I LOVE these videos... So much information. You make it make sense in a very concise way. These are the answers to all of the questions that i immagine a ton of people would ask if they were lucky enough to get the chance.
There are some interesting videos out there with actual valve movement vs theoretical movement using a spintron. It's super interesting to see how this varies with speed as nothing is actually solid & forces go up with the square of speed so minor changes can have radical effects. I know the big focus of spintron work is around durability which is all based around keeping everything in control rather than allowing valve float to occur. Intersting topic.
His knowledge is off the chart.. such a professional. Can't wait to have him build a motor for my 67 firebird convertible.. it's time to retire the NOS!!!!
Strictly speaking, a tube isn't stronger than a bar. It's stronger for a given weight. When you bend something, the outside edge stretches and the inside edge compresses. The center of the object doesn't change. So the center of a bar contributes nothing to bending resistance, but it does add weight. This is the reason I-beams are shaped the way they are. The center web is just there to space the upper and lower flanges. It works for torsion too, which is why you can gun-drill axles without destroying them. And thanks for the tip about fuel pumps. Now I know to spend money on a good bypass regulator and run a return line to feed the dual quads with the biggest pump I can afford.
Dude loves Jesus! He’s got my money I’ll tell you that! Love watching you Steve, thank you for everything God bless, ps would love to hear more on why the sniper kits don’t work right, working on a 62 metro mite with a big block turbo setup and was thinking about going that route until I heard negatives from you.
I've heard nothing but good things about the dominator setups, I was personally gonna use a sniper setup on an 84 GT Mustang 460 small block Ford that I'm restoring for my mom (shes had it since 88). I guess I'll pony up for the dominator.. I want it to be turn on and go for her without any drama
Awesome video. Could you please do a video on Long rods vs Short rods and Minimum compression height. That would be great. I really enjoy these videos they really clear up alot of things you think you understand. keep up the great work.
@10:08 in kart racing with the old Briggs and Stratton flathead in stock classes every completive engine used controlled valve float to loft the intake valve up at the head for maximum intake valve lift, the valve would just kiss the head. The art was getting the right spring to control the valve because the engine still needed to turn up to about 7,500 RPM. Camshaft profiles were controlled by the rules, as well as cylinder head quench and valve pocket measurements. The only areas to play with was a tiny amount of ramp profile, spring pressure, and valve to tappet clearance. Running a spring that didn't allow float reduced power in the neighborhood of 2.5 HP, that is enormous on an engine capable of 14 HP. Valve to tappet clearance was another place where just a few thousandths could gain or lose 1 HP, again that is enormous. A top engine builder once told me on these engines that "with heat the valve to tappet clearance only grows, think about that". What he meant was a pro built engine is set up with tappet to valve clearance which is not necessary for keeping clearance with heat. I immediately bought a camshaft profiling jig and learned exactly what he wanted me to learn, and that was just how much the cam profile changes with valve to tappet clearance changes. On some camshafts you could be found illegal in tech when they profile the cam all due to clearance. It's the main reason some competitors would have their engine refreshed after one race weekend. When HP is extremely close from one builder to the next nothing gets overlooked and you get to the point of tailoring the engine setup to the track and the driver. None of this has anything specifically to do with the video subject but the mention of accounting for valve float got me to reminiscing about the old days.
@3:23 tube is stronger because of surface area. Solid has more mass but less surface area. In the case of tubing it has an outer surface and an inner surface to resist bending, a solid rod only has an outer surface. The inner surface of a tube is more resistant to bending than the inner mass of the solid rod.
I'm addicted Steve. Loving the vids. Can you do a vid on deck height/rod length/pin height and whether having the piston in the hole is better for boost or not? Cheers!
Hi mate. Your fuel pump statement refers to injector engines. My 202ci six takes 6psi with a 40mm stromberg. Any more and the needle and seat malfunction, floods and sometimes catches fire. Love the content 👍
God bless you and your family bud. Thanks for the tip. I was thinking about running something like a 9/16 up to . 800 before the pushrod holes then dropping to 3/8 for the "moonbat" 10k rpm LS build.
Interesting stuff Steve..So I'm wondering if there will be a visible sign on the cam that loft is evident like an unswept section on the closing side.?..I'm enjoying the Tech thanks from OZ..
I have a 489 big block in my truck I was wondering about i have a hydraulic flat tapit cam but I have a set of texas speed aluminum heads with hydraulic roller spings would I have to change the cam to hydraulic roller cam
Hi thanks for the video I developing a 1930 engine in a Uk race and hill clime serise what’s the best material to make push rods from in you apinion Steve
Awesome vid, quick note on “tubes are stronger than solid” it’s not really true… but the middle of a solid rod does next to nothing for the strength of the rod… so it’s wasted weight. Lb for lb a tube is much stronger.
Well what kind of horsepower and RPM does it see? If tis just a modest build for trailering and longevity it should be ok I imagine. Obviously nobody should take my word for it, I'm not a Duramax expert, they may have had weak pushrods
@@benjamins9121 it was built for 1,200 horsepower and 4,000-4,500 rpm. It has SoCal Diesel beehive valve springs and titanium retainers. I plan to sled pull and drag race with it but I haven’t yet
quick question , in my Sbf 419 windor engine , the enginebuilder had put in a "rev kit" , like a spring on the the lifter it self.. good or bad in this matter?. // Roger , sweden
Tubes are not stronger than solid. However the material in the middle of the solid cylinder is so close to the neutral axis it does not add much strength for bending/buckling. Great video I learned a lot.
Michael per unit of weight yes. That was not the original premise.and you are right in this case where weight does matter a little and they need it to be hollow for oiling.
@@mback12000 Isn't there something about tube, being less likely to buckle under a shock load, than a solid?? I remember a teacher telling me twenty something years ago, that a hollow nail would be far more resistant to buckling, but I can't remember the why it was so. Any idea??
@@aaronnoyb I think the tube by being weaker (less stiff) is like hitting a spring in certain cases. But that is the very problem Steve was posting about. I'm happy to be corrected and learn something, if anyone else can address that please do.
Aaron Noyb no the solid will always win. It’s just as the wall of the cylinder gets thicker it’s basically behaving like a solid. In buckling the wall has to crumble and being solid is as thick a wall as you can get and there is no place for the material to go. In pure compression prior to buckling the solid is much stronger as the neutral axis does not matter like in bending or buckling.
Hey Steve just had a ls engine built has ls7 lifters and the front 4 cylinders so 1,2,3,4 all of the rockers arms are all of a sudden loose intake and exhaust. Do you think it collapsed the lifters or wiped out the cam? Or if it spun a cam bearing or something would that stop oiling to pump up the lifters in those front cylinders
While the cross section is symmetrical, the plane of bending is not central to the rod due to the offset loading placed by the rocker arm. Neutral axis doesn't apply here. :(
TheMrMused the ends of the pushrod are round so the can’t support a moment by definition. It’s loaded essentially in pure compression. Because it’s pure compression it’s just the buckling formula, and that takes into account the moment of inertia. Solid cylinder wins.
@@totalyep Back to the neutral axis for a moment .. because the rod is hollow, the neutral axis is moved from the center (since there is no material there) to the outside surface - or from a place of no mechanical advantage to a place of maximum advantage, making the rod stiffer. Compression and tension are on opposite sides due to bending forces - relative to the rod, not the compression load from from the valve springs. ...or at least that's about the extent to which my understanding goes.
The solid bar is weaker because the will twist or bend around the smaller fulcrum of the center (weak), if it’s not there it makes the larger diameter the fulcrum and inherently stronger.😎
Not as much as deflection. Bob Fox owner of spintron and Trend pushrods used a IHRA prostock engine on Spintron. He put a 16 ounce lead sleeve on the push rod. Spun it up and had zero effect on control. So I have been told. I was not there.
Question. If you increase the rocker ratio from 1.6 to 1.7 would that also make the weight of the pushrod less of a concern? Really enjoy the Steve Tech content.
Hey Steve, the reason a hollow tube is stronger than a solid cylinder (for the mass) is that when a torsional load (bending essentially) is applied the outer material around the diameter is what takes the most stress, and the least on the middle section. So basically a bigger diameter = more strength, and with the same mass a hollow tube will have a larger diameter than a solid cylinder.
Once the wall thickness reaches a certain point it is true that a tube is stronger than a cylinder FOR A GIVEN MASS of material. I’m absolute terms a cylinder is always stronger in bending vs a tube of the same OD.
You can have too much fuel pump. Ask the race week guys what happens with the return style fuel system with massive pumps when you switch back to pump gas. Guys were boiling their fuel this year on rocky mountain race week. But yes you can have too much pump as long as you can control everything or turn off pumps at times of reduced demand.
Church? hmm makes sense every gearhead needs all the help he can get and every hotrodder needs a garden angle as rowdy as he is. ever see a v 16 with nothing but a steering wheel a steering front axle a transaxle with some wheels tires and a seat attached i haven't done it but i want to, I'm crazy in need angles.
hmm strange... I live 20 minutes from Texas Speed HQ so I buy a lota stuff from em. Emailed em about the possibility of using a larger pushrod in my LQ4 and their response was "why"...... enough said. lol
lately, factory LS truck engines are bending pushrods within 10,000 miles from new. even saw one that actually broke in half something I've never heard of
No Disrespect. But you said, can't have to big of pushrod. Then you said, stronger push rod can lesson loft, That is Beneficial . Then you said you don't want to mess with that. Then you said, you can't have to big a pushrod. My pore little brain is smoking.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Please keep the Steve Tech coming….love’em
Another great video. I love details learned over years of actual experience
Thanks steve awesome video today. From Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
Awesome! Love people that actually know what the hell they are talking about! Keep em coming! Can’t wait for the cam and rest of valve train wizardry.
Thanks Steve. I love learning how little I knew and was wrong about even the simple things
I LOVE these videos... So much information. You make it make sense in a very concise way. These are the answers to all of the questions that i immagine a ton of people would ask if they were lucky enough to get the chance.
There are some interesting videos out there with actual valve movement vs theoretical movement using a spintron. It's super interesting to see how this varies with speed as nothing is actually solid & forces go up with the square of speed so minor changes can have radical effects. I know the big focus of spintron work is around durability which is all based around keeping everything in control rather than allowing valve float to occur. Intersting topic.
His knowledge is off the chart.. such a professional. Can't wait to have him build a motor for my 67 firebird convertible.. it's time to retire the NOS!!!!
✝️🇺🇸👍 good morning everyone hope yall are having a blessed day .
Thank you for taking the time and explaining it in a way people can pick up
Once again you rock. I would take a your build class.
Your guys have a great Boss
Love the sharing of your knowledge. Keep it going
Excellent video steve!!!
Strictly speaking, a tube isn't stronger than a bar. It's stronger for a given weight. When you bend something, the outside edge stretches and the inside edge compresses. The center of the object doesn't change. So the center of a bar contributes nothing to bending resistance, but it does add weight. This is the reason I-beams are shaped the way they are. The center web is just there to space the upper and lower flanges. It works for torsion too, which is why you can gun-drill axles without destroying them.
And thanks for the tip about fuel pumps. Now I know to spend money on a good bypass regulator and run a return line to feed the dual quads with the biggest pump I can afford.
The key part of this is “for a given weight”.
How funny. I was LITERALLY just watching another video about pushrod importance when this was posted!!
Another Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Dude loves Jesus! He’s got my money I’ll tell you that! Love watching you Steve, thank you for everything God bless, ps would love to hear more on why the sniper kits don’t work right, working on a 62 metro mite with a big block turbo setup and was thinking about going that route until I heard negatives from you.
I've heard nothing but good things about the dominator setups, I was personally gonna use a sniper setup on an 84 GT Mustang 460 small block Ford that I'm restoring for my mom (shes had it since 88). I guess I'll pony up for the dominator.. I want it to be turn on and go for her without any drama
Awesome video. Could you please do a video on Long rods vs Short rods and Minimum compression height. That would be great. I really enjoy these videos they really clear up alot of things you think you understand. keep up the great work.
YES YES YES !!! PLEASE do rod lengths and compression height and oil control of the ring
Fantastic explanations video as always
"You might have a concern with weight" why yes sir that was exactly my next thought. Lol
Another great video, thank you Steve.
Wonderfully explained as always
Thank you Steve your Right on time Thank you 💯🏁💯
@10:08 in kart racing with the old Briggs and Stratton flathead in stock classes every completive engine used controlled valve float to loft the intake valve up at the head for maximum intake valve lift, the valve would just kiss the head. The art was getting the right spring to control the valve because the engine still needed to turn up to about 7,500 RPM. Camshaft profiles were controlled by the rules, as well as cylinder head quench and valve pocket measurements. The only areas to play with was a tiny amount of ramp profile, spring pressure, and valve to tappet clearance. Running a spring that didn't allow float reduced power in the neighborhood of 2.5 HP, that is enormous on an engine capable of 14 HP. Valve to tappet clearance was another place where just a few thousandths could gain or lose 1 HP, again that is enormous. A top engine builder once told me on these engines that "with heat the valve to tappet clearance only grows, think about that". What he meant was a pro built engine is set up with tappet to valve clearance which is not necessary for keeping clearance with heat. I immediately bought a camshaft profiling jig and learned exactly what he wanted me to learn, and that was just how much the cam profile changes with valve to tappet clearance changes. On some camshafts you could be found illegal in tech when they profile the cam all due to clearance. It's the main reason some competitors would have their engine refreshed after one race weekend. When HP is extremely close from one builder to the next nothing gets overlooked and you get to the point of tailoring the engine setup to the track and the driver.
None of this has anything specifically to do with the video subject but the mention of accounting for valve float got me to reminiscing about the old days.
Love a Christian brother on RUclips into High Horsepower
@3:23 tube is stronger because of surface area. Solid has more mass but less surface area. In the case of tubing it has an outer surface and an inner surface to resist bending, a solid rod only has an outer surface. The inner surface of a tube is more resistant to bending than the inner mass of the solid rod.
thanks, steve, steve tech vids rock! appreciate your time & knowledge.
Great content thanks for sharing, very informative
Can we get a video on oil pump/oil pressure do and don't?
I'm addicted Steve. Loving the vids. Can you do a vid on deck height/rod length/pin height and whether having the piston in the hole is better for boost or not? Cheers!
Me too! That would be a great video.
@@elopez4225 me too. Ive often wondered whether using the bore wall and a thinner gasket would help sealing. Rather than relying on the gasket.
Very Short version - Tubes two surfaces working against each other to resist bending.
That’s what I figured when I thought about it, thanks for confirming
Hi mate. Your fuel pump statement refers to injector engines. My 202ci six takes 6psi with a 40mm stromberg. Any more and the needle and seat malfunction, floods and sometimes catches fire. Love the content 👍
Thanks for the reply. In the race category i run in, we don’t use regulators.
Thanks Steve 😊
God bless you and your family bud. Thanks for the tip.
I was thinking about running something like a 9/16 up to . 800 before the pushrod holes then dropping to 3/8 for the "moonbat" 10k rpm LS build.
God first Yes!!! If we put God first this 🌎 would be a better place
Interesting stuff Steve..So I'm wondering if there will be a visible sign on the cam that loft is evident like an unswept section on the closing side.?..I'm enjoying the Tech thanks from OZ..
I love it, thank you!! Great info!!
Great stuff! Thanks for taking the time to explain your views. Just didn’t seem as professional with a dressed up Steve 😆.
I have a 489 big block in my truck I was wondering about i have a hydraulic flat tapit cam but I have a set of texas speed aluminum heads with hydraulic roller spings would I have to change the cam to hydraulic roller cam
Hi thanks for the video I developing a 1930 engine in a Uk race and hill clime serise what’s the best material to make push rods from in you apinion Steve
Awesome vid, quick note on “tubes are stronger than solid” it’s not really true… but the middle of a solid rod does next to nothing for the strength of the rod… so it’s wasted weight. Lb for lb a tube is much stronger.
Thanks for the info.
Hi Steve , what is your best thought for quench in any flat top piston chevy or chrysler motor ? Thanx Mike
Fascinating, but it makes sense. I can imagine someone spending on a push rod upgrade and being pissed when they lose HP.
When I built my Duramax I went with the basic 3/8 Manton. I’ll definitely be upgrading those to the biggest Manton’s after seeing this
Well what kind of horsepower and RPM does it see? If tis just a modest build for trailering and longevity it should be ok I imagine. Obviously nobody should take my word for it, I'm not a Duramax expert, they may have had weak pushrods
@@benjamins9121 it was built for 1,200 horsepower and 4,000-4,500 rpm. It has SoCal Diesel beehive valve springs and titanium retainers. I plan to sled pull and drag race with it but I haven’t yet
Great stuff always thanks
Thanks Steve!
Hi Steve TexasSpeed 427STRoKeR I'm building Johnson Link Bar Lifters 30 to 35 thsds I came out with 7.4625 will 3/8 work in my PRC Heads ?
quick question , in my Sbf 419 windor engine , the enginebuilder had put in a "rev kit" , like a spring on the the lifter it self.. good or bad in this matter?. // Roger , sweden
No harm
Good info...thanks
I'm wondering if any of this applies to cams under 600 lift and RPM under 7,000 RPM?
I have a big pushrod and yeah it works awesome.
Tubes are not stronger than solid. However the material in the middle of the solid cylinder is so close to the neutral axis it does not add much strength for bending/buckling. Great video I learned a lot.
Yep. Tubes, in some cases, are stronger per unit of weight. But tubes are not stronger than the same OD and material solid rod. Engineering 101.
Michael per unit of weight yes. That was not the original premise.and you are right in this case where weight does matter a little and they need it to be hollow for oiling.
@@mback12000
Isn't there something about tube, being less likely to buckle under a shock load, than a solid??
I remember a teacher telling me twenty something years ago, that a hollow nail would be far more resistant to buckling, but I can't remember the why it was so. Any idea??
@@aaronnoyb I think the tube by being weaker (less stiff) is like hitting a spring in certain cases. But that is the very problem Steve was posting about. I'm happy to be corrected and learn something, if anyone else can address that please do.
Aaron Noyb no the solid will always win. It’s just as the wall of the cylinder gets thicker it’s basically behaving like a solid. In buckling the wall has to crumble and being solid is as thick a wall as you can get and there is no place for the material to go. In pure compression prior to buckling the solid is much stronger as the neutral axis does not matter like in bending or buckling.
Hey Steve just had a ls engine built has ls7 lifters and the front 4 cylinders so 1,2,3,4 all of the rockers arms are all of a sudden loose intake and exhaust. Do you think it collapsed the lifters or wiped out the cam? Or if it spun a cam bearing or something would that stop oiling to pump up the lifters in those front cylinders
Hollow vs. solid. Hollow has two planes vs. one for soild. One in compression, one in tension to resist bending or shearing.
No that’s not how it works. Google neutral axis beam bending. Solid is better in bending.
While the cross section is symmetrical, the plane of bending is not central to the rod due to the offset loading placed by the rocker arm. Neutral axis doesn't apply here. :(
TheMrMused the ends of the pushrod are round so the can’t support a moment by definition. It’s loaded essentially in pure compression. Because it’s pure compression it’s just the buckling formula, and that takes into account the moment of inertia. Solid cylinder wins.
@@totalyep
Back to the neutral axis for a moment .. because the rod is hollow, the neutral axis is moved from the center (since there is no material there) to the outside surface - or from a place of no mechanical advantage to a place of maximum advantage, making the rod stiffer. Compression and tension are on opposite sides due to bending forces - relative to the rod, not the compression load from from the valve springs. ...or at least that's about the extent to which my understanding goes.
TheMrMused no not right. I’m the buckling formula, the moment of inertia has to be calculated and that is wrt the neutral axis.
Great info!, I see a HEMI HEAD, are you going to develop a water version for max effort? THINK ITS TIME...
Is there a titanium pushrods
Steve what are your thoughts on inverse roller cams that Weird Harold B. designed or was that before your times. Or are they still in use?
I just bought a set of Manton push rods for my 7.3 Godzilla.
The solid bar is weaker because the will twist or bend around the smaller fulcrum of the center (weak), if it’s not there it makes the larger diameter the fulcrum and inherently stronger.😎
Hello Steve, great video as usual, but I disagree with pushrod weight. Inertia is bigger as weight increases and it affects moving parts on high rpm.
Not as much as deflection.
Bob Fox owner of spintron and Trend pushrods used a IHRA prostock engine on Spintron. He put a 16 ounce lead sleeve on the push rod. Spun it up and had zero effect on control.
So I have been told. I was not there.
Come on Steve. Are wrist pins solid or a tube? Are drive shafts solid or hollow? Are roll cages solid or hollow? You know why tubes are stronger.
Question. If you increase the rocker ratio from 1.6 to 1.7 would that also make the weight of the pushrod less of a concern? Really enjoy the Steve Tech content.
The pushrod weight has less of an impact with the 1.7.
Hey Steve, the reason a hollow tube is stronger than a solid cylinder (for the mass) is that when a torsional load (bending essentially) is applied the outer material around the diameter is what takes the most stress, and the least on the middle section. So basically a bigger diameter = more strength, and with the same mass a hollow tube will have a larger diameter than a solid cylinder.
Once the wall thickness reaches a certain point it is true that a tube is stronger than a cylinder FOR A GIVEN MASS of material. I’m absolute terms a cylinder is always stronger in bending vs a tube of the same OD.
@@totalyep I blatantly clarified that it was for the same mass, twice, so why exactly are you commenting that?
Benjamin S no you missed.
@@totalyep Ok sure, I guess you have selective understanding of plain English but whatever, you're 100% right lady
EI
You can have too much fuel pump. Ask the race week guys what happens with the return style fuel system with massive pumps when you switch back to pump gas. Guys were boiling their fuel this year on rocky mountain race week. But yes you can have too much pump as long as you can control everything or turn off pumps at times of reduced demand.
Maybe we or they, should had went with pull rods insted of push rods?
Church? hmm makes sense every gearhead needs all the help he can get and every hotrodder needs a garden angle as rowdy as he is. ever see a v 16 with nothing but a steering wheel a steering front axle a transaxle with some wheels tires and a seat attached i haven't done it but i want to, I'm crazy in need angles.
hmm strange... I live 20 minutes from Texas Speed HQ so I buy a lota stuff from em. Emailed em about the possibility of using a larger pushrod in my LQ4 and their response was "why"...... enough said. lol
👍😊🥂
Does anyone make a Titanium pushrod ???
lately, factory LS truck engines are bending pushrods within 10,000 miles from new. even saw one that actually broke in half something I've never heard of
no, thank you much!
That first pushrod looks like it was out of a 440.
Can't have enough boost too
Can never have to much radiator too...🙂
Correct!
This is A REPEAT that was .......re-released?
Where?
I thought the lady's always say the size of the push rod doesn't matter???
I bet they claim to never fart too!
What Steve is really talking about is push rod stiffness, I believe women would agree that stiff is better.😂
#4? You can never have too much cowbell.
so 3/8 pushrods in my street Cleveland is a bad idea lol
neat
Setting Lifters in the car throws me off
Rule number 4...No such thing as too much fun...
Rule 5...Go back to rule 4!
Small hp 1,000
I have a design concept for a "valveless" engine. Contact me for more info. (no, it is not 2-stroke!)
We have the technology bigger better 6million dollar push rod
thumbed
No Disrespect. But you said, can't have to big of pushrod. Then you said, stronger push rod can lesson loft, That is Beneficial . Then you said you don't want to mess with that. Then you said, you can't have to big a pushrod. My pore little brain is smoking.
Absolutely do no lose lift when pushrods bend. Lol. Until permanent deformation. Surface area to cross section is the strength of tubular rigidity.