In many cases, an "eyeball estimation" is acceptible. When running offsets of longer than 4' in an exposed area, using a less forgiving material such as cast iron, a minute of time on a scratch piece of paper or a construction calc app on the phone will save material, time, and inaccurate installation.
Oh, absolutely! In this video, I only show where the constant comes from. It was the first video I posted and recorded for RUclips. I had to do a short video with captioning for a certification I was working on.
@@BGsPlumbingClass oh ok thanks for showing me man. I wanted a easier way instead of laying it out on the ground or eye balling it because I work in high rise residential it’s all about speed and not Wasting time lol.
rectangle triangles fascinating subject, trigonometric functions is something i do every time ,even when i look at tall building , i try to imagine the value of the hypotenuse from where i stand , adjacent leg and opposite
I remember learning the Pythagorean theorem and sine, tan, and cosine and all that and the entire class would always ask why we needed to know this stuff....and not a single math teacher showed us this.
I know! I wish the teachers would wake up and try to explain things better. I love math and I've had a few requests to go over some plumbing math. I'll get there soon for everyone.
Commonly known as over teaching . Simplicity is over rated when a teacher is a teacher and not into mechanical trades in reality . Everything on a piece of paper is logical. Put them in the field where the world is not a static product like a book teaching class. Teaching is one thing but the logic of practicality not taught that would not be applicable for a career job security in the education industry .
Yes, but you have to take off for the fitting depths. So if you're using two 45's you'll measure the hub length, multiply by 2 and subtract your run ("C") by it.
That is true, great observation! This video was only designed to show HOW the constant 1.414 is figured. You are correct in the statement about subtracting the fitting make ups, but you take it away from the travel (C), not the run (B)- which is identical to the offset (A) in a 45 degree offset situation. Also, keep in mind that if you are using a wye and a 45, the take offs are going to be different.
I dreamed about this number one day , and recalled i used it on college classes long ago but dont know why i dreamed about it. Funny how our brain holds on data longer than we can imagine.
If I understand the question correctly, I think it may help in explaining it a different way. In an offset of piping, if I were to use 45 degree fittings, the run and the offset are of equal distance (this is a mathematical constant and if the angles shift off 45 degrees, the run is longer if the fittings are less than 45 and the offset is longer if fittings are more than 45 degrees). To find the travel for 1/16th bends (22.5 deg), multiply the offset by 2.612 and to find the run multiply the offset by 2.414 To find the travel of 1/6th bends (60 deg), multiply the offset by 1.156 and to find the run multiply the offset by .575
@@BGsPlumbingClass Your answer is great sir, but what I mean is that the outcome for the travel measurement refers to clear pipe edges, so we take out (subtract) 2 angles(60,45 or 22,5 what ever we deside to use). In every video I see they take out 2 half's and measure the travel from half to half the two angles plus the travel piece.
Look at other math vids, with a 45 45 90, A and B are both 10, they'll say C is square root of 10. Nah dude its 14.142. Just multiply any side by 14.142 for the awnser. The square root of 10 is 3.16, that is not the length of C. Made no sense to me.
When I first started teaching 20 years ago, a student asked me where that number came from, and I told him I'd figure it out for him. Obviously someone else had figured it out way before me but I didn't have the internet to guide me, so I actually figured it out myself and was totally excited to share. The next semester the textbook issued a new edition and son of a gun if it wasn't in there!!! Stole my thunder so to speak.
Ben, This is Doug Kirk.......I'm sure you remember being in my class for the Spring 94-95 semester. I supplied the class with what I titled a MORE FORMULAS sheet....ring a bell? You're doing a pretty good job with these classes
@@plumbguru Doug, It is an honor to have been one of your students! Thank you for the kind words. I can only hope to learn half of what you have forgotten over the years. I believe I still have that from your class as well as some of your handouts and notes that you have left behind. As you know the campus was demolished a few years ago and I was tasked with removing and "throwing away" what was not needed. I kept your notes and papers so that I may be able to go through them (hope you don't mind). I even found a couple certificates for other students that I was able to locate and hand over to them! Thank you Mr. Kirk for all you have taught me and for - above all- showing me how to be a better instructor.
You don't have to use any of that. Don't need to determine what the square root is. All you need to know is your C-C measurement, X 1.414 and thats your travel. Take off your fitting allowance for the 2 45s and thats your cut piece. The rest of his method works but takes longer then needed. Simplify shit, understand shit and you'll get good.
I completely agree with you! The whole point of this was to EXPLAIN where 1.414 came from. That's all. I appreciate you watching the video, just a reminder that this was done entirely to show origin. Great assessment, and again, thank you for watching!
In case you were asking what the constant was for a 30 degree offset, it is twice the offset. The run is a bit different however. It is approximately 1.155 times the run.
I didn't mention subtracting fittings as it was only a video to demonstrate where 1.414 came from. I've had several students over the years ask the origin of 1.414 so this is- albeit "more complicated than it is" as you said- the explanation. I do appreciate your honest assessment
If A is not B then the angle of travel is not a true 45 degrees. That would then fall into dealing with Sine, Co-sine, and Tangent equations. Not to mention, short of pipe fitting and creating your own fittings, that is not typical. The only other fittings available would be 22.5 degrees, 60 degrees for waste and vent.
Been eyeballing those for years. Works everytime:)
In many cases, an "eyeball estimation" is acceptible. When running offsets of longer than 4' in an exposed area, using a less forgiving material such as cast iron, a minute of time on a scratch piece of paper or a construction calc app on the phone will save material, time, and inaccurate installation.
@@BGsPlumbingClassafter you get c shouldn’t you take away the fitting allowances ??
Oh, absolutely! In this video, I only show where the constant comes from. It was the first video I posted and recorded for RUclips. I had to do a short video with captioning for a certification I was working on.
@@BGsPlumbingClass oh ok thanks for showing me man. I wanted a easier way instead of laying it out on the ground or eye balling it because I work in high rise residential it’s all about speed and not Wasting time lol.
Thats the long way but a good way to explain. 1.414 for 45 fitting allowances 22 fittings are 2.613
That is true for the 1/16th bend (22 1/2) offset. The run is 2.414 if you needed to calculated that as well. Great addition!!!
rectangle triangles fascinating subject, trigonometric functions is something i do every time ,even when i look at tall building , i try to imagine the value of the hypotenuse from where i stand , adjacent leg and opposite
I remember learning the Pythagorean theorem and sine, tan, and cosine and all that and the entire class would always ask why we needed to know this stuff....and not a single math teacher showed us this.
I know! I wish the teachers would wake up and try to explain things better. I love math and I've had a few requests to go over some plumbing math. I'll get there soon for everyone.
Commonly known as over teaching . Simplicity is over rated when a teacher is a teacher and not into mechanical trades in reality . Everything on a piece of paper is logical. Put them in the field where the world is not a static product like a book teaching class. Teaching is one thing but the logic of practicality not taught that would not be applicable for a career job security in the education industry .
Agreed!
Nice, easy and straight forward explanation
Thanks Sam!
Yes, but you have to take off for the fitting depths. So if you're using two 45's you'll measure the hub length, multiply by 2 and subtract your run ("C") by it.
That is true, great observation! This video was only designed to show HOW the constant 1.414 is figured. You are correct in the statement about subtracting the fitting make ups, but you take it away from the travel (C), not the run (B)- which is identical to the offset (A) in a 45 degree offset situation. Also, keep in mind that if you are using a wye and a 45, the take offs are going to be different.
Small world, I worked with Doug Kirk on water conservation a few yrs ago.
He is a great asset to the industry. He has just retired.
I dreamed about this number one day , and recalled i used it on college classes long ago but dont know why i dreamed about it. Funny how our brain holds on data longer than we can imagine.
The cool thing is there are constants for each angle of travel we use.
Well you find the travel for the 45 degree offset, do you subtract 2*45 angles? I refer to steel pipes and angles
If I understand the question correctly, I think it may help in explaining it a different way. In an offset of piping, if I were to use 45 degree fittings, the run and the offset are of equal distance (this is a mathematical constant and if the angles shift off 45 degrees, the run is longer if the fittings are less than 45 and the offset is longer if fittings are more than 45 degrees). To find the travel for 1/16th bends (22.5 deg), multiply the offset by 2.612 and to find the run multiply the offset by 2.414 To find the travel of 1/6th bends (60 deg), multiply the offset by 1.156 and to find the run multiply the offset by .575
@@BGsPlumbingClass Your answer is great sir, but what I mean is that the outcome for the travel measurement refers to clear pipe edges, so we take out (subtract) 2 angles(60,45 or 22,5 what ever we deside to use). In every video I see they take out 2 half's and measure the travel from half to half the two angles plus the travel piece.
I'm guessing that would be more for a fitted pipe scenario?
What is the run is greater than the offset ? Then it's no longer there same.
That is true. But it's also no longer a 45 degree offset. As plumbers, we tend to deal in 45 or 22.5 degree offsets, if they're not 90s.
Look at other math vids, with a 45 45 90, A and B are both 10, they'll say C is square root of 10. Nah dude its 14.142. Just multiply any side by 14.142 for the awnser. The square root of 10 is 3.16, that is not the length of C. Made no sense to me.
Hope this one helped a bit better.
Who thought that up?
When I first started teaching 20 years ago, a student asked me where that number came from, and I told him I'd figure it out for him. Obviously someone else had figured it out way before me but I didn't have the internet to guide me, so I actually figured it out myself and was totally excited to share. The next semester the textbook issued a new edition and son of a gun if it wasn't in there!!! Stole my thunder so to speak.
Ben, This is Doug Kirk.......I'm sure you remember being in my class for the Spring 94-95 semester. I supplied the class with what I titled a MORE FORMULAS sheet....ring a bell? You're doing a pretty good job with these classes
@@plumbguru Doug, It is an honor to have been one of your students! Thank you for the kind words. I can only hope to learn half of what you have forgotten over the years. I believe I still have that from your class as well as some of your handouts and notes that you have left behind. As you know the campus was demolished a few years ago and I was tasked with removing and "throwing away" what was not needed. I kept your notes and papers so that I may be able to go through them (hope you don't mind). I even found a couple certificates for other students that I was able to locate and hand over to them! Thank you Mr. Kirk for all you have taught me and for - above all- showing me how to be a better instructor.
You don't have to use any of that. Don't need to determine what the square root is. All you need to know is your C-C measurement, X 1.414 and thats your travel. Take off your fitting allowance for the 2 45s and thats your cut piece. The rest of his method works but takes longer then needed. Simplify shit, understand shit and you'll get good.
I completely agree with you! The whole point of this was to EXPLAIN where 1.414 came from. That's all. I appreciate you watching the video, just a reminder that this was done entirely to show origin. Great assessment, and again, thank you for watching!
30 degree
Would you like the constants for 30 degrees?
In case you were asking what the constant was for a 30 degree offset, it is twice the offset. The run is a bit different however. It is approximately 1.155 times the run.
30 graus contante é 2.000
I did not like the video, I found it more complicated than it is. Also you didn't mention subtracting the fitting then adding hub depth.
I didn't mention subtracting fittings as it was only a video to demonstrate where 1.414 came from. I've had several students over the years ask the origin of 1.414 so this is- albeit "more complicated than it is" as you said- the explanation. I do appreciate your honest assessment
What if A not equal B?
If A is not B then the angle of travel is not a true 45 degrees. That would then fall into dealing with Sine, Co-sine, and Tangent equations. Not to mention, short of pipe fitting and creating your own fittings, that is not typical. The only other fittings available would be 22.5 degrees, 60 degrees for waste and vent.
@@BGsPlumbingClass so its the easier ways to know hypotenus