoy Fallen Order as well.
Considering Respawn is known for making multiplayer games (and specifically first person shooters), I can see their justification for adding in so many varied elements to Fallen Order. They'd never made a story driven action game in the way EA had requested, so they essentially HAD to look at industry trends and mash them together to get an at least passable result with a project they had never really worked on before.
I like to think that Cal's fight with Vader shows us how the rest of the galaxy perceives him, this monster who is completely unstoppable and will hunt you down without difficulty or remorse. Meanwhile Starkillers fight with Vader is supposed to hold a mirror to Vader with both Anakin and Starkiller being very similar in several ways such as: -both are incredibly powerful with their connection to the force even at a young age -both are trained by a jedi who in someway fails them (Obi-wan fails Anakin by being too stubborn to admit that Anakin should be trained by an actual jedi master and not just a knight while Kota fails Starkiller by being an alchoholic and a massive pessimist) -both have a woman that they fall in love with and for the sake of that woman's protection decide to join the other side of the war -both are fatally wounded by the Emperor in order to save people they love -if you choose dark side for Starkiller both are almost killed and then resurrected as a mechanical monster with breathing problems made to serve the Emperor -both are betrayed because of their own actions (Starkiller is betrayed when Vader, who Starkiller thought had trust in him, attacks and captures the rebels, while Anakin feels betrayed by Obi-wan in the iconic scene your are all thinking of. -both defeat their former master who if they decide to kill will lead to their failure -and both have a quirky robot companion that they end up abandoning (R2-D2 gets left on Mustafar while Proxy ends up dying but we learn in the DLC that he could have been salvaged and survived)
What I didn't like about The Fallen Order was those bottomless platforms, It reminded me of the Super Mario games, the only thing Cal needed was to tell "yoohoo" "ah ha!"
I've never actually finished Force Unleashed. Something about it just kinda never hooked me? I should restart the game and give it another go. I love Fallen Order and I cannot wait for Jedi Survivor next month.
Huh, these comparisons aren't exactly groundbreaking thought-work in a vacuum, but I hadn't considered how both of them being shaped by gameplay trends ultimately turn them into two very different stories, and how well they both seem to be informed by gameplay- Starkiller as a destructive hack and slash X-TREEEME force, Cal as a slower, less capable and more somber person. One being the sort of engineered prodigy, one more or less just being "A Guy" albeit one that's force-sensitive, just trying to make it through the day. Galen the star athlete of high school, Cal as just an average student, if that makes sense? I'd honestly like to see a cross-over of sorrs between them now with this dynamic in mind, but alas we do not live in a world that allows for that... least we resort to fan-fic, that is.
Very well put, love the analogy. I like it cause its like small scale vs large scale. Starkiller has superman level power. Cal has spiderman level power. Cal is more relatable in a way and has different struggles, starkiller literally fights planets full of enemies and takes on the entire empire rather than just surviving.
I always go back to play force unleashed and enjoy it every time, where as fallen order I've played once and haven't had any feeling to go back to it. It he hack and slash game play I feel is replayable where the puzzle solving and world exploring is kinda just a one and done no reason to go back to it
I like That Star Wars the force unleashed had way more interactive environments and you could just pick stuff up and throw it and break stuff and pick anyone up and toss them off into space and stuff. I wish you could do that in the newer game.
I personally prefer force unleashed. One reason is nostalgia as i remember playing it in 2015 over and over again and the other reason is the story. I love the characters introduced by the force unleashed, especially Kota, kazdan paratus, starkiller and proxy. I also prefer the pick up and play style of it. With fallen order, levels and environments are so large you have to carve out time whereas with force unleashed, if i want to kill 20 minutes then i can replay a dlc or a level without having to restart the game tp replay specific moments. Just mpo
I was also kind of meh on the ending of Fallen order, with Cal destroying the holocron, it kinda makes the journey feel a little unresolved. However the holocron needs to be destroyed to maintain canon, and i think it would have been better to destroy it during the fight between Cal, Cere and Vader in the tunnel: *this occurs just after vader stabs Cal and knocks Cere back* Cal is on the ground recovering, Vader pulls the holocron, Cere pulls it back resulting in a tug of war, Cere is about to lose her grip and Cal slashes it out of desperation, Cere taunts Vader for failing to get the list of children, then the scene plays out as normal, "such hatred" etc. At least then they are forced to destroy it, giving up on good it could have done to prevent the inevetible bad that it will be used for, in the regular ending they could have just hidden it again, the empire never would have found it without them in the first place.
I completely agree, it was meh and destroying the cron in battle would have been spontanious and a new sign of rebellion against vader to his face. Once they got away and the focus was on the cron i already knew he was going to destroy it. It made the whole thing anticlimactic. Overall fantastic game though.
Cal literally gets a vision of him turning to Dark Side/warning him before he acquires the Holocron and canon are not, cal has no power to fight against forces like Vader. So definitely not a meh ending and it makes more sense than usual tug of war action trope where no one gets the treasure.
It was necessary, though. There is no point in trying to gather the force sensitive children who may be with or against the idea on another Jedi order. Cal saw the force visions and what will happen if he does so . He even becomes an inquisitor. He made the right decision of letting the children choose their own paths through the force itself.
Both are fantastic games what amazed me in Fallen order is that Cal set out on mission's with out having basic force skills that many padwans have before going in the field skills like Force push,pull levitate double jump and yet he survived a great deal of predetor and Imperial encounters before he accuired those important skills with Galen dude was already skills and powerfull and ready to rock.
the force unleashed had such a fresh, creative story. Playing as the secret apprentice of Darth Vader ordered to hunt down the remaining jedi masters but slowly turning to the light side was something we hadn't seen before
I'm not sure how to feel about the takes on Darth Vader anymore. Before Disney rebooted the canon, I kind of hated how everything from the prequels to the Expanded Universe made Vader seem pretty weak. It felt like every time some new Star Wars thing came out someone was kicking the crap out of Vader. I really didn't like that Starkiller schooled Vader and the Emporer so thoroughly. Disney's approach of making Vader scary felt like a breath of fresh air. Rogue One, Fallen Order, Obi-Wan all made Vader intimidating. But now it feels like we are in a legasequel era where every piece of media (even outside Star Wars) exists to elevate the importance of what came before it rather than standing on its own. Either way, I spend too much time thinking about Star Wars :P
I love it when Vader is depicted as an unstoppable force, slowly advancing, and cutting off all hope of escape. He is a monster and you are his prey. He isn't in a hurry. He'll get you at his own pace, no matter what you do or how you run. I wasn't a big fan of the beating he got in the Force Unleashed, regardless of how incredibly good it felt in the moment.
i mean, i liked the force unleashed because it showed how a true force user could be so beastly. THe ass wooping wasn't that much of a surprise either, always understood it as "so THAT's what the emperor means by "squandered potential" on vader", he's a shadow of his former self, a true monster, like star killer, or palpatine himself, still wrecks him.
He gets his moment of monstrosity in the tutorial, when he basically just wades through the hordes of wookies and beats the breaks off a runaway Jedi. The fight in the Death Star works on several levels: For one, it's cathartic for Starkiller to get back at him after Vader backstabbed him twice (once literally). It also helps to illustrate the kind of character Starkiller is: No longer a Sith, not truly a Jedi, and all the more powerful for it, as he is able to harness his own emotions without losing himself. What's Vader's stakes in that fight? Self-preservation? Vader absolutely loathes himself. Hatred? Vader harbours no hatred towards Starkiller, he's been a useful tool and it's merely regrettable that he inevitably needs to be put down. Concern for the emperor? Vader is loyal, but he hates the emperor just as much as himself. Of course Vader doesn't wanna lose, but you need to consider that at this time in the lore, he's pretty much dead inside. He doesn't really see purpose again until he finds out about Luke. For Starkiller on the other hand, it's a different story. He absolutely despises Vader for using him and betraying him. He fears for the safety of his friends. He wants to prove to himself that he can break free from Vaders control and determine his own destiny. Also, it's uniquely a different situation. People don't just go after Vader. Every time Vader shows up as a terrifying force of destruction, he's on the offense, pursuing his prey. Someone attacking Vader because they know they have to get past him is a new situation.
@@cseijifja precisely! Lucas stated mace beat palps fair and square in their duel and though mace tapped into dark side energy he was far from a sith. Galen was purely an assassin and having had all that time to steep himself in the dark before learning the light, then combining it all? Galen locked lightsabers with his master many times during training, fighting to the point that he passed out from exhaustion. He had plenty time to study his master's methods and fighting style. He used Juyo, Shien and Soresu, the most aggressive style and the best defensive one, combined with lightning (vader kryptonite), and the fact that vader himself was much slower but still underestimated galen and it's not that unbelievable that he lost the encounter. The emperor saw the potential in him for a reason lol.
To me i love the force unleashed because it's a literal powertrip of an experience while fallen order is more of a grounded experience to me. I would have loved if FU had a combat arena like GOW ghost of sparta (where you can fight endless hords of enemies of your choice) and i would have loved if FO had more emphasis on force abilities. They are such different games but one thing about them in common is that they are a fun experience worth trying
@@thecaptain4630 ohhhhhh. Yeah i heard the (no offense) downgraded versions have WAY more content like the wii version, i would have loved to play the arena endlessly
I have to say I vastly prefer fallen order, I find the over-the-top portrail of the force unleashed just absurd, it just (and I hate saying this because I know it's vague but) it doesn't feel like star wars, star wars is not a super hero franchise, conflicts aren't resolved by characters chucking energy at eachother and screaming. I know some people love the power fantisy but I'd rather have difficult duels and grounded (in the star wars galexy) conflicts. I don't want to mop the floor with Vader because then Luke finally beating him means nothing, it's the same issue I have with the rise of Skywalker's ending, when the star destroyers started blowing up planets, I stopped caring about any of it. And when palpatine started wiping out an entire fleet with lightning, I honestly thought I was watching a fanfic written by me at six years old, we've seen what the limits of the force are, and it's those limits that make things interesting and create the stakes. When anything is possible, nothing means anything.
Jedi: Fallen Order is Tomb Raider with Lightsabers. That alone isn't an issue, but when Fallen Order started to send me back to the same Planets I spent hours climbing around, I had to turn it off.
Galen is my favorite Star Wars character. I wish they would put him in a series but considering how much Disney shits on Star Wars he might be better left alone.
Force Unleashed is nostalgic but I just feel like Fallen Order had more gravitas. The combat was more engaging and kept you on your toes. The story and Cal as a character just made more sense canonically. I just loved how they really emphasised the scale on everything too - the world design was phenomenal. On top of that, it's visuals were stunning and the cast did really well as their characters to the point you could actually see them making a TV series with them. Fallen Order was one of those rare occasions I actually completed a game, even going for all the collectables and I'm hoping the sequel delivers like Fallen Order did.
I really love the exploration heavy Jedi Fallen Order. I don't mind back tracking. When done right - like in Metroid, Resident Evil, Castlevania , ...- it adds, not detracts- from the gameplay.
I personally enjoy the backtracking, since I love the different environments and geography of the planets in Star Wars. Also, I feel like backtracking is a nice change of pace and allows you to have another opportunity to explore and look for secrets and whatnot as you go back to where you came from
The Force Unleashed kept me interested all the way through. In large sections of Fallen Order I was just bored with "oh good another puzzle" being said sarcastically quite often. It wasn't even as if the puzzles were badly designed in Fallen Order but they really stood out as they were also clearly designed for the purpose of slowing the player down rather than feeling like an integral part of the level.
Inquisitors, and their Legends predecessors, Acolytes have the distinction of being limited in how much they're allowed to learn to prevent them from becoming a danger to the Rule of Two. In the original Clone Wars, Count Dooku is forced to hunt down Asajj Ventress when Darth Sidious notices her becoming too powerful. Starkiller however, is a secret apprentice, trained with the express intent of betraying and overthrowing Sidious. Secret apprentices are a classic rite of passage for Legends Sith, who as Shaak Ti is quick to point out, have a long and storied history of betrayal
I think Force Unleashed might have an edge, but Fallen Order set up for a sequel a lot better. Force Unleashed 2 did about as well as it could, but Jedi Survivor has so much it can do just with the characters the first game introduced, not to mention the stuff teased by the trailer. If executed well, it could really expand on the areas the first game was lacking in.
When I think of it in a *'One Canon'* sense, I believe that, at some point, Galen would be tasked by Vader to try and hunt down Cal, Merrin, and any other Force-users that could be a problem for the Empire....just like how Galen was sent to hunt down and kill Rahm Kota, Kazdan Paratus, and Shaak Ti.
When Fallen Order first came out, I decided to replay Force Unleashed first because all of these parallels did occur to me. I came to a lot of the same conclusions you did; they're both products of their time. I think TFU had a bit better overall story (especially in fitting with the canon of the time) with a grander scope, but JFO had a bit better characters (such to the point that I was deeply disappointed that the NPCs didn't get a bigger role, something confirmed to be remedied in the sequel). The one weakness that both games have is a lack of player choices, so the story feels a little bit on rails. TFU does at least have the alternate dark side ending, but JFO gets nothing. I hope Jedi Survivor ends up having ways the player can influence the story as opposed to just going along with it. I mostly prefer the gameplay of JFO; the movement is better (especially given TFU's frustrating issues in regards to dash-jumping), and the combat is INFINITELY more satisfying to me; TFU basically just comes down to button mashing your way through entire armies, but in JFO, fights feel like actual fights with real stakes and wins feel well earned. The one edge I'll give TFU in terms gameplay is that its intuitive system of moving objects around with the Force was sorely missed when dealing with some of the more frustrating puzzles requiring the same mechanic in JFO. I think the locations in both games are really well done and have a fair bit of aesthetic variety, although JFO's are prettier overall (that said, it's mostly due to graphical advancements over the decade between the two). The backtracking in JFO can be a bit irritating, especially if you're lost, but sadly this is a inevitable side-effect of all Metroidvania-style games. That said, while there were some unlockable shortcuts in the game, it definitely could have had more, particularly after key story moments. The devs said that any sort of quick travel would defeat the spirit of the game, but I think that having just a few main "bases" you could QT to (even using an in-universe thing like "oh here's a speeder" would make the game paced a bit better. Overall, which game is "better" really does boil down to personal taste. For me personally, TFU is pretty nostalgic (though not to the degree of Jedi Knight or KotOR), and elements of it do hold up. But JFO is a more modern game with a lot of innovations; as opposed to sticking to a single genre, it combines elements of many, and does a very good job at it. Between the variety of the game and the overall much better gameplay, personally I find JFO more fun to play. But TFU will always have a special place in my heart as one of the biggest multimedia events in Star Wars history. I'm really excited to play Jedi Survivor though!
I honestly would so love force unleashed come back maybe be remastered or even rebooted to better fit with cannon and get that third game. I do believe a lot of elements from force unleashed could still be done in cannon if worked the right way. And it would make for an excellent duality alongside the jedi Fallen order games. It feels like there's definitely some interest in it from the fanbase as well as disney given to the recent subtle nods to the force unleashed with starkillers sith armor in Andor as an Easter egg. And Rahm Kota being canonized in Obi Wan as a surviving Jedi. There's just been a lot more recent attention to it all.
Kashyyyk was the worst. I missed a chest at the top of the tree. I wasted more than an hour trying to get back up and then having to climb back down and return to my ship. They put the bird creature about 1/3 of the way up the tree so you think you can fast travel to the top but nope... it takes you BACK to the bottom. I was so pissed.
@@chamoo232 I played this game like 4 years ago , then I play it at last week again, but I'm still remind me that are something there at in the trees! Maybe I'm just a good player to this game 😆
My ideal Star Wars game is KOTOR 1&2' story with the combat dynamics of Jedi Academy, the maps and graphics of Fallen Order/Survivor, and FU's bombastic disposition.
I would've preferred they make the puzzles more intellectual. Instead of just moving a ball, have them answer a question based on Jedi or Sith lore, or have some Towers of Hanoi stuff going on. That's how KOTOR made puzzles interesting. Also, Cal destroying the holocron with the list of Force-sensitive kids made the whole journey pointless, since he could've at least had Saw Gerrera relocate these kids somewhere safe, so they can wait out the Empire and Cal can rebuild the Order once the Empire falls. Which, given that the Empire is run by the Sith, it's not a matter of "will they fall?" but "when", since the Sith always turn on each other.
I feel like force unleashed had a good story that wasn't as good while fallen order focused on the story to carry the backtracking, and everything else is gold
I hope that in Star Wars Jedi survivor we will still be able to frequently climb and swing on ropes and climb up walls and wall run and parkour like you do in fallen order
How is it that you keep making videos that I thought would only exist in my imagination? It's like you're reading my mind lol. I love your content, and I look forward to your comparison of The Force Unleashed II and Jedi Survivor, should you decide to make one.
While I prefer TFU1 to Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor hasn't come out yet, I think it's safe to say that comparing TFU2 to it would be like beating up a baby. A handicapped baby. It's gonna be a miracle if TFU2 wins that one.
@@gnbman Well, I can't take that away from you, I guess. Me, I... it was painful. Because the core gameplay, the feel from the lightsabers, the controls, that was massively improved from TFU1. But the actual levels... had about one hour of content stretched across four hours.
You could play the first level of Force Unleashed with Vader as a Demo on PS3. One of my greatest gaming moments. I was so hyped for that game and it freaking delivered.
I like the force unleashed a little better because of many reasons 1. It shows a good variety of force abilities 2. I (selfishly) love the feeling of mowing down a ton of enemies 3. It feels like it could have fit in to the storyline (im not talking about disneys version of it)
Agreed 100% Fallen Order was on sale, so I bought it and was slightly disappointed how UNlike Force Unleashed it is. Different game play and not entirely comparable, but I do realize my disappointment is for selfish reasons. There is nothing wrong with Fallen Order. It is a solid game. But I also missed force blasting entire rooms of stormtroopers. Starkiller is so badazz, Cal is a pusci in comparison... but I get it. Starkiller is a sith and Force Unleashed is just that, the force unleashed. Cal is Jedi and has to regain and re-learn his abilities so his appeal is his growth. I missed the Force Unleashed so much, that I dusted off my ps3, found my copy of the game and am currently playing both games. Force Unleashed did not age well, admittedly. The controls are clunky, the hit box is weird and the light sabre combat is peripheral to the combat as a whole. However, the combo system is creative in that the lightning and force blast can be infused in the sabre. Fallen Order seems to focus more on the intensity of a light sabre fights and incorporates ideas that coincide with Jedi. Patience, strategy, hi-stakes, subtlety, using minimal aggression and finesse. I also HATE parrying mechanics in any game. But I understand why it's here and it does fit lightsabre combat perfectly and the times that I get it right and pull off an instant execution with Cal is sexy.
"You could almost think of Starkiller as a proto inquisitor." Actually no, Starkiller was around long after Inquisitors already existed as well. Jerec, the main villain of Dark Forces 2 was actually the original grand inquisitor. In old canon they just weren't as prominent but their purpose was more or less the same, they also didn't have uniforms nor shared that whole helicopter saber thingy. They were just dark jedi that served the emperor and hunted jedi while in disguise usually.
Plus calling Starkiller an inquisitor is insult to his character because he is Darth Vader secret apprentice to help him take down the emperor pretty much fulfilling the rule of two tradition of the Sith plus there is no doubt that Starkiller would destroy the whole inquisitors.
@@jaieregilmore971 yeah Star killer is more of an actual Sith IMO than an inquisitor one of the only Sith to be only trained in Sith ways since childhood besides Maul & Palps
Though a lot of what you say is spot on, I'd argue that your take on the Zeffo was really off the mark. It's your opinion, sure. For me the Zeffo meant the most to the story. And in terms of why the Zeffo stuff 'doesn't look Star Wars', well, there is a reason for that; they are _incredibly_ ancient. We're talking possibly over 25,000 years old. There is no confirmation for their age, though I'd argue there are solid arguments for why that could be possible. They are so far removed from most of galactic history in the Skywalker Saga, that of course they will be pretty different. And even if they were only half as old as I am speculating as a civilisation, that would still be more than enough to put them so far before most of what we could call, 'dynamic' galactic history, by which I mean, complex and fully-realised galactic events. On the basis of that logic, I think you're underestimating how extensive the amount of work that went into the Zeffo civilisation was. They are likely going to be one of the most important species in Star Wars in the long-run. That you didn't point out the three eras of Zeffo history being journeyed through by Cal Kestis, is odd. This was integral to Cal's recovery from his own trauma and presented parallels to the downfall of the Jedi Order. The era of Sage Eilram was relatively incredible in age, clearly much older than the other two, in a time when cooperation between the Zeffo and Wookiees of Kashyyyk was clearly happening (if you pay attention to the references to both in the discoveries you can make in the game, like the Wroshyr wood sarcophagus of Sage Eilram in his tomb on Zeffo, a sign of immense respect from the Wookiees, and the Shrine to the Zeffo, likely Sage Eilram, on Kashyyyk, found near the very top of the Origin Tree) I have a lot of theories on the reasons for this, and in general I am convinced it has something to do with the Rakatans (my primary theory on this is that the Rakatans were at war with the Zeffo, including over the freedom or enslavement of Kashyyyk, and that the Zeffo helped to liberate or block the insidious Rakatans from enslaving the Wookiees) Although relatively recently (within the last dozen years) subjected to being relegated to non-canon status, even more recently (within the last few years) the Rakatans have been confirmed as being definitely brought back into canon considering Lehon (otherwise known as Rakata Prime) was included in maps of the Sequel Trilogy aka relating to maps of the galaxy as the Resistance or New Republic knew them. The return of Rakatans to canon, would imply a great many things. No, it doesn't re-canonise the lore from the KOTOR series regarding the Rakata, though they would be absolutely compelling as a serious rival to the Zeffo. The Bad Batch series has shown a Zeffo assault walker come to life and it was considered to incredibly ancient. The idea with the Zeffo was that they were initially peace-loving, wise, technologically ingenious and friendly with other species. Then they started to lose their way. First, they became more extravagant, with exuberant architectural styles. This is exemplified by the Tomb of Miktrull. Now, this by itself does not a fallen species make, and it doesn't mean that they were wholly unforgivable or that they had fallen to vanity completely, and into the clutches of the dark side. But the point is, as repeatedly made throughout the levels on Zeffo (of course, especially when you have to go into that cavernous Tomb of Miktrull), that the Zeffo were not above using forced, slave labour of their own kind. There are skeletons of labourers throughout the Tomb of Miktrull, and signs that they were worked to death. I appreciated how, for a change, a game made the cerebral connection between the vast open spaces you are effortlessly traversing, to the actual moral cost of what it took to literally carve and dig that out of that mountain. They are the victims of a cruel regime, and Miktrull, though likely not a completely evil ruler (especially not compared to Sage Kujet, who I'll get to later on), was clearly an apple who fell very far from the wise Sage Eilram, and what he had been. You go from the impressive but relatively (compared to Miktrull's tomb, at any rate) modest tomb of the Sage Eilram, with it's references to their friends the Wookiees (see the inner chamber of the Tomb of Eilram, and the reliefs of the Origin Tree on Kashyyyk, and what the Zeffo called, the 'Life Wind' aka the Force) to the abject horror of Sage Kujet. Sage Miktrull is thematically held up as the middle phase - and whether it really went Eilram/Miktrull/Kujet as simplistically as that is unknown (and I'd hazard a guess, highly unlikely) You may debate the game play aspect of this and think it superfluous to Cal Kestis' journey, but it is building this massive subplot to an early civilisation in Star Wars. Perhaps one of the most ancient with major technology. There are likely older civilisations like the Columi and the Celestials, though they were from a _very_ different time in Star Wars galaxy history altogether. If you think the Zeffo are 'not very Star Wars' then wait until you see them. The point is, timespans of such immensity _would_ result in a variety of possibilities and paradigmatic phases in galactic history. If you are as familiar with and well-read enough in Star Wars at this point as a life-long Star Wars nerd like me, then you'll have a likely appreciation for the 'look' and 'shape' of the Star Wars galaxy in say, the Crusader Wars, the Great Sith War, the Jedi Civil War, the Old Republic, the High Republic and the Late Republic. There are distinctive visual themes with say, the Sith of Koribban (no, never calling it 'Morabund' seriously, I can't stand that; just leave it at Korriban ffs why they have to mess with lore like that in Star Wars The Clone Wars of all things, I can only put down to Filoni the Stable Genius being Filoni the Stable Genius; aka most overrated thing to ever happen to Star Wars, ever, bar none; gatekeeping nerd who landed on his feet, simple as that, being treated like the messiah for not getting things as messed up as Kathleen which is a pretty low bar let's be honest; not buying it that he is that great, I have critical thinking I can see what he is, not just a gullible nerd who laps it up because they were told to by the Mouse, not happening. Anyway, where was I...) There are distinctive eras, where if you have seen enough Star Wars and can coherently understand vast spans of time and understand the flow of things, that yes, there will be patterns and changes which stand out. The Zeffo _are_ genuinely discordant to most of that, but that is not unreasonable for being the case. Filoni's self-indulgence in Star Wars Rebels had the Force Gods known as the Ones (sigh, don't get me started) going full anime with high-minded attempts at bringing more religious symbolism into Star Wars; the Father, the Son, the Daughter...really Filoni? Really, you thought that was highfalutin genius writing? Subtle? No) And that stuff looks like something out of Final Fantasy or Soul Calibur, our some subpar anime about magicians or something. The Jedi are categorically made to look like scrubs in their own galaxy (and don't get me started on the f'ing BENDU) I get the idea of playing around with the different force sensitives that are not Jedi, but the whole point about the Jedi, was that they were supposed to be a big deal for a reason. They weren't meant to be reduced to being subverted and highly questionable space wizards with childishly basic viewpoints on the galaxy, which stand out as incredibly obviously flawed to anyone with double digits IQ. Clearly, there was stagnation in the Jedi Order which led them to that juncture of failure, a thousand years of complacency prior to Order 66. But it cannot be that simple. It just can't. This is why playing the tomb raider and archaeologist roving around the tombs of a civilisation as old or older than the majority of Republic history, is so compelling. It gives you the perspective of the Jedi, following the near eradication of his order (you know, his, 'Fallen Order', get it?) and seeing him learning about a civilisation completely removed from the Jedi (probably; no indication as yet the Jedi and Zeffo had anything to do with each other) which had the same problems the Jedi and Sith had for so very long. The Zeffo eerily echo the downfall of so many Jedi, into Dark Jedi or Sith. The horrors of Kujet on Dathomir, are so far removed from the benign nature of Eilram on Zeffo. Interestingly enough, the Tomb of Miktrull is close by the Tomb of Eilram. Now, don't get me wrong, I am well-aware that this is likely done primarily for the convenience of game design and their proximity is probably referencing how, for instance, ancient Egyptian tombs and ritual monuments were often built on top of, or adjacent to, older ones; either to ape on their reputation, symbolic importance, respect, sense of posterity and passive cultural resonance and reverence, or to even, inversely, self-aggrandise themselves to contrast themselves with their older, and smaller comparison. I can see both arguments. Like Pharaohs outdoing each other with bigger and grander burial chambers and pyramids. Monolithic, megalithic structures, getting better at being what they are, by craft and by ingenuity. Yet the exact reasons for why Miktrull had positioned his tomb so close to the Tomb of Eilram, are left unknown. [part 1/3; parts 2 and 3 in replies below]
[part 2/3] Again, _we can say_ that Miktrull was aping off the hugely respected Eilram, or deliberately placing his tomb on the other side of the mountainous ravine, to the Tomb of Eilram, out of universe, because the game level design prefers it that way. I know, I know. But _in universe_ there has to be an explanation. So make of that what you will. Suffice it to say that I'd prefer to see it as Miktrull cautiously trying to emulate the symbolic significance and cultural importance of Sage Eilram, while leaving his monuments in-tact and alone in his own time, and not just elbowing them out of the way and demolishing them. Imagine if Sage Kujet was setting up his tomb in the same area, and not on the planet Dathomir, where he did eventually die. That monster would probably deliberately demolish and defile the whole place, both Eilram's and Miktrull's, just to prove a point about his own power (like Ancient Egyptians whom chiselled off the faces of previous Pharaohs from statues, after periods of civil strife, when they grew to see them as heretics; literally trying to erase them from history, to be forgotten, and robbed of meaning to later generations, as a way of desecrating them) If you understand archaeology and the history of civilisations, and if you can discern and appreciate these things, the whole Zeffo situation is really well put together. I have to say, it feels like those ruins are really interesting and well-thought out. I like the statuary and the repetitive nature of how the Zeffo make statues. It may seem dull or convenient for level designers to just constantly weather statues and staircases etc but if that is what they liked to do in visualising themselves, then that is what it is about for them. Their planetary homeworld had high electro-magnetism and electromagnetically charged winds. They call the Force the Life Wind, partly because their own planet is a windswept place with dangerous, ionising storms. They seem to have evolved in mountain caverns and set themselves against the winds, shaped by it and flowing with it, but also empowered by it. They are clearly capable of having powerful force sensitives. Their sages were probably no less powerful than the strongest of the Jedi Masters and Sith Lords. Maybe they even surpassed them. We just do not know. Sage Kujet was incredibly evil and duplicitous, and it is established in the game that there was a massive scale of slaughter inflicted by the evil Zeffo on Dathomir, on 'rebels' within his own halls. There are emaciated husks of horrifically murdered Zeffo, apparently immolated or drained of life. Turned to statue like ashes. Whatever happened to them was no fire of nature. Some dark side ritual was very likely involved. In the nightmare ruins of the Tomb of Kujet, there are carved reliefs in solid, mafic, polished rock, of the enemies of Kujet being cast fatally into the chasms below, in vast numbers, in ritual executions. He was clearly a horror of his time, whenever that exactly was. How long after Sage Miktrull or Sage Eilram, that Sage Kujet was, is still unknown, but I'd speculate it could be a lot longer than it might initially appear. Kujet was more specifically known to be around near the end of the Zeffo civilisation. He was partly or largely responsible for it's collapse, with a gigantic civil war destroying the Zeffo on either most or all of their colony worlds. And I would speculate that the Zeffo under Eilram had long before, earned acclaim by fighting the greatly powerful and feared Rakatan Infinite Empire. Speculation, yes, though it would line up with the fate of Kashyyyk. If the Rakata are back in canon, then they would likely still have a hand in Kashyyyk, and the first liberation of Kashyyyk could have been the Zeffo saving them. I'd like to think so. The eras of Zeffo history are still not fully-understood, though it does follow that the oldest era in-game was Eilram's, then followed by Miktrull's era, then followed by the 'newest', Kujet's era. I would argue any eeriness regarding Eilram's tomb and the ancient catacombs near the bluffs forming the cliffsides of that mountain in the game, are more or less just to do with the fact all tombs will be a bit creepy, no matter how nice the person used to be inside it. Eilram was probably a pretty chill Zeffo hanging out with Wookiees, but layer over that the tragedy of the downfall of the Zeffo, a sinister Imperial occupation and the general look of anywhere left silent for potentially tens of thousands of years, and yes, it's going to become a scary place. The Tomb Guardians are hardly generic. They are very specifically tailored to the look of the Zeffo, in terms of their cranial features. They look somewhat similar to the Knights of Zakul from the Old Republic game, and those fantastic cinematic trailers. However, I'd say the Zeffo were _far_ older than them. I would not be surprised if they were 25,000 years old at the time of their height, with their downfall coming more like 20,000-15,000 BBY. Which, would still put them before most of the important Republic history. The Republic would not get on with someone like Miktrull, enslaving thousands of his own people. Eilram was the benevolent leader, with an impressive but relatively modest tomb compared to the others. Miktrull was the extravagant show-off autocrat with oversized architecture and megalithic designs, and Kujet was the Zeffo equivalent to Emperor Palpatine. I found them fascinating. They'd clearly done their research on ancient civilisations and there were some places in the tombs - and even on colony outposts like on Bogano - where I'd just pause and appreciate the view for a good while. It really was well-made. We can compare some of the level design in especially the Tomb of Miktrull to Lara Croft Tomb Raider with the extraordinarily massive cavernous spaces and giant statues. But there is no reason why that couldn't have been their uniting cultural endeavour (whether voluntary, or enforced, through slavery of the work forces) When you've gone through the different tombs enough, you begin to get a real appreciation for the different mentality used. It might not be obvious but even without the pretty deliberate and sometimes on the nose temporal force echoes that Cal gets when he interacts with things, I picked up on it. I could tell before the game told me, which is in my view, good game design. More than that, good civilisation design in-universe. I could tell immediately how much bigger on the map, the Tomb of Miktrull was. Like it was a more serious expression of Zeffo technology, with sharper looking architecture and more lavish interiors. Even many thousands of years as a sorry and shattered ruin, have not diminished some of it's grandeur - and the Zeffo power source of those energy orbs are remarkable, still powering their lights, force fields and automata long after the fall of the Zeffo civilisation. Any civilisation whose mere shadow, towers greater than living civilisations, is a seriously impressive civilisation at least in a generalised way. Even if they became ostentatious and eventually evil (at least, in part, not including the rebels fighting Kujet), we must acknowledge they had achieved wonderful things (again, even they began to use them for dark deeds and vile reasons) My theory that the Zeffo once fought for the freedom of Kashyyyk, while speculative, would allow a greater basis for the Rakata to be brought in. The Rakatan Infinite Empire had 500 worlds and as many as 1 trillion slaves. 10 billion warriors. Untold numbers of slave soldiers as cannon-fodder. Millions of ancient Rakatan war droids. Their hyperdrive tech was drawn to highly biomatter prevalent, subsequently high-force signature planets. If Zeffo hyperdrives were anything like that, then they could converge, coming into conflict over systems which had huge signatures in the Force. The Rakata would enrage the Zeffo by belligerently murdering and enslaving everyone, which would be tragically ironic later on as the Zeffo degenerated into doing that themselves; I'd speculate, long, long after they'd maintained wisdom and being on the right side of history. Being chill with Wookiees is being on the right side of history, for sure. The Rakata were absolutely genocidal maniacs with a trillion slaves and although 500 planets might not seem to make sense for an 'Infinite Empire', I would disagree. Their 10 Billion warriors, averaged out over 500 planets, would result in 20 million warriors stationed on each planet. Now, if more important ones had twice as many as the average and more difficult to garrison or logistically challenging planets (or just less important colonies) had just a few hundred thousand warriors, you could still have larger garrisons elsewhere and large numbers serving in their naval forces. In the real-world of the 21st century planet Earth, with over 7 billion people on Earth, all armies combined come to about 29-30 million soldiers. It is highly plausible, therefore, that even 36,000-25,000 BBY, the Rakata could have about 20 million warriors per average, per planet.
[part 3/3] To stand up to a power as abhorrent and aggressive as the Rakata, the Zeffo would have to be very powerful indeed; and we know they were. There are no two ways about this, their technology is highly impressive. So if you have primitive Wookiees 25,000 BBY going about probably not having even invented the Bowcaster yet, and just using spears and shields, the Rakata would walk all over them without mercy. The Rakata enslaved entire species, and wiped out others. They were beyond disgusting and I like the idea of the earlier era Zeffo (when they were truly good), standing up to them and giving them a taste of their own medicine. I believe these things can become connected if they play their cards right. The Zeffo could become a thorn in the side of the Rakata, being that one obscure faction that just trounced them almost every time they met. It wouldn't just be the Wookiees. I also came up with a backstory to Yoda's species, being linked to encountering the Rakata with the Zeffo saving them, in the time of Sage Eilram. After, that is, a horrible conflict which turned them away from being too outgoing on the galactic stage, for the rest of time as we know it. The Zeffo are being hinted at more and more often, but with Filoni in the driving seat I think they'll just end up doing something 'Basic B' with it and ruin their story. We've seen what Filoni did regarding the 'Force Gods' of Mortis. And don't get me started on the dabbling with time travel and alternative timelines that Filoni flirted with in Rebels, or his totally-not-ego-driven, endless and unhealthy obsession with Ahsoka Tano. I mean yeah, she's alright, but the Filoni Empire wants you to accept her being shoehorned into everything now. I often wonder what TCW series could have been without her in it. It started to become almost as much about, if not more about, the drama around her, than the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin, which started to get tedious towards the end. Then in Rebels she turns into some monk like, Time Lord-like sage milling around with a Gandalf cosplay thing going on. Well, okay then Filoni. Whatever. [voice of Cornwallis from 2000's The Patriot, about overrated low testosterone nerd Dave Filoni] _Damn him, damn that man!_ P.S - Sure, you are right that the returns to Zeffo did jarringly change the flow of the story, though I genuinely appreciated them. Maybe that is because of my interests of all things ancient, though I think it was more about the fascination with the world-building effort they'd put into it, that impressed me. I could appreciate the work they'd put into designing what they were about, but I could also see the vast potential in the Zeffo civilisation. They could have a great role in keeping the Rakata at bay in their neck of the woods in the galaxy, before collapsing during their own civil war and descent into madness and tyranny. We know that the last of the Zeffo went into the Unknown Regions following the death of Kujet, and that he had been buried with ceremony. If he hadn't have been, he wouldn't have been entombed with the last astrium in his dead hands. This in itself implies that he'd died of old age, seeking immortality, and failed. Eventually withering away and dying, and his faction either falling apart post-mortem, or being helped along in being seen off by the remaining rebels. I would hazard a guess that the rebels were victorious, in a foreshadowing echo of the rebel victory over the Galactic Empire in the Skywalker Saga. The fact he died of natural causes could imply there was a bit of an impasse and that he either couldn't be killed by the rebels while in his lair on Dathomir, or that he was besieged there and died there (eventually) Or maybe they were at a stalemate, and his long life finally fizzled out, only for the final victories of the rebels being presumably so costly, that they had little left of what had once been their great civilisation. A combination of their shame and their self-loathing over what happened to them, would drive them into the Unknown Regions to reflect and 'find peace'. It is not known if they survived to the main timeline. The sequels had it that the First Order had spent decades conquering the Unknown Regions, and had fought wars with aliens species there. Maybe that includes the Zeffo. After all, the Zeffo were being studied by the Galactic Empire. Maybe they tried to find them. Emperor Palpatine had Zeffo relics taken directly to Coruscant. He knew they were powerful force sensitives. More likely, they died out long before the time of the Skywalker Saga. Nevertheless, it would be incredibly impressive if there was a fortified enclave of near monastic Zeffo, hiding out there somewhere in the Unknown Regions, after all this time; imagine their technology, with many thousands of years longer to develop it, in secret, away from the eyes of their foes. Curiously enough, long before the Unknown Regions in the way that was meant in the Sequel Trilogy era from 2015 onward, was where the Rakatan homeworld was found. Lehon/Rakata Prime was, about 24 years ago as of 2023, developed as this peripheral planet in the area of space then vaguely referred to as the Unknown Regions. The expression didn't quite mean the exact same as we think of it now, since Episode VII. A lot of different regions of the galaxy were still being developed, with various iterations of 'Wild Space' being mentioned. That was how much of the Unknown Regions in the 'top left' side of the galactic map, looking at it (wait for it)... from _a certain point of view_ (r-r-r-reference r-r-r-rewind lol) The Rakatans were established as lurking beyond the normally observed areas of the galaxy, and their civilisation was over 25,000 years old. During the events of the KOTOR games, they were still well over 20,000 years (more like 21,000 years) older than the likes of Bastila Shan, Revan and Malak. So it'd be very interesting if the Zeffo had run ins with the Rakata. The Rakata were absolutely merciless and reprehensible and if the Zeffo encountered them it would have been a war. There could have been no alternative. The Rakata do not negotiate they just attack and try and kill and subjugate. The old school Zeffo would have every reason to teach them a lesson. But it wouldn't be the Zeffo trying to destroy them completely, just fend them off planets they cared about, like Kashyyyk. And any attempt to punitively assault the Zeffo themselves would lead to a vast interstellar war in which I frankly see the Zeffo dominating the Rakata technologically. All they have as a key advantage is the Star Forge and that means nothing if they constantly keep getting their backsides handed to them. It'd just be draining to them at a time when they were basically fighting the entire rest of the known galaxy and proto-Republic rising up to destroy them (what did for the Rakata in older canon, was a plague which hit them very hard during their own civil strife and costly wars with their many, many justified enemies, and then basically degenerating into feuding factions to the point they only had Lehon/Rakata Prime left, and devolved into tribes that mainly fought to destroy each other) The Rakata were cannibalistic and ate their enemies, unfortunate slaves and each other (not like that, not with those teeth) They were monsters. They literally and figuratively bit the hand that fed them (murdering the benevolent Kwa species, whom found them and erroneously taught them about the Force and space-travel; not realising they were dealing with the least respectful and most horribly vicious traitors of their time. The Zeffo are better than the Rakata. Phactz. The idea of them fighting would make a lot of sense if that happened around 27,000-25,000 BBY. Maybe my speculative time placing for this and the heyday of Zeffo culture will eventually be proven wrong, but I don't care, it makes sense to me and I think that would be an interesting addition to Star Wars. If Star Wars is the 'lived in galaxy', then a mega-civilisation earlier on in it's history won't have the hallmarks of that lived in galaxy. That is the point.
Not nostalgia. I still play both. I can say that Starkiller has more character charisma and just better in general. What I like about cal, we need to work to get wbilities What I like about Starkiller: literally everything. How the force is portrayed and the feel of freedom
It'd certainly be an interesting comparison. Never played the Wii U version, but I have played the PC and DS versions. Hoo boy was the DS version a thing. If you thought the touch screen combat of the first game on DS was a bad choice, TFU2 made it much worse. Never made it beyond the first part of the return to Kamino.
I loved both for diffrent reasons and I feel like they could easily revisit force unleashed like God of war was revamped, I'd love to see a republic commando review or the of battlefronts! patiently waiting for the next video man
Great video Flandrew. I wasn't sure was Fallen Order was supposed to be compared to Force Unleashed (especially the good ole PSP version). It looks like it has a lot of modern gaming tropes unfortunately. I wonder if it's in any way replayable like Force Unleashed where choices can matter.
Plot wise? No, the story is what it is. Granted, even The Force Unleashed only really had alternate endings, which is less than they promised during development.
Also I do prefer Force Unleashed as it feels like a completed product at the end of the day. When I bought Fallen Order it felt like a unfinished idea of a game with to much going for it and a lot of bugs. The A.I for the Empire was pretty subpar and felt like a rail shooter the climbing would glitch out and made Kahyykk that should’ve been my favorite level the worst, and overall I just don’t enjoy the villains as much as I did in the Force Unleashed. The Inquisitors felt like pushovers with Vader being the only truly scary individual in the room. Trila was scary to as she atleast was a menace but she turned back to the light at the end and ended up not being what I was hoping for.
Unleashed was a power-scaling nightmare of a power fantasy. Fallen Order felt like it belonged in a world where Vader was the feared monster of the Jedi.
Personally I Like the Lightsaber Combat Far Better in the Jedi Knight Series with Kyle Katarn! I Only Wish They Continued with That and Built Upon it Over Time!
hair and water is always really tough to nail in video games & CGI movies. i remember at the moment seeing that Chewbacca hair for the 1st time thinking "wow this looks really good"... now I almost laugh at it 😂
If only Starkiller wasn't so overpowered and heavily disruptive towards both canon and legends, it would have been very cool to bring him back to intertwine his story with Cal's. I could be wrong having never played those games , but according to what I've seen here and there about the story of Force Unleashed, looks like his interactions with Vader in particular couldn't fit in canon storyline even if wanting to. Nonetheless I'd be more than happy being proved wrong if someone coming from a better knowledge of that arc could make sense of a rivalry between the two, providing an high stakes foe for Cal to face I know, I'm going way way too far 😂 It's this never ending wait for the game's fault! 😢
Starkiller is not overpowered. EVERYONE in Force unleashed is overpowered. It's force powers cranked to 11. Vader does crazy stuff in the intro level. Even Rahm Kota is more powerful than any Jedi or Sith we ever saw in the movies. That's the concept of the games. They are like telltales retelling by witness who exaggerate all the facts. People often say that Starkiller should not be able to beat Vader and Palpatine. Well he didn't. He died while they both walked off. Sam Witwer also said on stream that the 3rd game was going to show Vader's true power and that everything that happens in the 2 first games was part of his plan. Starkiller beat Vader because Vader let him.
Lol well my advice to you not playing TFU is no lol I do not recommend putting Star killer against Cal if he’s anything like the original he’s literally a kid who got kidnapped and trained by Vader his entire life 😅 I didn’t even find him overpowered I just thought hey this is what Vader would teach his student to be like
Star killer isn't OP, even if you ignore that it was to be revealed that vader let him win, starkiller has an extreme efficiency with force lightning, which is what gives him a chance vs vader, and in every instance where it's lore and not gameplay, in every version of the story, starkiller doesn't even hold a candle to palpatine
It’s honestly a crime against humanity that Galen was purged from the canon. And there has been no attempt to bring him back somehow. I don’t even care if he’s nerfed (as long as it’s not to the point where he’s on a inquisitor level). I just want him back.
He definitely has to be nerfed a ton, he was stronger than anybody else we saw in SW Canon. However he's a very interesting character and I hope it's reintegrated one day.
This just makes me want to see a Cal Vs Star Killer in Jedi 3. Obviously SK's origin would have to be different. But seeing Sam Witwer in a star wars game again would be so amazing
I don't think it's entirely fair to compare them as the gameplay of the two games as they're both striving for two different things. Fallen Order has a more grounded tactical based gameplay meant for thinking ahead and not rushing into things through maneuvers while Force Unleashed makes you feel like a powerful demigod who can destroy everything around you while giving pure power fantasy rush of destruction and chaos. They're both different on what they're trying to do and they're both excellent at it! It's not difficult to see the difference at all as they're striving for two different things. Like for example, Fallen order has movie-like cinematic moments that feels a Star Wars film similar to what Uncharted does at times, but that's defiantly a positive thing ENTIRELY so as those moments are ABSOLUTELY amazing and immersive to the experience. They're all great moments to witness and that's one of the things that makes the game absolutely amazing!
This comparison is exactly why I personally cannot take seriously people saying the new canon is ruining star wars. Vader IS Star Wars, he has been Star Wars since '77. And in the New Canon he is a horror movie villain that other horror movie villains tell themselves to watch out for. "I am surrounded by fear and dead men" is an iconic line for a reason, and only Vader could pull it off.
The one thing, the one definitive thing I like more about fallen order than the force unleashed is that in fallen order, you actually can slice and cut things and see them split into two with your saber. It’s one of the few games where you can actually do that and it feels like you’re holding a laser sword. You can impale them in the for unleashed, but you can’t cut them in half.
I think they both have highs and lows. The one huge problem that fallen order has is the extreme difficulty in navigating the levels. You can spend hours going in circles trying to get back to a chest or whatever. The map is crap.
I enjoy TFU a lot more personaly because of the story that kinda mattered to the universe back then. Where FO story leads nowhere. And then the gameplay is much more fun in TFU as well. Souls like games are not my jam at all. Cal is also way too weak for a "jedi" and he shouldn't struggle that much against stormtroopers. It feels so underwhelming. Regarding exploring these planets... Fans already know them like the back of their hands, I don't need to see more of them. I've been seeing them in games, books or comics for years... Let me have fun instead of trying to make me feel nostalgic or whatever.
Personally, I actually like the backtracking that takes place in Fallen Order. Usually, I like to play the story without exploring so much, so the backtracking gives me the opportunity to do that exploring that I missed out on and fully appreciate the beauty of the game.
Jedi fallen order is where you try and stop the empire Star Wars the force unleashed is where the empire tries to stop you
😢😢
lmaooo thats too spot on!
where you run from the empire !!
"It's like poetry, it rhymes."
Man couldn’t have said it any better! Super facts!
I will say I don't agree that Cal's decision to destroy the Holocron was random, there was a sequence where when he acquires it he's given a vision by the force that warns him of the consequences that will happen if he does use it, and I believe he uses that knowledge to make the decision. more of the thought process of "they'll be safer hidden than they ever would be with us"
Agree, I think it makes sence :)
This. I wonder why he thought it was random lol the story is very straight forward and simple to follow, not as simple as TFU (both games) but it’s definitely not complicated.
Not to mention if u look close 1 the dots was Lothal so 1 of those markers was Ezra Bridger
And don't forget that it doesn't happen all of a sudden either. Merrin is the first one to bring this up to him based on her own experience, which starts Cal down the path that maybe rebuilding the order isn't the best for those kids.
Yeah it's weird some people just don't get it. I mean it is kind of spelled out in visions, but also Cals whole journey can be seen as a reason to let the force sensitive kids choose their own fate, with all the danger he faced in such a short time span.
You can save wookies in Force unleashed. They're in cages throughout the level and when you free them they help you fight
Yeah that was a nice detail it felt good to free them from the empire
I tossed the Wookies around with the Force. The Wookie prisoners didn't survive
@@jedigamer9935me too
@@Elijahs_mustache don't forget the best part the JAR JAR in frozen carbonite in the admirals room
I always let them help me, then i electrcute them😂
I never thought to compare these games, but it totally makes sense, they both are post Order 66 rots stories etc. yeah starkiller feels like a dark mirror version of Cal. Always great to see another Star Wars video Flandrew, thanks!
Shouldnt cal feel like a light mirror of starkiller since he came first 🤔
@@myLocoson I mean yeah technically but Starkiller just better lol
Uh, not to be that guy, but it kind of feels like Ezra would be the Light Mirror of Galen, not Cal. Cal is one of the three characters who had the essence of Kyle Katarn given to him, specifically the "Becoming a Jedi" part, or, more accurately, re-becoming a Jedi. He's literally gets a pistol in the Surviror (according to the promotion material) just to cement this in.
@@Mexican20067if you like self inserts sure
Kazejay talking about kal
One major thing I really like about The Force Unleashed, even the sequel, is that it made you feel powerful as a Force User. Just the power of the lightsaber slicing through waves of enemies or force pushing your enemies was so satisfying, while still providing a level of challenge.
Same here
especially in the Wii and PSP versions being the standard edition
Where as in Fallen Order you’re just a kid with a giant glow stick. And both games are rated T, yet one actually has violence while the other is clearly made for 10 year olds
@@Lawrence_Talbot try it on a Jedi grandmaster then come back and talk about violence
@@garrett1123 it doesn’t change anything other than your character dying faster. You don’t unlock any limb chopping or decaps. Your powers by comparison feel even weaker. Im not understanding your point
Man I just wish they would make more games in a different time period. Having all of these games take place during the OT/PT/ST really limits where the story can go/what villains you can have.
there is games like jedi knight: jedi academy, jedi knight: jedi outcast, and others, and I didn't even mention series of knight's of the old republic games, that takes places in 4k years BBY
@@G1PNO yeah I played all of those and they’re great. Just wish we had more like that
@@Astaroth-1 Yeah I doubt you played Swtor and ALL of its expansion or you wouldn't be saying this
@@DatManJB shut it clown
@@soulstealer567 Its a simple mmo and its so story focused you can literally press one button to attack and have no problem at all. Also the option to do so. If you’re too lazy then no extra Old Republic content for you but don’t complain just because you don’t want to play an mmo
The only thing I really miss from The Force Unleashed is the ability to take the enemies with the force, and move them for the screen with absolute liberty. That's a great feel of be someone with jedi powers
Wish we got newer games like this with complete jedi power freedom
I wish there was a game with Jedi Academy lightsaber combat, KOTOR/SWTOR force abilities list, and TFU execution, with combining powers and etc.
I feel like that's what any Force User fighting anyone who isn't also a Force User should be like. Just their telekinesis alone should make any "fight" between a Force User and a Non Force User a total joke. The only reason it isn't is in order to keep the Non Force Users relevant to the franchise.
@@mrzirak792 Throw in an open world and we've got the perfect Star Wars game.
Force Unleashed was clearly made by people who loved star wars (also had Lucas breathing down their necks lol) and knew how powerful Jedi were. Fallen Order was made by people who knew absolutely nothing about Star Wars and instead wanted to make a game pandering to little kids and “Disney adults”
Both games are great in their own ways. I have so many fond memories of playing the different ports of The Force Unleashed along with reading its novelization. And even though I love Fallen Order, it was definitely a little short. I think 2-4 more levels would’ve made the game a masterpiece but it’s still a game I can pick up and play again and again the same amount as Force Unleashed.
I'm grateful for both of these games and when they came out. I don't think I would have had the patience for Fallen Order as a kid and loved The Force Unleashed. I find The Force Unleashed a bit overbearing now and really appreciate the more subtle and skill based approach of Fallen Order as an adult. Both games are great in their own right.
Interesting, i was sitting about 2 minutes ago thinking, how great was Harry Potter series videos, and i want to watch it again, and pops up new video 😂
cool, i was playing splinter cell when this came up. really weird
Lol imagine that. The HP series was great I agree same w the Lego Star Wars series
Hwats it called ?
Its cool to see how strong Cal gets by the end of Survivor. Actually feels like a Jedi Knight verging on the rank of Master.
He’s strong enough to be a master for sure. He’s around as strong as kit fisto by his feats
Verging on the rank of a master? Not even close. I would not even call him a jedi knight
@@Revan-eb1wbYou really think that all the Things Cal do in Jedi Survivor is Padawan level? Cal is a Jedi Knight and even maybe a low class Jedi Master, he isn’t at the same level as Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Yoda or even Plo Koon, but he is pretty strong.
@@Nik13209 i still dont think he is jedi knight just yet
@@Nik13209 bode is a jedi knight and almost beat cal und merron together. He only lost because of bad luck
Kinda crazy how similar these games are but also completely different 😂Let's hope Jedi Survivor doesn't take too many notes from Force Unleashed 2. Also, Starkiller has nothing on Cal's collection of ponchos.
Love your videos man, you're my favourite walking dead content creator.
Cal's ponchos are a joke.
It gives you a blaster! I think it's enough to say it's not taking too many notes form FU2😂
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNickedok bud.
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked They're fucking awesome I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm more of a Force Unleashed guy, but I did enjoy Fallen Order too, in spite of it being set in the Disney canon.
On their portrayal of Vader - I think Force Unleashed gets slightly undercredited. Now don't get me wrong, Fallen Order absolutely nails what an encounter between Vader and a lowly Padawan should look like, TFU does do stuff with Vader's characterization. The very concept of Vader essentially adopting a child as his son in order to defeat the Emperor does give you an idea of how much he yearns for the life he could have had, and his betrayal of Starkiller is... I always interpreted it as Vader basically chickening out. That the Emperor somehow figured his plan out and Vader was afraid to make that final move and actually go through with it. It does work in the context of Vader and Palpatine's toxic relationship and Vader being dependent on Palps while also hating his guts. As well as his own, which the game does make a nod to, with PROXY serving as his holo body and then remarking "I hate being him" and Starkiller - who was raised by Vader and thus is bound to know him pretty well, replies "I think he does too". This mixture of complicated self-destructive emotions that Vader had to live with for almost two decades is exactly why he is my favorite Star Wars character and is one of my favorite characters of all time.
We also have to remember that The Force Unleashed is an unfinished trilogy. The plan was for the third game to ultimately be an exercise in Vader using the clone (if that didn’t wind up being retconned) of Galen Marek to achieve his own ends and get all the way back into the Emperor’s good graces while ending with a battle that *properly* framed his abilities with the Force against Starkiller’s. Instead of a more or less matched battle between (rough) equals, it is Vader unleashing the Force on you for a change. Every stage in the battle is the player’s every effort being set against increasingly terrifying displays of Vader’s prowess with a lightsaber and his Force abilities as such that you realize that Vader has been toying with Marek/Starkiller for the entire trilogy up to this moment and is FINALLY ready to kill him, his purpose in Vader’s design fulfilled in its entirety. You did not actually beat him before. Only now do you realize you never could.
It pains me that we never got that and I wish fans could organize enough to convey to Disney and Lucasfilm that making a product that’s set in the old canon’s EU would sell well enough to justify the expense of its development.
@@LtDavidB312I didn't know there was supposed to be a third game... but were the story-plans always meant to make this a trilogy, was that planned from the start?
@@goranisacson2502 I don’t recall if it was a from-the-very-beginning plan (I mean, the first game felt like at least two games smashed together and abbreviated into one), but it definitely became a planned trilogy once the sequel was greenlit.
something that lives in my head is the thought that *(IMO)* the only real difference between anakin and luke is the fact that luke had at least one person (old obi wan) who sorta knew how to be supportive after he lost his aunt/uncle, whereas anakin had qui-gon and young obi wan who I'd both describe as "emotionally constipated" at best, and then palpatine...
so the whole toxic relationship, self-loathing, resentment, etc makes a lot of sense for Vader.
"Your feelings for her arent real' "THEY ARE REAL TO ME" is one of the hardest lines in star wars history. I dont care what anyone says watching vader get electrocuted with kaminos lightning is among the top 10 goosebump moments in the franchise
Both portray the same Vader it is just that one portrays a Vader fighting someone who knows nothing about him or his techniques where the other shows Vader being outclassed by his student who has thus become the master. If anything I’d say Prologue Force Unleashed Vader is the best representation of Vader we’ve ever gotten. Also given that Force Unleashed had a whole story and dlc line based around the none canon ending to the game was pretty sick and made that ending feel worth it.
Sam Witwer has said in live streaming that the story for the 3rd game would have made it clear that Vader was more powerful and everything that happened in the first 2 games was just part of his plan. He described a scene where Starkiller and Vader argued like
Starkiller: I beat you.
Vader: Because I let you.
Starkiller: I cut your hand!
Vader: These? these are not my hands, I don't have hands.
Fact people tends to forget Galen practically raise by Vader to help overthrown the emperor so of course he got to be powerful.
@@jaieregilmore971 Same people that believe Starkiller is a Garry Su
@@derkurier2710 he literally gets killed at the end of his game by the boss evil man lmao.
To be honest, Palpatine first played around with Starkiller to try and turn him to the Dark Side.
Also to note, if you chose the Dark Side option, Starkiller tries to kill Palpatina and Palpatine just beats him with ease.
I really wish the PS3 version of force unleashed had the levels from the ps2 version as well - The Jedi Temple and alternate cloud city were great
I love The Force Unleashed's narrative is of how the Empire created their own demise. Its plot is more so an integral bridge between the first two trilogies of the Skywalker saga then. I love how the game handles the force like a video game would be expected to. It works because everyone else in the game is unleashed with the force, but it would be too over the top for a movie/show experience. Overall it is a good piece of nostalgia before Disney's take on Star Wars. The lightsaber combat isn't as strong especially when it's treated like a police baton and most force powers aren't utilized within the environment in terms of exploration and more so combat. Overall it's a fun sandbox to play in again and again.
Fallen Order is a breath of fresh air with Disney's take on Star Wars because it's not integral to the Skywalker saga, but is told within the dark times with the same level of seriousness as Andor. I love how it's a personal story about how characters in the Star Wars universe work together and bond by their traumas. By far it has the best lightsaber combat in my opinion and I love how the Force is utilized more for the environment in exploration rather than just a means to see what I can destroy.
The Force Unleashed is absolutely fun in terms of combat with the force, but Fallen Order wins because it is embedded in the narrative, environment and combat much more fluidly. The lightsaber combat in The Force Unleashed is basic and simplified, while you have to think tactively more in Fallen Order and it's much more rewarding when you understand it. While Galen Marek has my favorite redemption arc for a character in the Star Wars universe, Cal Kestis is much more relatable. Galen is much more interesting in the novelization based on the game, however because he is much more fleshed out as you would expect from a book perspective. As for the crew I absolutely love Proxy much more than anyone else on Cal's team. He's like a twisted training simulator and record keeper droid that has wholesome character development. Juno Eclipse is much more interesting in The Force Unleashed novelization, but Merrin from the video game perspective is much more enjoyable instead of just being a deliberate love interest. Although Juno is a much more enjoyable pilot than Greez. Cere Junda is a much more enjoyable mentor than Rahm Kota and Darth Vader from the games alone. Darth Vader is only interesting because of the history of his character and not just from the base game alone in The Force Unleashed.
However, Fallen Order has a much more enjoyable final boss than The Force Unleashed. Mainly because Fallen Order understands how to insert canon and The Force Unleashed (good ending) in the end is a typical self sacrifice approach without trying to explore the original trilogy in a way you'll never see in the films. (Hence why the PSP version explores a broken and entertaining historical missions option of exploring moments from the original and prequel trilogy of Star Wars.) I get my comment is a "too long and I didn't read" inevitability and will drift into comment section purgatory, but it's better to express my thoughts for the silent majority willing to read what I have to say.
Take it down a notch okay, Mr. Autism?
@Slywerk First things first the final boss in The Force Unleashed is Emperor Palpatine. You fight Darth Vader before and you get to fight Vader again as an evil ending fight by creating an alternate reality with DLC. Second of all when I'm talking about the Fallen Order game being a breath of fresh air I'm talking about the narrative for Star Wars fans.
Bro wrote a novel
@Slywerk bro also wrote a.novel
@Slywerk XD
The Force Unleashed is more fun purely from a gameplay perspective, but I found the narrative in Fallen Order to be so engrossing, that it made up for some of the more tedious segments. It also nailed the environmental storytelling made popular by the Soulslike genre. You get to piece together other stories that didn't involve Cal, but that he sees the consequences of, and you get a sense of much larger things happening in the galaxy outside the main story. And I dunno, I actually really liked the ancient temples. I like the idea that there are/were other cultures in the galaxy that saw and used the Force very differently than the Jedi and the Sith. It leans more into the fantasy side of Star Wars, and less into the sci-fi side, and I dig that.
This was really cool part of the game. I explored the fallen venator on zeffo and the story from the force echoes actually made me sad
Damn, I never realized how similar these games are
So many newer Star Wars stuff are taken directly or inspired by Force Unleashed. Look at the way Maul was reintroduced in Rebels by Dave Filoni. Crazy force user living on a junk planet and moving around with spider legs. That's the same as Kaz Paratus in Force Unleashed. More recently we saw Obiwan inside the Inquisitor fortress rescue Leia in a big dark room where he would turn his lightsaber off to hide in darkness. That is straight from the Force Unleashed 2 trailer.
I think Spider!Maul really debuted in an earlier comic though.
@@Quirderph 2005 dark horse comic Old Wounds had a Maul with longer horns and robot legs but that seems to be the inspiration for what Maul look like after he goes from spider legs to 2 legs. The spider legs and crazy state he was found in on the junk planets seems to be more Kardan Paratus. There is many more stuff inspired from Force Unleashed too. Kanan Jarus going blind from a lightsaber wound is just like Kota.
Force unleashed 1 was peak. As a kid I hated how simple the saber combat was. As an adult I appreciate how this game is a force power playground with an actually amazing story.
Unleashed allowed your inner Jedi fantasies to come to life. The lightsaber combos and force lightning was just unreal, he really showed so much power it felt like you were on GOD mode the entire game. Very fun, very fast pace. Fallen Order has so much more story behind it, puzzles, and realism. I mean you go to a planet, you land, u discover everything you need to, you have to make your way back to the ship often through puzzles and enemies, get on the ship, actually go to the nav computer, choose your next destination, actually go to the cockpit, and witness the ship lifting off the surface of the planet you just explored, watching it leave the atmosphere, go into hyperspace, sit down for the landing, watch it enter the atmosphere of another planet, and land. Then physically go and walk off the ship, and start your next planet journey, it's truly amazing what they did, they brought the star wars universe to life in a way that's never been done before. Two completely different takes on video games, but both amazing in their own right, Truly.
The Force Unleashed is when you're a Force prodigy, Fallen Order is what you get when you're just random joe Jedi #234.
*sith fantasies
Cal destroying the Holocron wasn't random, it was half the story of the game. Between his vision from the Force, his Master and what Merrin said, he was conflicted the entire time on what to do with the Holocron, finally deciding to trust in the force and let the fate of those children be.
Flandrew my boy it's always a treat to see another video of yours! Here I am nursing my newborn (with a bottle, I am a Thomas after all) and your videos never cease to entertain me!
The inquisitors actually were a thing in the EU continuity as well. They were more of a “powerful evil wizard with their own military and political ambitions” type of thing, unlike the new canon inquisitors who are assassin agents hunting down the remaining Jedi across the galaxy. Starkiller was Vader’s secret apprentice, so he didn’t belong to an imperial inquisition officially, but at the same time there were others who did
wow, this was a GREAT comparison! The way Galen and Cal are opposite to each other in so many ways was beautifully described here. The one thing missing is the mention of which version of TFU is being compared: I know this one is supposed to be the official one, but I played the PS2 version first, so I have kind memories of it.
6:42, Most Jedi Padawans go through Trials and puzzles to create their first lightsaber and to rank up to the rank of Jedi Knight. Which is what Cal is doing during Fallen Order growing from a Force Crippled Padawan to a Fully Blown and Well Put Together Jedi Knight.
I loved Force Unleashed as a kid, it felt great to be a powerful force wielded but after finishing Fallen order I felt so sad the journey was over and so compelled to replay it. It felt like a true successor or other side of the coin from what was happening in unleashed, and in the end I think Fallen order ended up being my preferred pick of the two. Both are amazing and I can’t wait for Survivor to come out this month.
I would say rather than "their destiny should be trusted to the force," the actual reason Cal destroyed the holochron is because it's better that no one has their hands on it, than one party or the other. The reason the Force sensitive children shouldn't be found isn't because they're kids and shouldn't be on the run from the empire isnt the reason, it's because it's more likely that the children be eventually captured and turned into inquisitors. I feel like they didnt elaborate on this in the ending scene of the game but it's alright because it's heavily implied earlier on. Also if you watch all the interactions between the crew while just sitting on the landing pads in the planets, (most people skip them) you'll see that they discuss this a lot and merrin convinces cal that the children should just be left alone. And that first reason (about leaving the children alone so they dont have to be on the run from the empire) doesnt make any sense because cal and the crew are on the run from the empire too, and when the next generation of jedi (luke skywalker) begins his training, he's also on the run from the empire and his life is changed the same way they describe the lives of the children on the holochron.
I would love to see a port of Force Unleashed to update the graphics to modern standards. It's still my favorite SW game, though I did enjoy Fallen Order as well.
Considering Respawn is known for making multiplayer games (and specifically first person shooters), I can see their justification for adding in so many varied elements to Fallen Order. They'd never made a story driven action game in the way EA had requested, so they essentially HAD to look at industry trends and mash them together to get an at least passable result with a project they had never really worked on before.
well respawn did have stig asmussen as the director and he's the one directed GOW 3 so in Stigs hands, they knew what they were doing
titanfall games were known for some pretty stellar campaigns so I dunno about that.
@@kingcurmudgeon8685 Only 2
Respawn is staffed by veteran developers of Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.
I like to think that Cal's fight with Vader shows us how the rest of the galaxy perceives him, this monster who is completely unstoppable and will hunt you down without difficulty or remorse.
Meanwhile Starkillers fight with Vader is supposed to hold a mirror to Vader with both Anakin and Starkiller being very similar in several ways such as:
-both are incredibly powerful with their connection to the force even at a young age
-both are trained by a jedi who in someway fails them (Obi-wan fails Anakin by being too stubborn to admit that Anakin should be trained by an actual jedi master and not just a knight while Kota fails Starkiller by being an alchoholic and a massive pessimist)
-both have a woman that they fall in love with and for the sake of that woman's protection decide to join the other side of the war
-both are fatally wounded by the Emperor in order to save people they love
-if you choose dark side for Starkiller both are almost killed and then resurrected as a mechanical monster with breathing problems made to serve the Emperor
-both are betrayed because of their own actions (Starkiller is betrayed when Vader, who Starkiller thought had trust in him, attacks and captures the rebels, while Anakin feels betrayed by Obi-wan in the iconic scene your are all thinking of.
-both defeat their former master who if they decide to kill will lead to their failure
-and both have a quirky robot companion that they end up abandoning (R2-D2 gets left on Mustafar while Proxy ends up dying but we learn in the DLC that he could have been salvaged and survived)
What I didn't like about The Fallen Order was those bottomless platforms, It reminded me of the Super Mario games, the only thing Cal needed was to tell "yoohoo" "ah ha!"
Definitely a Force Unleashed Man. Love being Starkiller & wrecking shit like a god among insects.
Even though I really like the variety of lightsaber combat KAL can use. The double blade & 2 blades & the switching between them.
I've never actually finished Force Unleashed. Something about it just kinda never hooked me?
I should restart the game and give it another go.
I love Fallen Order and I cannot wait for Jedi Survivor next month.
Huh, these comparisons aren't exactly groundbreaking thought-work in a vacuum, but I hadn't considered how both of them being shaped by gameplay trends ultimately turn them into two very different stories, and how well they both seem to be informed by gameplay- Starkiller as a destructive hack and slash X-TREEEME force, Cal as a slower, less capable and more somber person. One being the sort of engineered prodigy, one more or less just being "A Guy" albeit one that's force-sensitive, just trying to make it through the day. Galen the star athlete of high school, Cal as just an average student, if that makes sense? I'd honestly like to see a cross-over of sorrs between them now with this dynamic in mind, but alas we do not live in a world that allows for that... least we resort to fan-fic, that is.
Very well put, love the analogy. I like it cause its like small scale vs large scale. Starkiller has superman level power. Cal has spiderman level power. Cal is more relatable in a way and has different struggles, starkiller literally fights planets full of enemies and takes on the entire empire rather than just surviving.
I always go back to play force unleashed and enjoy it every time, where as fallen order I've played once and haven't had any feeling to go back to it. It he hack and slash game play I feel is replayable where the puzzle solving and world exploring is kinda just a one and done no reason to go back to it
ye the force unleashed is just so cool, StarKiller's insane levels of power is just so fun and cool, tossing vader around like a rag doll is amazing
I like That Star Wars the force unleashed had way more interactive environments and you could just pick stuff up and throw it and break stuff and pick anyone up and toss them off into space and stuff. I wish you could do that in the newer game.
I personally prefer force unleashed. One reason is nostalgia as i remember playing it in 2015 over and over again and the other reason is the story. I love the characters introduced by the force unleashed, especially Kota, kazdan paratus, starkiller and proxy. I also prefer the pick up and play style of it. With fallen order, levels and environments are so large you have to carve out time whereas with force unleashed, if i want to kill 20 minutes then i can replay a dlc or a level without having to restart the game tp replay specific moments. Just mpo
I was also kind of meh on the ending of Fallen order, with Cal destroying the holocron, it kinda makes the journey feel a little unresolved. However the holocron needs to be destroyed to maintain canon, and i think it would have been better to destroy it during the fight between Cal, Cere and Vader in the tunnel:
*this occurs just after vader stabs Cal and knocks Cere back*
Cal is on the ground recovering, Vader pulls the holocron, Cere pulls it back resulting in a tug of war, Cere is about to lose her grip and Cal slashes it out of desperation, Cere taunts Vader for failing to get the list of children, then the scene plays out as normal, "such hatred" etc.
At least then they are forced to destroy it, giving up on good it could have done to prevent the inevetible bad that it will be used for, in the regular ending they could have just hidden it again, the empire never would have found it without them in the first place.
I would have been very happy with this conclusion.
I completely agree, it was meh and destroying the cron in battle would have been spontanious and a new sign of rebellion against vader to his face. Once they got away and the focus was on the cron i already knew he was going to destroy it. It made the whole thing anticlimactic. Overall fantastic game though.
Cal literally gets a vision of him turning to Dark Side/warning him before he acquires the Holocron and canon are not, cal has no power to fight against forces like Vader. So definitely not a meh ending and it makes more sense than usual tug of war action trope where no one gets the treasure.
Naaah the whole point was for cal to decide to trust in the force, and he was warned what would happen if he didn't destroy it. It was a big moment
It was necessary, though. There is no point in trying to gather the force sensitive children who may be with or against the idea on another Jedi order. Cal saw the force visions and what will happen if he does so . He even becomes an inquisitor. He made the right decision of letting the children choose their own paths through the force itself.
Both are fantastic games what amazed me in Fallen order is that Cal set out on mission's with out having basic force skills that many padwans have before going in the field skills like Force push,pull levitate double jump and yet he survived a great deal of predetor and Imperial encounters before he accuired those important skills with Galen dude was already skills and powerfull and ready to rock.
the force unleashed had such a fresh, creative story. Playing as the secret apprentice of Darth Vader ordered to hunt down the remaining jedi masters but slowly turning to the light side was something we hadn't seen before
I'm not sure how to feel about the takes on Darth Vader anymore. Before Disney rebooted the canon, I kind of hated how everything from the prequels to the Expanded Universe made Vader seem pretty weak. It felt like every time some new Star Wars thing came out someone was kicking the crap out of Vader. I really didn't like that Starkiller schooled Vader and the Emporer so thoroughly.
Disney's approach of making Vader scary felt like a breath of fresh air. Rogue One, Fallen Order, Obi-Wan all made Vader intimidating. But now it feels like we are in a legasequel era where every piece of media (even outside Star Wars) exists to elevate the importance of what came before it rather than standing on its own.
Either way, I spend too much time thinking about Star Wars :P
I love it when Vader is depicted as an unstoppable force, slowly advancing, and cutting off all hope of escape. He is a monster and you are his prey. He isn't in a hurry. He'll get you at his own pace, no matter what you do or how you run. I wasn't a big fan of the beating he got in the Force Unleashed, regardless of how incredibly good it felt in the moment.
i mean, i liked the force unleashed because it showed how a true force user could be so beastly. THe ass wooping wasn't that much of a surprise either, always understood it as "so THAT's what the emperor means by "squandered potential" on vader", he's a shadow of his former self, a true monster, like star killer, or palpatine himself, still wrecks him.
He gets his moment of monstrosity in the tutorial, when he basically just wades through the hordes of wookies and beats the breaks off a runaway Jedi.
The fight in the Death Star works on several levels: For one, it's cathartic for Starkiller to get back at him after Vader backstabbed him twice (once literally). It also helps to illustrate the kind of character Starkiller is: No longer a Sith, not truly a Jedi, and all the more powerful for it, as he is able to harness his own emotions without losing himself. What's Vader's stakes in that fight? Self-preservation? Vader absolutely loathes himself. Hatred? Vader harbours no hatred towards Starkiller, he's been a useful tool and it's merely regrettable that he inevitably needs to be put down. Concern for the emperor? Vader is loyal, but he hates the emperor just as much as himself.
Of course Vader doesn't wanna lose, but you need to consider that at this time in the lore, he's pretty much dead inside. He doesn't really see purpose again until he finds out about Luke.
For Starkiller on the other hand, it's a different story. He absolutely despises Vader for using him and betraying him. He fears for the safety of his friends. He wants to prove to himself that he can break free from Vaders control and determine his own destiny.
Also, it's uniquely a different situation. People don't just go after Vader. Every time Vader shows up as a terrifying force of destruction, he's on the offense, pursuing his prey. Someone attacking Vader because they know they have to get past him is a new situation.
@@cseijifja precisely! Lucas stated mace beat palps fair and square in their duel and though mace tapped into dark side energy he was far from a sith. Galen was purely an assassin and having had all that time to steep himself in the dark before learning the light, then combining it all? Galen locked lightsabers with his master many times during training, fighting to the point that he passed out from exhaustion. He had plenty time to study his master's methods and fighting style. He used Juyo, Shien and Soresu, the most aggressive style and the best defensive one, combined with lightning (vader kryptonite), and the fact that vader himself was much slower but still underestimated galen and it's not that unbelievable that he lost the encounter. The emperor saw the potential in him for a reason lol.
Okay, Star Killer hunting down Cal needs to be a cannon TV series
To me i love the force unleashed because it's a literal powertrip of an experience while fallen order is more of a grounded experience to me. I would have loved if FU had a combat arena like GOW ghost of sparta (where you can fight endless hords of enemies of your choice) and i would have loved if FO had more emphasis on force abilities. They are such different games but one thing about them in common is that they are a fun experience worth trying
Force unleased did have an arena feature like gow.
@@thecaptain4630 really? Last I checked it didn't exist. I'm mostly thinking about TFU 2
@@EthanMastercrafter its on the psp version for the first one. Not sure about the other platforms though.
@@thecaptain4630 ohhhhhh. Yeah i heard the (no offense) downgraded versions have WAY more content like the wii version, i would have loved to play the arena endlessly
I have to say I vastly prefer fallen order, I find the over-the-top portrail of the force unleashed just absurd, it just (and I hate saying this because I know it's vague but) it doesn't feel like star wars, star wars is not a super hero franchise, conflicts aren't resolved by characters chucking energy at eachother and screaming. I know some people love the power fantisy but I'd rather have difficult duels and grounded (in the star wars galexy) conflicts. I don't want to mop the floor with Vader because then Luke finally beating him means nothing, it's the same issue I have with the rise of Skywalker's ending, when the star destroyers started blowing up planets, I stopped caring about any of it. And when palpatine started wiping out an entire fleet with lightning, I honestly thought I was watching a fanfic written by me at six years old, we've seen what the limits of the force are, and it's those limits that make things interesting and create the stakes.
When anything is possible, nothing means anything.
6:50 "You'd be riding high after flying The Big Bird and defeating Bowsers Wife" made me lol
When it comes to these two games, I say it is like comparing apples to oranges. People have their preference, but both are delicious
I like both apples and oranges but Fallen Order is the kind of oranges that has seeds in it. Really annoying.
Jedi: Fallen Order is Tomb Raider with Lightsabers. That alone isn't an issue, but when Fallen Order started to send me back to the same Planets I spent hours climbing around, I had to turn it off.
I lol'd at Cal Kestis being described at having Force ED.
Galen is my favorite Star Wars character. I wish they would put him in a series but considering how much Disney shits on Star Wars he might be better left alone.
Force Unleashed is nostalgic but I just feel like Fallen Order had more gravitas. The combat was more engaging and kept you on your toes. The story and Cal as a character just made more sense canonically. I just loved how they really emphasised the scale on everything too - the world design was phenomenal. On top of that, it's visuals were stunning and the cast did really well as their characters to the point you could actually see them making a TV series with them. Fallen Order was one of those rare occasions I actually completed a game, even going for all the collectables and I'm hoping the sequel delivers like Fallen Order did.
Well cal is just a padawan and starkiller was trained by anakin. Big difference
watching this after i’ve just been playing survivor rly makes me appreciate how much they streamlined the game
I think the best and easiest way to describe Fallen Order is to just call it a metroidvania
i missed the dismemberment in force unleashed 2 hope they implement it too on survivor
I really love the exploration heavy Jedi Fallen Order. I don't mind back tracking. When done right - like in Metroid, Resident Evil, Castlevania , ...- it adds, not detracts- from the gameplay.
I personally enjoy the backtracking, since I love the different environments and geography of the planets in Star Wars. Also, I feel like backtracking is a nice change of pace and allows you to have another opportunity to explore and look for secrets and whatnot as you go back to where you came from
Backtracking if done right, feels more realistic
Fuck the ice caves
Pulling a star destroyer out of the sky is by far the most bad ass thing we’ve ever got to do in a Star Wars games lol
The Force Unleashed kept me interested all the way through. In large sections of Fallen Order I was just bored with "oh good another puzzle" being said sarcastically quite often.
It wasn't even as if the puzzles were badly designed in Fallen Order but they really stood out as they were also clearly designed for the purpose of slowing the player down rather than feeling like an integral part of the level.
I can't agree more, you really feel it in this game
Inquisitors, and their Legends predecessors, Acolytes have the distinction of being limited in how much they're allowed to learn to prevent them from becoming a danger to the Rule of Two. In the original Clone Wars, Count Dooku is forced to hunt down Asajj Ventress when Darth Sidious notices her becoming too powerful. Starkiller however, is a secret apprentice, trained with the express intent of betraying and overthrowing Sidious. Secret apprentices are a classic rite of passage for Legends Sith, who as Shaak Ti is quick to point out, have a long and storied history of betrayal
I think Force Unleashed might have an edge, but Fallen Order set up for a sequel a lot better. Force Unleashed 2 did about as well as it could, but Jedi Survivor has so much it can do just with the characters the first game introduced, not to mention the stuff teased by the trailer. If executed well, it could really expand on the areas the first game was lacking in.
@Slywerk that's the point.
When I think of it in a *'One Canon'* sense, I believe that, at some point, Galen would be tasked by Vader to try and hunt down Cal, Merrin, and any other Force-users that could be a problem for the Empire....just like how Galen was sent to hunt down and kill Rahm Kota, Kazdan Paratus, and Shaak Ti.
Depending if Cal is still in active "Duty" ^^ the Problem is Force unleashed plays way after Fallen Order and even Jedi Survivor.
When Fallen Order first came out, I decided to replay Force Unleashed first because all of these parallels did occur to me. I came to a lot of the same conclusions you did; they're both products of their time.
I think TFU had a bit better overall story (especially in fitting with the canon of the time) with a grander scope, but JFO had a bit better characters (such to the point that I was deeply disappointed that the NPCs didn't get a bigger role, something confirmed to be remedied in the sequel). The one weakness that both games have is a lack of player choices, so the story feels a little bit on rails. TFU does at least have the alternate dark side ending, but JFO gets nothing. I hope Jedi Survivor ends up having ways the player can influence the story as opposed to just going along with it.
I mostly prefer the gameplay of JFO; the movement is better (especially given TFU's frustrating issues in regards to dash-jumping), and the combat is INFINITELY more satisfying to me; TFU basically just comes down to button mashing your way through entire armies, but in JFO, fights feel like actual fights with real stakes and wins feel well earned. The one edge I'll give TFU in terms gameplay is that its intuitive system of moving objects around with the Force was sorely missed when dealing with some of the more frustrating puzzles requiring the same mechanic in JFO.
I think the locations in both games are really well done and have a fair bit of aesthetic variety, although JFO's are prettier overall (that said, it's mostly due to graphical advancements over the decade between the two).
The backtracking in JFO can be a bit irritating, especially if you're lost, but sadly this is a inevitable side-effect of all Metroidvania-style games. That said, while there were some unlockable shortcuts in the game, it definitely could have had more, particularly after key story moments. The devs said that any sort of quick travel would defeat the spirit of the game, but I think that having just a few main "bases" you could QT to (even using an in-universe thing like "oh here's a speeder" would make the game paced a bit better.
Overall, which game is "better" really does boil down to personal taste. For me personally, TFU is pretty nostalgic (though not to the degree of Jedi Knight or KotOR), and elements of it do hold up. But JFO is a more modern game with a lot of innovations; as opposed to sticking to a single genre, it combines elements of many, and does a very good job at it. Between the variety of the game and the overall much better gameplay, personally I find JFO more fun to play. But TFU will always have a special place in my heart as one of the biggest multimedia events in Star Wars history. I'm really excited to play Jedi Survivor though!
I love how fallen order looks but I can not stand having the pacing and flow of a game interrupted with unnecessary puzzles to pad time/content.
Interesting can you do a knights of the old republic comparison between the first two games and the online version.
Star wars the force unleashed made you feel so badass, the force abilities were so awesome and you could have infinite fun with it.
I honestly would so love force unleashed come back maybe be remastered or even rebooted to better fit with cannon and get that third game. I do believe a lot of elements from force unleashed could still be done in cannon if worked the right way. And it would make for an excellent duality alongside the jedi Fallen order games. It feels like there's definitely some interest in it from the fanbase as well as disney given to the recent subtle nods to the force unleashed with starkillers sith armor in Andor as an Easter egg. And Rahm Kota being canonized in Obi Wan as a surviving Jedi. There's just been a lot more recent attention to it all.
TFU will always hold a place in my heart for its inclusion of the euphoria system, throwing stormtroopers around in that game never gets old
In fallen order .the caves/mines of I think kassykk were so hard to navigate..so much back tracking..
Kashyyyk was the worst. I missed a chest at the top of the tree. I wasted more than an hour trying to get back up and then having to climb back down and return to my ship. They put the bird creature about 1/3 of the way up the tree so you think you can fast travel to the top but nope... it takes you BACK to the bottom. I was so pissed.
@@chamoo232
I played this game like 4 years ago , then I play it at last week again, but I'm still remind me that are something there at in the trees!
Maybe I'm just a good player to this game 😆
My ideal Star Wars game is KOTOR 1&2' story with the combat dynamics of Jedi Academy, the maps and graphics of Fallen Order/Survivor, and FU's bombastic disposition.
I would've preferred they make the puzzles more intellectual. Instead of just moving a ball, have them answer a question based on Jedi or Sith lore, or have some Towers of Hanoi stuff going on. That's how KOTOR made puzzles interesting. Also, Cal destroying the holocron with the list of Force-sensitive kids made the whole journey pointless, since he could've at least had Saw Gerrera relocate these kids somewhere safe, so they can wait out the Empire and Cal can rebuild the Order once the Empire falls. Which, given that the Empire is run by the Sith, it's not a matter of "will they fall?" but "when", since the Sith always turn on each other.
I feel like force unleashed had a good story that wasn't as good while fallen order focused on the story to carry the backtracking, and everything else is gold
Great video. I was only thinking about these 2 games today. Thanks. I preferred Force Unleashed as i didnt get lost as much and the dlc was epic.
I hope that in Star Wars Jedi survivor we will still be able to frequently climb and swing on ropes and climb up walls and wall run and parkour like you do in fallen order
How is it that you keep making videos that I thought would only exist in my imagination? It's like you're reading my mind lol. I love your content, and I look forward to your comparison of The Force Unleashed II and Jedi Survivor, should you decide to make one.
While I prefer TFU1 to Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor hasn't come out yet, I think it's safe to say that comparing TFU2 to it would be like beating up a baby. A handicapped baby. It's gonna be a miracle if TFU2 wins that one.
@@AllardRT I loved TFUII.
@@gnbman Well, I can't take that away from you, I guess. Me, I... it was painful. Because the core gameplay, the feel from the lightsabers, the controls, that was massively improved from TFU1. But the actual levels... had about one hour of content stretched across four hours.
@@gnbman gameplay-wise TFU2 is so much fun. its biggest problem is that its too short.
@@ArcAngelus6 5 hours is respectable. It's not a ton, but TFU 1 was only 8 hours, including DLC.
“That’s right scan his ass BD. Oh nice we got a skill point!” lol good times
You could play the first level of Force Unleashed with Vader as a Demo on PS3.
One of my greatest gaming moments.
I was so hyped for that game and it freaking delivered.
I like the force unleashed a little better because of many reasons
1. It shows a good variety of force abilities
2. I (selfishly) love the feeling of mowing down a ton of enemies
3. It feels like it could have fit in to the storyline (im not talking about disneys version of it)
Agreed 100%
Fallen Order was on sale, so I bought it and was slightly disappointed how UNlike Force Unleashed it is.
Different game play and not entirely comparable, but I do realize my disappointment is for selfish reasons. There is nothing wrong with Fallen Order. It is a solid game. But I also missed force blasting entire rooms of stormtroopers. Starkiller is so badazz, Cal is a pusci in comparison... but I get it.
Starkiller is a sith and Force Unleashed is just that, the force unleashed.
Cal is Jedi and has to regain and re-learn his abilities so his appeal is his growth.
I missed the Force Unleashed so much, that I dusted off my ps3, found my copy of the game and am currently playing both games.
Force Unleashed did not age well, admittedly. The controls are clunky, the hit box is weird and the light sabre combat is peripheral to the combat as a whole.
However, the combo system is creative in that the lightning and force blast can be infused in the sabre.
Fallen Order seems to focus more on the intensity of a light sabre fights and incorporates ideas that coincide with Jedi. Patience, strategy, hi-stakes, subtlety, using minimal aggression and finesse.
I also HATE parrying mechanics in any game.
But I understand why it's here and it does fit lightsabre combat perfectly and the times that I get it right and pull off an instant execution with Cal is sexy.
"You could almost think of Starkiller as a proto inquisitor."
Actually no, Starkiller was around long after Inquisitors already existed as well. Jerec, the main villain of Dark Forces 2 was actually the original grand inquisitor.
In old canon they just weren't as prominent but their purpose was more or less the same, they also didn't have uniforms nor shared that whole helicopter saber thingy.
They were just dark jedi that served the emperor and hunted jedi while in disguise usually.
Plus calling Starkiller an inquisitor is insult to his character because he is Darth Vader secret apprentice to help him take down the emperor pretty much fulfilling the rule of two tradition of the Sith plus there is no doubt that Starkiller would destroy the whole inquisitors.
@@jaieregilmore971 yeah Star killer is more of an actual Sith IMO than an inquisitor one of the only Sith to be only trained in Sith ways since childhood besides Maul & Palps
Though a lot of what you say is spot on, I'd argue that your take on the Zeffo was really off the mark. It's your opinion, sure. For me the Zeffo meant the most to the story. And in terms of why the Zeffo stuff 'doesn't look Star Wars', well, there is a reason for that; they are _incredibly_ ancient. We're talking possibly over 25,000 years old. There is no confirmation for their age, though I'd argue there are solid arguments for why that could be possible.
They are so far removed from most of galactic history in the Skywalker Saga, that of course they will be pretty different. And even if they were only half as old as I am speculating as a civilisation, that would still be more than enough to put them so far before most of what we could call, 'dynamic' galactic history, by which I mean, complex and fully-realised galactic events.
On the basis of that logic, I think you're underestimating how extensive the amount of work that went into the Zeffo civilisation was. They are likely going to be one of the most important species in Star Wars in the long-run. That you didn't point out the three eras of Zeffo history being journeyed through by Cal Kestis, is odd. This was integral to Cal's recovery from his own trauma and presented parallels to the downfall of the Jedi Order.
The era of Sage Eilram was relatively incredible in age, clearly much older than the other two, in a time when cooperation between the Zeffo and Wookiees of Kashyyyk was clearly happening (if you pay attention to the references to both in the discoveries you can make in the game, like the Wroshyr wood sarcophagus of Sage Eilram in his tomb on Zeffo, a sign of immense respect from the Wookiees, and the Shrine to the Zeffo, likely Sage Eilram, on Kashyyyk, found near the very top of the Origin Tree) I have a lot of theories on the reasons for this, and in general I am convinced it has something to do with the Rakatans (my primary theory on this is that the Rakatans were at war with the Zeffo, including over the freedom or enslavement of Kashyyyk, and that the Zeffo helped to liberate or block the insidious Rakatans from enslaving the Wookiees)
Although relatively recently (within the last dozen years) subjected to being relegated to non-canon status, even more recently (within the last few years) the Rakatans have been confirmed as being definitely brought back into canon considering Lehon (otherwise known as Rakata Prime) was included in maps of the Sequel Trilogy aka relating to maps of the galaxy as the Resistance or New Republic knew them.
The return of Rakatans to canon, would imply a great many things. No, it doesn't re-canonise the lore from the KOTOR series regarding the Rakata, though they would be absolutely compelling as a serious rival to the Zeffo. The Bad Batch series has shown a Zeffo assault walker come to life and it was considered to incredibly ancient. The idea with the Zeffo was that they were initially peace-loving, wise, technologically ingenious and friendly with other species. Then they started to lose their way.
First, they became more extravagant, with exuberant architectural styles. This is exemplified by the Tomb of Miktrull. Now, this by itself does not a fallen species make, and it doesn't mean that they were wholly unforgivable or that they had fallen to vanity completely, and into the clutches of the dark side. But the point is, as repeatedly made throughout the levels on Zeffo (of course, especially when you have to go into that cavernous Tomb of Miktrull), that the Zeffo were not above using forced, slave labour of their own kind.
There are skeletons of labourers throughout the Tomb of Miktrull, and signs that they were worked to death. I appreciated how, for a change, a game made the cerebral connection between the vast open spaces you are effortlessly traversing, to the actual moral cost of what it took to literally carve and dig that out of that mountain. They are the victims of a cruel regime, and Miktrull, though likely not a completely evil ruler (especially not compared to Sage Kujet, who I'll get to later on), was clearly an apple who fell very far from the wise Sage Eilram, and what he had been. You go from the impressive but relatively (compared to Miktrull's tomb, at any rate) modest tomb of the Sage Eilram, with it's references to their friends the Wookiees (see the inner chamber of the Tomb of Eilram, and the reliefs of the Origin Tree on Kashyyyk, and what the Zeffo called, the 'Life Wind' aka the Force) to the abject horror of Sage Kujet.
Sage Miktrull is thematically held up as the middle phase - and whether it really went Eilram/Miktrull/Kujet as simplistically as that is unknown (and I'd hazard a guess, highly unlikely) You may debate the game play aspect of this and think it superfluous to Cal Kestis' journey, but it is building this massive subplot to an early civilisation in Star Wars. Perhaps one of the most ancient with major technology. There are likely older civilisations like the Columi and the Celestials, though they were from a _very_ different time in Star Wars galaxy history altogether. If you think the Zeffo are 'not very Star Wars' then wait until you see them. The point is, timespans of such immensity _would_ result in a variety of possibilities and paradigmatic phases in galactic history.
If you are as familiar with and well-read enough in Star Wars at this point as a life-long Star Wars nerd like me, then you'll have a likely appreciation for the 'look' and 'shape' of the Star Wars galaxy in say, the Crusader Wars, the Great Sith War, the Jedi Civil War, the Old Republic, the High Republic and the Late Republic.
There are distinctive visual themes with say, the Sith of Koribban (no, never calling it 'Morabund' seriously, I can't stand that; just leave it at Korriban ffs why they have to mess with lore like that in Star Wars The Clone Wars of all things, I can only put down to Filoni the Stable Genius being Filoni the Stable Genius; aka most overrated thing to ever happen to Star Wars, ever, bar none; gatekeeping nerd who landed on his feet, simple as that, being treated like the messiah for not getting things as messed up as Kathleen which is a pretty low bar let's be honest; not buying it that he is that great, I have critical thinking I can see what he is, not just a gullible nerd who laps it up because they were told to by the Mouse, not happening. Anyway, where was I...)
There are distinctive eras, where if you have seen enough Star Wars and can coherently understand vast spans of time and understand the flow of things, that yes, there will be patterns and changes which stand out. The Zeffo _are_ genuinely discordant to most of that, but that is not unreasonable for being the case. Filoni's self-indulgence in Star Wars Rebels had the Force Gods known as the Ones (sigh, don't get me started) going full anime with high-minded attempts at bringing more religious symbolism into Star Wars; the Father, the Son, the Daughter...really Filoni? Really, you thought that was highfalutin genius writing? Subtle? No) And that stuff looks like something out of Final Fantasy or Soul Calibur, our some subpar anime about magicians or something. The Jedi are categorically made to look like scrubs in their own galaxy (and don't get me started on the f'ing BENDU)
I get the idea of playing around with the different force sensitives that are not Jedi, but the whole point about the Jedi, was that they were supposed to be a big deal for a reason. They weren't meant to be reduced to being subverted and highly questionable space wizards with childishly basic viewpoints on the galaxy, which stand out as incredibly obviously flawed to anyone with double digits IQ. Clearly, there was stagnation in the Jedi Order which led them to that juncture of failure, a thousand years of complacency prior to Order 66. But it cannot be that simple. It just can't.
This is why playing the tomb raider and archaeologist roving around the tombs of a civilisation as old or older than the majority of Republic history, is so compelling. It gives you the perspective of the Jedi, following the near eradication of his order (you know, his, 'Fallen Order', get it?) and seeing him learning about a civilisation completely removed from the Jedi (probably; no indication as yet the Jedi and Zeffo had anything to do with each other) which had the same problems the Jedi and Sith had for so very long. The Zeffo eerily echo the downfall of so many Jedi, into Dark Jedi or Sith. The horrors of Kujet on Dathomir, are so far removed from the benign nature of Eilram on Zeffo.
Interestingly enough, the Tomb of Miktrull is close by the Tomb of Eilram. Now, don't get me wrong, I am well-aware that this is likely done primarily for the convenience of game design and their proximity is probably referencing how, for instance, ancient Egyptian tombs and ritual monuments were often built on top of, or adjacent to, older ones; either to ape on their reputation, symbolic importance, respect, sense of posterity and passive cultural resonance and reverence, or to even, inversely, self-aggrandise themselves to contrast themselves with their older, and smaller comparison. I can see both arguments. Like Pharaohs outdoing each other with bigger and grander burial chambers and pyramids. Monolithic, megalithic structures, getting better at being what they are, by craft and by ingenuity. Yet the exact reasons for why Miktrull had positioned his tomb so close to the Tomb of Eilram, are left unknown.
[part 1/3; parts 2 and 3 in replies below]
[part 2/3] Again, _we can say_ that Miktrull was aping off the hugely respected Eilram, or deliberately placing his tomb on the other side of the mountainous ravine, to the Tomb of Eilram, out of universe, because the game level design prefers it that way. I know, I know. But _in universe_ there has to be an explanation. So make of that what you will. Suffice it to say that I'd prefer to see it as Miktrull cautiously trying to emulate the symbolic significance and cultural importance of Sage Eilram, while leaving his monuments in-tact and alone in his own time, and not just elbowing them out of the way and demolishing them.
Imagine if Sage Kujet was setting up his tomb in the same area, and not on the planet Dathomir, where he did eventually die. That monster would probably deliberately demolish and defile the whole place, both Eilram's and Miktrull's, just to prove a point about his own power (like Ancient Egyptians whom chiselled off the faces of previous Pharaohs from statues, after periods of civil strife, when they grew to see them as heretics; literally trying to erase them from history, to be forgotten, and robbed of meaning to later generations, as a way of desecrating them)
If you understand archaeology and the history of civilisations, and if you can discern and appreciate these things, the whole Zeffo situation is really well put together. I have to say, it feels like those ruins are really interesting and well-thought out. I like the statuary and the repetitive nature of how the Zeffo make statues. It may seem dull or convenient for level designers to just constantly weather statues and staircases etc but if that is what they liked to do in visualising themselves, then that is what it is about for them. Their planetary homeworld had high electro-magnetism and electromagnetically charged winds.
They call the Force the Life Wind, partly because their own planet is a windswept place with dangerous, ionising storms. They seem to have evolved in mountain caverns and set themselves against the winds, shaped by it and flowing with it, but also empowered by it. They are clearly capable of having powerful force sensitives. Their sages were probably no less powerful than the strongest of the Jedi Masters and Sith Lords. Maybe they even surpassed them. We just do not know.
Sage Kujet was incredibly evil and duplicitous, and it is established in the game that there was a massive scale of slaughter inflicted by the evil Zeffo on Dathomir, on 'rebels' within his own halls. There are emaciated husks of horrifically murdered Zeffo, apparently immolated or drained of life. Turned to statue like ashes. Whatever happened to them was no fire of nature. Some dark side ritual was very likely involved. In the nightmare ruins of the Tomb of Kujet, there are carved reliefs in solid, mafic, polished rock, of the enemies of Kujet being cast fatally into the chasms below, in vast numbers, in ritual executions. He was clearly a horror of his time, whenever that exactly was.
How long after Sage Miktrull or Sage Eilram, that Sage Kujet was, is still unknown, but I'd speculate it could be a lot longer than it might initially appear. Kujet was more specifically known to be around near the end of the Zeffo civilisation. He was partly or largely responsible for it's collapse, with a gigantic civil war destroying the Zeffo on either most or all of their colony worlds. And I would speculate that the Zeffo under Eilram had long before, earned acclaim by fighting the greatly powerful and feared Rakatan Infinite Empire. Speculation, yes, though it would line up with the fate of Kashyyyk. If the Rakata are back in canon, then they would likely still have a hand in Kashyyyk, and the first liberation of Kashyyyk could have been the Zeffo saving them. I'd like to think so.
The eras of Zeffo history are still not fully-understood, though it does follow that the oldest era in-game was Eilram's, then followed by Miktrull's era, then followed by the 'newest', Kujet's era. I would argue any eeriness regarding Eilram's tomb and the ancient catacombs near the bluffs forming the cliffsides of that mountain in the game, are more or less just to do with the fact all tombs will be a bit creepy, no matter how nice the person used to be inside it. Eilram was probably a pretty chill Zeffo hanging out with Wookiees, but layer over that the tragedy of the downfall of the Zeffo, a sinister Imperial occupation and the general look of anywhere left silent for potentially tens of thousands of years, and yes, it's going to become a scary place.
The Tomb Guardians are hardly generic. They are very specifically tailored to the look of the Zeffo, in terms of their cranial features. They look somewhat similar to the Knights of Zakul from the Old Republic game, and those fantastic cinematic trailers. However, I'd say the Zeffo were _far_ older than them. I would not be surprised if they were 25,000 years old at the time of their height, with their downfall coming more like 20,000-15,000 BBY. Which, would still put them before most of the important Republic history. The Republic would not get on with someone like Miktrull, enslaving thousands of his own people.
Eilram was the benevolent leader, with an impressive but relatively modest tomb compared to the others. Miktrull was the extravagant show-off autocrat with oversized architecture and megalithic designs, and Kujet was the Zeffo equivalent to Emperor Palpatine. I found them fascinating. They'd clearly done their research on ancient civilisations and there were some places in the tombs - and even on colony outposts like on Bogano - where I'd just pause and appreciate the view for a good while. It really was well-made. We can compare some of the level design in especially the Tomb of Miktrull to Lara Croft Tomb Raider with the extraordinarily massive cavernous spaces and giant statues. But there is no reason why that couldn't have been their uniting cultural endeavour (whether voluntary, or enforced, through slavery of the work forces)
When you've gone through the different tombs enough, you begin to get a real appreciation for the different mentality used. It might not be obvious but even without the pretty deliberate and sometimes on the nose temporal force echoes that Cal gets when he interacts with things, I picked up on it. I could tell before the game told me, which is in my view, good game design. More than that, good civilisation design in-universe. I could tell immediately how much bigger on the map, the Tomb of Miktrull was. Like it was a more serious expression of Zeffo technology, with sharper looking architecture and more lavish interiors.
Even many thousands of years as a sorry and shattered ruin, have not diminished some of it's grandeur - and the Zeffo power source of those energy orbs are remarkable, still powering their lights, force fields and automata long after the fall of the Zeffo civilisation. Any civilisation whose mere shadow, towers greater than living civilisations, is a seriously impressive civilisation at least in a generalised way. Even if they became ostentatious and eventually evil (at least, in part, not including the rebels fighting Kujet), we must acknowledge they had achieved wonderful things (again, even they began to use them for dark deeds and vile reasons)
My theory that the Zeffo once fought for the freedom of Kashyyyk, while speculative, would allow a greater basis for the Rakata to be brought in. The Rakatan Infinite Empire had 500 worlds and as many as 1 trillion slaves. 10 billion warriors. Untold numbers of slave soldiers as cannon-fodder. Millions of ancient Rakatan war droids. Their hyperdrive tech was drawn to highly biomatter prevalent, subsequently high-force signature planets. If Zeffo hyperdrives were anything like that, then they could converge, coming into conflict over systems which had huge signatures in the Force.
The Rakata would enrage the Zeffo by belligerently murdering and enslaving everyone, which would be tragically ironic later on as the Zeffo degenerated into doing that themselves; I'd speculate, long, long after they'd maintained wisdom and being on the right side of history. Being chill with Wookiees is being on the right side of history, for sure. The Rakata were absolutely genocidal maniacs with a trillion slaves and although 500 planets might not seem to make sense for an 'Infinite Empire', I would disagree.
Their 10 Billion warriors, averaged out over 500 planets, would result in 20 million warriors stationed on each planet. Now, if more important ones had twice as many as the average and more difficult to garrison or logistically challenging planets (or just less important colonies) had just a few hundred thousand warriors, you could still have larger garrisons elsewhere and large numbers serving in their naval forces. In the real-world of the 21st century planet Earth, with over 7 billion people on Earth, all armies combined come to about 29-30 million soldiers. It is highly plausible, therefore, that even 36,000-25,000 BBY, the Rakata could have about 20 million warriors per average, per planet.
[part 3/3] To stand up to a power as abhorrent and aggressive as the Rakata, the Zeffo would have to be very powerful indeed; and we know they were. There are no two ways about this, their technology is highly impressive. So if you have primitive Wookiees 25,000 BBY going about probably not having even invented the Bowcaster yet, and just using spears and shields, the Rakata would walk all over them without mercy. The Rakata enslaved entire species, and wiped out others. They were beyond disgusting and I like the idea of the earlier era Zeffo (when they were truly good), standing up to them and giving them a taste of their own medicine. I believe these things can become connected if they play their cards right.
The Zeffo could become a thorn in the side of the Rakata, being that one obscure faction that just trounced them almost every time they met. It wouldn't just be the Wookiees. I also came up with a backstory to Yoda's species, being linked to encountering the Rakata with the Zeffo saving them, in the time of Sage Eilram. After, that is, a horrible conflict which turned them away from being too outgoing on the galactic stage, for the rest of time as we know it.
The Zeffo are being hinted at more and more often, but with Filoni in the driving seat I think they'll just end up doing something 'Basic B' with it and ruin their story. We've seen what Filoni did regarding the 'Force Gods' of Mortis. And don't get me started on the dabbling with time travel and alternative timelines that Filoni flirted with in Rebels, or his totally-not-ego-driven, endless and unhealthy obsession with Ahsoka Tano.
I mean yeah, she's alright, but the Filoni Empire wants you to accept her being shoehorned into everything now. I often wonder what TCW series could have been without her in it. It started to become almost as much about, if not more about, the drama around her, than the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin, which started to get tedious towards the end. Then in Rebels she turns into some monk like, Time Lord-like sage milling around with a Gandalf cosplay thing going on. Well, okay then Filoni. Whatever.
[voice of Cornwallis from 2000's The Patriot, about overrated low testosterone nerd Dave Filoni] _Damn him, damn that man!_
P.S - Sure, you are right that the returns to Zeffo did jarringly change the flow of the story, though I genuinely appreciated them. Maybe that is because of my interests of all things ancient, though I think it was more about the fascination with the world-building effort they'd put into it, that impressed me. I could appreciate the work they'd put into designing what they were about, but I could also see the vast potential in the Zeffo civilisation. They could have a great role in keeping the Rakata at bay in their neck of the woods in the galaxy, before collapsing during their own civil war and descent into madness and tyranny.
We know that the last of the Zeffo went into the Unknown Regions following the death of Kujet, and that he had been buried with ceremony. If he hadn't have been, he wouldn't have been entombed with the last astrium in his dead hands. This in itself implies that he'd died of old age, seeking immortality, and failed. Eventually withering away and dying, and his faction either falling apart post-mortem, or being helped along in being seen off by the remaining rebels. I would hazard a guess that the rebels were victorious, in a foreshadowing echo of the rebel victory over the Galactic Empire in the Skywalker Saga.
The fact he died of natural causes could imply there was a bit of an impasse and that he either couldn't be killed by the rebels while in his lair on Dathomir, or that he was besieged there and died there (eventually) Or maybe they were at a stalemate, and his long life finally fizzled out, only for the final victories of the rebels being presumably so costly, that they had little left of what had once been their great civilisation. A combination of their shame and their self-loathing over what happened to them, would drive them into the Unknown Regions to reflect and 'find peace'. It is not known if they survived to the main timeline.
The sequels had it that the First Order had spent decades conquering the Unknown Regions, and had fought wars with aliens species there. Maybe that includes the Zeffo. After all, the Zeffo were being studied by the Galactic Empire. Maybe they tried to find them. Emperor Palpatine had Zeffo relics taken directly to Coruscant. He knew they were powerful force sensitives. More likely, they died out long before the time of the Skywalker Saga.
Nevertheless, it would be incredibly impressive if there was a fortified enclave of near monastic Zeffo, hiding out there somewhere in the Unknown Regions, after all this time; imagine their technology, with many thousands of years longer to develop it, in secret, away from the eyes of their foes. Curiously enough, long before the Unknown Regions in the way that was meant in the Sequel Trilogy era from 2015 onward, was where the Rakatan homeworld was found. Lehon/Rakata Prime was, about 24 years ago as of 2023, developed as this peripheral planet in the area of space then vaguely referred to as the Unknown Regions. The expression didn't quite mean the exact same as we think of it now, since Episode VII.
A lot of different regions of the galaxy were still being developed, with various iterations of 'Wild Space' being mentioned. That was how much of the Unknown Regions in the 'top left' side of the galactic map, looking at it (wait for it)... from _a certain point of view_ (r-r-r-reference r-r-r-rewind lol) The Rakatans were established as lurking beyond the normally observed areas of the galaxy, and their civilisation was over 25,000 years old. During the events of the KOTOR games, they were still well over 20,000 years (more like 21,000 years) older than the likes of Bastila Shan, Revan and Malak. So it'd be very interesting if the Zeffo had run ins with the Rakata.
The Rakata were absolutely merciless and reprehensible and if the Zeffo encountered them it would have been a war. There could have been no alternative. The Rakata do not negotiate they just attack and try and kill and subjugate. The old school Zeffo would have every reason to teach them a lesson. But it wouldn't be the Zeffo trying to destroy them completely, just fend them off planets they cared about, like Kashyyyk. And any attempt to punitively assault the Zeffo themselves would lead to a vast interstellar war in which I frankly see the Zeffo dominating the Rakata technologically.
All they have as a key advantage is the Star Forge and that means nothing if they constantly keep getting their backsides handed to them. It'd just be draining to them at a time when they were basically fighting the entire rest of the known galaxy and proto-Republic rising up to destroy them (what did for the Rakata in older canon, was a plague which hit them very hard during their own civil strife and costly wars with their many, many justified enemies, and then basically degenerating into feuding factions to the point they only had Lehon/Rakata Prime left, and devolved into tribes that mainly fought to destroy each other) The Rakata were cannibalistic and ate their enemies, unfortunate slaves and each other (not like that, not with those teeth) They were monsters.
They literally and figuratively bit the hand that fed them (murdering the benevolent Kwa species, whom found them and erroneously taught them about the Force and space-travel; not realising they were dealing with the least respectful and most horribly vicious traitors of their time. The Zeffo are better than the Rakata. Phactz. The idea of them fighting would make a lot of sense if that happened around 27,000-25,000 BBY.
Maybe my speculative time placing for this and the heyday of Zeffo culture will eventually be proven wrong, but I don't care, it makes sense to me and I think that would be an interesting addition to Star Wars. If Star Wars is the 'lived in galaxy', then a mega-civilisation earlier on in it's history won't have the hallmarks of that lived in galaxy. That is the point.
I am gonna just screenshot all of this and read it later
I enjoy that I could turn my brain off and be OP in force unleashed
Not nostalgia. I still play both. I can say that Starkiller has more character charisma and just better in general. What I like about cal, we need to work to get wbilities
What I like about Starkiller: literally everything. How the force is portrayed and the feel of freedom
I hope you do The Force Unleashed 2 so you can say if you remember buying a demo at full price.
It'd certainly be an interesting comparison. Never played the Wii U version, but I have played the PC and DS versions. Hoo boy was the DS version a thing. If you thought the touch screen combat of the first game on DS was a bad choice, TFU2 made it much worse. Never made it beyond the first part of the return to Kamino.
force unleashed 1 and 2 were so fun. The physics of the stormtroopers when using the force on them and when they grab things...loved it
I loved both for diffrent reasons and I feel like they could easily revisit force unleashed like God of war was revamped, I'd love to see a republic commando review or the of battlefronts! patiently waiting for the next video man
Great video Flandrew. I wasn't sure was Fallen Order was supposed to be compared to Force Unleashed (especially the good ole PSP version). It looks like it has a lot of modern gaming tropes unfortunately. I wonder if it's in any way replayable like Force Unleashed where choices can matter.
Plot wise? No, the story is what it is.
Granted, even The Force Unleashed only really had alternate endings, which is less than they promised during development.
Also I do prefer Force Unleashed as it feels like a completed product at the end of the day. When I bought Fallen Order it felt like a unfinished idea of a game with to much going for it and a lot of bugs. The A.I for the Empire was pretty subpar and felt like a rail shooter the climbing would glitch out and made Kahyykk that should’ve been my favorite level the worst, and overall I just don’t enjoy the villains as much as I did in the Force Unleashed. The Inquisitors felt like pushovers with Vader being the only truly scary individual in the room. Trila was scary to as she atleast was a menace but she turned back to the light at the end and ended up not being what I was hoping for.
Unleashed was a power-scaling nightmare of a power fantasy. Fallen Order felt like it belonged in a world where Vader was the feared monster of the Jedi.
Personally I Like the Lightsaber Combat Far Better in the Jedi Knight Series with Kyle Katarn! I Only Wish They Continued with That and Built Upon it Over Time!
Best comment!
Love the Jedi Knight series to bits and pieces!
I thought I did too til I went back and played it they really don’t hold up well
hair and water is always really tough to nail in video games & CGI movies. i remember at the moment seeing that Chewbacca hair for the 1st time thinking "wow this looks really good"... now I almost laugh at it 😂
If only Starkiller wasn't so overpowered and heavily disruptive towards both canon and legends, it would have been very cool to bring him back to intertwine his story with Cal's.
I could be wrong having never played those games , but according to what I've seen here and there about the story of Force Unleashed, looks like his interactions with Vader in particular couldn't fit in canon storyline even if wanting to.
Nonetheless I'd be more than happy being proved wrong if someone coming from a better knowledge of that arc could make sense of a rivalry between the two, providing an high stakes foe for Cal to face
I know, I'm going way way too far 😂
It's this never ending wait for the game's fault! 😢
Starkiller is not overpowered. EVERYONE in Force unleashed is overpowered. It's force powers cranked to 11. Vader does crazy stuff in the intro level. Even Rahm Kota is more powerful than any Jedi or Sith we ever saw in the movies. That's the concept of the games. They are like telltales retelling by witness who exaggerate all the facts. People often say that Starkiller should not be able to beat Vader and Palpatine. Well he didn't. He died while they both walked off. Sam Witwer also said on stream that the 3rd game was going to show Vader's true power and that everything that happens in the 2 first games was part of his plan. Starkiller beat Vader because Vader let him.
Lol well my advice to you not playing TFU is no lol I do not recommend putting Star killer against Cal if he’s anything like the original he’s literally a kid who got kidnapped and trained by Vader his entire life 😅 I didn’t even find him overpowered I just thought hey this is what Vader would teach his student to be like
@@HomeFriedBeans If they are too evenly matched it would be really hard. It would all come down to who's plot armor is strongest. lol
Star killer isn't OP, even if you ignore that it was to be revealed that vader let him win, starkiller has an extreme efficiency with force lightning, which is what gives him a chance vs vader, and in every instance where it's lore and not gameplay, in every version of the story, starkiller doesn't even hold a candle to palpatine
Good idea for a vid, maybe compare the EA and Rebellion Battlefront maps?
It’s honestly a crime against humanity that Galen was purged from the canon. And there has been no attempt to bring him back somehow. I don’t even care if he’s nerfed (as long as it’s not to the point where he’s on a inquisitor level). I just want him back.
He definitely has to be nerfed a ton, he was stronger than anybody else we saw in SW Canon. However he's a very interesting character and I hope it's reintegrated one day.
There's potential this might not age very well...
This just makes me want to see a Cal Vs Star Killer in Jedi 3. Obviously SK's origin would have to be different. But seeing Sam Witwer in a star wars game again would be so amazing
I don't think it's entirely fair to compare them as the gameplay of the two games as they're both striving for two different things.
Fallen Order has a more grounded tactical based gameplay meant for thinking ahead and not rushing into things through maneuvers while Force Unleashed makes you feel like a powerful demigod who can destroy everything around you while giving pure power fantasy rush of destruction and chaos.
They're both different on what they're trying to do and they're both excellent at it!
It's not difficult to see the difference at all as they're striving for two different things.
Like for example, Fallen order has movie-like cinematic moments that feels a Star Wars film similar to what Uncharted does at times, but that's defiantly a positive thing ENTIRELY so as those moments are ABSOLUTELY amazing and immersive to the experience. They're all great moments to witness and that's one of the things that makes the game absolutely amazing!
9:20 "Yogurt Lid" LOOL you killed me with that one 😅
This comparison is exactly why I personally cannot take seriously people saying the new canon is ruining star wars. Vader IS Star Wars, he has been Star Wars since '77. And in the New Canon he is a horror movie villain that other horror movie villains tell themselves to watch out for. "I am surrounded by fear and dead men" is an iconic line for a reason, and only Vader could pull it off.
Then Kenobi wrecks his ass :)
@@Hello-bi1pm Because Kenobi is the boss sauciest of all boss sauces.
The one thing, the one definitive thing I like more about fallen order than the force unleashed is that in fallen order, you actually can slice and cut things and see them split into two with your saber. It’s one of the few games where you can actually do that and it feels like you’re holding a laser sword. You can impale them in the for unleashed, but you can’t cut them in half.
I think they both have highs and lows. The one huge problem that fallen order has is the extreme difficulty in navigating the levels. You can spend hours going in circles trying to get back to a chest or whatever. The map is crap.
I enjoy TFU a lot more personaly because of the story that kinda mattered to the universe back then. Where FO story leads nowhere.
And then the gameplay is much more fun in TFU as well. Souls like games are not my jam at all.
Cal is also way too weak for a "jedi" and he shouldn't struggle that much against stormtroopers. It feels so underwhelming.
Regarding exploring these planets... Fans already know them like the back of their hands, I don't need to see more of them. I've been seeing them in games, books or comics for years... Let me have fun instead of trying to make me feel nostalgic or whatever.
Personally, I actually like the backtracking that takes place in Fallen Order. Usually, I like to play the story without exploring so much, so the backtracking gives me the opportunity to do that exploring that I missed out on and fully appreciate the beauty of the game.
The backtracking is what literally made me wanna uninstall and conveniently they knew to remove it from Jedi Survivor.