Thanks for watching, everyone! You should all tell me a bit about your favorite young superheroes and why you have such a strong connection with the character ... if you want of course...
First of all, I enjoyed the video's that both you and Drake had put out, watched his first, just finished watching your own. But i would like to give my own 2 cent's on the matter right now, and it start's with one word. Context... Why Context do you ask? It's a rather major part of how we view what is new compared to what is old (And vice-versa for that matter) and what people are upset by with new Younger Hero's right now is FAR more than what it must have been during the 80's (I was born in 1997 so a young man who's only 21 myself me saying this should give you an idea on how I view all of this.) Okay, I'll admit right now that there will ALWAYS be people who are gonna hate ANYTHING that is new NO MATTER WHAT! But the thing is, for a lot of people (such as myself) these new Younger Superhero's just don't give anything worthwhile to ANYONE these day's. Case-in-point, America Chavez, she was made in part to appeal to those who are Latino and/or lesbian, and yet those same people don't like her and find her to be a poor representative of them (It's true! I can't post where it was said precisely, but a quick Google Search should point you to it!) And what is she REALLY at the end of it all? Keep in mind I'm saying as she is by her 'Creator' (Although I for one would NEVER have the one who made her as part of a writing staff PERIOD!) Overall, she only come's of as a Author wanting to play out a fantasy and is like a Mary Sue at time's! In other word's, someone I can't bring myself to get ANY interest in. Kamala has the problem of having NO one set mindset that people can get behind, and while the shot's at her being Muslim are a LITTLE bit cheap, it's not like they don't have anything to base it off of... Riri William's doesn't seem worthy of taking on the mantle of 'Ironheart' (Side note: Who came up with that name? It's rather Boring and generic, and not the good kind.) And what does she do? How does she act? I can't really say it's so much as the character's being INSPIRED by their author's as much as it is them being used as mouthpiece's for the Author's in question, and they seem to be pushing for an Ideological Mindset that has ZERO Logical sense mind you, I see myself and beyond Political Party's mind you. I want to focus on thing's that have REAL impact on the whole WORLD, not some stupid debate about Gender and what is and isn't worthy to call someone by, leave that to the one's who would inherit a Post-Scarcity universe, although I find it hard to believe we will EVER achieve such a state when these Pundit's would rather commit ARMED VIOLENCE to anyone who disagrees with them! So in other word's, the issue that I among other's have with current young Superhero's isn't so much as there being to MANY, it's that they aren't done WELL. Or to put it simply, we want QUALITY in our new younger hero's NOT QUANTITY! Now I don't care what your skin tone is, I don't care about what impairment's you have. For instance, I was born FAR earlier than most (was meant to be due around November, was born in May, 4 and a half month difference is what I'm saying.) And they had to cut my Mom via C-Section, BOTH WAY'S and they STILL had a hard time getting me out because I was SO tiny, I could have fit in the palm's of your hand's cupped together. I wasn't even a week old when I was clinically DEAD for a number of time's, long story short. I'm luck to be alive TODAY as it stand's with the issue's I have. When the doc FINALLY pulled me out, it was by my left leg that I kicked, it's been messed up ever since, meaning I am having CONSTANT bout's of pain made WORSE when I put too much strain on my leg, also it's for LIFE, and No, I CAN'T get a replacement limb because it's along the ENTIRE leg, from the Hip down in fact! So I know what it's like to have issue's, but I can't say most of these "Hero's" appeal to me because are just BORING! I know it's a long rant, but it's only to give you an idea of what a guy who's been growing up among all of these coming about feel's of all of these newcomer's, if we didn't have a POINTLESS CULTURE WAR BECAUSE OF A FEW SORE LOSER'S! Then these character's would have been more welcomed over time, or at least would be BEARABLE at least! So yeah, that's that!
Also don't hate me for all of this, I just want to have people TALK to one another again! And I just want this STUPID stuff being forced into comic's getting put out all the time to be GONE! So I guess you could say I'm for #Comicsgate, but really, I just want to have FREAKING HERO'S IN MY COMIC'S AGAIN! Also can I just also add that I HATE CIVIL WAR, BOTH of them in fact, the first one because it brought about One More Day (and I STILL hate it with a burning Passion! I wouldn't KILL Quesada mind you, I'd just write better stories than he EVER could, I'm not saying out of Ego, just plain fact's. You want Proof? Look up 'A Spider and A Specter' on Fanfiction.com, it's in the early stage's, but it's something I WANT to do and that I ENJOY! Which is more than what I can say for those who are writing in Marvel OR DC right now!) And the Second one was just Stupid. I mean, HOW THE FUCK DID THEY NOT THINK THAT GUY WHO WAS THE CAUSE OF IT ALL WAS ONLY LOOKING INTO ALTERNATE WORLD'S AND NOT THE FUTURE! It's just stupid, all of it is. So yeah, I just want to have people be DECENT to each other in all of this again, but no one care's about what I have to say, no one give's a fuck about me ONE BIT!
Just to be clear the problem with these new characters is that a lot of them lack any real depth or Heroic qualities. The writers spend more time promoting their "diversity" than what makes any of them great characters. Quite a few of them aren't good at all and it's due to a combination of bad writers and Marvel constantly spamming events and interrupting entire storylines before these characters can even get the chance to be developed or fleshed out. The worst part is how it seems more like we're told to respect and love these characters for their very existence alone. Marvel shitting on th Legacy of the characters that came before them doesn't exactly help either.
@@heyarnold7256 That's pretty much what I'm asking for, if your going to have new Hero''s then give the reader's a REASON to like them and WANT to read about their stories BESIDE'S the fact that they are 'Diverse' as it where. And yeah I don't like the fact that some of them could be REALLY good, but the writer's involved RUIN them as a whole, take Ms Marvel for instance (The Teen Inhuman one that is.) Now I would not mind having a character like her around, a Girl who is of Pakistani Descent and is Living in New Jersey is someone I would NOT mind, but with some of the Writer's they make her just seem so BAD, not as in making her seem more like a bad guy, but rather that she is written just BAD. And a good example of people not liking a character for the sole fact that they exist alone is America Chavez, pretty much NO ONE like her, even the people who she was meant to be a Target audience for, that being Lesbian's and Latin American's, I don't have an Issue with EITHER by the way. It's just that when a character who is meant to be written for a certain to be read by a specific Target Group fails to do so and is even regard as a poor message by said group. Then your writing staff need's to be cleaned out and replaced with people who might be a better fit. A good example is Miles Morales, when I first heard of him I had no issue with the fact that he was some Black kid, I was more so upset that they had to kill off Peter Parker to make way for him. I mean really? REALLY! Who think's it's a good idea to get rid of a version of a character who has been known by people for DECADE'S with a nobody by KILLING THEM OFF?! But I must make it clear I had no issue with Miles at all, I understand that him seeing Peter Die was a big reason why he chose to become Spider-Man, but there are other way's of handling the issue and Marvel has done so in the past. A good example of how to have a New person fill the role of an older Hero and doing it RIGHT is Spider-Girl (And NO I am NOT talking about what version we got from Spider-Verse onward's, I mean the one from before all that!) And if none of you are sure about that let's list off what it does with the whole legacy Concept... 1. The Main Character: Being that May 'Mayday' Parker is the daughter of Peter and Mary Jane Parker it mean's she has a fair bit to deal with, from the fact that she has her Dad's smart's and her Mom's Look's making her be the attention of a number of people at school (and not always for the better mind you), to the issue of having to deal with being a High School Student, a Super heroine, AND having to deal with Infamous 'Parker Luck' that her Dad had to deal with and her Mom had to accept when she choose to be with him, it makes her feel rather 'Real' in that while it is VERY much so a Superhero Story. It's also a story of what it's like growing up in a family who's member(s) include people who where known for doing great thing's and how it is trying to make your own mark on the world and stand out on your own instead of being the kid of 'that guy' also helped by the fact the O.G. Writer of Spider-Girl was using real life experience with regard's to his own Daughter wanting to join to Police. It REALLY made it feel more in depth because of that element. 2. The 'Old' Hero ISN'T DEAD: One thing that I dislike of how it is with legacy hero's today rather than before is how often the writer's think killing the old one off will make it seem 'better' for the new one to show up (Note that when I say 'Killing' I don't mean they DIE persay, but for all intent's and purposes they are for the story's sake, if you've Read any Thor Book's, that's an example.) Now what Spider-Girl did was rather Smart, they kept Peter alive, have May be Spider-Girl while her Dad acted as a mentor of sort's (after he accepted that she was going to do it no matter what, not unlike how he was when he wore the mask.) And the thing is, the main reason as to WHY Peter gave up the Mask was a wake-up call after his last fight with the Green Goblin (That and having his Foot getting replaced with a Prosthetic was another one) and had to choose to be a Father to his little Girl, or be a hero all the time and be there for his daughter when his Parker Luck allowed him too (Not saying that Little May wouldn't be able to deal with her Dad being a hero, in fact I think she'd think it would make her Dad even cooler! Even if she couldn't tell the other Kid's about it.) And afterward's the only reason why he DIDN'T just put on the old Suit and Mask and take up the Webshooter's was because she was doing TOO GOOD to need him too! Think about it for a moment. A Super Hero who has Retired end's up not going back in because the Protege does their Job so well the former hero has no real reason to do so without making it feel like overkill. And WHEN has that ever been a thing since? And No Batman Beyond doesn't count (Even if I LOVED the show) because Bruce was Too Old at that point to really be Batman and NEEDED a Replacement. I was trying to think up a Third one to go along with all of this, but I think I might drag it on longer than needed, but I think you all get the point of what I mean, have the new Hero's be WORTH reading on, and DON'T treat the old one's like Crap (My Eye's are on you bastard's, you know who you all and the rest of you know what I mean, and if not, then just ask around, you'll figure out what I mean.) So yeah, any thought's? And BE CONSTRUCTIVE with your Criticism, if you only want to troll, or try to piss me off, then you won't get anything out of me.
Personally I would prefer to have young characters who are more new, because while having a young reiteration of a classic super hero can be an interesting new take, young characters are the perfect way to introduce new staple characters, which freshens up new comics
Well how are we going to figure out who is the best Beyblader, Yu-Gi-Oh dueler, Pokemon master, Shaman King, or best superhero in the world if we don't start searching in high school? Maybe the One Piece treasure is hidden in a pirate high school somewhere too!
@@EldritchMage3922 dismissing it as a cash grab is definitely the right thing to do. Let's definitely not think for more then 5 seconds how it is building off the original in cool ways.
It's cuz in Japan life ends at 18 (when people there graduate high school and are forever sorted into the role of overworked corporate husk or depressed unemployed pariah) so it makes sense to have these stories be set during the one point in life when you can actually go on any sort of wild adventures.
I agree with nearly all of the points made in this video but the sad truth is that both companies rarely grow these new heroes enough room to grow and develop. Just when you're really getting their latest arc that's fleshing out their character, BOOM! They get derailed or swallowed up by the company-wide super-event of that month.
That's very true unfortunately. I think a good counter-example for that is Duke Thomas over in DC right now. Scott Snyder has done a great job slowly introducing him and giving him his own heroic personal, The Signal. I'm excited to see what happens to him over the next few years.
And that's the difference between classic young heroes and new young heroes. The popular characters Trump everything and any book could get killed because an event happens. This didn't used to happen, not til the mid eighties to mid nineties, hence why so many classic young heroes had the staying power modern young heroes lack - they had room to breathe that modern B/C-tier books lack. If the event could go away for a little while it'd do a world of good for comics as a whole.
a lot of things were overlooked in this video. race was a Huge factor in the backlash characters like miles and Kamala faced and squirrel girl defeating huge villans like Galactus is a running gag.
Agreed. They fail to distinguish between well received runs like most of Young Avengers and the (ORIGINAL) Miles Morales run, and poorly received runs like anything with Riri Williams and the (RECENT) Squirrel Girl run (the latter of which is basically just a bad run for a good character). They're looking at the past with rose colored glasses and ignoring all the failed experiments, the characters who never lived up to the hype and were forgotten. All they're doing is harping on the good aspects of comics of the past while ignoring all their failures. EDIT: I just fixed a typo. It would've bugged me otherwise.
@@glitchygear9453 yeah true like the riri Williams iron man run was just poorly written and n so was the Sam Alexander nova run. and champions as both a book and a team felt.largely unearned considering how many good young heroes existed in books like young avengers and avengers academy not to mention a slew of great young x men
The problem is almost all of the old characters are white males, because that was the expected thing back then. The non-white maleness of the new characters is an attempt to balance the scales and appeal to a wider audience. But that heavy thumb on the scale to balance things certainly calls attention to itself and leads people cloaked by the pseudo-anonymity of the internet to complain about it. Obviously the scales need to be balanced, but care needs to be taken to make the transition seem organic and not forced.
@@tomleonard830 why do the scales "obviously need to be balanced" sounds like you are too obsessed with race to me, the scales don't need to be changed at all. sure if you have an idea thats cool for another character make them non-white, but saying the characters need to be balanced results in poorly written and thoughtout ideas. don't demand new characters for racial reasons (which is what balanceing the scales is), because its racist and patrionising. use new character ideas first, and then maybe make them 'non-white'
I wish younger characters like the many examples presented in the video had their own identity from the start. Problem is trying bring attention to them unless they are tied to other characters. Establishing them into the universe before leading to an arc focused around them or at least involving them is a start.
I don't mind new characters, diverse or otherwise, as long as they are not forced with any ideological agenda. And I tend to see that the seamless fits are the ones that are well written and given time to bloom. That's why I loved Kamala Khan and Miles Morales' characters when they were introduced; but not so much with Riri Williams. Although the new iron heart series seems better. Also the New 52 was hard to digest when they did an overhaul. There have been drastic diverse changes there that might have irked fans (including me) even more, but thankfully good writing in the most part saved the day!
Umm.......I haven't watched the video all the way through, but I don't think people were angry because they are young. It's mostly because people think that the character only exist for some sort of social problem (i.e being black, Muslim, feminism,and all that)
Characters exist to solve problems, so when people complain about new characters being created to fill story telling needs they're just showing their lack of understanding about media and entertainment in general. Superman was created by two young jews who wanted an icon to admire in a dark time. No one was complaining about heroes being created for some social problem then, and yet when it happens now, it's the end of the world. All just my opinion of course.
@@RickNazden I think it's more so the issue that the new hero's come off more as poorly written Author Avatar's (Beside's being at MANY time's being Poorly Written either way) and the fact of how many of social 'Problem's' (The Quotation mark's are VERY Important) are in fact non-issue's, or at the very least, PALE in comparison to the larger problems facing us as a SPECIE'S Like how we don't have an effective mean's of Renewable Resource's (on the sole Premise that what we use now WILL run out at some point.) Or if that's to big for your mind's to handle, how about the fact that the U.S. is having a MAJOR Drug use Outbreak right now and have only RECENTLY begun having ad's showing the issue on the surface, needless to say. There are bigger Problem's we need to focus on, and thing's about Gender and Race and all of those thing's are NOT those Bigger Problem's. I think it's best summed up in that I want the World to be in a state that future Generation's can WORK with and LIVE upon, not Barely SURVIVE on trying to get the next scrap to live for the day. If we just got our PRIORITIES Straightened out on what we REALLY need to do, rather than what everyone THINK'S we need to do. We could have a world where the ability to live is at a point that we can manage and PERHAPS at that point THEN we could have people TALK about these thing's, although by that point I think people then will see these thing's as non issue's altogether and view them as waste's of time and effort and look back on our time and shake their heads in disbelief on what we thought was more important that making sure we could ACTUALLY LIVE on this Planet. But that's my two cent's on this. TL:DR current thing's aren't being dealt with Tact and to many just sound stupid when they are shown in comic's.
@Ranger Dimitri The issue is that more often than not is that nowadays they are not characters. They are the walking manifestation of the thing they are suppose to represent and nothing else. America is hispanic and a lesbian. That was her whole character in her run. Iceman is gay now. That's literally his whole character in his run. Riri is black. That's basically her whole character in her first run. Got fixed in her new run though. So kudos. Miles is fine because he is not black, he is not hispanic, he is not a walking checkmark in a diversity list. Miles is Miles first and foremost.
@@Magnet_Chaos EXACTLY! That is what annoy's me the most about any new 'hero's' that come out these day's, aside from Miles, NOBODY has anything that define's them other than some surface level trait like 'oh, he's gay!' or 'She's a hispanic lesbian!' but here's the thing, I'd have no real issue with any one like that for real at all. I don't have anything agianst people who happen to be of a differnt Race or Religion or prefence or whatever! But if you are making a character for a story, that people are meant to read and enjoy, and the only thing you can come up with is a litteraly One-Note bland as all hell cardboard cutout. Then I have to question who the hell thought you would be a decent writer and who taught you how to write professianly? The teacher's I had in HIGH SCHOOL would find these 'character's' to be needing work done on them and to be looked over and the person who made them to be taking extra lession's on how to be a writer! No wounder Manga is killing Amercian Comic's as a whole these day's, at least the one's writing those book's have an idea on what people want from their cast of character's...
sidekicks and younger heroes also give a sense of time to the universe. To give an example Batman has been in his ~40sish since basically the beginning while Dick Grayson started in his early teens and is now in his mid-late 20s. Sure the fact batman has barely if at all aged makes no sense but the ability to grow up with the sidekick and younger heroes is an awesome thing that seems to be increasingly not a thing.
It's because Batman is our dad and Robin is the reader. The readers have gotten older, but our ideal image of our dad remains from our school years, before we moved out on our own.
For one, Dick was not in his early teens - that was only in the new 52 when over 40 years of comic canon got compressed to over 5 years. It was funny to see Batman go through 4 Robins in 5 years 😂 In every other continuity, Dick creates his Robin mantle between 8-10 years of age.
@@anitak3985 I was going by the All star batman and robin timeline (god that story was just stupid). I wasn't sure what dick's age was when he was first introduced. 8-10 actually gives more of a sense of time. Side note: dc, NO, just pretend like you never said that batman went through 4+ sidekicks in five years, that's just too dumb.
I read the first few issues/volume 1 of Ms.Marvel. It's ok and I eventually plan on finding vol.2 but I'm not going out of my way to find it. I would love to read the Miles Morales Spiderman run and look forward to the animated Spiderman film.
My usual comics-buying habits tend to stay well outside the realm of "young" lead characters, but with the breakout success of Kamala and Miles, I might make an exception sooner than I normally would. At this moment, I mainly read the DC Walmart books, one of which does make a special focus on young heroes. Shockingly enough, the main "Teen Titans" features are not my favorite part of that book. Rather, those would be "Super Sons" and "Sideways." Damian Wayne and Jon Kent might technically fit the sidekick role more, but their petty arguments and slightly abusive relationship have brought new life to the "World's Finest" double act in ways their dads haven't been in decades, maybe ever sometimes. As for Sideways, he's a bit of a harder pill for me to swallow, but he's still interesting enough that I'm giving him a chance to truly impress me someday. It certainly helps that he's basically Peter Parker from "Ultimate Spider-Man" with a different power set and a lot more responsibility to live up to. That does make him extremely derivative, yet still with a bit of something DC has historically lacked, outside of maybe Jaime Reyes' Blue Beetle. Oh, and Static, but I'm pretty sure they've never really talked about Vergil's high school problems in modern continuity, have they?
The Super Sons books were incredible and I can't wait to see where those characters go next. Check out my SUper Sons video if you haven't yet because I agree that they are the new "World's Finest" duo!
Will do! Incidentally, I'm sure you likely give it a brief mention in the video, but the original "Super Sons" feature from the 70s sort of anticipates the present incarnation in a roundabout fashion. Both involve the sons of Supes and Bats traveling around the country (maybe a bit less so in Damien and Jon's case) and dealing with issues of presumable interest to the young audience.
So you're just going to ignore race, religion, and gender when talking about Riri Kamala and Miles? It was _just_ their age that caused backlash. OK. You failed to distinguish what made successful young hero runs and what made terrible ones.
i'm glad you made this video!! i really fell in love with kamala khan and miles as characters since they were around my age and truly were my gateway into comics ,young avengers was also a great read , while its important to know the history ,new things needs to be added in order to bring in fans and fresh stories otherwise you'll end up in a rut
I personally like the idea of young heroes because I like it when comic book characters actually age which is a huge problem comics have. What people hate though is when a new character shows up that outshines a existing hero.
Look man create as many young heroes as you want. But for the love of God get someone who can write them well. Miles and Kamala are fine. But in the on the other side of the spectrum we had America and Nadia.
i'm really really loving the new run on Champions, i read it from the start but from #19 onwards it gives me the feel teen titans used to when i was a kid and i've become attached to most of their stories, going as far as tracking down their debut titles and previous solo stories. would be a wonderful addition to the animation side of marvel or the mcu.
I have no problem with building out the universe and creating new young heroes. But they can't be as good as the more seasoned heroes because we need to see them develop, they need to be either otherwise decent superheroes in their own right or a good apprentice, and they can't replace an old hero until we've seen them grow into that role. Ms. Marvel really just took up one of the many names Carol dropped and Miles was given time to develop in an alternate continuity. New characters take time to find a fanbase no matter what their age.
I'm actually surprised they included Jane Thor as a young character... She's a woman in her late 30s with cancer. Now I like the character and agree she's over-hated but also don't understand why she's being grouped in as a young character.
@@glitchygear9453 I think they just grouped the characters that were hated tge most, together . I guess they realized that half of those characters are children
The unfortunate thing about characters like this nowadays is that they're no longer allowed to grow alongside their fans anymore, they just get sidelined in favor of the adult heroes
Would be great if Marvel or DC bought Danny Phantom,Generator Rex,Kim Possible and Ben 10 because those four are teenage I watch when I was in elementary School, Middle School and High School!
DC hates younger superheroes. DC has a roster of legacy characters that have proven equal, if not better than, their mentors but DC has failed to provide decent stories for them and instead have killed off a handful recently. DC's Titans are the best examples of great legacy characters that the company is fridging just so that the original superheroes continue to be their sprightly self. The current Teen Titans roster is just the same old Titans roster with new faces under old mantles.
It's because the suits at WB are terrified of losing the "Trinity money". During the 80's-90's they did begin to pass mantles on to younger characters (most notably Wally West and Connor Hawk), but the suits got cold feet during the mid 90's comic crash and never really recovered mentally
Thanks for the heads up,i will avoid new warriors like the plague. Also never thought i would see Marvel dig itself deeper and deeper with bad practices.
@Hyun Dong Lee Hire writers that aren't particularly talented or interested in writing comics and doing so because they are gay( like they did in ice man) or a black woman (iron heart). Subcontracting idw for comic lines they could do themselves. Continuing to publish stories that didnt sell the first time with the exact same writers for a second run such as Unstoppable wasp, and squirrel girl, and America Chavez.
@Hyun Dong Lee things get over-hated because of political reasons. People who praise the book as gospel and ignore criticisms as "racist" or whatever are being just as shallow and political as Comicsgate. I say, ignore both sides and just form your own opinions on your own time. I think that once you do, you'll start disagreeing with both the fanboys and the comicsgaters... Both of which are being equal parts driven by shallow emotion.
@Hyun Dong Lee for an idea of good work look at Marvel stories from the 60's or DC stories from the 70's, which are often viewed as the companies respective golden eras. In particular the Ditco run of Spiderman, or O'Neal's Batman, or Green Arrow runs. As a general rule of thumb a story based on full characterization and universal themes will be a much better story than one based on "I am ______, hear rawr" and personal politics. The failure of "all new marvel" was that they allowed several writers with very specific ideologies absolute free reign to write comics based solely on those ideologies without regard to the core readership. It did not help that many of these stories, in addition to being very preachy, were very poorly written as the writers shared a postmodernist philosophy that there is no objective standard by which to judge anything, therefor all criticism of those stories was because of a bias against either the authors particular "dao". This is what created the whole "comicsgate" idiocy. Social issues can be done in comics but ultimately must be well written & well rounded to be accepted. Look at Northstar as opposed to turning Iceman gay. One was well thought out and a rounded effort at creating a gay character the other was "look we have gay characters". The newer Marvel writers also don't seem to understand that attacking your critics is only going to lose you readership, and that biting the hand that feeds you never ends well.
Honestly,EVERYTHING in this video is true! but you missed something. Just imagine seeing a 10 year old uses psychic powers like telekinesis on a villain (yes this is an OC of mine)
I love that DC comics have a sense of legacy. And young heroes growing up and becoming heroes and passing down the legacy to the next generation is exactly how that works. The problem is that because Bruce and Clark are SO iconic to people outside of comics, they are not allowed to grow old and pass down that legacy (except in future or elseworld stories). They can have sidekicks, who go on to be heroes in their own right (and even have their own sidekicks), but the insistence that Bruce is Batman and Clark is Superman prevents a true passing on of the legacy. They try to fix this by doing reboots every so often, but this ticks off the people who like that legacy, so the continuity of the reboot timeline is fudged bit by bit until it is so convoluted that another reboot is called for. If on the other hand, they allowed the marquee characters to get old and pass on the mantle, then the reboots would not be necessary.
I like Bruce and Clark being timeless, fuck legacy bullshit, that can work for characters like Wolverine but not th see amazing icons....Yes I have problems, I know.
As a lifelong DC fan (Batman in particular) I would love to see him pass the cowl to Dick. The idea that the DCU has history and a future is what drew me to them over Marvel and it's eternal "now". It's a world not only with active current heroes, but also the heroes of yesterday who've retired and tomorrow's heroes learning their trade with both older generations. The early Wally West run of the Flash when he first has to accept the loss of Barry is some of the best character work from the eighties. Also aging out heroes helps prevent the mess of things like New 52 or Marvel's general shitshow
its funny how manga and comics have an opposite problem from each other. Anime overuses the 14-16 year old troupe so much that they have a entire genre for it.
Bro, just stop right there! We can all agree that Miles is great, but Kamala Khan and Riri? GTFO! No one rejects those characters because they're Muslim, or female, or black. We reject them because they're written like shit by YA novel writers pushing their far left political propaganda. Marvel wants you to like Khan BECAUSE she's a female Muslim. Marvel wants you to like Riri BECAUSE she's a black female. We wouldn't even care that they took the place of highly beloved legacy characters IF they were built up to it over about 2-3 years of development, and if they were written with character traits that go beyond their surface features like their gender or religion. And as for showing the pic of Captain Marvel and Spider-Man when you said "fan favorite characters"..........Spider-Man: YES!, Carol Danvers: LOL, No. And she's never going to be the way Marvel has been pushing her. Carol Danvers is the Roman Reigns of comics. Don't even try and group us all together as hypocrites because we latched onto Teen Titans but we rejected Riri, Amadeus Cho and X-23. We latched onto the Titans characters because they were developed into actual characters, not just Leftist propaganda caricatures. When a new character (Riri) checks off all but one of the qualities that indicates a person is a psychopath, we can't (and won't) accept them as a hero. Riri should be made into the villain that she was meant to be. We ALL know in our heart of hearts that Marvel did all their replacement characters as part of their SJW agenda. Don't even try and pretend it's anything else. And the sales numbers back up everything I'm saying. If we were all racists and/or sexists, Flash, Teen Titans, and Titans in the Rebirth line wouldn't have been received so well, and sold so well because of how many diverse characters it features. Yes, we love young heroes and we DO need them. But, they need to be well written characters that are more than just their surface traits. Leave the political propaganda at home, please.
I don't think we can gloss over the complaints of diversity hires quite so quickly and throw them away because they came to soon. There's no way a character so flawed could be later revealed as a rash decision or something. A complaint of " he's to silly" may later prove untrue or the character may evolve but a complaint of "why throw an X type of character in there randomly?" Is either true or false and it's very unlikely that'll change
I 100% agree, New characters are very useful additiins. Love them or hate them, they deserve time to grow & see how folks like them with time. Just my humble opiniin.
I find it funny how that article says that fans are angry about iron man being a black girl, but not for the reason you think, because it is exactly for the reason you think. It's because she's black and a woman. Racist and sexist comic book fans have been around for years and any time someone who isn't a white man is introduced in comics they get pissed.
@@Auron1Roxas2 Auron1Roxas2 And you are treating comic book fans as a collective. You know what makes some one a comic book fan? They like to read comics. Are there bigoted comic book fans? Yeah of course they are, but thats not special to comic books. Besides, just because there are bigoted people who dislike riri does not mean that disliking riri makes you a bigot (there are valid complaints starting from how she was introduced and how the baton was passed). I mean from the instant you say you are gonna replace a main stay character, regardless of any descriptor people are gonna be mad. People were mad that wally took after Barry and he's a cis white male. People are now mad that Barry has taken over as the main flash as of the new 52. It's not always a bigoted thing
@@Auron1Roxas2 and you greatly overestimate bigotry amongst comic fans. If it we're as you say characters such as Black Panther, Black Lightning, Static Shock, Northstar, Frank Choi(Blue Beetle), Cyborg and many, many other characters would never have lasted. You cheer when a poorly designed and badly written character is shoved down your throat and act as if they are the first and only character of that group in comics just because of their place in the victim hierarchy. Much of the nastiness from readers is a direct response to the name calling and rabid attacks like yours. Nastiness only begets nastiness and failed books in return.
Thanks for watching, everyone! You should all tell me a bit about your favorite young superheroes and why you have such a strong connection with the character ... if you want of course...
Amadeus Cho before getting hulked out, he was a great hero under Greg Pak, now it feels like his intelligence and powers kinda clash with each other.
First of all, I enjoyed the video's that both you and Drake had put out, watched his first, just finished watching your own. But i would like to give my own 2 cent's on the matter right now, and it start's with one word.
Context...
Why Context do you ask? It's a rather major part of how we view what is new compared to what is old (And vice-versa for that matter) and what people are upset by with new Younger Hero's right now is FAR more than what it must have been during the 80's (I was born in 1997 so a young man who's only 21 myself me saying this should give you an idea on how I view all of this.)
Okay, I'll admit right now that there will ALWAYS be people who are gonna hate ANYTHING that is new NO MATTER WHAT! But the thing is, for a lot of people (such as myself) these new Younger Superhero's just don't give anything worthwhile to ANYONE these day's. Case-in-point, America Chavez, she was made in part to appeal to those who are Latino and/or lesbian, and yet those same people don't like her and find her to be a poor representative of them (It's true! I can't post where it was said precisely, but a quick Google Search should point you to it!) And what is she REALLY at the end of it all? Keep in mind I'm saying as she is by her 'Creator' (Although I for one would NEVER have the one who made her as part of a writing staff PERIOD!) Overall, she only come's of as a Author wanting to play out a fantasy and is like a Mary Sue at time's! In other word's, someone I can't bring myself to get ANY interest in. Kamala has the problem of having NO one set mindset that people can get behind, and while the shot's at her being Muslim are a LITTLE bit cheap, it's not like they don't have anything to base it off of...
Riri William's doesn't seem worthy of taking on the mantle of 'Ironheart' (Side note: Who came up with that name? It's rather Boring and generic, and not the good kind.) And what does she do? How does she act? I can't really say it's so much as the character's being INSPIRED by their author's as much as it is them being used as mouthpiece's for the Author's in question, and they seem to be pushing for an Ideological Mindset that has ZERO Logical sense mind you, I see myself and beyond Political Party's mind you. I want to focus on thing's that have REAL impact on the whole WORLD, not some stupid debate about Gender and what is and isn't worthy to call someone by, leave that to the one's who would inherit a Post-Scarcity universe, although I find it hard to believe we will EVER achieve such a state when these Pundit's would rather commit ARMED VIOLENCE to anyone who disagrees with them! So in other word's, the issue that I among other's have with current young Superhero's isn't so much as there being to MANY, it's that they aren't done WELL. Or to put it simply, we want QUALITY in our new younger hero's NOT QUANTITY! Now I don't care what your skin tone is, I don't care about what impairment's you have. For instance, I was born FAR earlier than most (was meant to be due around November, was born in May, 4 and a half month difference is what I'm saying.) And they had to cut my Mom via C-Section, BOTH WAY'S and they STILL had a hard time getting me out because I was SO tiny, I could have fit in the palm's of your hand's cupped together. I wasn't even a week old when I was clinically DEAD for a number of time's, long story short. I'm luck to be alive TODAY as it stand's with the issue's I have. When the doc FINALLY pulled me out, it was by my left leg that I kicked, it's been messed up ever since, meaning I am having CONSTANT bout's of pain made WORSE when I put too much strain on my leg, also it's for LIFE, and No, I CAN'T get a replacement limb because it's along the ENTIRE leg, from the Hip down in fact! So I know what it's like to have issue's, but I can't say most of these "Hero's" appeal to me because are just BORING! I know it's a long rant, but it's only to give you an idea of what a guy who's been growing up among all of these coming about feel's of all of these newcomer's, if we didn't have a POINTLESS CULTURE WAR BECAUSE OF A FEW SORE LOSER'S! Then these character's would have been more welcomed over time, or at least would be BEARABLE at least! So yeah, that's that!
Also don't hate me for all of this, I just want to have people TALK to one another again! And I just want this STUPID stuff being forced into comic's getting put out all the time to be GONE! So I guess you could say I'm for #Comicsgate, but really, I just want to have FREAKING HERO'S IN MY COMIC'S AGAIN! Also can I just also add that I HATE CIVIL WAR, BOTH of them in fact, the first one because it brought about One More Day (and I STILL hate it with a burning Passion! I wouldn't KILL Quesada mind you, I'd just write better stories than he EVER could, I'm not saying out of Ego, just plain fact's. You want Proof? Look up 'A Spider and A Specter' on Fanfiction.com, it's in the early stage's, but it's something I WANT to do and that I ENJOY! Which is more than what I can say for those who are writing in Marvel OR DC right now!) And the Second one was just Stupid. I mean, HOW THE FUCK DID THEY NOT THINK THAT GUY WHO WAS THE CAUSE OF IT ALL WAS ONLY LOOKING INTO ALTERNATE WORLD'S AND NOT THE FUTURE! It's just stupid, all of it is. So yeah, I just want to have people be DECENT to each other in all of this again, but no one care's about what I have to say, no one give's a fuck about me ONE BIT!
Just to be clear the problem with these new characters is that a lot of them lack any real depth or Heroic qualities. The writers spend more time promoting their "diversity" than what makes any of them great characters. Quite a few of them aren't good at all and it's due to a combination of bad writers and Marvel constantly spamming events and interrupting entire storylines before these characters can even get the chance to be developed or fleshed out. The worst part is how it seems more like we're told to respect and love these characters for their very existence alone. Marvel shitting on th Legacy of the characters that came before them doesn't exactly help either.
@@heyarnold7256 That's pretty much what I'm asking for, if your going to have new Hero''s then give the reader's a REASON to like them and WANT to read about their stories BESIDE'S the fact that they are 'Diverse' as it where. And yeah I don't like the fact that some of them could be REALLY good, but the writer's involved RUIN them as a whole, take Ms Marvel for instance (The Teen Inhuman one that is.) Now I would not mind having a character like her around, a Girl who is of Pakistani Descent and is Living in New Jersey is someone I would NOT mind, but with some of the Writer's they make her just seem so BAD, not as in making her seem more like a bad guy, but rather that she is written just BAD. And a good example of people not liking a character for the sole fact that they exist alone is America Chavez, pretty much NO ONE like her, even the people who she was meant to be a Target audience for, that being Lesbian's and Latin American's, I don't have an Issue with EITHER by the way. It's just that when a character who is meant to be written for a certain to be read by a specific Target Group fails to do so and is even regard as a poor message by said group. Then your writing staff need's to be cleaned out and replaced with people who might be a better fit. A good example is Miles Morales, when I first heard of him I had no issue with the fact that he was some Black kid, I was more so upset that they had to kill off Peter Parker to make way for him. I mean really? REALLY! Who think's it's a good idea to get rid of a version of a character who has been known by people for DECADE'S with a nobody by KILLING THEM OFF?! But I must make it clear I had no issue with Miles at all, I understand that him seeing Peter Die was a big reason why he chose to become Spider-Man, but there are other way's of handling the issue and Marvel has done so in the past. A good example of how to have a New person fill the role of an older Hero and doing it RIGHT is Spider-Girl (And NO I am NOT talking about what version we got from Spider-Verse onward's, I mean the one from before all that!) And if none of you are sure about that let's list off what it does with the whole legacy Concept...
1. The Main Character: Being that May 'Mayday' Parker is the daughter of Peter and Mary Jane Parker it mean's she has a fair bit to deal with, from the fact that she has her Dad's smart's and her Mom's Look's making her be the attention of a number of people at school (and not always for the better mind you), to the issue of having to deal with being a High School Student, a Super heroine, AND having to deal with Infamous 'Parker Luck' that her Dad had to deal with and her Mom had to accept when she choose to be with him, it makes her feel rather 'Real' in that while it is VERY much so a Superhero Story. It's also a story of what it's like growing up in a family who's member(s) include people who where known for doing great thing's and how it is trying to make your own mark on the world and stand out on your own instead of being the kid of 'that guy' also helped by the fact the O.G. Writer of Spider-Girl was using real life experience with regard's to his own Daughter wanting to join to Police. It REALLY made it feel more in depth because of that element.
2. The 'Old' Hero ISN'T DEAD: One thing that I dislike of how it is with legacy hero's today rather than before is how often the writer's think killing the old one off will make it seem 'better' for the new one to show up (Note that when I say 'Killing' I don't mean they DIE persay, but for all intent's and purposes they are for the story's sake, if you've Read any Thor Book's, that's an example.) Now what Spider-Girl did was rather Smart, they kept Peter alive, have May be Spider-Girl while her Dad acted as a mentor of sort's (after he accepted that she was going to do it no matter what, not unlike how he was when he wore the mask.) And the thing is, the main reason as to WHY Peter gave up the Mask was a wake-up call after his last fight with the Green Goblin (That and having his Foot getting replaced with a Prosthetic was another one) and had to choose to be a Father to his little Girl, or be a hero all the time and be there for his daughter when his Parker Luck allowed him too (Not saying that Little May wouldn't be able to deal with her Dad being a hero, in fact I think she'd think it would make her Dad even cooler! Even if she couldn't tell the other Kid's about it.) And afterward's the only reason why he DIDN'T just put on the old Suit and Mask and take up the Webshooter's was because she was doing TOO GOOD to need him too! Think about it for a moment. A Super Hero who has Retired end's up not going back in because the Protege does their Job so well the former hero has no real reason to do so without making it feel like overkill. And WHEN has that ever been a thing since? And No Batman Beyond doesn't count (Even if I LOVED the show) because Bruce was Too Old at that point to really be Batman and NEEDED a Replacement.
I was trying to think up a Third one to go along with all of this, but I think I might drag it on longer than needed, but I think you all get the point of what I mean, have the new Hero's be WORTH reading on, and DON'T treat the old one's like Crap (My Eye's are on you bastard's, you know who you all and the rest of you know what I mean, and if not, then just ask around, you'll figure out what I mean.) So yeah, any thought's? And BE CONSTRUCTIVE with your Criticism, if you only want to troll, or try to piss me off, then you won't get anything out of me.
Personally I would prefer to have young characters who are more new, because while having a young reiteration of a classic super hero can be an interesting new take, young characters are the perfect way to introduce new staple characters, which freshens up new comics
Thanks for having me! Pleasure working with you. :)
Wouldn't you want to know comic boy.
Hello drake
Oh boy is the Anime world so the opposite, with fans constantly complaining about how all shows seem to be set in High School no matter the premise.
Well how are we going to figure out who is the best Beyblader, Yu-Gi-Oh dueler, Pokemon master, Shaman King, or best superhero in the world if we don't start searching in high school? Maybe the One Piece treasure is hidden in a pirate high school somewhere too!
yes and then Boruto came along and is just a bad money grab or seems like it, heard the Manga is better though.
@@EldritchMage3922 la verdad decir que el manga de boruto es mejor que el anime no tiene nada de merito
@@EldritchMage3922 dismissing it as a cash grab is definitely the right thing to do. Let's definitely not think for more then 5 seconds how it is building off the original in cool ways.
It's cuz in Japan life ends at 18 (when people there graduate high school and are forever sorted into the role of overworked corporate husk or depressed unemployed pariah) so it makes sense to have these stories be set during the one point in life when you can actually go on any sort of wild adventures.
I agree with nearly all of the points made in this video but the sad truth is that both companies rarely grow these new heroes enough room to grow and develop. Just when you're really getting their latest arc that's fleshing out their character, BOOM! They get derailed or swallowed up by the company-wide super-event of that month.
That's very true unfortunately. I think a good counter-example for that is Duke Thomas over in DC right now. Scott Snyder has done a great job slowly introducing him and giving him his own heroic personal, The Signal. I'm excited to see what happens to him over the next few years.
And that's the difference between classic young heroes and new young heroes. The popular characters Trump everything and any book could get killed because an event happens. This didn't used to happen, not til the mid eighties to mid nineties, hence why so many classic young heroes had the staying power modern young heroes lack - they had room to breathe that modern B/C-tier books lack. If the event could go away for a little while it'd do a world of good for comics as a whole.
a lot of things were overlooked in this video. race was a Huge factor in the backlash characters like miles and Kamala faced and squirrel girl defeating huge villans like Galactus is a running gag.
Agreed. They fail to distinguish between well received runs like most of Young Avengers and the (ORIGINAL) Miles Morales run, and poorly received runs like anything with Riri Williams and the (RECENT) Squirrel Girl run (the latter of which is basically just a bad run for a good character). They're looking at the past with rose colored glasses and ignoring all the failed experiments, the characters who never lived up to the hype and were forgotten. All they're doing is harping on the good aspects of comics of the past while ignoring all their failures.
EDIT: I just fixed a typo. It would've bugged me otherwise.
@@glitchygear9453 yeah true like the riri Williams iron man run was just poorly written and n so was the Sam Alexander nova run. and champions as both a book and a team felt.largely unearned considering how many good young heroes existed in books like young avengers and avengers academy not to mention a slew of great young x men
The problem is almost all of the old characters are white males, because that was the expected thing back then. The non-white maleness of the new characters is an attempt to balance the scales and appeal to a wider audience. But that heavy thumb on the scale to balance things certainly calls attention to itself and leads people cloaked by the pseudo-anonymity of the internet to complain about it. Obviously the scales need to be balanced, but care needs to be taken to make the transition seem organic and not forced.
True, I personally find the whole Galactus defeat thing stupid as hell.
@@tomleonard830 why do the scales "obviously need to be balanced" sounds like you are too obsessed with race to me, the scales don't need to be changed at all. sure if you have an idea thats cool for another character make them non-white, but saying the characters need to be balanced results in poorly written and thoughtout ideas. don't demand new characters for racial reasons (which is what balanceing the scales is), because its racist and patrionising. use new character ideas first, and then maybe make them 'non-white'
I wish younger characters like the many examples presented in the video had their own identity from the start. Problem is trying bring attention to them unless they are tied to other characters. Establishing them into the universe before leading to an arc focused around them or at least involving them is a start.
Great stuff! I think Kamala and Miles are 2 of the best additions to comics in recent years. Great work highlighting what makes them important.
Thanks a lot, Matt!
Just watched comic drakes video! That was awesome and I’m sure this is going to be too!
Amen! So I admit I was skeptical about Miles Morales, then I actually READ the story and loved the character.
I don't mind new characters, diverse or otherwise, as long as they are not forced with any ideological agenda. And I tend to see that the seamless fits are the ones that are well written and given time to bloom. That's why I loved Kamala Khan and Miles Morales' characters when they were introduced; but not so much with Riri Williams. Although the new iron heart series seems better. Also the New 52 was hard to digest when they did an overhaul. There have been drastic diverse changes there that might have irked fans (including me) even more, but thankfully good writing in the most part saved the day!
It’s great that young homicidal maniacs have Damien to look up to.
I don’t think superheroes have to be “relatable”. They just have to be their own people.
Hyun Dong Lee isn’t Deadpool popular?
@@pn2294 don't forget Moon Knight. He's definitely a few nuts shy of a full can, or the Creeper.
Umm.......I haven't watched the video all the way through, but I don't think people were angry because they are young. It's mostly because people think that the character only exist for some sort of social problem (i.e being black, Muslim, feminism,and all that)
Characters exist to solve problems, so when people complain about new characters being created to fill story telling needs they're just showing their lack of understanding about media and entertainment in general. Superman was created by two young jews who wanted an icon to admire in a dark time. No one was complaining about heroes being created for some social problem then, and yet when it happens now, it's the end of the world.
All just my opinion of course.
@@RickNazden I think it's more so the issue that the new hero's come off more as poorly written Author Avatar's (Beside's being at MANY time's being Poorly Written either way) and the fact of how many of social 'Problem's' (The Quotation mark's are VERY Important) are in fact non-issue's, or at the very least, PALE in comparison to the larger problems facing us as a SPECIE'S Like how we don't have an effective mean's of Renewable Resource's (on the sole Premise that what we use now WILL run out at some point.) Or if that's to big for your mind's to handle, how about the fact that the U.S. is having a MAJOR Drug use Outbreak right now and have only RECENTLY begun having ad's showing the issue on the surface, needless to say. There are bigger Problem's we need to focus on, and thing's about Gender and Race and all of those thing's are NOT those Bigger Problem's. I think it's best summed up in that I want the World to be in a state that future Generation's can WORK with and LIVE upon, not Barely SURVIVE on trying to get the next scrap to live for the day. If we just got our PRIORITIES Straightened out on what we REALLY need to do, rather than what everyone THINK'S we need to do. We could have a world where the ability to live is at a point that we can manage and PERHAPS at that point THEN we could have people TALK about these thing's, although by that point I think people then will see these thing's as non issue's altogether and view them as waste's of time and effort and look back on our time and shake their heads in disbelief on what we thought was more important that making sure we could ACTUALLY LIVE on this Planet. But that's my two cent's on this. TL:DR current thing's aren't being dealt with Tact and to many just sound stupid when they are shown in comic's.
@Ranger Dimitri
The issue is that more often than not is that nowadays they are not characters. They are the walking manifestation of the thing they are suppose to represent and nothing else.
America is hispanic and a lesbian. That was her whole character in her run.
Iceman is gay now. That's literally his whole character in his run.
Riri is black. That's basically her whole character in her first run. Got fixed in her new run though. So kudos.
Miles is fine because he is not black, he is not hispanic, he is not a walking checkmark in a diversity list. Miles is Miles first and foremost.
@@Magnet_Chaos EXACTLY! That is what annoy's me the most about any new 'hero's' that come out these day's, aside from Miles, NOBODY has anything that define's them other than some surface level trait like 'oh, he's gay!' or 'She's a hispanic lesbian!' but here's the thing, I'd have no real issue with any one like that for real at all. I don't have anything agianst people who happen to be of a differnt Race or Religion or prefence or whatever! But if you are making a character for a story, that people are meant to read and enjoy, and the only thing you can come up with is a litteraly One-Note bland as all hell cardboard cutout. Then I have to question who the hell thought you would be a decent writer and who taught you how to write professianly? The teacher's I had in HIGH SCHOOL would find these 'character's' to be needing work done on them and to be looked over and the person who made them to be taking extra lession's on how to be a writer! No wounder Manga is killing Amercian Comic's as a whole these day's, at least the one's writing those book's have an idea on what people want from their cast of character's...
EXACTLY!!!!
sidekicks and younger heroes also give a sense of time to the universe. To give an example Batman has been in his ~40sish since basically the beginning while Dick Grayson started in his early teens and is now in his mid-late 20s. Sure the fact batman has barely if at all aged makes no sense but the ability to grow up with the sidekick and younger heroes is an awesome thing that seems to be increasingly not a thing.
It's because Batman is our dad and Robin is the reader. The readers have gotten older, but our ideal image of our dad remains from our school years, before we moved out on our own.
For one, Dick was not in his early teens - that was only in the new 52 when over 40 years of comic canon got compressed to over 5 years. It was funny to see Batman go through 4 Robins in 5 years 😂 In every other continuity, Dick creates his Robin mantle between 8-10 years of age.
@@anitak3985 I was going by the All star batman and robin timeline (god that story was just stupid). I wasn't sure what dick's age was when he was first introduced. 8-10 actually gives more of a sense of time. Side note: dc, NO, just pretend like you never said that batman went through 4+ sidekicks in five years, that's just too dumb.
I like Batman being ageless, what's wrong with that?
Batman's in his late twenties/early thirties when he takes on Dick. He started as Batman at 25 and wasn't doing it very long before Robin started
I read the first few issues/volume 1 of Ms.Marvel. It's ok and I eventually plan on finding vol.2 but I'm not going out of my way to find it. I would love to read the Miles Morales Spiderman run and look forward to the animated Spiderman film.
2:02 Damian saying "You know I had to do it to 'em"
>captain marvel
>fan favorite
Yeah, no.
"These heroes exist solely for diversity"
Man you deserve more subs ( i swear I’m not like bating)
Wow thanks for highlighting
Eyyy congrats on collabing with comic drake and this was a great video.
Here from comic drake
Glad to see 2 of my fav channels working together!
My usual comics-buying habits tend to stay well outside the realm of "young" lead characters, but with the breakout success of Kamala and Miles, I might make an exception sooner than I normally would. At this moment, I mainly read the DC Walmart books, one of which does make a special focus on young heroes. Shockingly enough, the main "Teen Titans" features are not my favorite part of that book. Rather, those would be "Super Sons" and "Sideways." Damian Wayne and Jon Kent might technically fit the sidekick role more, but their petty arguments and slightly abusive relationship have brought new life to the "World's Finest" double act in ways their dads haven't been in decades, maybe ever sometimes. As for Sideways, he's a bit of a harder pill for me to swallow, but he's still interesting enough that I'm giving him a chance to truly impress me someday. It certainly helps that he's basically Peter Parker from "Ultimate Spider-Man" with a different power set and a lot more responsibility to live up to. That does make him extremely derivative, yet still with a bit of something DC has historically lacked, outside of maybe Jaime Reyes' Blue Beetle. Oh, and Static, but I'm pretty sure they've never really talked about Vergil's high school problems in modern continuity, have they?
The Super Sons books were incredible and I can't wait to see where those characters go next. Check out my SUper Sons video if you haven't yet because I agree that they are the new "World's Finest" duo!
Will do! Incidentally, I'm sure you likely give it a brief mention in the video, but the original "Super Sons" feature from the 70s sort of anticipates the present incarnation in a roundabout fashion. Both involve the sons of Supes and Bats traveling around the country (maybe a bit less so in Damien and Jon's case) and dealing with issues of presumable interest to the young audience.
I love the Super Sons comics for that reason too.
Personally, everything that Miss Marvel does, guenpool does better.
Fantastic video, I've always had a soft spot for young teenage heroes even after I've ceased to be young teenager
So you're just going to ignore race, religion, and gender when talking about Riri Kamala and Miles? It was _just_ their age that caused backlash. OK. You failed to distinguish what made successful young hero runs and what made terrible ones.
I couldn't agree more, lovely video! This video inspired me with a great idea!
That's fantastic! Can't wait to see it come to fruition
i'm glad you made this video!! i really fell in love with kamala khan and miles as characters since they were around my age and truly were my gateway into comics ,young avengers was also a great read , while its important to know the history ,new things needs to be added in order to bring in fans and fresh stories otherwise you'll end up in a rut
Thanks for watching! Glad these characters are resonating with you so much
R.I.P. Stan Lee
I personally like the idea of young heroes because I like it when comic book characters actually age which is a huge problem comics have. What people hate though is when a new character shows up that outshines a existing hero.
Look man create as many young heroes as you want.
But for the love of God get someone who can write them well.
Miles and Kamala are fine. But in the on the other side of the spectrum we had America and Nadia.
I don't have an issue with them being young, I have an issue with them cause they are poorly writing.
God breat stan lee's soul man. "At the very least people would talk" 😂
I'm here, because of Comic Drake. That was a good video, you now have a new subscriber.
Thanks!
i'm really really loving the new run on Champions, i read it from the start but from #19 onwards it gives me the feel teen titans used to when i was a kid and i've become attached to most of their stories, going as far as tracking down their debut titles and previous solo stories. would be a wonderful addition to the animation side of marvel or the mcu.
Yeah hated the initial issues of Champions as they felt too cartoonishly SJW, but picked it up again from #19 and I really like it now!
Just watched Drake’s vídeo and came to watch yours. Congrats, man! #subscribed
I have no problem with building out the universe and creating new young heroes. But they can't be as good as the more seasoned heroes because we need to see them develop, they need to be either otherwise decent superheroes in their own right or a good apprentice, and they can't replace an old hero until we've seen them grow into that role. Ms. Marvel really just took up one of the many names Carol dropped and Miles was given time to develop in an alternate continuity. New characters take time to find a fanbase no matter what their age.
People said that they think the new characters is promoting sjw's. It's not just young characters.
I'm actually surprised they included Jane Thor as a young character... She's a woman in her late 30s with cancer. Now I like the character and agree she's over-hated but also don't understand why she's being grouped in as a young character.
@@glitchygear9453 I think they just grouped the characters that were hated tge most, together . I guess they realized that half of those characters are children
Fantastic video! Really interesting stuff 👍🏼
The unfortunate thing about characters like this nowadays is that they're no longer allowed to grow alongside their fans anymore, they just get sidelined in favor of the adult heroes
Would be great if Marvel or DC bought Danny Phantom,Generator Rex,Kim Possible and Ben 10 because those four are teenage I watch when I was in elementary School, Middle School and High School!
It wouldn't mesh with their stories, but I'd love to see them form a mini universe of their own.
Dude what????
DC hates younger superheroes. DC has a roster of legacy characters that have proven equal, if not better than, their mentors but DC has failed to provide decent stories for them and instead have killed off a handful recently. DC's Titans are the best examples of great legacy characters that the company is fridging just so that the original superheroes continue to be their sprightly self. The current Teen Titans roster is just the same old Titans roster with new faces under old mantles.
It's because the suits at WB are terrified of losing the "Trinity money". During the 80's-90's they did begin to pass mantles on to younger characters (most notably Wally West and Connor Hawk), but the suits got cold feet during the mid 90's comic crash and never really recovered mentally
Thanks for the heads up,i will avoid new warriors like the plague. Also never thought i would see Marvel dig itself deeper and deeper with bad practices.
@Hyun Dong Lee
Hire writers that aren't particularly talented or interested in writing comics and doing so because they are gay( like they did in ice man) or a black woman (iron heart). Subcontracting idw for comic lines they could do themselves.
Continuing to publish stories that didnt sell the first time with the exact same writers for a second run such as
Unstoppable wasp, and squirrel girl, and America Chavez.
@Hyun Dong Lee things get over-hated because of political reasons. People who praise the book as gospel and ignore criticisms as "racist" or whatever are being just as shallow and political as Comicsgate. I say, ignore both sides and just form your own opinions on your own time. I think that once you do, you'll start disagreeing with both the fanboys and the comicsgaters... Both of which are being equal parts driven by shallow emotion.
@Hyun Dong Lee for an idea of good work look at Marvel stories from the 60's or DC stories from the 70's, which are often viewed as the companies respective golden eras. In particular the Ditco run of Spiderman, or O'Neal's Batman, or Green Arrow runs. As a general rule of thumb a story based on full characterization and universal themes will be a much better story than one based on "I am ______, hear rawr" and personal politics. The failure of "all new marvel" was that they allowed several writers with very specific ideologies absolute free reign to write comics based solely on those ideologies without regard to the core readership. It did not help that many of these stories, in addition to being very preachy, were very poorly written as the writers shared a postmodernist philosophy that there is no objective standard by which to judge anything, therefor all criticism of those stories was because of a bias against either the authors particular "dao". This is what created the whole "comicsgate" idiocy.
Social issues can be done in comics but ultimately must be well written & well rounded to be accepted. Look at Northstar as opposed to turning Iceman gay. One was well thought out and a rounded effort at creating a gay character the other was "look we have gay characters".
The newer Marvel writers also don't seem to understand that attacking your critics is only going to lose you readership, and that biting the hand that feeds you never ends well.
Derek James as Sideways. GET ME MORE OF HIM!
Thriving *puts clip of titans in background *
Awesome video man keep it up!!
Honestly,EVERYTHING in this video is true! but you missed something. Just imagine seeing a 10 year old uses psychic powers like telekinesis on a villain (yes this is an OC of mine)
I love that DC comics have a sense of legacy. And young heroes growing up and becoming heroes and passing down the legacy to the next generation is exactly how that works. The problem is that because Bruce and Clark are SO iconic to people outside of comics, they are not allowed to grow old and pass down that legacy (except in future or elseworld stories). They can have sidekicks, who go on to be heroes in their own right (and even have their own sidekicks), but the insistence that Bruce is Batman and Clark is Superman prevents a true passing on of the legacy. They try to fix this by doing reboots every so often, but this ticks off the people who like that legacy, so the continuity of the reboot timeline is fudged bit by bit until it is so convoluted that another reboot is called for. If on the other hand, they allowed the marquee characters to get old and pass on the mantle, then the reboots would not be necessary.
I like Bruce and Clark being timeless, fuck legacy bullshit, that can work for characters like Wolverine but not th see amazing icons....Yes I have problems, I know.
As a lifelong DC fan (Batman in particular) I would love to see him pass the cowl to Dick. The idea that the DCU has history and a future is what drew me to them over Marvel and it's eternal "now". It's a world not only with active current heroes, but also the heroes of yesterday who've retired and tomorrow's heroes learning their trade with both older generations. The early Wally West run of the Flash when he first has to accept the loss of Barry is some of the best character work from the eighties. Also aging out heroes helps prevent the mess of things like New 52 or Marvel's general shitshow
This is a great video man. But I am sorry some of these comments are so fucking bad, they make want pull my hair out.
Your voice is so deep you almost got me to cry
Well... thanks
I love Damian Wayne. He is my favourite.
Anyone know where the Batman pic at 5:40 is from? I'd like to find a higher resolution since it looks to be drawn beautifully :)
It's one of Michael Turner's covers for Identity Crisis.
its funny how manga and comics have an opposite problem from each other. Anime overuses the 14-16 year old troupe so much that they have a entire genre for it.
anyways this video helped. Im making a series and was thinking of doing an adult but ill make the mc a teen now
Bro, just stop right there! We can all agree that Miles is great, but Kamala Khan and Riri? GTFO! No one rejects those characters because they're Muslim, or female, or black. We reject them because they're written like shit by YA novel writers pushing their far left political propaganda. Marvel wants you to like Khan BECAUSE she's a female Muslim. Marvel wants you to like Riri BECAUSE she's a black female. We wouldn't even care that they took the place of highly beloved legacy characters IF they were built up to it over about 2-3 years of development, and if they were written with character traits that go beyond their surface features like their gender or religion. And as for showing the pic of Captain Marvel and Spider-Man when you said "fan favorite characters"..........Spider-Man: YES!, Carol Danvers: LOL, No. And she's never going to be the way Marvel has been pushing her. Carol Danvers is the Roman Reigns of comics. Don't even try and group us all together as hypocrites because we latched onto Teen Titans but we rejected Riri, Amadeus Cho and X-23. We latched onto the Titans characters because they were developed into actual characters, not just Leftist propaganda caricatures. When a new character (Riri) checks off all but one of the qualities that indicates a person is a psychopath, we can't (and won't) accept them as a hero. Riri should be made into the villain that she was meant to be. We ALL know in our heart of hearts that Marvel did all their replacement characters as part of their SJW agenda. Don't even try and pretend it's anything else. And the sales numbers back up everything I'm saying. If we were all racists and/or sexists, Flash, Teen Titans, and Titans in the Rebirth line wouldn't have been received so well, and sold so well because of how many diverse characters it features. Yes, we love young heroes and we DO need them. But, they need to be well written characters that are more than just their surface traits. Leave the political propaganda at home, please.
5 year period, sorta.
New warriors was amazing back in the day.
Good job 👍
Beautiful
Eee
I don't think we can gloss over the complaints of diversity hires quite so quickly and throw them away because they came to soon. There's no way a character so flawed could be later revealed as a rash decision or something. A complaint of " he's to silly" may later prove untrue or the character may evolve but a complaint of "why throw an X type of character in there randomly?" Is either true or false and it's very unlikely that'll change
Dude I love Damian Wayne that thumbnail had to make me click
EDIT: I love all my homies tbh
I 100% agree, New characters are very useful additiins. Love them or hate them, they deserve time to grow & see how folks like them with time. Just my humble opiniin.
I like duke Thomas
Same here, I'm very excited to see what his future has in store. Haven't checked out The Signal's solo series yet though, have you?
Another fantastic video, keep up the brilliant work
0:39 what episode and series is this from?
"the need for young superheroes" means the desire for underage violence. Aint it?
I find it funny how that article says that fans are angry about iron man being a black girl, but not for the reason you think, because it is exactly for the reason you think. It's because she's black and a woman. Racist and sexist comic book fans have been around for years and any time someone who isn't a white man is introduced in comics they get pissed.
I mean they do exist but there are other reasons to dislike riri beyond her race and sex
You seem to really underestimate how deep the racism and sexism goes in comic book fans.
@@Auron1Roxas2 Auron1Roxas2 And you are treating comic book fans as a collective. You know what makes some one a comic book fan? They like to read comics. Are there bigoted comic book fans? Yeah of course they are, but thats not special to comic books. Besides, just because there are bigoted people who dislike riri does not mean that disliking riri makes you a bigot (there are valid complaints starting from how she was introduced and how the baton was passed). I mean from the instant you say you are gonna replace a main stay character, regardless of any descriptor people are gonna be mad. People were mad that wally took after Barry and he's a cis white male. People are now mad that Barry has taken over as the main flash as of the new 52. It's not always a bigoted thing
@@Auron1Roxas2 besides how many of those bigots are actual comic book fans or just window watchers getting mad?
@@Auron1Roxas2 and you greatly overestimate bigotry amongst comic fans. If it we're as you say characters such as Black Panther, Black Lightning, Static Shock, Northstar, Frank Choi(Blue Beetle), Cyborg and many, many other characters would never have lasted. You cheer when a poorly designed and badly written character is shoved down your throat and act as if they are the first and only character of that group in comics just because of their place in the victim hierarchy. Much of the nastiness from readers is a direct response to the name calling and rabid attacks like yours. Nastiness only begets nastiness and failed books in return.
Aged like milk graphic decription