I just watched a twenty-minute video on Permobil caster flutter on a generation 3 M5 pwc by 'Totally Normal'. He's been in an F3 with aggressive tread tires. The video is eight years old, but he's presently very satisfied w his '23 F3 and was successful in stopping caster flutter on the older Permobil mentioned - interesting. Also, he assured that 'fixing' or working on the flutter problem won't void the warranty as the issue in considered a defect in parts/ workmanship. He did mention Permobil uses larger casters than previously, at some point. Eight-inch casters on m3, m5, f3, f5, presently. It occurs to me that the aggressive tread tires are slightly larger in width and diameter than the standard tread tires and they come with rear fenders, adding 7.5 mph plays a part. My initial in home F5 demo, the Numotion Rep. suggested standard tread for my use in Southern Indiana, adding the aggressive tread have softer tread compound and more open tread (wear faster). I thought that was a weird thing to say as we get a healthy amount of snow down here and the more frequent tire/ wheel replacements means more money for my vendor. That said, it's funny that Permobil's every picture pwc advertised has aggressive tread tires. Hmm.
You don’t have enough weight on your rear wheels. Tighten the tensioner for your springs on both sides. A screwdriver is all you need to turn the nut that’s at the end of the spring.
I'm in the process of replacing my present PWC. I'm aligned with V.R. and going through final motions (seating eval report to my counselor's desk - expected by late Dec. or early Jan.). My C500 sits, it's the best pwc I've experienced, poor ride quality, though. I talked w Matt Miller, permobil customer service and he suggested an F5 as opposed to the M5 largely due to caster flutter issues. Truthfully, I believe an M5 is the better choice per my condition at sixty-eight yrs. of age. I'm disappointed after watching your experience. A piece of plastic falling off a wheel due to flutter issues - wow. The Tech ignoring the l. r. caster looseness - I'd get to know his boss, really. A shock absorber ill adjusted, now I'm rethinking a Permobil. Working on your own pwc - could that void the warranty? ...not too many quads that can do this. If you have any encouragement to proceed w Permobil, please reply. Appreciate you sharing!
@@wheelchairghost I agree with you. The vendor who showed-up for my seating eval. refused to sell me a Permobil, six years ago, and said he didn't make enough money and gave me three lame choices - quantum, ROVI, Invacare's tdx sp - this Quickie qm710, I brought up and it spent on year, collectively, out of six, in the shop. At 2,600 miles, this Quickie - three motor replacements (another pair were in the works, wrong replacements were sent before moving back to Indiana), three joysticks, three swing-away assemblies, caster, fork stem, struts, frt. springs, two wires to Joystick, and error code 8104 still haunts me. Preferred Homecare, Phoenix Valley had to be hounded per lies - "parts haven't arrived yet," while twice Techs failed to walk my parts order to the girls whose job was to order parts - calling sunrise medical helped catching the lies. I really feel another mid-wheel would better suite my circumstances, still. My Permobil '14 C500 was Maintenace only and has 3 thousand miles. Do you think aggressive treads have any role in causing the flutter you're experiencing?
I have no proof of where the flutter comes from, but it seems the tread wearing down has reduced flutter to a reasonable amount. Adjusting the shock and tightening that bolt also played a part in the problem. @@horsewnoname872
Thank you! You've restored my faith in Permobil as my choice. Permobil's owner's manual states 'this wheelchair is made to last five years,' a first in my experience to see this. Matt Miller, Permobil Rep. shared all Permobil PWC's use two pole motors instead of four pole motors as my C500 has. He assured motors will never be a problem, though. Inflation has made me suspect of about everything, like the paint turns out to be plastic parts - anything to cut costs. You're Permobil, your assurances restore my confidence. Again, Thanks!@@wheelchairghost
If it helps... I think my problem is better because of two things. Tightening the left caster shock adjuster and wear on the caster tires. The angled crack issue went away. Flutter is seldom and due to random causes now.
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I just watched a twenty-minute video on Permobil caster flutter on a generation 3 M5 pwc by 'Totally Normal'. He's been in an F3 with aggressive tread tires. The video is eight years old, but he's presently very satisfied w his '23 F3 and was successful in stopping caster flutter on the older Permobil mentioned - interesting. Also, he assured that 'fixing' or working on the flutter problem won't void the warranty as the issue in considered a defect in parts/ workmanship. He did mention Permobil uses larger casters than previously, at some point. Eight-inch casters on m3, m5, f3, f5, presently. It occurs to me that the aggressive tread tires are slightly larger in width and diameter than the standard tread tires and they come with rear fenders, adding 7.5 mph plays a part. My initial in home F5 demo, the Numotion Rep. suggested standard tread for my use in Southern Indiana, adding the aggressive tread have softer tread compound and more open tread (wear faster). I thought that was a weird thing to say as we get a healthy amount of snow down here and the more frequent tire/ wheel replacements means more money for my vendor. That said, it's funny that Permobil's every picture pwc advertised has aggressive tread tires. Hmm.
You're catching on here. It's not a quick decision based on emotion.
You don’t have enough weight on your rear wheels. Tighten the tensioner for your springs on both sides. A screwdriver is all you need to turn the nut that’s at the end of the spring.
odd
I'm in the process of replacing my present PWC. I'm aligned with V.R. and going through final motions (seating eval report to my counselor's desk - expected by late Dec. or early Jan.). My C500 sits, it's the best pwc I've experienced, poor ride quality, though. I talked w Matt Miller, permobil customer service and he suggested an F5 as opposed to the M5 largely due to caster flutter issues. Truthfully, I believe an M5 is the better choice per my condition at sixty-eight yrs. of age. I'm disappointed after watching your experience. A piece of plastic falling off a wheel due to flutter issues - wow. The Tech ignoring the l. r. caster looseness - I'd get to know his boss, really. A shock absorber ill adjusted, now I'm rethinking a Permobil. Working on your own pwc - could that void the warranty? ...not too many quads that can do this. If you have any encouragement to proceed w Permobil, please reply. Appreciate you sharing!
Permobil is the best. A few minor issues don't make it bad when compared to chairs that are always broken.
@@wheelchairghost I agree with you. The vendor who showed-up for my seating eval. refused to sell me a Permobil, six years ago, and said he didn't make enough money and gave me three lame choices - quantum, ROVI, Invacare's tdx sp - this Quickie qm710, I brought up and it spent on year, collectively, out of six, in the shop. At 2,600 miles, this Quickie - three motor replacements (another pair were in the works, wrong replacements were sent before moving back to Indiana), three joysticks, three swing-away assemblies, caster, fork stem, struts, frt. springs, two wires to Joystick, and error code 8104 still haunts me. Preferred Homecare, Phoenix Valley had to be hounded per lies - "parts haven't arrived yet," while twice Techs failed to walk my parts order to the girls whose job was to order parts - calling sunrise medical helped catching the lies. I really feel another mid-wheel would better suite my circumstances, still. My Permobil '14 C500 was Maintenace only and has 3 thousand miles. Do you think aggressive treads have any role in causing the flutter you're experiencing?
I have no proof of where the flutter comes from, but it seems the tread wearing down has reduced flutter to a reasonable amount. Adjusting the shock and tightening that bolt also played a part in the problem. @@horsewnoname872
Thank you! You've restored my faith in Permobil as my choice. Permobil's owner's manual states 'this wheelchair is made to last five years,' a first in my experience to see this. Matt Miller, Permobil Rep. shared all Permobil PWC's use two pole motors instead of four pole motors as my C500 has. He assured motors will never be a problem, though. Inflation has made me suspect of about everything, like the paint turns out to be plastic parts - anything to cut costs. You're Permobil, your assurances restore my confidence. Again, Thanks!@@wheelchairghost
A big jar of flutter butter applied liberally might do the trick!!!!
Amazon was out. I won't buy it from Walmart because it's made from lard.
im still thinking a flat washer between a stack of wavy till really increase the stiffness.
Try it and find out, if you're having flutter issues.
I've got the flutter bad but in an older chair, i've just now tightened my washers down. One was looser than the other. time will tell if it helps.
If it helps... I think my problem is better because of two things. Tightening the left caster shock adjuster and wear on the caster tires. The angled crack issue went away. Flutter is seldom and due to random causes now.