The logic is simple once you figure out the right hardware configuration. Finding the right hardware setup when there are so many possibilities is the real trick. This is a lesson in the art of keeping it simple. Well done.
Totally agree on that one mick ^^ Actually your autofurnace build is the grandmother of this vid, because of you I made my own script, which elmotrix has translated into chip setup. Thx for that and please keep up your work. That goes for elmo and mick of course
Thx for mentioning me ^^ never thought you would make a chip version of my code. Either way, great work and just in time, for I wanna use your build in my stream in a few days 😉
So that everyone knows, this method DOESN'T work anymore. Don't try using the AC behind the tank. It will do nothing except ruin the hot and cold temperatures. I did the same thing they did here and it drained all the hot air into the cold air side and left the cold air extremely hot and not gain anything. The placement of things is also suboptimal.
This build is really good for use with your Furnace Controller 3 Pump and Furnace Library v4 scripts also. Simple to get going with the chips and then later you can upgrade to the 2 IC controllers, pretty nifty.
The first time I made each of the T2 alloys, I used no logic at all. I just had a fuel gas setup and was spinning the furnace dials by hand to eyeball ignition points. Worked pretty well... only blew myself up once, with Waspalloy, and that didn't even surprise me (I named the save right before the attempt "The Sting"). That said, I've yet to really automate an advanced furnace, because all of the automated ones I've looked up before were just...a bit too much to follow. This one, though... yeah, I'll give this a shot, I think, though I'll be using an IC10. Thank you for putting this up, and crediting the person who helped you with it.
If you want I could give you my autofurnace setup. As mentioned It's basically this chip version, but a tad better. And if you have questions I would be glad to answer them
This is a really simple, clean and elegant furnace setup that shows the principles of a P-controller which is very easy to follow. Would also be a really good starting video for those daunted by MIPS, as this would very nicely map to one or two ICs implementing the whole system. Well done!
if you want a more elegant touch, you could use another math unit that would multiply dials for pressure and temperature, then also have led panels that read those set points to show you see what it is set to
This doesn't work anymore with the new updates. Just a heads up to anyone trying to build it before you waste 3 hours trying to figure it out like I did.
Nicely done! I believe the word we are all looking for is: Elegant! This is a nice starter setup with room to tweak as you go. For example, the input pipe buffer would cause overshoots (hysteresis) and waste as it hunts around for the last fractions of deviation. I'm wondering whether a math unary "round" between the sub and div steps might be enough to stabilize it sooner. That's easier in IC10 but should be fun to tinker with.
If you're close enough to SetPoint that a round make any difference you're more or less already there. But it does have the same problems i outlined in my first furnace video (over a year ago when i referred to PID-controllers). It's gonna be "slow" dealing with low numbers, but if you try to speed it up more, it will get unstable on high numbers. But it's still a very decent controller and high value for the price :)
Well there are 3 things, speed, accuracy and afford. You can always only have one of these. Either it is fast, then it's inaccurate with low afford, or accurate with high afford. You won't get fast and accurate and low afford in one go.
@@Elmotrix On absolutely! I was more thinking about the lag between pressure/temp sampling, logic delays and the buffer leading overshoot/under/over/under/etc oscillation and causing wasted gas over an extended period of time. It probably doesn't matter and will surely settle soon enough. It's probably just an imagined issue anyway.
I know this is a bit late, but minor recommendation: change the "100" part to "scale". What I found in implementation is the pressures/temps overshoot by significantly less when this is run at "150". Yes, it's a bit slower to get to target, but it's less wasted energy. P.s. It's a lot easier to prime the system via your setup from the Europa GFG run and a good space saver is to put your furnace readers and scalers on the frame of the furnace. I haven't moved up to chips yet, but that's my next TODO.
I'm not sure if I did something wrong but the first batch of ores I smelted came out fine. My issue is, I try to idle it down when not in use to 100 pressure and 100 temperature. My Furnace wont drop below 1kpa pressure and 400k celcius and both my cooling line and my heating line just keep climbing in temps. Even after adding a few radiators (Europa outdoors) I can't get the cooling line to cool down. the cooling side is 200 celcius and the heat side is upwards of 10k celcius and still climbing. I have the air conditioner set at -200. Any help would be appreciated.
really nice build elmo tho later on i prefer your advanced build as ive merge that build into an alloy producing facility with mining rockets and silo containers this build is a blessing for early on until you get better stuff wich is an awsome addition for faster base setup cheers
btw might be because of new updates but the ( regular ) furnace ( for me only till now ) is only working as intended by setting ALL pumps to ( 1L ) else it does not budge at all tried on mars and europa worlds ( not vulcan or venus im way too bad at building fast XD ) if anyone is having difficulties with the cooling process slap some radiators on the cold pipe for ( mars-europa only ) and it cools much much faster cheers :)
Astonishing what can be done with just logic ICs .. also; very well explained ! I love turning the wheels and pushing the buttons on the advanced furnace myself though, so this setup is not for me ;=)
is this thing still relevant? with the changes made to the game it's hard to see this work. 1 load in the furnace and pipes were bursting left right and center. not to mention the AC unit can't handle cooling at all the way it's set up here... you can't just cool 1000 degreess of gas with 1 AC unit on -200.
So I've tried this setup several times now, and every time I do that center cross junction which has 3 volume pumps going into ALWAYS bursts and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong :(
Shure you can use logic or ic in combination with the furnace / advanced furnace. How ever you don't have to. I am using the advanced furnace for making all alloys. And never used clever logic to do so.
I was having problems blowing the 4 way pipe on the input side of the furnace. I read the comment about joining the input and output if using a basic furnace. I did so and now that pipe is no longer blowing up. Now I am having problems maintaining temperature. It just keeps cooling down.
Trying to use this and make solder, which was the whole reason i looked up a guide, constantly explodes. That max pressure 4 way pipe is what bursts and combusts. Is the iron frame THAT necessary? Feel unaesthetic.
great vid Elmo thank you, will the 2 setups here eventually get to max pressure for the pipes to handle with the amount of smelting that gets done? if so is it just a matter of adding a filter to the tank on the back to suck out the unwanted gasses?
Yes, eventually. But if you start kinda low pressure like i did here (5-10 mPa) i doubt you'll ever have any serious problem. Just keep it in the back of your mind.
Just letting a note here: Air conditioner behavior changed, you can not use it as shown anymore. It looses efficiency the greater the T difference on in and out.
One big improvement you could make is dividing the temperature by 10 instead of 100. If you have 100 kelvin difference, do you really want it pumping at 1%? That'll contribute a huge amount to it being slow. Personally i'm dividing pressure by 80 and temperature by 20 for faster results.
It seems like my air conditioner is only outputting gas slightly cooler than the input and so my coolant pipe keeps shooting up in temperature ( and pressure (: ), any ideas how to fix that? Great video!
@@Elmotrix hi man great video ! On the same topic: isn't there a risk to have the cold pipe over pressurised if you keep the a/c on for a long time ? Shouldn't it be a backup pressure valve instead ?
I think the thermodynamics update changed this layout, I think those one way valves shouldn't be there, I follow along with the layout, fill the cool side first but once I heat up the furnace and turn on the volume pump to empty the furnace into the waste tank then the cool side instantly warm up...
Nice setup. Just wondering why there is a need to divide pipe networks into multiples using an open valve. Is it just slightly more efficient that why or something ? Is it because of a quirk of the game physics engine ?
Hello, I'm a little fan of your videos. I recreated this project twice and always have problems with the temperature. The pressure is always super adjusted, but the temperature does not go over 1200k. What could it be? Greetings Sven
this isn't a build and forget system. it just does the fine tuning of the pumps for you. you got to manage the heat and pressure semi manually. right now it's getting easier though, just pump in a fuel mix on the hot side if you want to heat it quick.
This video ist STILL relevant to poor folks like me trying to understand logic and the implementation of P-controllers. I have adapted what you explain into an IC10 script to control two pumps for my input line into my main filtration. I have ONE question, though: WHY oh WHY do you divide by 100? Ist the 100 the maximum flow rate of the pump? (now pumps operate only at 10 Liters max) or is the 100 value related to something else? That is the only thing I cannot wrap my poor head around.... Thanks :)
It's the Kp gain. But at the time there was a bug that blocked me from typing in decimal point. So instead of multiplying with 0.01, i divide by 100 😉 It's not related to pump capacity. It's simply to translate big sensor numbers (pressure) into low actuator (pump) numbers.
@@Elmotrix Thank you for the explainer - I am VERY uncomfortable with anything logic but I do my best to learn from you guys. So! How do I approach a good value? What are the rules of thumb? Let's say I want to make sure that pumps do not exceed a pressure limit of 48.000Pa in a pipe network to prevent creaking? Pressure can vary rapidly due to the pipe network low volume and filtration units doing their thing. The smaller the Kp gain number the finer the throttle? So, at 0.01 the pump will throttle more aggressively than at 0.001? How does one guesstimate a good value for that setting?
@@wowailyich615 you can guesstimate by considering how far away from setpoint should the sensor reading be for the actuator to go full throttle. i.e say that 200 kPa off setpoint i want my pump to go to full 10 L, then Kp = 10/200 = 0.05, then adjust from there.
When I got up to 37:00 in the video, I went to set the pressure low and it started to slowly rise in pressure. I tried turning the heat down and nothing happened besides all my cold air went up to a few hundred degrees. I'm not sure what happened. I followed every step in the video perfectly
I didn't understand very well either. How to prevent the hot gas passing through the "on way valve" to heat up all the gas that should be cold? the air conditioning can't handle the bump in my build. I would like a video about other gas cooling/heating options and if there is a way to do it without using the "one ways valves". I want to make a system using dials, all the operation being done manually! I think it's just me but I like to do that in this game. Leaving everything automated takes some of the fun out of me.
The logic is simple once you figure out the right hardware configuration. Finding the right hardware setup when there are so many possibilities is the real trick. This is a lesson in the art of keeping it simple. Well done.
Totally agree on that one mick ^^
Actually your autofurnace build is the grandmother of this vid, because of you I made my own script, which elmotrix has translated into chip setup. Thx for that and please keep up your work. That goes for elmo and mick of course
Thx for mentioning me ^^ never thought you would make a chip version of my code. Either way, great work and just in time, for I wanna use your build in my stream in a few days 😉
So that everyone knows, this method DOESN'T work anymore. Don't try using the AC behind the tank. It will do nothing except ruin the hot and cold temperatures. I did the same thing they did here and it drained all the hot air into the cold air side and left the cold air extremely hot and not gain anything. The placement of things is also suboptimal.
This build is really good for use with your Furnace Controller 3 Pump and Furnace Library v4 scripts also. Simple to get going with the chips and then later you can upgrade to the 2 IC controllers, pretty nifty.
The first time I made each of the T2 alloys, I used no logic at all. I just had a fuel gas setup and was spinning the furnace dials by hand to eyeball ignition points. Worked pretty well... only blew myself up once, with Waspalloy, and that didn't even surprise me (I named the save right before the attempt "The Sting").
That said, I've yet to really automate an advanced furnace, because all of the automated ones I've looked up before were just...a bit too much to follow. This one, though... yeah, I'll give this a shot, I think, though I'll be using an IC10.
Thank you for putting this up, and crediting the person who helped you with it.
If you want I could give you my autofurnace setup. As mentioned It's basically this chip version, but a tad better. And if you have questions I would be glad to answer them
@@rev2632 Absolutely! I'd love to see it.
@@asureaskie in that case please DM me in discord, my username should be easy to find
This is a really simple, clean and elegant furnace setup that shows the principles of a P-controller which is very easy to follow. Would also be a really good starting video for those daunted by MIPS, as this would very nicely map to one or two ICs implementing the whole system. Well done!
Great Job on showing the process for new players. Would say this is a required video for anyone wanting to play this game
I started playing again recently after like 1,5 years, so this was very helpfull to re-learn the basics with new stuff. Thanks
I have been blowing my furnace up constantly trying to make these alloys you have saved this entire game for me lol thanks
Same i keep blowing up mine when i want the right temp for other alloy
This, actually, gave me better understanding of PID than orininal PID video ))) Nice work!
if you want a more elegant touch, you could use another math unit that would multiply dials for pressure and temperature, then also have led panels that read those set points to show you see what it is set to
Great, this is my favorite setup from early to mid game now.
This doesn't work anymore with the new updates. Just a heads up to anyone trying to build it before you waste 3 hours trying to figure it out like I did.
logic part still works
Nicely done! I believe the word we are all looking for is: Elegant!
This is a nice starter setup with room to tweak as you go. For example, the input pipe buffer would cause overshoots (hysteresis) and waste as it hunts around for the last fractions of deviation. I'm wondering whether a math unary "round" between the sub and div steps might be enough to stabilize it sooner. That's easier in IC10 but should be fun to tinker with.
If you're close enough to SetPoint that a round make any difference you're more or less already there. But it does have the same problems i outlined in my first furnace video (over a year ago when i referred to PID-controllers). It's gonna be "slow" dealing with low numbers, but if you try to speed it up more, it will get unstable on high numbers.
But it's still a very decent controller and high value for the price :)
Well there are 3 things, speed, accuracy and afford. You can always only have one of these.
Either it is fast, then it's inaccurate with low afford, or accurate with high afford. You won't get fast and accurate and low afford in one go.
@@Elmotrix On absolutely! I was more thinking about the lag between pressure/temp sampling, logic delays and the buffer leading overshoot/under/over/under/etc oscillation and causing wasted gas over an extended period of time. It probably doesn't matter and will surely settle soon enough. It's probably just an imagined issue anyway.
i got confused wen u say "use ur brain" . lost the track after this XD
I know this is a bit late, but minor recommendation: change the "100" part to "scale". What I found in implementation is the pressures/temps overshoot by significantly less when this is run at "150". Yes, it's a bit slower to get to target, but it's less wasted energy.
P.s. It's a lot easier to prime the system via your setup from the Europa GFG run and a good space saver is to put your furnace readers and scalers on the frame of the furnace. I haven't moved up to chips yet, but that's my next TODO.
the perfect scaling factor (Kp) is highly dependant on what temp/pressure you have in the pipes. but the logic on the frames is a good idea :)
I copied this exactly and it kept blowing up after doing second run of volatiles
I'm not sure if I did something wrong but the first batch of ores I smelted came out fine. My issue is, I try to idle it down when not in use to 100 pressure and 100 temperature. My Furnace wont drop below 1kpa pressure and 400k celcius and both my cooling line and my heating line just keep climbing in temps. Even after adding a few radiators (Europa outdoors) I can't get the cooling line to cool down. the cooling side is 200 celcius and the heat side is upwards of 10k celcius and still climbing. I have the air conditioner set at -200. Any help would be appreciated.
really nice build elmo tho later on i prefer your advanced build as ive merge that build into an alloy producing facility with mining rockets and silo containers this build is a blessing for early on until you get better stuff wich is an awsome addition for faster base setup cheers
btw might be because of new updates but the ( regular ) furnace ( for me only till now ) is only working as intended by setting ALL pumps to ( 1L ) else it does not budge at all tried on mars and europa worlds ( not vulcan or venus im way too bad at building fast XD ) if anyone is having difficulties with the cooling process slap some radiators on the cold pipe for ( mars-europa only ) and it cools much much faster cheers :)
Astonishing what can be done with just logic ICs .. also; very well explained ! I love turning the wheels and pushing the buttons on the advanced furnace myself though, so this setup is not for me ;=)
Hooray
is this thing still relevant? with the changes made to the game it's hard to see this work.
1 load in the furnace and pipes were bursting left right and center. not to mention the AC unit can't handle cooling at all the way it's set up here... you can't just cool 1000 degreess of gas with 1 AC unit on -200.
So I've tried this setup several times now, and every time I do that center cross junction which has 3 volume pumps going into ALWAYS bursts and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong :(
lovely work 💖
Shure you can use logic or ic in combination with the furnace / advanced furnace.
How ever you don't have to. I am using the advanced furnace for making all alloys.
And never used clever logic to do so.
Good for you 😊
@@Elmotrix thank you.
Stationeers can be hard for newer players.
My comment was not a critique on you're setup. I think it's a superb one.
I was having problems blowing the 4 way pipe on the input side of the furnace. I read the comment about joining the input and output if using a basic furnace. I did so and now that pipe is no longer blowing up. Now I am having problems maintaining temperature. It just keeps cooling down.
Trying to use this and make solder, which was the whole reason i looked up a guide, constantly explodes. That max pressure 4 way pipe is what bursts and combusts. Is the iron frame THAT necessary? Feel unaesthetic.
if you're using the basic furnace you can connect the input and output pipe together. that'll help
Someone explain the aversion to using the IC10 when there are numerous scripts for everything easily available on Steam and other sites?
great vid Elmo thank you, will the 2 setups here eventually get to max pressure for the pipes to handle with the amount of smelting that gets done? if so is it just a matter of adding a filter to the tank on the back to suck out the unwanted gasses?
Yes, eventually. But if you start kinda low pressure like i did here (5-10 mPa) i doubt you'll ever have any serious problem. Just keep it in the back of your mind.
@@Elmotrix gotcha thank you
Just letting a note here: Air conditioner behavior changed, you can not use it as shown anymore. It looses efficiency the greater the T difference on in and out.
Ah, I wondered what the issue was while I was trying to recreate this. Any chance you can chain a few A/C units?
Please add a note this don't work anymore after the AC changes. It is still is a great video.
Logic still works fine, and i have said that the AC trick is out of dates in multiple replies 😉
One big improvement you could make is dividing the temperature by 10 instead of 100. If you have 100 kelvin difference, do you really want it pumping at 1%? That'll contribute a huge amount to it being slow. Personally i'm dividing pressure by 80 and temperature by 20 for faster results.
You are right, tweek the numbers. But the best numbers heavily depends temperature and pressure in the pipes. 🙂 So have fun with them
It seems like my air conditioner is only outputting gas slightly cooler than the input and so my coolant pipe keeps shooting up in temperature ( and pressure (: ), any ideas how to fix that? Great video!
they changed the aircondition. you can use a mounted portable AC, or just get hot/cold gas by any other means.
I'm having problems solar tracking the sun on the Moon and Mars any tips ?
i haven't done solar tracking since 2018, so wouldn't know. sorry.
Thank you for this! I’m curious what the purpose of the one way valve on waste to cooling. Would this not put hot waste into the cooler line?
Cold side stays higher pressure mostly. Easy way to keep it pressurized
@@Elmotrix hi man great video ! On the same topic: isn't there a risk to have the cold pipe over pressurised if you keep the a/c on for a long time ? Shouldn't it be a backup pressure valve instead ?
Question: What is the purpose of "Splitting up the pipe network" with the valves?
In older versions, AC had an efficiency dependence on the length of the pipes, and if they were short enough, it become a quite powerful at cooling
@@tezariusko976 very interesting, thanks!
I think the thermodynamics update changed this layout, I think those one way valves shouldn't be there, I follow along with the layout, fill the cool side first but once I heat up the furnace and turn on the volume pump to empty the furnace into the waste tank then the cool side instantly warm up...
Oh ye totally, everything about the AC. But that was just a creative shortcut anyway.
While I try to make same setup my blue pipes keep exploding due to overpressure losing everything. Is this setup outdated in 2024?
the logic is still working. the trick with the AC is outdated. figure out another way to get hot/cold gases ;)
Great tutorial! After a while though my cold pipe got stuck with 380k and the furnace won’t cool down. The pressure is around 14Mpa.
Yep, that can happen. None of that logic deals with your pipe pressure / temperature , that's your job 😉
Nice setup. Just wondering why there is a need to divide pipe networks into multiples using an open valve. Is it just slightly more efficient that why or something ? Is it because of a quirk of the game physics engine ?
The valves are there to control the throughput of the AC 🙂
I try doing this but my A/C keeps dumping the hot air through the cold output efectivly making all my gas sit in my cold line
The AC trick doesn't work any more
Hello, I'm a little fan of your videos.
I recreated this project twice and always have problems with the temperature.
The pressure is always super adjusted,
but the temperature does not go over 1200k.
What could it be?
Greetings Sven
this isn't a build and forget system. it just does the fine tuning of the pumps for you. you got to manage the heat and pressure semi manually. right now it's getting easier though, just pump in a fuel mix on the hot side if you want to heat it quick.
Why can i not find this one way valve?
just roll your mouse to change form ball valve to one way valve.
This video ist STILL relevant to poor folks like me trying to understand logic and the implementation of P-controllers. I have adapted what you explain into an IC10 script to control two pumps for my input line into my main filtration. I have ONE question, though: WHY oh WHY do you divide by 100? Ist the 100 the maximum flow rate of the pump? (now pumps operate only at 10 Liters max) or is the 100 value related to something else? That is the only thing I cannot wrap my poor head around.... Thanks :)
It's the Kp gain. But at the time there was a bug that blocked me from typing in decimal point. So instead of multiplying with 0.01, i divide by 100 😉
It's not related to pump capacity. It's simply to translate big sensor numbers (pressure) into low actuator (pump) numbers.
@@Elmotrix Thank you for the explainer - I am VERY uncomfortable with anything logic but I do my best to learn from you guys. So! How do I approach a good value? What are the rules of thumb?
Let's say I want to make sure that pumps do not exceed a pressure limit of 48.000Pa in a pipe network to prevent creaking? Pressure can vary rapidly due to the pipe network low volume and filtration units doing their thing.
The smaller the Kp gain number the finer the throttle? So, at 0.01 the pump will throttle more aggressively than at 0.001?
How does one guesstimate a good value for that setting?
@@wowailyich615 you can guesstimate by considering how far away from setpoint should the sensor reading be for the actuator to go full throttle.
i.e say that 200 kPa off setpoint i want my pump to go to full 10 L, then Kp = 10/200 = 0.05, then adjust from there.
When I got up to 37:00 in the video, I went to set the pressure low and it started to slowly rise in pressure. I tried turning the heat down and nothing happened besides all my cold air went up to a few hundred degrees. I'm not sure what happened. I followed every step in the video perfectly
I didn't understand very well either. How to prevent the hot gas passing through the "on way valve" to heat up all the gas that should be cold? the air conditioning can't handle the bump in my build. I would like a video about other gas cooling/heating options and if there is a way to do it without using the "one ways valves". I want to make a system using dials, all the operation being done manually! I think it's just me but I like to do that in this game. Leaving everything automated takes some of the fun out of me.
With the changes to the ac unit not sure this will work anymore
the logic will, not the AC part :)
@@Elmotrix true. Any suggestions on what to replace the ac unit with?
@@shanemalinak2099 cold side can be atmosphere on most planets.
hot side can just be pre-combusted fuel
is this still applicable to the current game?
Not all of it, but logic works fine
Does this still work?
The logic, yes. But not the AC hack
Still working in May 2023?
The logic ye. Not the AC trick
I am the first