Thank you so much for this video and including the detail behind how the max payload is calculated. That info is incredibly valuable. I recreated that work in excel so that I can calc my own values when deciding what mount to get. Just as an FYI, in doing that, I noticed maybe a slight typo @9:43 in your detail for your max loan with counterweight for your EdgeHD. For the illustration, looks like you might have added the weight reduction of 5.43 kg to the 12.26 Nm rather than to the max load of 13.29 kg.
Good video. I am considering getting the AM5N mount and will be using NINA 3.1. In the next video can you cover the initial setup of the mount in relation to star alignment / plate solving point model. It looks like I have to use SkyAtlas.
Great review! One question … I was under the impression that the guide camera should use an exposure of 1s or even 0.5s for a strain wave gear mount. Have you looked into this?
Thank you for reviewing this mount with an SCT in all three modes vs a refractor. I'm glad you also used the PE200 pier and mentioned the adapter also allows not only the AVX tripod, which I have, but it will also work with an iOptron tripod. I'm assuming it would be their 1.5" and LiteRoc tripods which you can purchase. That way if I were to sell my AVX I could purchase an iOptron tripod, or do you think the TC40 tripod is sufficient for every session use? I have to set up and tear down every session. I would purchase the PE200. My C8 with the current image train (Starizona focal reducer, Celestron OAG, ASI174mm mini guide camera, ZWO filter drawer, ASI071MC, plus some spacers), Mele Quiter 3Q, dew shield weighs in between 19lbs and 20lbs Did you find not using the 11lb counterweight in the sling bag made your SCT a little unstable? Did you extend the TC40 tripod legs fully in the review or just enough to allow leveling? Does the TC40 seem more stable using the spikes in grass or the rubber feet on hard surface? I noticed you were using 2 sec guiding exposures during the calibration of the native and focal reducer tests. Did you keep 2 seconds for the whole session test or adjust the guiding exposure lower? I find with my Celstron OAG an AVX mount I have to use shorter exposure than 2 seonds. I've also read that users of the previous AM5 version state they had to use 0.5 second exposures on higher focal lengths with OAG. Is it the better PE on the AM5N that allows you to use 2 second exposures? Did you try guiding at near zenith positions to see if there were certain sky locations where guiding results were different than the tests? Does Park in NINA scope controls send the mount to the Home position as the hand controller or Park in the ASI mount Ascom? This review makes me feel confident to purchase one of these mounts when they come back in stock.
Do you think the TC40 tripod is sufficient for every session use? I do. I know some people don't like it, and use a more robust tripod, but I haven't had any issues so far. Did you find not using the 11lb counterweight in the sling bag made your SCT a little unstable? Not really. It just made me feel more comfortable knowing that weight was in there when the scope is on one side or the other. Did you extend the TC40 tripod legs fully in the review or just enough to allow leveling? Yep, legs were fulling extended, and slightly adjusted for level. Does the TC40 seem more stable using the spikes in grass or the rubber feet on hard surface? I felt it helped keep things more secure in the yard. On concrete, the rubber feet seemed ok. I have a friend who owns one and she bought some after market feet that have a larger footprint. I could find out which ones if you like. Did you keep 2 seconds for the whole session test or adjust the guiding exposure lower? I tried the 1" exposures since I read the same thing, and total RMS was worse. I only tried once for a bit, then put it back to 2". Is it the better PE on the AM5N that allows you to use 2 second exposures? Possibly, but I'm not sure. Did you try guiding at near zenith positions to see if there were certain sky locations where guiding results were different than the tests? I did not. Does Park in NINA scope controls send the mount to the Home position as the hand controller or Park in the ASI mount Ascom? You'll want to use Find Home in NINA for that. This review makes me feel confident to purchase one of these mounts when they come back in stock. ZWO has them in stock. This is my affiliate link: www.zwoastro.com/product/zwo-am5n/?ref=richstevenson
I notice Agena and High Point are shippin their first waiting list batch now. The second waiting lists are due in November. If going through your link what is the estimated shipping date. Thanks
EQ6 is on sale. Which one guides better for a C8 SCT using an OAG, EQ6 or AM5N? Have to done anything with your EQ6 to "tune" it or do you run it as it came out of the box? Thanks
Question about counterweight. Since the counterweight isn't to balance the scope for drive purposes but to keep it from tipping over, is there a difference from a 10lb counterweight and putting 10lbs in the basket underneath? Or if there is a difference, how about between a 10lb counterweight and putting 20lbs in the basket?
The counter-weight is to increase the load capacity. Yes, some do use it for fear of it tipping, but that's not how ZWO describes its intended use. I can't really give you any recommendations beyond what I showed in the video. The 11lb weight I put in the bag makes the setup sturdier, not only helping it from possibly tipping, but movement from wind, etc. 20lbs may be too much for that bag though, not sure.
in my experience a balanced rig always performs better than a out of balance setup, i use a counterweight on my strain wave mount even though its not required for pay load purposes, i find polar alignment is easier, smoother, little or no bumping and the whole rig is bearing on (in my case) all three tripod legs evenly, placing weight in a bag under the mount will bring the centre of gravity closer to the centre line of the outfit but the mount will still be out off balance with the tripod
Great video, I always appreciate your attention to detail. Information like “can you power the mount through the saddle connection” is the type question most people seem to skip over. I do see something that interests me in your imaging setup. Just in front of your Celestron OAG I see what appears to be Rotator guide or gauge. Is this something available online or is this something you made on a 3D printer. As I use the same OAG and use it to rotate the cameras I would be very interested in acquiring such a useful item.
Thanks! Yeah I 3D printed that and then printed the gauge around it to help with rotating manually. Shoot me an email, and I'll see if I still have the CAD file. You could just send it to your local library, and they can print it for you.
excellent review, i noticed you mentioned your EQ6 a couple of times, I'm considering buying either the EQ6 or the NEQ6 the later being half the price of AM5, your thoughts on that idea ?
Great review Rich! It’s really impressive little mount. I was imaging in -10° (and a bit colder) last winter with my HEQ5, it’s curious because it’d seem that the strain wave would have a broader environmental operating range. I’d bet you could go colder than -4°. Cheers! Doug
@@DeepSpaceAstro The trick is to have everything working perfectly by December so there’s only 5 minutes of stuff to do outside for a session. I know, it’s astrophotography but a guy can dream, no?
Have you used your AM5N again with your C8 since you made the review video? Any changes to performance, guiding since the review video? I noticed in your observatory video the EQ6 is in there. AM5N will be used for travel and secondary scopes?
A few times but I use it mostly for travel and my RedCat now. I do however have a friend who uses it with her C8 all of the time, and it's been rock solid.
The strain wave gears have no backlash, but the belt used between the stepper motor and gear could. I've seen where ZWO said you could adjust that belt, but the backlash shouldn't affect the guiding unless it's really bad. In my tests so far, guiding was good.
This is the video I've been looking for. Thanks for the physics lesson as well! ZWO should just give you gear to do all their lacking product reviews. Your opinion of their FF scope line I'm sure would be informative as well.
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Fantastic review mate, I can really tell you put a lot of work into this! :-) Clear skies to you dude!
Hey thanks Luke!
One of the best reviews of this mount. Thanks.
Thanks!
I agree!
Thank you so much for this video and including the detail behind how the max payload is calculated. That info is incredibly valuable. I recreated that work in excel so that I can calc my own values when deciding what mount to get. Just as an FYI, in doing that, I noticed maybe a slight typo @9:43 in your detail for your max loan with counterweight for your EdgeHD. For the illustration, looks like you might have added the weight reduction of 5.43 kg to the 12.26 Nm rather than to the max load of 13.29 kg.
Happy to hear you found it useful. I'll have to review the video for that possible typo.
Great video and great results! Just need the prices for these strain wave mounts to come down a bit before I can afford them.
Thanks Naz! Yeah nothing cheap in this hobby.
Good video. I am considering getting the AM5N mount and will be using NINA 3.1. In the next video can you cover the initial setup of the mount in relation to star alignment / plate solving point model. It looks like I have to use SkyAtlas.
If you're using NINA you don't need to use the Sky Atlas. Point the mount North, and use the 3 point polar alignment plugin to get polar aligned.
Hello, i really enjoyed your review, you are super thorough! I grew up in Geneva Ohio, where in NE Ohio are you from?
Thank you! I'm just South of Cleveland
Great review! As always, you go above and beyond, and getting this extra information helps a great deal. Thank you!
Thanks!
Great review! One question … I was under the impression that the guide camera should use an exposure of 1s or even 0.5s for a strain wave gear mount. Have you looked into this?
I heard that as well, but 1s subs weren't working well for me. Maybe that was just for the original AM5?
@@DeepSpaceAstro seems to be generally applicable to any strain wave mount. I use 1s with my AM3
Thank you for reviewing this mount with an SCT in all three modes vs a refractor. I'm glad you also used the PE200 pier and mentioned the adapter also allows not only the AVX tripod, which I have, but it will also work with an iOptron tripod. I'm assuming it would be their 1.5" and LiteRoc tripods which you can purchase. That way if I were to sell my AVX I could purchase an iOptron tripod, or do you think the TC40 tripod is sufficient for every session use? I have to set up and tear down every session. I would purchase the PE200. My C8 with the current image train (Starizona focal reducer, Celestron OAG, ASI174mm mini guide camera, ZWO filter drawer, ASI071MC, plus some spacers), Mele Quiter 3Q, dew shield weighs in between 19lbs and 20lbs Did you find not using the 11lb counterweight in the sling bag made your SCT a little unstable? Did you extend the TC40 tripod legs fully in the review or just enough to allow leveling? Does the TC40 seem more stable using the spikes in grass or the rubber feet on hard surface? I noticed you were using 2 sec guiding exposures during the calibration of the native and focal reducer tests. Did you keep 2 seconds for the whole session test or adjust the guiding exposure lower? I find with my Celstron OAG an AVX mount I have to use shorter exposure than 2 seonds. I've also read that users of the previous AM5 version state they had to use 0.5 second exposures on higher focal lengths with OAG. Is it the better PE on the AM5N that allows you to use 2 second exposures? Did you try guiding at near zenith positions to see if there were certain sky locations where guiding results were different than the tests? Does Park in NINA scope controls send the mount to the Home position as the hand controller or Park in the ASI mount Ascom? This review makes me feel confident to purchase one of these mounts when they come back in stock.
Do you think the TC40 tripod is sufficient for every session use?
I do. I know some people don't like it, and use a more robust tripod, but I haven't had any issues so far.
Did you find not using the 11lb counterweight in the sling bag made your SCT a little unstable?
Not really. It just made me feel more comfortable knowing that weight was in there when the scope is on one side or the other.
Did you extend the TC40 tripod legs fully in the review or just enough to allow leveling?
Yep, legs were fulling extended, and slightly adjusted for level.
Does the TC40 seem more stable using the spikes in grass or the rubber feet on hard surface?
I felt it helped keep things more secure in the yard. On concrete, the rubber feet seemed ok. I have a friend who owns one and she bought some after market feet that have a
larger footprint. I could find out which ones if you like.
Did you keep 2 seconds for the whole session test or adjust the guiding exposure lower?
I tried the 1" exposures since I read the same thing, and total RMS was worse. I only tried once for a bit, then put it back to 2".
Is it the better PE on the AM5N that allows you to use 2 second exposures?
Possibly, but I'm not sure.
Did you try guiding at near zenith positions to see if there were certain sky locations where guiding results were different than the tests?
I did not.
Does Park in NINA scope controls send the mount to the Home position as the hand controller or Park in the ASI mount Ascom?
You'll want to use Find Home in NINA for that.
This review makes me feel confident to purchase one of these mounts when they come back in stock.
ZWO has them in stock. This is my affiliate link: www.zwoastro.com/product/zwo-am5n/?ref=richstevenson
Going through your affiliate link is the mount shipped from China or do they have their own stock in the US?
@KJRitch The 2 they sent me came out of their warehouse in California.
I notice Agena and High Point are shippin their first waiting list batch now. The second waiting lists are due in November. If going through your link what is the estimated shipping date. Thanks
@KJRitch Sorry, I wouldn't know. All I can say is I got mine I think I'm about a week.
EQ6 is on sale. Which one guides better for a C8 SCT using an OAG, EQ6 or AM5N? Have to done anything with your EQ6 to "tune" it or do you run it as it came out of the box? Thanks
They've both guided great for me. Can't really say one is better that the other in that respect. I haven't tuned either one.
Question about counterweight. Since the counterweight isn't to balance the scope for drive purposes but to keep it from tipping over, is there a difference from a 10lb counterweight and putting 10lbs in the basket underneath? Or if there is a difference, how about between a 10lb counterweight and putting 20lbs in the basket?
The counter-weight is to increase the load capacity. Yes, some do use it for fear of it tipping, but that's not how ZWO describes its intended use. I can't really give you any recommendations beyond what I showed in the video. The 11lb weight I put in the bag makes the setup sturdier, not only helping it from possibly tipping, but movement from wind, etc. 20lbs may be too much for that bag though, not sure.
in my experience a balanced rig always performs better than a out of balance setup, i use a counterweight on my strain wave mount even though its not required for pay load purposes, i find polar alignment is easier, smoother, little or no bumping and the whole rig is bearing on (in my case) all three tripod legs evenly, placing weight in a bag under the mount will bring the centre of gravity closer to the centre line of the outfit but the mount will still be out off balance with the tripod
Awesoms video man. I'm looking get this and pair it with the askar 103APO. Should make for an awesome little set up. I'll be sure to use your link
Thanks and I appreciate that!
Great video, I always appreciate your attention to detail. Information like “can you power the mount through the saddle connection” is the type question most people seem to skip over.
I do see something that interests me in your imaging setup. Just in front of your Celestron OAG I see what appears to be Rotator guide or gauge. Is this something available online or is this something you made on a 3D printer. As I use the same OAG and use it to rotate the cameras I would be very interested in acquiring such a useful item.
Thanks! Yeah I 3D printed that and then printed the gauge around it to help with rotating manually. Shoot me an email, and I'll see if I still have the CAD file. You could just send it to your local library, and they can print it for you.
excellent review, i noticed you mentioned your EQ6 a couple of times, I'm considering buying either the EQ6 or the NEQ6 the later being half the price of AM5, your thoughts on that idea ?
I can't speak to to the NEQ6, but I have no issues with my EQ6. It's a great mount.
Great review Rich! It’s really impressive little mount. I was imaging in -10° (and a bit colder) last winter with my HEQ5, it’s curious because it’d seem that the strain wave would have a broader environmental operating range. I’d bet you could go colder than -4°.
Cheers!
Doug
Thanks Doug! Lets hope I don't have to test that theory! 🥶
@@DeepSpaceAstro The trick is to have everything working perfectly by December so there’s only 5 minutes of stuff to do outside for a session. I know, it’s astrophotography but a guy can dream, no?
Have you used your AM5N again with your C8 since you made the review video? Any changes to performance, guiding since the review video? I noticed in your observatory video the EQ6 is in there. AM5N will be used for travel and secondary scopes?
A few times but I use it mostly for travel and my RedCat now. I do however have a friend who uses it with her C8 all of the time, and it's been rock solid.
interesting - I thought these mounts had zero backlash?
The strain wave gears have no backlash, but the belt used between the stepper motor and gear could. I've seen where ZWO said you could adjust that belt, but the backlash shouldn't affect the guiding unless it's really bad. In my tests so far, guiding was good.
And that backlash gets worse with time. Mine is about 50 arcsec now. Phd2 needs 7 steps during calibration to catch up to it.
What RA algorithm did you use in PhD2? Thanks.
The default Hysteresis.
This is the video I've been looking for. Thanks for the physics lesson as well! ZWO should just give you gear to do all their lacking product reviews. Your opinion of their FF scope line I'm sure would be informative as well.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks man!
Let's see. Operating range of -4F to 104F. Don't think I'll be pushing that envelope.
Right? 🤣