My opinion on using a single handed sword with a reverse / icepick grip
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2016
- This is not supposed to be an expert analysis, just my personal thoughts based on my practice of historical European martial arts (medieval / renaissance sword fighting) so far.
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Развлечения
One thing you're forgetting... this grip makes it way easier to unscrew the pommel.
Exactly what i was thinking
what does that mean? sorry, just subbed to Skallagrim.
Alright, you won the internet today.
It would allow you to End Him Rightly. Find that video in Skall's stuff. It's...like...the best joke.
stop taking the meme so seriously .-.
Here's a question. How affective is the high ground in real combat
Doge Commissar it's very effective when you underestimate your enemies power.
Doge Commissar in fencing, not really, light sabers, meh, gladatorial, I guess, and 1v1 scrub, very
I fucking hate star trek
Depends? If you're fighting someone on, say, a slope or a staircase, whoever's lower has to worry about their head more, and whoever's higher has to worry about their legs/being grappled. Plus if there's anything to fall off of or get slammed into (like a banister) then that's a consideration.
yes very every tried running up a hill tiring and difficult running down is easier don't know much about sword but with guns your arms would get tired aiming up but aiming down is easy not to mention any cover is meaningless when they can see over it
I love the folks in the background who are just like "Yep, it's that sword guy again."
Lol!
The more I watch these sword fighting technique videos the more I realise shit was hard and people died fast LOL
Yeah same tought. You know when you dream to be born in medievil and kill everything with your trusty sowrd but you realize you'll die after two fights xD
When you think about it, most soldiers died because of infection instead of fatal wounds
Irl it was nothing like this. Soldiers just half-sworded with gauntlets and it was more grappling than anything else. These "cuts" wouldn't come close to penetrating the armor.
@@samuelbrice3699 forgot to mention that swords where not the primary weapon on the battle field
@@helgraf6976 Oh really? What was used primarily?
I usually switch to reverse grip when I run with scissors.
same
yeah that way then I fall they end up in my gut and not on the floor
sAy wHAAt?
Blood can be mopped up unlike scratches, so you save yourself some trouble. Just gotta be careful where those stomach acids go and avoid carpets.
you guys are all doing it wrong, just throw the scissors where you want them to be, and then catch up with them later
Good video. I always like your analytical approach. BTW, you left the 'b' out of 'biomechanically' at the end of the video.
The reverse grip is clearly more effective when fighting someone who is behind you. No need to turn around! Commonly used by French swordsmen when running away.
Apothecary Terry ESPECIALLY for French swordsmen
Amazing comment
Are you Lindybeige in disguise?
Lmao
thank you for the laugh
I had a nasty accident a few years ago and lost a lot of the function in my hands. Consequently, the standard grip has been left unusable to me in any practical scenario. I've been working real hard to try and develop a reverse grip style that works for me, and my limitations. I've had some interesting ideas, but no one to run them by. Thanks for demonstrating some usable techniques, like that party. I really appreciate it!
Any success since then? 😀
5:36 PM
2/22/2020
Pls do a video about your sword style
yasss
Hope things have improved buddy.
The best advice I could give is that reverse grip tends to work best for smaller blades like daggers. Perhaps dual-wielding reverse-grip daggers would work for you?
Moral of the story: Stop trying to be Starkiller, and pick up a tonfa.
Or go dual wielding with the secondary with a short blade and reverse-grip
fren6363 Ahsoka reference?
@@allenp_07 I've never watched those series, I know shes the padiwon of anakin but I didnt know she was dual wielding let alone one reverse grip and length size difference
It’s best used alternating between the grips, but of course to practically implement that you would have to practice swinging then alternating to reverse quickly.
@@fren6363 go watch the show dude. It's the best star wars that you'll ever see.
A big mistake, it is the perfect grip, with the pommel facing up, it seems like it would be much easier to unscrew it, and your hand is already in a better position to throw faster and stronger to end them rightly since it doesn't have to move as much. This grip can make a lethal blow even more quicker and deadly. Just my 2 cents
n00b, the standard grip is far superior because it allows you to unscrew the pommel while obscuring the movement with your blade. With the reverse grip the opponent can see immediately that they're about to be ended.
Yeah you n00b
But if they already realise, that their extermination is imminent you can let them linger in fear.
unless you do the mind tricks, like move your sword with your off hand close to the pommel pretending that you are using some short of sophisticated technique when in fact you are unscrewing your pommel while you are moving your sword. So I would call the words of sir Toth, words of a Genius!
That aside I think that you should try cutting from the opposite direction from the one you are defending as it seems to me as the only mechanically viable way to attack from that grip. Still though, it remains as an "end em rightly grip"
0NBalfa0 This....this weapon can never make it into government hands. Quick, delete comments, we've gone too far.
They look like crabs walking around fighting for territory
You just made my day. Thanks!
and mine, haha, xaxa, 5555,
😂😂 nice one
😂😂😂oh god my sides....
+King Ragnar what language is that I Wonder ?
Your evaluation is much better than others I have seen recently. The reverse grip with a sword is more tenable utilizing circular movement and footwork, confined spaces and close quarters where you are unable to get a practical distance for the blade length. Works better for curved blades than straight
“Thrusting here, is kind of tricky”
2:13
The slow look to the camera
It's great XD.
Con: Limited
Pro: You do look like a badass.
XD
It reminds me the sword fight of the movie "Equilibrium". Total badass.
Star Wars Force Unleashed II is all I am saying. ;)
That was a tonfa.
Gangstas do hold pistols sideways. So i guess a medieval gangsta would use icepick grip lol
+O'Dubhagain the force unleashed lightsaber wasnt, unless youre referring to what the first reply was, im sure that person is a kiiiiiiller, kiiiiiller
1:34 anyone else see the chick dabbing in the back?
and I feel like this sword style is meant for countering and getting aggressively close to them. making it hard for them to hit.
OMG XDDDD
Good catch haha
^what the fuck?
Lol
Hans, grab flammenwerfer.
Reverse grip is useful for duel wielding, grappling, and for covering your back under *certain conditions*. Its rarely employed in practical combat like you said, but I actually find it easier to do this when fighting with your non-dominant hand for some reason.
Nah, reverse grip is better cuz style points
Gotta go out in style if you want to live longer.
But I think standard grip is cooler though... unless it’s a dagger of course then it’s super badass
I like when they use both mixed in, it just looks really good at least.
Reverse grip makes it easy to get at the pommel though.
Good point.
No, silly, the point is on the side.
Actually this made think... you could just straight punch someone while blocking with the sword. XD
***** open hand let's you do more than punch though, you can grapple, throw things(pommel), or even parry if you got a gauntlet or are crazy.
looked to the comments for this, was not disappointed :)
I'm definitely not trying to defend this sword usage, because it doesn't make sense in most situations, and Hollywood just uses it for flair, but I wonder if this actually might help with "dual wielding". Use the right arm normally, and the left defensively with this reverse grip. May not be historically accurate, but it's the only justification I can think of for this grip with a sword. Of course a shield would negate the need for even that.
With short swords it could be a good way to hide it in ambush situation. Hold it behind and attack with one sword normally, see how it goes. Then you have options of either blocking as you say, reversing the grip back to normal for dual wielding, or attacking with reversed blade in close distance for element of surprise. Still, kinda far-fetched.
That's probably the best way to duel wield two swords, just turn one into a shitty shield.
According to Skal, dual wielding was used mostly with short swords, I'm sure it's easier to use this grip with shorter blade. :))
Andy Westfall Yeah that was basically my thoughts, but it would be a shitty shield that could slash at an exposed neck or something if you parried
GmTy Yeah basically it was, there was a type of gladiator, who dual wielded two gladiuses (gladii?) the dimarchaerus, and even then it was super rare and only used in certain matchups. I still don't think it would work that well, daggers yes, maybe short swords like you say... but the poor parrying and counter attacks make it not very viable
Don't Insult Ahsoka's Fighting style.
Conrado Javier I thought of Ventus from Kingdom Hearts BBS cause lightsabers slice most crap anyway so as long as you touch them at all your fine :P
Starkiller too
Weeb trash.
Tisamon since when is Star Wars considered anime?
Indiana Jones It is not like there is an exact definition of anime, the clone wars is often considered anime.
You've got a fabulous RUclips channel; Mainly because of your in depth subject knowledge and your ability to narrate as you demonstrate.
Personally, I have had no teaching regarding armed melee and infinitesimal martial arts training. I still feel that ones footwork and distance between opponents play a heavy part in one's ability to acquire victory in martial combat matches/sparring.
You video gives me more understanding of the armed martial arts and the vast amounts of possibilities that are there.
Regardless, this is a very good RUclips channel.
2:11 the look on his face when you said thrusting is tricky
Nothing
Two years later, still hella funny..
The unwillingness to start an attack when using the reverse grip is really telling. Not sure whether this is due to the limited amount of practice or just the grip itself.
I would imagine it's a bit of both.
I found that using reverse grip is more defensive then offensive and even using it well you would still switch grip several times during the melee I've never seen anybody viably use reverse grip through an entire sword fight
I wouldn't say it's defensive, as in "is advantageous for the defender", but it has fewer disadvantages while defending, so you naturally tend to do just that.
i can see this being somewhat useful in armoured fighting, 'causee then you have more incentive to get in close.
+World's Biggest Booty Hoes pretty sure they show it with daggers tho
I'm actually impressed that is viable and can parry, I was expecting it to be completely destroyed and debunked
Giovanny Linares um find videos of people who are well practiced with it. You won’t balk at it then. It’s potential is tornado of cuts. Not to mention it gets you very close to them. Your judging this as if your expecting it to work at normal fencing distance. The limit is left at skill and practice.
I shouldn’t have watched this debacle of an explanation. Also the blades balance plays a major role. I get the feeling you didn’t really research this well. Plus it’s more commonly used with a shorter sword in the other hand. Ahhhh.... it’s like your forcing content for your channel. Seek demonstrators who are trained also. Looks like neither of you have picked up a sword hardly at all.
@@1014p holy shit man. you are upset as hell.
It seems defensive in its design.
It's not really a combat stance so much as a transitional stance. You don't rush into combat with an inverted blade and a naruto stance. XD
If however in a fight you are able to transition to it, it can be viable in the right situation. You need good finger dexterity though to be able to flip the blade.
It isn't when you put any muscle into it it takes way more strength. He doesn't cover that part. Anyone saying otherwise need to stop watching RUclips videos and playing video games and try doing it in real life. I'd challenge any of them is really love to see it.
This is my oppinion as a person studying malay sword style and also a little bit of HEMA.
First, reverse grip is used with medium sized sword with no cross guard. Cross guard hinder the proper reverse grip movement.
Second, reverse grip is intended to be used for close range and in cramped placed where using normal grip is not effective.
Third, you dont block with reverse grip. Instead, you counter an attack with parry and try get closer in range to cut.
Noted that asian martial arts such silat like to be in closer range so that we can grapple and do many silat's lock. So, reverse grip is more suitable with asian martial arts compared to HEMA.
CQB, precisely.
Think Zatoichi-
Funnily i never used a sword so when me and my friend used wood log stick things in class as swords, i held it in a reverss grip bc it felt natural to me more so than standard, and he had experience with fencing and i kept up with him and we were fighting like normal (it hurt sure but it was fun) and i was able to beat him a decent amount bc i dont fight like you would normally bc i would grab the blade when necessary bc in my eyes a small or even deep cut to the hand isnt much if it means you win and he was like the "the fuck why are you grabbing it? That means ur hand would be cut" and i said "its still attached no? So that means its fair game, and a normal tactic some people used as either support or to advance an attack" im not wrong if i were like inches from a knife going into my stomach i would grab my blade and push it the other sword back or as mine collided with his, id grab the blade to hold him in place a few seconds to give me the edge ik it wouldn't work in alot of cases but it wouldnt hurt to try
Zatoichi movies are some of my favorites and my most favorite swords are also Zatoichi Shirasaya swords than regular katanas. They are sleek, natural looking like a cane and very concealed. I also like the reverse grip with fast counter style of Zatoichi. I am getting a good custom made Zatoichi sword with my own measurements which is a bit shorter than a regular katana. I will practice this style with a wooden one. BTW your post is really on point about this style and its usage.
lmao
Fundamentally longswords and katanas are the same in technique when when used in sparring or real combat. Outside of knives or off handed short blades; reverse grip is a completely ineffective style.
You'd need to be incredible fast and have a short enough blade to make good use of that grip. Seems like it'd work much better if you were going ballistic as to never let your opponent make distance.
A skilled opponent can always create distance. Even if someone rushes in aggressively, lateral movement can really mess with that.
the limited range is a problem, if you added grapples, punches and kicks and kept the opponent off balance it would work. but it still sacrifices range and a lot of defence. id love to show the guys at blood and iron alternate techniques.
Actually, that comment about the boxing style with two ice-pick grip knives is pretty similar to something Skal said on an older video of his, about the fantasy knives used by Riddick... essentially, if you practiced a particular kind of martial art that focused on these sorts of knife techniques and grappling / striking, it could actually be very effective... but you'd have to invest the time into the training
id actually like to see someone thats good with the style, or they could dual wield and do both grips
+Das Carlin (Legacy of Wasted Time) ive had some practice with this style of fighting. Cant say how good i am seeing as i have no one to spar with.
But... but you didn't use TWO swords though.
that'd be even worse lol
Lenny Is A Tomato Perhaps so, but I generally see the reverse-grip used with dual wielding
Yeah that's the only occasion I've seen the reverse grip being used. Which makes some sense I think. Because most people wouldn't be skillful enough to do a full dual wield. But using it as an improvised main gauche would require less skill and _might_ give you some more defense.
Still, its not much effective. As he said, it really limit your reach, so if your ennemie have a rapier. You will be fucked so hard.
john doe I do also see one reverse grip, and one standard grip a lot. Generally with Japanese weapons
Damn Starkiller has a strange beard in this game.
The reverse grip seams more viable if one is pushing in towards the opponent with a defense and counter. In my opinion, it looks like it works best when you're trying to limit the usable distance of the blade without compromising your own mobility.
There are a few CMAs that use reverse grip sword, but they are meant to defend and counter in really tight spaces where cutting is limited and most play is reduced to thrusting, like hallways, boats, etc. The idea is to block/parry off center line and counter with a reverse grip up cut or thrust. Fell out of favor when butterfly swords appear in southern china, they are also mainly used with a reversed grip.
The people in the park must be like "Fucking nerds. They aren't even using their pommels."
I really appreciate that you said, "...I'm not trying to debunk this kind of grip just by showing that I'm not good with it."
I think a lot of people assume that every skill can be taught once in a single class and then retains the same level of effectiveness from then on out. ex. Being able to use a pencil or a mouse or a bicycle requires years of practice.
At the same time, I'm glad you test your theories with a friend. Watching two folks experiment, even at a controlled slower laboratory conditions pace, is really educational to watch.
In a nutshell
They do it because it's cooler and exciting
They don't care about usability
But you did a great job in explaining it's weaknesses and strong points
teknomogul Bud, the time to shut the fuck up is now. Do not make the powers that be make your work
@teknomogul I smell cap
Luke Simms me too.
@@lukesimms2392 same
@TEKNOMOGUL
Lol.
Butthurt weeb getting mad trying to defend anime fighting styles.
There's a reason why swords are held the way they are:
Looking cool isn't going to win the fight and keep you alive.
I love how you never get TOO serious in your vids. You genuinely have fun and enjoy yourself. Please dont ever change that, for hour sake and ours.
Ive been a subbie on this channel for about 1 1/2 years now. I subbed for info on swords and stuff, but now i find myself coming here more for your light-hearted and fun personality...and the awesome accent XD
Keep up the good work m8!
Your* sake. stupid phone lol
Thank you. :) Don't worry, this is how I've always done things and it's not going to change.
***** Well I hope not. Ive seen many a YTer get to caught up in the seriousness of being a YTer. They get less fun, some of em get straight up depressing.
But this...this is the fun Oasis in the creeping desert of YT.
Thanks for the reply Skall! I hope your not still in pain or anything. Ik its been awhile since the injury, but ik from experience that time doesnt equal a 100% recovery.
well obvuously you use the grip wrong, it is intented to be used with a katana in order to cut steel :P
very stupid
Katana is a 2 handed sword
unless your reference is from movies or anime
Araria K
Do you know what a joke is?
+Araria K the katana was a one handed weapon used with a shield.
in Japan, after 200 years of peace, warriors just used it as a 2H weapon because they never carried shields anymore.
the fact that samurai used maces, despite the fact that NO-ONE used katanas in the battlefield reinforces this.
Samurais started off as horse archers originally so there basically was no shield required from the beginning. Their sword is also made to be used two-handedly for the greatest effect. I suppose that in the japanese style of fighting, a shield would only be a hinderance.
even tho its two handed......its actually used both ways......single and double.....but the usually style is two handed.....but each samurai has his own style.....
When the katana was used single handedly, the off hand usually held a shorter sword for additional firepower and defence. But never a shield
WITH REVERSE GRIP you will kill your wrist first before get some scratch on enemy
+Araria K +Araria K chivalry archers were Mongolian.
SOME samurai used horses, but the standar battle formation was a dense infantry group.
they were really good archers, that's true.
they can be compared to English bowman in that aspect.
and did you just said "extra sword for more firepower"?
that's just silly.
by the way, samurai never used reversed grip in the recorded history.
Its used to kill titans, and another blade for dual wield xd
Lmao, levi reference
And maybe occasionally some military police
Exactly 😂
It is fantasy and all, but the idea of spinning with one sword being held with a reverse grip seems weird, on one hand(pun wasn't intended), it's comfortable for swinging to one direction with two swords, but on the other hand(again), I don't think you could put much power into the swing
SHINZOOO WAAAA SASAAAAGEYOOOOOOO!!!!!!
skallagrim : proving anime impractical since 1456
Still lying about me.
I think there is a reason why most of the time when you see this style used it's with a either a short sword or a dagger. The reverse grip gives you a lot of power to your blows and stability in your defense. Not to mention most times this style is seen used it's in duel wielding and usually in the off hand. I don't think it's the ideal way to hold a blade in most situations but it is effective in a few with the normal grip in the main hand offsetting a lot of the limitations. Plus it's 'a weird' and unusual style, perfect for doing the unexpected moves against your enemy.
Dual wielding, in general, is usually inferior to simply two-handing a single sword. It's not easy to control both limbs in that manner, and the amount of force that two hands can deliver overpowers what a person can do with one. The reverse grip only makes that worse. If a person slashes down at you with a two-handed grip and you try to defend with a dagger in a reverse grip, you will likely get a huge gash in that hand, because the small dagger will not be enough to cover the rotational energy of the one blade swinging at you.
So that means you have to dodge, or use your main hand. If you dodge successfully, great. But you'll only likely get one attack in, which would also be more effective if using a two-handed grip. If you use your main hand, you have a chance of getting pushed back and staggering.
Now, imagine if, instead of that reverse grip dagger, you had a shield. The sword comes at you, with one hand you block, you can push them back, and then go in for an attack. You can still dodge, you still have two "weapons", and if you need to parry with your main hand, you can back it up easier with the shield.
Like Skal said, it's possible, but all the time investment in getting that good where you can use a reverse grip weapon effectively is probably wasted. You could have been spending it using more conventional weapons, and improving your edge alignment, endurance, raw strength, or tactics.
@@jeremiahbell6129 I don't think you understand what parrying Daggers are for
Kinda late for the comment, but could the reverse grip be perfect for curved blades like scimitars? Just curious
@@scottmcconnell9211 I think it would actually be worse. The curve further limits range and makes it more likely you would stab yourself. Just use a shield in your off hand. Better yet, a shield with a spike.
@@scottmcconnell9211 only good for parrying daggers on offhand, and best with a rapier on the main hand
I have seen it used in fighting with a forearm length machete in confined quarters on trawler ships by Filipino sailors.
saun lee coetzee I wanna hear the story for this one.
I can believe that.
Shorter blades lens themselves to icepick grip better than longer swords.
the reverse grip is best used for dagger or short swords (I know you said this) but they are common place used against a sword breaker and one normal shorter sword so the reverse grip is either to make an opening for dagger or short sword as a finishing blow or on many opponents
reverse grip is a posture that requires an aggressive mindset and is most useful with an adjusted sense of timing. As a defensive posture when receiving an attack rather than, guard, advance, and counter attack you should advance, counter attack, and guard. The hands and forearm are excellent targets, swords of the same length expose the same targets regardless of grip posture. As an offensive posture it can be very limited due to the reduced threat range. Creating an opening by beating your opponents weapon to the side can be quite effective. I also find reverse grip to be fairly effective against pole arms. At least as effective as a sword can hope to be against polearms.
Yes, reverse grip is for aggressive, close in, grappling/hooking/slashing. It's a high stakes tactic used it to throw off the balance/cadence of your opponent to finish a fight quickly through unconventional maneuvering.
I love the reverse grip but I can't justify it on swords. I really like dagger mechanics with reverse though
Very nice video, enjoyed the sparring part a lot. Very informative. And the limited reach and angle of attacks seem to make it solely defensive and close quarters.
My suggestion when using it is to have like a boxing stance and do quick jabs also a figure 8 swing is pretty decent with this.
Problem is that a figure 8 swing doesn't really pack much of a punch.
You have almost no strength with almost any slash using a reverse grip.
Yes, you have access to a powerful downward thrust, but the trouble is getting to a point where you can put it into play.
You wanna do "quick jabs"? Do it in standard grip. It's called a thrust and it's incredibly effective.
I like your videos it allows me to geek out with my friend about swords
That looks way too awkward to be effective.
he said it had some effective strikes but far less
Henbot I got that, it just looks really awkward to use.
He hasn't practiced with that grip at all I suspect, which is making it far more awkward. If he was well-practiced with that grip it would be more elegant.
EDIT 1: Silly me hitting s instead of shift.
Venser's Prodigy agreed
well, think of it like, if you're right handed, and you use a sword in your left.... you'd look awkward too.this is actually a very effective wielding technique.... but it lends it's self more to defense. deflection, close quarters, and trapping than attacks..... but if you KNOW HOW to use it, it's actually pretty effective, not to mention, if using a shorter blade weapon, maybe even something not quite a full sword, but not a dagger, against a person with a long sword, in close proximity. the advantage is on you. being more nimble with a blade. and able to move a bit quicker
From my knowledge and experience, those who use ice-pick grip, use it for defense and not for simple killing. Though the ice-pick grip can be used to kill, but as you said it is very ineffectively for most forms and stances. A long time ago I dueled a man who was able to catch my sword and remove it using a technique with an ice-pick grip.
yea i also thought it was meant for defensive action, like how a police holds a nightstick
Yeah the ice pick grip is mainly used for super close quarters and requires a massive amount of training. Depending on the situation some will switch back to a conventional hold but doing so also requires quite a bit of training to get a smooth and efficient transition between holds.
If I see ice-pick I move in the opposite way of his weapon and rush in, staying at maximum range.
⦅orpseてhief derSadist well police nightsticks aren’t really ice pick method since their not blades and also they are more closely related to tonfa which is more of a gauntlet like weapon
How do you know what killing is like because I’ve been watching a bunch of HEMA videos and people are talking about fighting to the death and stuff I really wanna get into this sport but I’m a little scared
My favourite part of reverse grip is the ease to use the pommel as a brass knuckle. If you can blits and invade a guard it turns the advantage of having a longer weapon into a disadvantage. You can't use a longer weapon as effectively up close. It's especially effective with a like shield like a buckler
I'm glad that you are open to the style. I use a more unorthodox form of the reverse grip. Quick and aggressive with the blade behind the back until the first strike.
There is one use of the reverse grip that I know is actually useful and was used in medieval times, but it was not from the western use of swords and thus might have been something you hadn't been told about. Certain short swords like the Tonto in Japan were born on the mid back at a 45° angle. If you try to use a standard grip, pulling it out and attacking You have to flip it around to attack. But if you use a reverse grip, it comes straight out and across the opponents midsection
I think is more designed to be used in very close quarter combat. I can see it being more of an adaption in situation where your crawling around a lot especially if your crawling in a tunnel or a vent. Although if you did find your self in a situation where your cover is blown and you need to fight back you'd switch to a normal fighting stance.
I think it is good for very close range combat or confine space while standard grip can't easily maneuver. I remember reading a Wikipedia page talks about reverse grip for sword only appears in Japan Meiji restoration period because standard Katana was outlawed to carry around and sword become shorter and conceal in a cane. (Before that, the reverse grip is consider dishonor) I assume The reverse grip on European side is solely for dagger.
The only instance I've ever found a reverse/icepick grip useful is on drawing the blade from the sheath, ala Dennis Quaid in Dragonheart--you draw reverse, and immediately after blocking/parrying/whatever switch to a proper grip.
Then again, having the pommel up in the icepick grip makes it far easier to End Your Opponent Rightly.
2019 and I only just found my favourite channel ... well better late than never👌👌
maybe, when dual wielding swords, one hand would offer good defense with this grip
Doktor Dovakiin dual wielding swords lol
Doktor Dovakiin Sword and Dagger maybe, but never two swords.
Skallagrim himself has done a video on dual wielding swords. It has been done historically, albeit very rarely. Usually with a shorter sword in the off-hand.
Doktor Dovakiin I thought about that too.
Dual welding is incredibly effective. I often combine grips like this and spar with 2 different styles. I'm ambidextrous so it's definetely my best option. Even a novice can become much better at defending and countering with dual swords. And if that's not enough for you, their offensive capabilities are still really intimidating.
Would dual wielding short swords (one forward grip and one reverse) be viable? Im thinking the one in forward grip is offensive and the reverse grip would be for defence/counter attacking.
Iirc the Florentine Style includes a dagger in the offhand utilizing a reverse grip for parrying.
For dual swords you use your offhand as a parry and your main to attack, usually reverse grip because of movement. If you use reverse grip to parry, you open your chest most of the times if the hit's going from the opposite side of your offhand. You use the fact that your off is in a normal stance to parry because of that you have more movility and usually more options, and the reverse is just for slices and follow-ups
Imo the best dual wielding is one short sword with a forward grip and a gun in the other one
I know the style mostly from the old Japanese show Zatoichi. He use it defensively and for counter strikes. He's switch between one and two hands also.
How does the practibility change when you dualwield two swords with one in the normal grip and the offhand one in the reverse grip?
you can't use that grip in a big plain with an offensive mindset.
it's a heavily defensive grip, mostly used with another sword, or in closed spaces.
See why I said it's limited? People keep saying "it's for use in this and that very specific situation" (for which the standard grip works just as well) but it has severe weaknesses otherwise.
+Skallagrim the montante has clear disadvantages, yet in the right condition is a great weapon.
everything has a disadvantage skall.
It's not a really effective thing to do, but it might prove useful in that exact set of condition.
The difference between this and the Montante, is that there are pros to using the Montante (reach and momentum most notably). The reverse grip, by comparison offers virtually no advantages.
You are correct that every weapon has its pros and cons, but the reverse grip in particular (at least with regards to sword fighting) is pretty much a straight downgrade from the orthodox grip in every way, and offers no compensating advantages, just a (very) small handful of things it does as well.
+Stewart Keenan I totally agree, I can't use it, but that's just me biased by my knowledge.
maybe there is a swordsman out there that is versed and can actually show us a couple of techniques actually worth it.
again, most people couldn't use it, and I don't think there is anybody that can right now, but it might work in the right context.
It sounds at first like it might be good for closed spaces. where you haven't got room to swing a sword, however you could always move a hand onto the blade itself in a conventional grip.
With Sai about 50% of the techniques are reverse grip but it's a short stabbing weapon and the guard is designed so that you can easily swap to reverse grip.
Try holding it like a sai with your thumb around the guard on the top side of the blade (if you're using a 1 edged sword) and switching back and forth by twirling around the diagonal axis between the blade and the guard like you would a sai. that might be much more viable.
those are daggers
Sai are not really daggers. They have relatively blunt tips, and they're designed kind of specifically to be useful in reverse grip as well. It's not even really a traditional reverse grip. The pommel is hardened, and basically functions like an extension to your punching techniques, while the "blade" of the sai is used to guard and catch weapons.
As Death said, it really is its own thing. Sure, many knife techniques can be used with a sai, a sai is closer to a punch dagger, but with some of the best defensive capabilities of any weapon, bar a shield. Yes I consider shields weapons.
The backhand grip is best for a defensive secondary sword when you are inexperienced with duel swords. The natural angle of the blade allows for you to not have to focus as much on it’s angle and allows for an easy sideways sweep from your weaker side. It can also help to confuse your opponents, and can be crossed with your other blade to block strong attacks from something like a war hammer or battle axe (or even a spear/halberd) while having the easy downward thrust afterwards. I do not use it anymore since I am more precise with my left and standard grip is more effective, but I do say that it has a (small) place in sword fighting.
The reverse grip is supplementary, you switch between the standard and reverse grips depending on situations. Usually opening strikes switched (rotated at the apex of the swing, and brought back).
What about answering the question about how effective it is in a sword fight to fake being left handed at the same time your opponent is also secretly pretending to be left handed?
One of the classic blunders
What about a two-handed reverse grip, would it be better or worse?
Edit: Or how about using a sword that had a shorter blade/knife on the other end? That way you could use traditional (if limited) knife fighting skills along with the situational techniques of the reverse grip.
so, ive been practicing reverse grip, and ive gotta say, its not a fencing technique; reverse grip is mostly cutting and slashing. that being said, two handed sword grips are often used for cutting technques, and when i tried this myself, i found that you get more power over the limited motions produced by reverse grip (it takes a certain bit of flourish to get good momentum in this style, something you need to practice with the same dedication as standard grip). while i found the two handed grip to be effective for producing momentum in cramped circuimstances, its very limiting of range and angle.
I know it's 2019, but would it be possible to mix, like go between standard and reverse? I feel like mixing reverse and standard would come in use if timed well and practiced
That would be the most effective way to implement it, yes.
I trained a bit with reverse grip on a single edged sword and I agree with you. There were a few more advantages to reverse grip with a single edged sword that a double edge. I leaned to rest it along my forearm for certain blocks and cuts and because of that you can generate a lot of force on certain cuts but all in all wouldn't recommend it against someone who knows how to use a blade. Maybe effective against an extreme novice with some practice
I always felt the reverse grip works well with knives, shorter swords and a few blades with close quarters combat or stealth characters
Exactly.
Skall even mentions that icepick grip is pretty useful with knives.
It's just that it becomes a hindrance with longer blades.
Is this some kind of netflix adaptation of an anime I don't know about?
Yes it's called boku no pico
@@snek8930 Goku no Picollo
Good job guys. It’s nice to see you working on this.
Good leverage for the reverse grip is indeed its effectiveness in close quarters. But still, the length of the sword is a big factor. Using this grip is more effective for disarming but can only be very reliable if done in sync with your live hand. The grip is also used more on fending or deflecting the blows and moving fluidly with your footwork - coming in. Strikes can also be slashes going up then immediately coming down as you move. It’s good observation that you may be cut if you block a strike. However, you may prevent the upward direction of the other blade if you push down the flat of the other sword towards his body while you get in and move on the left side (but make sure you have your live hand holding his wrist).This concept is even more effective without a handguard and a curved sword like a katana. The concept is actually nothing different than the original grip but can be a real surprise once you switch. Good job. 👍👍
It's advantageous in escapes. So you are not caught up in fighting them but moving around or away while guarding as well.
Block with a reverse grip, if is not supported by your arm, is never ok.
If your opponent put his "strong" (near the guard) blade against your weak blade (the tip) your parry ever fails.
What if you switch between the two grips; Use reverse for defensive close quarter and as soon as there's space opening up you reverse back to normal grip? Could that be viable?
if you have the time to train with it that would be the best use of a revwrse grip on a full length sword.
switching grips isn't exactly instant. you might not have enough time to do it
Let It Gogu True enough, but I'm thinking someone who mastered switching could prob do it pretty fast, no?
with a knife or dagger, maybe. with a 1kg sword, not likely
Let It Gogu A shortsword?
What if you did reverse grip and offhand parrying dagger? Or against something like a spear, where the goal is to close in?
i feel as though reverse grip can come into play when purposly trying to attack your opponents sword in some diversion to knock it away and then stepping out of line at an akward angle. though yes, it does appear limiting
It seems like the style is more for faster people that are attempting to enter an opponent's guard while also parrying the attacks.
You're thinking in RPG terms i feel.
Then why not use a dagger?
So you think that harder and longer are better ?
The ice pick grip is pretty damn effective with a shorter blade like a knife or dagger, but no. Swords are simply not intended to be used that way. With a knife you maintain your effective speed and it's smaller so it doesn't get tangled up with your opponents blade, or worse your own arm.
Still the normal grip is better. In knife fightning normal grip is better in every aspect than reversed.
This guy: Reverse grip is very limiting
Attack on titan Levi: hold my grip
Exactly
If you cab spin at the speed of d
sound sure it's useful
you could do the same things with a standard grip most of the time
Uchiha sasuke entered the chat😂
Is it possible to strengthen the weaker parts of reverse grip by implementing a two sword technique? Dominant right hand with a long sword proper grip on the offense and reverse grip with non dominant left hand acting as a parry/counter or block?
What I work with when I’m playing around is one dagger/knife on reverse grip for parrying and blocking and the other on traditional grip for cuts and thrusts
can you test out the speed reduction of the naruto/sonic run next I think a high speed wind tunnel would suffice I'm asking for a friend whos going to area 51...
The biggest problem with the Naruto run is the fact that you're depriving your body of the use of your arms and legs as counter weights.
Everytime you pick up a leg and push off, your torso torques towards that leg. The arms swinging counter this torque, conserving energy and maximizing efficiency.
I wonder what loss of speed this would cause too.
It’s actually better to pump your arms, the faster you pump your arms the faster you run
Indeed, pumping is more areodynamic, as well as putting less strain on your body as a whole.
@@speakdino10 supposedly it's more aerodynamic, but the difference is that Ninja run faster than cars so drag is a bigger problem
@@saiyanfang1047 We don't have tails, the biggest counterbalance to our running is our arms. Otherwise we're wasting energy exerting our bodies to stay rigid during a run, as well as putting ourselves stupidly in danger in the event we trip over a rock and cannot thrust our hands out in time.
Chickens flap their wings when climbing up trees, they can climb almost completely vertical using just their feet and their wings. If they kept the wings behind their backs, they wouldn't have the lift and balance to exert forward(upward) momentum. The same can be said for humans, when you pump one arm forward, it helps create forward momentum on the other side of your body. This is why you don't pump your right arm with your right leg, you usually do one leg with the opposite arm thrusting forward.
When we pump our arms while running, it's like we're running on all fours. When we hold a weapon or a shield in a hand we're often jogging it with us, not keeping it in one position, because we're using the weight of the item to help stabilize and keep momentum.
how about normal grip on right hand while dagger or shorter weapon reverse grip in the left? will it work? cuz that's what I usually see used on game and such
i mean you mentioned it before that dual wielding is very difficult with the exact same sword
The reverse grip might stand a chance against standard grip in _very_ tight spaces (for example a ship's corridor).
The thrust is still way worse, but you do need less space to perform your slashes.
Also some niche techniques like attacking someone close to you directly from the scabbard.
But perhaps, the main thing, is that if you are used to fight with a dagger in this grip, and have no experience with a sword, you should be able to translate more of your skills.
What do you think of reverse grip with hook swords? I use the handle blades and pommels as sort of a fist weapon and have the hooked blades protect my arms. They are also available as a pick style weapon near my elbows in this stance. It reduces their range quite a lot but the sacrifice in range improves your guard and speed
I like the dudes walking by in the background. "Look at the larpers!"
I think it is not seriously a combat grip, more like an ocasional grip. For sample, to finish a severely hurted enemy on the ground it's more powefull in a stab through armor in order to stab the heart and give him some dignity to die, rather then cut his throat or stab his face (remembering his chest is covered by armor). That is what I think.
I think you have the right of it.
It has some limited, very situational uses that should not be ignored, but it is severely limiting for most combat purposes.
When I was training in Kuk Sool Won we had kata for reverse grip sword use and I was made to understand that this type of grip was far more defensive than offensive technique. Our bread and better was the standard grip but it was interesting that we did have applications for reverse grip and even a dual wield reverse kata. I never progressed far enough into weapons to learn more about that so I can only speculate that such techniques might have been for fending off multiple attackers in a desperate situation.
I studied kuk sool for 20 years. the reverse grip form they teach is mostly garbage. the only thing it really does is build some arm muscle. yes, it's a close quarters technique for when you find yourself in a hallway or a building with no room to swing a sword in the normal manner, but that's about it. best thing you can do with a reverse grip and a sword is throw it like a spear...and then hope you have a second weapon. p.s. throwing swords is also kinda stupid.
Any suggestions on where I can get an practice arming sword that relatively cheap but sturdy??
this video in short:
reverse grip stats:
-range
-mobility
+power
+movement action bonus
+style
+ power only for strikes from specific arcs
- power for all other arcs
+power in tight quarters
+strong guard
-passing guard
No, definitely a - to power.
And a - to defense, as well.
I think its best use is with dual short swords. My faves dual wakisashi or katana / wakisashi. One held in forward grip the other in reverse.
Looks like it's meant for more mobility focused fighting or paired usage, where it could give a solid deflection option that you could then follow through with the other weapon or lead with the on hand weapon and use the opening with the off hand in corp-a-corp.
I am new to swords but would the reverse grip be more of a defensive stance so good with dual swords or arming sword and parrying dagger?
People in backround:
"What are they doing?" "Nevermind! Keep walking!"
Even the high guard feels unstable, unless you lean the sword onto the elbow
Never was a fan of reverse grip but i wanted a more educated and experienced person's evaluation of this style, i was not disappointed
A Kodachi would often be held in an icepick(SPEAR HANDED) style grip, and in some forms of dual sword variations in Chinese martial arts. Also, if you see a normal broadsword with an extra length handle it is for switching back and forth. 6:28 it is NOT an offensive style of grip at all, it is often portrayed as either the "I dont know what Im doing this is easier" grip, or the "I am a peaceful Ronin Samurai please do not make me kill you" grip as they can deflect nearly anything if they stay on defense and never plan to go offensive.
2:10 c'mon man! A little bit of creativity. Don't do an awkward cut. Strike your opponent in the face with the pommel or get the false edge to target the tendons behind their knee.
The hilt would have to move quite a distance from there to the face, which gives the opponent plenty of time to react. And a false edge cut from that position would be a weak slicing action only, not a full powered cut.
***** In short:
The reverse grip is rather shitty with swords.
The only use I can see for it would be with grappling.
I would actually be a little skeptical from a grappling perspective unless you're talking about using the sword as a crowbar. My experience is with FMA though, so I'm a little bias towards using the hilt as a small hook
I have to agree with you. For example, if I blocked like he does at 2:10, my next instinct is to grab my opponent's hand and then bring my sword up to cut across his neck. However, reverse grip would not be my primary way of fighting. The only time I'd feel compelled to primarily use a reverse grip is if my opponent is laying prone on the ground and I'm going for an "execution stab" (plunging my blade straight down through him to finish him off).
Kill! Kill!
It's weird to see people commenting things like, "Oh yeah, I use this when I'm duel-wielding because reverse grip has better defense."
No it doesn't. And even if it did, that makes it a shitty Shield.
I'll admit that anyone can make a style work. But you're perfecting a style that's inferior in many ways.
Best dual wielding is sword on the right hand and gun on the other
In my experience, only useful for really fast surprise attack if you do double slashes.
The first is an undercut, the second is sideways..
And you need to do the fast.
And I think you can perform it pretty fast.
But then switch a grip of course, that why I use this grip in my “weaker” arm tho I’m better with the reverse grip on this one.
So I do hand switch?
This is a question because I’m not sure if it would give advantages for the opponent.
What do you think
I mean if you were to perfect this it would be effective if you used your hands and a variety of knees and kicks while closing the distance while switching when needed
Drake ICN with enough practice and skill you can win a competition like that with a dagger, but at that level there is no reason to other than showing off.
Drake ICN yeah ill have to pass up on that 👀
I use my right hand as dominant hand when fighting with 2 hands and I use it when fighting with 1 hand, and I've realized that while I can't achieve anything with my left hand when trying to fight "normally", like with a standard grip, I can somewhat hold my ground when using my left hand in a reverse grip so I was wondering if it's kinda a rule that the other hand is better for reverse grip and your dominant hand is better for standard grip or sth like that ?
What about if the sword had a rounded saber type guard with a lock and when unlocked the blade could go to the other end effectively switching the blade from ice pick to normal grip
Reverse grip is for the movies
When fighting for your life in a frantic melee
You want as much steel as possible between yourself and your adversary.
What about a reverse-grip on a short-sword like a wakizashi in your offhand as a backup/ defensive weapon? I know it's a common movie and video game trope, but do you think there's any merit to the idea? I'm aware of similar techniques with a dagger instead of a short-sword, but the practicality of that seems more obvious.
there may be some defensive benefit but you would probably get a better benefit from a sword and dagger or sword and buckler/shield. sword and dagger the dagger could be held in a standard grip and act as a paring device along with the sword and then you were open to bind with the dagger and strike with the sword. similar techniques with sword and buckler except with defense and counter in rapid succession.
that borders on dagger territory which is easily more reasonable
But you can also go reverse grip with the dagger using a sword and dagger combo. It's an actual historical style.
Even as an offhand parrying dagger of sorts, it wouldn't work as well as a normal grip. I recall one of Skall's sparring video in which someone tried to use an offhand parrying dagger with a reverse grip, and it performed really poorly.
In rapier/dagger both the reverse grip and the forward grip are viable. It was just a matter of different schools, some masters preferred the first one, some others the second one.
Could you do a follow up with this but with duel weilding. Would it be effective for defense. Off hand reverse, strong hand regular grip.
The thing about it is the stance and fighting style you use it for, reverse grip is regularly used for a more agressive unorthodox stance. It requires mobility, particularly on darting in and out of enemy range and incorporating quick spins for power.
Yeah... No.
Mobility and darting in and out? Yeah, you can do that with standard grip and it works way better.
Aggressiveness?
Yeah, that's a great tactic... That also works better with standard grip.
Spins?
You mean, leaving yourself open so your opponent can stab you in the back?