Great points! I carry our kiddos/ groceries around on a traditional cargo bike (Yuba Mundo Lux) and besides price the other big factor for me was a desire for mechanical simplicity. The bicycle is beautiful to me in it's simplicity and I love being able to work on any part of it. An e-bike loses this for me since it layers on all sorts of sensors, motors, computers, etc.. For me, there is joy in propelling myself around using only my own power on this simple machine. I'm glad ebikes exist for those that need them and can afford them, but that's part of why I opted for the traditional (which we love!)
I too struggled when I was deciding on e-bike vs not... Eventually I decided to get the e-bike because my main goal was using the bike as transportation and not for exercise. The e-bike has allowed me to commute to work regularly for the last 3 months whereas for the last 10 years I was very hit or miss (more miss than hit :) ) Anyway, no regrets here on the e-bike purchase.
I'm 59 years old and just took the electric motor off of my commuter bike. I found it was becoming a crutch, over time watching my speed go up and my heart rate go down in my workout stats. Maybe it's human nature, but I found it was just too easy to push the boost a little more, then a little more, and a little more. One of the reasons I bike commute is to get some exercise so I was defeating the purpose. I originally put the motor on to use the bike for rehab and physical therapy for my arthritic hips and back, and the motor and accessories are now in a box in my bike room in case I ever need them again for that purpose.
My 35yo kid has a Bullit. Roloff 8speed (I think it’s 8), and front generator hub. He has two kids that have loved it. I have ridden it, it’s a tank! He had a hard time justifying the purchase, but with all the trips with the kids to school, parks, town concerts, grocery it really has earned it’s keep. We live in the western suburbs of Chicago. Cheers!
Hello, my name is Sla, I'm French and I wanted to thank you for this little video that will help me a lot when buying a bullitt: I can say right now that it won't be electric!! ! I'm going to announce the news to my legs.... Thanks again to you!
As an old retired old guy that has ridden many motorcycles and bicycles all my life I am happy with my city E bike . I have no children to worry about what they think or learn. When selling any used vehicle you walk away if you can that’s especially true of a two wheeled vehicle. Maybe when you get old/ older you can have an E bike ? Thanks for sharing your journey, your decision makes perfect sense for you at your time of life.
I’m sure an e bike will be in my future… and would love one for groggy days when I don’t feel like pedaling to work but also don’t feel like hopping into a car. Cheers !
@@JoshRomeroYT I’m like you, like to push my self physically, and want to take my kids on rides (like to and from school, the park, farmers market, library). I was originally looking at e-bikes like the Yuba Spicy Curry or SuperCargo, but you’ve made me question whether I’d be better off with a non-electric version. I live up a long hill with about 300’ of elevation gain over 3/4 mile. Live in Montana. Do you think that’s doable with a non-electric cargo bike with 80-90lbs of kids?
@@GoodSarsaparillaDepends on you. For some people, yes. If you think your health might be compromised because of conditions or whatever, maybe it would be better to get an e-bike.
As an avid cyclist(for years) I find most of these points bizarre and misleading. You do realize if you have an electric motor you don't have to use it? Additionally the extra weight(probably around 15 lbs) would just be added exercise. I am going to make a few counter points for you though. Theoretically its a mental battle whether or not you use your electric motor if you have it, it might tempt you to cheat. Because I use my bike for transportation and not for leisure there are many more benefits to have a motor, that mental battle is probably worth fighting. If you use it primarily for recreation I suppose outside of using it for your kids you would be better off getting a non cargo bike. How much maintenance the electric part requires is typically pretty negligible. In my experience hub motors over years require virtually no maintenance. At most you might have wires coming from the controller overheating or getting wet, so they might need to be replaced which isn't that crazy of a repair job, but that's speaking from a diy kit perspective, the wire management system is probably much better on a premade kit. Future proofing argument is bizarre as well. An electrified version of a bike typically is worth more than the non electrified version that's the same. Again even if the electric part is inferior it can still be used as a normal bike. Many electric bike parts are interchangeable as well. Some have some onboard bms systems that might make it a little iffy but for the most part most batteries can be repurposed. Although if your argument is more along the lines of you shouldn't use an ebike I would argue that it is better to purchase a non electric cargo bike then upgrade it to electric with a hub motor or perhaps a mid drive. If your going to commute or need to pickup furniture or an item over a long distance Like cabinets over a distance of 30-40 mile round trip you would need the electric motor, or if you want to give someone a ride home and get there in a reasonable time or it starts raining and you need to get home quickly or do anything more quickly its great to have that backup there.
There's even the argument to be made that an electric motor allows you to exercise harder, since you can ride further on your own power at first and then switch to the motor to get home.
Man these are some really dumb reasons. Other than price, everything else you said can be done with an e-bike, in fact an ebike would push you further to your limits than a normal bike. 1. An E-bike weighs more, so you have to push more, isn't that one of your reasons? You can turn pedal assist to 0 and do all the work yourself. 2. An ebike's funcionality isn't limited by its range. Again, you can pedal an ebike even when it's off; so what if you run out of battery? that's the whole point of them having pedals to begin with 3. future proof? what does that even mean? A regular bike will age the same as an ebike. 4. What the heck is that reasoning? news flash, you can go slow on an e-bike. What are all these non-problems just say you didn't wanna waste money on an e-bike. I feel like all those reasons are sorta gatekeepy, fear mongery stuff to keep others away from ebikes. You have a horribly skewed perspective on what an e-bike is and how it should be viewed.
I’ll start off by saying, price and parenting are both enough to justify the decision. But, motors require very little maintenance already, and any performance improvement would be slight. Batteries are modular and replaceable when they’re inevitably improved. Health is maximized when you have the right exertion to rest ratio, high intensity efforts to go above the motor cut off speed, balanced by low intensity to maintain speed on long trips. Also, the E bike provides a lot of assistance if sick, allowing you to meet your transportation needs without overexertion. Motor: The extra power also aids navigating dangerous situations (crossing streets). most E bikes are also functional without the battery or functional when it’s dead (though it is 30 pounds heavier 😅) plus you have to do some serious trips to kill an ebike battery
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for your comment! You have some great points ! Some that I realized when I got to test out a Tern Quick Haul earlier this year! Might make a video about my thoughts on this later! cheers!
#6 Non e-bikes are silent. My urban arrow has a distinct electric hum when I'm riding around. I turn off the motor any time I'm going down hill or coasting just for the silence.
So why would that be a reason to not get an e-bike? You literally proposed a solution to the "problem". which is a ridiculous problem tbh e-bikes are really quiet.
@@Gatitasecsii The motor and battery add about 50lbs to my bike. Meaning that running an e-cargo bike with motor off is a significantly greater workout than if you just didn't those components on your bike at all.
@@Gatitasecsii a regular bike gives you a moderate workout all the time and properly taken care of is silent all the time. With an e-bike you have more decisions to make about how much of a workout you want to do and how loud you want the motor to be. There are people out there who would rather not have to make those decisions, so they would buy a non-electric bike. (for reference I've got a Bosch cargo line motor on my bike and its very audible if there aren't any cars around)
Unless your level of fitness allows you to be able to push yourself and your bike to do all you need to do, an e-bike will allow everyone else to do more, go further and carry or pull more cargo. Although I am still finding where I live that the majority of people who buy e-bikes tend to be only using them for leisure and recreation rather than for utilitarian transport or commuting as I plan to (I haven't got one yet).
Agree with all of your reasons. For myself, I would add that I just don't want to have to plug in a bike. I want it (and me) to be completely independent of any grid or energy infrastructure.
You may know this already or if it applies to you, but there’s a recall on the Bullitt cargo bikes steering arms that were sold between 1st of August 2021 to March 2022.
@@JoshRomeroYT Could you do or did you do a video about your Bullitt? Like an overview of the bike & build spec? I looked through your videos and didn’t see it, unless I just missed it.
Also: frame integrated motors, like any bike part, will break, but they are the only bike part you won't be able to keep replacing. Even major companies like Shimano seem to change the size and shape of the bottom bracket cutout every year. Although tbh for me the deciding factor was cost.
As far as I know you can replace the shimanos on the eBullitt in case of defects with newer and better versions. There can be problems with the wiring, but this should also be solvable.
im 2 years into a NCM Milano for $1,400cdn. Pro's - throttle for winter commuting(8kms) is nice esp in deep snow. No heavy breathing in cold air. 120kms summer range. Not arriving sweaty/out of breath. 4yr old son loves the electric speed. Pulling Chariot or sled is effortless. It's paid off compared to other modes. Cons - throttle removed when my Shotgun seat is installed in summer. 70lbs Weight. 50kms winter range. 6yr old son gets motion sick w electric torque. My 2 kids just started riding on their own and do not complain of the slower pace. They both did a 8km group ride. I rarely use more then 1-3 on pedal assist when with kids. While commuting I have to be extra careful with the lvl 6 which gives 32km/hr speed. My wife says she just wants to upgrade to a bigger Chariot since we have a 3rd child coming this spring. I would love a cargo bike but it still seems too much. Electric or not.
A bit unrelated, but what surprised me was how much asphalt there is at the intersection at 3:05. Why waste so much space? It's just a sea of asphalt for no reason
Yeah it is a huge intersection although that road (cascade) in Colorado Springs is one of the nicest to ride on in downtown Colorado Springs. Tons of room for bikes and I think that’s what contributes to the wider Intersections.
Its a fair assessment you've done there, I'm pro e-bike and a big fan of the Bullitt Personally, 4 out 6 of those I can provide counter arguements too as much as you have put them in your video. But again subjective from my point of view as well.
Yeah it’s a tricky subject I think it is at the end of the day apples and oranges… both bikes seem similar but really are very different and both have different laws, assets, downsides Cheers !
Being old is on argument for the electric but with my knowledge and experience converting things to electric I’d still buy the non electric. If I were going to use it to haul goods and people around the city for a business I’d for sure want the electric. Done right you use the pedaling to control the electric motor so you still get some exercise. Converting to electric is not as daunting as one might think.
All very fair and valid points. I think that the future-proof-ability is the only thing I battle with myself on. I’m starting to come around to the idea that a bike, whether electric or manual, is future-proof as long as it’s overall construction can still accommodate manual components. No Pinion style gearbox cutouts are going to be future proof because it only takes one good idea to come along and change the way they’re made. Bikes with hub motors are probably going to be the best bet. Thanks for the well thought out video!
This is a good point when there is only one manufacturer that provides the specific part. So Pinion gearbox or any mid drive motor bike will be useless after the mount changes by the manufacturer and you wreck your gearbox/motor. But also "the industry" moves forward in standards too. The Original Bullitt still uses QR fork. But you are more likely to find hubs for that for a long time.
Yes but does the potential future affect other purchases too? We never know what's going to be updated quicker than we thought but chances are if the technology does change, you'll be able to buy a conversion kit and change it out/bring it to a mechanic to change it out for you
I lactually like both. On a gravel bike I would never consider a motor, but on a daily commuter or a cargo it feels ok for me. I drove the E6100 motor on the bullitt and was able to speed up to 30km/h. The motor fade out was really smooth and not like running against a wall. It depends also alot on the wheels. Since the bullitt has hard restrictions due to the frame you are limited to about 2" on the back. I think a few have good experiences with the Conti Contact Urban or even the Schwalbe Kojak or Marathon. We decided instead to buy a Riese+Müller Load 75. In Germany the price is pretty similar to a eBullitt with EP8, the passenger seat, side walls + base plate. Furthermore the Load has full suspension, supernova lights and the option to use light MTB tires (Schwalbe Smart Sam Plus - we want to use it also on rougher gravel roads in the woods). In the end it will replace a car and we live kinda rural which has also it's challenges. From your 5 reasons, I found your last one the best. This reason brought me into thinking, which is really nice for a youtube video. Thanks & that's my 2 cents.
Me too your channel. Looks like you live in Colorado springs? Thank you for your thoughts on this bike. Just recently became interested in these. I agree with your opinions.
Welcome to the channel ! Yeah based on the Springs ! Electric or non electric I think cargo bikes are awesome and well underrepresented in most of the US… that’s slowly changing though
@@JoshRomeroYT Those baksfiets type bikes in my opinion should really be called family bikes or kid's transporters instead of cargo bikes. Unless of course you actually needed it every day for actually transporting cargo! Otherwise, a large trailer that hooks on and off in a minute works just as well for once or twice a week at a fraction of the cost. Every bike can be a cargo bike. Although there are few things more wondrous than seeing a bike like yours with a load of children in the cargo area.
@@tconnolly9820 Riding with a trailer or riding a Bullitt, is night-and-day. They are in essence cargo bikes, because that was the original purpose of the long john design. I had a trailer, I now have a Bullitt. A trailer is a hack.
@@QBziZ Absolutely yes, a trailer IS a hack. But I have a couple of pretty large trailers and I can carry almost anything you can on your bullitt up to around 80 kg. Which would be the exception rather than the norm. Four out of five rides I don't need a trailer so I wouldn't need a cargo bike either. It's limited use wouldn't justify the exorbitant expense. I just have my bike to use as it is. Also I bought my trailers all for €131 or less each. Put any one of them on my €600 hybrid bicycle and I have essentially a €6,000 cargo bike. And I'm sure you paid a few thousand more than 6K for your bullitt if it's got the full Bosch system? If I needed a cargo bike 5 days of the week it would probably be worth the investment. Although I could get a used e-car with longer range than your bike for the same price or less. I look at this from a cost/benefit ratio and what I'm doing right now is very cost effective.
I couldn’t find an affordable front loader but i did get a long tail Yuba Mundo V4 for $590 that i’ve done a 14-34 freewheel upgrade to and it’s enough for 99% of hills where i live and it can tow a bike and haul all my tools and still have room for a small dog on top of that.
Good assessment. I was lucky, my nephew worked at the patent office and revealed the "Xtracyle" to me 20 years ago! Intrigued, I purchased one and put it on an old Gary Fisher mountain bike! Wow, I could haul many things! First I used child sests, then the "magic carpet" and "hooptie" to ride the grand children around. Many great memories were made on that bike! In my mid 60's now, living in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains, I think of getting an electric conversion. One could do that at anytime without much price difference compared to the "factory built" electric option. As one commentor stated, frame installed electric motors might prove to be a liability rather than an asset in the long term. That's just my "two cents".
Really like the list. Particularly the value over time point. Really even if you want an ebike version it might be better to convert a non-e version, that way you can more easily upgrade over time as motors and batteries get better. (Also conversions can usually get away with being faster, but always operate your vehicle at speeds which are safe for you and those around you) It's really interesting the bit about your kid's perspective, although especially here in the US where bike infrastructure is often a bit lacking and you are forced out into car lanes having that extra speed on tap to get in and out as quickly as possible might be good.
If you are : * carrying small loads * young * not doing other, very exhausting, activities * always riding on flat stuff * have other means of transportation ( like a car ) Then you can perfectly do non electric. I electrified mine, after five years of ownership, because of all those conditions, none apply to me.
I'm still not against ebikes, but e-cargo bikes are definitely less interesting to me because I didn't know they made normal ones till now lol. If it's in my price range I might get one now..
This was very interesting. Me and my wife are thinking about buying a cargo bike, mostly for hauling our two kids. We live 5 km (roughly 3 miles) from school and 8 km from the grocery stores. Would you consider such a distance to be doable daily on a non electric cargo bike? Also, I would be very interested to hear about your average speeds when riding the cargo bike. Greetings from Finland!
I chose a regular bullitt because the motors have proprietary mounts and you bet that they change them as time goes along and you can't buy the motors or parts from the manufacturer.
great points, Josh. As a 65yr old Cyclist I moved from e-bie back to bio-bike /Gravel) a few years ago and never regretted it for exactly the reasons you describe. Mainly, there is so much less that can go wrong on a bio bike than on an e bike. So, I agree with all your arguments, but nevertheless I will build an electric X Bullitt with an aftermarket motor (the main difference between ready-to-ride ebikes and DIY ones is that you avoid vendor lock-in i.e with regards to the battery choice if you build your own one) because its goal will be to accompany groups of gravel bikers over the Alps and carry their luggage. The bike will have a large battery combined with solar panels for very long reach even in alpine conditions with heavy luggage. And it will have the best brakes you can fit to the bullitt.
Overhere in the Netherlands, electric bikes are restricted at top speed (25 km/h) A non-electric Bullitt can easily be driven above that speed if you feel like it (and when it's safe to do so). Sometimes I catch up with road bikes a do 32KM/h in their wheels. Won't happen with an e-version 🙂 Oh, and if you fit a 2" tyre on the back and 1.15" in front, hardpack gravel is lots of fun ;-)
@@JoshRomeroYT , in front: Schwale Big Ben plus (20x2.15). Rear: Continental TopContact 50mm. That's the biggest the frame will take! Fenders still fit but I prefer riding without them.
This looks like it is is exactly what my wife and I want to purchase. Thanks! My wife is not a bicyclist, in fact, she is a chain smoker.. but I love to bicycle. She has said that she would love to bicycle with me as long as she doesn't have to ride a bicycle. Odd, yes, but this is perfect.. I'm close to retiring, but still love to bicycle. I do NOT want the electric motor, so this video really hit home with me. Thanks!
I really love how point 4 about canyon's perspective. I wouldn't have thought it myself but can strongly relate. A part of the ideas of thinking of cargo bikes, and specifically long John type, is the child's view as you ride. "Not just bikes" channel shows this very well compared to cars.
Thanks for summing things up. Your point is exactly why I'd love to buy a pure leg powered tern HSD if it was possible. Nowadays one can easily electrify (or power up with gasoline mower engine) any bike. De-electrifying a dead e-bike for pedalling purposes just does not work at least for the pedal axis motor design at all
Good point with kid's perspective. Never would have thought that a kid might get a little frustrated when he realises he's not as fast on his bike. But then again you can ride ebikes slow, you can also turn off the motor and pedal using your muscle power. For me it's the cost that ultimately crosses any cargo ebike off the list. I would buy non electric used one and convert it to an ebike with bafang or tsdz mid drive motor.
Great video! Just what I needed! As I’m looking at buying a Bullitt! I will also go non electric! Maybe put Mtb 2 chainrings to make it easier for the hills! As I will be carrying my boarder collie dog 🐶 sometimes!
I would like to add #4a) Your own perspective. I just plain feel better when I’m flying along on my own power, or when I make it to the top of a big hill with a load of groceries 😊. If I can pass an e-bike, that’s just gravy.
I like this video a lot. It speaks to me because I’m in the process of trying to buy a LVH and I’m in a hilly area so I’m thinking my only option should be is the battery but I like what you had to say but it doesn’t get me away from I’m in a hilly area. Nobody has any thoughts on it Please share
This is one of the oldest debates, along with Hub/Mid-drive or Cadence/Torque sensor, in e-biking. An e-bikes with a dead battery is still a bike. The weight of a motor, controller and battery is less impactful on a cargo bike. I do try to avoid integrated electrical components, displays for example, because of their usual custom nature.
I'm totally with you there. I think that e-bikes are OK for elderly or disabled people who still want to continue to cycle but may need a little help now, but I can't understand why a normally fit and healthy active adult would consider buying an e-bike as their first choice for transport. Whilst they are a much better option than owning a car; to me they are the equivalent of riding a two-wheeled mobility scooter.
Hello from Finland! Thank you for your video! You have interesting points, and this video gave me some new insights of cargo bikes. I’m wondering, how is your winter? Is it snowy? And how hilly is your area? My hilly area with long, cold winters had made me think only about having e cargo. Maybe it could be doable with a non e if I could take it a bit slower when climbing up the hills 😁
I have both electric and analog, and both have their appeal. The cost is a really convincing one. I looked up a standard Bullitt and they're over $3,500. I almost fainted when I was negotiating the details on my Azor custom build bike, which is coming to about $2,000. Almost twice that for one bike would probably give me a heart attack.
I have a gravel bike with huge backpack on it(the biggest I could found), which is technically is my cargo bike as well 😂. It is more than enough to carry most of the things and in worst case I can just add another backup on it. I don't have kids, so serves it porpoise well
i got a non electric singlespeed Christiania cargo bike tonhaul my old mother from her nurning home to her old house (6km trip each way) and also take used building materials and other stuff to the recycling/dump (8km each way) during the oandemic, and it was the cheapest option. No problem, even with some hills on country roads.
I had an ebike and it was not faster than a normal non-assisted bike. When it hit 25km/h that's it. When the motor cut off it was ridiculously heavy to pedal. This was a 3000€ ebike with shimano steps 6100 motor and nexus 5 hub. So maybe it depends on the rider but a non-assisted bike runs way more freely and can pass the 25km/h easily.
I’ve ridden a lot of bikes in my life, had (or better still have) an eBike which is a combination of a road bike and a city bike, which is great, it’s very light and all that, BUT over the year I owned it now, I realized, that it just won’t fit my life. I‘m living completely car free, this thing can’t pull a trailer without me getting feared that it might snap, the electronics, even though from a very reputable company, are broken just about once a month and also I have a roadbike, it’s 34yo, but it’s still a roadbike. Get the same out of it as the eBike with half the effort. I have a similarly old Mountainbike that I got from my Dad and I have a folding bike to take with me on train rides. That pretty much covers everything. But I’m finding myself getting more groceries for gatherings, hauling a lot of stuff etc, so I thought I might sell my eBike soon, the last time I’ve ridden it was mid November, because it won’t turn off and turns itself back on if it auto shuts down. So I’m planning on getting myself a cargo bike, I’m thinking about the Babboe city, since it is the absolute cheapest I can get new and it is rocksolid with its components. The simplicity is what I like! Just wanted to get a sanity check because everyone thinks I’m an idiot for getting a non motorized cargo bike or even a cargo bike at all! They said „just get a car instead“, but this won’t happen as long as I’m a living and breathing creature. Don’t need that. Especially when we have flatrate public transport for 50€ per month.
1. Health - Personally I'd buy a cargo bike as a better car replacement, I have an ebike and I make so many trips I otherwise wouldn't if it was non-electric. There's studies backing this up, those with ebikes tend to get more exercise overall. I think you're just seriously hardcore and are the exception and max out your exercise no matter the situation which is impressive. 2. Longer rides - With already 1.5hrs in the saddle per day just in commuting, longer rides wouldn't be a plus for me. 3. Future proof - totally agree here. Even with lower futureproofness it's still cheaper, healthier, lower impact than car ownership. 4. Kids perspective. Very valid. I don't have kids though. 5. Price. Another great point. All the more reason to build my own, do it cheaply, and in a way I can repair it if the electronics fail. (or go non-electric).
Hi, thanks for your videos, they helped me in my research for a cargo bike to go around town with my 1 yo. I ordered a bullit and I’m now waiting for it to arrive from denmark. Would be great to see a video on how how happy (or not) are you with the bullit six months in. I see you did the commuter video with the bullit, but just as an overall family/cargo purpose bike. Thank you.
Thanks Trent! It is a great bike the only downside is the storage you need for it as its rather large. If storage is not an issue than its a great choice. Cheers!
Although I really appreciate the extra power that you get with an electric motor, since I am feeling my age lately, I tend to agree with you on the future proof point. In general, the more complex and advanced a technology is, the faster it becomes obsolete, in my opinion. What happens when you can no longer get parts for your older model motor? Or something happens with the international supply chain? In 10 years time you could be left with a heavy lump of a cargo bike with no way of powering it. I have a basic Bullitt and if I want to I can add a rear wheel with a hub motor and a battery pack. If anything goes wrong or I want to enjoy a bit of a workout, I just revert to my normal wheel. The extra weight of a motor on the rear wheel is balanced out by the cargo load up front.
Yes Bafang has some great mid drive options ive seen on bullitts and that's probably what I would do... I think a lot of people took this video the wrong way and defend their electric cargo bikes.. But I was just trying to make a point on why I chose analog... if the bafang motor gets over the years chances are you can update it with a new motor as opposed to the mid drive motors offered stock with the E bullitt. that's all I was saying and you seem to have caught my point ! So I thank you for seeing that!
Fair points that I could see myself making. I wonder is your area generally flat? I feel like I would go for a non electric Bullitt if not for the hills in my area which has me eyeing an urban arrow instead if/when I make jump to a cargo bike.
You’re 100%correct, technology does not age well. Another reason is that e-bikes are about to become the new recipients of registration and insurance regulations, just wait for it and some combinations just aren’t going to be allowed. They’ll be grandfathered in, but it will still be there and you’ll have to deal with it. The best thing I ever heard is if you don’t use it, you lose it. It applies to me because I had a stroke and was considering a recumbent bike and was told keeping your balance on a regular bike that you would lose on a recumbent bike and the exercise you get with an ebike is marginal at best.
Question - How hilly is your area and how do you handle hills (if there are any) with your non-electric? I live in a volcanic area the gradient is steep and often 😅
@@orangespy it’s hilly! If the gearing is right just slow and steady. I have to give myself plenty of extra time on the commute if I choose to take the cargo bike
@@JoshRomeroYT thanks. Wise words. I have time constraints + hills. I think I’m trying to achieve too much with a bike without compromise. I’ll keep thinking and asking questions 😁
Acoustic bikes are more resilient, that would be my biggest reason. Supply chain issues combined with the planned obsolescence of nearly everything electronic these days means I would only feel comfortable using an e-bike if I was able to afford stockpiling replacement parts. At the very least I would want to have an acoustic bike in the garage as a backup for when the e-motor inevitably went out.
" Supply chain issues combined with the planned obsolescence of nearly everything electronic these days" I get the sentiment but that's really not applicable unless you go for the insanely highly priced electric cargo bikes with systems like Bosch concerning the 'planned obsolescence'. And you do realize that when an e-bike is out of juice, it's still a bike with pedals?
There's something contradictory about buying an electric bicycle, is it sustainable, eco, if you need to put electronics on it that will eventually be superseded and may render your bike unusable.
Thanks for sharing. It's very inspiration. May I ask any recommendation on the speed drive selections, please? I was wondering on the Shimano 2*11 speed, as my QUARQ power meter on my current tri-bike does; and the local suggested the cargo bike is better fit with 1*12 Sram mountain bike system. It's totally out of my knowledge pool,, would it be a sufficient working if 50-34 chain ring front, 11-34 cassette rear, as in 2*11 shimano system on a bullitt cargo bike?
I looked at the e cargo bikes. It seems like a pretty practical alternative to a car, but I dont loke the idea of the battery and power electronics being essentially a consumable item. Id rather just work harder on my errands i guess.
Well, batteries are consumables, that's just a fact of life, the same way gasoline is a consumable. When you compare the cost per mile however is when you see that battery tech has surpassed gasoline for these kinds of light vehicles. A 200 dollar battery can last you a good few years depending on the user, while 200 bucks of gas doesn't get you that far anymore.
I really appreciated your inclusion of Canyon's perspective. Something I wouldn't have immediately thought of. :) My mom recently got an e-bike for a good deal...not a cargo bike. She loves it! She has rheumatoid arthritis and tries to ride her regular bike. But I think the e-bike helps her quite a bit. Really makes me happy to hear her share about it. :) As always, thanks for sharing!
I would love a non electric cargo haha but I would collapse with local hills lol. I just physically can not cycle up those hills with 2 kids and bunch of stuff ) I just hardly make it on the highest pedal assistance ))))
Thank You for talking about Slow Cycling = just as important as Slow Food and Slow Money. Question: over here in the Ardennes, we have hills...what is like cycling/pushing a Bullitt up hills?
Play with the transmission ratios! The Bullitt on itself is a pretty light bicycle. If you have a dérailleur system, you can change ratios as you like, maybe mount a triple in the front. If you choose Alfine, it depends on your body weight... if you're light enough, you might play with the primary drive ratio (chainwheel and sprocket) as long as you're willing to give up on Shimano's warranty. Their 1.9:1 minimum ratio seems to rely on a 100Nm limit on the input torque, and is probably calculated for a rather heavy person, so that they can cover all eventualities. If your own weight is significantly less, you can go significantly lower than 1.9 before you reach those 100 Nm - I saw a table somewhere, just can't find the URL anymore, that stated 1.2:1 for 60 kg... And I'm a big advocate for Slow Sex too ;-)
I couldn't use one of those at all, electric or otherwise, local government here put chicanes on the shared footpath/cycleways to stop abuse by motorcyclists. Result is it's impossible to use that style of cargo bike (or a tandem) on them, you physically couldn't get them through.
Point #3 alone was reason enough not to go for an electric bike for me. Value after time is one thing, but also getting spare parts for some generation old bikes is getting more and more a problem. Non EBike will not have this issue, chains and brake pads will be compatible a long time.
The algo- rhythm churned up your commute to work video. Which I thought, huh. That’s odd, I don’t commute to work it’s a ten second walk or a four hour ride to work for me. (I live on thé farm!) then you mentioned a Bullitt. Ah, that’s why it’s a recommendation vid. And this particular one really piqued my interest as I could use one for picking parts up. Any excuse to ride a bike at work rather than burn fuel. I’m there. I’ll walk miles carrying posts and fencing tools rather than use a vehicle. It’s what’s made my body robust over the years. But as I’m getting older I feel a cargo bike would be handy. I could carry more. So i mentioned it to a ride buddy and he threw his arms up in despair, not because I brought up the subject of a cargo bike, but because I wanted a human powered one and not an e- motor. Some of your points have convinced me I’m making the right choice 👍☘️
I think the future-proof argument probably doesn’t stand up to evidence. I can’t think of any use case that a typical 80+ nM cargo motor can’t do, but I can think of many a non-electric cargo bike will be a chore or impossible to do. If you take care of your battery and replace it every X years when its capacity is insufficient you can probably get many many years out of an electric bike. Maybe in 10 years tech will be drastically Better but you’ll have benefited those 10 years. Also the kids ‘perspective’ thing … just use the eco 50% assist setting when you’re going up hill, or turn off the assist. All in all, appreciate the video but half the arguments were very weak IMHO
You never mentioned if you have a car so I’m guessing you do. I don’t, so owning en ebike instead makes more sense than for people who already have a car. Let’s me get away from the city more easily.
Pretty wise thinking! About the "future-proof" concept, my son made this remark when I talked about the possibility of me buying an electric cargo-bike: if you get a factory e-cargo-bike, you're stuck with a frame made for a certain engine type - if the engine dies or gets superceded by its followers, you may not be able to fit the new engine of your choice in that same frame... Add to that the ugly habit of Shimano (to my knowledge the only e-motor manufacturer chosen by LarryvsHarry) to throw away all their "old" stock almost as soon as they release a new version of anything, and I wouldn't be surprised their next generation motor will not fit your frame when your actual motor gives up in a few years... All this pleads towards retrofitting your electric assistance with parts that fit "standard" bike norms, whether it's hub motor or bottom bracket motor. However, I don't agree with russvolk8300 's argument about the Pinion-gearbox-frame, as I have the impression Pinion is, like Rohloff, built to last and probably not too likely to be undergoing any radical design changes. But I might be mistaken. If I am not mistaken, a Pinion-frame with a (later retrofit) rear hub motor may well be the ultimate solution - if you can pay for it ;-) I just bought a used Bullitt, consciously without electric assistance, and I'll try to rely on my own legs as long as possible (I'm 56 now), and in the meantime keep an eye out for the best retrofit-solutions on the market, should my cargo ambitions outgrow my physical capabilities... One more argument against electric cargobikes, if you're physcally fit enough to do without: even if the conditions in which you're riding don't call for assistance all of the time, the weight of motor and battery will still force you to use it if you can't just take it out and stuff it in a cupboard...
Thank you. I'm looking at buying a cargo bike but don't want to go down the e road and have been struggling to find anything that isn't electric. Bicycles should be human powered in my opinion.
Great points! I carry our kiddos/ groceries around on a traditional cargo bike (Yuba Mundo Lux) and besides price the other big factor for me was a desire for mechanical simplicity. The bicycle is beautiful to me in it's simplicity and I love being able to work on any part of it. An e-bike loses this for me since it layers on all sorts of sensors, motors, computers, etc..
For me, there is joy in propelling myself around using only my own power on this simple machine.
I'm glad ebikes exist for those that need them and can afford them, but that's part of why I opted for the traditional (which we love!)
I too struggled when I was deciding on e-bike vs not... Eventually I decided to get the e-bike because my main goal was using the bike as transportation and not for exercise. The e-bike has allowed me to commute to work regularly for the last 3 months whereas for the last 10 years I was very hit or miss (more miss than hit :) ) Anyway, no regrets here on the e-bike purchase.
I'm 59 years old and just took the electric motor off of my commuter bike. I found it was becoming a crutch, over time watching my speed go up and my heart rate go down in my workout stats. Maybe it's human nature, but I found it was just too easy to push the boost a little more, then a little more, and a little more. One of the reasons I bike commute is to get some exercise so I was defeating the purpose. I originally put the motor on to use the bike for rehab and physical therapy for my arthritic hips and back, and the motor and accessories are now in a box in my bike room in case I ever need them again for that purpose.
My 35yo kid has a Bullit. Roloff 8speed (I think it’s 8), and front generator hub. He has two kids that have loved it. I have ridden it, it’s a tank! He had a hard time justifying the purchase, but with all the trips with the kids to school, parks, town concerts, grocery it really has earned it’s keep. We live in the western suburbs of Chicago. Cheers!
Hello, my name is Sla, I'm French and I wanted to thank you for this little video that will help me a lot when buying a bullitt: I can say right now that it won't be electric!! ! I'm going to announce the news to my legs.... Thanks again to you!
As an old retired old guy that has ridden many motorcycles and bicycles all my life I am happy with my city E bike . I have no children to worry about what they think or learn. When selling any used vehicle you walk away if you can that’s especially true of a two wheeled vehicle. Maybe when you get old/ older you can have an E bike ? Thanks for sharing your journey, your decision makes perfect sense for you at your time of life.
I’m sure an e bike will be in my future… and would love one for groggy days when I don’t feel like pedaling to work but also don’t feel like hopping into a car.
Cheers !
@@JoshRomeroYT I’m like you, like to push my self physically, and want to take my kids on rides (like to and from school, the park, farmers market, library). I was originally looking at e-bikes like the Yuba Spicy Curry or SuperCargo, but you’ve made me question whether I’d be better off with a non-electric version. I live up a long hill with about 300’ of elevation gain over 3/4 mile. Live in Montana. Do you think that’s doable with a non-electric cargo bike with 80-90lbs of kids?
@@GoodSarsaparillaDepends on you. For some people, yes. If you think your health might be compromised because of conditions or whatever, maybe it would be better to get an e-bike.
As an avid cyclist(for years) I find most of these points bizarre and misleading.
You do realize if you have an electric motor you don't have to use it? Additionally the extra weight(probably around 15 lbs) would just be added exercise. I am going to make a few counter points for you though. Theoretically its a mental battle whether or not you use your electric motor if you have it, it might tempt you to cheat. Because I use my bike for transportation and not for leisure there are many more benefits to have a motor, that mental battle is probably worth fighting. If you use it primarily for recreation I suppose outside of using it for your kids you would be better off getting a non cargo bike.
How much maintenance the electric part requires is typically pretty negligible. In my experience hub motors over years require virtually no maintenance. At most you might have wires coming from the controller overheating or getting wet, so they might need to be replaced which isn't that crazy of a repair job, but that's speaking from a diy kit perspective, the wire management system is probably much better on a premade kit.
Future proofing argument is bizarre as well. An electrified version of a bike typically is worth more than the non electrified version that's the same. Again even if the electric part is inferior it can still be used as a normal bike. Many electric bike parts are interchangeable as well. Some have some onboard bms systems that might make it a little iffy but for the most part most batteries can be repurposed. Although if your argument is more along the lines of you shouldn't use an ebike I would argue that it is better to purchase a non electric cargo bike then upgrade it to electric with a hub motor or perhaps a mid drive. If your going to commute or need to pickup furniture or an item over a long distance Like cabinets over a distance of 30-40 mile round trip you would need the electric motor, or if you want to give someone a ride home and get there in a reasonable time or it starts raining and you need to get home quickly or do anything more quickly its great to have that backup there.
There's even the argument to be made that an electric motor allows you to exercise harder, since you can ride further on your own power at first and then switch to the motor to get home.
Hi! I was looking for pros and cons about e-bikes, so it's my first time in your channel and I thank you for giving me new approach.
Wam.
Man these are some really dumb reasons.
Other than price, everything else you said can be done with an e-bike, in fact an ebike would push you further to your limits than a normal bike.
1. An E-bike weighs more, so you have to push more, isn't that one of your reasons? You can turn pedal assist to 0 and do all the work yourself.
2. An ebike's funcionality isn't limited by its range. Again, you can pedal an ebike even when it's off; so what if you run out of battery? that's the whole point of them having pedals to begin with
3. future proof? what does that even mean? A regular bike will age the same as an ebike.
4. What the heck is that reasoning? news flash, you can go slow on an e-bike. What are all these non-problems
just say you didn't wanna waste money on an e-bike. I feel like all those reasons are sorta gatekeepy, fear mongery stuff to keep others away from ebikes. You have a horribly skewed perspective on what an e-bike is and how it should be viewed.
I’ll start off by saying, price and parenting are both enough to justify the decision.
But, motors require very little maintenance already, and any performance improvement would be slight. Batteries are modular and replaceable when they’re inevitably improved.
Health is maximized when you have the right exertion to rest ratio, high intensity efforts to go above the motor cut off speed, balanced by low intensity to maintain speed on long trips. Also, the E bike provides a lot of assistance if sick, allowing you to meet your transportation needs without overexertion.
Motor: The extra power also aids navigating dangerous situations (crossing streets).
most E bikes are also functional without the battery or functional when it’s dead (though it is 30 pounds heavier 😅) plus you have to do some serious trips to kill an ebike battery
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for your comment! You have some great points ! Some that I realized when I got to test out a Tern Quick Haul earlier this year! Might make a video about my thoughts on this later! cheers!
#6 Non e-bikes are silent. My urban arrow has a distinct electric hum when I'm riding around. I turn off the motor any time I'm going down hill or coasting just for the silence.
Haha nice hack! Yeah I’ve always wanted to give one of those a spin I see them in Denver when I’m up there !
So why would that be a reason to not get an e-bike? You literally proposed a solution to the "problem". which is a ridiculous problem tbh e-bikes are really quiet.
@@Gatitasecsii The motor and battery add about 50lbs to my bike. Meaning that running an e-cargo bike with motor off is a significantly greater workout than if you just didn't those components on your bike at all.
@@ianmcgregor8152 exactly, and that refutes like 3 points from this video.
(I do the same btw, motor off for workout, motor on for commute)
@@Gatitasecsii a regular bike gives you a moderate workout all the time and properly taken care of is silent all the time. With an e-bike you have more decisions to make about how much of a workout you want to do and how loud you want the motor to be. There are people out there who would rather not have to make those decisions, so they would buy a non-electric bike. (for reference I've got a Bosch cargo line motor on my bike and its very audible if there aren't any cars around)
Unless your level of fitness allows you to be able to push yourself and your bike to do all you need to do, an e-bike will allow everyone else to do more, go further and carry or pull more cargo.
Although I am still finding where I live that the majority of people who buy e-bikes tend to be only using them for leisure and recreation rather than for utilitarian transport or commuting as I plan to (I haven't got one yet).
Agree with all of your reasons. For myself, I would add that I just don't want to have to plug in a bike. I want it (and me) to be completely independent of any grid or energy infrastructure.
I understand the sentiment, and I’m the same way sometimes, but You don’t need to plug it in, you can just ride the bike without the battery
Some solar panels and a battery bank and you can ride for 'free'.
They're called solar panels and have been around for a while...
@@jeremycrabbe7721 But then you carry some extra weight for no reason.
You may know this already or if it applies to you, but there’s a recall on the Bullitt cargo bikes steering arms that were sold between 1st of August 2021 to March 2022.
Hi Lou ! Yeah my steering arm wasn’t one of the ones recalled. I made sure to check with splendid cycles. Cheers !
@@JoshRomeroYT Could you do or did you do a video about your Bullitt? Like an overview of the bike & build spec? I looked through your videos and didn’t see it, unless I just missed it.
Also: frame integrated motors, like any bike part, will break, but they are the only bike part you won't be able to keep replacing. Even major companies like Shimano seem to change the size and shape of the bottom bracket cutout every year. Although tbh for me the deciding factor was cost.
As far as I know you can replace the shimanos on the eBullitt in case of defects with newer and better versions. There can be problems with the wiring, but this should also be solvable.
im 2 years into a NCM Milano for $1,400cdn.
Pro's - throttle for winter commuting(8kms) is nice esp in deep snow. No heavy breathing in cold air. 120kms summer range. Not arriving sweaty/out of breath. 4yr old son loves the electric speed. Pulling Chariot or sled is effortless. It's paid off compared to other modes.
Cons - throttle removed when my Shotgun seat is installed in summer. 70lbs Weight. 50kms winter range. 6yr old son gets motion sick w electric torque.
My 2 kids just started riding on their own and do not complain of the slower pace. They both did a 8km group ride. I rarely use more then 1-3 on pedal assist when with kids. While commuting I have to be extra careful with the lvl 6 which gives 32km/hr speed. My wife says she just wants to upgrade to a bigger Chariot since we have a 3rd child coming this spring.
I would love a cargo bike but it still seems too much. Electric or not.
A bit unrelated, but what surprised me was how much asphalt there is at the intersection at 3:05. Why waste so much space? It's just a sea of asphalt for no reason
Yeah it is a huge intersection although that road (cascade) in Colorado Springs is one of the nicest to ride on in downtown Colorado Springs. Tons of room for bikes and I think that’s what contributes to the wider Intersections.
Its a fair assessment you've done there, I'm pro e-bike and a big fan of the Bullitt
Personally, 4 out 6 of those I can provide counter arguements too as much as you have put them in your video. But again subjective from my point of view as well.
Yeah it’s a tricky subject I think it is at the end of the day apples and oranges… both bikes seem similar but really are very different and both have different laws, assets, downsides
Cheers !
Being old is on argument for the electric but with my knowledge and experience converting things to electric I’d still buy the non electric. If I were going to use it to haul goods and people around the city for a business I’d for sure want the electric. Done right you use the pedaling to control the electric motor so you still get some exercise. Converting to electric is not as daunting as one might think.
Totally agree if it was a business bike and e version is the way to go !!
I agree on the business, but not on the old (I’m old - I like going uphill 😃)
All very fair and valid points. I think that the future-proof-ability is the only thing I battle with myself on. I’m starting to come around to the idea that a bike, whether electric or manual, is future-proof as long as it’s overall construction can still accommodate manual components. No Pinion style gearbox cutouts are going to be future proof because it only takes one good idea to come along and change the way they’re made. Bikes with hub motors are probably going to be the best bet. Thanks for the well thought out video!
This is a good point when there is only one manufacturer that provides the specific part. So Pinion gearbox or any mid drive motor bike will be useless after the mount changes by the manufacturer and you wreck your gearbox/motor. But also "the industry" moves forward in standards too. The Original Bullitt still uses QR fork. But you are more likely to find hubs for that for a long time.
Yes but does the potential future affect other purchases too? We never know what's going to be updated quicker than we thought but chances are if the technology does change, you'll be able to buy a conversion kit and change it out/bring it to a mechanic to change it out for you
I lactually like both. On a gravel bike I would never consider a motor, but on a daily commuter or a cargo it feels ok for me. I drove the E6100 motor on the bullitt and was able to speed up to 30km/h. The motor fade out was really smooth and not like running against a wall. It depends also alot on the wheels. Since the bullitt has hard restrictions due to the frame you are limited to about 2" on the back. I think a few have good experiences with the Conti Contact Urban or even the Schwalbe Kojak or Marathon. We decided instead to buy a Riese+Müller Load 75. In Germany the price is pretty similar to a eBullitt with EP8, the passenger seat, side walls + base plate. Furthermore the Load has full suspension, supernova lights and the option to use light MTB tires (Schwalbe Smart Sam Plus - we want to use it also on rougher gravel roads in the woods). In the end it will replace a car and we live kinda rural which has also it's challenges. From your 5 reasons, I found your last one the best. This reason brought me into thinking, which is really nice for a youtube video. Thanks & that's my 2 cents.
Me too your channel. Looks like you live in Colorado springs?
Thank you for your thoughts on this bike. Just recently became interested in these.
I agree with your opinions.
Welcome to the channel ! Yeah based on the Springs ! Electric or non electric I think cargo bikes are awesome and well underrepresented in most of the US… that’s slowly changing though
@@JoshRomeroYT Those baksfiets type bikes in my opinion should really be called family bikes or kid's transporters instead of cargo bikes.
Unless of course you actually needed it every day for actually transporting cargo!
Otherwise, a large trailer that hooks on and off in a minute works just as well for once or twice a week at a fraction of the cost. Every bike can be a cargo bike.
Although there are few things more wondrous than seeing a bike like yours with a load of children in the cargo area.
@@tconnolly9820 Riding with a trailer or riding a Bullitt, is night-and-day. They are in essence cargo bikes, because that was the original purpose of the long john design. I had a trailer, I now have a Bullitt. A trailer is a hack.
@@QBziZ Absolutely yes, a trailer IS a hack. But I have a couple of pretty large trailers and I can carry almost anything you can on your bullitt up to around 80 kg. Which would be the exception rather than the norm. Four out of five rides I don't need a trailer so I wouldn't need a cargo bike either. It's limited use wouldn't justify the exorbitant expense. I just have my bike to use as it is.
Also I bought my trailers all for €131 or less each.
Put any one of them on my €600 hybrid bicycle and I have essentially a €6,000 cargo bike. And I'm sure you paid a few thousand more than 6K for your bullitt if it's got the full Bosch system?
If I needed a cargo bike 5 days of the week it would probably be worth the investment. Although I could get a used e-car with longer range than your bike for the same price or less.
I look at this from a cost/benefit ratio and what I'm doing right now is very cost effective.
@@tconnolly9820 I paid about 3300 euro for my Bullitt plus 620 just now for the e-bike kit. I have no car, only bikes.
I couldn’t find an affordable front loader but i did get a long tail Yuba Mundo V4 for $590 that i’ve done a 14-34 freewheel upgrade to and it’s enough for 99% of hills where i live and it can tow a bike and haul all my tools and still have room for a small dog on top of that.
Good assessment. I was lucky, my nephew worked at the patent office and revealed the "Xtracyle" to me 20 years ago! Intrigued, I purchased one and put it on an old Gary Fisher mountain bike! Wow, I could haul many things! First I used child sests, then the "magic carpet" and "hooptie" to ride the grand children around. Many great memories were made on that bike! In my mid 60's now, living in the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains, I think of getting an electric conversion. One could do that at anytime without much price difference compared to the "factory built" electric option. As one commentor stated, frame installed electric motors might prove to be a liability rather than an asset in the long term. That's just my "two cents".
Really like the list. Particularly the value over time point. Really even if you want an ebike version it might be better to convert a non-e version, that way you can more easily upgrade over time as motors and batteries get better. (Also conversions can usually get away with being faster, but always operate your vehicle at speeds which are safe for you and those around you) It's really interesting the bit about your kid's perspective, although especially here in the US where bike infrastructure is often a bit lacking and you are forced out into car lanes having that extra speed on tap to get in and out as quickly as possible might be good.
If you are :
* carrying small loads
* young
* not doing other, very exhausting, activities
* always riding on flat stuff
* have other means of transportation ( like a car )
Then you can perfectly do non electric.
I electrified mine, after five years of ownership, because of all those conditions, none apply to me.
I'm still not against ebikes, but e-cargo bikes are definitely less interesting to me because I didn't know they made normal ones till now lol. If it's in my price range I might get one now..
This was very interesting. Me and my wife are thinking about buying a cargo bike, mostly for hauling our two kids. We live 5 km (roughly 3 miles) from school and 8 km from the grocery stores. Would you consider such a distance to be doable daily on a non electric cargo bike?
Also, I would be very interested to hear about your average speeds when riding the cargo bike.
Greetings from Finland!
Are you each hauling a kid or just using one bike?
I chose a regular bullitt because the motors have proprietary mounts and you bet that they change them as time goes along and you can't buy the motors or parts from the manufacturer.
great points, Josh. As a 65yr old Cyclist I moved from e-bie back to bio-bike /Gravel) a few years ago and never regretted it for exactly the reasons you describe. Mainly, there is so much less that can go wrong on a bio bike than on an e bike. So, I agree with all your arguments, but nevertheless I will build an electric X Bullitt with an aftermarket motor (the main difference between ready-to-ride ebikes and DIY ones is that you avoid vendor lock-in i.e with regards to the battery choice if you build your own one) because its goal will be to accompany groups of gravel bikers over the Alps and carry their luggage. The bike will have a large battery combined with solar panels for very long reach even in alpine conditions with heavy luggage. And it will have the best brakes you can fit to the bullitt.
Overhere in the Netherlands, electric bikes are restricted at top speed (25 km/h) A non-electric Bullitt can easily be driven above that speed if you feel like it (and when it's safe to do so). Sometimes I catch up with road bikes a do 32KM/h in their wheels. Won't happen with an e-version 🙂 Oh, and if you fit a 2" tyre on the back and 1.15" in front, hardpack gravel is lots of fun ;-)
Nice ! Curious what tires your running on your Bullitt !?!
@@JoshRomeroYT , in front: Schwale Big Ben plus (20x2.15). Rear: Continental TopContact 50mm. That's the biggest the frame will take! Fenders still fit but I prefer riding without them.
I have an eBullitt which is restricted to 25kmh and hitting 32 kmh on the flat is easy.
So ignorant!!! You can pedal an E-bike past its limits!
how does your perspective holds up today? I’m in a point of getting a cargo bike, and mechanical version is quite tempting.
This looks like it is is exactly what my wife and I want to purchase. Thanks! My wife is not a bicyclist, in fact, she is a chain smoker.. but I love to bicycle. She has said that she would love to bicycle with me as long as she doesn't have to ride a bicycle. Odd, yes, but this is perfect.. I'm close to retiring, but still love to bicycle. I do NOT want the electric motor, so this video really hit home with me. Thanks!
I really love how point 4 about canyon's perspective. I wouldn't have thought it myself but can strongly relate.
A part of the ideas of thinking of cargo bikes, and specifically long John type, is the child's view as you ride. "Not just bikes" channel shows this very well compared to cars.
Thanks for summing things up. Your point is exactly why I'd love to buy a pure leg powered tern HSD if it was possible. Nowadays one can easily electrify (or power up with gasoline mower engine) any bike. De-electrifying a dead e-bike for pedalling purposes just does not work at least for the pedal axis motor design at all
Good point with kid's perspective. Never would have thought that a kid might get a little frustrated when he realises he's not as fast on his bike. But then again you can ride ebikes slow, you can also turn off the motor and pedal using your muscle power. For me it's the cost that ultimately crosses any cargo ebike off the list. I would buy non electric used one and convert it to an ebike with bafang or tsdz mid drive motor.
I bought a non electric cargo bike just because of this video :)
Great video! Just what I needed! As I’m looking at buying a Bullitt! I will also go non electric! Maybe put Mtb 2 chainrings to make it easier for the hills! As I will be carrying my boarder collie dog 🐶 sometimes!
Great video, thanks for sharing!
I would like to add #4a) Your own perspective. I just plain feel better when I’m flying along on my own power, or when I make it to the top of a big hill with a load of groceries 😊. If I can pass an e-bike, that’s just gravy.
I like this video a lot. It speaks to me because I’m in the process of trying to buy a LVH and I’m in a hilly area so I’m thinking my only option should be is the battery but I like what you had to say but it doesn’t get me away from I’m in a hilly area. Nobody has any thoughts on it
Please share
This is one of the oldest debates, along with Hub/Mid-drive or Cadence/Torque sensor, in e-biking. An e-bikes with a dead battery is still a bike.
The weight of a motor, controller and battery is less impactful on a cargo bike. I do try to avoid integrated electrical components, displays for example, because of their usual custom nature.
I'm totally with you there. I think that e-bikes are OK for elderly or disabled people who still want to continue to cycle but may need a little help now, but I can't understand why a normally fit and healthy active adult would consider buying an e-bike as their first choice for transport.
Whilst they are a much better option than owning a car; to me they are the equivalent of riding a two-wheeled mobility scooter.
Hello from Finland! Thank you for your video! You have interesting points, and this video gave me some new insights of cargo bikes.
I’m wondering, how is your winter? Is it snowy? And how hilly is your area? My hilly area with long, cold winters had made me think only about having e cargo. Maybe it could be doable with a non e if I could take it a bit slower when climbing up the hills 😁
I have both electric and analog, and both have their appeal. The cost is a really convincing one. I looked up a standard Bullitt and they're over $3,500.
I almost fainted when I was negotiating the details on my Azor custom build bike, which is coming to about $2,000. Almost twice that for one bike would probably give me a heart attack.
I have a gravel bike with huge backpack on it(the biggest I could found), which is technically is my cargo bike as well 😂. It is more than enough to carry most of the things and in worst case I can just add another backup on it. I don't have kids, so serves it porpoise well
i got a non electric singlespeed Christiania cargo bike tonhaul my old mother from her nurning home to her old house (6km trip each way) and also take used building materials and other stuff to the recycling/dump (8km each way) during the oandemic, and it was the cheapest option. No problem, even with some hills on country roads.
I had an ebike and it was not faster than a normal non-assisted bike. When it hit 25km/h that's it. When the motor cut off it was ridiculously heavy to pedal. This was a 3000€ ebike with shimano steps 6100 motor and nexus 5 hub. So maybe it depends on the rider but a non-assisted bike runs way more freely and can pass the 25km/h easily.
I’ve ridden a lot of bikes in my life, had (or better still have) an eBike which is a combination of a road bike and a city bike, which is great, it’s very light and all that, BUT over the year I owned it now, I realized, that it just won’t fit my life. I‘m living completely car free, this thing can’t pull a trailer without me getting feared that it might snap, the electronics, even though from a very reputable company, are broken just about once a month and also I have a roadbike, it’s 34yo, but it’s still a roadbike. Get the same out of it as the eBike with half the effort. I have a similarly old Mountainbike that I got from my Dad and I have a folding bike to take with me on train rides. That pretty much covers everything. But I’m finding myself getting more groceries for gatherings, hauling a lot of stuff etc, so I thought I might sell my eBike soon, the last time I’ve ridden it was mid November, because it won’t turn off and turns itself back on if it auto shuts down. So I’m planning on getting myself a cargo bike, I’m thinking about the Babboe city, since it is the absolute cheapest I can get new and it is rocksolid with its components. The simplicity is what I like! Just wanted to get a sanity check because everyone thinks I’m an idiot for getting a non motorized cargo bike or even a cargo bike at all! They said „just get a car instead“, but this won’t happen as long as I’m a living and breathing creature. Don’t need that. Especially when we have flatrate public transport for 50€ per month.
Одличан видео. Корисно. Слажем се 100%. Хвала.
Do you record your rides on Strava? I’d love to connect some cargo bike riders
1. Health - Personally I'd buy a cargo bike as a better car replacement, I have an ebike and I make so many trips I otherwise wouldn't if it was non-electric. There's studies backing this up, those with ebikes tend to get more exercise overall. I think you're just seriously hardcore and are the exception and max out your exercise no matter the situation which is impressive.
2. Longer rides - With already 1.5hrs in the saddle per day just in commuting, longer rides wouldn't be a plus for me.
3. Future proof - totally agree here. Even with lower futureproofness it's still cheaper, healthier, lower impact than car ownership.
4. Kids perspective. Very valid. I don't have kids though.
5. Price. Another great point. All the more reason to build my own, do it cheaply, and in a way I can repair it if the electronics fail. (or go non-electric).
Hi, thanks for your videos, they helped me in my research for a cargo bike to go around town with my 1 yo. I ordered a bullit and I’m now waiting for it to arrive from denmark. Would be great to see a video on how how happy (or not) are you with the bullit six months in. I see you did the commuter video with the bullit, but just as an overall family/cargo purpose bike. Thank you.
Loving your channel, dude! Agree with all these reasons. I want a Bullitt now.
Thanks Trent! It is a great bike the only downside is the storage you need for it as its rather large. If storage is not an issue than its a great choice.
Cheers!
Although I really appreciate the extra power that you get with an electric motor, since I am feeling my age lately, I tend to agree with you on the future proof point.
In general, the more complex and advanced a technology is, the faster it becomes obsolete, in my opinion.
What happens when you can no longer get parts for your older model motor? Or something happens with the international supply chain?
In 10 years time you could be left with a heavy lump of a cargo bike with no way of powering it.
I have a basic Bullitt and if I want to I can add a rear wheel with a hub motor and a battery pack. If anything goes wrong or I want to enjoy a bit of a workout, I just revert to my normal wheel.
The extra weight of a motor on the rear wheel is balanced out by the cargo load up front.
Yes Bafang has some great mid drive options ive seen on bullitts and that's probably what I would do... I think a lot of people took this video the wrong way and defend their electric cargo bikes.. But I was just trying to make a point on why I chose analog... if the bafang motor gets over the years chances are you can update it with a new motor as opposed to the mid drive motors offered stock with the E bullitt. that's all I was saying and you seem to have caught my point ! So I thank you for seeing that!
Fair points that I could see myself making. I wonder is your area generally flat? I feel like I would go for a non electric Bullitt if not for the hills in my area which has me eyeing an urban arrow instead if/when I make jump to a cargo bike.
One day I drove an electric e-Bullitt and it was fantastic. It’s fast without sweating the hell out of your clothes. I compare it against my car.
You’re 100%correct, technology does not age well. Another reason is that e-bikes are about to become the new recipients of registration and insurance regulations, just wait for it and some combinations just aren’t going to be allowed. They’ll be grandfathered in, but it will still be there and you’ll have to deal with it. The best thing I ever heard is if you don’t use it, you lose it. It applies to me because I had a stroke and was considering a recumbent bike and was told keeping your balance on a regular bike that you would lose on a recumbent bike and the exercise you get with an ebike is marginal at best.
Question - How hilly is your area and how do you handle hills (if there are any) with your non-electric? I live in a volcanic area the gradient is steep and often 😅
@@orangespy it’s hilly! If the gearing is right just slow and steady. I have to give myself plenty of extra time on the commute if I choose to take the cargo bike
@@JoshRomeroYT thanks. Wise words. I have time constraints + hills. I think I’m trying to achieve too much with a bike without compromise. I’ll keep thinking and asking questions 😁
Acoustic bikes are more resilient, that would be my biggest reason. Supply chain issues combined with the planned obsolescence of nearly everything electronic these days means I would only feel comfortable using an e-bike if I was able to afford stockpiling replacement parts. At the very least I would want to have an acoustic bike in the garage as a backup for when the e-motor inevitably went out.
" Supply chain issues combined with the planned obsolescence of nearly everything electronic these days"
I get the sentiment but that's really not applicable unless you go for the insanely highly priced electric cargo bikes with systems like Bosch concerning the 'planned obsolescence'.
And you do realize that when an e-bike is out of juice, it's still a bike with pedals?
There's something contradictory about buying an electric bicycle, is it sustainable, eco, if you need to put electronics on it that will eventually be superseded and may render your bike unusable.
Thanks for sharing. It's very inspiration.
May I ask any recommendation on the speed drive selections, please?
I was wondering on the Shimano 2*11 speed, as my QUARQ power meter on my current tri-bike does; and the local suggested the cargo bike is better fit with 1*12 Sram mountain bike system.
It's totally out of my knowledge pool,, would it be a sufficient working if 50-34 chain ring front, 11-34 cassette rear, as in 2*11 shimano system on a bullitt cargo bike?
Interesting name chose, you mind sharing why he's called Canyon?
I love my analog cargo bike, too!
I looked at the e cargo bikes. It seems like a pretty practical alternative to a car, but I dont loke the idea of the battery and power electronics being essentially a consumable item. Id rather just work harder on my errands i guess.
Well, batteries are consumables, that's just a fact of life, the same way gasoline is a consumable.
When you compare the cost per mile however is when you see that battery tech has surpassed gasoline for these kinds of light vehicles.
A 200 dollar battery can last you a good few years depending on the user, while 200 bucks of gas doesn't get you that far anymore.
I really appreciated your inclusion of Canyon's perspective. Something I wouldn't have immediately thought of. :) My mom recently got an e-bike for a good deal...not a cargo bike. She loves it! She has rheumatoid arthritis and tries to ride her regular bike. But I think the e-bike helps her quite a bit. Really makes me happy to hear her share about it. :) As always, thanks for sharing!
I would get one if I lived in a bike friendly area and if it was a lot cheaper. Also, more power. I saw one struggling to get over a hill.
In my city, no one seems to sell a cargo bike that's not an ebike 😕
great video!
Can anyone provide the pricing for the non e bike vs e bike of the Bullit or even a link to the correct site to get them on? Cheers
Hi Jay if you are in the US Splendid cycles is the place to order from. Pricing depends on the build and spec they have all the info there
I would love a non electric cargo haha but I would collapse with local hills lol. I just physically can not cycle up those hills with 2 kids and bunch of stuff ) I just hardly make it on the highest pedal assistance ))))
Thank You for talking about Slow Cycling = just as important as Slow Food and Slow Money. Question: over here in the Ardennes, we have hills...what is like cycling/pushing a Bullitt up hills?
Play with the transmission ratios! The Bullitt on itself is a pretty light bicycle. If you have a dérailleur system, you can change ratios as you like, maybe mount a triple in the front. If you choose Alfine, it depends on your body weight... if you're light enough, you might play with the primary drive ratio (chainwheel and sprocket) as long as you're willing to give up on Shimano's warranty. Their 1.9:1 minimum ratio seems to rely on a 100Nm limit on the input torque, and is probably calculated for a rather heavy person, so that they can cover all eventualities. If your own weight is significantly less, you can go significantly lower than 1.9 before you reach those 100 Nm - I saw a table somewhere, just can't find the URL anymore, that stated 1.2:1 for 60 kg...
And I'm a big advocate for Slow Sex too ;-)
I couldn't use one of those at all, electric or otherwise, local government here put chicanes on the shared footpath/cycleways to stop abuse by motorcyclists. Result is it's impossible to use that style of cargo bike (or a tandem) on them, you physically couldn't get them through.
i live in co springs too m8
Hello, I absolutly agree to your reasons. I built me a non electric cargo bike, a Ginkgo and I love it. Keep on pushing your limits!
Point #3 alone was reason enough not to go for an electric bike for me. Value after time is one thing, but also getting spare parts for some generation old bikes is getting more and more a problem. Non EBike will not have this issue, chains and brake pads will be compatible a long time.
How are you saying analog bikes are immune to the spare parts problem, while bringing up the example of spare parts being hard to find for old bikes
The algo- rhythm churned up your commute to work video. Which I thought, huh. That’s odd, I don’t commute to work it’s a ten second walk or a four hour ride to work for me. (I live on thé farm!) then you mentioned a Bullitt. Ah, that’s why it’s a recommendation vid. And this particular one really piqued my interest as I could use one for picking parts up. Any excuse to ride a bike at work rather than burn fuel. I’m there. I’ll walk miles carrying posts and fencing tools rather than use a vehicle. It’s what’s made my body robust over the years. But as I’m getting older I feel a cargo bike would be handy. I could carry more. So i mentioned it to a ride buddy and he threw his arms up in despair, not because I brought up the subject of a cargo bike, but because I wanted a human powered one and not an e- motor. Some of your points have convinced me I’m making the right choice 👍☘️
amir blumenfeld really took a different direction with his youtube career.
Nah man i dont wanna get sweaty, eletric ftw. If I want a workout I head to my gym
Looks classy though
I think the future-proof argument probably doesn’t stand up to evidence. I can’t think of any use case that a typical 80+ nM cargo motor can’t do, but I can think of many a non-electric cargo bike will be a chore or impossible to do. If you take care of your battery and replace it every X years when its capacity is insufficient you can probably get many many years out of an electric bike. Maybe in 10 years tech will be drastically
Better but you’ll have benefited those 10 years.
Also the kids ‘perspective’ thing … just use the eco 50% assist setting when you’re going up hill, or turn off the assist.
All in all, appreciate the video but half the arguments were very weak IMHO
I don’t think that helmet is dot certified
Mr romero
You never mentioned if you have a car so I’m guessing you do. I don’t, so owning en ebike instead makes more sense than for people who already have a car. Let’s me get away from the city more easily.
Reason 4 is weird.
🙌🏻
❤❤❤❤
Pretty wise thinking!
About the "future-proof" concept, my son made this remark when I talked about the possibility of me buying an electric cargo-bike: if you get a factory e-cargo-bike, you're stuck with a frame made for a certain engine type - if the engine dies or gets superceded by its followers, you may not be able to fit the new engine of your choice in that same frame...
Add to that the ugly habit of Shimano (to my knowledge the only e-motor manufacturer chosen by LarryvsHarry) to throw away all their "old" stock almost as soon as they release a new version of anything, and I wouldn't be surprised their next generation motor will not fit your frame when your actual motor gives up in a few years...
All this pleads towards retrofitting your electric assistance with parts that fit "standard" bike norms, whether it's hub motor or bottom bracket motor.
However, I don't agree with russvolk8300 's argument about the Pinion-gearbox-frame, as I have the impression Pinion is, like Rohloff, built to last and probably not too likely to be undergoing any radical design changes. But I might be mistaken.
If I am not mistaken, a Pinion-frame with a (later retrofit) rear hub motor may well be the ultimate solution - if you can pay for it ;-)
I just bought a used Bullitt, consciously without electric assistance, and I'll try to rely on my own legs as long as possible (I'm 56 now), and in the meantime keep an eye out for the best retrofit-solutions on the market, should my cargo ambitions outgrow my physical capabilities...
One more argument against electric cargobikes, if you're physcally fit enough to do without: even if the conditions in which you're riding don't call for assistance all of the time, the weight of motor and battery will still force you to use it if you can't just take it out and stuff it in a cupboard...
The battery and motor way about 20 pounds combined, which is noticeable but not terrible
You omitted the biggest: your area is flat.
Thank you. I'm looking at buying a cargo bike but don't want to go down the e road and have been struggling to find anything that isn't electric. Bicycles should be human powered in my opinion.
At least try an E bike for a day before saying transport shouldn’t be electrically assisted