*You have to be born of the Spirit, born of God to become a child of God (1 Peter 1,3) (1 Peter 1,23) (1 John 2,29) (1 John 3:9) (1 John 4,7) (1 John 5,1) (1 John 5,4) (John 1,13) (John 3,3) (John 3,5) (John 3,6) (John 3,7) (Catechism of the Catholic Church 526)*
@Steubenville Conferences --- I appreciate this testimony and how you referenced your message against the scriptures. I do have a nagging theological question relating to the Trinitarian mystery. If it is true that the Holy Ghost from the Father AND the Son, and Jesus Christ is the Incarnated Son, why must He have the Spirit of the LORD be upon Him in order for Him to receive, or more fully realize, the gifts necessary to execute His earthly objectives? I guess this could be a reference to the level to which He emptied himself (Philippians). Though He was still 100% Divine & 100% Human, might the conjunctional point of the body and soul still require a purely spiritual connection to more fully and positively realize our human state? The conditions of His incarnation (i.e., human limitation/nature) may explain the reason for this type of interaction with the Holy Ghost. And maybe God's ability to exist outside of time and space plays into this - meaning He was always present and able to participate in the spiration of the Holy Spirit. A lot of gymnastics here. I would appreciate any insights you might have.
The idea that Jesus had to be "baptized with the Holy Spirit" is a heresy, as Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity and has always been completely united with the Father and the Spirit. John the Baptist was baptizing with water for forgiveness of sins, not to impart the Holy Spirit. Jesus has no sin. The Holy Spirit appeared as a dove, and the Father's voice came from Heaven. This is the Holy Trinity. Jesus is united fully with the Father and the Spirit from all eternity. The Catholic receives the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism. The sacrament of Confirmation strengthens the gifts of the Holy Spirit already present in the soul. This "Catholic Charismatic" stuff is an oxymoron. Stay clear.
@@greyhoundmama2062 Since posing this question, I have gone down many roads trying to get a handle on the CCR. Part of my motivation was in figuring out how to bring some protestant family members over to the one true faith. In any case, I agree wholeheartedly with what you have stated. I had gone to a retreat and, unbeknownst to me, sessions of laity praying over other laity through the laying on of hands and a consecration to the Holy Spirit (really an act to elicit a "slain in the spirit" experience) took place. It was definitely scandalous to me and extremely disconcerting. I took this to our priest in the hope he could help me sort out my confusion. We talked - long story, short, he shut it down (thankfully). I get it. These brothers and sisters with whom every Sunday+ I gratefully pray, love our Lord so much that they are looking for ways to draw closer and serve Him better. I truly appreciate this desire. However, to me, the origin of this self-aggrandizing movement contains evidence of being man-made and as you said, heretical. It seems the Saints are of a similar mind, at least from my investigation. That said, I do not discount, nor does our faith, the ability of our Lord to give such gifts to whomever, whenever, as He decides for the benefit of His Church. It just doesn't bear out that a movement is required for such gifts to be disseminated.
*You have to be born of the Spirit, born of God to become a child of God (1 Peter 1,3) (1 Peter 1,23) (1 John 2,29) (1 John 3:9) (1 John 4,7) (1 John 5,1) (1 John 5,4) (John 1,13) (John 3,3) (John 3,5) (John 3,6) (John 3,7) (Catechism of the Catholic Church 526)*
@Steubenville Conferences --- I appreciate this testimony and how you referenced your message against the scriptures. I do have a nagging theological question relating to the Trinitarian mystery. If it is true that the Holy Ghost from the Father AND the Son, and Jesus Christ is the Incarnated Son, why must He have the Spirit of the LORD be upon Him in order for Him to receive, or more fully realize, the gifts necessary to execute His earthly objectives?
I guess this could be a reference to the level to which He emptied himself (Philippians). Though He was still 100% Divine & 100% Human, might the conjunctional point of the body and soul still require a purely spiritual connection to more fully and positively realize our human state? The conditions of His incarnation (i.e., human limitation/nature) may explain the reason for this type of interaction with the Holy Ghost. And maybe God's ability to exist outside of time and space plays into this - meaning He was always present and able to participate in the spiration of the Holy Spirit.
A lot of gymnastics here. I would appreciate any insights you might have.
The idea that Jesus had to be "baptized with the Holy Spirit" is a heresy, as Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity and has always been completely united with the Father and the Spirit. John the Baptist was baptizing with water for forgiveness of sins, not to impart the Holy Spirit. Jesus has no sin. The Holy Spirit appeared as a dove, and the Father's voice came from Heaven. This is the Holy Trinity. Jesus is united fully with the Father and the Spirit from all eternity. The Catholic receives the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism. The sacrament of Confirmation strengthens the gifts of the Holy Spirit already present in the soul. This "Catholic Charismatic" stuff is an oxymoron. Stay clear.
@@greyhoundmama2062 Since posing this question, I have gone down many roads trying to get a handle on the CCR. Part of my motivation was in figuring out how to bring some protestant family members over to the one true faith. In any case, I agree wholeheartedly with what you have stated. I had gone to a retreat and, unbeknownst to me, sessions of laity praying over other laity through the laying on of hands and a consecration to the Holy Spirit (really an act to elicit a "slain in the spirit" experience) took place. It was definitely scandalous to me and extremely disconcerting. I took this to our priest in the hope he could help me sort out my confusion. We talked - long story, short, he shut it down (thankfully). I get it. These brothers and sisters with whom every Sunday+ I gratefully pray, love our Lord so much that they are looking for ways to draw closer and serve Him better. I truly appreciate this desire. However, to me, the origin of this self-aggrandizing movement contains evidence of being man-made and as you said, heretical. It seems the Saints are of a similar mind, at least from my investigation. That said, I do not discount, nor does our faith, the ability of our Lord to give such gifts to whomever, whenever, as He decides for the benefit of His Church. It just doesn't bear out that a movement is required for such gifts to be disseminated.
Lukewarm