Very informative video. I'm old school player from the 1970s and I was able to meet and visit a HOF Ballard Congress inductee, Bert Schrager. He made many custom cues and I was fortunate to buy three Schrager cues from him. Very talented individual with many inlays, linen wraps or simulated leather and all maple shafts. Bert used a filament type of plastic for his joints as to eliminate a bounce or shaft click by not using a metal insert. Bert's original shop was in North Hollywood, CA when I met him. Later years he and his wife Pat, moved to Lake Isabella. Both are now deceased for many years. A truly wonderful man.
A decent player can use any cue to be fair, I recently bought a Cuetec Florian Kohler Avid series, was completely different to my previous cue but after a few games there was no difference
Totally agree. A good player will quickly adjust to anything. Pros will play with whatever company will give them cash as a sponsor. At some point, it’s just wanting a change, or a desire for something that looks pretty.
Great video! It was cool to hear others opinions on such an individual decision. One thing I would add for someone buying their first cue is make sure you like the look of the cue. While that doesn’t really affect playability if you like the way it looks you’ll want to use it more. Since you don’t really know what you like feel wise if it looks good you’ll play more and figure it out. Again great video, I’m looking forward to seeing more from this channel!
I brought a pool table that came with 2 very light cue sticks so I went to Watson's my son found a carbon fiber one for 40 and I brought me a viking Vahalia cue for 113 dollars which comes with a lifetime warranty I'm a beginner so right now I can't tell the difference thanks so much for making this video I have a lot to learn
Been playing for 50 some years. My take on cues is - select a butt you LIKE, wrap/wrapless, pin size, diameter of holding area, cosmetics, weight adjustable and if all the boxes are checked - see how it hits, if you like the hit (good) if not - you have quite a few good aftermarket shafts to choose from. Nothing like that new shaft feel. Choose wisely.
You guys did a great job on this. Very thorough and I appreciate the production value. I hope you guys keep up the good work, and continue making content. I really like your channel. Pool is on the ascension!
*DEFINITELY AGREE THERE ARE "SELLING MISTAKES" NOT BUYING MISTAKES. EVERY CUE I SOLD, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND AGAIN, EVEN ON EBAY. WISH I NEVER SOLD THEM. CANNOT FIND THE CUES I HAVE PURCHSED, ALOT OF CUSTOM CUEMAKERS HAVE PASSED ON AND CURRENT MAKERS ARE GROSSLY OVER PRICED*
Great video. I've owned many cues including Southwest, Schon and more. I'm thinking of going back to a more simple Joss in the 600. range with a medium tip.
Predator icon 4-5, cuetec 11.8 carbon with a sniper tip,18.4 weight, balanced 19 from the butt. That's what my journey has brought me to so far. Love the game
My personal opinion, the most underrated carbon fiber low squirt shaft on the market is the Jacoby BlaCk V4.0 (pick your favorite soft tip) which blows everything else I’ve extensively played with. But, totally my opinion. I love their 19” pro taper and the Kamui Clear Black Soft tip that comes standard on the shaft wouldn’t have been my first choice (I like HOW TITAN soft tips better) but I’ll be damned it plays perfect as is! I play the BlaCk V4.0 with my Predator 3.1 Throne uni-loc joint and with my Jacoby HB5 radial joint and both feel incredible which makes it the best shaft on the market for me
I have the Jacoby black on my Reeves custom cue, and I also play with a pechauer p18r with the rogue shaft and jade medium tip. I feel that they play similar, but it depends on the table where I play. The Jacoby will play great on one table, and the rogue will play better on another. Two places I play have predator cloth, and the other has simonis.
I like this "round-table" of ideas . ....Thank you..... A good addition would have identified the skill leavel of each participant , ( with equal weight to each ) . I assume the moderator is the higher S/L but the opinion of lesser S/L players is interesting also.
Thanks for watching. The way we present the info and cast varies from video to video. Our cast is "mainstay" so they are reoccurring players that our viewers can relate to and follow along with. Some episodes grant us the ability to provide the player skill info, others do not. With the live stream format, we have to decide how/what best to provide in terms of graphic info. You can also find an in-depth bio of each player on our website: seekinggravity.com
This video is fascinating. And I agree about the price-point you're discussing around the 19 minute mark. My setup is a Lucasi Custom (which I know is still a production cue, though limited, numbered production). Let's just say it's high-quality produced. $425 retail at the time I bought it, but it was comped down some because it was the closest to what had been over-sold which I initially wanted. LZC-28 butt. I have a custom shaft that is purple heart core wood with a carbon fiber sleeve overlay, custom-fitted to the Lucasi butt. So when all is said and done, about $725 - $800.
If you're new to pool and you like the game buy an inexpensive two piece cue. In time ,as you become more skilled, retire that cue and purchase a high quality cue. You might have to experiment with different cue tips but once you've worked that out you'll have a cue that will potentially last forever. My cue is over 20 years old. Still looks new and plays exceptionally well.
I think that once you get over $600-$800 you're paying more for decorative crafting like more intricate inlays, exotic materials for those inlays and other non-functional aspects of the cue. I just priced out McDermott's current COTM (G210C3) which started at $450 with a standard G-Core shaft (already an outstanding shaft), then upgraded to an iProSlim shaft with the carbon fiber core over maple. It's a really good-looking cue which comes standard with a linen wrap and with the upgrade came out to $600 with shipping. I suspect it will play just as well as $3,000 cue.
If you dont mind me asking, what does the Gcore being to the table. Deflection is high like any maple shaft, the core got inserted carbon so its stiff hit, literally feel like using a hard tip every time. What make it outstanding to you and worth $450 while buying an Avid cuetec is $250 or a Cuetec carbon + any cheap $50 butt custom from Joss would give you greater performance? Im just curious about the g core really..
Great video! The advice you guys gave in this video is tremendous and very helpful! I think everyone that is buying a new cue should watch this video and buy a cue straightness tester. We had a 7’ Brunswick pool tab covered by stuff in our basement for the past 15 years. We finally got around to cleaning up the basement and we uncovered the table. This was a 3 year process. I started playing again, really enjoyed it, and I wanted to get a nice cue. With your advice and prayer, I purchased the Predator 4 Point Sneaky Pete Black / Blue Points Linen Wrap Pool Cue and the REVO 12.4 shafts. Based on all of my homework, I thought this was the best route to go and the advice that was given about using a carbon fiber shaft from the get go is great advice. I do love it and I think I saw improvement in my game right away. We also upgraded our table to a Brunswick 9’ table. Thank you for making the video and for all of your great advice!
I looked it up and nearly had z heart attack with the price point. My comfort economic zone was 450.00 dollars for a cue. I cant even get some shafts for that price at Predator😮
What I do when recommending to new players, is when deciding on your first cue, pay no attention to appearance. You really want to find the cue that feels right. That will help you narrow down to what make of cue you want. Then decide how much you want to spend on appearance. For me the biggest decision is joint type - steel is the most solid, Implex/Delrin in the mid, and wood to wood joint is the softest hit. That and shaft type will have the most impact on your game.
I would like to hear what is better about their second cue compared to the first, that would be interesting. Especially since I am still using a very old 180z mcdermott and it shoots great, my shooting has a long way to go to get tournament ready but still I am above average in shooting with it.
It's so cool when you can go to a store with 1,000 cues and try to play with them. When you live in a city with 100 thousand people, you can only go to a European or American manufacturer's website, choose a cue and wait 3 months for it to arrive and hope that it won't be crooked, it won't be broken, it won't be scratched, and there will be a tool with which you can adjust it to your own feelings
I started with a Viking Valhalla, an entry level maple cue. As I did more research I was impressed with Predator's story of developing the 314 and eventually the Revo shafts. As a life-time machinist, patents mean something. So if Predator came up with L/D in the 1st place...why buy someone else's imitation? I tried a 314 on the Valhalla n loved it. Took the Plunge on a Curly Maple Grey P3 12.4 Revo not too long after n never looked back! Love the solid feel of that cue in my hands and I know that when I miss...It ain't the cue. Added an 11.8 Revo to the mix n the accuracy of that shaft is phenomenal! I've only cried the day I paid the cash out, but been smilin ever since!😁
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you took the proper path with your gear purchases (by not buying a high end cue right out of the gate) and let your skills grow, and raised your cue performance with your skill. In regards to other brands, and why pick them (over the patented company)… competition is a good thing and spurs the evolution of products. If Ford never had competition, we’d all still be strolling a model T! The best cars in the world today certainly aren’t made by ford, so that leaves anticipation for the next evolution in cue sports.
Appreciate the informative video. Really like the topics as I haven’t came across other videos with the same discussion. Im also curious as to what the midrange cue was and setup, that your group liked in the test. Is this something that can be shared?
Hey there. It’s been so long since we filmed this, I can’t recall what the cue was. Typically the various price ranges will usually present the same general characteristics when it comes to “performance.” Of course, all of players will have different preferences in what they like with a hit, and as we hammer home in the video, best to get into a shop and hit some sticks so you can not only discover what you like but what you don’t like as well. :)
In shooting cues 3 McDermott, 1 Balabushka, 1 Joss, 1 Predator, 1 JFlowers, 1Bull, 1 Viking, 1 Cue-tec SVB. All have 2 wood and 2 fiber shafts. JI Jane 1 is none 2 is one and I got carried away. 3 break cues 2 McDermott, 1 predator. Also deluxe cue smith lathe, I do repairs and re-tipping. All have How Titan tips medium
A custom cue maker told me that basically any cue over 300 dollars will be more than enough in terms of quality. The thousand dollar cues are costly due more to the ring work and and intricate inlays.
We’ve found that “peak” performance can be had in the 600-1500 range (this is ballpark and dependent on brand). The highest performing shafts alone cost well more than $300. But agreed that after that peak performance cost, you’re simply buying an intricate design, exotic materials, or otherwise increase perceived value that will not reflect in higher play potential.
I’ve played with straight wood cues for 55 years, no low deflection shafts, bought a carbon fiber from a friend so I knew I would have a warranty, the test when I bought it was a all on the center diamond against the rail, shot off the kitchen line in the center Andra the ball down the rail both ways in two shots so I bought it, tried to play with its can’t control it, it will do way more than I could ever do so it’s in my case, break jump cue came about because I always played with soft tips, couldn’t break any more, the phenolic tip gave me the power back, old age is taking my control away, those 8-9’s come fewer and farther apart, I play with a 15oz 63 in custom cue, plated a lot snooker years ago with a 12oz 60in 10mm tip, I learned to use a crutch early as when I started playing snooker as I was 5’2” and 75lbs when I got my first drivers license
I'm a long time pool player and my main playing cue is a Joss custom sneaky pete I had made in 03. I used the standard maple shaft for it for about a year then moved to gen one predator 314. I honestly loved how the 314 felt but ultimately moved to a gen one OB1 shaft because I came across an incredible deal of snagging it for only $100. I've now been shooting with the same OB1 shaft and Joss but combo for 13 years now but have found myself tempted to move to kielwood. I've shot with some friends carbon fiber shafts and ultimately it just felt like shooting with a slightly better fiberglass shaft. My main question though is this, is Kielwood a solid jump from an OB1 shaft or negligible?
Rob is our only player who has personal experience shooting Kielwood. I've asked him to reply if he has any feedback for you. But I think what most experienced players will tell you is that it all boils down to personal preference, your equipment history, what you have the most experience with, and therefore have most comfortability/predictable hit with. If there was truly a "better" or "best" shaft out there, all of the top players would shoot the same thing, but yet you see a smattering of all types of shafts getting played at the highest level. Another recommendation would be to find something that you feel really good with and stick (pun intended) with it. Just like any other component of your cue, like tips for example, changing any aspect of it changes the way it plays and how you need to adjust for those changes.
@@MattMcDaniel - Agreed. In theory Carbon (low deflection) should be better but it hasn't translated to the real world. Personally speaking, I don't see any ground breaking stick in the near future. Cues haven't improved much in the last 40 years. Most of the improvements are just things that have little impact on actual tournament play.
More of your skill level that makes you a good player ,not just how much you pay for a Cue. Growing up in the 80's I could walk into a bar and win against a lot of people who had their own sticks and I used a bar Cue. These people were on a pool league and were ranked pretty high .
It’s an unanswerable question due to the personal taste of the player. There are also trends, just like anything else in life, that become the “hot” thing to do. A few years back, super soft tips were what people wanted. Now it seems people are gravitating towards medium to medium-firm tips. Of course there are some things that are a fairly safe statement, like you wouldn’t want a phenolic break tip on your playing cue or something so soft that consistency is unobtainable. But there is a vast range that end up being a players preference, all the way from super soft to a very hard leather tip. Best advice would be to get some time with various tips so that you know what you like, and then the important thing is to stick with a certain type for a while so you can truly dial in your game with it. Lots of people are guilty of always switching tips. That’s like a basketball player constantly changing the weight or size of a ball and expecting to get better at the game. Find something you like, commit to it.
Also, there have been many studies done, and they all found that tip hardness did not determine how much or little spin can be applied. It seems counterintuitive but it’s true. So, again, find the tip that you connect with best and stick with it. You can get the ball to do what you want regardless of hardness.
Given that we use our playing cue for a minimum of 10-to-1 to any other cue (and probably more like a 20-1 ratio), we gave playing cues priority for the discussion. We may loop back around and do breaking/jumping cues. Happy shooting!
That's fair honestly and very true. It all obviously depends on what the person themselves likes and can afford. Whether like wood or carbon fibre or even graphite/fiberglass cues or whether they care about deflection or even design. Of course then it depends on what brand of tips you'd like and you would use
The butt doesn't matter its the shaft that's important and if you have 300-500 dollars and you want a good performing cue from a top brand then get a jflowers or a cuetec avid. Both of those cues are around 300-500 and low deflection. The Cuetec avid is a wood line of cues but my friend has one and it shoots smooth and jflowers is basically a budget carbon fiber cues and lots of people love their cue line and if you want a carbon cue but don't have the money for a top line predator line like the ikon series then I suggest you get jflowers. Now another brand of Carbon cues that are around 300 are Konllen cues they're not so well known but my friend has one and it feels good too. Predator does have some cheaper line cues but if you want a nice butt design too then get jflowers. My new cue costed 1700 because it's a peri break butt that of course comes with the break shaft so Jayson Shaw's break cue but I use it as a playing cue so I got the 12.4 revo shaft in there and I definitely shoot way better with my 1700 cue then the first starter budget cue I have.
Konllen and JFlowers are the same cue according to many sources. In fact Konllen is now selling both cues on Amazon. I played with a Konllen for a couple hours and really like it. The balance is perfect for what I like. I currently have an Avid 12.25, which is a darn good stick not just for the cheap $225 price, but just a very good cue overall. In fact I like it better than my $500 Meucci.
i played with a 100 Doller cue by duffrin and i won all kids of torney and i won't trade my cue for 1000 cue.. been playing for over 35 years and the tip is all it maters..
I believe carbon fiber is the material of choice selected due to its high rigidity and low weight characters. So, by nature it's going to be "low deflection." With that said, all manufacturers have their own recipe and design methods, giving them all a different feel to the hit and slight variances in play. I believe I remember hearing commentary of a recent match Josh Filler was in. He has been going back and fourth from wood to carbon, but the current versions of his carbon shafts are custom made for him intentionally with more deflection than the normal Revo shafts. Quite interesting.
If you have the budget for it, SCHON CUES in my opinion - is the best cue out there. Next choice would be JOSS WEST from the mid 1970's I prefer LD maple shaft. Right now I use a Schon with a OB maple low deflection shaft. One other thing... your TIP is the most important part of your cue. It pays to get an expensive multi layer leather tip. Keep an eye on the shape of the tip. Once it starts to flatten, you will need to shape it properly or ask someone who knows how to properly shape a tip to do it for you.
Weight and shaft (and tip but that can be changed later) are the only two factors that matter. Everything else is personal preference but doesn't really affect play. I make proper cues, not cheap American reproductions.
Biggest tip I can think to add is this: when you get a new case, moving forward ALWAYS , ALWAYS clean the tip with a lightly damp paper towel and then the shaft then wipe dry. Never put a dirty tip n shaft into your case again. It will keep both clean and grit free.
I knew a man when I was in my 20's he would ask the bar for a mop or broom stick. He would unscrew the handle and play with it. I watched him win game after game and run the table a lot.
*NO ONE EXPLAINS HOW TO SELECT A CUE OR CUE DIFFERENCES. JUST ASKING WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST CUE?* I COULDNT STAND THE WAY A SCHON PLAYS. JOSS CUES ALL THE WAY, BETTER THAN ANY CUSTOM CUE I BOUGHT, PLAYABILITY.*
Hmmm....Effren came here to play using a $15.00 cue and beat everybody in Texas, then others came to Texas and he beat them, always using elkmasters 1 piece soft tips, and cheap chalk. I believe had he not succomed to other countries influences when it came to upgrading his cue that won him tons of cash, that he still would have won every high end game that he won with more expensive cues later on.! My first cue I bought at k mart, eventually, I upgraded to a 50 dollar cue in the mid sixties, and next to a McDermott and then back down to a fifty dollar players cue, about a decade ago.! I now have 2 players cues and a break cue that's illegal.! I will never be Effren, or any of the big names, I play because I love the game. But still to me, it is the person behind the cue who is the controller, not the cue itself.! Give me a good 1 piece soft leather tip, A straight wood shaft, preferably maple, A glove, some masters chalk and a cue case, and I'm ready to play anyone anywhere, win or lose.! Oh... I forgot, I won a cue at the county fair also for a buck.! It had Budweiser decals all over the butt.! Played just as good as my player cues until the shaft warped.! Won lot's of 1-5 dollar games with that cue back in the early sixties.!
Thanks for sharing. Yes, it will always boil down to the shooter holding the stick. Or maybe it’s best summed up by saying that a cue defined as “highest level of performance” carries the greatest potential inside of it for any given player. Much like handing a child the keys to a Ferrari, who doesn’t even grasp the concepts of steering, brake, throttle, etc, will not manage to drive it any faster than an 80’s Civic without the developed skills to tap into the greater potential.
Exactly. The player just needs something straight, good tip, and hits solid. You can find tons of solid sticks for less than $350. And actually, there are quite a few out there for under $150. After you get past the basic solid stick and tip, it's 99.9% the player and finding a stick they're comfortable with.
I continue to be amused by people. I believe it's the swordsman and not the sword. I use any decent wood stick. I'm way above average in my 3 leagues.😊
So. Many. Innuendos. There is a reason why runners wear light clothes, sprinters use spiked shoes, gloves in countless sports. You’ll probably have many “above average” people arguing all these points in said sports as well. An established player in any sport with skill would be foolish to not equip the best performing gear. Precision, consistency, and confidence are all priceless qualities to go into battle with. Good luck with your… sword.
I have always played English 8 ball and was in many pub pool teams. I had to get good because sometimes I was homeless, and the pub was warm and dry. Later, when I became a Christian, I started helping homeless people, and there was this one guy who came into the centre, and he asked me for a game. Later he told me about a local pool hall and I went along to it and we met another friend of his. He said, "Do you play 9 ball? I had never heard of 9 ball. But as soon as I started playing, I was hooked, I even bought a couple of cues off him, a preditor playing cue and a Lucassi jump cue. I only play 9 ball now.
Really there's no guide to choosing a cue other than playing alot with different types of cues. This is what the beginner should be focusing on in regards to getting a new cue. The beginner really should be focusing on 1. Playing for money against better players. This is THE best way to get good at Pool. 2. Don't join leagues if you want to become a good player, play $$ tournaments, gamble, and practice the weaknesses. 3. Play as many games as possible, don't play league 8 Ball/ 9 Ball, Play Straight Pool, One Pocket, Caroms, Chicago (15 Ball Rotation), 10 Ball, Banks heck, even give Straight Rail Billiards, 3 Cushion Billiards, Pyramids and Snooker a try. 4. Play all the time and study the best, then when you are playing, visualize what Shane, Efren or Earl would do with this or that shot. 5. Try these things they do, you'll never learn nor even master these shots unless you try them.6. The biggest mistake beginner and league players make is that they confuse winning with being a good pool players. Beginners shouldn't even care about winning and losing 'specially next to learning the game. This tends to lead to using their individuality as an excuse for not learning stroke, ball pocketing, cue ball control. Close mindedness leads to veteran league players who never improved in all those years stuck in mediocre mud. Don't join leagues become a Pool Player, not someone who plays pool
Ha ha what nonsense and lies for millions dollars company to make money what guide the cue is not important any cue could play and win Efren win a world championship with a 10 dollars cue why not choose a cue with out a tip no body talks about tips because it cheap the tip of your cue is the most important thing in pool
Very informative video. I'm old school player from the 1970s and I was able to meet and visit a HOF Ballard Congress inductee, Bert Schrager. He made many custom cues and I was fortunate to buy three Schrager cues from him. Very talented individual with many inlays, linen wraps or simulated leather and all maple shafts. Bert used a filament type of plastic for his joints as to eliminate a bounce or shaft click by not using a metal insert. Bert's original shop was in North Hollywood, CA when I met him. Later years he and his wife Pat, moved to Lake Isabella. Both are now deceased for many years. A truly wonderful man.
A decent player can use any cue to be fair, I recently bought a Cuetec Florian Kohler Avid series, was completely different to my previous cue but after a few games there was no difference
Totally agree. A good player will quickly adjust to anything. Pros will play with whatever company will give them cash as a sponsor. At some point, it’s just wanting a change, or a desire for something that looks pretty.
You don't pick the cue, the cue picks you!!!!
lol ok Mr. Potter.
Is not the arrow but the Indian 😂😂😂
*OK CUE PICKS ME, BUT WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT CUE?*
Isn't that the truth. Well said
@@PostUp_Time Mexico, like they did for the border wall🤣
Great video! It was cool to hear others opinions on such an individual decision. One thing I would add for someone buying their first cue is make sure you like the look of the cue. While that doesn’t really affect playability if you like the way it looks you’ll want to use it more. Since you don’t really know what you like feel wise if it looks good you’ll play more and figure it out. Again great video, I’m looking forward to seeing more from this channel!
THE "LOOK" OF A CUE? MEANWHILE ALL DIMENSIONS AND BALANCES ARE OFF AND YOU WILL MISS EVERY SHOT.
I brought a pool table that came with 2 very light cue sticks so I went to Watson's my son found a carbon fiber one for 40 and I brought me a viking Vahalia cue for 113 dollars which comes with a lifetime warranty I'm a beginner so right now I can't tell the difference thanks so much for making this video I have a lot to learn
Carbon fiber for $40? That’s highly impossible.
@@LvLdGhost hey I will send you the brand I could be wrong but Brought it at Watsons
@@LvLdGhost probably graphite not carbon fiber
Been playing for 50 some years. My take on cues is - select a butt you LIKE, wrap/wrapless, pin size, diameter of holding area, cosmetics, weight adjustable and if all the boxes are checked - see how it hits, if you like the hit (good) if not - you have quite a few good aftermarket shafts to choose from. Nothing like that new shaft feel. Choose wisely.
*THE SHAFT CHANGES EVERYTHING ABOUT THE CUE. TRY A DIFFERENT TAPER AND TIP DIAMETER AND WILL BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CUE*
You guys did a great job on this. Very thorough and I appreciate the production value. I hope you guys keep up the good work, and continue making content. I really like your channel. Pool is on the ascension!
Much appreciated!
Awesome videos guys!! This channel WILL blow up!! Top quality and one of a kind guys keep it up!!!
Thanks so much! Hopefully you can join us on the adventure of discovery, and share with your friends. We will all grow from the experience.
*DEFINITELY AGREE THERE ARE "SELLING MISTAKES" NOT BUYING MISTAKES. EVERY CUE I SOLD, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND AGAIN, EVEN ON EBAY. WISH I NEVER SOLD THEM. CANNOT FIND THE CUES I HAVE PURCHSED, ALOT OF CUSTOM CUEMAKERS HAVE PASSED ON AND CURRENT MAKERS ARE GROSSLY OVER PRICED*
Great video. I've owned many cues including Southwest, Schon and more. I'm thinking of going back to a more simple Joss in the 600. range with a medium tip.
Predator icon 4-5, cuetec 11.8 carbon with a sniper tip,18.4 weight, balanced 19 from the butt. That's what my journey has brought me to so far. Love the game
Watched the whole thing…what a helpful video!
My personal opinion, the most underrated carbon fiber low squirt shaft on the market is the Jacoby BlaCk V4.0 (pick your favorite soft tip) which blows everything else I’ve extensively played with. But, totally my opinion. I love their 19” pro taper and the Kamui Clear Black Soft tip that comes standard on the shaft wouldn’t have been my first choice (I like HOW TITAN soft tips better) but I’ll be damned it plays perfect as is! I play the BlaCk V4.0 with my Predator 3.1 Throne uni-loc joint and with my Jacoby HB5 radial joint and both feel incredible which makes it the best shaft on the market for me
I have the Jacoby black on my Reeves custom cue, and I also play with a pechauer p18r with the rogue shaft and jade medium tip. I feel that they play similar, but it depends on the table where I play. The Jacoby will play great on one table, and the rogue will play better on another. Two places I play have predator cloth, and the other has simonis.
Try an ignite if you haven’t. The Jacoby is a nice shaft but the ignite is a step up IMO.
I like this "round-table" of ideas . ....Thank you..... A good addition would have identified the skill leavel of each participant , ( with equal weight to each ) . I assume the moderator is the higher S/L but the opinion of lesser S/L players is interesting also.
Thanks for watching. The way we present the info and cast varies from video to video. Our cast is "mainstay" so they are reoccurring players that our viewers can relate to and follow along with. Some episodes grant us the ability to provide the player skill info, others do not. With the live stream format, we have to decide how/what best to provide in terms of graphic info. You can also find an in-depth bio of each player on our website: seekinggravity.com
This video is fascinating. And I agree about the price-point you're discussing around the 19 minute mark. My setup is a Lucasi Custom (which I know is still a production cue, though limited, numbered production). Let's just say it's high-quality produced. $425 retail at the time I bought it, but it was comped down some because it was the closest to what had been over-sold which I initially wanted. LZC-28 butt. I have a custom shaft that is purple heart core wood with a carbon fiber sleeve overlay, custom-fitted to the Lucasi butt. So when all is said and done, about $725 - $800.
Thanks for the watch and detailed comment! Lots of fun stuff coming your way - subscribe and stay tuned!
If you're new to pool and you like the game buy an inexpensive two piece cue. In time ,as you become more skilled, retire that cue and purchase a high quality cue. You might have to experiment with different cue tips but once you've worked that out you'll have a cue that will potentially last forever. My cue is over 20 years old. Still looks new and plays exceptionally well.
I think that once you get over $600-$800 you're paying more for decorative crafting like more intricate inlays, exotic materials for those inlays and other non-functional aspects of the cue. I just priced out McDermott's current COTM (G210C3) which started at $450 with a standard G-Core shaft (already an outstanding shaft), then upgraded to an iProSlim shaft with the carbon fiber core over maple. It's a really good-looking cue which comes standard with a linen wrap and with the upgrade came out to $600 with shipping. I suspect it will play just as well as $3,000 cue.
If you dont mind me asking, what does the Gcore being to the table. Deflection is high like any maple shaft, the core got inserted carbon so its stiff hit, literally feel like using a hard tip every time. What make it outstanding to you and worth $450 while buying an Avid cuetec is $250 or a Cuetec carbon + any cheap $50 butt custom from Joss would give you greater performance?
Im just curious about the g core really..
i was hoping to hear about break and jump tips. phonalic vs bullet proof or bulls eye or what every they are called. Thanks i enjoyed this vidio.
Great video! The advice you guys gave in this video is tremendous and very helpful! I think everyone that is buying a new cue should watch this video and buy a cue straightness tester. We had a 7’ Brunswick pool tab covered by stuff in our basement for the past 15 years. We finally got around to cleaning up the basement and we uncovered the table. This was a 3 year process. I started playing again, really enjoyed it, and I wanted to get a nice cue. With your advice and prayer, I purchased the Predator 4 Point Sneaky Pete Black / Blue Points Linen Wrap Pool Cue and the REVO 12.4 shafts. Based on all of my homework, I thought this was the best route to go and the advice that was given about using a carbon fiber shaft from the get go is great advice. I do love it and I think I saw improvement in my game right away. We also upgraded our table to a Brunswick 9’ table. Thank you for making the video and for all of your great advice!
I looked it up and nearly had z heart attack with the price point. My comfort economic zone was 450.00 dollars for a cue. I cant even get some shafts for that price at Predator😮
What I do when recommending to new players, is when deciding on your first cue, pay no attention to appearance. You really want to find the cue that feels right. That will help you narrow down to what make of cue you want. Then decide how much you want to spend on appearance. For me the biggest decision is joint type - steel is the most solid, Implex/Delrin in the mid, and wood to wood joint is the softest hit. That and shaft type will have the most impact on your game.
great guide
I would like to hear what is better about their second cue compared to the first, that would be interesting. Especially since I am still using a very old 180z mcdermott and it shoots great, my shooting has a long way to go to get tournament ready but still I am above average in shooting with it.
I’ll pick up any cue with a okay tip, fairly straight, and be able to play with it.
It's so cool when you can go to a store with 1,000 cues and try to play with them. When you live in a city with 100 thousand people, you can only go to a European or American manufacturer's website, choose a cue and wait 3 months for it to arrive and hope that it won't be crooked, it won't be broken, it won't be scratched, and there will be a tool with which you can adjust it to your own feelings
I started with a Viking Valhalla, an entry level maple cue. As I did more research I was impressed with Predator's story of developing the 314 and eventually the Revo shafts. As a life-time machinist, patents mean something. So if Predator came up with L/D in the 1st place...why buy someone else's imitation? I tried a 314 on the Valhalla n loved it. Took the Plunge on a Curly Maple Grey P3 12.4 Revo not too long after n never looked back! Love the solid feel of that cue in my hands and I know that when I miss...It ain't the cue. Added an 11.8 Revo to the mix n the accuracy of that shaft is phenomenal! I've only cried the day I paid the cash out, but been smilin ever since!😁
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you took the proper path with your gear purchases (by not buying a high end cue right out of the gate) and let your skills grow, and raised your cue performance with your skill.
In regards to other brands, and why pick them (over the patented company)… competition is a good thing and spurs the evolution of products. If Ford never had competition, we’d all still be strolling a model T! The best cars in the world today certainly aren’t made by ford, so that leaves anticipation for the next evolution in cue sports.
Please show us each cue or a whats in the bag video
Appreciate the informative video. Really like the topics as I haven’t came across other videos with the same discussion. Im also curious as to what the midrange cue was and setup, that your group liked in the test. Is this something that can be shared?
Hey there. It’s been so long since we filmed this, I can’t recall what the cue was. Typically the various price ranges will usually present the same general characteristics when it comes to “performance.” Of course, all of players will have different preferences in what they like with a hit, and as we hammer home in the video, best to get into a shop and hit some sticks so you can not only discover what you like but what you don’t like as well. :)
41:19 "I don't mess with my butt any more, I just play with Shawn's" pure gold 😂
How no one broke even a smile there is impressive, that was hilarious to hear lol
It has been said that pros don't use low deflection cues.
In shooting cues 3 McDermott, 1 Balabushka, 1 Joss, 1 Predator, 1 JFlowers, 1Bull, 1 Viking, 1 Cue-tec SVB. All have 2 wood and 2 fiber shafts. JI Jane 1 is none 2 is one and I got carried away. 3 break cues 2 McDermott, 1 predator. Also deluxe cue smith lathe, I do repairs and re-tipping. All have How Titan tips medium
Would you say how titan medium is the best medium and what are your thoughts on tiger onyx medium?
A custom cue maker told me that basically any cue over 300 dollars will be more than enough in terms of quality. The thousand dollar cues are costly due more to the ring work and and intricate inlays.
We’ve found that “peak” performance can be had in the 600-1500 range (this is ballpark and dependent on brand). The highest performing shafts alone cost well more than $300. But agreed that after that peak performance cost, you’re simply buying an intricate design, exotic materials, or otherwise increase perceived value that will not reflect in higher play potential.
very good video. very informative.
I’ve played with straight wood cues for 55 years, no low deflection shafts, bought a carbon fiber from a friend so I knew I would have a warranty, the test when I bought it was a all on the center diamond against the rail, shot off the kitchen line in the center Andra the ball down the rail both ways in two shots so I bought it, tried to play with its can’t control it, it will do way more than I could ever do so it’s in my case, break jump cue came about because I always played with soft tips, couldn’t break any more, the phenolic tip gave me the power back, old age is taking my control away, those 8-9’s come fewer and farther apart, I play with a 15oz 63 in custom cue, plated a lot snooker years ago with a 12oz 60in 10mm tip, I learned to use a crutch early as when I started playing snooker as I was 5’2” and 75lbs when I got my first drivers license
I'm a long time pool player and my main playing cue is a Joss custom sneaky pete I had made in 03. I used the standard maple shaft for it for about a year then moved to gen one predator 314. I honestly loved how the 314 felt but ultimately moved to a gen one OB1 shaft because I came across an incredible deal of snagging it for only $100. I've now been shooting with the same OB1 shaft and Joss but combo for 13 years now but have found myself tempted to move to kielwood. I've shot with some friends carbon fiber shafts and ultimately it just felt like shooting with a slightly better fiberglass shaft. My main question though is this, is Kielwood a solid jump from an OB1 shaft or negligible?
Rob is our only player who has personal experience shooting Kielwood. I've asked him to reply if he has any feedback for you. But I think what most experienced players will tell you is that it all boils down to personal preference, your equipment history, what you have the most experience with, and therefore have most comfortability/predictable hit with. If there was truly a "better" or "best" shaft out there, all of the top players would shoot the same thing, but yet you see a smattering of all types of shafts getting played at the highest level. Another recommendation would be to find something that you feel really good with and stick (pun intended) with it. Just like any other component of your cue, like tips for example, changing any aspect of it changes the way it plays and how you need to adjust for those changes.
@@MattMcDaniel - Agreed. In theory Carbon (low deflection) should be better but it hasn't translated to the real world. Personally speaking, I don't see any ground breaking stick in the near future. Cues haven't improved much in the last 40 years. Most of the improvements are just things that have little impact on actual tournament play.
Great
More of your skill level that makes you a good player ,not just how much you pay for a Cue. Growing up in the 80's I could walk into a bar and win against a lot of people who had their own sticks and I used a bar Cue. These people were on a pool league and were ranked pretty high .
You all forgot about chalk the different chalks .....
What would be the best cue tip for a beginner or intermediate level player? Medium so not to much spin is accidentally transferred
It’s an unanswerable question due to the personal taste of the player. There are also trends, just like anything else in life, that become the “hot” thing to do. A few years back, super soft tips were what people wanted. Now it seems people are gravitating towards medium to medium-firm tips.
Of course there are some things that are a fairly safe statement, like you wouldn’t want a phenolic break tip on your playing cue or something so soft that consistency is unobtainable.
But there is a vast range that end up being a players preference, all the way from super soft to a very hard leather tip. Best advice would be to get some time with various tips so that you know what you like, and then the important thing is to stick with a certain type for a while so you can truly dial in your game with it. Lots of people are guilty of always switching tips. That’s like a basketball player constantly changing the weight or size of a ball and expecting to get better at the game. Find something you like, commit to it.
Also, there have been many studies done, and they all found that tip hardness did not determine how much or little spin can be applied. It seems counterintuitive but it’s true. So, again, find the tip that you connect with best and stick with it. You can get the ball to do what you want regardless of hardness.
Well you have to buy a playing cue and a break cue and then a jump cue too
Given that we use our playing cue for a minimum of 10-to-1 to any other cue (and probably more like a 20-1 ratio), we gave playing cues priority for the discussion. We may loop back around and do breaking/jumping cues. Happy shooting!
That's fair honestly and very true. It all obviously depends on what the person themselves likes and can afford. Whether like wood or carbon fibre or even graphite/fiberglass cues or whether they care about deflection or even design. Of course then it depends on what brand of tips you'd like and you would use
Predator low deflection shaft with a Kamui tip
Great 👍🏿 Video!!!
Thanks for the visit, lots more coming!
The butt doesn't matter its the shaft that's important and if you have 300-500 dollars and you want a good performing cue from a top brand then get a jflowers or a cuetec avid. Both of those cues are around 300-500 and low deflection. The Cuetec avid is a wood line of cues but my friend has one and it shoots smooth and jflowers is basically a budget carbon fiber cues and lots of people love their cue line and if you want a carbon cue but don't have the money for a top line predator line like the ikon series then I suggest you get jflowers. Now another brand of Carbon cues that are around 300 are Konllen cues they're not so well known but my friend has one and it feels good too. Predator does have some cheaper line cues but if you want a nice butt design too then get jflowers. My new cue costed 1700 because it's a peri break butt that of course comes with the break shaft so Jayson Shaw's break cue but I use it as a playing cue so I got the 12.4 revo shaft in there and I definitely shoot way better with my 1700 cue then the first starter budget cue I have.
Konllen and JFlowers are the same cue according to many sources. In fact Konllen is now selling both cues on Amazon. I played with a Konllen for a couple hours and really like it. The balance is perfect for what I like. I currently have an Avid 12.25, which is a darn good stick not just for the cheap $225 price, but just a very good cue overall. In fact I like it better than my $500 Meucci.
Great content!
Thanks for the watch! Next release is tomorrow. :)
i played with a 100 Doller cue by duffrin and i won all kids of torney and i won't trade my cue for 1000 cue.. been playing for over 35 years and the tip is all it maters..
are there normal carbon fiber shafts without low deflection ? i want to buy one but i am used to play shitty house cues.
I believe carbon fiber is the material of choice selected due to its high rigidity and low weight characters. So, by nature it's going to be "low deflection." With that said, all manufacturers have their own recipe and design methods, giving them all a different feel to the hit and slight variances in play. I believe I remember hearing commentary of a recent match Josh Filler was in. He has been going back and fourth from wood to carbon, but the current versions of his carbon shafts are custom made for him intentionally with more deflection than the normal Revo shafts. Quite interesting.
If you have the budget for it, SCHON CUES in my opinion - is the best cue out there. Next choice would be JOSS WEST from the mid 1970's I prefer LD maple shaft. Right now I use a Schon with a OB maple low deflection shaft. One other thing... your TIP is the most important part of your cue. It pays to get an expensive multi layer leather tip. Keep an eye on the shape of the tip. Once it starts to flatten, you will need to shape it properly or ask someone who knows how to properly shape a tip to do it for you.
What's the cheapest?
if you want to improve your game, play money game with your own $. and ofcourse cue matters.❤
Magical thinking run wild. Get a Dufferin and good elkmaster tip and practice.
Where in the states are you located.
We are in the Seattle/Tacoma area.
22.27 Ash shaft are no deflection
Weight and shaft (and tip but that can be changed later) are the only two factors that matter. Everything else is personal preference but doesn't really affect play. I make proper cues, not cheap American reproductions.
Biggest tip I can think to add is this: when you get a new case, moving forward ALWAYS , ALWAYS clean the tip with a lightly damp paper towel and then the shaft then wipe dry.
Never put a dirty tip n shaft into your case again. It will keep both clean and grit free.
Seeking Gravity seems pretty down to earth...
🥁🥁
I knew a man when I was in my 20's he would ask the bar for a mop or broom stick. He would unscrew the handle and play with it. I watched him win game after game and run the table a lot.
*NO ONE EXPLAINS HOW TO SELECT A CUE OR CUE DIFFERENCES. JUST ASKING WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST CUE?* I COULDNT STAND THE WAY A SCHON PLAYS. JOSS CUES ALL THE WAY, BETTER THAN ANY CUSTOM CUE I BOUGHT, PLAYABILITY.*
Do you recommend Joss West or the original Joss pre 400 series?
Hmmm....Effren came here to play using a $15.00 cue and beat everybody in Texas, then others came to Texas and he beat them, always using elkmasters 1 piece soft tips, and cheap chalk. I believe had he not succomed to other countries influences when it came to upgrading his cue that won him tons of cash, that he still would have won every high end game that he won with more expensive cues later on.! My first cue I bought at k mart, eventually, I upgraded to a 50 dollar cue in the mid sixties, and next to a McDermott and then back down to a fifty dollar players cue, about a decade ago.! I now have 2 players cues and a break cue that's illegal.! I will never be Effren, or any of the big names, I play because I love the game. But still to me, it is the person behind the cue who is the controller, not the cue itself.! Give me a good 1 piece soft leather tip, A straight wood shaft, preferably maple, A glove, some masters chalk and a cue case, and I'm ready to play anyone anywhere, win or lose.! Oh... I forgot, I won a cue at the county fair also for a buck.! It had Budweiser decals all over the butt.! Played just as good as my player cues until the shaft warped.! Won lot's of 1-5 dollar games with that cue back in the early sixties.!
Thanks for sharing. Yes, it will always boil down to the shooter holding the stick. Or maybe it’s best summed up by saying that a cue defined as “highest level of performance” carries the greatest potential inside of it for any given player. Much like handing a child the keys to a Ferrari, who doesn’t even grasp the concepts of steering, brake, throttle, etc, will not manage to drive it any faster than an 80’s Civic without the developed skills to tap into the greater potential.
Exactly. The player just needs something straight, good tip, and hits solid. You can find tons of solid sticks for less than $350. And actually, there are quite a few out there for under $150. After you get past the basic solid stick and tip, it's 99.9% the player and finding a stick they're comfortable with.
I continue to be amused by people. I believe it's the swordsman and not the sword. I use any decent wood stick. I'm way above average in my 3 leagues.😊
So. Many. Innuendos.
There is a reason why runners wear light clothes, sprinters use spiked shoes, gloves in countless sports. You’ll probably have many “above average” people arguing all these points in said sports as well.
An established player in any sport with skill would be foolish to not equip the best performing gear. Precision, consistency, and confidence are all priceless qualities to go into battle with. Good luck with your… sword.
I have always played English 8 ball and was in many pub pool teams. I had to get good because sometimes I was homeless, and the pub was warm and dry.
Later, when I became a Christian, I started helping homeless people, and there was this one guy who came into the centre, and he asked me for a game.
Later he told me about a local pool hall and I went along to it and we met another friend of his.
He said, "Do you play 9 ball? I had never heard of 9 ball.
But as soon as I started playing, I was hooked, I even bought a couple of cues off him, a preditor playing cue and a Lucassi jump cue.
I only play 9 ball now.
most top players use ash
Really there's no guide to choosing a cue other than playing alot with different types of cues. This is what the beginner should be focusing on in regards to getting a new cue. The beginner really should be focusing on 1. Playing for money against better players. This is THE best way to get good at Pool. 2. Don't join leagues if you want to become a good player, play $$ tournaments, gamble, and practice the weaknesses. 3. Play as many games as possible, don't play league 8 Ball/ 9 Ball, Play Straight Pool, One Pocket, Caroms, Chicago (15 Ball Rotation), 10 Ball, Banks heck, even give Straight Rail Billiards, 3 Cushion Billiards, Pyramids and Snooker a try. 4. Play all the time and study the best, then when you are playing, visualize what Shane, Efren or Earl would do with this or that shot. 5. Try these things they do, you'll never learn nor even master these shots unless you try them.6. The biggest mistake beginner and league players make is that they confuse winning with being a good pool players. Beginners shouldn't even care about winning and losing 'specially next to learning the game. This tends to lead to using their individuality as an excuse for not learning stroke, ball pocketing, cue ball control. Close mindedness leads to veteran league players who never improved in all those years stuck in mediocre mud.
Don't join leagues
become a Pool Player, not someone who plays pool
9 ball cues are terrible. People choose them because they’re painted in Stars and Stripes, flames or Harley Davison motifs 😂
Spot the snooker player 😂
@@bmac7885 I’ll get my coat 😂
Snooker cues haven’t evolved since before women could vote 🤷♂️
🤷🏼♂️
It's easy. Get a custom cue from a reputable maker. Dont buy into mass produced items. They play dead. No love in them.
Custom looks great but its not always consistent such as the balance point.
Nows not the time to pick a cue they all overpriced
Ha ha what nonsense and lies for millions dollars company to make money what guide the cue is not important any cue could play and win Efren win a world championship with a 10 dollars cue why not choose a cue with out a tip no body talks about tips because it cheap the tip of your cue is the most important thing in pool
Ive got a mutichy since 85 paid $150 and still playing with it