My guess is that there's something weird in the scene that's causing Lightwave to break - a floating point rounding error causing a DIV/0 or an overflow, a point with an out of range co-ordinate, etc. - which leads to some funky behaviour; on the Amiga it's making Lightwave stomp on memory it shouldn't be, and on 5.0 on PC it's causing a similar but different error, but on modern hardware with a modern version of LW the problem doesn't manifest. Exporting the scene in the old file format from the newer version might fix it (if such a thing is possible), but on the other hand it might be that the modern version is simply handling it more gracefully and it'll just export the broken bit again.
That it's doing it to both Amiga's and the emulators is weird enough, but would have just said the save file is corrupted in a novel way, except for how it's affecting the UI of LW. Can't recall seeing that happen without program locking up.
If the scene file is not at fault, maybe one of the objects are mildly corrupt? You could try loading each object in a new scene, one at a time and see if scrubbing causes more problems. If you find it, try loading the object in Modeler, unwelding all points, then merging them, then resave to a new filename. Shot in the dark but you never know.
Amber is enabled and double scandoubling? , well since its happening on all that other crap, ... hmm if you run lightwave from the same directory on all the same systems, like a network drive. your LW pref for display is borked?? or is this file corrupted.
My first thought was a physical memory corruption. But you say the problem is reproducible on other machines, so I would suspect some file corruption, or some piece of the project isn't Amiga Lightwave friendly (something exceeds a point limit, incompatible shaders/maps/plugins, etc). If replacing the files for the project doesn't squash the bug, then I would simplify the project as much as possible, then add one element at a time back to the project until the corruption returns.
1. just load a different scene or make a small scene from scratch and see if it does the same thing. if not, it's specific to that scene file. 2. don't remember but if there's a cleanup routine in PC lw, try running that and then re-saving the file and then opening that new file on the amiga. just re-save and open on amiga if there's no cleanup function. 3. try loading one lwo at a time and see if there's a specific one that causes that problem.
Corrupted file, and Lightwave (Amiga version) can not handle that error correctly... It's my guess anyway... weird bitflip... ---edit I don't know if it's possible or not, but can you save the project again on the Windows version and load it on the Amiga version? maybe that is impossible but if not check that out... that would be interesting-
Very strange, it almost looks like a memory error. It's been a really long time since I have owned an Amiga, so I can't remember what the memtest program was called, I'm sure you have one to run though.
(Amiga) LW 5.0 is 99% sure misinterpreting something, and then it's off to memory corruption land. The activation thingy is probably just LW 5.0 complaining about W11, install VMWare Workstation and create a Windows XP VM for LW 5.0, it will probably be a LOT happier with that. That both the "new" Win LW 5.0 and Win LW latest show no issues means it's probably in the Amiga LW 5.0 loader/parser, some edge condition that bites you once every 1000y. From a software developer perspective, not a common thing, but not unheard of either. Finding out WHAT is broken, now that is the bad part... you'd have to go about removing stuff until you figure what is bad. If you really want to go down that path, I'd suggest a binary search, ie delete half the stuff, save to new scene. Open new scene, if bug there it's in this half, if not it's in the other. Go back to original, delete the other half, save new scene, open new scene, if bug there, it's here alright. Repeat until you're down to 1 thing that is bugged.
I know this will sound stupid, but how much RAM do you have? Maybe there is a overflow with this specific scene and on win LW version you have gazillions of free RAM so it will not overflow. So try to pull the LW window down a bit so you can see the free RAM?
@@HoldandModify yes... But anyway lets not forget you display stuff so it may be the ChipRAM cap. But then again you using RTG on A3000 with its own VRAM... Interesting, try to use low resolution maybe, just to test it out.
@@HoldandModify one more idea, does your LW on A3000 show the free RAM (I dont remember)? If yes, then check it before the corruption and then after corruption and compare. I know the picture is corrupted but should be enough to see the number, I guess?
@@HoldandModify take 3, lol: dont forget to pull the LW window down a bit so you can see the desktop. It will be interesting to see if entire video RAM got corrupted or just the LW part.
Take a break and come back later, and while that's happening try and spend a little time figuring out what if anything happened, I'm guessing something happened, maybe updates, power outs, etc. poisoned program file with your project. Have/find another person who can wipe their amiga lightwave pgm load your personal program copy of lightwave and the project you saved. If they get the same error I'd think maybe your project corrupted your lightwave pgm somehow and now signals are getting hosed. (oops maybe first), if you can find this other Amiga with lightwave and use an older *archived* version of your project saved a month or so ago and run that first before wiping out the other person's lightwave pgm and see if your *older archived* project copy produces the dreaded error. (Not that any of these situations exist at this late date 🤷♂)
Once the PC opens it, try re-saving it under a new name. Load that in to the Amiga. My thought is the scene file is corrupt in some way.
My guess is that there's something weird in the scene that's causing Lightwave to break - a floating point rounding error causing a DIV/0 or an overflow, a point with an out of range co-ordinate, etc. - which leads to some funky behaviour; on the Amiga it's making Lightwave stomp on memory it shouldn't be, and on 5.0 on PC it's causing a similar but different error, but on modern hardware with a modern version of LW the problem doesn't manifest. Exporting the scene in the old file format from the newer version might fix it (if such a thing is possible), but on the other hand it might be that the modern version is simply handling it more gracefully and it'll just export the broken bit again.
Hmmm this is good info and sort of what my dumb tech brain was trying to think of. Thank you!
I remember there was two version of the software: regular and FP but i guess that is only for the calculations
@@simonebernacchia5724 The FP one is faster as it averages the more complex maths to it. Two processors is better than one. :)
That's one interesting bug you found there! FYI to the Lightwave peeps, Lightwave 2024 is on Black Friday sale for around 70% off!
I'm an old lightwave user as well as Alias wavefront on the old SGI's
That it's doing it to both Amiga's and the emulators is weird enough, but would have just said the save file is corrupted in a novel way, except for how it's affecting the UI of LW. Can't recall seeing that happen without program locking up.
If the scene file is not at fault, maybe one of the objects are mildly corrupt? You could try loading each object in a new scene, one at a time and see if scrubbing causes more problems. If you find it, try loading the object in Modeler, unwelding all points, then merging them, then resave to a new filename. Shot in the dark but you never know.
Good idea. I'm running out of things to test. Thank you.
Never seen that behavior. To be fair, I haven't used LW on the Amiga since 1994.
I hope it isn't bit rot on the NAS corrupting files.
Don't think so. The bit
rot was most likely from the ancient CD-R these came
from. Back when I copied them to the NAS.
Amber is enabled and double scandoubling? , well since its happening on all that other crap, ... hmm if you run lightwave from the same directory on all the same systems, like a network drive. your LW pref for display is borked?? or is this file corrupted.
Yeah I turned it off too. Same thing. THIS IS BREAKING MY MIND
My first thought was a physical memory corruption. But you say the problem is reproducible on other machines, so I would suspect some file corruption, or some piece of the project isn't Amiga Lightwave friendly (something exceeds a point limit, incompatible shaders/maps/plugins, etc). If replacing the files for the project doesn't squash the bug, then I would simplify the project as much as possible, then add one element at a time back to the project until the corruption returns.
Good list. More things to try . Thank you.
1. just load a different scene or make a small scene from scratch and see if it does the same thing. if not, it's specific to that scene file.
2. don't remember but if there's a cleanup routine in PC lw, try running that and then re-saving the file and then opening that new file on the amiga. just re-save and open on amiga if there's no cleanup function.
3. try loading one lwo at a time and see if there's a specific one that causes that problem.
Corrupted file, and Lightwave (Amiga version) can not handle that error correctly... It's my guess anyway... weird bitflip...
---edit
I don't know if it's possible or not, but can you save the project again on the Windows version and load it on the Amiga version? maybe that is impossible but if not check that out... that would be interesting-
I'll give that a try. This is whacko.
Very strange, it almost looks like a memory error. It's been a really long time since I have owned an Amiga, so I can't remember what the memtest program was called, I'm sure you have one to run though.
I have never encountered those issues. Every answer to your problem I can think of has already been written in the comments.
Looks like sw bug, maybe there is a LW sw update to let say v5.1?
There is not. Stay tuned. I may have figured something
Did you try this on an old 1084s monitor?
I did, but only virtually via emulation. I have a 1080. It is worth a shot just to see if this is some bizarre 31khz issue.
(Amiga) LW 5.0 is 99% sure misinterpreting something, and then it's off to memory corruption land. The activation thingy is probably just LW 5.0 complaining about W11, install VMWare Workstation and create a Windows XP VM for LW 5.0, it will probably be a LOT happier with that. That both the "new" Win LW 5.0 and Win LW latest show no issues means it's probably in the Amiga LW 5.0 loader/parser, some edge condition that bites you once every 1000y. From a software developer perspective, not a common thing, but not unheard of either.
Finding out WHAT is broken, now that is the bad part... you'd have to go about removing stuff until you figure what is bad. If you really want to go down that path, I'd suggest a binary search, ie delete half the stuff, save to new scene. Open new scene, if bug there it's in this half, if not it's in the other. Go back to original, delete the other half, save new scene, open new scene, if bug there, it's here alright. Repeat until you're down to 1 thing that is bugged.
Some one else said much the same and you both are making sense. Tedius, but needed steps to figure this out. Thank you.
I know this will sound stupid, but how much RAM do you have? Maybe there is a overflow with this specific scene and on win LW version you have gazillions of free RAM so it will not overflow.
So try to pull the LW window down a bit so you can see the free RAM?
The machines I tested on have 256mb. Ram is probably not the issue. :) I also have LWs stack size set quite high.
@@HoldandModify yes...
But anyway lets not forget you display stuff so it may be the ChipRAM cap.
But then again you using RTG on A3000 with its own VRAM...
Interesting, try to use low resolution maybe, just to test it out.
@@HoldandModify one more idea, does your LW on A3000 show the free RAM (I dont remember)? If yes, then check it before the corruption and then after corruption and compare. I know the picture is corrupted but should be enough to see the number, I guess?
@@HoldandModify take 3, lol: dont forget to pull the LW window down a bit so you can see the desktop. It will be interesting to see if entire video RAM got corrupted or just the LW part.
Are you running LW on a shared drive?
Only the content. Each Amiga runs its own local install.
Take a break and come back later, and while that's happening try and spend a little time figuring out what if anything happened, I'm guessing something happened, maybe updates, power outs, etc. poisoned program file with your project. Have/find another person who can wipe their amiga lightwave pgm load your personal program copy of lightwave and the project you saved. If they get the same error I'd think maybe your project corrupted your lightwave pgm somehow and now signals are getting hosed. (oops maybe first), if you can find this other Amiga with lightwave and use an older *archived* version of your project saved a month or so ago and run that first before wiping out the other person's lightwave pgm and see if your *older archived* project copy produces the dreaded error. (Not that any of these situations exist at this late date 🤷♂)
…mann, why i like ur videos so much…(Y)
Thank you! Glad I get some videos mostly done well! hehe.
*Emulators aren't PERFECT*
True but I tried it on multiple real Amigas too. Same weird issue.
@@HoldandModify Oh my...
wild guess... change time and date back 10 years ;)
haha. nah. funny though,
@@HoldandModify mmmmh, did you try? *g - i seriously meant system time, hehe
@ Well i will be releasing another video most likely Monday for ....reasons. ;)