@@taunuslunatic404 maybe, i also bought all the cars i loved while growing up even have three AMI´s from citroen the diferent bodies they feel like a boat on sea but a dog can run more than a Ami or at least my piano teacther when passing with the Ami her dog was always barking to keep up in front of the car but a 92 year old woman driving a AMI as she drove it since new , one is the fastback the other at the time, the three volume car had a strange rear window that people looked and said WTF it is known by AMI WTF and the van ,in 1997 i drove in one night 700 km´s at 80 km´s /hour at least i think it was ,almost forget we had to stop at 2/3 of the trip as the alternator the device that charges the battery as there was one under the driver seat new ,but we didn´t knew but my father did ,he said why didn´t you change it before leaving, he was still a young man only 78 years old, he died three years ago
Smoother and lighter up front compared to its Mark 2 stablemate makes for a better driving experience. I have been a Mark 2 fan since 1966 when my late father arrived home one night with a gunmetal grey 2.4. Subsequently in the late 90’s I bought and part restored a gun metal grey 3.8. In my humble opinion the Mark 2 and Daimler equivalent are the best looking saloon cars in the world even 60 years on.
As an adolescent boy, the Jaguar MK2 were an awesome sight. I don't recall the Daimler being imported to the U.S., but remember seeing them in Europe. The wafty smell of the leather, wood, and chrome interiors reminded one of stocks, bonds, and other good and valuable assets. They were "special" then, as they remain special today, and I would still walk to the other side of the road to get a better look. There were a number of them in our community, usually driven by impeccably dressed women. All were air-conditioned with trunk mounted Delaney a/c. And, with the addition of air conditioning, things were pretty crowded in the engine bay, but an amazing sight as compared to the American cars.
Hi Ian from Sydney, Australis. Re the Daimler 4,5 litre V8's. Lyons liked them and was intending most definitely to fit them into a MK10. The Jaguar engine boys refined the 4.5 litre V8, changed the air cleaner, refined carburetion and obtained a significant power increase. THE Daimler version of the MK10 was indeed to be called the Daimler Sovereign, sadly BMC-Leyland management got wind of it and turned up with a fleet of trucks and took all the assembled 4.5 litre v8's, all the tooling and all the spare parts to this day nobody knows where they just buried somewhere, or were they taken to a metal smelter and recycled. Lyons & the management team were away for some show on the day. Now, park a MK10 4.2 litre and a 420G next to one another and consider that in late 1966 when this occurred for some 4 months you could buy a new 4.2 litre MK10, or you could buy a new 420G same price. As the differentiating parts had already been tooled up and made, the only unusable part was the fluted Daimler grill surround, The items different top rail on the dash of a 420G was for the Daimler, the chromed brass strips down the side of the car were for the Daimler, with their extra little blinker/indicator repeater lights in the front mudguards, the grill slats in the 420G are at the very front of the grill surround Daimler style with a central divider bar Daimler style, additionally the vertical grill bars are the same 90 degree angled material used for the other Daimler grills on the Majestic Major, and the Daimler 2.5 litre mk2 type sedan, NOT the material used on the MK10 grill units which is thicker and has a completely curved front aspect.. Additionally, in the really early late 1966 420G's the carpet fitted was the heavier Wilton type being used in the Majestic, and would see a return in the long wheelbase series 1 Vanden Plas V12 models in 1973. Plus the new hub caps on the 420G were to have been for this impressive new Daimler version of a Jaguar. Then there are the seats which are well different to the 4.2 Mk10's seats. I have owned a 4.2litre Mk10 and an early 420G, which I still own. 49 years ago when Sir Norman Dewis & "Lofty" England came to Australia in 1975 to present the 2 new Jaguar coupes, the XJC coupe, and the XJS there was a dinner served by the Sydney Jaguar Drivers club, held at Bryson Industries main Jaguar showroom in Sydney City. They arrived a little late and were seated at a table at the front where Mum, Dad, Jessie my girlfriend and myself were sitting. So I was able to ask TWO nagging questions. Were they really going to make a Daimler V8 powered MK10, (as i'd read it in a book about Jaguars at the period most of the publicly floated shares were bought by BMC, then worse was to come when Leyland merged with BMC) AND Question two, what does "G" signify in 420G. Lofty was still really hostile about it and then it was 10 years later, as with Lyon's sons' random accidental death the whole V12 project slowed, then for a while stopped. However, then Sir Norman who had been chief tester at the time said that after a fueling and air breathing makeover was completed and with some further tweaks to keep the 4.5 v8 Daimler engine running cool they had achieved a higher horsepower output with better reliability than they had with any version of the twin cam v12's. Jaguars' new "masters" at BMC-Leyland got wind of it and when the day was right and all upper management away, everything to do with the 4.5 litre Daimler was confiscated and never seen again, from fully running ready to fit engines to spare parts to all tooling, ALL GONE. So they used the cast badges on the new Jaguar 420 sedan, which Lofty & Norman told me was really just to be a s-type update with the new nose cone to accommodate factory air conditioning units for USA dealers as they needed some more engine bay space & this clever update on the forward 1/3 mudguard pressing would cleverly do it and for near zero outlay of cash. NOW 2nd QUESTIOIN what does the "G" stand for or mean in 420G. At this same time after hot words over what the Jaguar men felt was pure theft of all the Daimler V8 components, the Jaguar guys got a further slap in the face as they were told to rename all the cars as 240, 340, 420 --- but there would have been TWO 420's the MK10 type and the new S type version with the mk10 type nose cone . RESULT the BMC-Leyland blokes felt that in Jaguar group's many parts bins there must be some decal or badge to delineate the difference, so they used the capital G off a GUY truck model, which is made of aluminium, and if you own a 420G that has been stood outside for a while the G will fret away, but the cast brass 420 cast script will still look perfect. To Finish, Sir Norman Dewis reckoned it was a real travesty as they had sunk time and effort to refine that big V8, and right when they had just started building them as a production model they had the carpet pulled from under them, mostly they could use the newly created Daimler specific items on a renamed MK10 Jaguar and they did. But Sir Norman reckoned their modifications to make what should have been the Daimler Sovereign made what he felt was the best "Jaguar" ever as they had the engine delivering near 400 horsepower in basic street tune and it was able to do 170 MPH straight off the showroom floor, not only that but this would have made this hybrid version the fastest most powerful luxury car available anywhere at any price. My early 420G also is fitted with the specially created Koni Gas shocks made for this Daimler super car, so you get a nice comfy ride but when hard cornering the car will not lean or roll, to keep you from leaning or rolling on the seats ALL the Daimler Sovereign 4.5 litre "mk10's" were to be fitted with 4 seat (front & rear) Factory Inertia reel seatbelts in late 1966, my early 420G has these as well, specially made by Britax for this car too, the first ever inertia reel seat belts in any car. WE were duded by BMC -Leyland. Some 40 years ago in the NSW Jaguar Drivers Club a member from Newcastle area in NSW had inherited his dad's Jag 420G and had a cylinder head gasket failure which led to a cracked engine block as well. Down in Sydney's western suburbs there was a Jaguar-Daimler breakers J&D spares they had a really nice Majestic Major that had been struck in the rear by a truck and wrecked. However, had a mint low mileage Daimler 4.5 litre V8 in it. My friend bought it and over a period of several months' weekends created his own Daimler Sovereign as both used a BW type8A automatic, the early MK10's both 3.8 litres and 4.2 litres used different engine mounting system, and with a mix of that and the 420G type system the engine fitted reasonably well, he manufactured his own unique air cleaner and soon the car was up and running. I drove it once completed in the early mid-80's and it had stunning performance, if you wished to be cheeky it could spin both rear tyres in a straight line impressive. .
I was sceptical about your story at first, as the timeline didn’t seem to fit. But having read a few bits about BMC and specifically Vanden Plas I reckon that there is something to the story. Jaguar either merged with BMH or was bought out by them to form BMC (depending on what you read where!) in 1966. And the BMC Leyland merger was in 1968. Jaguar had owned Daimler since 1960 so they had 6 years to get a Daimler V8 Sovereign based on the Mk.X into production, which even by the standards of the day was plenty of time to get the job done. So the delay until 1966 does seem odd, but there was plenty to deal with, and a smaller Daimler was probably more pressing than a Majestic or Majestic Mayor replacement. And at first I couldn’t see why BMC would want to meddle that much with Jaguar and its Daimler subsidiary. Then I wondered why would want BMC to prevent development of new Daimler models? Vanden Plas popped into my mind! Who would VP in the 1960’s and what were they making? I knew it was part of BL later on, but had to look it up whether it was part of Leyland or BMC before the merger. They were owned by Austin from 1947 being the manufacturer of the Austin Princess saloon and Limousine until 1968 (the mixed use of Austin Princess and the VP Princess across a few different models of saloon and limousine is a bit odd mind). So the Daimler Majestic Major and the DR450 Limousine would have clashed with the Austin Princess Limousine produced from 1947 until 1968 (dropping the Austin name in 1957 and gaining the Vanden Plas brand name from 1960, both to allow for sale of the Princess Saloon and Limousine in all Nuffield Group dealerships). It does make some sense in that context, although the DR450 and the Princess Limousine were both eventually replaced by the DS420 in the end. A rationalisation at least, but odd that they chose Daimler over there own VP, although the VP name and even the Princess name were both being used on more humble BMC models by the mid to late 1960’s (in a similar way to Ford with its Ghia brand), Daimler being a less diluted brand name and more closely linked with its fellow premium brand - Jaguar does make more sense even before the BMC Leyland merger. One final note, I suspect that claim of 170mph is a bit rich! If both the Mk.X and the 420G were capable of 120mph and the Majestic Mayor was capable of 120mph, then even with improved air intakes the Daimler V8 in the lighter Jaguar platform would more likely be capable of 140mph tops. That said I’d be intrigued to try you fellow club members V8 engined Jaguar! I do think JLR should offer to build King Charles a pair of EV Daimler State Limousine in the same way Bentley did with Queen Elizabeth II for her Golden Jubilee! I saw them a few times around London and on the A40 out near the RAF Northolt Airport.
@@teamhandsome1974 Hi there from Sydney. firstly, re the speed, it was Sir Norman Dewis that stated the speed potential, as it is written nowhere in any book I have read, he stated that both the Majestic Major & the MK10 used the Borg Warner type 8A automatic, which was used by many other companies with powerful engines. E.G. Jensen, Rover P5B withe the Buick v8, Facel Vegas, the Swiss Monteverdi's, to name but a few, However in the USA "Ford People" would know the same automatic as the C4 Cruise-O-Matic, it came with a variety of internal components, options and settings. E.G in a Lincoln with a very tall diff' for freeway use , with a internal switch pitch stator and ss=tall conversion kit and both a front & rear pump, you achieved 2 things, first is decent MPG from a vast 7litre v8 and second is enhanced performance even though s csr fitted withs tall diff for highways, so you get lower RPM at high speeds, this is achieved also by having a low 1st gear setting, then a big jump to second gear, however there is no jerk in the upshift a this has been wiped out with the extra internals, then also a big jump up to 3rd gear. E.G. 2, also fitted to a humble Ford F100 ute with a base level 390ci 6.4 litr v8 but used at low-speed hauling primary produce, where all that is needed is pure torque to pull a load in top gear, and no worry re fuel use, with a different set off internals you get a totally different outcome. As a 6yr old in late 1981 my mum bought a new 3.8 litre MK10, the 3.8 versions had the horrible earlier Borg Warner DG automatic. This was upgraded to the new type 8A in late 1964 when the series 2 mk10's with the 4.2 litre engines came out. My mum updated her early car with the 2nd last new 420G sent here to Australia in March 1971, in 1975 as I bought a 1965 4.2 litre mk10 only affordable as it was left hand drive, and coming soon was all cars RHD in Australia remaining LHD cars were to be de-registered by the government and off the road. In 2012 I bought the early 420G. All 3 of these 4.2 liter examples were/are fitted with the B-W 8A automatic, however all had B-W 8A's but all were different and mum's 420G did not have a limited slip diff', however both mine did, this gave all 3 cars a completely different personality and feel. My first MK10 was owned by the Australian rep' to World Health Org' in Geneva, however he had a stroke aged 52 in 1974 and was sent back to Australia, this '65 model would see off any kind of 1960's exotic sports car as it had a tall diff centre for the European Autobahns and had the ultra-high output bronze head fitted being more powerful than an early 1970's V12 Jaguar plus mine gave decent MPG even if you drove it like a hooligan. My current 420G has what I would call the "rural" selection again with a tall diff for decent MPG , but also fitted with a decent selection of the performance enhancing internal parts. My mum's very late model 420G has the same 4.2 litre engine & comp' ratio as fitted to the early XJ6's, (less power, so lower diff' internals to assist 1st gear takeoffs in city areas, rather than for higher speed freeway use) and the same "poverty" spec internals as used also in early XJ6's. So from a practical personal experience standpoint, I have seen the difference years ago in the '70's the difference between my '65 4,2 litre mk10, and back then mum's near new '71 420G, as she had a factory tow pack/bar on her car & I'd bought a old house at Bathurst, NSW, about 130 miles due west of Sydney, should I wish to use her gardening supplies little box trailer, or a bigger one we'd do car swap. On the 60 mile slope down the western slopes having gone over the 4,000 foot Blue Mountains, you found yourself in the de-restricted speed zone where you could do whatever speed you wished in mum's car even with an empty little trailer the car would get barely over 100mph, however in my '65 mk10 4.2l it would go just past 130 mph all in and was not even touching red line on tacho' as it had been ordered with the autobahn the setting. So probably Sir Norman was correct with the 4.5 v8 as if ordered with the correct require internals, I'd seen the different outcomes in what were basically to look at 3 virtual identical cars. In my driving career I've owned 2 Ford products fitted with their C$ Cruise-O-Matics. One a '65 Lincoln Continental sedan with the 7litre FE/MEL v8 engine, and the other a '65 Ford Galaxie with a 6.4 v8 FE/MEL engine, the Lincoln was a Carter 2bbl carby but bigger engine, however the Galaxie had been ordered with a full transmission performance kit and was fitted with dual Carter 4bbl carbies, like a police pursuit car, this exact setup won Ford USA the Nascar trophy for 1965 with 48 wins out of 52 races, the next year 1966 saw Ford introduce the mew for '67 wide body Mustangs and near 2/3'rds the way through the year with 36 consecutive wins in Galaxies, they decided to swap to New Mustangs for the final races, and did not win another race. The type 8A box is very strange, different to most automatics as it has a dual range selector D@ means it starts in 2nd gear and on a hill you can remove your foot off the footbrake as it has automated "hill-hold", select D1 and it will ALWAYS start in 1st gear, now, L on the quadrant DOES NOT mean Low gear it means LOCKED UP, depending on a road speed sensor in the transmission it may select either 1st gear OR 2nd gear and will stay locked up until the transmission feels it is the correct time to move up one gear safeguarding the cars engine from being damaged through over revving, it is the same in the Jaguars versions of this gearbox. Re selecting Jaguar to make the new corporate limousine, the MK10/420G body structure is one of the most rigid non-flex structures made anywhere from 1961 to 2024. WHY?? well Lyons' was well aware of the disaster bodies built by Budd Steel on behalf of Ford for the new '58 Lincolns & new '58 Thunderbirds all had terrible body flex issues and substantial warranty claims as brand-new cars. Either make could have the front windscreens pop out when backing or driving diagonally up onto a kerb, or in the shorter base model Lincoln Capri, the wrap around back screen could pop out. Lyons wanted none of this and designed a shell thickness that stopped any body flex, a 20" longer rear floor pressing was used on the DS420 limousine, new doors, new front & rear wings and new bonnet & boot lid pressing plus roof, all the massive Jaguar MK10/420G understructure was re-used with no changes. Consider this was a structure conceived in the 1950's and passed the USA crash test requirements until the last Daimler DS420 was built in late 1992, 30 years use ! The Jaguar mk10 based Daimler DS420's went on sale in 1968 at the same time as the new Jaguar XJ6's did. However the Daimler version the XJ based Sovereign 1B was held over in production until all stocks of the Sovereign 1A's were sold (the Jaguar 420 clone). Back in 1975 when Lofty England & Sir Norman Dewis sat opposite me I never thought to ask whether they intended to fit the 4.5 liter v8 Daimler engines into the new limousines too. Something they did say though was that initially on purchase of Daimler there were warranty issues re overheating in the Majestic Majors with the V8's, however they had a similar issue with early mk10's, but they canned the UK radiator manufacturer being used and swapped to USA GM's Harrisons' who had invented the modern crossflow style that cheats boiling point.
@@gregharvie3896 your comparison between the three engine and gearbox variants is very interesting. My Dad had a 420G manual with overdrive before I was born which he traded in for an XJ6 SWB with the same engine and gearbox. I was driven home from hospital in that XJ6 and remember it being parked up in our garage awaiting renovation in my childhood, but have no memories of riding in it before it was parked up. I’d love to try a Mk.X or 420G and am waiting patiently for my brother to finish recommissioning a Ser 1 1972 XJ12L to have a proper try of that too.
@@teamhandsome1974 Hi there again, the series 1 XJ long wheelbase cars are the ABSOLUTE BEST of all the 3 early XJ's 1,2 & 3, the 4-inch longer wheelbase makes all the difference. They were in response to the "killing off" of the 420G's for sale to the general public. Consider that out of just over 98,000 series 1 bodyshells, a mere 2600 were the LWB cars in all variants V12 or 6 cyl, Daimler or Jaguar, Left or Right-hand drive, also in the mix is 352 v12 Daimler Vanden Plas RHD's and just 1 LHD for Lyons when he went to the USA Jag HQ'. So when you get to a final split there were only near 300 of each version. The Series 1 LWB's also have a reinforced body shell to be compliant to the new USA 10 mph damage free crash test rules and the MK10/420G's were being still constructed until late 1975 as special-order cars for foreign governments. Back in xmas 1975 my dad's diplomatic neighbors in Pitt street Sydney was the Malaysian High Commissioner and rest of their team, they received 2 new 420g's in an unusual deep green, when I was looking at one it had the Aussie Federal compliance plate on it with month/year of construction and the later type factory air conditioning like my mums '71 model where there is a front outlet under the middle of the dash, shortening the front console and seeing a half size ashtray in the consol like those in an early XJ. It appears that the 420G's were kept alive for a while as their body structure was so strong it would exceed the fourth even more stringent USA smash test rules which eventually were never implemented as the third 10mph one caused major price increases and a lack of sales, coupled with the 1973/74 Arab oil embargo saw the US auto industry on its knees. For 32 years I owned a special order LWB XJ6, ordered by Jacques Antoni who was the GM of Citra Constructions, a French company they were building the natural gas pipeline system all across Australia for the federal government. He did not want a Daimler Vanden Plas v12 with vinyl roof, but basically wanted a Jaguar 4.2 litre Vanden Plas and no vinyl roof, in Regency Red with Biscuit interior (natural leather with no dye cream color) complete with the VDP tall backed 4 seat set up and with tiple SU Carbs like in a mk10/420G. When you went to car shows in it people thought that it had been a personal creation, however then you could show them the build sheet as proof it was completely factory made, I sold it to a friend in 2012 when I bought my current 429G which in 2012 had a mere 50,020 miles on it from new in Jan'967 with log book servicing as proof over the past decade or so i have added another 40,000 miles and it has run like clockwork. When comparing a series 1 long to a 420G, the 420G has way more punch as there were no anti pollution fittings, has a higher compression ratio and has the extra SU carby fitted, the other main difference is the XJ sits lower at the front, but has more compliant softer coils & shocks, and has the slower ratio rack & pinion steering. On my 420G is factory Koni GAS shocks (stiffer) and heavy duty coil springs so in a quick turn maneuver it stays flat , the Marles Ad-West variomatic steering box has a smaller turning circle as it allows the lead wheel in a turn to be at almost 90 degrees when you look at it sticking out from the wheel well. How I really see the two cars is that the MK10/420G was the premium best car of the two. However, the XJ was to cut construction costs and reduce the selling price and sell more cars while providing almost all the benefits as in the 420G, this was done by having bolt on front mudguards, eliminating the massive front wheel well shells welded into the MK10/420G's, and at the rear having the under half of the rear mudguard as also a bolt off panel. The extra real cost in the totally fully welded on panels would have cost a lot extra on mk10/420g's, also even the sound deadening underlay under the carpets is double the thickness in a 420G, having owned both types you can see where the savings were made.
Guy who used to run Forward Engineering many years who was an R&D engineer for Jag back in the day (Ron Beatty I think) told me that the 4.5 version of the MK10 would go round the test track at well over 100 mph for hour after hour at the hands of anyone who could get hold of the keys never missing a beat. He thought it was a much better car than the XK engined version and the reason it got binned was, in his opinion, the bruised ego's of the likes of Wally Hassan that saw it blocked from further development and sale.
My local vicar had one. He gave me a lift to school once when the bus didn't turn up. He put his foot down, and bragged " we are now doing a cool 90"....!!!
Well there was the 4.5 litre big brother that Jag quickly ditched because it was more powerful than their 4.2 XK. The little one is sort of a Triumph 650 times four in a more complicated way than the Vanwall that had its roots in a Manx Norton single.
Sadly it was just bad timing. Triumph started development of the Stag V8 in 1965, ready to go in 1968 in 2.5 litre form. Triumph didn't become part of BL till 1968 and needed to recoup the money invested in the engine. The only decision taken by BL (under Triumph advisement) was delaying the Stag by a year (meant to launch in 1969, eventually 1970) to enlarge the V8 to 3 litres, to counter an increase in the Stag's weight which was 125 kilos heavier than the 2500 saloon. Also Triumph was hoping to sell the V8 to SAAB as a halo engine for the 99 (20 prototypes were made) but the Swedish company decided turbocharging was the way to go. Then there was an expectation that the V8 would replace the 2500PI in the saloon but the 1973 oil crisis intervened and the project cancelled.
Amongst the various videos on RUclips., in one, someone restored a Triumph Stag 3 litre, installing larger radiator and electric fan etc, the result was no over-heating. There is ANOTHER RUclips video where someone else restores another Stag 3 litre V8 using all original spec radiator core and original type fan etc and then put it through its paces with a myriad of temperature sensors all over it. it also had no overheating problem (BIG BREATH) "IF THE COOLING SYSTEM HAS BEEN BLED PROPERLY IN THE FIRST PLACE" . The biggest problem with the 3 litre v8 engines is that the cooling system needs to be properly bled of air when filling from empty. Many cars left the factory or dealership with unbled air pockets and this caused the overheating problems. A great wee engine ruined by poor quality control at the very end of the factory assembly process.
The Daimler V8 also turned out to be immensely strong and was used in drag racing with big superchargers and nitromethane fuel, making ~1000bhp back in the 70's.
I'm one of those weirdos who really pays attention to the sound a car door makes when it shuts, and when you shut the rear door, it honestly sounded to me like a modern car.
My Dad had a white one with red leather back in the seventies ,the interior had the greatest smell of leather and wood and I loved the little triangle windows at the front.Classy car 😊
The history of Daimler with the last being 2010 reminded me how in my X-type (55plate), there was an option in the settings menu to change the boot screen on the satnav/touchscreen from Jaguar to Daimler
As a kid in the 60's, a friend's mum had one. Silver w red leather, lovely looker, so was the car. She often filled it with us kids and take us up over the moors for ice creams & games. Sometimes go fast & leave Fords & Austins etc in her dust.
Dad’s mate Jack had one in the mid 60’s. He was very proud of his car. He used to tow a glider trailer and I recall he had a gearbox oil cooler fitted because the gearbox overheated when towing the heavy trailer.
I have a tiny engine F150 2.7 dual turbos and it steps out quite nicely, sounds no where as good as that old Daimler, you gotta Love that sound, to hear the conversations that had been carried on in that ole gal. Beautiful review, the dash is a work of art! The whole car is a work of art really!
Mine is the same year, 1964. Despite having a garage it parks on the drive so that I can admire the look of it when I walk past. The original radio does work but has never been turned on as I do the same as you when I drive, window open no matter what the weather to hear the gorgeous sound of the engine.
I could imagine when that was released it would have been a real status car,owners probably living 15 miles outside of big cities in their country mansion.
WasMy Great-Grandmother's car...British racing green, Dad added PAS...good amount of wind noise at speed! Ours was D-reg...Love those spats covering the rear wheels - proper class even if the crinkly bonnet was a bit fussy...hey, suited the G-Granny and she drove it into her 80s
Beautiful. I once had a manual one for the weekend and took it on a 400 mile round trip to a wedding where it upstaged the wedding car. Best bit was the jaunt with friends to the pub the day after, just sitting in the garden and looking at it in the sunshine. Apparently only about 100 manual gearbox ones made!
There was a guy in our office in 1974 had an old one of these (silver grey, red leather). This was in an era when blokes in their 20s who had a car at all tended to have old minis, 1100’s etc (I had an Anglia I paid £90 for), but he had his Daimler V8 which I think he only paid about £200 for, from an uncle - though it probably wasn’t worth much more, he knew its history. He was a bit of a “young fogey” (tweed cap, corduroy trousers, brogues) from somewhere very rural and no doubt thought it fitted the image. We thought he was bonkers - this was just after the oil crisis and the price of petrol had rocketed and the value of thirsty cars had cratered, and the cost of any serious repairs would have been a month’s wages. But it was a gentleman’s club on (wire) wheels and a pleasure to be in.
I had an early Daimler Double Six VDP once. Badge engineered Jaguar but with much plushification. And an incredibly thirsty four carb engine, those engineers were very insistent on six cylinders good, twelve cylinders better.
I remember these when I joined a Jaguar main dealer back in 1976. I always recall that these engines were a bit smokey when cold. The older mechanics said the 4.5 engine was much better in reliability and performance. We had a few Daimler Majestic's in to repair, and they had the pre engagement gearbox. It had a clutch pedal that wasn't a clutch pedal....very strange setup.
I think you're confusing the 104, Majestic and Majestic Major : The 104 was the last with the preselect gearbox with the 'gear change pedal' which you describe as fitted with a clutch pedal that "wasn't a clutch pedal" ,...not a strange setup at all !...All Daimlers throughout the range,since the early 1930's, had all been fitted with the preselector box until 1957 or'58 :The 3.8 litre Majestic was the first to receive the BorgWarner auto DG box , and the MajMajor 4.5 litre was never given the chance to be developed any further , though a prototype 5 litre version developed by a curious Browns Lane , produced a genuine 300bhp , putting the Jaguar twin cam unit in the shade somewhat: I have owned 3 Majestic Majors over the past 45 yrs:
The Mk.II has been my forever dream car, but I'm now old enough to appreciate the Daimler version more. Less sporty perhaps, but more relaxed and a bit more luxurious.
I've seen that Daimler a few times at Cardigan Car Show, beautiful car. My uncle used to have Daimlers and Jags in the late 60s and early 70s (when I was a child), one of which was a Mark 2, I was always pleased when he visited as he took me out for drives in it out in North Pembs where I grew up. I know that road you're driving on well, must have walked it hundreds of times!
The 3rd car i bought in my youth was a 1967 Daimler 2.5 V8, I really wanted a Jag MK2 but this Daimler was so cheap, Bought off an old fella who cherished it and it was in lovely condition, It set me back £450! Never gelled with it though as i really wanted a manual MK2, Had a few S-Type manuals and 3.4 MK2 manuals but now own a nice original 3.8 MK2 manual, The 3.8 in manual O/D form is the best Jag compact IMO.
I`ve had one, as well as a 66 S-Type, I will confirm the IRS equipped S-Type did ride & handle better, the V8 did have the edge aurally, although both sounded lovely through their relatively tiny pea-shooter exhausts!
My Dad had one of them exact Daimlers, he had it for over 40yrs in NZ It was the grey with red upholstery. Loved the sound and crackle the twin copper exhaust had when you floored it 😂
Brings back memories of sorts. In the early-mid 70s, the proprietor of a corner shop linked to our local post office had one of these in this exact shade of gold. It was quite frequently parked in the street during opening hours.
As an owner of a Jaguar 340, a Daimler XJ6 and Edward Turner designed Triumph Bonneville this one really hit spot for me. Many thanks for a great vid !
The Daimler V8 was a very reliable engine particularly the 4.5 along with the stiff Daimler chassis which prevented a coach built body from flexing and creaking. The SP 250 was their first foray into own bodies so the weird looks can be forgiven. Daimler held the patent on the Fluid Flywheel until it expired during WWII, only licensing it to manufacturers that used their engines and certain commercial vehicle manufacturers such as London General Omnibus (LT) and the Associated Equipment Company (AEC).
Reliable? I had a 2.5 in 1975 with the usual burnt out valves and the big-ends on their way out after 75,000 miles, the parts were the same as the Triumph 650 engine and it was just as unreliable. Overheating was another issue if you nailed it as well. The back-end with quarter-eliptic springs was just rubbish and the brakes challenging, the handbrake in particular being effectively non-existent. I had a 420G as a company car and privately moved up to a 3.8 S type though for some years we had a Majestic Major engine in the workshop ready for a transplant into the Daimler. Rust killed them all in the end and I bought a 302 Camaro! A gentlemans transport it wasn't, fast and reliable it was.
@@jimtitt3571 My experience with them was pre Jaguar days with the ambulances, then later the big limousines and Conquests, never any problems that would have driven the fleet engineer to drink. Regular servicing was essential as is with any vehicle. Ours were serviced on a running hour basis as actual mileage quite low. Mainly in Central London and to LHR.
A beautiful car. Takes me back to my very early schooldays when my father owned a metallic light blue Jaguar Mark II 3.8, even back then I looked-out for the crinkled radiator cars having seen them listed in the annual London Motorshow magazine.
I drove a mark ii around 5 miles 20 years ago. Unusually, a local chap was selling one in Wexford, Ireland. It was the first time I drove a car that felt absolutely nothing like modern cars. (And that's modern as in anything from the 70's/80's onwards)
Back in my childhood an older couple living a street away had such a V8 Daimler, same colour if my memory is correct. What a good looking car it was back then and still is. And what nice sound it made. Years later I learned that it had this small 2.5 litre V8 engine. Unfortunately the trend in small engines was not towards V8's. What a pity.
I've owned my Dame Zara -- a 1969 V8-250 -- for 18 years now and we recently passed 50,000 miles of driving. Overall it's on 201,700 miles on the original engine (one full rebuild and one set of replacement heads)
My Dad had one when I was about 10. He pulled the engine and blueprinted it (he was a mechanic) , he also repainted the car British Racing Green by hand in Enamel with a fine brush and then hand flattened and buffed it, it was a very fast car.
My favorite RUclips presenter on all things automotive. I agree that this model is a fine example of the marriage of Daimler and Jaguar. I love that small V8 too. You might be interested to know that Daimler carried on building the Limousine at Brown's Lane until 1992. By then ofcourse with the 4.2 ltr XK engine. . They would pass my window on their way out for road testing 😊
Edward Turner was a Bona fide Genius. He was responsible for the Triumph Speed Twin of 1938 and his influence in motorcycle engineering persists to this day.
Saw one just yesterday next to me on my e bike. A sight to behold! Quite compact at 14 ft 11 long about the same as a Mk1 Mondeo, but more narrow at about 5 ft 7 wide, but despite that it looked incredibly solid, and had an imposing presence!
We owned a 1967 Jaguar 340 with the B/W auto which was equipped with the electric overdrive on 2nd and 3rd gear. This made for easy touring on the US freeways with the 3.4 liter XK six. I don't think I have ever seen the Daimler version in America.
A mate of mine had a manual with overdrive one about 40 years ago . I think it was one of only 127 that was specified with that option a beautiful very rare car bet he wishes he'd still got it .
A beautiful car. Love the proper wood interior, and the V8 sounds superb. Could hear the satisfying clunk of the doors closing, demonstrating the quality of the car. I wish I could afford one.
The sound of this rolling gentlemen's club is magnificent! These cars are not really my cup of tea but nice to see and to hear. Thanks for this V8 road test and see you soon »»» Martin
My Dad had an SP and a Majestic Major limo, I got to drive both in my late teens and early twenties, including chauffeuring a couple of weddings in the Limo! The SP completely spoiled me for any other engine, nothing has ever come remotely close for smoothness and sound (including the feeling of the sound, if that makes sense!). Driving through tunnels was a spiritual experience.
Nice. For a country known for its i4 and i6 engines, postwar Britain made at least six v8s. There's the Daimler 2.5 L and 4.5 L (imagine the 4.5L in a compact Jaguar), the Rolls Royce 5.2 L to 6.7 L range, the poorly conceived Triumph 3 L, the superlative Rover 3.5 L (later expanded to 5 L) and the Aston Martin 5.3 L. In 1996 Jaguar launched their first ever v8 with the AJ 3 L to 5 L range (also used by Aston Martin and Land Rover).
A cracking video Ian. A great car with some great history. Once again it really is a shame that the development of such a promising engine was halted but I do understand the financial reasons why. Many thanks for sharing.
Amazing car! Even with that teeny (by U.S.standards) 2.5, it sounds a bit mean and very serious. I'm so glad you mentioned it has a hemi head design. I had wondered, but no other presenter I've seen ever mentioned it. I am a mopar guy from my childhood, and I think there is just a certain sound to a hemi. They always seem so velvety. we had a fifty six Desoto, and the 331 hemi was so smooth, passengers were telling mom it had died at stoplights. Anyway, I babble... thank you for a fab review of a delightful car.
That powersteering noise would drive me around the bend.the original system powered off the dynamo on my 68 s type is brilliant.i like the mk2s but naturally prefer the s type.they handle,ride and have far better refinement .this v8 is a lovely sounding engine tho.
Hi Andy I am 67 years young And They say every day is a school day! Thanks for the information of that 2 1/2 L engine!. Stunning Car! Ps. Good camera work by Mrs. Hubnut !!.
I don't remember what the differences were but there were bodywork differences between the Sovereign and the XJ6. After leaving school I briefly worked for a firm called Park Sheet Metal who made all the panels which were different on the Daimler version. As an apprentice piece one lad was making a complete TR6 shell and panels from scratch.
As someone who grew up in Sheffield I've looked at the history of Bambers. It was a car showroom for many years, eventually becoming a Gilders showroom who were main VW agent in the area (it began selling VWs when the Beetle was launched), now part of JCT600. The Cambridge Street premises is now a Wetherspoons! I now live in Leeds, but can't find anything about Bambers Headrow. The only link is an advert for the company on a railway bridge in Wakefield, advertising Bambers for 'SS' cars, which of course was the original name for Jaguar.
60 years old actually Ian not 50! Brilliant vid as usual, keep up the good work chap!
Maybe he meant itis current owner is 50 years old.
@@taunuslunatic404 maybe, i also bought all the cars i loved while growing up even have three AMI´s from citroen the diferent bodies they feel like a boat on sea but a dog can run more than a Ami or at least my piano teacther when passing with the Ami her dog was always barking to keep up in front of the car but a 92 year old woman driving a AMI as she drove it since new , one is the fastback the other at the time, the three volume car had a strange rear window that people looked and said WTF it is known by AMI WTF and the van ,in 1997 i drove in one night 700 km´s at 80 km´s /hour at least i think it was ,almost forget we had to stop at 2/3 of the trip as the alternator the device that charges the battery as there was one under the driver seat new ,but we didn´t knew but my father did ,he said why didn´t you change it before leaving, he was still a young man only 78 years old, he died three years ago
The same as my production year
Only just 60! Same age as my mum.
My bike is the same age and also designed by Edward Turner
Smoother and lighter up front compared to its Mark 2 stablemate makes for a better driving experience. I have been a Mark 2 fan since 1966 when my late father arrived home one night with a gunmetal grey 2.4. Subsequently in the late 90’s I bought and part restored a gun metal grey 3.8. In my humble opinion the Mark 2 and Daimler equivalent are the best looking saloon cars in the world even 60 years on.
I am compelled to agree, they are the very definition of elegance.
As an adolescent boy, the Jaguar MK2 were an awesome sight. I don't recall the Daimler being imported to the U.S., but remember seeing them in Europe. The wafty smell of the leather, wood, and chrome interiors reminded one of stocks, bonds, and other good and valuable assets. They were "special" then, as they remain special today, and I would still walk to the other side of the road to get a better look.
There were a number of them in our community, usually driven by impeccably dressed women. All were air-conditioned with trunk mounted Delaney a/c. And, with the addition of air conditioning, things were pretty crowded in the engine bay, but an amazing sight as compared to the American cars.
Hi Ian from Sydney, Australis. Re the Daimler 4,5 litre V8's. Lyons liked them and was intending most definitely to fit them into a MK10. The Jaguar engine boys refined the 4.5 litre V8, changed the air cleaner, refined carburetion and obtained a significant power increase. THE Daimler version of the MK10 was indeed to be called the Daimler Sovereign, sadly BMC-Leyland management got wind of it and turned up with a fleet of trucks and took all the assembled 4.5 litre v8's, all the tooling and all the spare parts to this day nobody knows where they just buried somewhere, or were they taken to a metal smelter and recycled. Lyons & the management team were away for some show on the day.
Now, park a MK10 4.2 litre and a 420G next to one another and consider that in late 1966 when this occurred for some 4 months you could buy a new 4.2 litre MK10, or you could buy a new 420G same price. As the differentiating parts had already been tooled up and made, the only unusable part was the fluted Daimler grill surround, The items different top rail on the dash of a 420G was for the Daimler, the chromed brass strips down the side of the car were for the Daimler, with their extra little blinker/indicator repeater lights in the front mudguards, the grill slats in the 420G are at the very front of the grill surround Daimler style with a central divider bar Daimler style, additionally the vertical grill bars are the same 90 degree angled material used for the other Daimler grills on the Majestic Major, and the Daimler 2.5 litre mk2 type sedan, NOT the material used on the MK10 grill units which is thicker and has a completely curved front aspect.. Additionally, in the really early late 1966 420G's the carpet fitted was the heavier Wilton type being used in the Majestic, and would see a return in the long wheelbase series 1 Vanden Plas V12 models in 1973. Plus the new hub caps on the 420G were to have been for this impressive new Daimler version of a Jaguar. Then there are the seats which are well different to the 4.2 Mk10's seats.
I have owned a 4.2litre Mk10 and an early 420G, which I still own. 49 years ago when Sir Norman Dewis & "Lofty" England came to Australia in 1975 to present the 2 new Jaguar coupes, the XJC coupe, and the XJS there was a dinner served by the Sydney Jaguar Drivers club, held at Bryson Industries main Jaguar showroom in Sydney City. They arrived a little late and were seated at a table at the front where Mum, Dad, Jessie my girlfriend and myself were sitting. So I was able to ask TWO nagging questions. Were they really going to make a Daimler V8 powered MK10, (as i'd read it in a book about Jaguars at the period most of the publicly floated shares were bought by BMC, then worse was to come when Leyland merged with BMC) AND Question two, what does "G" signify in 420G. Lofty was still really hostile about it and then it was 10 years later, as with Lyon's sons' random accidental death the whole V12 project slowed, then for a while stopped. However, then Sir Norman who had been chief tester at the time said that after a fueling and air breathing makeover was completed and with some further tweaks to keep the 4.5 v8 Daimler engine running cool they had achieved a higher horsepower output with better reliability than they had with any version of the twin cam v12's. Jaguars' new "masters" at BMC-Leyland got wind of it and when the day was right and all upper management away, everything to do with the 4.5 litre Daimler was confiscated and never seen again, from fully running ready to fit engines to spare parts to all tooling, ALL GONE. So they used the cast badges on the new Jaguar 420 sedan, which Lofty & Norman told me was really just to be a s-type update with the new nose cone to accommodate factory air conditioning units for USA dealers as they needed some more engine bay space & this clever update on the forward 1/3 mudguard pressing would cleverly do it and for near zero outlay of cash. NOW 2nd QUESTIOIN what does the "G" stand for or mean in 420G. At this same time after hot words over what the Jaguar men felt was pure theft of all the Daimler V8 components, the Jaguar guys got a further slap in the face as they were told to rename all the cars as 240, 340, 420 --- but there would have been TWO 420's the MK10 type and the new S type version with the mk10 type nose cone . RESULT the BMC-Leyland blokes felt that in Jaguar group's many parts bins there must be some decal or badge to delineate the difference, so they used the capital G off a GUY truck model, which is made of aluminium, and if you own a 420G that has been stood outside for a while the G will fret away, but the cast brass 420 cast script will still look perfect.
To Finish, Sir Norman Dewis reckoned it was a real travesty as they had sunk time and effort to refine that big V8, and right when they had just started building them as a production model they had the carpet pulled from under them, mostly they could use the newly created Daimler specific items on a renamed MK10 Jaguar and they did. But Sir Norman reckoned their modifications to make what should have been the Daimler Sovereign made what he felt was the best "Jaguar" ever as they had the engine delivering near 400 horsepower in basic street tune and it was able to do 170 MPH straight off the showroom floor, not only that but this would have made this hybrid version the fastest most powerful luxury car available anywhere at any price. My early 420G also is fitted with the specially created Koni Gas shocks made for this Daimler super car, so you get a nice comfy ride but when hard cornering the car will not lean or roll, to keep you from leaning or rolling on the seats ALL the Daimler Sovereign 4.5 litre "mk10's" were to be fitted with 4 seat (front & rear) Factory Inertia reel seatbelts in late 1966, my early 420G has these as well, specially made by Britax for this car too, the first ever inertia reel seat belts in any car. WE were duded by BMC -Leyland.
Some 40 years ago in the NSW Jaguar Drivers Club a member from Newcastle area in NSW had inherited his dad's Jag 420G and had a cylinder head gasket failure which led to a cracked engine block as well. Down in Sydney's western suburbs there was a Jaguar-Daimler breakers J&D spares they had a really nice Majestic Major that had been struck in the rear by a truck and wrecked. However, had a mint low mileage Daimler 4.5 litre V8 in it. My friend bought it and over a period of several months' weekends created his own Daimler Sovereign as both used a BW type8A automatic, the early MK10's both 3.8 litres and 4.2 litres used different engine mounting system, and with a mix of that and the 420G type system the engine fitted reasonably well, he manufactured his own unique air cleaner and soon the car was up and running. I drove it once completed in the early mid-80's and it had stunning performance, if you wished to be cheeky it could spin both rear tyres in a straight line impressive.
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I was sceptical about your story at first, as the timeline didn’t seem to fit. But having read a few bits about BMC and specifically Vanden Plas I reckon that there is something to the story.
Jaguar either merged with BMH or was bought out by them to form BMC (depending on what you read where!) in 1966. And the BMC Leyland merger was in 1968. Jaguar had owned Daimler since 1960 so they had 6 years to get a Daimler V8 Sovereign based on the Mk.X into production, which even by the standards of the day was plenty of time to get the job done. So the delay until 1966 does seem odd, but there was plenty to deal with, and a smaller Daimler was probably more pressing than a Majestic or Majestic Mayor replacement. And at first I couldn’t see why BMC would want to meddle that much with Jaguar and its Daimler subsidiary. Then I wondered why would want BMC to prevent development of new Daimler models? Vanden Plas popped into my mind! Who would VP in the 1960’s and what were they making? I knew it was part of BL later on, but had to look it up whether it was part of Leyland or BMC before the merger. They were owned by Austin from 1947 being the manufacturer of the Austin Princess saloon and Limousine until 1968 (the mixed use of Austin Princess and the VP Princess across a few different models of saloon and limousine is a bit odd mind). So the Daimler Majestic Major and the DR450 Limousine would have clashed with the Austin Princess Limousine produced from 1947 until 1968 (dropping the Austin name in 1957 and gaining the Vanden Plas brand name from 1960, both to allow for sale of the Princess Saloon and Limousine in all Nuffield Group dealerships).
It does make some sense in that context, although the DR450 and the Princess Limousine were both eventually replaced by the DS420 in the end. A rationalisation at least, but odd that they chose Daimler over there own VP, although the VP name and even the Princess name were both being used on more humble BMC models by the mid to late 1960’s (in a similar way to Ford with its Ghia brand), Daimler being a less diluted brand name and more closely linked with its fellow premium brand - Jaguar does make more sense even before the BMC Leyland merger.
One final note, I suspect that claim of 170mph is a bit rich! If both the Mk.X and the 420G were capable of 120mph and the Majestic Mayor was capable of 120mph, then even with improved air intakes the Daimler V8 in the lighter Jaguar platform would more likely be capable of 140mph tops. That said I’d be intrigued to try you fellow club members V8 engined Jaguar!
I do think JLR should offer to build King Charles a pair of EV Daimler State Limousine in the same way Bentley did with Queen Elizabeth II for her Golden Jubilee! I saw them a few times around London and on the A40 out near the RAF Northolt Airport.
@@teamhandsome1974 Hi there from Sydney. firstly, re the speed, it was Sir Norman Dewis that stated the speed potential, as it is written nowhere in any book I have read, he stated that both the Majestic Major & the MK10 used the Borg Warner type 8A automatic, which was used by many other companies with powerful engines. E.G. Jensen, Rover P5B withe the Buick v8, Facel Vegas, the Swiss Monteverdi's, to name but a few, However in the USA "Ford People" would know the same automatic as the C4 Cruise-O-Matic, it came with a variety of internal components, options and settings. E.G in a Lincoln with a very tall diff' for freeway use , with a internal switch pitch stator and ss=tall conversion kit and both a front & rear pump, you achieved 2 things, first is decent MPG from a vast 7litre v8 and second is enhanced performance even though s csr fitted withs tall diff for highways, so you get lower RPM at high speeds, this is achieved also by having a low 1st gear setting, then a big jump to second gear, however there is no jerk in the upshift a this has been wiped out with the extra internals, then also a big jump up to 3rd gear. E.G. 2, also fitted to a humble Ford F100 ute with a base level 390ci 6.4 litr v8 but used at low-speed hauling primary produce, where all that is needed is pure torque to pull a load in top gear, and no worry re fuel use, with a different set off internals you get a totally different outcome.
As a 6yr old in late 1981 my mum bought a new 3.8 litre MK10, the 3.8 versions had the horrible earlier Borg Warner DG automatic. This was upgraded to the new type 8A in late 1964 when the series 2 mk10's with the 4.2 litre engines came out. My mum updated her early car with the 2nd last new 420G sent here to Australia in March 1971, in 1975 as I bought a 1965 4.2 litre mk10 only affordable as it was left hand drive, and coming soon was all cars RHD in Australia remaining LHD cars were to be de-registered by the government and off the road. In 2012 I bought the early 420G. All 3 of these 4.2 liter examples were/are fitted with the B-W 8A automatic, however all had B-W 8A's but all were different and mum's 420G did not have a limited slip diff', however both mine did, this gave all 3 cars a completely different personality and feel. My first MK10 was owned by the Australian rep' to World Health Org' in Geneva, however he had a stroke aged 52 in 1974 and was sent back to Australia, this '65 model would see off any kind of 1960's exotic sports car as it had a tall diff centre for the European Autobahns and had the ultra-high output bronze head fitted being more powerful than an early 1970's V12 Jaguar plus mine gave decent MPG even if you drove it like a hooligan. My current 420G has what I would call the "rural" selection again with a tall diff for decent MPG , but also fitted with a decent selection of the performance enhancing internal parts. My mum's very late model 420G has the same 4.2 litre engine & comp' ratio as fitted to the early XJ6's, (less power, so lower diff' internals to assist 1st gear takeoffs in city areas, rather than for higher speed freeway use) and the same "poverty" spec internals as used also in early XJ6's.
So from a practical personal experience standpoint, I have seen the difference years ago in the '70's the difference between my '65 4,2 litre mk10, and back then mum's near new '71 420G, as she had a factory tow pack/bar on her car & I'd bought a old house at Bathurst, NSW, about 130 miles due west of Sydney, should I wish to use her gardening supplies little box trailer, or a bigger one we'd do car swap. On the 60 mile slope down the western slopes having gone over the 4,000 foot Blue Mountains, you found yourself in the de-restricted speed zone where you could do whatever speed you wished in mum's car even with an empty little trailer the car would get barely over 100mph, however in my '65 mk10 4.2l it would go just past 130 mph all in and was not even touching red line on tacho' as it had been ordered with the autobahn the setting.
So probably Sir Norman was correct with the 4.5 v8 as if ordered with the correct require internals, I'd seen the different outcomes in what were basically to look at 3 virtual identical cars. In my driving career I've owned 2 Ford products fitted with their C$ Cruise-O-Matics. One a '65 Lincoln Continental sedan with the 7litre FE/MEL v8 engine, and the other a '65 Ford Galaxie with a 6.4 v8 FE/MEL engine, the Lincoln was a Carter 2bbl carby but bigger engine, however the Galaxie had been ordered with a full transmission performance kit and was fitted with dual Carter 4bbl carbies, like a police pursuit car, this exact setup won Ford USA the Nascar trophy for 1965 with 48 wins out of 52 races, the next year 1966 saw Ford introduce the mew for '67 wide body Mustangs and near 2/3'rds the way through the year with 36 consecutive wins in Galaxies, they decided to swap to New Mustangs for the final races, and did not win another race. The type 8A box is very strange, different to most automatics as it has a dual range selector D@ means it starts in 2nd gear and on a hill you can remove your foot off the footbrake as it has automated "hill-hold", select D1 and it will ALWAYS start in 1st gear, now, L on the quadrant DOES NOT mean Low gear it means LOCKED UP, depending on a road speed sensor in the transmission it may select either 1st gear OR 2nd gear and will stay locked up until the transmission feels it is the correct time to move up one gear safeguarding the cars engine from being damaged through over revving, it is the same in the Jaguars versions of this gearbox.
Re selecting Jaguar to make the new corporate limousine, the MK10/420G body structure is one of the most rigid non-flex structures made anywhere from 1961 to 2024. WHY?? well Lyons' was well aware of the disaster bodies built by Budd Steel on behalf of Ford for the new '58 Lincolns & new '58 Thunderbirds all had terrible body flex issues and substantial warranty claims as brand-new cars. Either make could have the front windscreens pop out when backing or driving diagonally up onto a kerb, or in the shorter base model Lincoln Capri, the wrap around back screen could pop out. Lyons wanted none of this and designed a shell thickness that stopped any body flex, a 20" longer rear floor pressing was used on the DS420 limousine, new doors, new front & rear wings and new bonnet & boot lid pressing plus roof, all the massive Jaguar MK10/420G understructure was re-used with no changes. Consider this was a structure conceived in the 1950's and passed the USA crash test requirements until the last Daimler DS420 was built in late 1992, 30 years use ! The Jaguar mk10 based Daimler DS420's went on sale in 1968 at the same time as the new Jaguar XJ6's did. However the Daimler version the XJ based Sovereign 1B was held over in production until all stocks of the Sovereign 1A's were sold (the Jaguar 420 clone). Back in 1975 when Lofty England & Sir Norman Dewis sat opposite me I never thought to ask whether they intended to fit the 4.5 liter v8 Daimler engines into the new limousines too. Something they did say though was that initially on purchase of Daimler there were warranty issues re overheating in the Majestic Majors with the V8's, however they had a similar issue with early mk10's, but they canned the UK radiator manufacturer being used and swapped to USA GM's Harrisons' who had invented the modern crossflow style that cheats boiling point.
@@gregharvie3896 your comparison between the three engine and gearbox variants is very interesting. My Dad had a 420G manual with overdrive before I was born which he traded in for an XJ6 SWB with the same engine and gearbox. I was driven home from hospital in that XJ6 and remember it being parked up in our garage awaiting renovation in my childhood, but have no memories of riding in it before it was parked up. I’d love to try a Mk.X or 420G and am waiting patiently for my brother to finish recommissioning a Ser 1 1972 XJ12L to have a proper try of that too.
@@teamhandsome1974 Hi there again, the series 1 XJ long wheelbase cars are the ABSOLUTE BEST of all the 3 early XJ's 1,2 & 3, the 4-inch longer wheelbase makes all the difference. They were in response to the "killing off" of the 420G's for sale to the general public. Consider that out of just over 98,000 series 1 bodyshells, a mere 2600 were the LWB cars in all variants V12 or 6 cyl, Daimler or Jaguar, Left or Right-hand drive, also in the mix is 352 v12 Daimler Vanden Plas RHD's and just 1 LHD for Lyons when he went to the USA Jag HQ'. So when you get to a final split there were only near 300 of each version. The Series 1 LWB's also have a reinforced body shell to be compliant to the new USA 10 mph damage free crash test rules and the MK10/420G's were being still constructed until late 1975 as special-order cars for foreign governments. Back in xmas 1975 my dad's diplomatic neighbors in Pitt street Sydney was the Malaysian High Commissioner and rest of their team, they received 2 new 420g's in an unusual deep green, when I was looking at one it had the Aussie Federal compliance plate on it with month/year of construction and the later type factory air conditioning like my mums '71 model where there is a front outlet under the middle of the dash, shortening the front console and seeing a half size ashtray in the consol like those in an early XJ. It appears that the 420G's were kept alive for a while as their body structure was so strong it would exceed the fourth even more stringent USA smash test rules which eventually were never implemented as the third 10mph one caused major price increases and a lack of sales, coupled with the 1973/74 Arab oil embargo saw the US auto industry on its knees.
For 32 years I owned a special order LWB XJ6, ordered by Jacques Antoni who was the GM of Citra Constructions, a French company they were building the natural gas pipeline system all across Australia for the federal government. He did not want a Daimler Vanden Plas v12 with vinyl roof, but basically wanted a Jaguar 4.2 litre Vanden Plas and no vinyl roof, in Regency Red with Biscuit interior (natural leather with no dye cream color) complete with the VDP tall backed 4 seat set up and with tiple SU Carbs like in a mk10/420G. When you went to car shows in it people thought that it had been a personal creation, however then you could show them the build sheet as proof it was completely factory made, I sold it to a friend in 2012 when I bought my current 429G which in 2012 had a mere 50,020 miles on it from new in Jan'967 with log book servicing as proof over the past decade or so i have added another 40,000 miles and it has run like clockwork.
When comparing a series 1 long to a 420G, the 420G has way more punch as there were no anti pollution fittings, has a higher compression ratio and has the extra SU carby fitted, the other main difference is the XJ sits lower at the front, but has more compliant softer coils & shocks, and has the slower ratio rack & pinion steering. On my 420G is factory Koni GAS shocks (stiffer) and heavy duty coil springs so in a quick turn maneuver it stays flat , the Marles Ad-West variomatic steering box has a smaller turning circle as it allows the lead wheel in a turn to be at almost 90 degrees when you look at it sticking out from the wheel well. How I really see the two cars is that the MK10/420G was the premium best car of the two. However, the XJ was to cut construction costs and reduce the selling price and sell more cars while providing almost all the benefits as in the 420G, this was done by having bolt on front mudguards, eliminating the massive front wheel well shells welded into the MK10/420G's, and at the rear having the under half of the rear mudguard as also a bolt off panel. The extra real cost in the totally fully welded on panels would have cost a lot extra on mk10/420g's, also even the sound deadening underlay under the carpets is double the thickness in a 420G, having owned both types you can see where the savings were made.
Guy who used to run Forward Engineering many years who was an R&D engineer for Jag back in the day (Ron Beatty I think) told me that the 4.5 version of the MK10 would go round the test track at well over 100 mph for hour after hour at the hands of anyone who could get hold of the keys never missing a beat. He thought it was a much better car than the XK engined version and the reason it got binned was, in his opinion, the bruised ego's of the likes of Wally Hassan that saw it blocked from further development and sale.
Before my time my grandad had a string of these. He wasn't a rich man but he loved his cars.
My local vicar had one. He gave me a lift to school once when the bus didn't turn up. He put his foot down, and bragged " we are now doing a cool 90"....!!!
You're a jammy bastard mister 'Nut'.What a bloody lovely car
That's a proper car that is!
What a beautiful car, from a more elegant time for the motor industry. Terrific review as always, and excellent videography. Thank you Hubnuts!
That's a beautiful, calming but powerful engine rumble. What a machine.
If only this glorious engine was kept and enlarged to 3.0 litres and fitted to other cars, especially within the BL model range.
Certainly should have gone in the Triumph Stag instead of the expensively designed basket case it ended up with.
@Comfortzone99
It sounded good the Triumph V8. It was a bit of a pointless exercise.
Well there was the 4.5 litre big brother that Jag quickly ditched because it was more powerful than their 4.2 XK. The little one is sort of a Triumph 650 times four in a more complicated way than the Vanwall that had its roots in a Manx Norton single.
The most perfect 60 year old car.. I love everything about it.. (Phil)
So that's 3 V8 engines British Leyland could have selected for the Stag. They chose the wrong one
Sadly it was just bad timing. Triumph started development of the Stag V8 in 1965, ready to go in 1968 in 2.5 litre form. Triumph didn't become part of BL till 1968 and needed to recoup the money invested in the engine. The only decision taken by BL (under Triumph advisement) was delaying the Stag by a year (meant to launch in 1969, eventually 1970) to enlarge the V8 to 3 litres, to counter an increase in the Stag's weight which was 125 kilos heavier than the 2500 saloon. Also Triumph was hoping to sell the V8 to SAAB as a halo engine for the 99 (20 prototypes were made) but the Swedish company decided turbocharging was the way to go. Then there was an expectation that the V8 would replace the 2500PI in the saloon but the 1973 oil crisis intervened and the project cancelled.
Amongst the various videos on RUclips., in one, someone restored a Triumph Stag 3 litre, installing larger radiator and electric fan etc, the result was no over-heating. There is ANOTHER RUclips video where someone else restores another Stag 3 litre V8 using all original spec radiator core and original type fan etc and then put it through its paces with a myriad of temperature sensors all over it. it also had no overheating problem (BIG BREATH) "IF THE COOLING SYSTEM HAS BEEN BLED PROPERLY IN THE FIRST PLACE" . The biggest problem with the 3 litre v8 engines is that the cooling system needs to be properly bled of air when filling from empty. Many cars left the factory or dealership with unbled air pockets and this caused the overheating problems. A great wee engine ruined by poor quality control at the very end of the factory assembly process.
@@dcanmore Wow that is really interesting, thank you for sharing that information !
@@dcanmorevery interesting, thanks for that. A lesser known bit of history I should think
The Daimler V8 also turned out to be immensely strong and was used in drag racing with big superchargers and nitromethane fuel, making ~1000bhp back in the 70's.
This is a car I've sometimes imagined having. Much more exclusive than a Jag Mk 2, and that gorgeous engine
I'm one of those weirdos who really pays attention to the sound a car door makes when it shuts, and when you shut the rear door, it honestly sounded to me like a modern car.
My Dad had a white one with red leather back in the seventies ,the interior had the greatest smell of leather and wood and I loved the little triangle windows at the front.Classy car 😊
The older i get the more beautiful they become
Such true words. An eye-catcher the first time I saw one, I'll still cross the street to get a better look at a Mark IV today.
The history of Daimler with the last being 2010 reminded me how in my X-type (55plate), there was an option in the settings menu to change the boot screen on the satnav/touchscreen from Jaguar to Daimler
Did you?
@@caw25sha I did on my dad's, but only as I have a '98 Daimler 8 (X308)
@@caw25sha A few times, yes
New chapter of HubNut: Power, more is more!
As a kid in the 60's, a friend's mum had one. Silver w red leather, lovely looker, so was the car. She often filled it with us kids and take us up over the moors for ice creams & games. Sometimes go fast & leave Fords & Austins etc in her dust.
Dad’s mate Jack had one in the mid 60’s. He was very proud of his car. He used to tow a glider trailer and I recall he had a gearbox oil cooler fitted because the gearbox overheated when towing the heavy trailer.
I have a tiny engine F150 2.7 dual turbos and it steps out quite nicely, sounds no where as good as that old Daimler, you gotta Love that sound, to hear the conversations that had been carried on in that ole gal. Beautiful review, the dash is a work of art! The whole car is a work of art really!
Mine is the same year, 1964. Despite having a garage it parks on the drive so that I can admire the look of it when I walk past. The original radio does work but has never been turned on as I do the same as you when I drive, window open no matter what the weather to hear the gorgeous sound of the engine.
My English teacher had one of these in the early 70’s, in the same colour. It looked lovely.
I could imagine when that was released it would have been a real status car,owners probably living 15 miles outside of big cities in their country mansion.
Beautiful car! They should have put the 4,5 in it!
people have tried: it doesn't fit
but there are SP-450s. Terrifying!
Both the car and the hat are pure Arthur Daley.
WasMy Great-Grandmother's car...British racing green, Dad added PAS...good amount of wind noise at speed! Ours was D-reg...Love those spats covering the rear wheels - proper class even if the crinkly bonnet was a bit fussy...hey, suited the G-Granny and she drove it into her 80s
Timeless design. Still looks amazing today.
I have a 1968 Manual overdrive version of the 250. An absolute peach of a car! I love it!
Beautiful. I once had a manual one for the weekend and took it on a 400 mile round trip to a wedding where it upstaged the wedding car. Best bit was the jaunt with friends to the pub the day after, just sitting in the garden and looking at it in the sunshine.
Apparently only about 100 manual gearbox ones made!
@@womblechops Yes, I believe the manuals were quite rare. Those gearboxes were the Triumph Overdrive boxes I believe.
@@davidarter6271 Apparently, only the Daimler SP250 used a Standard/Triumph TR3A based gearbox: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_SP250
Such a stylish car. I love it.
There was a guy in our office in 1974 had an old one of these (silver grey, red leather). This was in an era when blokes in their 20s who had a car at all tended to have old minis, 1100’s etc (I had an Anglia I paid £90 for), but he had his Daimler V8 which I think he only paid about £200 for, from an uncle - though it probably wasn’t worth much more, he knew its history. He was a bit of a “young fogey” (tweed cap, corduroy trousers, brogues) from somewhere very rural and no doubt thought it fitted the image. We thought he was bonkers - this was just after the oil crisis and the price of petrol had rocketed and the value of thirsty cars had cratered, and the cost of any serious repairs would have been a month’s wages. But it was a gentleman’s club on (wire) wheels and a pleasure to be in.
I had an early Daimler Double Six VDP once. Badge engineered Jaguar but with much plushification. And an incredibly thirsty four carb engine, those engineers were very insistent on six cylinders good, twelve cylinders better.
One of my uncles had one of those, in a sort of metallic pink colour. Kingsbury's last great saloon.
I remember these when I joined a Jaguar main dealer back in 1976. I always recall that these engines were a bit smokey when cold. The older mechanics said the 4.5 engine was much better in reliability and performance. We had a few Daimler Majestic's in to repair, and they had the pre engagement gearbox. It had a clutch pedal that wasn't a clutch pedal....very strange setup.
I think you're confusing the 104, Majestic and Majestic Major : The 104 was the last with the preselect gearbox with the 'gear change pedal' which you describe as fitted with a clutch pedal that "wasn't a clutch pedal" ,...not a strange setup at all !...All Daimlers throughout the range,since the early 1930's, had all been fitted with the preselector box until 1957 or'58 :The 3.8 litre Majestic was the first to receive the BorgWarner auto DG box , and the MajMajor 4.5 litre was never given the chance to be developed any further , though a prototype 5 litre version developed by a curious Browns Lane , produced a genuine 300bhp , putting the Jaguar twin cam unit in the shade somewhat: I have owned 3 Majestic Majors over the past 45 yrs:
@@YellowDellow-s8i Yes, it was over 48 years ago.
The Mk.II has been my forever dream car, but I'm now old enough to appreciate the Daimler version more. Less sporty perhaps, but more relaxed and a bit more luxurious.
Answered my question about disc brakes while I was googling it. 4-wheel, impressive
The most lovely british engine!
I've seen that Daimler a few times at Cardigan Car Show, beautiful car. My uncle used to have Daimlers and Jags in the late 60s and early 70s (when I was a child), one of which was a Mark 2, I was always pleased when he visited as he took me out for drives in it out in North Pembs where I grew up.
I know that road you're driving on well, must have walked it hundreds of times!
The 3rd car i bought in my youth was a 1967 Daimler 2.5 V8, I really wanted a Jag MK2 but this Daimler was so cheap, Bought off an old fella who cherished it and it was in lovely condition, It set me back £450! Never gelled with it though as i really wanted a manual MK2, Had a few S-Type manuals and 3.4 MK2 manuals but now own a nice original 3.8 MK2 manual, The 3.8 in manual O/D form is the best Jag compact IMO.
Stunningly beautiful car.
I`ve had one, as well as a 66 S-Type, I will confirm the IRS equipped S-Type did ride & handle better, the V8 did have the edge aurally, although both sounded lovely through their relatively tiny pea-shooter exhausts!
My Dad had one of them exact Daimlers, he had it for over 40yrs in NZ It was the grey with red upholstery. Loved the sound and crackle the twin copper exhaust had when you floored it 😂
The beautiful jaguar mk2 body with the fabulous V8, fantastic car!
Wonderful review. When cars were built to be comfortable and beautiful. I loved it 🙂
Brings back memories of sorts. In the early-mid 70s, the proprietor of a corner shop linked to our local post office had one of these in this exact shade of gold. It was quite frequently parked in the street during opening hours.
As an owner of a Jaguar 340, a Daimler XJ6 and Edward Turner designed Triumph Bonneville this one really hit spot for me. Many thanks for a great vid !
I have a Daimler 250 V8 from 1965 that began life working for The Bank of England, definately a bankers car.great video Hubnut
The Daimler V8 was a very reliable engine particularly the 4.5 along with the stiff Daimler chassis which prevented a coach built body from flexing and creaking. The SP 250 was their first foray into own bodies so the weird looks can be forgiven. Daimler held the patent on the Fluid Flywheel until it expired during WWII, only licensing it to manufacturers that used their engines and certain commercial vehicle manufacturers such as London General Omnibus (LT) and the Associated Equipment Company (AEC).
Reliable? I had a 2.5 in 1975 with the usual burnt out valves and the big-ends on their way out after 75,000 miles, the parts were the same as the Triumph 650 engine and it was just as unreliable. Overheating was another issue if you nailed it as well. The back-end with quarter-eliptic springs was just rubbish and the brakes challenging, the handbrake in particular being effectively non-existent.
I had a 420G as a company car and privately moved up to a 3.8 S type though for some years we had a Majestic Major engine in the workshop ready for a transplant into the Daimler.
Rust killed them all in the end and I bought a 302 Camaro! A gentlemans transport it wasn't, fast and reliable it was.
@@jimtitt3571 My experience with them was pre Jaguar days with the ambulances, then later the big limousines and Conquests, never any problems that would have driven the fleet engineer to drink. Regular servicing was essential as is with any vehicle. Ours were serviced on a running hour basis as actual mileage quite low. Mainly in Central London and to LHR.
This or a P5b coupe? Well, I can dream...
If we're dreaming, then both, obviously.
I’d have the P5B coupe.
A beautiful car. Takes me back to my very early schooldays when my father owned a metallic light blue Jaguar Mark II 3.8, even back then I looked-out for the crinkled radiator cars having seen them listed in the annual London Motorshow magazine.
I drove a mark ii around 5 miles 20 years ago. Unusually, a local chap was selling one in Wexford, Ireland. It was the first time I drove a car that felt absolutely nothing like modern cars. (And that's modern as in anything from the 70's/80's onwards)
A man in our village has a white one it sounds lovely when it passes you have to stop what your doing 😊😊😊
Absolutely cracking car....i can smell the interior! We had a sovereign 4.2 in the 70s......but yes, it was a plush jag....
the entire interior, with the exception of the front seats, looks to be identical to that in my 1967 MK2.
Beautiful car,sounds wonderful.
Back in my childhood an older couple living a street away had such a V8 Daimler, same colour if my memory is correct.
What a good looking car it was back then and still is.
And what nice sound it made.
Years later I learned that it had this small 2.5 litre V8 engine.
Unfortunately the trend in small engines was not towards V8's. What a pity.
I've owned my Dame Zara -- a 1969 V8-250 -- for 18 years now and we recently passed 50,000 miles of driving. Overall it's on 201,700 miles on the original engine (one full rebuild and one set of replacement heads)
What a lovely old motor Ian. Loved the sound of the V8.
Great video
Great review and lovely car. You and the car looked well colour-coordinated.
Thanks Ian for showing us this lovely car and you knowledge of it
A true classic.Thanks for the spin, most enjoyable.
My Dad had one when I was about 10. He pulled the engine and blueprinted it (he was a mechanic) , he also repainted the car British Racing Green by hand in Enamel with a fine brush and then hand flattened and buffed it, it was a very fast car.
These are exquisite! Saw an E reg one 11 years parked outside and MOT station.
My favorite RUclips presenter on all things automotive. I agree that this model is a fine example of the marriage of Daimler and Jaguar. I love that small V8 too. You might be interested to know that Daimler carried on building the Limousine at Brown's Lane until 1992. By then ofcourse with the 4.2 ltr XK engine. . They would pass my window on their way out for road testing 😊
Indeed so. Rustival visitors may be able to see the very last DS420 if its on display.
Edward Turner was a Bona fide Genius. He was responsible for the Triumph Speed Twin of 1938 and his influence in motorcycle engineering persists to this day.
Not to mention his 1931 Ariel Square Four engine !
My father had a Mk II 240 as from 1968. Was about the same. He kept it till 1987 - despite Leyland XJ6 in the 70s.
Very smooth engine. Lacking in the, get you out of trouble, get up and go. Would probably suit me now that I'm old.
Saw one just yesterday next to me on my e bike. A sight to behold! Quite compact at 14 ft 11 long about the same as a Mk1 Mondeo, but more narrow at about 5 ft 7 wide, but despite that it looked incredibly solid, and had an imposing presence!
We owned a 1967 Jaguar 340 with the B/W auto which was equipped with the electric overdrive on 2nd and 3rd gear. This made for easy touring on the US freeways with the 3.4 liter XK six. I don't think I have ever seen the Daimler version in America.
A mate of mine had a manual with overdrive one about 40 years ago . I think it was one of only 127 that was specified with that option a beautiful very rare car bet he wishes he'd still got it .
My dad had one of these in the same colour. It had trays in the back of the seats that were great for a picnic. Loved that car.
Glorious! Nice bit of history there too. Daimler suffered in the Docker era too. This one has really been cared for 😊
Gorgeous! Always had a soft spot for the 2 and a half!
We put a 4.6 liter Chev V6 engine in one of those. Tight fit, but it worked very well.
My father's first Jag was a 1967/8 340 Mark 2, 4 speed with o/d and it was a splendid car to driven around in as ten year old boy.
A beautiful car. Love the proper wood interior, and the V8 sounds superb. Could hear the satisfying clunk of the doors closing, demonstrating the quality of the car. I wish I could afford one.
One of the best cars ever, in the age category! I absolutely adored mine!
The sound of this rolling gentlemen's club is magnificent! These cars are not really my cup of tea but nice to see and to hear. Thanks for this V8 road test and see you soon »»» Martin
Suits you Sir . 👍
My Dad had an SP and a Majestic Major limo, I got to drive both in my late teens and early twenties, including chauffeuring a couple of weddings in the Limo!
The SP completely spoiled me for any other engine, nothing has ever come remotely close for smoothness and sound (including the feeling of the sound, if that makes sense!). Driving through tunnels was a spiritual experience.
Very nice car Ian, a great opportunity to drive on. All the best for Rustival 2. Hope it all goes well. 😊👍
Absolutely lovely. I don’t care how fast it isn’t, that engine sounds sublime.
Nice. For a country known for its i4 and i6 engines, postwar Britain made at least six v8s. There's the Daimler 2.5 L and 4.5 L (imagine the 4.5L in a compact Jaguar), the Rolls Royce 5.2 L to 6.7 L range, the poorly conceived Triumph 3 L, the superlative Rover 3.5 L (later expanded to 5 L) and the Aston Martin 5.3 L. In 1996 Jaguar launched their first ever v8 with the AJ 3 L to 5 L range (also used by Aston Martin and Land Rover).
I always wondered what the 4.5 litre v8 would have been like in the later Daimler 420 which I had …….i bet it would have shifted 😉👌🏽
What a beautiful car.
A cracking video Ian. A great car with some great history. Once again it really is a shame that the development of such a promising engine was halted but I do understand the financial reasons why. Many thanks for sharing.
Amazing car! Even with that teeny (by U.S.standards) 2.5, it sounds a bit mean and very serious. I'm so glad you mentioned it has a hemi head design. I had wondered, but no other presenter I've seen ever mentioned it. I am a mopar guy from my childhood, and I think there is just a certain sound to a hemi. They always seem so velvety. we had a fifty six Desoto, and the 331 hemi was so smooth, passengers were telling mom it had died at stoplights. Anyway, I babble... thank you for a fab review of a delightful car.
NOTHING sounds sweeter than that V8
A neighbour had one of these in pale blue when I was a little bloke. Great noise - I loved listening to it.
What a beauty!
The history of the Daimler name was so interesting.
That powersteering noise would drive me around the bend.the original system powered off the dynamo on my 68 s type is brilliant.i like the mk2s but naturally prefer the s type.they handle,ride and have far better refinement .this v8 is a lovely sounding engine tho.
Hi Andy I am 67 years young And They say every day is a school day! Thanks for the information of that 2 1/2 L engine!. Stunning Car! Ps. Good camera work by Mrs. Hubnut !!.
Absolutely brilliant video ian miss hubnut ❤👍what a stunning example of when cars were built to last beautiful car brilliant
Those rear arch spats are just beautiful
great car - and nice to see Cardigan, Poppit and St Dogmaels on a sunny day
I don't remember what the differences were but there were bodywork differences between the Sovereign and the XJ6. After leaving school I briefly worked for a firm called Park Sheet Metal who made all the panels which were different on the Daimler version. As an apprentice piece one lad was making a complete TR6 shell and panels from scratch.
As someone who grew up in Sheffield I've looked at the history of Bambers. It was a car showroom for many years, eventually becoming a Gilders showroom who were main VW agent in the area (it began selling VWs when the Beetle was launched), now part of JCT600. The Cambridge Street premises is now a Wetherspoons!
I now live in Leeds, but can't find anything about Bambers Headrow. The only link is an advert for the company on a railway bridge in Wakefield, advertising Bambers for 'SS' cars, which of course was the original name for Jaguar.
That is a delicious motorcar...V8 burble. Class.
What a beautiful car and that sound...
Must be one of best sounding 2,5 engines 😎
What a simply beautiful car.
You do have a good job Ian, and get to ‘work’ with miss camera lady