Awesome! I like your teachings on body mechanics. I must have absorbed some of it somewhere from you because I built 2 saw benches for the reason you are describing. One is a split top, the other is built like a tiny little roubo complete with a couple of hold fast holes. Because of a bad knee, I can't hold the wood by putting it on top of the piece and bearing weight on it. This is where the hold fasts work for me. I use both benches together so often it amazes me. I have to admit, there are a couple of scars in them from the circular saw too. Yup...I use them all the time for lots of purposes. Even as a stand for finishing at times and to stand on to get things from higher places. The most useful build I ever did for the shop.
Shannon as you mentioned, there is no bad way to cut a board, unless it's uncomfortable, awkward and it's crooked...the additional saw horse is definitely an improvement, so, thanks for your comment and I'll try the "new" way. Best.
The "traditional sawbench" became a thing a number of years ago, probably as a result of people looking at some old plates, and woodworking writers needing something to write about. But it's not actually very useful, for all the reasons you stated. For narrow boards, your workbench is better. For wide boards, you need to work off the side. And for long boards, (or almost any boards, really), you're only at the right angle for sawing for a very short portion of he cut, and you need to find a way to hold the board up as you move it so that you're sawing in the "sweet spot". What you re-discovered was the idea of sawing between two sawhorses! When they're made the right height for hand sawing (most commercial ones are way too high for hand sawing), they're great for both crosscutting and ripping. I've pretty much given up my sawbench in favor of two knee-height Japanese-style sawhorses, after discovering that the sawbench was actually not such a good idea after all. The horses also have the virtue of being collapsible, to save space in a small shop. The sawbench is still nice to sit on while thinking about what to do next, though... :)
I like your bent - I always tend to make my sawbenches in pairs, so I've never actually considered how one could be used as a bench height extension as well.
Hey, Shannon, I appreciate your lessons on cutting. I've got a rather large challenge: I've got some 9-11" wide 5/4 sapele that I want to resaw for the a king sized headboard and footboard l, so we are talking about re-sawing 70+ inches Into approximately 1/2" or 3/8" planks. Any ideas (outside of a pit saw :) for that? Around 48" is the longest I ever see people rip or resaw by hand? Also, in this case, should I plane one face flat before sawing? Some days, I wish I had a 40" band saw. :) Unfortunately, the only mill I have found requires you to buy the woods to be milled from them.
Absolutely, look at the video I put out last week on resawing and watch that 48" frame saw in use. I sawed a 9" wide board in that demo, 11" would be no problem either. I've done Sapele as well and while it would be a bit slower than the demo, not much. Expect 1" of cut every 45 sec or so when you're first learning to use it for that wide of cut. But why do you need planks that thin for a headboard/footboard? Are you making slats? Anticipate plenty of movement and cup. I don't bother flattening 1 face first unless it is significantly cupped in the rough
Nice lesson in body mechanics! I know it isn't practical in your shop (with your height), but it looks like your saw bench is the right height to stand on for good position to rip a board clamped along the side of your main workbench.
Does the saw bent have any other purposes or uses? The thin, hurdle-like design makes me wonder why a person would use it over a set of saw horses or saw benches.
The slim design is a space saving issue. The pair nest together cleanly and fit up against the wall taking up VERY little space. As far as other uses they work just the same as a saw horse. The top rail is set to the same height as my workbench and as you saw the cross bar is the height of my saw bench. Throw a piece of plywood on top or similar and you have a place to finish or assemble parts. Essentially they are sawhorse just without the traditional A frame design
I'm not sure why you wouldn't simply take more advantage of the slot in your bench, allowing the saw the saw to move along the path of the rip rather than move the stock forward, and then, if necessary, flipping the work end-for-end and starting from the other edge when the action became a problem? Thanks for your videos, by the way.
I'm still a hand-tool novice, but would like to present an idea that just occurred to me. What about vertical ripping? I have seen lots of videos of wood clamped in a vise vertically for re-sawing, and it seems that it's not a crazy notion that the wood could be supported in a similar orientation for regular ripping. Envision a square post or other vertical support to which the work piece could be clamped at a convenient height, with the work piece placed so the cut line is out beyond the post edge, on whichever side you favor depending on your "handedness". Start cutting at the top, and work down. I see a downside to this that one does not have gravity to assist on the push stroke as with sawing on a bench (but then, there's also no gravity to fight when returning the arm back, either.) Upside is that a vertical support may take up less floor space, and with the piece clamped to the support you don't really need to move it while working down OR to hold it steady, which frees your non-sawing hand to hold (catch) the work-piece when approaching completion of cut. I may try this soon somewhere in my basement where I have exposed studs and lally columns. Thoughts?
Jeff Mazur absolutely it is a legit method and the way you describe is the best way to do it since the post would support the board fully and cut down on vibration. I'm not a fan of vertical ripping at a workbench in a vise as you can't support the board well. I just used the method you described in another shop with exposed beams in the middle of the space.
While I think having a saw bench is a great jig tool or accessory whichever you may call it, in a small shop it takes up more space. I vertical rip all my boards with a hand saw and I find it actually enjoyable to do so. Building and using a saw bench is a lot of fun though. I just do not see any real need for having one in my shop.
i am by no means an expert. i am an enthusiast with a good eye for detail. just an observation but why have a gap down the length of the bench if you aren't going to use that puppy? is that thing just for looks or what? just move the cut to correspond with the line of the gap and problem solved. if the bench were wider then you could use that gap even more to your benefit because then you could line up your body so that the gap is more directly below your left shoulder keeping your cut and body mechanics more in line. i find for myself that ripping boards is far easier if i'm standing up and facing the piece. this gives me much more room and ability to keep a good posture for the cut. when i was first learning how to rip with hand saws i watched Paul Sellers use his bench vice to hold the piece and thought that is really a great way to hold pieces up to 4ft long and a foot wide as most benches are around 34~36in tall. i would like to make a sturdy bench that can hold a longer piece for ripping but be more flexible when it comes to width and the only conclusion i could come up with is a longer wider bench like yours except i would make use of the gap to help me make the cut. thanks for the video.
My dad used to tell me... boy quit trying to be a “man” and prop the other end of that board up so I do have to buy another one “. LOL Guess my daddy was pretty smart for an old man. He taught me a lot though. Some things he told me how to do them right but he couldn’t explain why.
Ray Roberts is correct, your saw bench design, how can I say this politely....sucks. I have seen a couple of designs that work without the need to constantly advance the work forward. Simply said, two platforms that are joined at the bottom will give you the desired results. Think of it as a "U" frame with the flat surfaces on top. Think about what you are trying to accomplish.
You appear to be too large of a man for the size of you're shop - everything appears on the very edge of constriction - not necessarily physical constriction but psychological constriction - I get claustrophobic watching. Incidentally, my shop space(s) are too small for me also. Keep up your good videos.
OK then, how is the design affecting the performance? What design would you suggest to improve it. Also what manipulation are you talking about? You mean moving the board during the cut?
I wish more of my teachers back in skool were as enthusiastic about their subject, I might have paid more attention! Thanks Shannon
Greetings from Canada. Sir you're absolutely beast! I am going to sign up for online class before the end of this month
Awesome! I like your teachings on body mechanics. I must have absorbed some of it somewhere from you because I built 2 saw benches for the reason you are describing. One is a split top, the other is built like a tiny little roubo complete with a couple of hold fast holes. Because of a bad knee, I can't hold the wood by putting it on top of the piece and bearing weight on it. This is where the hold fasts work for me. I use both benches together so often it amazes me. I have to admit, there are a couple of scars in them from the circular saw too. Yup...I use them all the time for lots of purposes. Even as a stand for finishing at times and to stand on to get things from higher places. The most useful build I ever did for the shop.
Great method! I am going to have to play with that.
Building both this weekend. Great lesson thanks.
both saw bents or a bent and a sawbench? I ask because having a pair of saw bents can be really handy
Saw bents and sawbench.
Shannon
as you mentioned, there is no bad way to cut a board, unless it's uncomfortable, awkward and it's crooked...the additional saw horse is definitely an improvement, so, thanks for your comment and I'll try the "new" way.
Best.
Awesome stuff here, Thank you Shannon!
Is that a Silver No. 1 hanging on your wall there? I have one, can't wait to set it up.
The "traditional sawbench" became a thing a number of years ago, probably as a result of people looking at some old plates, and woodworking writers needing something to write about. But it's not actually very useful, for all the reasons you stated. For narrow boards, your workbench is better. For wide boards, you need to work off the side. And for long boards, (or almost any boards, really), you're only at the right angle for sawing for a very short portion of he cut, and you need to find a way to hold the board up as you move it so that you're sawing in the "sweet spot".
What you re-discovered was the idea of sawing between two sawhorses! When they're made the right height for hand sawing (most commercial ones are way too high for hand sawing), they're great for both crosscutting and ripping. I've pretty much given up my sawbench in favor of two knee-height Japanese-style sawhorses, after discovering that the sawbench was actually not such a good idea after all. The horses also have the virtue of being collapsible, to save space in a small shop. The sawbench is still nice to sit on while thinking about what to do next, though... :)
Great information, thanks for posting your video! But, I would love to hear about the saw you used! Lovely.
Its a Bontz Toolworks saw. A prototype that he is working on for full size hand saws. Its not in production at the moment.
I like your bent - I always tend to make my sawbenches in pairs, so I've never actually considered how one could be used as a bench height extension as well.
I want a water wheel to do the donkey work sometimes. Beautiful saw.
Hey, Shannon, I appreciate your lessons on cutting. I've got a rather large challenge: I've got some 9-11" wide 5/4 sapele that I want to resaw for the a king sized headboard and footboard l, so we are talking about re-sawing 70+ inches Into approximately 1/2" or 3/8" planks. Any ideas (outside of a pit saw :) for that? Around 48" is the longest I ever see people rip or resaw by hand?
Also, in this case, should I plane one face flat before sawing? Some days, I wish I had a 40" band saw. :) Unfortunately, the only mill I have found requires you to buy the woods to be milled from them.
Absolutely, look at the video I put out last week on resawing and watch that 48" frame saw in use. I sawed a 9" wide board in that demo, 11" would be no problem either. I've done Sapele as well and while it would be a bit slower than the demo, not much. Expect 1" of cut every 45 sec or so when you're first learning to use it for that wide of cut. But why do you need planks that thin for a headboard/footboard? Are you making slats? Anticipate plenty of movement and cup. I don't bother flattening 1 face first unless it is significantly cupped in the rough
Nice lesson in body mechanics! I know it isn't practical in your shop (with your height), but it looks like your saw bench is the right height to stand on for good position to rip a board clamped along the side of your main workbench.
MR McCormick huh? Why would I need to do that?
RenaissanceWW Kust an alternative to having to prop long boards up on another support.
MR McCormick oh I see what you're saying
Excellent!!! Thanks!
Does the saw bent have any other purposes or uses? The thin, hurdle-like design makes me wonder why a person would use it over a set of saw horses or saw benches.
The slim design is a space saving issue. The pair nest together cleanly and fit up against the wall taking up VERY little space. As far as other uses they work just the same as a saw horse. The top rail is set to the same height as my workbench and as you saw the cross bar is the height of my saw bench. Throw a piece of plywood on top or similar and you have a place to finish or assemble parts. Essentially they are sawhorse just without the traditional A frame design
I can appreciate that. Thanks for the information!
I'm not sure why you wouldn't simply take more advantage of the slot in your bench, allowing the saw the saw to move along the path of the rip rather than move the stock forward, and then, if necessary, flipping the work end-for-end and starting from the other edge when the action became a problem? Thanks for your videos, by the way.
I'm still a hand-tool novice, but would like to present an idea that just occurred to me. What about vertical ripping? I have seen lots of videos of wood clamped in a vise vertically for re-sawing, and it seems that it's not a crazy notion that the wood could be supported in a similar orientation for regular ripping. Envision a square post or other vertical support to which the work piece could be clamped at a convenient height, with the work piece placed so the cut line is out beyond the post edge, on whichever side you favor depending on your "handedness". Start cutting at the top, and work down. I see a downside to this that one does not have gravity to assist on the push stroke as with sawing on a bench (but then, there's also no gravity to fight when returning the arm back, either.) Upside is that a vertical support may take up less floor space, and with the piece clamped to the support you don't really need to move it while working down OR to hold it steady, which frees your non-sawing hand to hold (catch) the work-piece when approaching completion of cut.
I may try this soon somewhere in my basement where I have exposed studs and lally columns.
Thoughts?
Jeff Mazur absolutely it is a legit method and the way you describe is the best way to do it since the post would support the board fully and cut down on vibration. I'm not a fan of vertical ripping at a workbench in a vise as you can't support the board well. I just used the method you described in another shop with exposed beams in the middle of the space.
While I think having a saw bench is a great jig tool or accessory whichever you may call it, in a small shop it takes up more space. I vertical rip all my boards with a hand saw and I find it actually enjoyable to do so. Building and using a saw bench is a lot of fun though. I just do not see any real need for having one in my shop.
I could cut square and true too if I was left handed... haha keep up the good work
i am by no means an expert. i am an enthusiast with a good eye for detail. just an observation but why have a gap down the length of the bench if you aren't going to use that puppy? is that thing just for looks or what? just move the cut to correspond with the line of the gap and problem solved. if the bench were wider then you could use that gap even more to your benefit because then you could line up your body so that the gap is more directly below your left shoulder keeping your cut and body mechanics more in line. i find for myself that ripping boards is far easier if i'm standing up and facing the piece. this gives me much more room and ability to keep a good posture for the cut. when i was first learning how to rip with hand saws i watched Paul Sellers use his bench vice to hold the piece and thought that is really a great way to hold pieces up to 4ft long and a foot wide as most benches are around 34~36in tall. i would like to make a sturdy bench that can hold a longer piece for ripping but be more flexible when it comes to width and the only conclusion i could come up with is a longer wider bench like yours except i would make use of the gap to help me make the cut. thanks for the video.
Why not try ripping halfway down the board and then flip it end for end to finish it up?
P Lemieux yes that's another common method.
This is good, but what happens when you have crappy bad knees? Then what?
Then you should watch this, ruclips.net/video/DkmT_p9saN4/видео.htmlm46s, this video is also linked in the end screen suggestions BTW
My dad used to tell me... boy quit trying to be a “man” and prop the other end of that board up so I do have to buy another one “. LOL Guess my daddy was pretty smart for an old man. He taught me a lot though. Some things he told me how to do them right but he couldn’t explain why.
this sawing style might be why so many traditional sawbenches have angled legs and no center slot.
W1ldt1m I agree completely. A narrow top and splay legs and a pair of them with the joiner sawing in between.
So make your saw bench longer????.....
Pasha Hart sure that's a viable solution, assuming you have the space.
That's what I was thinking, if you have enough room for the bench and the saw horse then just make a bench twice as long
Did anyone else have to sit through an ironic Festool ad?
Ray Roberts is correct, your saw bench design, how can I say this politely....sucks. I have seen a couple of designs that work without the need to constantly advance the work forward. Simply said, two platforms that are joined at the bottom will give you the desired results. Think of it as a "U" frame with the flat surfaces on top. Think about what you are trying to accomplish.
You appear to be too large of a man for the size of you're shop - everything appears on the very edge of constriction - not necessarily physical constriction but psychological constriction - I get claustrophobic watching. Incidentally, my shop space(s) are too small for me also.
Keep up your good videos.
Poor sawbench design... that's why you are having to manipulate things too much...
OK then, how is the design affecting the performance? What design would you suggest to improve it. Also what manipulation are you talking about? You mean moving the board during the cut?