the best part about Sri Rajiv Malhotra is that he is so well read ,well researched , well articulated that he stays calm whenever his argument is challenged .
one of very important and brilliant discussion and an Epic book.... one needs the caliber and deep knowledge as Mr Malhotra... the nation should be great full for the research he has done .... this has given direction and clarity to understand our civilization.... which these criminal evangelist and marxist has done everything to distort and destroy our history completely...which started from Nehru who was this western rationalist who paved way to these bunch, who has now become a big army.... we all should contribute and research on this to support and give inputs to revive this great history..... the body of work Mr Malhotra has already done is phenomenal... this has given a fantastic framework to begin with...we all should further this , a still a lifetime of knowledge which is out there needs to be explored..... and we need to counter these anti nationals who have created this situation
The more Tully tried to 'incorporate' Sanatana Dharma in to Christianity in the guise of 'being same', the more Malhotra pushed the envelope & extended the turf war! LOL Very interesting conversation. I agree with the previous comment, this is not going to change proselytization that is currently underway in India, but this talk at least highlights the hypocrisy behind the Judeo-Christian philosophies & give all of us a point of reference as to where we Dharmic folks are & how to hold on to our ground, dig our heels when push comes to shove. Thank you Rajiv, for waking us up.
Television should telecast such intelligent discussions ( on various topics of-course not just this one) . Instead all television offers is mind numbing entertainment.
Mutual respect will not be possible for the truly devout Muslim or Christian. To respect Hinduism and view it as a legitimate religion will take away from their belief in the absolute truth of the inerrancy of their own scripture. Mutual avoidance is probably the only way to peacefully coexist.
Perhaps avoidance means, don't mess with them, nor do they be allowed to mess. A secular society must stop recognizing any religion, abolish all religious holidays, devoid them of non-profit status and not register any organization with religious affiliation. Also stop owning and running any living religious center.
Dear@@kotisreekrishna8714 , The modern world is a global village. Is it practical for anyone to restrict ideas in the age of internet (Even the idea to "stop recognizing" is an idea only). My submission for religious Hindus/Dharmic Tradition followers is that we are in an age of unprecedented assault on our Religious narrative (through Western biased de-spiritualized Indology), Active conversions (especially in Southern India), Secular Govts. taking over our Temples & mutts (diversion of this money to Govt. coffers), caste- pride, Language -pride etc. (A true Dharmic person should try to preserve the Universal truths of our sages in all language traditions like : Sanskrit, Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, Hindi etc). Due to these extraordinary situation of hostage, please support Hindu institutions and organizations financially or with your volunteer service if you can and encourage others to do so.
Its not enough to thank rajiv, we must all stand together and try to influence as many people as possible. We need to each one of us increase our knowledge and talk to people. Its obvious that Christianity is like a cancer that spreads through the evil work of missionaries and islam spreads through the evil sword whereas all Hindus can do is appeal to people's hearts and hope that logic has not evaded them completely.
Must say it was a very good discussion.. Mr Tully brought out some very needed nuance, on behalf of Christianity. Makes the entire discourse and arguments made by Mr. Malhotra richer.
Rajiv Malhotra Ji doing the yeoman service to Hindus singlehandedly not done sofar by battery of Gurus. He is precious to every Hindu who live by Tan&Man (ManasahVacha) as Dharmic 👏 Here he literally checkmated Tully completely, I do believe this Mark Tully not just bbc journo but a foot soldier of missionaries in guiding Conversion mafias in India
I guess, one reason, these religions are history-centered, is, they came up in kaliyuga. they have a beginning. and so, I think, they will have an end. then they will be history... everything which is connected to pure love and true knowledge will remain, as it always does. one has to know natures law, to follow them. nature is divine and Her laws have no history, just absolut power. one can feel these laws, because one is part of nature. these kaliyugareligions don`t have anything to do with nature, it seems to me. I am glad, true knowledge is comming up so strongly. europe has to find its own roots and way too. . especially germany is "historybound"... this "history" was written by their conquerer. this "history" became a religion, inclusive inquisition. if one does not believe or have doubts, one has to go to jail... like in middleage, when the christian church turtured nonbelievers or people who are different. this time of inquisition has to come to an end. and it will. truth is eternal. as LOVE IS
fighting with evil is speaking the truth. the only leg, which remains for the bull dharma in kaliyuga, is truthfullness. yes, we will fight and never give up! there is no other way.
just want to correct you on the philosophy, It is not a bull.....it is the cow named Kamadhenu....you can read more about it from many sources online. It is nice to know somebody not indigenous to the land is making effort to understand philosophies from Sanatana dharma
Rajiv Malhotra's contibution is in terms of the concept of "history centrism" to help Hindus understand Christianity. His concept of "Truth Claim" will prove to be a great tool to blunt the exclusivism and the consequent discord and violence the semetic religions continue to heap on the peace loving and tolerant East.
Loreto Sealdah in Kolkata under Sister Cyril was a mass conversion enterprise. They have created an ARMY of converters by engaging the students themselves in this activity. I have personally experienced and seen their activities first-hand under the guise of "social work". We were taken from Loreto House to see the "great" work they were doing. the students used to go every thursday (supposedly a school holiday) for compulsory social service to surrounding villages. I guess that's when they had converted all the local people on the sealdah station platform (the school is strategically placed close to a HUGE train station). Each class has sections up to G as far as I can remember, full of this student army helping the nuns convert. The idea was to import the idea into Loreto House (our school). I dont know how far that plan went because this was decades ago. So I'm sorry, I cant take a charitable view of these nuns. I pretty much think they belong in jail for employing child labor, apart from many other things. I also think that they have created a whole generation of opportunistic people who have a feeling of entitlement for being Christian. What they have NOT done is social service. I was sickened to the bone when that Sister Cyril was given some big national honor, I think Padmashree or something. Shows how these honors belong in the garbage.
Secularist, if it means anti-religious, in India, it applies only against Hinduism. The seculars have no problem of any other religions other than Hinduism. An irrational and strange position to take!
If you listen carefully, everything that Mark Tully thinks we should have conversations about, every single point is about how Christianity can take things from Hinduism to enrich itself. But how is it respectful to take things from another while not telling the other that your most important belief is that all his Gods are false? Only the Christian god and Jesus are true. Krishna, Shiva, Devi and everyone else you believe in are false according to Mark. So how is he respecting us? I do believe he is trying, but his religion, one he believes it is karma to follow and for some reason, not change, even when faced with this wealth of information, doesnt allow it. I wish Mark would answer this question.
1:26:07 That something happened when Indira Gandhi was in power that Indira got back in power after emergency with the help of Indian COMMUNISTS. COMMUNIST didn't demand for rail ministry, Coal ministry, Home ministry, Telecommunication ministry, Other financial lucrative ministerial posts in government. Instead they demanded for post of Chancellor and Vice chancellor of educational institutions, Education ministry, Various posts in history departments, Like NCERT State education boards ICHR. These COMMUNIST in various posts in education sector promoted the scholarly works of bias and dogmatic psuedo-scholars suffering from inferiority complex like Mohammad Habib, Irfan habib, Satish Chandra, Romila Thapar,etc. And ignored,rejected,sidelined Authentic,Generous and hard working scholar like Ramesh chandra majumdar Sitaram goel Dharmpal Jadunath sarkar And many more. Hence we have 2 to 3 generation of dehinduised Indians thanks to COMMUNISTS. You can check NCERT books to check this.
Mark is generally a very likeable and pleasant person. That is what I meant. I don't think Mark is one of those trying to appropriate Hindu concepts into Christianity. He clearly admits he is fascinated with the concept of unity consciousness in Hinduism.
For Mark Tully: Well known are incursions by British pirates, privateers or armed explorers,provided they were operating with the approval of their government.The need for a unilateral transfer of funds to britain was a constant factor and in fact increased progressively over time.The burden of the east India co. london establishment and of dividends to its shareholders was replaced after 1858 by "The cost of the Secretary of States India Office",while the India debt in england,already considerable thanks to the co. military adventures.All such adventures meant heavier outlay on the army mainly at a cost to the Indian exchequer.eg: In Egypt 1882 by gladstone,Sudan 1885-86/96 againts the Mahdi movement,China againts the Boxers in 1900.Military cost under curzon to the Indian govt by 1904-05 was 51.9% of indias budget(HOME charges).In a nut shell India was paying for englands invasions of other countries.An Indian army pvt received 9 Rupees amonth while his british counterpart received 24 Rupees plus a number of allowances.These "HOME CHARGES" also included pensions for british India officers,military and other stores purchased in england,cost of army training,cost of transport and campaigns outside India but charged on Indian finances.Breakup of Home charges 1901-02 3 million BP army expenses,4.3 million BP stores purchase,1.3 million BP pensions,6.4 million BP Railway guranteed interest others for a total of 17.3 million BP. The British Monarchy had an easy way of earning money by granting monopoly to a company under the garb of developing national industry. One such company was the East India Company which had been granted a royal charter by Queen Elizabeth I, for a period of 15 years. This charter gave the company a monopoly to trade with all countries east of the Cape of Good Hope and the west of Straits of Magellan. Interestingly, the British East India Company,which even had Elizabeth I as one of its shareholders was the first limited liability company in the world. The modern corporation is a child of the East India Company. In fact the history of the company answers some of the great questions faced by businessmen all the time - how to raise capital, build trust with customers as well suppliers, motivate employees enough and keep shareholders happy once money has been raised from them. FYI nothing was "GIVEN" to India.The Indian taxpayer paid for it all and how.
@SanjayVaidya Liked the way you laid out in a nutshell commerce and funds for miltary action by 'The Empire'. Would you care to point to sources which explain this in a more expansive form? Am trying to read up on the Crown's policies regarding funding their military adventures not just in India but the other colonies as well.
@prasadgc What I sensed is that "Mark Tully" was on a defensive mode. Maybe, by presenting the "purvapaksha" so articulately in this book RM caught him on the back-foot.
Rajiv Malhotra needs a cogent reply for all the issues he raises from the various religious leaders in the West. While India tries to solve her internal problems, she should make sure there are no religious conversions in India by foreign organizations. Since there is not one Islam and therefore one responsible spokesperson, and same is the case with Christianity, there will be no responsible and universally agreed response to Malhotra's pertinent questions. THE BASIC QUESTION FOR INDIA IS: SHOULD HINDUISM BE TOLERANT OR BE RESPECTFUL OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT ARE INTOLERANT? I THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE BECAUSE IT IS GRADUAL SUICIDE. IF ONE CARES FOR ONE'S CULTURE, STUDY THE WORKS OF MALHOTRA AND DONATE GENEROUSLY TO HIS INFINITY FOUNDATION TO PRESERVE OUR GLORIOUS CULTURE. CHINA IS DOING IT WITH CONFUCIANISM! Rao Nanduri
I like Mark Truly. What a wonderful and decent man. He didn't lose his cool even once and even acknowledged his admiration the unity consciousness of Hinduism. Hats off Sir!
Just last year some one tried to convert me to Christianity with an argument that is the only way, and just doing good things and having good behavior don't count. Once I asked him whether Gandhi will go to hell or heaven it was all slippery slope for him. I, however, got a free lunch.
Up to 1hr 11 mins discussions Mark cannot agree on "history centrism & exclusivity" of Christianity, pointing Hindus do have "history centrism" by way of different mutts each claim their way is the best. "Truth Claim" also Mark says same as Hindus. If all are same (like Hindu Dharma) why then Christianity and Islam are the most 2 top religions destroyed the native culture/tribes of origination (Europe / Arab) and fiercely fought themselves. Even though all religions speaks of basics, the interpretation leads to this destruction? Santana Dharma never had this self or foreign destruction. India still holds most native tribes as well preserves different cultural habits across nation. Looking closely on theology, can this be approximated!!?? Judaism ~ Advaita (ultimately become one with Gid) Christianity ~ Vishishtadvaita (will be close to God but separate) Islam ~ Dwaita (always in separation with God)
If Mark Tully really believes Mahatma Gandhi's statement that the religion you are born in is the best for you, why hasn't he not criticized Xian organisations whose primary motivation is to convert 'pagans' to Christianity.
Christianity got into a real mess when it tried to marry Christianity with the Greek philosophy. Augustine was the one who came up with the concept of the Original Sin and made Christianity into a body centric theology. Christ resurrected physically with all wounds of crucifixion restored to him. This concept is also applied to all believers on the Judgement Day when they will resurrect PHYSICALLY like Christ..The Greek philosophy like Hinduism believe the true Self of man is soul, atman and not physical body.Christianity got its knickers into a twist of Trinity which theologians are still debating after almost 1800 years!
Great video. Everytime Mr Rajiv Malhotra would point out something, Mr Mark Tully would go on and say... O I dont know, to me it means this or that. I think anytime in a general discussion if you get personal, it means that you have lost it. Because if Mark Tully says, if he believes in something, then you really cant argue with that. But it makes me wonder, how narrow minded his beliefs are, esp when Rajiv talks about putting Jesus in a Mandir and a Hindu murti in a Church.
Mark Tully was so truly open and morally honest, in speaking the reality of whatever he thinks or comprehends. He never did any despicable show of false generalisations and "love all. poison and medicine,.. rose and dhatura flower,.. fire and water,.. love and rape,,,donation and theft/plunder.. all are same". type of lowly/blind/criminally foolish cliches/sloganneering/statements. he was so honest. And only the honest can attain advancement.
The audio wasn’t clear in my phone. Looks like an interesting conversation. Mark Tully is also brilliant. Some great people have said all religions are true. That concept to me is a oxymoron. From the Bible - we are all sinners, we can’t be judges I find attractive. From Gita I have learned quite many life lessons. I am an agnostic, every organised religions have limitations and faults. Some faith we are taught is completely false. Anyway good discussion by the two. Ethics in religion should move with time, 2018 can’t be in conformity with what was relevant many centuries ago.
Rather fantastic that a journalist like Mark Tully doesn't know about the inducements and lies that fuel conversion to his day. Jai BBC...how informed even its former rep in India is! Vamanan
Tully is not a bad guy i think...what can he do when his logical mind is being forced to submit to the requirements of his religious faith. He gets personal so often....which is not Christianity, it is Hinduism, but Tully is to be admired too...not many Christians get into dialogue because they are afraid that they wont be able to defend their actions or the actions of their religious leaders. They usually condemn before they speak for fear that they will understand the separate viewpoint.
Cosmos Quest means East West Interaction.Search origins Unity in diversity-Cosmology vedas Interlinks The subject of discussion leads to Science in Philosophy.-see books Vidyardhi Nanduri
I like Mark too, but theres nothing great about not losing your cool when all you do is avoid issues because your religion does not equip you to face up to them.
Just a fact, Virgin Birth of Jesus is required article of fait in Islam too. Islam has a problem with Jesus being a Divine entity. wasnt expecting Rajiv Malhotra to not to know such a basic fact of Islam. My comment is not meant for any argument.
Christianity is authenticated by history, says Mark Tully. (as opposed, perhaps, to the highly mythlogy-oriented Hinduism). This shows that despite all his soft-talk and attitude, our dear Tully's religious sensibility shrinks from much of Hinduism. Vamanan
Rajiv Ji, i think its all about power play. Hinduism does not preach and go around trying to convert. That is not the motive.for hindus. . We will reduce in numbers because we have other religions whose main aim is to grow in numbers and that gives them power. We need to internalize our faith first..As hindus We need to learn to stay rooted in our religion. So we need to teach our own people from the time they are born. It is the responsibility of every mother to instill the religiois faith to her children. More hinduism classes for school going children and religious classes at Ashtam. Provide incentives at the Asram which will motivate hindus to attend religious classes. Whether they respect our religion or we respect their religion- greed for power will always be there. We need to invest our energy to get the right gurus to guide us slowly to moksha.. in this way we will be very resilient and will not fall prey to predators.
Mark was BBC correspondent in India for god knows how many years. Over 20 I think. That he spoke really crap Hindi said it all for me. No attempt at all to open himself to learning an indoeuropean language though I know many Europeans who speak fluent Chinese and Japanese.
being spiritual is personal and one has to feel the divine for himself so every guru feels differently, so i feel infact authenticating a spiritual claim is silly and foolish simply because no one can have same experiences as others did.
aggressive conversion using allurements & other forms of disguised coercion is a sin . it should be taken care of in India through adequate regulation . esp the foreign funding part of it .
Have to disagree with the claim that Hindu Gurus are not authenticated. Here is why: Hindu Guru is basing his teaching based upon Veda, which makes it authentic. Just wanted to clarify about this point.
What I am confused is How Jesus becomes the son of God? Mother Mary was an ordinary human being and progeny of Adam and Eve. How could Jesus become the son of God when he is born out of Mother Mary? Who is a progeny of Adam and Eve?
Ravendra T In Abrahamic religions Eve and consequently all women do not have the same status as Adam and consequently all men. Eve was created from rib of Adam. All women are therefore like objects, or somewhere between a man and an object. The word female means "inferior male". God is worshipped as Holy Father, never as a Holy Mother. Woman have a womb in which the seed of man grows in to a child. A woman is not contributing half the DNA from the egg or ovum part of the embryo in Abrahamic religions.
There whole idea was to divide and rule India. So they cooked up Aryan invasion theory and tried to divide India and create conflict. Now the new archeological evidence show otherwise and there was not evidence. Actually it was Anglo-Saxon invasion that drove Iris and native to the English country side and called then selves Anglo and Englishman. They also made a English language official and old English was just German language. Now British would explain India history in similar way.
Anyone (including Mark Tully) who is ignorant of historical (autheticated) basis of Indian culture/religion/ancient history shoudl read works of Subhash Kak, Nilesh Oak, Dharampal, Sarasvati research by Kalyanaraman. Check Amazon or Flipcart or Junglee.com
Mark Tully is a liberal Christian who does not believe in the tenets of Christianity or the dominant Orthodox Church; which means that he is beating about the bush most of the time. Rajivji as usual is superb; he know more about Christianity than Mark Tully.
@hashimi habibalim....He never contested the claim about Jesus being born to a virgin.......He pointed out the inherent conflict that if Christians's claims must be true(JESUS SON OF GOD),then Islam's philosophy should be wrong i.e Islam doesn consider Jesus as SON OF GOD.it just considers him as a prophet....and vice versa....
If A believes that religion A is the salvation then it is incumbent duty to persuade others to his point of view. You just can't make rules about it accept that the process is peaceful. Adi Shankar did persuade Mandan Mishra that Hindu dharma is true while Buddha dhamma is not, and Mandan MIshra became disciple Adi Shankar. If Adi Shankar is allowed this why not others. Fundamental dilemma Hindus have is if they do convert a Christian or a Muslim to Hindu which jati/caste he will be assigned. Hindu should abolish jati/caste system, and they may have superior system to attract others. If they don't, and subscribe to anuloma-pratiloma principle from Manu Smriti they will be on the path of declining fraction of demography.
I know the purpose of this discussion was to promote Rajiv Malhotra's book, but I felt that he (RM) was not being a good listener at all. He would constantly talk over Mark Tully, interrupt him when he was about to make a point, and wait for him to finish a sentence so he could have his say, without actually listening to what Mark was saying. That's not a good way to achieve mutual respect. Let the other person have his say in full, and listen to him!
If Hinduism is the real religion with a real God then you should not be afraid of conversions. Everyone want to know who is the real God. That quest will continue for thinking people.
Ha, smart alec, conversions matter for land...for property. Christianity is not a religion, it is a political system, it converts and in the name of tithings and doing good to the church, takes back the money and also that way the entire land becomes christian. Which is a fake religion. AND DEFINITELY NOT A RELIGION FOR THINKING PEOPLE. ALSO, IT HAS NOT JOY, JUST SUFFERING AND SUFFERING. PAIN AND DEATH. LOOK AT ITS CELEBRATIONS, WHICH WERE PASTED ON PAGAN FESTIVALS---THAT IS HOW IT SPREAD, BY FORCE. BY MAKING Christianity A STATE RELIGION SO OTHERS WERE NOT ALLOW TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION. all manipulation.
If Christianity is the real religion with a real God then why should they do conversions? Cant "real Christian God" attract people into Christianity without bribing and making untrue allegations against other regions?
It's breaking the culture. And we not want to break our culture. We have our own civilisation just like the Chinese have their own. I have no problem with Indian Christians who has it's allegiance to India and not Europe. India has a rich civilisation for over 5000 years and people should respect that.
aggressive conversion using allurements & other forms of disguised coercion is a sin . it should be taken care of in India through adequate regulation . esp the foreign funding part of it.
the best part about Sri Rajiv Malhotra is that he is so well read ,well researched , well articulated that he stays calm whenever his argument is challenged .
one of very important and brilliant discussion and an Epic book.... one needs the caliber and deep knowledge as Mr Malhotra... the nation should be great full for the research he has done .... this has given direction and clarity to understand our civilization.... which these criminal evangelist and marxist has done everything to distort and destroy our history completely...which started from Nehru who was this western rationalist who paved way to these bunch, who has now become a big army....
we all should contribute and research on this to support and give inputs to revive this great history..... the body of work Mr Malhotra has already done is phenomenal... this has given a fantastic framework to begin with...we all should further this , a still a lifetime of knowledge which is out there needs to be explored..... and we need to counter these anti nationals who have created this situation
The more Tully tried to 'incorporate' Sanatana Dharma in to Christianity in the guise of 'being same', the more Malhotra pushed the envelope & extended the turf war! LOL Very interesting conversation. I agree with the previous comment, this is not going to change proselytization that is currently underway in India, but this talk at least highlights the hypocrisy behind the Judeo-Christian philosophies & give all of us a point of reference as to where we Dharmic folks are & how to hold on to our ground, dig our heels when push comes to shove. Thank you Rajiv, for waking us up.
Mark Tully was struggling for words here when he was asked to comment on few issues..while Rajiv Malhotra was very calm and composed.. :)
Brilliant.....simply Brilliant
Television should telecast such intelligent discussions ( on various topics of-course not just this one) . Instead all television offers is mind numbing entertainment.
you know TV is not for the intelligent, especially today....
Dharma View tv is not for humans, let alone intelligent or dumb.
rajivji you are one of the most underrated person i have ever known!
Mutual respect will not be possible for the truly devout Muslim or Christian. To respect Hinduism and view it as a legitimate religion will take away from their belief in the absolute truth of the inerrancy of their own scripture. Mutual avoidance is probably the only way to peacefully coexist.
+Harapriya K Well said , Keep your distance from them. Dont let them muddle your mind.
Perhaps avoidance means, don't mess with them, nor do they be allowed to mess. A secular society must stop recognizing any religion, abolish all religious holidays, devoid them of non-profit status and not register any organization with religious affiliation. Also stop owning and running any living religious center.
kashsoldier Problem is you can avoid them but the wont avoid you.
Dear@@kotisreekrishna8714 , The modern world is a global village. Is it practical for anyone to restrict ideas in the age of internet (Even the idea to "stop recognizing" is an idea only). My submission for religious Hindus/Dharmic Tradition followers is that we are in an age of unprecedented assault on our Religious narrative (through Western biased de-spiritualized Indology), Active conversions (especially in Southern India), Secular Govts. taking over our Temples & mutts (diversion of this money to Govt. coffers), caste- pride, Language -pride etc. (A true Dharmic person should try to preserve the Universal truths of our sages in all language traditions like : Sanskrit, Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, Hindi etc). Due to these extraordinary situation of hostage, please support Hindu institutions and organizations financially or with your volunteer service if you can and encourage others to do so.
this channel should have atleast 100 million subscribers if not 100 crore .
Highly recommended. Thoroughly civil and frank discussion that remains intellectually coherent.
Its not enough to thank rajiv, we must all stand together and try to influence as many people as possible. We need to each one of us increase our knowledge and talk to people. Its obvious that Christianity is like a cancer that spreads through the evil work of missionaries and islam spreads through the evil sword whereas all Hindus can do is appeal to people's hearts and hope that logic has not evaded them completely.
Exactly!
Must say it was a very good discussion.. Mr Tully brought out some very needed nuance, on behalf of Christianity. Makes the entire discourse and arguments made by Mr. Malhotra richer.
Rajiv checkmating Mark at each turn. Brilliant!
Rajiv Malhotra Ji doing the yeoman service to Hindus singlehandedly not done sofar by battery of Gurus. He is precious to every Hindu who live by Tan&Man (ManasahVacha) as Dharmic 👏
Here he literally checkmated Tully completely, I do believe this Mark Tully not just bbc journo but a foot soldier of missionaries in guiding Conversion mafias in India
I guess, one reason, these religions are history-centered, is, they came up in kaliyuga. they have a beginning. and so, I think, they will have an end. then they will be history... everything which is connected to pure love and true knowledge will remain, as it always does. one has to know natures law, to follow them. nature is divine and Her laws have no history, just absolut power. one can feel these laws, because one is part of nature. these kaliyugareligions don`t have anything to do with nature, it seems to me. I am glad, true knowledge is comming up so strongly. europe has to find its own roots and way too. . especially germany is "historybound"... this "history" was written by their conquerer. this "history" became a religion, inclusive inquisition. if one does not believe or have doubts, one has to go to jail... like in middleage, when the christian church turtured nonbelievers or people who are different. this time of inquisition has to come to an end. and it will. truth is eternal. as LOVE IS
Angelika van Coevenhoven yo are right, but truth must fight with evil.
yes
fighting with evil is speaking the truth. the only leg, which remains for the bull dharma in kaliyuga, is truthfullness. yes, we will fight and never give up! there is no other way.
you are right, i agree.
just want to correct you on the philosophy, It is not a bull.....it is the cow named Kamadhenu....you can read more about it from many sources online. It is nice to know somebody not indigenous to the land is making effort to understand philosophies from Sanatana dharma
Rajiv Malhotra's contibution is in terms of the concept of "history centrism" to help Hindus understand Christianity. His concept of "Truth Claim" will prove to be a great tool to blunt the exclusivism and the consequent discord and violence the semetic religions continue to heap on the peace loving and tolerant East.
Loreto Sealdah in Kolkata under Sister Cyril was a mass conversion enterprise. They have created an ARMY of converters by engaging the students themselves in this activity. I have personally experienced and seen their activities first-hand under the guise of "social work". We were taken from Loreto House to see the "great" work they were doing. the students used to go every thursday (supposedly a school holiday) for compulsory social service to surrounding villages. I guess that's when they had converted all the local people on the sealdah station platform (the school is strategically placed close to a HUGE train station). Each class has sections up to G as far as I can remember, full of this student army helping the nuns convert. The idea was to import the idea into Loreto House (our school). I dont know how far that plan went because this was decades ago. So I'm sorry, I cant take a charitable view of these nuns. I pretty much think they belong in jail for employing child labor, apart from many other things. I also think that they have created a whole generation of opportunistic people who have a feeling of entitlement for being Christian. What they have NOT done is social service. I was sickened to the bone when that Sister Cyril was given some big national honor, I think Padmashree or something. Shows how these honors belong in the garbage.
a very enriching conversation to listen to.
A great engaging discussion between two intellectuals in a very decent environment.
Secularist, if it means anti-religious, in India, it applies only against Hinduism. The seculars have no problem of any other religions other than Hinduism. An irrational and strange position to take!
If you listen carefully, everything that Mark Tully thinks we should have conversations about, every single point is about how Christianity can take things from Hinduism to enrich itself. But how is it respectful to take things from another while not telling the other that your most important belief is that all his Gods are false? Only the Christian god and Jesus are true. Krishna, Shiva, Devi and everyone else you believe in are false according to Mark. So how is he respecting us? I do believe he is trying, but his religion, one he believes it is karma to follow and for some reason, not change, even when faced with this wealth of information, doesnt allow it. I wish Mark would answer this question.
Tully is a perfect example of a modern liberal Christian, confused and wholly.
1:26:07
That something happened when Indira Gandhi was in power
that Indira got back in power after emergency with the help of Indian COMMUNISTS.
COMMUNIST didn't demand for
rail ministry,
Coal ministry,
Home ministry,
Telecommunication ministry,
Other financial lucrative ministerial posts in government.
Instead they demanded for post of
Chancellor and
Vice chancellor
of educational institutions,
Education ministry,
Various posts in history departments,
Like
NCERT
State education boards
ICHR.
These COMMUNIST in various posts in education sector promoted the scholarly works of bias and dogmatic psuedo-scholars suffering from inferiority complex like
Mohammad Habib,
Irfan habib,
Satish Chandra,
Romila Thapar,etc.
And ignored,rejected,sidelined
Authentic,Generous and hard working scholar like
Ramesh chandra majumdar
Sitaram goel
Dharmpal
Jadunath sarkar
And many more.
Hence we have 2 to 3 generation of dehinduised Indians thanks to COMMUNISTS.
You can check NCERT books to check this.
Mark is generally a very likeable and pleasant person. That is what I meant. I don't think Mark is one of those trying to appropriate Hindu concepts into Christianity. He clearly admits he is fascinated with the concept of unity consciousness in Hinduism.
RM is learned and articulate. V good
Very good dialogue. Hope to see many more such interactions
honest enemies are better than dis-honest friends or companions
clearly mark Tully is evasive & ill informed . RM is direct & spot on.
For Mark Tully: Well known are incursions by British pirates, privateers or armed explorers,provided they were operating with the approval of their government.The need for a unilateral transfer of funds to britain was a constant factor and in fact increased progressively over time.The burden of the east India co. london establishment and of dividends to its shareholders was replaced after 1858 by "The cost of the Secretary of States India Office",while the India debt in england,already considerable thanks to the co. military adventures.All such adventures meant heavier outlay on the army mainly at a cost to the Indian exchequer.eg: In Egypt 1882 by gladstone,Sudan 1885-86/96 againts the Mahdi movement,China againts the Boxers in 1900.Military cost under curzon to the Indian govt by 1904-05 was 51.9% of indias budget(HOME charges).In a nut shell India was paying for englands invasions of other countries.An Indian army pvt received 9 Rupees amonth while his british counterpart received 24 Rupees plus a number of allowances.These "HOME CHARGES" also included pensions for british India officers,military and other stores purchased in england,cost of army training,cost of transport and campaigns outside India but charged on Indian finances.Breakup of Home charges 1901-02 3 million BP army expenses,4.3 million BP stores purchase,1.3 million BP pensions,6.4 million BP Railway guranteed interest others for a total of 17.3 million BP.
The British Monarchy had an easy way of earning money by granting monopoly to a company under the garb of developing national industry. One such company was the East India Company which had been granted a royal charter by Queen Elizabeth I, for a period of 15 years. This charter gave the company a monopoly to trade with all countries east of the Cape of Good Hope and the west of Straits of Magellan.
Interestingly, the British East India Company,which even had Elizabeth I as one of its shareholders was the first limited liability company in the world. The modern corporation is a child of the East India Company.
In fact the history of the company answers some of the great questions faced by businessmen all the time - how to raise capital, build trust with customers as well suppliers, motivate employees enough and keep shareholders happy once money has been raised from them.
FYI nothing was "GIVEN" to India.The Indian taxpayer paid for it all and how.
@SanjayVaidya Liked the way you laid out in a nutshell commerce and funds for miltary action by 'The Empire'. Would you care to point to sources which explain this in a more expansive form? Am trying to read up on the Crown's policies regarding funding their military adventures not just in India but the other colonies as well.
@prasadgc What I sensed is that "Mark Tully" was on a defensive mode. Maybe, by presenting the "purvapaksha" so articulately in this book RM caught him on the back-foot.
1:03:28 - that was a kick in the butt by Rajiv- STOP COVERSION efforts and most problems will be solved.
Rajiv Malhotra needs a cogent reply for all the issues he raises from the various religious leaders in the West. While India tries to solve her internal problems, she should make sure there are no religious conversions in India by foreign organizations. Since there is not one Islam and therefore one responsible spokesperson, and same is the case with Christianity,
there will be no responsible and universally agreed response to Malhotra's pertinent questions.
THE BASIC QUESTION FOR INDIA IS: SHOULD HINDUISM BE TOLERANT OR BE RESPECTFUL OF OTHER RELIGIONS THAT ARE INTOLERANT? I THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE BECAUSE IT IS
GRADUAL SUICIDE.
IF ONE CARES FOR ONE'S CULTURE, STUDY THE WORKS OF MALHOTRA AND DONATE GENEROUSLY TO HIS INFINITY FOUNDATION TO PRESERVE OUR GLORIOUS CULTURE. CHINA IS DOING IT WITH CONFUCIANISM!
Rao Nanduri
Very well said Rao garu! I'd like to help Rajiv, especially with doing interviews (which is my forte) and such; will reach out to him pretty soon.
I like Mark Truly. What a wonderful and decent man. He didn't lose his cool even once and even acknowledged his admiration the unity consciousness of Hinduism. Hats off Sir!
Just last year some one tried to convert me to Christianity with an argument that is the only way, and just doing good things and having good behavior don't count. Once I asked him whether Gandhi will go to hell or heaven it was all slippery slope for him. I, however, got a free lunch.
Up to 1hr 11 mins discussions Mark cannot agree on "history centrism & exclusivity" of Christianity, pointing Hindus do have "history centrism" by way of different mutts each claim their way is the best. "Truth Claim" also Mark says same as Hindus.
If all are same (like Hindu Dharma) why then Christianity and Islam are the most 2 top religions destroyed the native culture/tribes of origination (Europe / Arab) and fiercely fought themselves. Even though all religions speaks of basics, the interpretation leads to this destruction?
Santana Dharma never had this self or foreign destruction. India still holds most native tribes as well preserves different cultural habits across nation.
Looking closely on theology, can this be approximated!!??
Judaism ~ Advaita (ultimately become one with Gid)
Christianity ~ Vishishtadvaita (will be close to God but separate)
Islam ~ Dwaita (always in separation with God)
Can you please give some details on this issue? I would like to know as I live in India.
If Mark Tully really believes Mahatma Gandhi's statement that the religion you are born in is the best for you, why hasn't he not criticized Xian organisations whose primary motivation is to convert 'pagans' to Christianity.
Brilliant discussion !
I really respect both of you
This Man is just genius .. and Mark ducks out on questions of conversions and church's policy towards others.. brilliant Malhotra
Christianity got into a real mess when it tried to marry Christianity with the Greek philosophy. Augustine was the one who came up with the concept of the Original Sin and made Christianity into a body centric theology. Christ resurrected physically with all wounds of crucifixion restored to him. This concept is also applied to all believers on the Judgement Day when they will resurrect PHYSICALLY like Christ..The Greek philosophy like Hinduism believe the true Self of man is soul, atman and not physical body.Christianity got its knickers into a twist of Trinity which theologians are still debating after almost 1800 years!
Great video. Everytime Mr Rajiv Malhotra would point out something, Mr Mark Tully would go on and say... O I dont know, to me it means this or that. I think anytime in a general discussion if you get personal, it means that you have lost it. Because if Mark Tully says, if he believes in something, then you really cant argue with that. But it makes me wonder, how narrow minded his beliefs are, esp when Rajiv talks about putting Jesus in a Mandir and a Hindu murti in a Church.
Mark Tully was so truly open and morally honest, in speaking the reality of whatever he thinks or comprehends. He never did any despicable show of false generalisations and "love all. poison and medicine,.. rose and dhatura flower,.. fire and water,.. love and rape,,,donation and theft/plunder.. all are same". type of lowly/blind/criminally foolish cliches/sloganneering/statements. he was so honest. And only the honest can attain advancement.
Mr. Malhotra's conclusions about Islam (and Abrahamic religions in general) are correct, however Islam does believe in the virgin birth of Jesus.
The audio wasn’t clear in my phone. Looks like an interesting conversation.
Mark Tully is also brilliant.
Some great people have said all religions are true. That concept to me is a oxymoron. From the Bible - we are all sinners, we can’t be judges I find attractive. From Gita I have learned quite many life lessons. I am an agnostic, every organised religions have limitations and faults. Some faith we are taught is completely false.
Anyway good discussion by the two.
Ethics in religion should move with time, 2018 can’t be in conformity with what was relevant many centuries ago.
Rather fantastic that a journalist like Mark Tully doesn't know about the inducements and lies that fuel conversion to his day. Jai BBC...how informed even its former rep in India is! Vamanan
one of best discussion between east and west..
Tully is not a bad guy i think...what can he do when his logical mind is being forced to submit to the requirements of his religious faith. He gets personal so often....which is not Christianity, it is Hinduism, but Tully is to be admired too...not many Christians get into dialogue because they are afraid that they wont be able to defend their actions or the actions of their religious leaders. They usually condemn before they speak for fear that they will understand the separate viewpoint.
Why Mark Tully think the idea of love is exclusive to christianity???the love is basic for Krishna followers etc
Can someone please write down the authors and books Malhotra ji mentioned, I picked up Raimon Pannikar, he mentioned many!
Its a wonderfull
Great !
Cosmos Quest means East West Interaction.Search origins
Unity in diversity-Cosmology vedas Interlinks
The subject of discussion leads to Science in Philosophy.-see books
Vidyardhi Nanduri
I like Mark too, but theres nothing great about not losing your cool when all you do is avoid issues because your religion does not equip you to face up to them.
Just a fact, Virgin Birth of Jesus is required article of fait in Islam too. Islam has a problem with Jesus being a Divine entity. wasnt expecting Rajiv Malhotra to not to know such a basic fact of Islam.
My comment is not meant for any argument.
Stirred and shaken man, Mark Tully!!
Christianity is authenticated by history, says Mark Tully. (as opposed, perhaps, to the highly mythlogy-oriented Hinduism). This shows that despite all his soft-talk and attitude, our dear Tully's religious sensibility shrinks from much of Hinduism. Vamanan
Sir you seem to make Mr. Mark Tally uncomfortable in his seat...
The Christian concept of Love is that 'I will f**** u, and b****** u, see how much I love you!' Vamanan
Rajiv Ji, i think its all about power play. Hinduism does not preach and go around trying to convert. That is not the motive.for hindus. . We will reduce in numbers because we have other religions whose main aim is to grow in numbers and that gives them power.
We need to internalize our faith first..As hindus We need to learn to stay rooted in our religion. So we need to teach our own people from the time they are born. It is the responsibility of every mother to instill the religiois faith to her children. More hinduism classes for school going children and religious classes at Ashtam. Provide incentives at the Asram which will motivate hindus to attend religious classes.
Whether they respect our religion or we respect their religion- greed for power will always be there.
We need to invest our energy to get the right gurus to guide us slowly to moksha.. in this way we will be very resilient and will not fall prey to predators.
Mark was BBC correspondent in India for god knows how many years. Over 20 I think. That he spoke really crap Hindi said it all for me. No attempt at all to open himself to learning an indoeuropean language though I know many Europeans who speak fluent Chinese and Japanese.
being spiritual is personal and one has to feel the divine for himself so every guru feels differently, so i feel infact authenticating a spiritual claim is silly and foolish simply because no one can have same experiences as others did.
aggressive conversion using allurements & other forms of disguised coercion is a sin . it should be taken care of in India through adequate regulation . esp the foreign funding part of it .
Have to disagree with the claim that Hindu Gurus are not authenticated. Here is why:
Hindu Guru is basing his teaching based upon Veda, which makes it authentic. Just wanted to clarify about this point.
What I am confused is How Jesus becomes the son of God? Mother Mary was an ordinary human being and progeny of Adam and Eve. How could Jesus become the son of God when he is born out of Mother Mary? Who is a progeny of Adam and Eve?
Ravendra T
In Abrahamic religions Eve and consequently all women do not have the same status as Adam and consequently all men. Eve was created from rib of Adam. All women are therefore like objects, or somewhere between a man and an object. The word female means "inferior male". God is worshipped as Holy Father, never as a Holy Mother. Woman have a womb in which the seed of man grows in to a child. A woman is not contributing half the DNA from the egg or ovum part of the embryo in Abrahamic religions.
History centrism ...
From 7.30 discussion goes interesting...
Spoke for more than one and half hours about Hindu Christian interactions. But not once mentioned about Goan Inquisition !
@ 57 Mark Tully was almost speechless !!!
There whole idea was to divide and rule India. So they cooked up Aryan invasion theory and tried to divide India and create conflict.
Now the new archeological evidence show otherwise and there was not evidence.
Actually it was Anglo-Saxon invasion that drove Iris and native to the English country side and called then selves Anglo and Englishman. They also made a English language official and old English was just German language.
Now British would explain India history in similar way.
Mark Tully was extremely uncomfortable with the word "historicity"' and he was trying to mimic Rajivji's American pronunciation.
They have helped pushing all these good in this world to extinction.
Mark Tully lost his ground shown his double standards like a typical Britisher....He knows truth but not accepting openly..
Original sin is identification of the Self with the mind body instead of the soul
Anyone (including Mark Tully) who is ignorant of historical (autheticated) basis of Indian culture/religion/ancient history shoudl read works of Subhash Kak, Nilesh Oak, Dharampal, Sarasvati research by Kalyanaraman. Check Amazon or Flipcart or Junglee.com
Mark Tully is a liberal Christian who does not believe in the tenets of Christianity or the dominant Orthodox Church; which means that he is beating about the bush most of the time. Rajivji as usual is superb; he know more about Christianity than Mark Tully.
@hashimi habibalim....He never contested the claim about Jesus being born to a virgin.......He pointed out the inherent conflict that if Christians's claims must be true(JESUS SON OF GOD),then Islam's philosophy should be wrong i.e Islam doesn consider Jesus as SON OF GOD.it just considers him as a prophet....and vice versa....
If A believes that religion A is the salvation then it is incumbent duty to persuade others to his point of view. You just can't make rules about it accept that the process is peaceful. Adi Shankar did persuade Mandan Mishra that Hindu dharma is true while Buddha dhamma is not, and Mandan MIshra became disciple Adi Shankar. If Adi Shankar is allowed this why not others. Fundamental dilemma Hindus have is if they do convert a Christian or a Muslim to Hindu which jati/caste he will be assigned. Hindu should abolish jati/caste system, and they may have superior system to attract others. If they don't, and subscribe to anuloma-pratiloma principle from Manu Smriti they will be on the path of declining fraction of demography.
As usual , judeo-christian lineage do make you dogmatic .
I know the purpose of this discussion was to promote Rajiv Malhotra's book, but I felt that he (RM) was not being a good listener at all. He would constantly talk over Mark Tully, interrupt him when he was about to make a point, and wait for him to finish a sentence so he could have his say, without actually listening to what Mark was saying. That's not a good way to achieve mutual respect. Let the other person have his say in full, and listen to him!
12:50 :D
What about Hindu contradictions?
Like?
mark loves Congress it seems
If Hinduism is the real religion with a real God then you should not be afraid of conversions. Everyone want to know who is the real God. That quest will continue for thinking people.
Ha, smart alec, conversions matter for land...for property. Christianity is not a religion, it is a political system, it converts and in the name of tithings and doing good to the church, takes back the money and also that way the entire land becomes christian. Which is a fake religion. AND DEFINITELY NOT A RELIGION FOR THINKING PEOPLE. ALSO, IT HAS NOT JOY, JUST SUFFERING AND SUFFERING. PAIN AND DEATH. LOOK AT ITS CELEBRATIONS, WHICH WERE PASTED ON PAGAN FESTIVALS---THAT IS HOW IT SPREAD, BY FORCE. BY MAKING Christianity A STATE RELIGION SO OTHERS WERE NOT ALLOW TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION. all manipulation.
If you can understand the Language , please watch "Heavenly Feast" on youtube. Yo see a lot of people across different religions are getting healed
Thomas Alexander and you must be suggesting that one religion is better than the other?????
If Christianity is the real religion with a real God then why should they do conversions? Cant "real Christian God" attract people into Christianity without bribing and making untrue allegations against other regions?
It's breaking the culture. And we not want to break our culture. We have our own civilisation just like the Chinese have their own. I have no problem with Indian Christians who has it's allegiance to India and not Europe. India has a rich civilisation for over 5000 years and people should respect that.
Mary was progeny of Adam and Eve. Jesus got half of his DNA from his sinner mother Mary. Surprised Rajiv couldn't dissect it.
@tomtomttom he may not have discussed that here but he also criticizes arya samaj and iscon for their monotheistic modificaiton.
I thought it was just the opposite.
i wanted to press the thumbs down, pressed the other by mistake, this person is obviously blindly faithful and refusing to see reason or logic.
aggressive conversion using allurements & other forms of disguised coercion is a sin . it should be taken care of in India through adequate regulation . esp the foreign funding part of it.