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Jimmy Akin vs James White: Sola Scriptura
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- This debate was held at First Baptist Church of Livingston, Louisiana, April 24, 2024
0:00 - Introduction
0:40 - James White Opening Statement
15:25 - Jimmy Akin Opening Statement
31:12 - James White First Rebuttal
38:15 - Jimmy Akin First Rebuttal
45:29 - James White Second Rebuttal
49:35 - Jimmy Akin Second Rebuttal
54:46 - James White Cross-examination
1:05:37 - Jimmy Akin Cross-examination
1:16:19 - Audience Questions
1:46:54 - James White Closing Statement
1:51:59 - Jimmy Akin Closing Statement
I'm a protestant, and I have been thinking deeply about these issues. I have been nudged towards Catholic Church lately, as I have been reading Jimmy Akin's books. He is such a thoughtful, intelligent person who shows good epistemic hygiene and seems like a very kind soul. I would love to have a convo with him.
He gives BS while smiling and talking kindly. It seems as kind, but actually is feels like what snake was doing in garden.
@@IvarsKublinscome to the true Church.
@@logicalthinker7565 i prefer true Jesus
My dad taught me that when one starts verbally attacking the other, it’s because his argument has been dismantled by the other guy. Congratulations Jimmy Akin!
Thanks Dr Jimmy Akin. You are a treasure to the Catholic Church
Excellent debate! James White is great. I owe him a lot! He played a pivotal role in my conversion to Catholicism! 🙂 Oh, you played a pivital role, as well, Jimmy! Keep up the great work. 🙂
You got me on the first half brother 🤣 God bless
- fellow Catholic 🤍🕊️✝️
@@EliasRendonJr you were all ready to thumb down me, lol 😆. It's good you read my whole comment. God bless Brother!
LOL Welcome Home Brother!
😂🎉welcome home
James White is correct. Many of the whacko doctrines from Rome: Papal infallibility 2) Purgatory 3) Aricular confession 4) Marian dogmas etc. These dogmas never existed and are late dogmas not taught by the Apostles
Jimmy embodies knowledge, temperance, gentleness, and clarity all at once.
Yes he does but NO historically accuracy. Watch how Dr. Martin with the same things that embodies Jimmy does to another great Catholic Fr. Pacwa on why SOLA SCRIPTURA is the sole authority of our faith. ruclips.net/video/WSQ1sHFgzKo/видео.html
Great but sadly missing truth and objectivity. Thought it was interesting in the debate Mr. Akin starts off saying we should "split hairs" by debating the meaning of words.... But immediately does that. The Bible is as many would asset an integrated message system, i.e. use the Bible to interpret the Bible. One example that troubles me hearing Mr. Akin is talking about "anathema"... The Greek word for it is only used once in the N.T. and really does mean one is doomed to hell without any hope of escaping, possibly a bit extreme? Sure but lets dig into scripture and the meaning. The one place where it is used is Gal 1:6-9 saying effectively if anything/anyone preaches a gospel contrary to what we have preached, Paul did preach Christ and Him crucified. And the Bible would assert that Christ is the only way, no one will ever get to the Father except through Christ... My point anathema from a Biblical definition would imply anyone anathematized will be going to hell and absolutely has no hope of escaping it... But now Mr. Akin assert the anathema doesn't mean what the Bible does assert about anathema. Even worse, the one disappointing thing it seem is according to the "official Roman Catholic Cannon" i'm anathema-ed because i accept solely on the basis of faith alone, apart from works....
@@dand4485 Akin is talking about the usage of the word anathema during the Council of Trent, right? As in If X says Y, let him be anathema. Trent means the person excommunicates themselves from the Church by not adhering to that particular canon.
Being ex-communicated is a very serious thing if you believe in the importance of communion. Catholics would perceive that to mean you cannot enter Heaven. Protestants clearly would not...seeing as they have anathematised themselves voluntarily.
@@dand4485
Weird how you hold a position that is verbatim rejected by Sacred scripture, considering your baseline is to reject sacred scripture I.e. You are not saved by faith alone. Anything else you want to point to is the Bible seems trivial.
@bman5257, don't be fooled by knowledge, temperance, gentleness and clarity all at once. But pay close attention to what the Biblical text says. Just these two verses below lets us know that the Bible alone is sufficient for the Christian.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
"16 All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work."
There's no need to debate Sola Scriptura. It's a fact given to us in these two verses that clearly define the sufficiency of Scripture alone. There's no need for a man-made "Magisterium".
Im a protestant (non-denom) pastor and I have some issues with some of the teachings of the Catholic church - that being said Jimmy is one of the best spoken and most rhetorically consistent catholics I have heard.
Thank you so much, Reverend! God bless you, and please let me know if I can ever be of service!
White is flustered. Mr. Akin is well above White -and Akin has such a gentle spirit. Mic drop- Thank you Mr. Akin…
Well Akin is defending the truth, White has to defend protestant smoke and mirrors gong show theology. It's always easy to defend the truth because it speaks for itself.
Yes, you can Akin tell is a Democrat.
Incredible what you conclude when you enter the debate through an extreme bias. Notice you can’t mention a single point that was superior.
Thanks Jimmy Akin for your service to the holy Church! A learned and humble man. We are proud of you. From Australia.
I have learn so much about the catholic church thanks to you Mr. Akin. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
@verdespickles, I'm glad you learned how the Roman Church cites verses out of context and enjoys engaging in anachronism. If Jesus offered Himself once for all time at the cross at calvary then why does the priest offer Jesus every Sunday? I wonder 🤔
Shhhhh quiet Bible butcherer. Jesus most certainly meant for the Eucharist to be celebrated.
@@johnhartnett3629
Every Sunday the priest re-presents the one eternal sacrifice of Jesus. He follow the request from Jesus to "Do this in memory of Me". That way all Catholics have access directly to the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus as if they were actually there.
@@bridgefin I understand what the Roman Catholics believe because I was raised a Roman Catholic and I used to believe that.
But nowhere in the Bible does it say that a Priest needs to re-present the one eternal sacrifice of Jesus. On the contrary in Hebrews 10:10 it mentions that Jesus offered Himself once for all time.
@@johnhartnett3629
Jesus told the apostles to "DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME" in John. Not contrary to Hebrews.
Hi Jimmy! I just have to say that you are an absolutely amazing gift to our beautiful Catholic Church. May God continue to bless, guide, protect, and strengthen you always! Much love & respect!! ❤🙏🏼❤🙏🏼❤
James White is good at debating Islam, but he lacks credibility in debate against authentic Apostolic-era Christianity. Thank you, Jimmy Akin, for exposing White as someone outside both Holy Scripture and Tradition.
He’s not even good at debating Islam and the one Jehovah’s Witness that he did debate, he got smoked.
Instead of defending sola scriptura, James White used his time attacking Catholic teachings that are not the topic of the debate.
Say it louder for the ones in the back🗣️🗣️🗣️❣️
That's how he debates most Catholics....
He seems usually to do this in all his debates! Red Herrings.
I actually redact my previous comment! The debate was not about Sola Scriptura per se. It was actually that there are no necessary revelations outside of scripture! So, he was anticipating Jimmy!
I noticed, and I'm not trying to attack Protestants here, but anytime there is a friendly debate or discussion of any kind whether public or even in my own private life, it always turns into a Catholic bashing session. I also see a great deal of ex-Catholics who are very poorly catechized doing the same.
Is it because they get flustered? Or just because they are wired that way? I don't know but it's sad.
There should be no divisions. ❤
White spends most of his time vilifying Rome rather than defending the preposterous 16th century idea of Sola Scriptura… good job Jimmy from an Eastern Orthodox brother
Augustine believed sola scriptura. odd that you hate scripture that much that you would refute Augustine.
@@irishamerican8790 the Saints and Holy Fathers of my church wrote compiled and canonized the scripture. We love the scripture. The scriptures are a document of the church and a liturgical document. Your comment is ridiculous.
@@irishamerican8790No he doesnt. Protestants hate scripture they butcher the meaning and remove books you guys dont even have a set canon whose to say 200 years from now prots dont remove more books because you reject tradition which tells u the authoriship
@@irishamerican8790 "But should you meet with a person not yet believing the gospel, how would you reply to him were he to say, I do not believe? For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. "
- St Augustine of Hippo, Against the Fundamental Epistle of Manichaeus
He explains that the only way one can accept the Gospel is to accept the Church, and if one rejects the Church they cannot possibly accept the Gospel
This is not the attitude of a Sola Scriptura adherent, not at all.
He starts right off with spurious attacks on the Catholic positions. 2 minutes in he's talking about a completely different subject, taking a random opportunity to attack a unrelated belief.
If his points were valid, he wouldn't have to be so aggressive with his language and his points, especially in his opening statements.
Im an Eastern Orthodox Christian but I never tire of watching and listening to Jimmy. He is a textbook master class on how to engage in conversation and debate with clarity, humility, and charity without sacrificing any conviction. Mr White has long been an example of someone who lacks these traits in his public interactions and discussions.
Jimmy Akin you are such a joy to listen to. Every time you speak you exude such joy and charity - and as a former Protestant and newly minted Catholic (woohoo!) I gotta say you're embodiment of Christian values in your demeanor is so encouraging to me. Its so easy to get frustrated or upset when your beliefs are so often straw-manned or misconstrued in a negative way, but your lightheartedness is so infectious and reassuring that it has supported me in my efforts to dialogue with our Protestant brothers and sisters. Thank you for living out your faith so joyfully!
Also, killer suit 🤘
It is the Sola Scriptura that created and creating a lot of false churches sprouting like mushrooms, but we needed this kind of debate to exposed the truth. Well done to Mr J Akin for charitably defending the One and Only Christ Church.
You don't know what you're talking about. The only false church here is the Beast of Rome.
It is the lack of rightly discerning Scripture that creates False and Blasphemous 'churches' the biggest one being the catholics.
@@user-kr9zb2ng8ithere are churches that promote homosexuality, transsexualism, abortion, socialism, all because everyone is interpreting scripture on their own without regard for an actual authority.
I converted to the Catholic church and was confirmed on 3rd January . I had no intention becoming catholic but scripture led me into the catholic church . In the end it was between the orthodox or catholic teachings
Every James White opening statement:
"I have an incredibly short amount of time to cover an enormously complicated topic"
*Spends the first three minutes telling a vaguely related story about a debate he did in the 90s*
"Well I have so much more to say but that's my time"
pretty much
lol
Strawman. Also akin does the same and refers to his books for more information.
@@keithwilson9172 Thought it was interesting Mr. Akin starts off one of the sections of the debate not to debate and argue over the meaning of words... Then proceed to re-define (incorrectly) the meaning of anathema... I might be a little confused, i watched both nights and kind of a blur for me now, was a good debate, but i think this is the first evening and see this video was posted 14 hours, should be like 38 if it was when the debate actually occurred. But watch the 2nd debate, if memory is correct about 21 minutes in the second debate this is where Mr. Akin sure seems to make contradictory comments.
@@dand4485 interesting. You aren’t wrong about his definition of anathema, all one has to do is look it up to see it means to be cut off, cursed, or damned.
James White has no true argument for sola scriptura so he attacks the Catholic church. Even if the Catholic Church and the Pope is false that still wouldn’t prove sola scriptura.
He says sola scriptura is true today, but not true at some point in the past. You also have to go outside of sola scriptura to prove its own doctrine.
Exactly. I am Orthodox, so his "Scary Rome" arguments are meaningless. No one believed Sola Scriptura for 1500 years. It has never been true and he is debating the whole Apostolic Tradition not just Rome.
Bravo Jimmy Akins. Thank you for all the god given true wisdom in defence on his Church. ❤❤❤ it..God bless.
I do not understand how James White can think that Sola Scriptura is a source of unity for Protestants! My Protestant family has concluded that there is no church that holds the fullness of the Gospel. Each of my nephews attends a different church, with different doctrines, and they can all quote scriptures to support will those contradictory teachings -- sometimes by very circuitous reasoning, like James White's assertion that Hebrews 1:1 teaches that there will be no new Apostles!
But that tactic of over-loading, while not strictly correct as a debating technique, is very effective for swaying the listeners!
For the other commenters, I will list the two things that irked me the most, that James White brought up, which were too far afield to respond to during the debate:
1) In "Fiducia Supplicans", Pope Francis and the Magisterium said NOTHING that James White would not agree with about the welcome the Church MUST give to people struggling with same-sex attraction and how we as Christians MUST pray for them -- which is the meaning of the term "bless" when speaking of persons.
AND Pope Francis reiterated that homosexual ACTS are sinful, and the ACTS (the UNIONS) cannot be blessed, in the sense of approval. (To be fair, James White did murmur something about "I know" when you, Jimmy, gave him a little correction that the Church is not supportive of same-sex marriages.)
James White made an erroneous claim that Pope Honorius I (625-638) was declared a heretic by 4 popes (I think that's the number he gave). In point of fact, no pope considered Pope Honorius I to have been a heretic. The Council of Constantinople III (680) found Pope Honorius I to have been in the wrong for failing to stop the Monothelite heresy. That same council affirmed that no pope had ever taught heresy.
This debate was certainly enthralling! Thank you so much!
Pope Honorious gets slandered even more than Pope Francis.
It was rather mind boggling that James white thinks eventually sola scriptura would unite the tribes. It's scary to think that he actually espoused that when it's obviously proved to be impossible.
@zacharyahearn4069 it's frustrating that pope honorius anathema was based on his lack of decisiveness with the monothelism controversy. It had nothing to do with any of his official teachings as a pope. These old gotcha moments are getting really tired.
The fruit of sola scriptura was, is, and shall ever be, doctrinal chaos, confusion, and division.
Exactly! A point so obvious that to ignore it is intellectually dishonest.
Nobody:
James White: "I don't have much time so I'll get right to the point and reiterate what I told Father Michael Schmichael when we debated in 1987 in the 2nd floor conference room of the Ramada Inn in St. Louis; now, keep in mind it was extraordinarily humid,my alarm clock malfunctioned (it was made by GE and I haven't bought anything from them since) so I woke late and had to skip breakfast, and the entire room smelled like cigarette smoke because you could still smoke indoors in the 80s..."
This gave me a good belly laugh 😊
Best comment.
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
💀
As a Catholic, I really tried hard to be on James side, but almost immediately I was “no, that’s not convincing” and “that’s just mean and off-topic”. Also attacking Jimmy for using slides just seems weak.
Huge props to Jimmy for staying calm and sticking to the debate!
I did learn one thing though from James: How did the Jews know what made up the Old Testament?
Jimmy’s answer “they don’t” was spot on, and that’s how I realized what a great gift from God the Magisterium is.
" the Jews know what made up the Old Testament?"
At the time of Jesus, The Disapora Jews - and they were no less Jews - used the Septuagint which includes all the Catholic OT books, as well as a few more that the Orthodox hold as inspired. James is just flat out WRONG on lumping all Jews together. Michael Kruger fails on this one too.
You feel this way because you do not understand what the subject was. Not understanding what sola Scriptura is & is not is a roadblock for many people. White made the case for Sola Scriptura as demonstrated by Jesus and the apostles when refuting Satan and the religious Jewish leaders.
@@tricord2939 "Not understanding what sola Scriptura is"
That protestantism has varying definitions of Sola Scriptura is more evidence just how unscriptural it is. Even James White admits, "sola scriptura" is not found in scripture. He's a hypocrite for holding others to a standard he does not hold to himself.
@@TruthHasSpoken Dismissed 🤣😂😅
“They don’t” Yes the Jews know their scriptures. Jimmy is mistaken.
Every time I hear James White it confirms for me how blessed I am to be Catholic following the Church that Christ established not a man-made Church established during the Protestant Reformation
I watched it earlier, job well done Jimmy! I never get tired of seeing you take down Sola Scriptura, cowboy style! 🤠
I see you didn’t view the video.
@@tricord2939 "I watched it earlier"
@@pendletondrew Jimmy did not engage, but gave only talking points. If you viewed the debate you would have known it.
@@tricord2939 I did watch the debate, though.
@@pendletondrew Then you know Jimmy didn’t take down the Sola Scriptura demonstrated by Jesus and the apostles when they refuted Satan and the religious Jewish leaders.
You are a treasure, Mr Akin. What a wealth of knowledge that we can only hope to at least absorb some.
For such a temperamentally gentle and nice guy, Jimmy is a ruthless debater 😂 great job, Mr. Akin! Keep up the good work
Jimmy you handled this debate so well Sir. Very nicely done. You speak very well and I thank God for Catholics like you who defend our faith. God bless you always sir
The nervousness of James White during the cross examination reflects clearly how bad he was responding, Jimmy is a Beast
I need a timestamp to see where White was nervous. I didn’t see any part where he was.
Lol
jimmy as an orthodox christian (ex baptist, and ex roman catholic ) you blew this debate right out of the water! congratulations on your clear win
Hahaha ha, we watched it together today 🤣❤️
Notice how Mr. White is accusatory and semi snarky while Mr. Akin is just calm cool and collective.
Behavior like that really helps to show who's right, or at least show who's more sure of themself.
Except Dr. White is RIGHT! 👍🏻
@@Pizza-ek9ky not at all. Jimmy's arguments are just more sound.
@@Pizza-ek9ky Well he is not right about *everything* he said, because some things were just factually incorrect
@@Pizza-ek9kyWhite resorts to snark because the facts are against him.
I see you are joking.
The fact James gets so defensive tells me he wasn't confident he was winning the debate, lol
Always love hearing anything, Jimmy Akin says he has strengthen my faith so much thank you Jimmy
Keeping notes here:
James White referencing debates from before I was born count: 10 times! I knew he was a little stuck in the past, but this is absurd!
White opening: Entirely spent on making a negative case *against* the Catholic church instead of making a positive case *for* sola scriptura. It seems kind of gish-gallop-y, and I have a hunch that he's going to whine later on about how none of his "points" were addressed (because they had nothing to do with the discussion at hand).
Akin opening: This feels like it should have been the opening. Akin's opening makes a negative case against sola scriptura by making a positive case for a competing paradigm. White's opening attempted to dismiss this before it was even said, but such a case cannot be simply dismissed like that. With this opening, Akin denies White's attempt to default-ize sola scriptura by using scripture. I do not think White will take this kindly, but I will have to see. The bit at the end utilizing White's weak definition of sola scriptura against him is a point that I predict White will backtrack on - he's probably going to quibble about "teaching" specifically. Also - Akin going over on time! Naughty naughty!
White first rebuttal: As far as I'm aware, the Bible does not say that the *only* teaching taught orally by the Apostles was the Gospel. This equivocation point is invalid. Then he tries to poison the well by saying "look at how evil my opponent is! dont listen to him!"; this is a bad look. Now he's requiring Akin to make a positive case for Catholicism instead of a negative case against Sola Scriptura - Mr. White, this is not the debate topic! The point about the Pharisees thinking their traditions were 'apostolic' is fair, but Catholics do not think that traditions are above scripture as the Pharisees did so it's a false comparison. Catholic Tradition does not contradict scripture, as the traditions of the Pharisees did. James White says Sola Ecclesia v3258249856e34; false dichotomy fallacy that attempts to show the only two options as either his or a strawman. More poisoning the well. The slight dig at Akin going over his time was probably meant to put Akin off, but from what I've seen of him, it likely will not.
Akin first rebuttal: White's gish gallop is called out, thank God. The clearing up of whether or not Sola Scriptura is a doctrine per se is important, but I certainly know protestants who would call it a practice rather than a doctrine - not sure on this one. The idea that Christians should believe anything that is true, regardless of whether or not it is enscripturated is certainly true, and often is not stated enough. Acquiescing the the requirement of making a positive case against Sola Scriptura rather than a negative one, even though it's not required, is classy. Nice.
White second rebuttal: Whining about the accusation of gish gallop even though his points were unrelated to the debate is not a good opener. Prediction in my analysis of White's opening comes true here. The slide point would be valid - it basically seems like an extended Akin opening - if White had actually added anything of substance to dispute. White then equivocates Tradition with the Gospel (a novel definition), and then accuses Akin of equivocation when Akin is using the original definition! Smooth, but dishonest. Again, White is getting hung up on making a negative case against Tradition rather than making a positive case for Sola Scriptura. If White would actually make some points in his arguments, there might be something to talk about.
Akin *second* rebuttal: Akin covering the irritation equivocation of Tradition and the Gospel is nice. I'm pretty sure Thessalonica is pronounced with a hard i, not a soft i. Negative evidence of Tradition being more than just Gospel is handy for the listener, but not useful in this debate. I'm noticing that the things that White covered in his second rebuttal are addressed on these slides - is Akin really fast at making slides, or is White just that predictable? This second rebuttal was short, but to the point.
White cross-exam: White really seems to care a lot about proving the Catholic structure wrong instead of proving himself right. I kind of appreciate that Akin is humoring him and is basically treating this cross-exam like an episode of Catholic Answers; White is doing an awful job of making a positive case.
Akin cross-exam: White seems very nervous to define when exactly Sola Scriptura came into effect. "That's a nonsequiter and it's my question time actually" hilarious. White trying to defend that he can assume his position to find his position is... interesting to say the least. He says "I'm not assuming anything; it's explicit" and then referring to not that is funny. White listening to a point that Akin makes and then going "nuh uh" is also kind of funny. White repeatedly saying "no you have to use my novel equivocated definition of tradition instead of the correct one" is funny, but irritating. At the end, White goes "no that's a false dichotomy" and then continues on to talk about something unrelated. This seems to be a recurrent thing that White does - does he struggle to understand subject matter, or does he just have other things on his mind that he is more worried about addressing? It's either those two options, or dishonesty, but I don't want to assume dishonesty where other options are present.
Q&A: The artifact/object distinction on the question of Scripture from Tradition is odd to me - what's the point of this distinction? Saying that there is massive consistency between those who take Sola Scriptura seriously is laughable on it's face - just look at the many points of difference between Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli, for a very limited study. White continues to assume his position as default, although saying that is practically beating a dead horse at this point. White's argument that every Protestant that disagrees with his exact position is just not following Sola Scriptura hard enough is pretty funny, but also extremely arrogant (although this is not necessarily out of character for White!). White using 2 Thessalonians to support Scripture and Gospel being equivocal words is absurd on it's face.
White closing: Yes, Mr. White, we have heard assertions - specifically, by you! White has asserted multiple things without proof, chief among them his definition of Scripture that equates it to Gospel. He badly wants the takeaway to be the reverse of that, but it simply is not. White asks for inspiration outside of Scripture, when (as per Akin's second slide) that is not the resolving factor in the discussion. Furthermore, it's simply rhetorical, as Scripture is defined as anything that is inspired by God to be written. White returns to his irritating gish-gallop at the end, of course, but that is to be expected (as I predicted from the start). White uses several false arguments, subsequently, which would require far more writing than I care to do here to prove, but fortunately these are just my notes so I don't have to prove that to anybody but myself (which I already have). White yet again asserts that Akin has not defeated his argument in one specific way, while Akin has defeated it in other, equally effective ways (perhaps Sola Other Example rather than the trifold structure of Other Example, Self Inconsistency, and Logic).
Akin closing: The point about White adding extra criteria at the end is accurate, and irritating. Why can White not remain on the debate topic? He chose it, after all!
Final thoughts: From looking at comments on Twitter and on various videos on this debate, I thought Akin might have had a poor performance and potentially even lost it. I now see that those comments were wildly incorrect, and that Akin was the clear winner. White did not stay on topic, did not defend his case, and resorted to sneaky fallacies to make points. Akin kept a clear presentation, resoundingly deconstructed his opponent's position, and used strong logic throughout.
Nah don’t worry the comments and Twitter reception are just Protestant coping and seething 😅
Congratulations Jemmy Akin!
You delivered the teaching of Catholic Church. . . GODBLESS you more @always!
Debates like these have helped me so much to up my knowledge base on the finer details of our Catholic faith. I'm very grateful for the hard work of Jimmy Akin'. ❤
Jimmy, your level of patience is amazingly steadfast. Thank you for your witness to Christ and His Holy Catholic Church! ✝☦
Thank you Mr. Akin, you're awesome. God bless and thank you for showing the truth.
Our man Jimmy did a GREAT job! You didn’t try to confuse anybody, kept your answers clear and concise, and you did NOT act like a pompous a$$ the way the “Dr.” did!!!! Go Jimmy, 4 more yrs, 4 more yrs, 4 more yrs!!! Sorry. God bless! 🙏🏻✝️❤️🔥🩸
LOL
God Bless you Jimmy, love all of your debates
Praised be Jesus Christ now and forever ✝
Mr. Akin won for the simple fact that he pronounces Lyons correctly.
And I pronounce theopneustos correctly! (The "p" is *not* silent!)
@@JimmyAkin for any who are interested θεόπνευστος, is syllabified thus: θε.ό.πνευσ.τος [/tʰe.ó.pneu̯s.tos/] = te.Ó.pneoos.tos (where Ó is like the o in forest, and the 2nd t is like the t in stop while the first t is like the t in top)
@@JimmyAkin 😄
Thank you so much Jimmy! This was great, the composure, calling his attitude out, his fallacy, very solid thruout the whole debate. You should put the membership for the channel!
1:23
White basically says the apocryphal books are bad in the Septuagint due to lack of understanding of the Hebrew context behind it because there were Jews who were against it as well as Jews who were for it.
Jesus quoted from the Septuagint.
Good enough for me.
And it was in the canon of the early church.
Jimmy I know you are a very humble man and you probably don't like being praised, but you are an absolute legend and Thank you so much for defending the Church and teaching me so much. I hope you come to Australia one day and do a talk :) God bless you and Praying for you always.
Only Apostolic Traditions can help truly understand the doctrines, like the Eucharistic real presence etc
"I could go for another 30 seconds because HE did. III wont."
Then spends 5 minutes interuppting Jimmy during his time.
This dude argues like kindergartener.
i must have missed that part, do you have a timestamp when white interrupted Akin?
@@fruitsnacks155He interrupts multiple times during the Jimmy Akin Cross-Examination segment. It’s right there, pal.
Thank you Mr. Akin. I really enjoy your videos and podcasts.
It feels like James White forgot that he had the burden of proof since he was arguing in the affirmative. Jimmy, I admire your ability to remain calm and charitable while firmly stating the truth in the face of smugness and animosity. Thank you for your great example!
God bless you and the ministry Bro. Jimmy🙏👑✝️🕊️
Well done. I would love to see more pushback when White starts rattling off his favorite anti-Catholic "scare words" like "purgatory", "assumption of Mary" and "indulgences" etc, which he routinely throws at the audience with no context. But this was excellent, and I'm converting screen shots of those slides into notes!
As a Catholic convert, my brother is Protestant. This was very enlightening as answers I had to sola scriptura have had rebuttals placed. I struggled with the Assumption dogma but found Mary was not the first assumed bodily into heaven. Elijah and Enoch were. The discourse of the Real Presence and Jesus risked losing every follower and taught it anyway and He didn't go after people as they walked away. He meant what He said. Knowing some of the hot button arguments helps me to be prepared. Thank you Jimmy.
"Mary was not the first assumed bodily into heaven"
Interestingly, unlike all of the 12 apostles, no one in history has ever claimed to have her bodily remains. This is true of her Son as well.
for more on this topic, read the Catholic Catechism
On the assumption of Mary, I would recommend you to read the church fathers and what they say on the subject. Or, if you don't have the time, the Dr. Gavin Ortlund (protestant) has a video on RUclips about it.
@@HowlettYT Shameless Popery Podcast laid waste to Ortlund on the subject of Mary in two recent videos so I wouldn't listen to anything Ortulund says.
@@HowlettYT One can see the Assumption in Scripture. The Ark (Mary) in Rev 11 immediately followed by the woman (Mary) who gave birth to the child in Rev 12 that would rule all the nations.
Note:
- The Old Testament Ark was buried on Mt Sinai by Jeremiah (2 Macc 2).
- Unlike all the apostles, no one as ever claimed to have the bodily remains of Mary. The same is true of her son.
- And the Assumption of Mary, is only after that of Enoch and Elijah. There is scriptural precedent.
Church Fathers: do read them as one finds the Catholic Church, not protestantism. Most were Catholic Bishops. Which one holding your understanding of scripture would you want to preach in your church? Perhaps start with the nature of the Lord's Supper. As Cardinal Henry Newman said: To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant. He is not alone in that belief.
Loved, loved, loved your debate! You may not have the notable title after your name but have much better, the love for the faith, a plethora of knowledge that is astounding, joy and humbleness. Many blessings to you Mr Akins!
Here's a thing I always think of when I hear protestants: if Jesus believed in sola scriptura then WHY DIDN'T HE WRITE IT HIMSELF. He had the time, He was more than able, but He did not.
Jesus also did not teach in a way that made the NT read like a manual or rulebook.
Jesus did find tine to repeatedly call out hypocrites, the self-righteous rule-followers.
James reminds me of those guys who would rather crucify Christ than admit being wrong.
I appreciate the fact that you don't shy away from truth in an attempt to portray a false sense of ecumenism when you debate. Too many Catholic apologists are afraid of showing teeth in debate.
When is white going to come up with a better argument? The ontological argument is over used, and it has been proven wrong time and time again, but James White manages to use that as his only argument.
Jimmy Akin is absolutely brilliant! What a gift from God to His Church! James White HAS to admit that he can NEVER KNOW with infallible certitude, who the rock is in Matthew 16, or who the Woman is in Revelation 12, or what Jesus Christ meant by "this IS MY BODY ", as Scripture ALONE is infallible, thus making all his interpretations, FALLIBLE! James White will never admit that his interpretations are Fallible though Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
I read this post twice. I've never seen it put just that way, that if only Scripture is infallible, then Mr. White's interpretations are all fallible: he can never be certain who the Rock of Matt 16 is, who the Woman of Rev., nor what Christ meant by "This is My Body." Catholics can be certain because in addition to inerrant Scripture which doesn't interpret itself, we have Sacred Tradition plus a divinely empowered teaching authority. yay!
@@pmlm1571yes, James White can never know who the rock is in Matthew 16 or anywhere else, for Scripture ALONE is infallible, thus making all the interpretations of James White, fallible! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink!
Thank you Jimmy. It is obvious a lot of preparation goes into all of your work.
Nice job, Jimmy Akin. You were patient, kind, gentle and knowledgeable the behavior of a real Christian.
I watched the original upload. Its on a Protestant channel and in the comments, its an overwhelming amount of people who thought jimmy won. You know when JW takes to twitter to complain about jimmys tactics that he lost. He said jimmy didnt respond, didnt debate, and was there merely to have a presentation. Jimmy schooled him hard, dr white was stuttering, sweating, and tried every cheap debate tactic i know. Another glorious win for the church thanks jimmy!
Aren't Catholics the majority?
That's not a good point to make. Doesn't matter what channel - the debate draws views from both sides.
@@GoldenRuffian No, Protestant groups make up about 49% of the USA population in the 2020 census. Catholics are about 23%. So collectively, protestants who all hold to some basic sola scriptura principle/doctrine > Catholics in the USA.
@@GoldenRuffian Very few protestants support James White though!
@@wordforever117 in what way?
And what would that prove?
Truth isn't made by consensus, beloved.
Simple question:
Can the "oral tradition" conflict with the Bible?
Protestantism is dying that’s why.
Love your work Jimmy. Always enjoy seeing you debate.
I thought you did a great job Jimmy. Keep up the amazing work.
Thank you Jimmy, well done as always. I believe this makes Whitey, 0 for 200 in debates.
I am doubtful that I can ever amass the amount of knowledge you have about the Catholic faith but I will continue to pray for the wisdom God has blessed you with Jimmy. You were honey to James White's vinegar in this debate and I bet it had an impact on the audience.
I’m a protestant, but James White is being fairly successful in showing me the error of my ways
Before you cross the Tiber, just realize that Jimmy lost this debate within the first 5 minutes of his opening statement by appealing to the scriptures as the final authority to prove the authority of the Catholic Church. He demonstrated in practice that in the end, it's the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone that give authority.
@@Lambdamale.RCism holds Scripture as an authority. Obviously it will appeal to it. That doesn't entail SS.
@@Lambdamale. that’s true! That was meant to be a little bit funny, but the reality is that it is, indeed scripture that is convincing me
@@cronmaker2 When it comes to debating foundations, scripture is used as the final authority. Jimmy Aiken is proving it. Without the foundations of scripture, Jimmy couldn't prove any of his points. Scripture isn't just "an authority", it's the final authority.
@calebnei8276 Roman Catholics aren't the only group that uses scripture to prove their authority. Coptics, Orthodox, Lutherans, all use scripture to define authority.
Excellent exchange to both James (Akin and White). Mr. Akins did as expected, he was on target and evidentiary driven. Well done. Coudos!
Great job Jimmy! I'm disappointed that White, rather than trying to prove the resolution is true, spent his entire time painting "Rome" as a villain, even using absolutely unfair characterizations of apostolic tradition.
A good majority of calvinistic protestants paint rome as the whore of Babylon and it's disgusting
You need to view the video without your prescriptions.
@@tricord2939 what do you mean?
@@tafazziReadChannelDescription What I wrote. 😀
@@tricord2939 Protestant fails to understand the basic truth that two people can read the same word and reach different conclusions (if he realized this he'd stop being protestant).
The fact that my church did not have the bible for 1500 years tells me sola scriptura is false
Your statement is so demonstrably untrue it’s embarrassing
@@pujiyesus I think he's talking about a physical Bible as in the local parish didn't have scripture?
@@pujiyesus No literally the churches in India did not have a bible until the 18th century
@adamcalvaneso9624 No im being as literal as the comment states
@@RJDJ__can you explain this a little more?
Well done, Jimmy Akin! (Mike drop). Great defender of truth!
Jimmy Akin the future Saint. Good Job Jimmy!
I felt White was trying to out argue instead of out debate. Well done Jimmy!
Great debate! I wish Jimmy had specifically pointed out that the Catholic Church doesn't put tradition above the bible. That seems to be what Mr. White was pushing.
Awesome debate, thank you for doing these as your knowledge is helping me understand the Catholic tradition and grow in my faith.
It also helps me to hold conversations with my Anabaptist friends as to why I cling to the Catholic Church instead of leaving and joining them as some of them have done.
Jimmy you really won this debate, but James was in an unfair position: it’s nearly impossible for a new age religion to somehow claim they were the original church.
Excellent job, Jimmy Akin! May God bless you and continue to fill you with His Holy Spirit!
Roman Catholic Church against all denominations, but still Roman Catholic Church stays stronger as many protestants contradicts its the more that more people who are watching and listening to this site are becoming Catholics, i am from the Philippines and thanks Mr. Akin for your very cool conversation with White 😊 keep the faith alive,Mabuhay ang RRC!
Thank you for sharing, I’ve been waiting for this since you mentioned it on Pints with Aquinas, I highly recommend that talk to everyone - it gave me a much deeper appreciation for you. God bless you brother!
I started a drinking game for every time Dr. White mentioned “Marian dogmas”. Needless to say, I’m not drinking again for a while.
Within the first 10 minutes, this gentleman makes a “scattershot” approach to debate where he presents both debatable points AND speculative conjecture (“the state of Africa today”) to prime the audience. It’s frustrating but Jimmy, as always, does a great job.
Jimmy did an outstanding job in handing James w. The overloading tactics jimmy mentioned is crucial for witnessing james deflecting style in debates, we appreciate you for defending our faith.
Amazing work Jimmy, stay humble and keep explaining our faith!
So happy about this debate at last! I thought your presentation was fantastic, Jimmy! Thanks be to God!
I thought the Pastor of the host church was very gracious and respectful.
I agree! Pastor Brian was great!
1 Timothy 3:15 is a verse in the New Testament of the Bible that reads:
"If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."
Jimmy I see so much in you that I believe is pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ.....I want to tell you something of value and I suppose you already know that we are going to suffer in this world but let's give thanks to God that our suffering is never in vain....pray for all souls as you can bless even your enemies.....and remember blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God 🙏🙏🙏
Jesus Christ gave himself for all mankind even annoying people
You are the best Catholic apologist on debating Sola Scriptura. I finally accepted it. Good job, Sir!
Mr.White's arrogance is overwhelming..😢
But what about the arguments he made?
@@UltraAarit was very poor. when he said Jesus talks about the scriptures it was the OLD testament scriptures not NT.
How is that pooor? It is instructive that he references scripture well over 50 times and not once references tradition within a culture dominated by religious tradition. The contrast is staggering and very analogous to the RCC vs scripture today.
@@coloradodutch7480 Excellent point and one the RCC don't properly consider. For the gemmiefy3/RCC argument to be true you have to submit God changes how He operates in a fundamental way when Jesus arrives in terms of revelation to mankind, especially strange considering John belaboured the point of Jesus being THE WORD. ALL scripture, OT or NT, was being written at some point, but afterwards it became binding.
Not at all. Akin wasn't tracking with White's line of questioning in his cross-examination unfortunately was quite inappropriately sarcastic at times as when he referenced his book was for sale that White could purchase. That was low. Clearly missed the point of White's question.
I pray one day White enters the Catholic Church. I think he would find such joy in coming home. All of us commenting here should take a moment to pray a "hail Mary" for him. God bless us all!
Agree. He always seem so full of pride and anger. He needs the love of Mary and the saints
I will do it for white. Even though he drives me up the wall.
@@dottorb7054White needs to understand the Pope is the vicar of Christ,and following his teachings will bring him to Biblical truth. Trying to follow his own understandings will only lead to disappointment. As we can see Pope Francis is faithfully following the word of God and the only leader we can trust in.
@@dottorb7054 ..don’t you understand sarcasm when it hits you straight between the eyes?
That is truly a great point. And an excellent suggestion which I am going to acquiesce to 🙏🏼
Nice job Jimmy. Very kind and respectful. I have been following you for years and you gotten better and better.
Heavenly Father, I thank you for gifting Mr. Atkins and Dr.White who both seek to ascribe glory to your holy name. Amen
I have been following Mr. Akin's Apologetics since I came back into the Church about 8 years ago. He was the first person I came across online when searching for some information. I'm so glad that I found him then and our Church should be forever grateful for his service. I always keep him in my prayers.
Just a funny thought, I work in Organized Retail Crime and I conduct confrontational interviews for a living, Jimmy would be amazing at my job, could sure use him sometimes. ❤
Loved your line of questioning Mr akin
Great debate, I learned a lot from both White and Jimmy. I hope there are more debates between these two juggernauts in the future as they are very edifying. Thank you Jimmy Akin for posting this, I am a fellow red head though I disagree with you on this specific issue, you are one of my favorite catholic apologists and I thank God for the work you have done for the kingdom. God Bless!
Awesome Job Mr. Akin
Praise God! This debate clearly showed who the Holy Spirit is blessing and residing in, our beloved Jimmy Akin, who graciously displayed the Gifts and bore the fruits of Holy Spirit. I pray that James White will be more open to the Holy Spirit and show a more Christian witness of the faith, by the manner of his attitude, demeanor, the way he speaks and what he speaks.
This is my first exposure to you & your work. Thank you Jimmy.
Thanks! Hope you find it helpful, and God bless you!
Thank you for doing this! Love your stuff Jimmy
Great job Jimmy. You're calm, friendly demeanor is indicative of confidence in truth. Mr. White quickly becomes defensive, if not sometimes angry. My feeling is that Mr. White finds it difficult to cover his arguments. And if Sola Scriptura was the absolute truth, then why do 44,000 (estimated) denominations of the Protestant church exist? Can they not agree on what Sola Scripture says? Could it be there are other things that also matter? As a former protestant, I say there are.
Well, as Jimmy did point out, the "tens of thousands" of different Protestant denominations is based on a way of counting that, if applied equally to Catholicism, would count between 2 and 300 Catholic Churches instead of just the One. The count is country by country, and if your denom. appears in two countries, it is counted as two denominations--see? So although the proliferation of prot. denoms is a scandal, and points to the falsity of protestatism's founding doctrine of sola scriptura, using the tens of thousands language falsifies rather than makes the point. see?
@@pmlm1571 I mean we don't need to make that point. However many Protestant denominations there are, there are too many. Whether the number is 30,000, 3000, etc. there is clearly disorder and confusion inherent to Protestantism.
Really seems worth mentioning that Jesus/God literally breathes on the Apostles. I'm sure he would say that Spirit/inspiration is not passed on, and that's true to some extent, but still combats his claim that only Scripture is God-breathed, according to Scripture.
You have a talent for coming up with nonsense.
@@simeonwaia ???
@@EmberBright2077 you understand whatever it is tony is saying???
@@simeonwaia Jesus (God) breathed on the Apostles, in which they received the Holy Spirit (breathed from Jesus). Therefore you cannot say that Scripture alone is God-breathed.
@@EmberBright2077 I think it makes more sense to say, Jesus breathed on the Apostles and they carried His words (the Gospel) to others. Since God-breathed in this sense means the transmiting of God's word whether through the breath (spoken word) or written word.
Thank you for all you do for our faith.
Jimmy crushed it - excellent work. Got me looking at Rome like 🤔🧐⛪️