Tories running out of time to fix their broken party
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- "I don't think they have years this time."
Compared to the Labour landslide in 1997 where Conservatives took years of scrambling to reunite, the party no longer has that flexibility.
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Honestly, people use the word Stalinist like gravy on a Sunday dinner. It has no meaning anymore.
A bit like ‘far-right’, ‘fascist’, ‘racist’ or ‘islamophobe’ - now all meaningless.
@@VaucluseVanguard Don't forget "transphobic" 😉
There was a point when local branches were not only forbidden from putting in motions critical of Starmer's attacks on the Left, but even forbidden from discussing the matter on pain of the expulsion of the branch committee. I sat through one such meeting: "Stalinist" describes it pretty well.
@@chrisbirmingham5132 why would local constituent branches be putting in motions critical of 'Starmers' attacks on the Left. Not only does this sound convoluted, it doesn't make sense.
They are not meaningless because the Tories and Brexits share those beliefs.
Worst government of my lifetime.
They've only been in power for two days
@@harrypainter7472 Boom Boom
Grow up Harry.
Why?
Give Starmer a chance...
Nobody in the media was talking about vote share when Johnson's Tories only increased the vote share by 1.2% in 2019 but gained about 40ish seats
What a wonderful time it is as we watch people like Michael crying over spilt milk
Deluded even in defeat. They see the entire world through a pinhole. Enjoy that pasture for the next DECADE.
Two decades.
Give it 5 years of Labour you will be begging for them back. 😉
@@chuck1804 Yes, I always beg for the Labour to come back, you're right.
Michael is exactly what has been wrong with the country for the last 14 years. Narrow minded and is party first country second.
Labour won, Tories badly defeated. Good enough for me.
Only 35 percent of the vote a very hollow victory sooner we adopt PR the better.
@@louisdisbury9759 That percentage has everything to do with the system - it doesn't reflect anything beyond the determination of most people to chuck the Tories out. PR - for all its advantages - has the major disadvantage of disempowering those who seek a definitive result; though that does depend on the system adopted, and how it's tweaked.
@@louisdisbury9759 still more than the 22% that the tories got....... LOL
Labour has a very fragile victory. Reform is number 2 in a lot of so called “red wall” seats.
@louisdisbury9759 some of the Labour left vote either did not vote or voted for Reform. Troubling, but if Starmer does well, he can increase the Labour vote next time.
The Tories should not have treated the people that voted them into power with complete and utter contempt ,in fact they treated the whole of the UK with complete and utter contempt and time will tell if this government will go down the same road .
Probably, but one thing at a time.
There is no reason to suppose that Labour will be as bad as this last shower of s-t.
No one could to be frank.
@@dianeshelton9592 It's hard to say. A Government which has been out of power for 14 years, facing a Civil Service which either Quiet Quit in 2019 or had become completely incompetent, as Dominic Cummings thought, and with a functionally bankrupt Treasury, once we take the different legal compensations into account, is going to be problematic.
Wait till you see the contempt that Streeting / Milburn will have for the NHS . You aint seen nothing yet ...
@@nolslifegren Nothing can be worse than Bojo Dec 2020. I was mixed up in that, and it's truly incredible it's taken over four years to get here.
I was hoping for #ZeroSeats but its a disaster nonetheless. We finally told them where they can stick their "if you don't vote for us, you'll end up with Labour" nonsense that they've used to gaslight us for decades.
Indeed we wanted to end up with Labour that’s why they were 20+ points ahead!
@@charlesabboud1613 Except less people turned out to vote for them than in both 2017 and 2019...
@@partlyawesome indeed but I think that’s because millions of Tory voters stayed at home. No-one forced them to abstain. Our system is like a football match, it’s the final score that matters.
@@charlesabboud1613 Well it sounds like your statement isn't correct then, "we" didn't vote for it, sounds like "we" voted for tory less. Don't you think that the government should reflect the actual votes?
Those who didn't turn up to vote knew that labour was going to win, I for one am celebrating 🎉@@partlyawesome
Great result for the British people. The Tories will tear themselves apart completely.
Cast youre mind back to when Brown left office and the irepairable damage Blair has done to the country Strarmers feeding out of the Same trough as you will find out
@@louisdisbury9759 If it did irreparable damage to the country, how come it only got worse over the last 14 years?
@@partlyawesome So well put.
Hope the Republican Party of Trump falls apart at Nov election
And Biden gets in? Trump is getting re-elected because Biden has destroyed the country. Wake up.
It's unfixable, not least because they're in denial about their responsibility for the defeat.
Not impressed by Michael....why is he on this show? Stalin!!!!
What has happened in the UK is a perfect example of how democracy is a self-correcting system. The Tories presided over a period of very high drama which they brought upon themselves. The UK populace had enough of this and elected a party and leader (Starmer) that are no-drama and committed to getting things done. I wish them well (I am American)!
Labour only achieved 32% of the vote share though. Landslides are built on shaky foundations...
I hope labour can rescue us but I feel like we are in for more of the same only without the amusing drama.
@@aidy6000 As long as the UK figures out how to structure their economy for life outside of the EU (they will), everything is going to be ok. Have faith!
Now the Labour MPs will be under scrutiny and relentless attack. Once the honeymoon period is over of course.
Devolve power to the regions and bring in media reform , even if the Murdoch press is whinging about it. They should have thought about that before phone hacking .
THINGS 🎵CAN ONLY🎶 GET BETTER !🎶 THINGS CAN 🎶ONLY 🎶GET BETTER !🎵😂😂😂
I agree with the point that an efficient campaign was what was needed.
There is no point in winning 25000, extra votes in a seat that you know you will win. Labour decided to concentrate their strategy in trying to change seats that they thought they could win. Even if they only won by a majority of 100 then that’s one extra sitting MP in government. Both the Lib Dem’s and Labour used that strategy.
Wow, Michael is such a misery guts. If England win he Euro, he'll find a way to despair over it.
Yes he is real miserygut😂
Nobody cares, they are stuffed.
I'm done listening to Crick, what a tool.
He is a useless apologist for the Putinites. Its a shame the things he enables dont harm him the way they harm others.
The Tory election campaign echoed Churchill afer WW11. If you vote labour, then you ll get Labour..... so question for the Tories: what have you done for the average working classs Briton ever ?
@francisravenscroft-dw6gi And the answer would be nothing whatsoever.
Does he know the definitions of stalinst
There unelectable now
Yes
Tories are now reform..the guy with no solutions has finished them.
"what went wrong with them..." the answer seems absolutely clear to everybody but the Tories themselves!!! the people on this show must ask themselves what they have done or not that contributed to the abysmal situation in which the Tories find themselves...
Answer is that tactical voting that's why voter share is lower ffs
Probably two disastrous far right appointments before they think about retuning to the Centre Right. Bit desperate from Crick, maybe needs to catch up on some sleep.
Of course she doesn’t care about vote share.
Our political system only recognises winners - it never asks what proportion of the electorate voted for them, it only asks who got the most seats? Well - it was Labour. Tories don't get a special pass because Labour got fewer votes than they did when they lost last time. If only three people turn up to vote and two of them vote Labour then Labour wins despite there being 50,000 other voters who didn't bother to vote. By not voting you automatically accept the majority decision of those that do vote, that has always been so.
He also doesn't seen to realise that now, more than ever, we do not live in a 2 party system, and when the vote is spread out like this across 4 or 5 parties, most seats will not be won by a massive % of the vote over the others. I think the days of 35%-45% overall vote share are long gone.
This idea we keep hearing from defeated Conservatives and their media commentators that Labour won with a low vote share.... it's just.. utterly meaningless in our FPTP system. And the excuse that the Tories lost because the right-leaning vote was split.... yeah, just as how the left-leaning vote has been split for DECADES.
If you want to look at vote share - consider this: If you look at all the general elections all the way back to 1979, you'll see that the conservative-leaning (centre-right and right wing) vote share only beat the liberal-leaning (centre-left and left wing) vote ONCE. 2015 was the ONE occasion in the past 45 years. Every other election, including those during the entire Thatcher era, the entire Cameron era, and the more recent wins for Teresa May and Boris Johnson... at each and every one of those elections, more people voted for liberal parties than for conservative ones.
LAbour got few votes as few people voted due to low voter turn out, when are people bleating on about this, its simple maths,
@@Monkeh99 You don’t see the political relevance of having a large majority with a low vote share? Where has this victim mentality come from all of a sudden?
Yes, that is the reality but people are discussing this because it shows a possible disparity in our political system that’s worth discussing. Shutting down the conversation on PR or vote share by saying “this is how it is” is ridiculous and vacuous./
Labour import most their voters
Regarless if the consevatives collasped labour won. Everyhting is about who your oppoent is at that time. Labour did what they need to win.
Wonder for how long Crick will be crying
Finally we have a Government for the people and not for themselves. A huge relief. Deluded Conservatives still unable to accept their many years of selfish Government has been an utter disaster.
Christ, Michael Crick is tedious.
That's why he works for the bbc.
Total nonsense. They have plenty of time. 5 yrs
But the electorate have longer memories than the last18 months.
Labour wins the UK election and the far right was rejected by the good people of France, I have so much more hope for the future than I did last week.
Why is it always a win for the Tories when the left vote is split then?
The pendulum swings from right to left... and left to right! 1 to 3 terms in office, as sure as eggs are eggs.
But the winners believe they are invincible
@@sallywilton2236 Don't they always.
It was a joint effort with other parties gathering tactical votes
So that last chunk in Scotland that was coloured white went Lib-Dem. Better than SNP, I suppose.
It's irrelevant, really - Scotland's MPs don't matter at Westminster (just as Wales' & Northern Ireland's MPs don't matter). Even the remaining Scottish Tory MPs were ignored 2010-2024. Westminster is about England's politics, which is what will dissolve the UK union.
@@Roberta80 Scottish MPs used to matter a lot. Half the Labour cabinet and shadow cabinet in the 90s and 2000 were Scottish. About half the Tory cabinet in the 80s and 90s were Jewish.
Was this man watching the same election?
Michael could not bring himself to vote Labour, well that was a surprise! And what mental carwheels he had to perform to justify his 'decision'.
.... And make sure you dont miss out on his classic ....' it's not a Labour win really'. Priceless!
absolutely abysmal party and I don’t hold out much hope for the current incumbents either what a sorry state of affairs
I think the use of the word stalinist is asinine but I do broadly agree with his point in spite of that lol
Tory party had all the aces in their hand before the election was called. Immigration rates falling, economy growing, six months to organise and the power to call the election when best for them. They not only chucked those all away. It was then unfair that Labour and the Lib Dem’s had a vision, strategy and plan on the day to get the best outcome for themselves! So sheer incompetence versus effective delivery of the resources at hand to deliver the change promised. As to Reform taking five seats from the Tories. We have six pro Palestinian candidates taking seats from Labour. So Labour will need to be effective in managing the House. No doubt contrarians like Michael (who makes a very good living from being so), will say that is authoritarian.
Stalinist? No, it was strategic voting and it worked. It knocked the Tories out and decimated their 'born to rule' candidates.
Also it depends who the tories elect to lead them
Country nearly extinct.. please lord save the NHs
5 years to sort it out I'd say
I'd say about 35 years.
Who is going to vote for them again? They stand for nothing.
I reckon that would be a fair shout for any bi-elections in that Reform can become the protest vote as well as having the money to throw into individual campaigns !!
The Labour win to me was like winning a football match 13 nil. The problem was that Labour didn't score but the Tories gave them 13 own goals.
regarding 'Building on the Green belt for new housing'. Erm...WHY ? You don't Need to build on the Green belt. London alone, is Full of Rotting Housing Estates. Send in the Bulldozers and start again. Cheaper, probably too, as Infrastructure is already there.
Tories wasn't at all desperate,at anytime was they,at the eleventh hour,they even called for Boris! Let's just remember,how the tories have behaved regarding,i haven't the time,there's that much,they've torn each other apart,for a start!
Can I burst the spot please? LOL
Vote share is relevant. In first past the post it is the number of seats. You could win EVERY seat by one vote, which will NOT be the largest number of votes if you add the other parties votes. If you are playing football it doesn't matter if you win by one goal or a hundred, those are the rules, the winner scores the most goals
Has Michael ever heard of Tactical voting, there was a lot of that going on, thats why the share of the vote is very misleading, without it labour would have ended up with 38-39 % and far fewer seats.
The Tories suffered from the attentions of the far right Press Barons who inflicted the self made disaster of Truss on the country, and the public school male MP mafia that ensured Truss got into the last two to fight their boy Sunak thinking she was easier to beat. They then engineered a win for Sunak whose goal was to get his spending to match his income , do what the Treasufy told him, and had no objectives that resolved the public's problems.
He was essentially useless at politics and ended standing in a cloudburst to announce an election far too early.
They missed the opportunity to say sorry for Boris and Truss, and at least make a start on doing what was needed And their MPs managed to miss people with real skills who wouldnt have been so foolish as to just walk away from Boris's key promises. They chose poorly, twice , even when other candidates pointed out both the ones they chose would destroy the party,
Now they have a thinner leadership field than ever before, better candidates have lost their seats, and its dominated by people like Braverman, Badenoch , and Patel - who made a bad job of even being a minister and wont appeal to either the racist or moderate sections of the potential vote, Their best bet would be to actually finally make a good choice among those in the wilderness and speedily find a way to find a seat for them.
Michael has zero idea does he?
Michael is on some very strong copium.
It clearly show who Farage really is
2 party politicians talking 2 party politics. Both equally out of touch with the comman man, imo. More concerned about the future of their parties than the future of the country. You get what you vote for. 👍
Maybe a thumbnail of Braverman would be more appropriate but didn’t pass Murdoch editorial I guess.
I've never voted Tory, but I hope they recover. I just hope they move to the middle ground and not align to the awful Reform party
They are beyond saving.
A new centre right party is required
Yes, it is awful to want any controls at all on immigration. The only solution is an infinite stream of foreigners in segregated communities competing for our housing and wages.
Unfortunately I think they will be going to the right to chase reform and are not interested in chasing labour
@Tom_murray89 not interested in returning to government then
@@user-le1tc1xc7m Yes it is "awful" to want the most basic common sense controls on immigration. In fact, if you believe in borders at all, you are basically endorsing the holocaust.
Didn't take long for the losers to start shouting Stalin!
Reform 💯
The Tories had one job - control our borders, and they failed abysmally. Blair might have opened the doors, but the Tories blew them right off their hinges. And despite the fact that the Tories were letting in up to 745,000 immigrants a year, Sunak still had the nerve to say that only he could be trusted on immigration, which is like a burglar saying that only he can be trusted to protect your house. The Conservatives deserve everything that they have coming to them.
and they had full control over this with the majority they had but did nothing.
Governments have more than one job. They failed at all of them.
Really? One job?
Setting the bar low for a functional government. Do all the problems of the nation disappear magically so long as the border is secure?
And now Labour will put up the Welcome sign, and put anyone who opposes it in jail
@@goldboy150
@goldboy150
In alancadwallender's view it seems. His comments are full of whining about the Tories being socialists and immigrants being allowed to live in houses
Sitting here listening to my ABBA cassette. I particularly like that one ‘The name of the game’. Nobody won a football match by scoring the most tries.
Im a Canadian. Tell me what any of this means to anyone outside the UK.
Wow that Michael guy is a weapon of the highest order. What an idiot. Is he there to just put any negative spin he can think of on things no matter how absurd. He is pretty much the only person so far with a negative comment and Timpson and seems to have no clue about his actual background.
This is why backgroundfilters are invented.
A wef plan and it will be continued by Labour.
Could we have a moratorium on using the word broken to describe anything with a problem? It’s become the most overused word and I’m sure it doesn’t attract any more clicks
Except in 2017 millions voted for Corbyn purely in the hopes of a 2nd referendum.
Sometimes, a thing is damaged beyond repair. It's easier to make a new one.
Reform.
We can only hope that the tories are finished and that decent, albeit misguided Tory voters, don’t fall for farage’s fibs.
We can only hope that Starmer doesn't drag us into a war with Russia while he's grovelling to the EU for approval. Oh wait, that's inevitable. Yeah, there's no hope.
Paging 1993 Canadian Conservatives! Elsie Wayne? Jean Charest?
start by realising you lied in. your promise keeping to the public
conservative party extinction.... doesn't that sound fabulous!!
I stopped listening when she used the word Stalinist.
Yes lol what a tool and the phrase "authoritarian centrist" as well. The left vote has always been split and this has aided the Tories, for the first time the votes on the right are split and the Tories cannot believe it. Whatever the result the desire to out the Tories was so strong that this should be a damming assessment of their record but they are incapable of self reflection and humility.
This fellow says "it's not a Labour win" and the lady says "there are reasons for the tories to be cheerful"- bunch of passive aggressive spiteful sore losers.
lol 😂 yes I think they will be back
Well our storied GOP Republican party is a D.E.A.D. Party walking!
Michael Crick is right - the Labour Party won, but I don't think it had much to do with the campaign: and the way it was conducted was a disgrace: authoritarianism run mad, riding rough-shod over constituency parties - Starmer needs to address this, because if he doesn't all wings of the party will turn on him. He'll think you don't sack a winning team - but that's just what he needs to do to Ellie Reeves, Morgan McSweeney, and David Evans - he also needs to run a rake through the regional offices and get the weeds out.
I know he won't - and that'll be as much a matter of time as anything else. But those who will have the time won't do it: so he must. Labour won't win again if it turns into a Stalinist, authoritarian, narrowly focussed party: its managerialism will sink it.
Labour always is and always was a Stalinist, authoritarian, narrowly focussed party. The Tories are the same. No wonder both are so disappointing.
Painful first 1 1/2 minutes, me me me!
Hello
Michael may be the single dumbest commentator of the week, which is truly a noteworthy achievement.
Will Keir Starmer answer any questions at Prime Minister's questions?
@KevTheImpaler I waited for 14 years to hear the Tories answer a question directly without digressing from the point. The Tories were masters at saying an awful lot of words that meant absolutely nothing.
Remember: There are two options. Red or Blue. 😉👏
Stalinist?! Get a grip please
god that Michael person was tedious to listen to - spoiled an otherwise interesting discussion
speak softly carry a big stick. If the Tories want to get elected next time round get closer to europe and speak softly on immigration but be ruthless.
Adrenal nonsense ala 1997 and 2001. Better to do a 2005 approach.
Oh look, another decaying Torysaur clutching at pearls about "Stalinism" after the reign of the idiocracy ends.
I wish these women would just get on with it, Jeeeez.
Badenough, Patel and Braverman - dream team - Charlton, Best and Law eat your heart out!
Doomed I tell you, doomed! Stop the tutu-twisting overdramatized bs headlines, please. It's why I dropped you in the first place.
How on earth did Britian turn hard left, while their neighbour France swung hard right??!!
its called rebalancing it has nothing to do with France or your black and white view.
Well that comment aged well...
France just elected a left wing coalition.
It hasn't swung Left, the Conservatives and the SNP lost the support or their voter base, allowing Labour in with a historic low in terms of votes secured.
@@wowmanhaha he cant have seen the news in last few hours
Corbyn wouldn't have got anywhere near the votes/vote-share he did in 2019 if Reform (then The Brexit Party) had fielded candidates in every constituency.
@ftumschk Jesus wept what's wrong with peoples memories in this country?
Farage stood his candidates down and helped ease the Tories back into power, in many ways you have Farage to thank for the last 5 years of wreckage the Tories have left behind them.
@@boota1979 Exactly. However - as we've seen - there's a fair chunk of Labour supporters who were/are strongly pro-Brexit, and many of them defected to the Tories in 2019, because they wanted to "get Brexit done". Had BP/Reform fielded more candidates, then Corbyn's Labour would have suffered even more losses.
@@ftumschk My comment you're replying to has vanished!
I did like their national service plan :) those kids need to learn to play with each other away from mobile phone build a tree hut or something :xD
Don't know many 18 year olds that where building tree houses even 30 years ago
@@pramenvy9827 I did a few in scouting :xD it worked, they had put the most incompatible kids together and learned to cooperate and do something positive.
The Times/Times Radio is not a right-wing conservative label anymore. It is more akin to the Left.
I don’t recall them advocating for the means of production being owned by the people. Funny sort of ‘left’.
They’re where they’ve always been, centrist and a bit right, as they want relatively deregulated markets, low taxes for the rich. And Murdoch likes to back the winner, because he doesn’t want press reform.
Nah as a whole it's still proudly complicit in child ab(se, just like the paper. Pure Right.
Sir Robert James Buckland KBE KC. Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice from 2019 to 2021. Secretary of State for Wales from July to October 2022 described Reform UK as "flag wavers". That really sums up quite succinctly what has gone wrong with the Tories. 'Flag wavers' is leftist language and not just leftist - far left.