I was blasting a 50 watt tube amp during a gig 2 weeks ago using stage monitors. Even my 335 was howling like a wolf. I felt like a king. It's a complete different experience.
I picked up one of the UA Dream 65 modeler pedals, and it is pretty good no doubt.. but man the real thing is just always a better and more visceral experience. I'll be buried with my OG 1965 deluxe reverb because of that
@@areallyboredguy5825 Maybe. Personally, I prefer getting used to one decent setup and call it a day. But then, I'm not a gearfluencer by any means, might be different in that case.
I’ll never understand this comment. Why wouldn’t John want you to click on the video? If his title makes people more likely to view it then it’s serving its purpose. The purpose of making these videos is so that people will see them, and for people to see them they have to have a title that people will click on. “Clickbait” has such a negative connotation, but the whole purpose of the title is so that you’ll see it and click on it. So isn’t every title technically clickbait?
I use amps for cover band gigs, outdoor venues and any bar gigs. I use my HX Stomp rig with a few extra pedals for worship gigs with in ears, depending on the church and the gig, sometimes I’ll bring my headrush frfr108. If you’re a gigging guitarist, you need to be able to do both I feel.
Why aren’t drummers being forced to play electronic drums by these “sound engineers”? It’s the loudest instrument on stage, yet I see almost zero push to make drummers use e-kits to foster the “silent stage” scenario. Any argument regarding the “feel” and “responsiveness” of e-drums also applies to guitar. I think the guitar modeling manufacturers are manipulating the online space to get people to use their products over traditional amps and an artificial movement to guitar modeling is being fostered by young players who are cutting their teeth with digital units and are being brainwashed into thinking they are superior to real amps. The confirmation bias then takes hold and they will go so far as to consider seasoned players who like using real amps as “boomers” who fear change. It’s gotten ridiculous. Use the tools that make you play your best and is the most enjoyable to play and stop letting sound guys dictate your gear choices!!
I gave up on acoustic drums years ago. Neolithic tech. All the noise blasting everywhere in every direction.. and then all the mics that they need to wire it up and then you need a sound guy he’s got eight channels just for the goddamn drums. Fuck that. We got a Roland TD 17 kit with the nice skins on it. It’s always in tune. I repeat it’s always in fucking tune. You can fold it up and put it in the back seat of the car and still room for people to sit back there. You run the output to a couple monitors the front of the stage bingo no more drums blowing you up from behind. The sound is going exactly where you wanted to go, towards the audience. Plus you got a ton of different patches that you can use.. it’s quiet, merciful God. Unless you’re playing a jazz gig in the round at a supper club or something I fail to see what the point of acoustic drums are.
@@theduppykillah All good points…..but you are the exception to the rule. Most drummers refuse to use e-kits in spite of the many positive aspects to using them over acoustic drums in many scenarios. I would even prefer e-kits for many of the reasons you listed, but there is zero, from my experience, push to move drummers away from acoustic drums like in the guitar sphere. Whenever I point this out……I just get blank stares and a shoulder shrug 🤷♂️. I’m all for people using whatever they want, but this “silent stage” phenomenon appears contrived to me…….and I am questioning the true motives.
You say as a sound guy you actually like having a fair amount of guitar volume coming from the guitar amp rather than the FOH speakers. In my opinion the big downside to this is that guitar amps are extremely beamy and directional. In small venues where I play what happens is the people on axis to even a small guitar combo get blown out with excessive guitar volume while everyone off-axis barely hears the guitar. That's why, in my opinion, it's better to have just enough volume on stage to hear yourself playing and to have the vast majority of the guitar volume coming out of the mains. Drums and bass are different--- their sound naturally spreads across the room with much less directionality.
I use either a Toneshield (very small and portable version of what Bonamassa does with plexiglass) to avoid beaming the front row / nearest punters. It’s also good at spreading the sound towards the rest of the band. Alternatively, I put a combo on an amp stand so the sound is heading upwards and the cone beam isn’t hitting anyone (except maybe me).
This is why I sold my helix rack and I bought a ‘70 Fender Pro Reverb & an Ox Box. Plenty of Power & Stage volume regardless of venue. Better “mic” placement than I could ever get on my own, and I can still play with the amp purists - which most guitarists I know still are.
I'm glad this topic's being discussed. I too believe "silent stage" gigs are far less common than some people think. I've never been asked to go without an amp. Also, every time I've heard guitarists using modellers, they've sounded poor. I also agree with JNC's comment about keeping the stage volume down. My preference is to have my combo amp just loud enough; not too quiet or too loud; miked up into the PA and then with some fed back to a floor monitor (no in-ears for me). If the drummer's too loud, then the floor monitor generally compensates for this. In any case, the drums should be miked too, and the drummer can back off and/or use practice sticks (e.g., hot rods). Arguably I could use a modeller or something like a Tech 21 Fly Rig and still have the floor monitor, but I suspect the sound wouldn't be as good. At a recent outdoor gig my amp (a Peavey Bandit) wasn't miked up, and I had to turn it up stupidly loud to be heard. Even with earplugs, it was painful by the end of the gig. Ridiculous, and completely avoidable if the person behind the PA knows what they're doing.
So I’ve been following this channel for years and ❤John’s playing! First episode I ever heard he was auditioning a vintage Vox AC 30 and recollect had a mesa Boogie or two in the background. Thankfully I never got lost in John’s tedious labyrinth of modelers and pedal demos. 😮 Now John is back to amps. Who else is not surprised?😂. That said, I predict there will be a steady stream of modeler and pedal videos in the upcoming year!
I play guitar professionally and am currently playing on average 3 gigs a week, and 5 or 6 when I'm on tour. Whilst it's true I can't crank a 30w tube amp into overdrive I can still play them at a decent volume at every gig. Even function band/wedding gigs that have a limiter is rarely a problem for me. On artist gigs it depends on the size of the room but I've never used a modeller and also never been asked to. Artist gigs vary between RnB, Pop, Funk, Blues, Soul. I think it's a very specific type of artist that wants a silent stage. I know it happens but I don't think it's as common as people think it is nowadays. I've never come across a silent stage gig. I do love using in ears which helps as I don't have to hear my guitar amp louder than the drums on stage, but I can still get a Fender amp (Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro) between 3 and 4 on every gig. The volume taper does differ massively on the old ones so not sure that's the best thing to go on but it gives a rough idea
For the most part, I agree with you. Do you mind explaining what you mean by: "Even function band/wedding gigs that have a limiter is rarely a problem for me?"
Suhr Reactive Load I.R. was a game changer for me! I can play at gigs using only the IR front to house and out to the cab still if I wish or just FOH, practice at home with just headphones silently even with any tube amp. I have also used the cab sim out of the Synergy 50 Head (another game changer imo), run my master low and let the front of house control their levels. Cheers!
Sound guys can have outsized egos just as much as guitarists can, and that never gets talked about. They are called “sound reinforcement” for a reason. In 2024 when there is conflict, mostly I see guitar players trying to work with techs and getting unreasonable treatment. Venue owners usually don’t know a “silent stage” direct sound from a properly levelled live amp unless the venue’s sound guy has sold him on it. They also don’t know when it’s reasonable or not to use “silent” rigs. Unless I have a good relationship with a sound guy I trust, I simply won’t put my entire stage sound in their hands. If I walk out front during a solo, (I play rock and blues) and the guitar is buried when it should be up, I’m bringing an amp next time. If I see the sound guy walk away from a static mix, I’m bringing an amp and I’m using a boost for solos. If that is “not allowed”, I’m just not doing that gig. If it’s the sound guy’s preference that’s the issue, I’ll bring a tech or do my own sound with a wireless. I’m not a streaming service or MP3 player, I’m a musician. Silent stages at small rock clubs are as unreasonable as a 100w Plexi full stack in a small rock club. If I can’t hear anything but me with my 15w tube combo, I’m too loud, I turn down. Rock music is guitar/bass/drums/(keys)/vocals at roughly equal importance in a mix. Not equal levels all the time, but equal importance. If I feel that a direct rig makes sense, I’ll use one. I have used them and in some settings I even prefer them. That said, some pushback is required here. I’ll lose some gigs, sure, but I don’t want gigs that are boring and detached from what I love to do. Win/win.
A 4x12 really shouldn't evoke the collective eye-roll. If you're the only guitarist in a Pub-Rock band, with a hard-hitting drummer and no soundman, it gives a bit more feel and presence than a 2x12 cab, and isn't any 'louder', whilst increasing spread to the audience, rather than your sound firing at people's legs. I mean, Rock bands did that in clubs for 40 years right? What changed? Did the bands get louder??
I've played gigs where as soon as you turn on the pa (vocal only) and say "Testing One Two" somebody comes up and says "Can you please turn it down?". Having to play a 30w tube amp at a range below the first notch is infuriating, especially when one cymbal crash overpowers your big ole G chord.
I've been playing on an FM9 and an EV PXM-12MP monitor for about 2 years now, and I love it..... but even as a bedroom guitar player I missed having a tube amp so much I bought a JCM 800, 1960AHW, and Powerstation PS-100 because the truth is they are both two totally different animals
Not gigging now, but when I was (70s, 80s pop rock cover thing), I was one of two guitars and mainly lead vocals. I was using a 2x12 Mesa Lone Star, great sound even at low volume but back breaking. Initially it was the standard floor wedges thing, and the stage volume was super high due mostly to the loud drummer. Ringing ears after gigs, unless I put in earplugs. Bah. When we went all in-ears, we had our own multi output digital mixer, each with their own stereo monitor mix controlled by their own iPads. What a treat to sing this way! The other guitarist switched from an amp to the Helix, sounded ok in the in-ears. Then Line6 released the Lone Star model, and his guitar pretty much sounded like my tube Lone Star in my ears, far less weight, and far better control in the mix of course. I bought the Helix and eventually sold off the Mesa as I never used it anymore. I don't think I could have done the in-ear thing without having full control over my own monitor mix. I also can't stand it when I go see a band in a pub and the guitar player is the only instrument I can hear, cause he's an idiot with far too much audio power.. So, If I was to gig again, I'd want in-ears, and my own mix, and I'd use my Helix.
When I was gigging a lot, my preferred setup was a Helix going into the effects return of a 15-watt 6V6 amp (Egnater Tweaker) into a 2x12 open-back cab. This setup minimized my fail points (guitar > Helix > amp > cab) and gave me a plethora of way-different and quite usable sounds. And by using a small tube amp as a power amp, I got a gorgeous tube-driven sound that was quite inspiring on stage and also offered great feedback for solos (think "Comfortably Numb" :). I did have to use my backup amp once, an Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum (which fit nicely into my gig bag), and to my surprise, it was almost indistinguishable from the the tube amp.
I love amps and I still record them when working in the studio. The ease of load in, load out, setting up and breaking down on stage between bands and just touring in general the Axe Fx has just made life so much easier. I don't have to chase issues with cables and pedals or anything like that. I have a consistent sound without worrying about what mic or how anyone mic'ed me up. I play in a cover band on the weekend as well and used to run the axe fx into front of house and also into a Mesa 2x12 but I even stopped doing that. I also run the sound for our band and we have a pretty decent sound system. I have thought about maybe going back to amps and things but there is a flexibility of using modelers - especially for a cover band - is hard to beat. I can have "many amps" and effects and turn multiple on at once instead of having only 1 amp and tap dancing on pedals. Again amps and pedals are awesome but sadly modelers have made it hard to go back to just an amp without having a place to really crank one and people to maybe help setup and run (more so for touring).
At home; modelers make sense to keep the sound at a reasonable level for other home dwellers. Live, nothing compares to connecting the electric guitar to a fire breathing tube amp.
I've tried everything to get out of tube.. but I love my Fender Hotrod 1x12. Its like all the fender amps in one and makes an amazing clean platform for amp modelers as well. I just wish they were made better. I've had issues with brand new ones.. but I keep going back to that amp.
The main issue are those two white box resistors at the bottom/middle of the pcb, they get very hot. Replace and have them raised off the board surrounded by air, not touching. Check out a Deville 410 if one pops up cheap.
Thanks for this video. I just joined a band for the first time & got a small head & cab since we will hopefully be gigging soon. However, I saw many guitarists saying an HX stomp or direct to PA set up is ideal now. So of course, I second guessed my amp purchase. However, seeing your video now I think the amp makes more sense for me & I feel better about my decision. Also, I adore the amp haha. Added bonus the amp head has a nice direct to PA out feature.
I did the same thing. Hand-wired Fender '83 Concert Amp with a Stomp XL in its effects loop (for the time space effects + a few of the Fender preamps). Satisfied
I have to disagree with you regarding the Fender FR12 vs real amp weight, JNC. Most combo tube amps are over 40 pounds (Fender Tone Master amps are lighter but they're digital). The FR12 is under 28 pounds.
@@erickuehnl I actually just got one this past weekend so far I'm liking it but have never really been a big amp guy so I guess I don't wonder if it sounds "real" or not cuz all the sounds in my head are off modelling
I have been gigging with a Kemper while using a Mesa Combo as my "stage monitor" running the Kemper to the FX return, but I recently picked up a Soldano Astro 20 to have any combination of mic'd amp, direct with in-ears, split with direct going to FOH, as well as that signal being a profile or analogue signal chain with selectable IRs on the back end, depending on the gig or venue without having to bring a completely different rig each time. Even if the Soldano speaker is muted and direct signal going out the XLR, the amp will still look cool and the knobs are always there on the backline. ☮💜🎶
What worries me about buying something like a quad cortex instead of a tube amp is the tech evolving like other electronics and it being useless in a few years because the software stops being updated for the unit. I’ve got a Vibroverb that is highly sought after and sounds incredible. Modelers try to emulate this amp but this amp will be around after me and still sound incredible.
I've been using a HX Stomp for about a year after moving from an Amp with a Captor X. Basically, for practice and a lot of the gigs it's just easier to hand off a DI that has your whole sound instead of micing the cab. After using it for awhile, I just missed the air moving. Recently got a Katana Artist combo and have been super happy. I can get a lot of the sounds I want, the weight is less and complexity is simpler, has DI out, etc. I can run it at 5W, 50W or even 100W (really never use it above 50) or even no sound. Is it the best sounding amp I have...nope...but it does sound good and has a lot of flexibility for a cover band.
What next Vinyl records, Cassettes and Petrol cars? In all seriousness, for low volume gigs (Corp Jazz / Pop stuff) give me a modeller and in ears any day of the week.
As a Player and as a Listener, I prefer amps on stage . The higher the watts the less they need to be opened and they just have much more headroom and "size". Same goes for cabinets, 2-12s are great 4-12s are better. the watts are spread into 2 or 4 speakers and it is actually quieter right in front of the amp. Its not about volume, its more about spreading it around and making it the least "Direct" sounding possible. With small amps all the power/volume is projected in a straight direction and act very much like a Spot light. You have to be directly in front of them to be able to "understand" what they are outputting. And even a 30-40 watt single speaker amp will end up louder in front of the amp than a 212 50w or a 412 100w. do the math... The player will actually end up adding more volume and will be asked to lower the volume down because he has the amp pointed directly at the sound guy... been there so many times...:-) BTW, I have been using modelers before (Fractal FM3, Tonex), and people would approach me saying I'm not being heard... I felt that too... I mean, Not having an amp or monitor and being heard at the front of the stage at the same time... Every other day I see another famous guitar player presenting his new - purely modeler - rig It has a lot of advantages, but from listening to live recordings of those bands the guitar sound did definitely not get better. I guess everyone has their own choices or preferences.
Maybe Kyle should just look at a Fractal VP4, FM3/FM9 to use with his amps. The effects alone are amazing. Any could be used to the front of the amp or 4 cable. FM3/FM9 could go straight to FOH. He gets all the options and tons of flexibility without managing a pedal board, switching pedals on and off, often wishing there was some effect you don't currently have on it.
I play rhythm in a punk band and do a lot of local shows in very small venues. I probably don't need this much power, but I run a Victory V130 into a Marshall 1960A 412. A lot of the places we play don't have the best PAs or monitoring (or no monitors in a lot of cases) so I feel it's honestly worth hauling it around.
I really prefer multi speaker amps, they just sound more open. Vibroluxe over a deluxe every time. Enough watts to maintain clarity, headroom and openness, 35ish range. Don’t buy that 15 watts is all you need silliness. Sometimes low watts works, right up to the point you run out of headroom. I went to a multi-band indoor festival and most guys were using low watt, high dollar amps and it was a mudfest. One dude pulled out a twin stuffed into a 2x10 combo and it was glorious without being noticeably louder than the smaller amps
If you’re playing a basement/party show where you’re not running guitar through the PA, you’re totally right about 4x12’s. Or even big 2x12’s. It fills the room more with the sound, and it will get above the drums nicely. I still believe that the experience of a group of people making acoustic noise together in a room cannot be beat. It’s not even necessarily about the sound- it’s about the cohesive energy and feeling. In-ears or ear plugs are just a reality now that we understand the effects of excessive exposure to high volume. But for me and the kinds of bands I love, I cannot fathom rocking out and making noise with all the sound coming strictly through little ear monitors. That takes away at least 50% of the entire experience. I can’t imagine being in a punk band and feeling zero sound on stage aside from a kick drum.
Made the switch as well, I just got a monoprice 1x12 to leave at church, just bring my pedalboard (hx stomp + analog drives) and head back and forth, I like the feel of it better than the powered speaker I was using, and I end up playing better. I find that modulation effects jump out a little better through the cabinet, (I have never liked vibrato until now) and delays/verbs seem to lose that "pristine" quality to the repeats. Now, that can get muddy if you're not careful, but when dialed right, the speaker seems to help get delays/verbs smooth together in the mix; I guess you could achieve the same effect in the helix by putting the cab/ir last in the chain. I've got a bunch of presets set up for the amp and versions of the same presets for internal modeling, so I haven't completely abandoned modeling, I like having the option.
Idk man it's SO close already and the tech is only going to get better. I'd wager within 5-10 years (if not sooner) modeling tech will be at a point where there is virtually no discernable difference whatsoever in feel/response/tone between tube amps and modelers.
I use my Quad Cortex in the theatre but the ship has 4 Mesa Boogie alone Star specials the ones with the EL84 tubes (valves). So I use the amps in the various pubs and clubs. The theatre is an in ear gig only and I have to say I love just in ears. We set up our own mixes through an aviom system.
In my experience with modelers so far, compared to tube amps... the louder you amplify a modeler, the worse it sounds, but a real amp generally sounds better the more you turn it up! I'll rehearse at low volumes with a modeler and my FR12, and it sounds pretty good, but when I turn it up to gig volume (playing loud heavy rock) it starts to sound not so great. BTW I play at small bars around Southern California and never come across a "silent stage". Everyone around here uses amps, and it's not uncommon for people to have 4x12 cabs. Actually I saw one guy playing a Fractal, but he was amplifying through a 4x12 Marshall cab! :D
I tilt my amp towards the ceiling by using a spray paint can as an amp stand from the rear. Works really well, then I always bring my own personal sennheiser 609 and lay it on side cone of the speaker and be done with it. that way people in the front as well as the front of house doesn’t get blasted.
Have you tried the Laney Lionheart Loud Pedal by any chance? That would give you a clean amp platform that can go to both a cabinet and front of the house. It would remove the amp head out of the equation. My main issue with modelers seems to be the FRFR most of the times. I feel there's some "glue" that happens when you go out of an actual cabinet, especially as you raise the volume. A guitar speaker can't replicate all the frequency at all volumes the same way an FRFR is supposed to. So the bell curved eq that is natural to a guitar speaker as it gets louder seems to at least one of the missing things. I tested sending the left channel to an FRFR and right channel (without cab sim) to the amp in of a katana amp. At low volume they sounded pretty much identical but you could tell there was more "glue" in the katana. As I raised the volume it became much more evident that there was something dry about the FRFR sound.
I play in a blue/rock bar band and use a peavey classic 50 4/10 its heavy as a tank but I can keep the stage volume just loud enough to keep up with the drums and not over power everyone else. Unless I want too.
There are certain nuances you get from an amp that no modeller can achieve. Yes, Joe Soap public can rarely tell the difference. However, one’s playing confidence depends on how satisfied you are with the gear you’re using. The interaction between the hands, the guitar, the amp and one’s ears. It’s a very tactile and personal thing.
I picked up one of the UA Dream 65 modeler pedals, and it is pretty good and modelers/amp sims have come a long way no doubt.. but man the real thing is just always a better and more visceral experience imo. I'll be buried with my OG 1965 deluxe reverb because of that
I saw John McLaughlin play Ronnies and he didn't use an amp, just DI'd with some bonkers effects. It sounded wack. Amps are better for audiences IMHO, music colleges have a lot to answer for. Silent stages solve a problem nobody had apart from the soundman - that he didn't have 'complete control'.
Seems like when the bluguitar amp x comes out it will fulfill a lot of your requirements. Go direct, go to cab, or do any combinations. Many levels of gain available and the basic effects covered. All in one box
I love amps, but for me to hit their sweet spot they need to be pretty loud. I also really enjoy the tones I get with my HX Stomp and Fender FR-10. I can even get good feedback with that combination.
Do you find you miss the bigger speaker/cab going to the 10”? I’m tempted to pick one up due to the super low weight and compact size. It’s a little lighter but MUCH smaller than the 12”.
@@erickuehnl No, it actually has more thump than my open back combo amps. I also haven't felt like I couldn't keep up with my lead player who uses a 70's Marshall JMP through a 4X12. This is in an old school punk/hard rock kind of band.
I have a pretty unique experience tbh I have never once used an amp for live performance. Everything has always been modeller straight to front of house for as long as I’ve been playing professionally (2019-ish). I play about 110+ shows a year that way and I’ve never thought anything of it tbh. I’ve never been a big gear guy but lately I’ve been getting the itch to get an FRFR or a pair of FRFRs to use on stage for some volume to see how it is. I don’t know what im missing ya know? Also I have a shit load of really nice theatre/casino gigs next year that have insane back lines so I’m planning on doing stereo modeller to FOH with IRs and stereo out without IRs (put with my modeller acting as a pre amp) to the FX return of a pair of Marshall half stacks. I’m the only guitarist in the band and I think it would be cool to: -have some extra sound on stage (air being pushed) -it will look fucking cooler than hell
For me it’s both but 90% the modeller live as it just works in more situations for me (and 100% modeller at home). Studio I go for an amp. The thing is - modeller doesn’t have to equal silent stage. I use a fender fr10 when I use it on most gigs except the touring theatre shows I do then I go IEM’s (which I hate but hey). I hardly ever get to play with another guitarist so that something 😢. In an ideal world I’d be able to use one of my Victoria amps at the ideal level and a bunch of pedals, but that ideal world rarely exists unfortunately.
I went from a Peavy 5150 and 4x12 to Marshall Studio vintage and marshall 4x10 with pedals, and then to a friedman WW20 and 1x12 and pedals. When Fractal came out I used AX8 but stayed with Amp for gigs. Then Boss Katana 100w as power amp for FM3 , but seemed to dark and couldnt get it dialed in. I am now using the same Friedman WW20 and an FM9 for effects through Return, and 1-2 drives in front of the amp which worked really well. After all of the updates to the firmware I tried the FM9 , bypassing the Cab block to the return from out 3, and using Out1 w/Cab block to FOH. The 5150 tone was massive and was great when I was younger and bigger venues. While using the friedman as the power amp and FM9 sounded very good , and was very versatile for cover material, I was still missing something that using the Friedman amp and 1x12 , with FM9 effects had. Natural feedback for one , and would cut better. I still will continue to try and get the tone I hear at bedroom levels right out of the FM9, especially dumble tones. Thanks John, really enjoyed the video!
Yet to see you use the Stereo Blackstar "katana/catalyst" as solid state power amp with the HX Stomp. - The blackstar IDCORE 100 is loud, compact... and stereo or wet dry 🙂
How do you singing guitarists feel about monitoring. The tension is that I prefer a wedge for instruments (and other vocalists) but in-ears for my vocals. Anyone deal with this and find a compromise? I wish there was an ear solution which allowed mixing of outside ambient sounds (like iPods pro) with the direct from desk sound.
I still think the spread are overlooked in this context. A guitar amp with e.g. Celestion speaker, only sounds great in some spots, typically where the guitarist stands. But the audience get a completely different sound. This is where the FRFR excels. And with a live drummer, i do think that backgear is needed om smaller places, otherwise it sounds like the drummer is isolated and the rest of the band is in some sort of fase hell from the speakers placed to the left and right of the scene. The decision of amp/frfr/in-ear, should always have the audience in mindt.
I don't enjoy the church gigs where I'm going direct with in-ears, but it's necessary and better then being told to turn the amp down lower than speaking volume (a pignose is too loud? It is our building) I'll still use an amp though if I feel that the sound person isn't experienced enough to set levels well. For non church gigs were volume isn't as much of a concern I'm going amp all the way.
I have had a few shows require no amps. I currently have a Tonemaster Pro/FR10 for those if/when they occur. Otherwise I generally use a Mesa Fillmore 25 combo or a Fillmore 50 combo, depending on my mood. The 50 isn't necessarily louder, tone is different. My band mic's everything to FOH and to our IEM sever/system. We are sensitive to volume and my back is sensitive to weight !!!
I tried going direct several times. It sounded great at home and was lacking tonally and feel-wise once out on the gig. I'm not the kind of person that is into going into a preset and tweaking things. I felt kind of like my hands were tied and couldn't get into it. I'd rather reach down and turn a knob and be done with it. You can also interact with an amp if you like playing with feedback. I'm not so sure you can do that with a modeler. I've had a few sound guys say that I was too loud with an amp and told me I was no longer in the mix. Sorry, my amp doesn't sound good until it's really working. My compromise was to go out with a small watt amp and mic it if I needed to.
i use a single marshall 4x12 run stereo with vhtd50 and quilter superblock US. stereo allows for less "beaming" and if one amp dies i have a backup amp already plugged in and running (wont be stereo if one amp dies but its better than the whole rig going down). best rig ive ever had and 4x12 really aint that big when compared to any 2x12
I just use whatever vocal wedge is in front of me to monitor my guitar. I have a nice Friedman setup at home but it just doesn’t make sense for bar gigs.
I still use a 100 watt head and a 4x12. I also use a two notes torpedo captor X. Problem solved. For smaller gigs I have a 1x12. I also have a Kemper. Use what fits the gig. But you don’t have to go digital.
Let's not forget that in 4 or 5 years tops your top modeller/profiler will be outdated, nearly obsolete and with a resale value of probably 1/3 of what you've paid for. Whereas for a top valve amp that length of time means nothing, and in many cases will appreciate instead.
i definatley prefre the reala amp sound. i play bass for my live gigs and it just feels better for everyone, i use the helix lt into the pa and the sound i get is flat , being in regional australia venues are a behind the rest of the world so live amps are still ok
Can't wait for the "Why I switched back to modelers" video in February 😂. I'm sorry John, but you and Rhett Shull are by far this worst with this clickbaity cork-sniffing nonsense in the RUclips guitar community. I stick around because I enjoy listening to your playing, but come on dude
Seems most guitarist just want a light combo pedal platform That sounds great at all volumes , an IR loader for pa and recording and a headphone jack for practice There a billion products out there but not this seemingly simple thing
Because you are still relatively young and your back is still ok after lifting Heavyweight Amps...or found someone who carries it to the club for you 😅😅
The problem with amps is they sound so raw and animalistic, borderline uncontrollable even, they run counter to everything that groundbreaking guitar playing is about.
Hmmm....I don't really find IEMs that troublesome. Maybe its because I control the mix, but I find I get plenty of amp thump and sparkle with my IEMs. Its true that the experience of playing a loud amp is physically different....feedback, feeling the percussiveness of the amp, etc...but its just different, not qualitatively better....to me, anyway. YMMV.
Line6 HXFX with a real 5153 and the matching 1x12 or a Marshall 4x12 if I really want to go old school. Marriage made in heaven. Why try to get a modeler to try and sound like a real amp? Just use a real amp! lol One main tone is good enough for me. At home though, I love the Helix Native modeler.
Can't wait for next months video "Why I went back to modelers on a gig".
All the gear is great.
I was blasting a 50 watt tube amp during a gig 2 weeks ago using stage monitors. Even my 335 was howling like a wolf. I felt like a king. It's a complete different experience.
I picked up one of the UA Dream 65 modeler pedals, and it is pretty good no doubt.. but man the real thing is just always a better and more visceral experience. I'll be buried with my OG 1965 deluxe reverb because of that
You can't replace the feel of a good amp. I agree with you wholeheartedly!
For how long? Two weeks? And no, I didn't even start watching the video. Sorry John, but this is getting more and more clickbaity.
Idk honestly lol, I feel a lot of people (me included) change their minds over and over. So it actually seems normal to my ADHD self lol😅
@@areallyboredguy5825 Maybe. Personally, I prefer getting used to one decent setup and call it a day. But then, I'm not a gearfluencer by any means, might be different in that case.
It's Les Paul's all over again.
I’ll never understand this comment. Why wouldn’t John want you to click on the video? If his title makes people more likely to view it then it’s serving its purpose. The purpose of making these videos is so that people will see them, and for people to see them they have to have a title that people will click on.
“Clickbait” has such a negative connotation, but the whole purpose of the title is so that you’ll see it and click on it. So isn’t every title technically clickbait?
I took the bait and clicked - worth it for the Gregg W joke
I use amps for cover band gigs, outdoor venues and any bar gigs. I use my HX Stomp rig with a few extra pedals for worship gigs with in ears, depending on the church and the gig, sometimes I’ll bring my headrush frfr108. If you’re a gigging guitarist, you need to be able to do both I feel.
Why aren’t drummers being forced to play electronic drums by these “sound engineers”? It’s the loudest instrument on stage, yet I see almost zero push to make drummers use e-kits to foster the “silent stage” scenario. Any argument regarding the “feel” and “responsiveness” of e-drums also applies to guitar. I think the guitar modeling manufacturers are manipulating the online space to get people to use their products over traditional amps and an artificial movement to guitar modeling is being fostered by young players who are cutting their teeth with digital units and are being brainwashed into thinking they are superior to real amps. The confirmation bias then takes hold and they will go so far as to consider seasoned players who like using real amps as “boomers” who fear change. It’s gotten ridiculous. Use the tools that make you play your best and is the most enjoyable to play and stop letting sound guys dictate your gear choices!!
I gave up on acoustic drums years ago. Neolithic tech. All the noise blasting everywhere in every direction.. and then all the mics that they need to wire it up and then you need a sound guy he’s got eight channels just for the goddamn drums. Fuck that. We got a Roland TD 17 kit with the nice skins on it. It’s always in tune. I repeat it’s always in fucking tune. You can fold it up and put it in the back seat of the car and still room for people to sit back there. You run the output to a couple monitors the front of the stage bingo no more drums blowing you up from behind. The sound is going exactly where you wanted to go, towards the audience. Plus you got a ton of different patches that you can use.. it’s quiet, merciful God. Unless you’re playing a jazz gig in the round at a supper club or something I fail to see what the point of acoustic drums are.
Whole heartedly agree
@@theduppykillah All good points…..but you are the exception to the rule. Most drummers refuse to use e-kits in spite of the many positive aspects to using them over acoustic drums in many scenarios. I would even prefer e-kits for many of the reasons you listed, but there is zero, from my experience, push to move drummers away from acoustic drums like in the guitar sphere. Whenever I point this out……I just get blank stares and a shoulder shrug 🤷♂️. I’m all for people using whatever they want, but this “silent stage” phenomenon appears contrived to me…….and I am questioning the true motives.
You say as a sound guy you actually like having a fair amount of guitar volume coming from the guitar amp rather than the FOH speakers. In my opinion the big downside to this is that guitar amps are extremely beamy and directional. In small venues where I play what happens is the people on axis to even a small guitar combo get blown out with excessive guitar volume while everyone off-axis barely hears the guitar. That's why, in my opinion, it's better to have just enough volume on stage to hear yourself playing and to have the vast majority of the guitar volume coming out of the mains. Drums and bass are different--- their sound naturally spreads across the room with much less directionality.
I use either a Toneshield (very small and portable version of what Bonamassa does with plexiglass) to avoid beaming the front row / nearest punters. It’s also good at spreading the sound towards the rest of the band. Alternatively, I put a combo on an amp stand so the sound is heading upwards and the cone beam isn’t hitting anyone (except maybe me).
This is why I sold my helix rack and I bought a ‘70 Fender Pro Reverb & an Ox Box. Plenty of Power & Stage volume regardless of venue. Better “mic” placement than I could ever get on my own, and I can still play with the amp purists - which most guitarists I know still are.
I'm glad this topic's being discussed. I too believe "silent stage" gigs are far less common than some people think. I've never been asked to go without an amp. Also, every time I've heard guitarists using modellers, they've sounded poor. I also agree with JNC's comment about keeping the stage volume down. My preference is to have my combo amp just loud enough; not too quiet or too loud; miked up into the PA and then with some fed back to a floor monitor (no in-ears for me). If the drummer's too loud, then the floor monitor generally compensates for this. In any case, the drums should be miked too, and the drummer can back off and/or use practice sticks (e.g., hot rods). Arguably I could use a modeller or something like a Tech 21 Fly Rig and still have the floor monitor, but I suspect the sound wouldn't be as good. At a recent outdoor gig my amp (a Peavey Bandit) wasn't miked up, and I had to turn it up stupidly loud to be heard. Even with earplugs, it was painful by the end of the gig. Ridiculous, and completely avoidable if the person behind the PA knows what they're doing.
So I’ve been following this channel for years and ❤John’s playing! First episode I ever heard he was auditioning a vintage Vox AC 30 and recollect had a mesa Boogie or two in the background. Thankfully I never got lost in John’s tedious labyrinth of modelers and pedal demos. 😮
Now John is back to amps. Who else is not surprised?😂. That said, I predict there will be a steady stream of modeler and pedal videos in the upcoming year!
I play guitar professionally and am currently playing on average 3 gigs a week, and 5 or 6 when I'm on tour. Whilst it's true I can't crank a 30w tube amp into overdrive I can still play them at a decent volume at every gig. Even function band/wedding gigs that have a limiter is rarely a problem for me. On artist gigs it depends on the size of the room but I've never used a modeller and also never been asked to. Artist gigs vary between RnB, Pop, Funk, Blues, Soul.
I think it's a very specific type of artist that wants a silent stage. I know it happens but I don't think it's as common as people think it is nowadays. I've never come across a silent stage gig. I do love using in ears which helps as I don't have to hear my guitar amp louder than the drums on stage, but I can still get a Fender amp (Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro) between 3 and 4 on every gig. The volume taper does differ massively on the old ones so not sure that's the best thing to go on but it gives a rough idea
@@ollyknightsmith Great point regarding the volume taper being different on individual amps even of the same model.
For the most part, I agree with you. Do you mind explaining what you mean by: "Even function band/wedding gigs that have a limiter is rarely a problem for me?"
Suhr Reactive Load I.R. was a game changer for me! I can play at gigs using only the IR front to house and out to the cab still if I wish or just FOH, practice at home with just headphones silently even with any tube amp. I have also used the cab sim out of the Synergy 50 Head (another game changer imo), run my master low and let the front of house control their levels. Cheers!
I like your LOST sweat jacket! That is the deepest TV show ever to be created.
Bro your brain is a roller coaster, equisite playing none the less.
Sound guys can have outsized egos just as much as guitarists can, and that never gets talked about. They are called “sound reinforcement” for a reason. In 2024 when there is conflict, mostly I see guitar players trying to work with techs and getting unreasonable treatment. Venue owners usually don’t know a “silent stage” direct sound from a properly levelled live amp unless the venue’s sound guy has sold him on it. They also don’t know when it’s reasonable or not to use “silent” rigs.
Unless I have a good relationship with a sound guy I trust, I simply won’t put my entire stage sound in their hands. If I walk out front during a solo, (I play rock and blues) and the guitar is buried when it should be up, I’m bringing an amp next time. If I see the sound guy walk away from a static mix, I’m bringing an amp and I’m using a boost for solos. If that is “not allowed”, I’m just not doing that gig. If it’s the sound guy’s preference that’s the issue, I’ll bring a tech or do my own sound with a wireless. I’m not a streaming service or MP3 player, I’m a musician.
Silent stages at small rock clubs are as unreasonable as a 100w Plexi full stack in a small rock club. If I can’t hear anything but me with my 15w tube combo, I’m too loud, I turn down. Rock music is guitar/bass/drums/(keys)/vocals at roughly equal importance in a mix. Not equal levels all the time, but equal importance.
If I feel that a direct rig makes sense, I’ll use one. I have used them and in some settings I even prefer them.
That said, some pushback is required here.
I’ll lose some gigs, sure, but I don’t want gigs that are boring and detached from what I love to do. Win/win.
100%!!!!🎉
A 4x12 really shouldn't evoke the collective eye-roll. If you're the only guitarist in a Pub-Rock band, with a hard-hitting drummer and no soundman, it gives a bit more feel and presence than a 2x12 cab, and isn't any 'louder', whilst increasing spread to the audience, rather than your sound firing at people's legs. I mean, Rock bands did that in clubs for 40 years right? What changed? Did the bands get louder??
The fines for noise pollution and losing your pub license happened
Never say never, but I'll never 😉 go back to amps and pedals in a live situation again. I could write a book on why. And, I love amps and pedals.
I've played gigs where as soon as you turn on the pa (vocal only) and say "Testing One Two" somebody comes up and says "Can you please turn it down?". Having to play a 30w tube amp at a range below the first notch is infuriating, especially when one cymbal crash overpowers your big ole G chord.
Yup!
I have nothing whatsoever to add to this comment section, but I type this to feed the almighty algorithm so John is shown to more people.
“He’s from up North but that’s fine...” 😂
As an Essex-boy, that’s my attitude to my Northern in-laws too.
I've been playing on an FM9 and an EV PXM-12MP monitor for about 2 years now, and I love it..... but even as a bedroom guitar player I missed having a tube amp so much I bought a JCM 800, 1960AHW, and Powerstation PS-100 because the truth is they are both two totally different animals
Necessity is the mother of invention! The discussion continues.
Not gigging now, but when I was (70s, 80s pop rock cover thing), I was one of two guitars and mainly lead vocals.
I was using a 2x12 Mesa Lone Star, great sound even at low volume but back breaking.
Initially it was the standard floor wedges thing, and the stage volume was super high due mostly to the loud drummer.
Ringing ears after gigs, unless I put in earplugs. Bah.
When we went all in-ears, we had our own multi output digital mixer, each with their own stereo monitor mix controlled by their own iPads.
What a treat to sing this way! The other guitarist switched from an amp to the Helix, sounded ok in the in-ears. Then Line6 released the Lone Star model, and his guitar
pretty much sounded like my tube Lone Star in my ears, far less weight, and far better control in the mix of course.
I bought the Helix and eventually sold off the Mesa as I never used it anymore.
I don't think I could have done the in-ear thing without having full control over my own monitor mix.
I also can't stand it when I go see a band in a pub and the guitar player is the only instrument I can hear, cause he's an idiot with far too much audio power..
So, If I was to gig again, I'd want in-ears, and my own mix, and I'd use my Helix.
When I was gigging a lot, my preferred setup was a Helix going into the effects return of a 15-watt 6V6 amp (Egnater Tweaker) into a 2x12 open-back cab. This setup minimized my fail points (guitar > Helix > amp > cab) and gave me a plethora of way-different and quite usable sounds. And by using a small tube amp as a power amp, I got a gorgeous tube-driven sound that was quite inspiring on stage and also offered great feedback for solos (think "Comfortably Numb" :). I did have to use my backup amp once, an Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum (which fit nicely into my gig bag), and to my surprise, it was almost indistinguishable from the the tube amp.
I love amps and I still record them when working in the studio. The ease of load in, load out, setting up and breaking down on stage between bands and just touring in general the Axe Fx has just made life so much easier. I don't have to chase issues with cables and pedals or anything like that. I have a consistent sound without worrying about what mic or how anyone mic'ed me up. I play in a cover band on the weekend as well and used to run the axe fx into front of house and also into a Mesa 2x12 but I even stopped doing that. I also run the sound for our band and we have a pretty decent sound system. I have thought about maybe going back to amps and things but there is a flexibility of using modelers - especially for a cover band - is hard to beat. I can have "many amps" and effects and turn multiple on at once instead of having only 1 amp and tap dancing on pedals. Again amps and pedals are awesome but sadly modelers have made it hard to go back to just an amp without having a place to really crank one and people to maybe help setup and run (more so for touring).
At home; modelers make sense to keep the sound at a reasonable level for other home dwellers. Live, nothing compares to connecting the electric guitar to a fire breathing tube amp.
Keep the videos coming John! Tube amps are 1000% the only way to go.
I've tried everything to get out of tube.. but I love my Fender Hotrod 1x12. Its like all the fender amps in one and makes an amazing clean platform for amp modelers as well. I just wish they were made better. I've had issues with brand new ones.. but I keep going back to that amp.
The main issue are those two white box resistors at the bottom/middle of the pcb, they get very hot. Replace and have them raised off the board surrounded by air, not touching.
Check out a Deville 410 if one pops up cheap.
Superb playing and tone in that intro.
Thanks for this video. I just joined a band for the first time & got a small head & cab since we will hopefully be gigging soon. However, I saw many guitarists saying an HX stomp or direct to PA set up is ideal now. So of course, I second guessed my amp purchase. However, seeing your video now I think the amp makes more sense for me & I feel better about my decision. Also, I adore the amp haha. Added bonus the amp head has a nice direct to PA out feature.
I did the same thing. Hand-wired Fender '83 Concert Amp with a Stomp XL in its effects loop (for the time space effects + a few of the Fender preamps). Satisfied
I have to disagree with you regarding the Fender FR12 vs real amp weight, JNC. Most combo tube amps are over 40 pounds (Fender Tone Master amps are lighter but they're digital). The FR12 is under 28 pounds.
Yep. I’m actually considering picking up an FR10 to go even lighter and more compact.
@@erickuehnl I actually just got one this past weekend so far I'm liking it but have never really been a big amp guy so I guess I don't wonder if it sounds "real" or not cuz all the sounds in my head are off modelling
I have been gigging with a Kemper while using a Mesa Combo as my "stage monitor" running the Kemper to the FX return, but I recently picked up a Soldano Astro 20 to have any combination of mic'd amp, direct with in-ears, split with direct going to FOH, as well as that signal being a profile or analogue signal chain with selectable IRs on the back end, depending on the gig or venue without having to bring a completely different rig each time. Even if the Soldano speaker is muted and direct signal going out the XLR, the amp will still look cool and the knobs are always there on the backline. ☮💜🎶
8:49 is a topic i’ve never heard discussed and i
think it would be fascinating to deep dive
It's like the difference between a 50s/60s american muscle car and an electric vehicle or euro mini.
What worries me about buying something like a quad cortex instead of a tube amp is the tech evolving like other electronics and it being useless in a few years because the software stops being updated for the unit. I’ve got a Vibroverb that is highly sought after and sounds incredible. Modelers try to emulate this amp but this amp will be around after me and still sound incredible.
I think this all really just depends on the gig/band you’re in. It’s all situational and subjective.
In the hybrid set up, what is connected into the HX stomp ? Guitar via a splitter or out of the amp somehow ?
I've been using a HX Stomp for about a year after moving from an Amp with a Captor X. Basically, for practice and a lot of the gigs it's just easier to hand off a DI that has your whole sound instead of micing the cab. After using it for awhile, I just missed the air moving. Recently got a Katana Artist combo and have been super happy. I can get a lot of the sounds I want, the weight is less and complexity is simpler, has DI out, etc. I can run it at 5W, 50W or even 100W (really never use it above 50) or even no sound. Is it the best sounding amp I have...nope...but it does sound good and has a lot of flexibility for a cover band.
What next Vinyl records, Cassettes and Petrol cars? In all seriousness, for low volume gigs (Corp Jazz / Pop stuff) give me a modeller and in ears any day of the week.
As a Player and as a Listener, I prefer amps on stage .
The higher the watts the less they need to be opened and they just have much more headroom and "size".
Same goes for cabinets, 2-12s are great 4-12s are better. the watts are spread into 2 or 4 speakers and it is actually quieter right in front of the amp.
Its not about volume, its more about spreading it around and making it the least "Direct" sounding possible.
With small amps all the power/volume is projected in a straight direction and act very much like a Spot light.
You have to be directly in front of them to be able to "understand" what they are outputting.
And even a 30-40 watt single speaker amp will end up louder in front of the amp than a 212 50w or a 412 100w. do the math...
The player will actually end up adding more volume and will be asked to lower the volume down because he has the amp pointed directly at the sound guy... been there so many times...:-)
BTW, I have been using modelers before (Fractal FM3, Tonex), and people would approach me saying I'm not being heard... I felt that too...
I mean, Not having an amp or monitor and being heard at the front of the stage at the same time...
Every other day I see another famous guitar player presenting his new - purely modeler - rig
It has a lot of advantages, but from listening to live recordings of those bands the guitar sound did definitely not get better.
I guess everyone has their own choices or preferences.
Maybe Kyle should just look at a Fractal VP4, FM3/FM9 to use with his amps. The effects alone are amazing. Any could be used to the front of the amp or 4 cable. FM3/FM9 could go straight to FOH. He gets all the options and tons of flexibility without managing a pedal board, switching pedals on and off, often wishing there was some effect you don't currently have on it.
I play rhythm in a punk band and do a lot of local shows in very small venues. I probably don't need this much power, but I run a Victory V130 into a Marshall 1960A 412. A lot of the places we play don't have the best PAs or monitoring (or no monitors in a lot of cases) so I feel it's honestly worth hauling it around.
I really prefer multi speaker amps, they just sound more open. Vibroluxe over a deluxe every time. Enough watts to maintain clarity, headroom and openness, 35ish range. Don’t buy that 15 watts is all you need silliness. Sometimes low watts works, right up to the point you run out of headroom. I went to a multi-band indoor festival and most guys were using low watt, high dollar amps and it was a mudfest. One dude pulled out a twin stuffed into a 2x10 combo and it was glorious without being noticeably louder than the smaller amps
For 4x12, most heavy rock, hardcore, punk, and metal shows are still full of them. Especially DIY shows in basements, etc.
If you’re playing a basement/party show where you’re not running guitar through the PA, you’re totally right about 4x12’s. Or even big 2x12’s. It fills the room more with the sound, and it will get above the drums nicely. I still believe that the experience of a group of people making acoustic noise together in a room cannot be beat. It’s not even necessarily about the sound- it’s about the cohesive energy and feeling. In-ears or ear plugs are just a reality now that we understand the effects of excessive exposure to high volume. But for me and the kinds of bands I love, I cannot fathom rocking out and making noise with all the sound coming strictly through little ear monitors. That takes away at least 50% of the entire experience. I can’t imagine being in a punk band and feeling zero sound on stage aside from a kick drum.
Made the switch as well, I just got a monoprice 1x12 to leave at church, just bring my pedalboard (hx stomp + analog drives) and head back and forth, I like the feel of it better than the powered speaker I was using, and I end up playing better.
I find that modulation effects jump out a little better through the cabinet, (I have never liked vibrato until now) and delays/verbs seem to lose that "pristine" quality to the repeats. Now, that can get muddy if you're not careful, but when dialed right, the speaker seems to help get delays/verbs smooth together in the mix; I guess you could achieve the same effect in the helix by putting the cab/ir last in the chain.
I've got a bunch of presets set up for the amp and versions of the same presets for internal modeling, so I haven't completely abandoned modeling, I like having the option.
Old School feel via.a great tube amp is hard to replicate at volume. I'm with you man.
Idk man it's SO close already and the tech is only going to get better. I'd wager within 5-10 years (if not sooner) modeling tech will be at a point where there is virtually no discernable difference whatsoever in feel/response/tone between tube amps and modelers.
Lately I've been contemplating an HX->EHX 44 mag->1x12 compact rig as its tough to beat a modeler if you're a sucker for effects.
I use my Quad Cortex in the theatre but the ship has 4 Mesa Boogie alone Star specials the ones with the EL84 tubes (valves). So I use the amps in the various pubs and clubs. The theatre is an in ear gig only and I have to say I love just in ears. We set up our own mixes through an aviom system.
In my experience with modelers so far, compared to tube amps... the louder you amplify a modeler, the worse it sounds, but a real amp generally sounds better the more you turn it up!
I'll rehearse at low volumes with a modeler and my FR12, and it sounds pretty good, but when I turn it up to gig volume (playing loud heavy rock) it starts to sound not so great.
BTW I play at small bars around Southern California and never come across a "silent stage". Everyone around here uses amps, and it's not uncommon for people to have 4x12 cabs. Actually I saw one guy playing a Fractal, but he was amplifying through a 4x12 Marshall cab! :D
I'm loving the, "People ask what I do for a living", jokes. Makes me howl.
I tilt my amp towards the ceiling by using a spray paint can as an amp stand from the rear. Works really well, then I always bring my own personal sennheiser 609 and lay it on side cone of the speaker and be done with it. that way people in the front as well as the front of house doesn’t get blasted.
Have you tried the Laney Lionheart Loud Pedal by any chance? That would give you a clean amp platform that can go to both a cabinet and front of the house. It would remove the amp head out of the equation. My main issue with modelers seems to be the FRFR most of the times. I feel there's some "glue" that happens when you go out of an actual cabinet, especially as you raise the volume. A guitar speaker can't replicate all the frequency at all volumes the same way an FRFR is supposed to. So the bell curved eq that is natural to a guitar speaker as it gets louder seems to at least one of the missing things.
I tested sending the left channel to an FRFR and right channel (without cab sim) to the amp in of a katana amp. At low volume they sounded pretty much identical but you could tell there was more "glue" in the katana. As I raised the volume it became much more evident that there was something dry about the FRFR sound.
Meanwhile, piano players be like "I never gigged a real piano in my life. Still alive."
I play in a blue/rock bar band and use a peavey classic 50 4/10 its heavy as a tank but I can keep the stage volume just loud enough to keep up with the drums and not over power everyone else. Unless I want too.
@@greggaravet4932 That is a back breaker. Does it sound similar to a Bassman?
There are certain nuances you get from an amp that no modeller can achieve. Yes, Joe Soap public can rarely tell the difference. However, one’s playing confidence depends on how satisfied you are with the gear you’re using. The interaction between the hands, the guitar, the amp and one’s ears. It’s a very tactile and personal thing.
I picked up one of the UA Dream 65 modeler pedals, and it is pretty good and modelers/amp sims have come a long way no doubt.. but man the real thing is just always a better and more visceral experience imo. I'll be buried with my OG 1965 deluxe reverb because of that
My latest set up is Amp on stage plus UA Lion going into PA for a bit of extra umph. Works for me 👍
"He's from up North but that's fine"
I saw John McLaughlin play Ronnies and he didn't use an amp, just DI'd with some bonkers effects. It sounded wack. Amps are better for audiences IMHO, music colleges have a lot to answer for. Silent stages solve a problem nobody had apart from the soundman - that he didn't have 'complete control'.
Really great points. Silent stage has been the bane of guitar players since it all started.
Seems like when the bluguitar amp x comes out it will fulfill a lot of your requirements. Go direct, go to cab, or do any combinations. Many levels of gain available and the basic effects covered. All in one box
@@tonystartup3817 When it comes out. I think we’ll eventually see it but the hype train left the station a bit too early on that ones.
@@tonystartup3817 When it comes out. I believe we’ll see it at some point but the hype train left the station a bit too early on that one.
I don't think it's far off. Thomas is gigging his one to shake out the bugs now
I love amps, but for me to hit their sweet spot they need to be pretty loud. I also really enjoy the tones I get with my HX Stomp and Fender FR-10. I can even get good feedback with that combination.
@@trickfall8752 Feedback and general “aliveness” - Same here using an FR12 or monitor wedge pointed back at me.
Do you find you miss the bigger speaker/cab going to the 10”? I’m tempted to pick one up due to the super low weight and compact size. It’s a little lighter but MUCH smaller than the 12”.
@@erickuehnl No, it actually has more thump than my open back combo amps. I also haven't felt like I couldn't keep up with my lead player who uses a 70's Marshall JMP through a 4X12. This is in an old school punk/hard rock kind of band.
I have a pretty unique experience tbh I have never once used an amp for live performance. Everything has always been modeller straight to front of house for as long as I’ve been playing professionally (2019-ish). I play about 110+ shows a year that way and I’ve never thought anything of it tbh. I’ve never been a big gear guy but lately I’ve been getting the itch to get an FRFR or a pair of FRFRs to use on stage for some volume to see how it is. I don’t know what im missing ya know? Also I have a shit load of really nice theatre/casino gigs next year that have insane back lines so I’m planning on doing stereo modeller to FOH with IRs and stereo out without IRs (put with my modeller acting as a pre amp) to the FX return of a pair of Marshall half stacks. I’m the only guitarist in the band and I think it would be cool to:
-have some extra sound on stage (air being pushed)
-it will look fucking cooler than hell
For me it’s both but 90% the modeller live as it just works in more situations for me (and 100% modeller at home). Studio I go for an amp. The thing is - modeller doesn’t have to equal silent stage. I use a fender fr10 when I use it on most gigs except the touring theatre shows I do then I go IEM’s (which I hate but hey). I hardly ever get to play with another guitarist so that something 😢. In an ideal world I’d be able to use one of my Victoria amps at the ideal level and a bunch of pedals, but that ideal world rarely exists unfortunately.
I think you're missing a huge advantage of FRFR... multiple IRs for multiple unique speaker tones 😊
I went from a Peavy 5150 and 4x12 to Marshall Studio vintage and marshall 4x10 with pedals, and then to a friedman WW20 and 1x12 and pedals. When Fractal came out I used AX8 but stayed with Amp for gigs. Then Boss Katana 100w as power amp for FM3 , but seemed to dark and couldnt get it dialed in. I am now using the same Friedman WW20 and an FM9 for effects through Return, and 1-2 drives in front of the amp which worked really well. After all of the updates to the firmware I tried the FM9 , bypassing the Cab block to the return from out 3, and using Out1 w/Cab block to FOH. The 5150 tone was massive and was great when I was younger and bigger venues. While using the friedman as the power amp and FM9 sounded very good , and was very versatile for cover material, I was still missing something that using the Friedman amp and 1x12 , with FM9 effects had. Natural feedback for one , and would cut better. I still will continue to try and get the tone I hear at bedroom levels right out of the FM9, especially dumble tones. Thanks John, really enjoyed the video!
Yet to see you use the Stereo Blackstar "katana/catalyst" as solid state power amp with the HX Stomp. - The blackstar IDCORE 100 is loud, compact... and stereo or wet dry 🙂
How do you singing guitarists feel about monitoring. The tension is that I prefer a wedge for instruments (and other vocalists) but in-ears for my vocals. Anyone deal with this and find a compromise? I wish there was an ear solution which allowed mixing of outside ambient sounds (like iPods pro) with the direct from desk sound.
I'm down with real amps on stage. The problem now is... How to get what the amp sounds like into my IEM !! Help please !!
I still think the spread are overlooked in this context. A guitar amp with e.g. Celestion speaker, only sounds great in some spots, typically where the guitarist stands. But the audience get a completely different sound. This is where the FRFR excels. And with a live drummer, i do think that backgear is needed om smaller places, otherwise it sounds like the drummer is isolated and the rest of the band is in some sort of fase hell from the speakers placed to the left and right of the scene.
The decision of amp/frfr/in-ear, should always have the audience in mindt.
Next video idea” Why I’m buying only JHS pedals from now on”
"He's from up north but that's fine" 🤣
I don't enjoy the church gigs where I'm going direct with in-ears, but it's necessary and better then being told to turn the amp down lower than speaking volume (a pignose is too loud? It is our building) I'll still use an amp though if I feel that the sound person isn't experienced enough to set levels well.
For non church gigs were volume isn't as much of a concern I'm going amp all the way.
I have had a few shows require no amps. I currently have a Tonemaster Pro/FR10 for those if/when they occur. Otherwise I generally use a Mesa Fillmore 25 combo or a Fillmore 50 combo, depending on my mood. The 50 isn't necessarily louder, tone is different. My band mic's everything to FOH and to our IEM sever/system. We are sensitive to volume and my back is sensitive to weight !!!
I tried going direct several times. It sounded great at home and was lacking tonally and feel-wise once out on the gig. I'm not the kind of person that is into going into a preset and tweaking things. I felt kind of like my hands were tied and couldn't get into it. I'd rather reach down and turn a knob and be done with it. You can also interact with an amp if you like playing with feedback. I'm not so sure you can do that with a modeler. I've had a few sound guys say that I was too loud with an amp and told me I was no longer in the mix. Sorry, my amp doesn't sound good until it's really working. My compromise was to go out with a small watt amp and mic it if I needed to.
i use a single marshall 4x12 run stereo with vhtd50 and quilter superblock US. stereo allows for less "beaming" and if one amp dies i have a backup amp already plugged in and running (wont be stereo if one amp dies but its better than the whole rig going down). best rig ive ever had and 4x12 really aint that big when compared to any 2x12
I just use whatever vocal wedge is in front of me to monitor my guitar. I have a nice Friedman setup at home but it just doesn’t make sense for bar gigs.
I still use a 100 watt head and a 4x12. I also use a two notes torpedo captor X. Problem solved.
For smaller gigs I have a 1x12. I also have a Kemper.
Use what fits the gig. But you don’t have to go digital.
Let's not forget that in 4 or 5 years tops your top modeller/profiler will be outdated, nearly obsolete and with a resale value of probably 1/3 of what you've paid for. Whereas for a top valve amp that length of time means nothing, and in many cases will appreciate instead.
Head be spinning
He states that he uses an HX Stomp to go to an amp, as well as FOH. How is that done?
i definatley prefre the reala amp sound. i play bass for my live gigs and it just feels better for everyone, i use the helix lt into the pa and the sound i get is flat , being in regional australia venues are a behind the rest of the world so live amps are still ok
Can't wait for the "Why I switched back to modelers" video in February 😂. I'm sorry John, but you and Rhett Shull are by far this worst with this clickbaity cork-sniffing nonsense in the RUclips guitar community. I stick around because I enjoy listening to your playing, but come on dude
I got rid of everything. I just have a Blackstar HT20. All that other stuff like chorus, reverb, etc gets lost when playing live.
One day is black , next day is white , God Save the ClickBait!!!
Every gigging guitarist I know has switched back to real amps live, again, after much trial and error. Back to the standard guitar/pedalboard/amp...
Seems most guitarist just want a light combo pedal platform
That sounds great at all volumes , an IR loader for pa and recording and a headphone jack for practice
There a billion products out there but not this seemingly simple thing
the soundperson's job is to capture what's happening onstage and bring it to front of house. it's not my fault if they're incompetent.
Amps are preferrable, but modelers are cool for home use with sleeping kids and wife ❤😂
Because you are still relatively young and your back is still ok after lifting Heavyweight Amps...or found someone who carries it to the club for you 😅😅
Love my fender deluxe to pieces… not into digital BS
What a sweatshirt
The problem with amps is they sound so raw and animalistic, borderline uncontrollable even, they run counter to everything that groundbreaking guitar playing is about.
Comfy clothes for at home, dress clothes for going out. Just saving you a little time. 😁
A race to the bottom with silent stages imo. When I see these electric kits which looks like a real kit I shudder
E kits are fine for practice , just not for live . Imo
Amps are great but are just too loud. At the end i am happy with modelers
Hmmm....I don't really find IEMs that troublesome. Maybe its because I control the mix, but I find I get plenty of amp thump and sparkle with my IEMs. Its true that the experience of playing a loud amp is physically different....feedback, feeling the percussiveness of the amp, etc...but its just different, not qualitatively better....to me, anyway. YMMV.
Line6 HXFX with a real 5153 and the matching 1x12 or a Marshall 4x12 if I really want to go old school. Marriage made in heaven. Why try to get a modeler to try and sound like a real amp? Just use a real amp! lol One main tone is good enough for me. At home though, I love the Helix Native modeler.
This sounds like an interesting topic, but I really couldn’t care less 👍
I gigged using in ears and went back to speakers 👍 A HK Lucas Nano because I like Stereo.
Does a Katana count as a "real" amp?
No
If you enjoy it, yes. If you gig it and it sounds good, yes.
Its like Harley Benton. Casually drape a t shirt over the label....
Solid state amp with digital preamp voicings and effects into a real guitar loudspeaker.
If you don't need the Fender modeler, I could properly use it. I can DM my address, if you'd prefer to get rid of it.