I remember watching this episode as a kid and honestly before even realizing it was a fear tocsin thinking to myself “God if the police pursuit criminals half as Effectively as they are hunting Batman…”
This is an amazing comment Maybe that's also something that Barbara cooked up in her dream as something she's idealized. She believes her father and the police are actually effective
One of my favorite things in this episode is that it confirmed something I always suspected over the years: Commissioner Gordon knows Bruce Wayne is Batman.
I always thought the same thing after watching the show and reading countless Batman stories, especially Batman: Year One where Bruce saves Jim's son frrom the mob and they confront each other. I always thought Jim kept it under raps and hid his suspicions because he knew Batman meant something to Gotham and perhaps there was more to Bruce being Batman, and even Barbara being Batgirl.
@@milkiassamuel780 From towards the end of no man’s land: Batman: actions speak Louder than words. Batman begins to take his mask off, Jim turns around to look away from him. Batman, now fully unmasked: “Jim” Jim: Put it… put it back. If I wanted to know who you were I could have discovered it 10 years ago. And for all you know, maybe I did. Maybe I do. But that’s not the point. Put it back on”. Jim pauses, glances over his shoulder and then fully turns around. Batman is wearing the mask again.
Does it confirm that though? Confirming that Barb is Batgirl is one thing, but to connect to Batman is a bit of another. Sure an inference could be made, but probably not anything definitive, especially if you take into consideration that fact that Barb developed a relationship with Dick and familiarity with Bruce to some degree before she knows their secret identities, and visa versa on Dick's part at least.
Completely agree, he's my favorite batman villain, the fact he's a psychologist and the fear toxin could make for an awesome story (the old batman animated series made an episode that shows some potencial, i just wish they would give Scarecrow his own movie and focus on him using Bruce's trauma as his weapon, some writers tried something similar with Joker but it's not the same, everytime i see people using the trauma against Bruce is pretty much just accidental, imagine if Scarecrow knew about it and used that on purpose, a story like that would have so much potential as long as they have a good reason for Bruce to come to terms with his trauma and not power of friendship bullshit)
Yes and I thought the idea of We are all Scarecrows where Scarecrow has a massive followers all over the world even some members of Military believe in him where one of them gave him the launch codes for the nuclear missiles but replacing the nuclear material for the fear gas so it’s up to the Justice league for this and it would be pre-Starcrossed also I never like this scarecrow design because it doesn’t look like a scarecrow and just like the Joker in the Justice league series who got redesign I think that the Scarecrow should look like the killer in the movie Nightbreed.
@@mitrikgaduk347 You mean the game where he does nothing and is sidelined for the worst version of Red Hood and ghost Joker from his blood transfusion that he already cured?
It might be a hallucination but the Batman vs Bane fight in that episode is probably the best one put to screen. Just both combatants going all out, Bane actually being presented as a really smart dude.
The only weird thing was Gordon ever accepting to work with Bane at all. He may hate Batman at that moment but he would never go along with Bane. I guess you can hand wave it as a fear toxin thing
7:12 I know we are supposed to assume Jim knows she’s Batgirl, but comedically you could also read it as an old stuffy dad not wanting to hear about his daughter’s “adult job”, but still supporting her
Gordon really was a great father in the show, and I really appreciate the way you highlight the fact that it's precisely because of the way that he gives Barbara the space and trust to make her own decisions. It's a tragedy of the Batverse that people (Bruce, Barbara, Dick, etc.) constantly underestimate how much he perceives simply because he doesn't directly address it, but that tragedy is exactly what gives space for excellent pay-offs like this one. It reminds me of the comic No Man's Land, where Gordon calls out Batman for never trusting him enough to let him in on the plan; Bruce attempts to demonstrate that he does trust Jim by removing his cowl, but Gordon rebukes him and refuses to look, because that was never the point. He strongly implies that he knows and has known for a long time, but Batman doesn't seem to countenance that Jim has his own motivations and reasons for trusting Batman for so long. It's so easy to take the people we most rely upon in life for granted.
Agreed Jim has always known he figured it out years ago when Batman first started appearing and never said anything because Batman's actions so far have benefited Gotham with the cape and without the cape
@@coldeed Right… Because if she wanted to be a firefighter, the right thing to do as a “good dad” would be to forbid her? Lock her up in her room to keep her safe? The point is not that she’s JUST doing dangerous shit, it’s that she’s doing it for a good and noble cause - there’s a difference between being an adrenaline junky and a hero, and while it takes a lot of strength to not only accept those risks but accept your child for being the good person they are, it IS the good thing to do as a parent, to let go and lets them live their own life in the best way they can.
@@matthewbibby8921 there is a difference between telling someone not to do dangerous shit and locking them in a room. When you have to make up something that stupid to be "right" you're arguing from a point of ignorance and stupidity, not me. It's bad parenting to teach your kid to embrace martyrdom just like it's bad to attempt to imprison them. I don't know why you think these are the only 2 things you could do, use your head next time before you say something that dumb.
"Over the edge "got the audience on the edge of their seats. My first impression seeing the ending of the episode gave me the impression that Barbara's dad didn't know about her super hero identity. Nonetheless, Barbara and, her father have an endearing moment in the end.
As a kid: Oh yeah he doesn't know. As an adult raising a girl: How the hell does he not know? I know it's my kid when she is wearing a sheet over their head. You know what they smell like and can pick out their voice in a crowded room. Of course he knows.
The "I love you... *all* of you" line is so good because it calls back to the fact that Bruce is essentially Gordon's son or nephew too, since he was the first person to take him in after his parents were killed.
I always found funny the way that Barbara's mind portraits Dick, but i guess it is a "Fear toxin" might be using her insecurities about him, thoughts about if he did really love her
this is the saddest part of the batman series. seeing how everyone grew up, and they don't . Worse Barbara doesnt talk about DIck but rather than Batman that way. I did love Batman Beyond, but it's sad.
Im about to end the third season (New Batman Adventures) and I havent seen any sexual tension between Bruce and Barbara. More like at the beginning Barbara in the second season was kind of had a crush with Batman, but Bruce never seemed to care or do anything. The Batman Beyond and DCAU comics are not cannon according to Bruce Timm himself, so that Bruce and Barbara's baby shit is not a real thing.
@@Raideortega yeah but sincerely, if you re watch the second and third season could you actually see some sexual tension between them? He was more of showing that Barbara felt something for Bruce at some point (for example that dream she had about him and her kissing) but Bruce never seemed to care lol the scene shown in Mistery of the Batwoman just shows Bruce trying to avoid Barbara from her trying to go further. I remember hearing a lot about that story where Bruce left Barbara pregnant and was like holy hell thats fucked up, but after watching the show its safe to say the comics are an Elseworld to the DCAU, because there's literally zero love scenes or tension between both.
@@Raideortega Just to clarify, with second season I mean the adventures of batman and robin and 3rd season is New Batman Adventures, the way they appear in HBO Max.
I freaking hate that pairing so much. Especially when it's when Dick was or has dated her. It makes Bruce become a unlikable dick to Dick. Wow I really just typed that.
I don't know if episode inspired it, but I like how in the Injustice series it is revealed Gordon has known Barbara was Batgirl the entire time. And when she asks in surprise, 'How?" Gordon's response is, "I'm a detective/cop! It's my job!"
This episode has a strong memory for me. When I watched it on Kids WB when I was little my mom made me do something right after the scene of Barbara’s funeral and I told my younger sister (she was 4 and I was 7) to let me know what happened to Batgirl cause I was genuinely shocked by what happened and I ended up missing the ending by the time I finished doing what kept me from seeing it and I asked my little sister and she was like, “Batgirl woke up.” And I was so confused and I remember thinking “…she must have woke up in the coffin?” I didn’t see the actual events till I bought the DVD cause this particular episode didn’t seem to get rerun much at all and I never saw it on Cartoon Network despite often seeing classic BTAS episodes. Kudos, to my sister for telling me the exact truth about the ending though cause as hard to believe as it was, she was right Batgirl did wake up after dying.
To this day, seeing many horror movies, I rarely have reacted to a jump scare as I did when Barbara hit the car. I never saw it coming and it truly scared me.
I love the running joke of batman sleeping with Barbara. It was messed up and not something I think Bruce would honestly do even in the "Heat of the moment" but the constant call backs to that moment I find hilarious
I remember how sad it was to watch the episode already having been spoiled for the final plot twist and being like: "man, watching this like a normal episode would have been great"
It could be argued that, with the focus of Babs' vision being on Bruce and Jim, Dick just offering support instead of grieving was where she saw him. My number 1 clue that this scenario was not what it seemed: Sadly, the focus and competence of the GCPD as they pursued Bruce. Montoya, and maybe even Bullock, would have in 'real life' tried to pull Jim back a bit, and Bruce would have given them a much tougher time - and sorry, no way the GCPD's boats would have intercepted Jack as they came out of the cave. That was nightmare logic at work, where the threat/monster spots you from a far distance, and is then right on top of you.
Yet in the Batman Beyond episode, "Eyewitness", she ends up doing the same thing she feared her father would do to Terry. To be honest, her past relationship with Bruce may have clouded her judgement.
@@petercelano7057she was a vigilante for a bit when batman was first introduced, she knows of the horror that happens on the job, she didn’t want terry to suffer a similar fate, but ever since the end of the series and movie, she has faith, terry will do well. Hell, he does. Especially when u watch the Batman beyond episode in justice league unlimited season 2
Without a doubt, one of the greatest Batman stories ever told! The opening is intense, Babs' death is horrifying and that final scene between Babs and Jim gets me right in the heart.
I just have issues of Gordon and Gotham PD going trigger happy on the Bat Family until I found out it was all Barbara’s fear coming to life via Scarecrow’s fear toxin. It must have taken place at least hours after Scarecrow was captured.
It really says something about the quality of the writing, acting, and animating of this show that we're still talking about it 30 years later and that in many respects it is still the standard to which all Batman media is measured...
i always thought that jim didn't know at the end, he just didn't care. he trusts his daughter as an adult, and whatever job shes got its fine. she's clearly struggling with if she should tell him or not, so he gives her an out - if she wants to tell him about her new night job as a dominatrix then she can when shes ready.
Besides “Old Wounds” this is my favorite episode. This was brilliantly written, and pushed the bounds of what was allowed in a cartoon tv show. From start to finish, it NEVER felt like the climax was over. How many felt like it was a genuine scary movie when Batgirl’s body ACTUALLY hit the car? So Batgirl’s fear is her death. Her fear about her father is nonacceptance of her lifestyle and even rage with the bat family that she loves. Her fear with Dick was him not caring enough about her death to quit. Tim Drake became an orphan and a fugitive at like 13 so his life is ruined. And in the end, the two men she values most, in spite of all their anger, reconcile…only for it to be too late as they plummet to their deaths. Fear toxin never hit so hard. In a way, WE were the ones the fear toxin hit because everything we had grown to love about the Batman animated series was crushed beneath one bad day. And they did it in 30 minutes WITH commercials! Then, when Batgirl wakes up, we finally settle down from our climactic adrenaline rush, ending with the Commissioner either admitting that he knows and respects her choices or he doesn’t know and respects her choices. In under 60 seconds, they show us through Commissioner Gordon the powerful message: Love is more powerful than fear.
Despite only appearing in a few minutes in a flashback this was one of the Scarecrow's most finest moments and depicted his fear toxin super well. Sometimes his fear toxin shows visions of spiders and snakes which are really cheap, it's meant to show people of their greatest fears and this episode managed to do it well.
Thank you for making this video Leo. I've always wanted to see this episode discussed in this way. When I first saw it as a kid I was freaked out by it. It was dark man. The consequences seemed very real and permanent until the reveal of the fear gas.
That episode created a huge dent in the mythos of Batman, for me, when I was a kid. He had zero contingency plan for the distinct possibility of any member of the Family getting seriously hurt or killed. Also, if you want to do a Me Too episode about Bruce and Barbara please do so. There is enough ammunition with TAS/New Adventures/Batwomen/Beyond to ask some tough questions. It is obvious that by Beyond, Barbara and Bruce are not in a good place and nothing can be said or done to fully heal that wound. Terry mends the bridge but only for the sake of crime fighting pragmatism, if not she would've gone to the funeral and that's about it.
Barbra is an adult. She can make her own choices on who she sleeps with… To say she can’t infantilizes women. Once you’re an adult you get to choose weather or not you sleep with a Batman twice your age.
Bruce and Barb aren't in a good place by the time Beyond starts because Barb could never get Bruce to settle down fully, and commit to living life instead of dedicating himself to being Batman. It got old, they wanted different things, and she moved on. She says this to Terry directly. I don't agree with their relationship. But Barb is not a victim, has never claimed to be, and while that relationship did put them on bad terms by Beyond, it's not for the reasons you're implying.
@@jackroyaltea5034 Bruce slept with his son's ex-girlfriend, who he is mentoring, who is his best friend's daughter. He's also the third or fourth most powerful person on earth depending on who you ask. Boundaries and trust were 100% broken. She doesn't have to be underage for the whole thing to be objectively wrong.
@@jackroyaltea5034 bad take, Barbara in no way stands as a normal woman, and more importantly, Bruce has more power over her than any big man in Hollywood had over any actress, stuff with Timm's fetish got really grossed and messed up. Ruined killing joke too.
Yo man I really love your in-depth analysis videos. They make my day. I reckon you’ll like bojack horseman .its one of the most complex and character based piece of writing you’ll see Please give it a shot
This episode actually proves how wrong Barbara is to blame Bruce for her being Batgirl. She choose this life to be a crime fighter and even got the blessing of her father to be so.
I get why the ending is done the way it is. However how cool could it have been to see a whole season of the Bat family on the run, trying to somehow get in Gordon's good graces. Talk about some dark gritty stories they could do.
I was like 4 when this episode originally aired on Fox kids after school. And let me tell you, I was NOT ready for this fake out. I was terrified and in the edge of my seat the whole time.
This episode, it was such a gut punch! I was shocked and shaking....and I do not, and did not see that as a bad thing! Because by the end of the episode, the relief of seeing her alive was mind blowing! I am SO very glad that we got shows like this when I was a kid!!!
I swear these past couple of months I’ve just been randomly clicking on your vids just because of the title alone. Obscure enough for me to say “hmmmmmm…I’m intrigued” Just subscribed 🤘🏻
Over the Edge is definitely my FAVORITE BTAS episode. It smashes the conventional story of Batman and makes you consider what would happen if EVERYTHING WENT WRONG. I still remember watching it for the first time. Through the first half of the episode I was wondering how conventionally everything could get fixed (at least where Gordon wasn't relentlessly hunting Batman down). At about the halfway mark I realized that there wasn't going to be any resolution and that this HAD TO BE a dream sequence. But it's still an awesome episode and really makes you think.
The only thing I would have changed about this episode is change Barbara's Killer from Scarecrow to the Joker as a reference to the Killing Joke minus the getting shot in the spine part and she'd become Oracle by the end of the episode
Aw sweet! New Implicitly Pretentious video six days before my birthday! Great stuff as always! Been watching your channel for 10 months and looking forward to more! Keep up the great work! Definitely one of my favorite channels! 👍
I watched this in college. Turned it on but missed the first 5 minutes so didn't see the scarecrow setup. Made for a very shocking watch experience until the end.
I remember when i was watching the series i heard that batgirl died in an episode a while before i got up to it so for months i genuinely thought that she would die until i finally watched it
Love that this came up on my feed, glad someone else realizes what a work of art this episode is....I remember starting the episode as a kid and being like, "The cops are chasing Batman!? And Gordon knows!? What the heck is going on!?"
So, Over the Edge has always been one of -if not- my favorite episodes … I watched it live when it first aired, and was obviously DEVASTATED, confused, finally relieved, and ultimately incredibly moved at the ripe age of 9 years old. As a day-one Barbara stan it shaped me and touched me in ways I couldn’t even express at the time. But tell me why I STILL cried watching your video just now when you talk about how the episode ends without her being an interruption in Bruce/Dick/Commish’s story. Wow. I guess there are always tears left to shed over something as brilliant & beautiful as this^. Thank you 🙏🏼
It makes total sense that Gordon knew Batman was Bruce Wayne all along. He saw Bruce adopt Dick, Then all of a sudden Batman has a side kick. He saw Bruce adopt another kid, and then he has another Sidekick. and there where far too many cases that had Batman and Bruce Wayne involved. Gordon knows that most other people can never know because he is the one who allows this to happen
I remember the first time I saw this episode as a kid, I would just rewind Barbara’s death scene over and over again. Watching it again just over a month ago really had me thinking “Jesus Christ” the entire way through. It’s just escalation after escalation, and you breathe a sigh of relief when in finally ends.
"Dreams can't simulate things that haven't happened/you can't die in a dream" is an Old Wives Tail. You can't really "die" in the sense that you can't perceive what happens after death because, well, then you would actually be dead & likely perceive nothing, but it is entirely possible to "hit the ground." It's happened to me before. It's just that the instinctive fear response usually wakes you up before it happens. If you're wondering what it's like, I imagine not that different from what you expect. It didn't really "hurt" because you didn't actually fall, & a healthy brain has a limited ability to "imagine" pain. I basically saw myself, in the third person, bounce from the impact & become a crumpled heap. It was disturbing, but in the end, it was just a nightmare. Point being, those things you hear that "can't happen in dreams" are usually nothing more than things people repeat so often that they're taken as true when they're actually baseless. Now, that was my case, but dreams certainly CAN have a more profound effect on someone. In Barbara's case, she saw her worst fears realized, & it caused her to decide she needed to tell her father. In that regard, I agree with the rest of your take. The only thing I could add is that "in this case, I can't" is meant to say that Jim wanted to retain plausible deniability. As long as Barbara didn't technically tell him she was Batgirl, he could act as though there's no conflict of interest. The idea that the episode shows how important Jim is to Batman's operation, & how easily he could defeat Batman if he wanted to, is a good point that I hadn't thought of.
scarecrow is simultaneously the weakest and strongest enemy. Fear is ultimately intagible, fear cannot hurt you, but there's the reality, that you cannot fight fear. You can ignore it, accept, or try and bury it, but you cannot punch it, you cannot kill it, the best you can hope for is to stand in its way and refuse to yield.
this is random but if you check out the date to this episode may 23rd 1998 and a year later to may 23rd 1999 they got the name off of this episode and tried to recreate it on owen hart, such a coincidence not sure if anyone has noticed it
Throwing Jason into this episode plot Bruce probably still affected Jay's death: I know how feel Gordon: no you don't *proceeds to insult Bruce* Me: 😢 shut up Gordon
I was absolutely GUTTED when they revealed in BATMAN BEYOND that Bruce eventually slept with Barbara. It's the one piece of continuity in The DCAU that I will NEVER. ACCEPT. EVER.
5:25 To clarify: The man talking to Gordon in this scene is Mayor Hamilton Hill (cool that the series kept him after the Clock King incident, speaking of another woefully underutilized Batman villain). It's still true that the Gotham DA wanted Gordon off the case, and given that Gordon basically did what the FBI did at Ruby Ridge and Waco for pure revenge, it's not hard to imagine that the DA probably couldn't prosecute anyone involved. The courts would have a field day with the police misconduct alone.
I remember watching this episode as a kid and honestly before even realizing it was a fear tocsin thinking to myself “God if the police pursuit criminals half as Effectively as they are hunting Batman…”
This is an amazing comment
Maybe that's also something that Barbara cooked up in her dream as something she's idealized. She believes her father and the police are actually effective
Yeah its a dead giveaway this is a fantasy. Gotham cops are utterly useless. 😆
Weird things that make sense: Why do the police have tanks and rocket launchers?...Oh yeah super villains...for sure they got a nice federal grant.
@@RamChop451 it's also funny that she ended up doing this to Terry in Batman Beyond when she got tricked by Spell binder.
@@mrrodriguezHLP i mean... some american police forces literally have access to a tank or two :P
One of my favorite things in this episode is that it confirmed something I always suspected over the years: Commissioner Gordon knows Bruce Wayne is Batman.
I always thought the same thing after watching the show and reading countless Batman stories, especially Batman: Year One where Bruce saves Jim's son frrom the mob and they confront each other.
I always thought Jim kept it under raps and hid his suspicions because he knew Batman meant something to Gotham and perhaps there was more to Bruce being Batman, and even Barbara being Batgirl.
@@milkiassamuel780 "You know I can't see a thing without my glasses" a greater lie has never been told.
@@milkiassamuel780
From towards the end of no man’s land:
Batman: actions speak Louder than words.
Batman begins to take his mask off, Jim turns around to look away from him.
Batman, now fully unmasked: “Jim”
Jim: Put it… put it back. If I wanted to know who you were I could have discovered it 10 years ago. And for all you know, maybe I did. Maybe I do. But that’s not the point. Put it back on”.
Jim pauses, glances over his shoulder and then fully turns around. Batman is wearing the mask again.
Does it confirm that though? Confirming that Barb is Batgirl is one thing, but to connect to Batman is a bit of another. Sure an inference could be made, but probably not anything definitive, especially if you take into consideration that fact that Barb developed a relationship with Dick and familiarity with Bruce to some degree before she knows their secret identities, and visa versa on Dick's part at least.
I think Even Bullocks knew.
Scarecrow needs to be used more. He has so much potential.
Indeed...
Four words: Arkham Knight.
Completely agree, he's my favorite batman villain, the fact he's a psychologist and the fear toxin could make for an awesome story (the old batman animated series made an episode that shows some potencial, i just wish they would give Scarecrow his own movie and focus on him using Bruce's trauma as his weapon, some writers tried something similar with Joker but it's not the same, everytime i see people using the trauma against Bruce is pretty much just accidental, imagine if Scarecrow knew about it and used that on purpose, a story like that would have so much potential as long as they have a good reason for Bruce to come to terms with his trauma and not power of friendship bullshit)
Yes and I thought the idea of We are all Scarecrows where Scarecrow has a massive followers all over the world even some members of Military believe in him where one of them gave him the launch codes for the nuclear missiles but replacing the nuclear material for the fear gas so it’s up to the Justice league for this and it would be pre-Starcrossed also I never like this scarecrow design because it doesn’t look like a scarecrow and just like the Joker in the Justice league series who got redesign I think that the Scarecrow should look like the killer in the movie Nightbreed.
@@mitrikgaduk347 You mean the game where he does nothing and is sidelined for the worst version of Red Hood and ghost Joker from his blood transfusion that he already cured?
It might be a hallucination but the Batman vs Bane fight in that episode is probably the best one put to screen. Just both combatants going all out, Bane actually being presented as a really smart dude.
"I'm pleased you remember me, Mister Wayne."
You cannot believe how much I have been looking forward to this.
The only weird thing was Gordon ever accepting to work with Bane at all. He may hate Batman at that moment but he would never go along with Bane.
I guess you can hand wave it as a fear toxin thing
"I want him alive to rot away in Arkham surrounded by the monsters he's created" is a pretty bad ass line from Gordon
It definitely all adds up when you find out it’s Barbara’s worst fear .
And considering what happened in Return Of The Joker......
Or the killing joke.
7:12 I know we are supposed to assume Jim knows she’s Batgirl, but comedically you could also read it as an old stuffy dad not wanting to hear about his daughter’s “adult job”, but still supporting her
And thus not wanting annnyyyy details or confirmation lol
Aaaand thus, the scene is ruined. Thanks, I hate it.
I say that too and I just got to say yes
Gordon really was a great father in the show, and I really appreciate the way you highlight the fact that it's precisely because of the way that he gives Barbara the space and trust to make her own decisions. It's a tragedy of the Batverse that people (Bruce, Barbara, Dick, etc.) constantly underestimate how much he perceives simply because he doesn't directly address it, but that tragedy is exactly what gives space for excellent pay-offs like this one. It reminds me of the comic No Man's Land, where Gordon calls out Batman for never trusting him enough to let him in on the plan; Bruce attempts to demonstrate that he does trust Jim by removing his cowl, but Gordon rebukes him and refuses to look, because that was never the point. He strongly implies that he knows and has known for a long time, but Batman doesn't seem to countenance that Jim has his own motivations and reasons for trusting Batman for so long. It's so easy to take the people we most rely upon in life for granted.
Agreed Jim has always known he figured it out years ago when Batman first started appearing and never said anything because Batman's actions so far have benefited Gotham with the cape and without the cape
"good dad's" let their kids do horribly dangerous shit lmfao. That's a pretty silly take all things considered.
@@coldeed Right… Because if she wanted to be a firefighter, the right thing to do as a “good dad” would be to forbid her? Lock her up in her room to keep her safe?
The point is not that she’s JUST doing dangerous shit, it’s that she’s doing it for a good and noble cause - there’s a difference between being an adrenaline junky and a hero, and while it takes a lot of strength to not only accept those risks but accept your child for being the good person they are, it IS the good thing to do as a parent, to let go and lets them live their own life in the best way they can.
@@matthewbibby8921 there is a difference between telling someone not to do dangerous shit and locking them in a room.
When you have to make up something that stupid to be "right" you're arguing from a point of ignorance and stupidity, not me.
It's bad parenting to teach your kid to embrace martyrdom just like it's bad to attempt to imprison them. I don't know why you think these are the only 2 things you could do, use your head next time before you say something that dumb.
Such a dark, grim episode.
Such a happy, heartwarming ending.
Yeah, especially since it was just a nightmare that never came to pass.
"Over the edge "got the audience on the edge of their seats. My first impression seeing the ending of the episode gave me the impression that Barbara's dad didn't know about her super hero identity.
Nonetheless, Barbara and, her father have an endearing moment in the end.
As a kid: Oh yeah he doesn't know.
As an adult raising a girl: How the hell does he not know? I know it's my kid when she is wearing a sheet over their head. You know what they smell like and can pick out their voice in a crowded room. Of course he knows.
The "I love you... *all* of you" line is so good because it calls back to the fact that Bruce is essentially Gordon's son or nephew too, since he was the first person to take him in after his parents were killed.
I always found funny the way that Barbara's mind portraits Dick, but i guess it is a "Fear toxin" might be using her insecurities about him, thoughts about if he did really love her
thats a great way to justify it
this is the saddest part of the batman series. seeing how everyone grew up, and they don't . Worse Barbara doesnt talk about DIck but rather than Batman that way. I did love Batman Beyond, but it's sad.
"...And possibly some of his DNA in her bedroom."
Fuck, man. The Batman/Batgirl shit will never stop being relentlessly abhorrent
Im about to end the third season (New Batman Adventures) and I havent seen any sexual tension between Bruce and Barbara. More like at the beginning Barbara in the second season was kind of had a crush with Batman, but Bruce never seemed to care or do anything. The Batman Beyond and DCAU comics are not cannon according to Bruce Timm himself, so that Bruce and Barbara's baby shit is not a real thing.
@@madden7732 if I remember correctly, Bruce Timm was the main proponent of the Bruce/Barbara "ship"
@@Raideortega yeah but sincerely, if you re watch the second and third season could you actually see some sexual tension between them? He was more of showing that Barbara felt something for Bruce at some point (for example that dream she had about him and her kissing) but Bruce never seemed to care lol the scene shown in Mistery of the Batwoman just shows Bruce trying to avoid Barbara from her trying to go further. I remember hearing a lot about that story where Bruce left Barbara pregnant and was like holy hell thats fucked up, but after watching the show its safe to say the comics are an Elseworld to the DCAU, because there's literally zero love scenes or tension between both.
@@Raideortega Just to clarify, with second season I mean the adventures of batman and robin and 3rd season is New Batman Adventures, the way they appear in HBO Max.
I freaking hate that pairing so much. Especially when it's when Dick was or has dated her. It makes Bruce become a unlikable dick to Dick. Wow I really just typed that.
I know this is mostly about Barbara, but damn I love Jim
Always the underrared but critical part of Batman's "family"
Gordon has always been my favorite Batman character. His scenes always feel so raw and emotional.
DCAU is so beautifully made you could probably make 100 videos on it
Still waiting on a Static Shock video
I don't know if episode inspired it, but I like how in the Injustice series it is revealed Gordon has known Barbara was Batgirl the entire time. And when she asks in surprise, 'How?" Gordon's response is, "I'm a detective/cop! It's my job!"
Gordon doesn't help Batman fight crime in Gotham, he lets him
This episode has a strong memory for me. When I watched it on Kids WB when I was little my mom made me do something right after the scene of Barbara’s funeral and I told my younger sister (she was 4 and I was 7) to let me know what happened to Batgirl cause I was genuinely shocked by what happened and I ended up missing the ending by the time I finished doing what kept me from seeing it and I asked my little sister and she was like, “Batgirl woke up.” And I was so confused and I remember thinking “…she must have woke up in the coffin?” I didn’t see the actual events till I bought the DVD cause this particular episode didn’t seem to get rerun much at all and I never saw it on Cartoon Network despite often seeing classic BTAS episodes. Kudos, to my sister for telling me the exact truth about the ending though cause as hard to believe as it was, she was right Batgirl did wake up after dying.
To this day, seeing many horror movies, I rarely have reacted to a jump scare as I did when Barbara hit the car. I never saw it coming and it truly scared me.
Yup. That was a moment, watching as a kid, that I’ll still never forget. Traumatizing.
Same here I was expecting the old Batman saves the day last minute grabbling hook but she just kept falling 😢😢
Probably my favorite episode. They didn't treat us kids like total idiots. This was brutal, raw and real.
I love the running joke of batman sleeping with Barbara. It was messed up and not something I think Bruce would honestly do even in the "Heat of the moment" but the constant call backs to that moment I find hilarious
Bruce Timm however thinks its a totally valid ship
Bruce, there's no way he could do that. But Bruce Timm told you to hold my beer
I remember how sad it was to watch the episode already having been spoiled for the final plot twist and being like: "man, watching this like a normal episode would have been great"
Same here :/
That scene of Barbara's body crashing on the car is still disturbing to me to this day.
I wish the description for this episode on HBOMax didn’t spoil that it was a dream.
I know the twist is definitely the best part
Someone's worst fear is the consequences of their death. You've got to be at a _very_ strange point in life for that to happen.
It could be argued that, with the focus of Babs' vision being on Bruce and Jim, Dick just offering support instead of grieving was where she saw him. My number 1 clue that this scenario was not what it seemed: Sadly, the focus and competence of the GCPD as they pursued Bruce. Montoya, and maybe even Bullock, would have in 'real life' tried to pull Jim back a bit, and Bruce would have given them a much tougher time - and sorry, no way the GCPD's boats would have intercepted Jack as they came out of the cave. That was nightmare logic at work, where the threat/monster spots you from a far distance, and is then right on top of you.
Barbara's greatest fear was her father going rogue upon learning her identity in the worst way possible. Thankfully, he already knew and approved.
Yet in the Batman Beyond episode, "Eyewitness", she ends up doing the same thing she feared her father would do to Terry. To be honest, her past relationship with Bruce may have clouded her judgement.
Exactly but she come to her senses near the end of the episode.
@@MalleySimpson Before that episode, why did she harbor bias against him? Not Bruce, Terry?
@@petercelano7057she was a vigilante for a bit when batman was first introduced, she knows of the horror that happens on the job, she didn’t want terry to suffer a similar fate, but ever since the end of the series and movie, she has faith, terry will do well. Hell, he does. Especially when u watch the Batman beyond episode in justice league unlimited season 2
Bloody hell. Putting the story aside for a second, the animation I'm seeing is BRILLIANT. They don't make them like they use to.
I read this video as "Over the Hedge is scary".
Gotta love framing batman as a father figure. Making them an item is gross and wrong in this continuity.
Freudian.
@@slewone4905 no one gives a fuck about Freud
Without a doubt, one of the greatest Batman stories ever told! The opening is intense, Babs' death is horrifying and that final scene between Babs and Jim gets me right in the heart.
3:38 I thought we agreed to never talk about this romance. NEVER!
For real. My only hang-up about the series.
Yeah this episode was really sad and depressing and freaking insane.
I just have issues of Gordon and Gotham PD going trigger happy on the Bat Family until I found out it was all Barbara’s fear coming to life via Scarecrow’s fear toxin. It must have taken place at least hours after Scarecrow was captured.
It really says something about the quality of the writing, acting, and animating of this show that we're still talking about it 30 years later and that in many respects it is still the standard to which all Batman media is measured...
Another superb essay by one of, if not the, best in the game. Adoring all the DCAU content, hope it doesn’t dry up too soon
Quickly becoming my favorite Batman channel
i always thought that jim didn't know at the end, he just didn't care. he trusts his daughter as an adult, and whatever job shes got its fine. she's clearly struggling with if she should tell him or not, so he gives her an out - if she wants to tell him about her new night job as a dominatrix then she can when shes ready.
Why does he say all of you then?
It was tough watching everything get progressively worse throughout the episode as a kid
The Censors tell WB they couldn't show Barbara getting hit by the car, but the POV shot from inside the police car is SOO MUCH WORSE!!!
Besides “Old Wounds” this is my favorite episode. This was brilliantly written, and pushed the bounds of what was allowed in a cartoon tv show. From start to finish, it NEVER felt like the climax was over. How many felt like it was a genuine scary movie when Batgirl’s body ACTUALLY hit the car? So Batgirl’s fear is her death. Her fear about her father is nonacceptance of her lifestyle and even rage with the bat family that she loves. Her fear with Dick was him not caring enough about her death to quit. Tim Drake became an orphan and a fugitive at like 13 so his life is ruined. And in the end, the two men she values most, in spite of all their anger, reconcile…only for it to be too late as they plummet to their deaths. Fear toxin never hit so hard. In a way, WE were the ones the fear toxin hit because everything we had grown to love about the Batman animated series was crushed beneath one bad day. And they did it in 30 minutes WITH commercials!
Then, when Batgirl wakes up, we finally settle down from our climactic adrenaline rush, ending with the Commissioner either admitting that he knows and respects her choices or he doesn’t know and respects her choices. In under 60 seconds, they show us through Commissioner Gordon the powerful message: Love is more powerful than fear.
Bro you do not need to go THIS hard on these videos honestly you’re the best RUclipsr an I’m so glad I found your channel
Despite only appearing in a few minutes in a flashback this was one of the Scarecrow's most finest moments and depicted his fear toxin super well. Sometimes his fear toxin shows visions of spiders and snakes which are really cheap, it's meant to show people of their greatest fears and this episode managed to do it well.
This episode deserves so much praise
It's funny that Barbara did to this to Terry in Batman Beyond. She didn't put much effort into her duties but got on Terry about his. Crazy stuff
@Will N What? That wouldn't make any sense since Barbara and Bruce didn't have a kid, which is good.
Her poor past relationship with Bruce may have clouded her judgement.
I was just watching the 2nd eps of TNBA, you're channel always surprises me how relatable it feels. keep the awesome work fella!
Bro your videos are so well written , the amount of dedication is definitely visible 🤟🏽
Funny how GCPD goes all out trying to kill Batman but let’s their city be destroyed by a clown
Yes I know it’s a dream but still it’s happened before
Thank you for making this video Leo. I've always wanted to see this episode discussed in this way. When I first saw it as a kid I was freaked out by it. It was dark man. The consequences seemed very real and permanent until the reveal of the fear gas.
Man the massive difference in animation quality between both series
Can we talk about how amazing the scarecrow's character design looks
That episode created a huge dent in the mythos of Batman, for me, when I was a kid. He had zero contingency plan for the distinct possibility of any member of the Family getting seriously hurt or killed. Also, if you want to do a Me Too episode about Bruce and Barbara please do so. There is enough ammunition with TAS/New Adventures/Batwomen/Beyond to ask some tough questions. It is obvious that by Beyond, Barbara and Bruce are not in a good place and nothing can be said or done to fully heal that wound. Terry mends the bridge but only for the sake of crime fighting pragmatism, if not she would've gone to the funeral and that's about it.
Barbra is an adult. She can make her own choices on who she sleeps with…
To say she can’t infantilizes women.
Once you’re an adult you get to choose weather or not you sleep with a Batman twice your age.
Bruce and Barb aren't in a good place by the time Beyond starts because Barb could never get Bruce to settle down fully, and commit to living life instead of dedicating himself to being Batman. It got old, they wanted different things, and she moved on. She says this to Terry directly. I don't agree with their relationship. But Barb is not a victim, has never claimed to be, and while that relationship did put them on bad terms by Beyond, it's not for the reasons you're implying.
@@jackroyaltea5034 Bruce slept with his son's ex-girlfriend, who he is mentoring, who is his best friend's daughter. He's also the third or fourth most powerful person on earth depending on who you ask. Boundaries and trust were 100% broken. She doesn't have to be underage for the whole thing to be objectively wrong.
@@jackroyaltea5034 the Batman gets whoever he wants period. So yes babs isn’t responsible
@@jackroyaltea5034 bad take, Barbara in no way stands as a normal woman, and more importantly, Bruce has more power over her than any big man in Hollywood had over any actress, stuff with Timm's fetish got really grossed and messed up. Ruined killing joke too.
Yo man I really love your in-depth analysis videos. They make my day.
I reckon you’ll like bojack horseman .its one of the most complex and character based piece of writing you’ll see
Please give it a shot
almost makes you wonder why this episode is such a fan favorite!
This episode actually proves how wrong Barbara is to blame Bruce for her being Batgirl. She choose this life to be a crime fighter and even got the blessing of her father to be so.
I get why the ending is done the way it is. However how cool could it have been to see a whole season of the Bat family on the run, trying to somehow get in Gordon's good graces. Talk about some dark gritty stories they could do.
I was like 4 when this episode originally aired on Fox kids after school. And let me tell you, I was NOT ready for this fake out. I was terrified and in the edge of my seat the whole time.
This episode, it was such a gut punch! I was shocked and shaking....and I do not, and did not see that as a bad thing! Because by the end of the episode, the relief of seeing her alive was mind blowing! I am SO very glad that we got shows like this when I was a kid!!!
He pumps videos out faster than Batman can knockout convicts
I swear these past couple of months I’ve just been randomly clicking on your vids just because of the title alone. Obscure enough for me to say “hmmmmmm…I’m intrigued”
Just subscribed 🤘🏻
Over the Edge is definitely my FAVORITE BTAS episode. It smashes the conventional story of Batman and makes you consider what would happen if EVERYTHING WENT WRONG. I still remember watching it for the first time. Through the first half of the episode I was wondering how conventionally everything could get fixed (at least where Gordon wasn't relentlessly hunting Batman down). At about the halfway mark I realized that there wasn't going to be any resolution and that this HAD TO BE a dream sequence. But it's still an awesome episode and really makes you think.
The only thing I would have changed about this episode is change Barbara's Killer from Scarecrow to the Joker as a reference to the Killing Joke minus the getting shot in the spine part and she'd become Oracle by the end of the episode
Aw sweet! New Implicitly Pretentious video six days before my birthday! Great stuff as always! Been watching your channel for 10 months and looking forward to more! Keep up the great work! Definitely one of my favorite channels! 👍
This episode reminds me of that injustice issue where in Jim’s last moments alive he calls Batman and Barbara and has a super emotional scene
I watched this in college. Turned it on but missed the first 5 minutes so didn't see the scarecrow setup. Made for a very shocking watch experience until the end.
I remember when i was watching the series i heard that batgirl died in an episode a while before i got up to it so for months i genuinely thought that she would die until i finally watched it
I’m perfectly fine with you doing nothing but DCAU stuff. I’m loving this content.
I misread the title as "Over the Hedge"...
*BEN FOLDS SOUNDTRACK INTENSIFIES*
Love that this came up on my feed, glad someone else realizes what a work of art this episode is....I remember starting the episode as a kid and being like, "The cops are chasing Batman!? And Gordon knows!? What the heck is going on!?"
Not what I expected. Over the Edge is also a tabletop RPG from Atlas Games, and apparently the search algorithm thinks they're the same thing.
This channel is my new favorite rabbit hole
Has always been one of my favorite episodes! Thank you for bringing this up!
So, Over the Edge has always been one of -if not- my favorite episodes … I watched it live when it first aired, and was obviously DEVASTATED, confused, finally relieved, and ultimately incredibly moved at the ripe age of 9 years old. As a day-one Barbara stan it shaped me and touched me in ways I couldn’t even express at the time. But tell me why I STILL cried watching your video just now when you talk about how the episode ends without her being an interruption in Bruce/Dick/Commish’s story. Wow. I guess there are always tears left to shed over something as brilliant & beautiful as this^. Thank you 🙏🏼
I watched this episode recently for the first time. When they actually show Barbara hit the car I genuinely jumped. It actually scared me
It makes total sense that Gordon knew Batman was Bruce Wayne all along. He saw Bruce adopt Dick, Then all of a sudden Batman has a side kick. He saw Bruce adopt another kid, and then he has another Sidekick. and there where far too many cases that had Batman and Bruce Wayne involved. Gordon knows that most other people can never know because he is the one who allows this to happen
Gordon points out he learns Batman's identity from snooping around Barbara's computer in the episode.
I remember the first time I saw this episode as a kid, I would just rewind Barbara’s death scene over and over again. Watching it again just over a month ago really had me thinking “Jesus Christ” the entire way through. It’s just escalation after escalation, and you breathe a sigh of relief when in finally ends.
"Dreams can't simulate things that haven't happened/you can't die in a dream" is an Old Wives Tail. You can't really "die" in the sense that you can't perceive what happens after death because, well, then you would actually be dead & likely perceive nothing, but it is entirely possible to "hit the ground." It's happened to me before. It's just that the instinctive fear response usually wakes you up before it happens. If you're wondering what it's like, I imagine not that different from what you expect. It didn't really "hurt" because you didn't actually fall, & a healthy brain has a limited ability to "imagine" pain. I basically saw myself, in the third person, bounce from the impact & become a crumpled heap. It was disturbing, but in the end, it was just a nightmare. Point being, those things you hear that "can't happen in dreams" are usually nothing more than things people repeat so often that they're taken as true when they're actually baseless.
Now, that was my case, but dreams certainly CAN have a more profound effect on someone. In Barbara's case, she saw her worst fears realized, & it caused her to decide she needed to tell her father. In that regard, I agree with the rest of your take. The only thing I could add is that "in this case, I can't" is meant to say that Jim wanted to retain plausible deniability. As long as Barbara didn't technically tell him she was Batgirl, he could act as though there's no conflict of interest. The idea that the episode shows how important Jim is to Batman's operation, & how easily he could defeat Batman if he wanted to, is a good point that I hadn't thought of.
Amazing. I am glad you make these.
Weren’t never going to have a show like this ever again, are we?
I love the fact Gordon can be trusted with the secret. He's the smartest police in all of Gotham's history.
scarecrow is simultaneously the weakest and strongest enemy. Fear is ultimately intagible, fear cannot hurt you, but there's the reality, that you cannot fight fear. You can ignore it, accept, or try and bury it, but you cannot punch it, you cannot kill it, the best you can hope for is to stand in its way and refuse to yield.
The scarecrow’s redesign was truly terrifying
Thanks Trauma Man- another amazing video on another amazing episode
this is random but if you check out the date to this episode may 23rd 1998
and a year later to may 23rd 1999
they got the name off of this episode and tried to recreate it on owen hart, such a coincidence
not sure if anyone has noticed it
2:48 Dang, Robin REALLY punished Scarecrow for what he did to Batgirl. 😏
This caught me off guard as a kid before I learned about what if stories.
My dude's been on a DCAU kick lately and I'm here for it.
one of my favorite episodes. that raid on the Bat cave is amazing
Something about Paper Twins as an intro hits every freaking time.
Barbra sleeping with Batman was the most disturbing thing I ever saw. Then she was impregnated by him. I turned it off right then.
I always assumed Jim thought Barbra was a stripper and just accepted it.
The redesign of batgirl is the only one I find 100% better in New Batman Adventures
Throwing Jason into this episode plot
Bruce probably still affected Jay's death: I know how feel
Gordon: no you don't *proceeds to insult Bruce*
Me: 😢 shut up Gordon
I was absolutely GUTTED when they revealed in BATMAN BEYOND that Bruce eventually slept with Barbara. It's the one piece of continuity in The DCAU that I will NEVER. ACCEPT. EVER.
5:25 To clarify: The man talking to Gordon in this scene is Mayor Hamilton Hill (cool that the series kept him after the Clock King incident, speaking of another woefully underutilized Batman villain). It's still true that the Gotham DA wanted Gordon off the case, and given that Gordon basically did what the FBI did at Ruby Ridge and Waco for pure revenge, it's not hard to imagine that the DA probably couldn't prosecute anyone involved. The courts would have a field day with the police misconduct alone.
Lol that killing joke reference hits different when you watch the build up and end of Barbra run as batgirl 😬
I literally just rewatched shadow of the bat and was like “oh now now over the edge” 😭😭😭
Too tru
Another fantastic episode by you. I look forward to these every week
You took a HUGE gamble there, but the car falling through the ground did *not* ruin it. Props, I'mma go back to crying now
Well, considering what happened in Return Of The Joker.........Think about THAT for a moment
This channel is something special.