Employee SCRAPS an INSANE Amount of Medical Parts... and the Reason is Even More INSANE
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2021
- The Medical Part featured in the beginning section of the video is the one that I'm talking about. Even though it has some pretty tricky dimensions, we CNC Machined many of these parts for years with no real issues until one day...
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist 
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For the person from Australia who asked about my health and was concerned because they noticed I was dropping weight in recent videos… I saw the message got deleted while I was responding so I will post it here. Thank you for being concerned and asking.
Truth is… I have dropped 28 pounds on purpose in the last 4 month. Special diet and been dedicating myself to working out at 5AM 6 days a week. I was PRE-Diabetic… and now am free and clear. Feeling great and it’s the first time my blood pressure has been normal in 15 years:-) I am 52 and have so much opportunity to truly make a difference in our trade… just want to be at my best to take advantage of it. Feeling Great.
Thanks for asking, I really appreciate this worldwide community.
Love you all.
BOOM!
Titan
Most people can benefit from changing their diet. Ask anybody in the gym who's muscular, lean, and very fit, and he'll tell you that diet is 70 percent of fitness. They eat five times a day and hit the gym four times a week and their diets are natural, nutritious, and healthy. Very little processed food or added sugar. BP goes to normal, symptoms of diabetes go away. Don't forget to to get your testosterone level checked and if it's low get a prescription for it.
Great job. Dedication in every part of one's life pays dividends. I, too, noticed the lean mean fighting machine look and figured you were working toward such a goal. Congrats
Metal-Ethics not Meta-Ethics ( look it up )
Consciously making Scrap is the metaphor to a skilled operator
Titan respect your trade secrets
& Good health 🇦🇺👍🤝
Awesome man! Always great to hear when someone improves their health
Apple Cider Vinegar is a good trick also
Happens to everyone, quality vs speed vs time and profit, we forget that heavy automation makes parts quickly, but makes scrap just as fast…
To err is human; to really foul things up requires a computer. -Bill Vaughan
No, that is a close your tool box up you're fired.
In a job shop in the aerospace industry you might be lucky to have one piece of material for set-up.
Production runs you have some extra material scraping the odd part you can get away with. Scrapping that much, heads are going to roll.
That's why good CNC Machinist make good money, because they don't make mistakes.
@@gooblio maybe it is. But it’s 100% the manager’s fault. Not the employees. In this case it falls on those who made the procedure, unless it’s not followed. So the manager(in this case owner) should be let go if anybody. It more likely is a good although expensive learning procedure about QA.
@@gooblio also, I know you’ve never been in a production facility or anything, but I do get where you’re coming from. But understand if you always blame employees for simple errors you will always have those errors. That’s why the blame does not fall on them.
@@bigiron4018 if the procedure is to check the first off on your shift then 1in 4 for example, and definitely after u put a new tool in to check the dimensions (which I'm sure it will be) Then it's the employees fault..only happened at our place last week and verbal warning was given.
Complacency will get you every time. We're all guilty of it and it hurts when it happens. Love the content brother! Much love and gratitude
This is far TOO much BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Whoever is talking ....are you the owner of the shop or just a manager with the authority to scrap parts ....WHICH IS A BIG AUTHORITY !!
YOU ARE THE ONE AT FAULT HERE.
YOU found out that a machinist changed a tool and did not tell anyone ....BOOM ...THAT'S ALMOST THE ROOT CAUSE.
YOU are a complete FAIL, when you end your hard-luck story there. WHAT DO YOUR PROCEDURES STATE IN YOUR QUALITY MANUAL? YOU have to have one as well as certification to AS9100 ...as well as ISO 13485 in order to be qualified to supply parts to these industries.
I very much doubt that your Quality manual allows for any tooling changes to be made without informing the supervisor or Quality inspection, or simply completing a ticket and putting the first part after this tooling change with this ticket either at the machine for in-process to pick up, or take to Q.C. and explain the situation (which is the preferred way). An insert gets changed, ...SAME THING ....NOTED ON THE PART MANUFACTURING FORM FOR THIS SHIFT. THIS IS THE FORM THAT IS MONITORING FOR SPC PURPOSES.
YOU talk so much and don't mention anything about the CORRECTIVE ACTION ......THAT'S A FAIL IN ITSELF. You DO NOT simply talk to a bunch of people when investigating a nonconformance. YOU have already opened up an NCR to document the entire investigation ........AND THEN THE CORRECT ROOT CAUSE WILL BE DETERMINED ...WHEN YOU ASK "WHY" ENOUGH TIMES. YOU WILL FIND OUT WHAT THE REAL ROOT CAUSE IS ONE OF:
1) FAILURE OF THE QUALITY MANUAL TO PROVIDE THIS DETAIL OF CHANGING TOOLING AND GOING BACK TO INSPECTION BEFORE CONTINUING (HIGHLY UNLIKELY THIS IS NOT IN THE MANUAL), OR
2) THE DETAIL IS CLEAR IN THE QUALITY MANUAL, AND THE MACHINIST HAS BEEN FULLY TRAINED IN THE QUALITY MANUAL, AND DID NOT FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE. (but even this should not happen because the tool crib, now often computerized, would show this end mill was pulled at a certain time and day, and this charge/cost added into the ERP system)
3) THE DETAIL IS CLEAR IN THE QUALITY MANUAL, BUT THE MACHINIST WAS NEVER TRAINED IN THE PROCEDURES (THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE ROOT CAUSE) ....AND THIS IS A FAILURE OF MANAGEMENT TO PERFORM TRAINING ....WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL REQUIREMENT IN THE QUALITY MANUAL. THERE MUST BE TRAINING RECORDS SIGNED OFF BY EACH MACHINIST AND THE PERSON PROVIDING THE TRAINING.
Once again ....TALK ....TALK ....TALK ....TALK ....TALK. SO COMMON IN SHOP MANAGEMENT AND OWNERSHIP.
Depending on the size of this shop, if they have only one machine ...then this is all on the management/ownership. If it is a big shop .....SAME!!!!!
I am a physicist and when I do stuff like that I'm like the opposite from complacent. I was taught in University that I'm shit at everything and need to triple check everything all the time, lol. It has almost become an illness where I take 10 measurements before cutting off parts that have ridiculous tolerances anyway...
@@taxicamel your entire comment is BLAH BLAH BLAH 🤣🤣. Show me on the doll where Titan hurt you
@@taxicamel dude maybe just don’t watch these videos. That’s a pretty pathetic response and it’s obvious you’re jealous of his position
It's a great way to keep learning though.
When you start a shift, the first piece that you run should go to inspection.
He said it did but their control plan wasn't robust enough and didnt catch the feature in question.
@@theupscriber65 yes, and that's were the blame sit's on the person who decided it wasn't necessary to do a full inspection of components, period.
When you change or adjust a tool, the FIRST thing you do is to check the feature(s) controlled by that tool. Then proceed to do a complete inspection of the part. If the feature can not be checked at the machine, it goes straight to QC. Period.
@@ComputerGeek18 Yes, but one missed QC check should not lead to DAYS of bad parts. That shows that the control plan was not robust enough.
I really like and respect this man. He is an example of what needs to be done to do a job right and to make right when a mistake is made. He clearly eat allot of time and material on this one. It is nice to see that the mistake will be used to drive and improve process going forward. Mistakes are opportunities for learning and improvement. It doesn't mean that they are not painful. Thanks for the lesson that didn't cost us!
I worked in a medical shop for a few years, and this was almost every night. They made me the shift lead and I had to leave after a while because management was ok with parts being constantly scrapped and didn't want to hear the solutions I offered. It never mattered how many parts were scrapped, how many machines were scrapped, or how many tools would be stolen.
I don't understand that.Why wouldn't you want to do better work and try harder? Thats why i'm for profit sharing as your workers will put more effort in if it gets them more money
@@Xlaxsauce just bad management or there is something else going on within management.
Obviously a tax dodge.🤣😂😁😀😎
They didn't want to hear the solution, because it would have required them to get of their ashes and implement better processes to support the machining departments. The last place I was at, the engineering department wouldn't make MOT blueprints for each machining operation, so one had to sift through pages of blueprints to find dimensions. It was ridiculous on some jobs if you REALLY checked your parts, so I made my own MOT prints so I could efficiently check parts. Lots of pencil whipper's in that place.
@@elypowell6797 Not the way I would put it, but SuperSlave, Germany's superhero who simply wants to spend more time with you for the glory of toil alone, has many children.
I had an inspector tell me my part was a tenth under sized I held it tight in my hand for a few seconds and gave it back to him and said now it's in print.
I know you were making a joke but you pointed out an important aspect of measuring: A part has to be measured in normal conditions (20°C, 1 atm). If the part is hotter/colder then the temperature compensation needs to be incorporated. This compensates the linear (volumetric) expansion/shrinkage of material due to heating/cooling.
That is why I always try to design my fixtures to work like a running gage for the previous op. If it doesn't fit in the next fixture, something is wrong with the prior op. Doesn't always work but most the time it does. Food for thought. ;-)
That is a good idea. Even if you can't use a physical block, you may be able to put a hole or dimple with paint etc. so that if the mark is uncovered you know too much material has been removed. Or some locating holes you can quickly drop a pinned piece into as a quick measurement. All you need is enough room for 2-3 small holes somewhere on the fixture, and you can design a negative of the top/sides of the part or even just a pinned bar to touch off with. If it slides into place, the part is the right shape. If the negative bottoms out material is missing. You can use that as a simultaneous multi dimension go/no-go.
That's called Poke a Yoke. You invented it.
I am so happy my “working years” are over. I used to live for fixing problems and adapting machinery tools and workers. Now I’m tired. So glad we have you guys with your energy. It’s lunchtime here and I just rode my bike to the seaside and along the track beside the sea and home inside 3 hrs. Maybe this afternoon I will continue my camper trailer build. Maybe study a bit. Now it’s coffee and RUclips.
My dad retired and has been changed by his many years of a 9-5. I didn't get to see a lot of him when I was younger, now I'm seeing that he has some hobbies and likes to relax. It's a bit scary. I just moved in with my sister and brother in law who are relentless at working towards affording a family. I'm really not sure if I'm ready for this.
@@danielloo1255 grow a pair and GET TO WORK!
Live it up!
@@danielloo1255 spend less, work less, retire early. minimize outlay on the most expensive things e.g housing.
minimize outlay on stuff you don't really need and learn to enjoy the simple free things in life...
@@rob-fb5xs Well I finished building from scratch an aluminium Airstream Basecamp took it for a shakedown 4000km it slips through the air like a trout in a stream.....should sell it but am now into a Pino 2010 scratch build...don’t have time to work! 😅
I remembered that feeling of a scrapped part as soon as you said how yall scrapped these.
That feeling in the stomach.
That, "oh, 💩" moment.
This happened to us one time, it wasn't as many parts but what we found was that the brand endmill we got had the wrong cutter in the box. Believe it or not this has happened more than once to us. Now we verify every new tool we get to make sure it is what the box says it is. I was shocked that this actually happened, it was a learning moment to not trust anything! DTA, Don't Trust Anything!😂 I always say to my coworkers to not get too comfortable running a job, never let your guard down because that's when it bites back hard! Always check everything.
Imagine messing up so hard, your Boss makes a YT Video to teach other people
Also don’t forget to inspect and verify your inspection tools and gages, I’ve had gage pins, new gage pins, that were clearly marked one dimension and actually measured differently.
yup, been there!
Worked at a machine shop where they intentionally gave me a bad gage to work with and let me spend all day losing my mind just to teach me that lesson.
"NEW GAUGE PINS that measured differently")????? Now it is one thing I don't buy. There are far too many things that need to go wrong for that to ever happen. You have heard of six sigma. This kind of measuring tool is far beyond six sigma when it is manufacture to the micron. If you think this kind of tool measured differently ...I would toss your micrometer before coming to this conclusion.
@@nathannotimportant9379 Friken hardcore. Glad to know that there's still organizations that beleive a job well done trumps feelings.
Calibration, it should be done once a year…
This is why your company is doing so good, actual attention to detail and simply perfection and nothing below it. I'm so tired in the place where i work, because every so often, they have to call the customer and tell them something is not right and can it pass like that and for the reasons which could simply be avoided if there was will from the people above. If i had the shop tomorrow, i would follow the same example, perfection and nothing below it and i don't care is it critical or not.
I work for a main gun manufacturer here in the US. I can’t tell you how disappointed I am with quality control, and willingness to pass along parts knowing they are not safe. They literally KNOW that people are having serious safety issues with their product and they continue to chase record profits.
You can thank only one group for that .....THE MANAGEMENT OR OWNERSHIP GROUP. This situation will be all about money. It could very easily be one of several reasons or perhaps a combination ....but it usually comes back to cost. The cost to make it right the first time is too high. The basic cost to simply make a part is too tight to make a profit ...which is the whole point. The need for better equipment that is capable of make the part is not in the cards ......and the list goes on.
This one gave me chills remembering a similar situation.
The day shift operator was a really good guy, but was fairly new to the trade.
He was really putting in the effort going the extra mile on his own to do a great job.
Knowing the second shift was coming in soon, he decided to index all the inserts in the roughing end mills and get a 100% first piece from inspection so the second shift could keep the chips flying when they took over and just continue a running inspection process checking random dimensions every part.
These parts had already run thru the CNC lathe department first side, and second side, and had been running for a couple of days in CNC milling.
The parts were made with 316 stainless steel, so before they got to CNC milling, between the stock costs, and running first and second side in the lathes these parts were already very expensive.
Unfortunately when the first shift machinist was being proactive changing the inserts, he grabbed some standard inserts by accident instead of the .060 nose radius inserts called out for on the set up sheet......
When the second shift crew came in, everything was running great, the machine had new inserts, and a fresh 100% inspection.
The parts, unfortunately, were all junk and unfixable because the stock in the corner was gone and milled to a sharp 90 degrees.
You know how we found there was an issue with the parts on the second shift?
The small diameter special finish carbide end mill with a .060 nose radius that finished that feature ran almost half the night and still looked new.
That never happened in past runs so we started to look for the reason it was happening now.
It looked new because it was milling air.......
It's good advice to be extra diligent with inspections around shift changes as you never know what has happened before you arrived to the shop.
Excellent video topic .
So the guy changed the inserts, sent the part in for inspection, and they diddn't catch it at that point and said good to go? That's rough.
Ouch.......
File that under no good deed.... ☹️
Poor guy... I hope he didn't get a hard time for that ... 🙄
Sounds like layout lab dropped the ball
The good thing is that PROCEDURES WERE FOLLOWED. Management should be acknowledging that fact. Mistakes DO happen and a review with both the machinists who did not catch the tool nose radius, and inspection is obviously in order. Perhaps training for inspection about the various forms that inserts are made and why may help. Not all inspectors are, or have been machinists.
Never assume
Triple check.
Carpenters double check.
Machinist triple check.
35 year cnc Machinist.
Scraped my share but you learn.
"Scrapped" .... you failed to inspect your comment before running it ! 🙄😂
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 ....he's a machinist ...not an English teacher 🤣
@@taxicamel ... as am I ... & it was just a joke... 🤷 🙂
(sharp intake of breath) That comment was out of tolerance
Definition
QA: an old machinist that finally learned to read.
“That’s how day shift left me”,”That’s how second shift left me”, “Third shift did it”!
Yup, can't wait to get the heck outta this field. Full of LAZY know-it-alls.
Spot on.. every time.
That’s why it’s important for 1st shift or at the start of every shift to do a 100% check. I worked at a Toyota plant and we had a piston recall.
Haha i think i have one of those motors
Toyota is legendary for requiring exact precision, not allowing a full production run untill things are perfect, even if the line has to be stopped and restarted 100 times.
@@Marc83Aus - I worked for a sister company to Toyota for years, we manufactured their brake calipers….for Camry, Rav 4, Tundra etc….they most definitely have high standards. I appreciated the quality too.
I used to work for a tier one automotive supplier and I agree that Toyota had the highest quality standards in the industry. I was amazed at all the hoops we had to jump through but after awhile I really came to appreciate their methodology. Unlike other OEMs they would work with you to solve problems while the other OEMs were only interested in charging you for problems.
I got one of tbose motorz too bro lol
this is probably your most important video ive seen to date. first arts are so important, anyone in manufacturing knows that. i also think that parts should get the first art scrutiny every so often, per hour or part number run.
We're a smaller shop but do a lot of different parts for tons of industries. We do full checks every 20th part to make sure everything is all good. Might be overkill but it stops any huge issues like this one.
I did first articles at the beginning and end of a shift so I knew where the parts are when I started, and where they were I left. Also on any tool change I would check all affected dimensions with checks in between during standard operating.
The first article WAS done.
The FIRST fault occurred when a tool got changed with the incorrect radius. This is a machinist error.
The SECOND fault was not informing someone and/or following a procedure to have the part "RE-INSPECTED" ...which should be clearly written in the Quality Manual.
The THIRD fault may be that the machinists was not trained in the established PROCEDURES.
The FOURTH fault could easily be, on the basis this is a long run part, for a medical devices, there is very HIGHLY LIKELY, that SPC is being done on critical features ......BUT ..... YES, you are correct. Every "X" number of parts should be FULLY INSPECTED. THIS ONE IS ALL ON MANAGEMENT.
It's totally possible to make processes that check EVERY part and immediately stop when the first one is found until resolved. One company I worked for did this and we almost never had downstream failures.
@@taxicamel I agree management is ultimately responsible, but any machinist who just changes tools like that is an idiot. You always ensure repeatability before batching thousands of parts. I'm not even a machinist and knew better than that before ever working in manufacturing lol. Literally I have zero experience and I would have NEVER assumed that to be okay, idky anyone would. I would have fired him for being stupid and then retooled some documentation and procedures. These are supposed to be skilled professionals, not bumpkin operators.
Me watching from Germany. At first let me thank you and your team for your endeavor on RUclips. Well done Sir. I think i speak for all who subscribed you that we greatly enjoy your Videos. Your insight and “strategic Advice” in and around CNC Fabrication, Human resources and sidekicks are priceless! I greatly appreciate it.
I personally like your ending statement very much. But you know how life is , third shift makes a tool change, the QC team has already gone home. I believe your team will come together and form a process just around this very subject and how to combat this kind of events to the fullest in conjunction with the QC team
Keep it, on. Bang Bang.
It's a common problem these days. Machine operators are not machinists and they are not inspectors. Most don't even know what it is they are making.
I used to make parts for medical equipment and then later that same equipment was used to treat my wife. Boom !
The Machining Center ? 😨
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 Try a some reading comprehension.
@@carabela125 was a low effort joke, Machining (Medical) Center. extremely low effort.
@@carabela125 "Try a some reading comprehension." also, loved the irony in this.
One of my former co-workers scrapped an entire pallet (wooden, not the workholding kind) full of parts because he was too busy trolling Facebook on his phone
Anytime you change a tool, the first thing you do is inspect the part. NEVER assume a part is good
And the size. Always check the size of your tool.
Great advice. Thank You
Isn't that what happened here ?
Inspection failed ....
Yep, seen this type of scenario play out too often for the same reason. In fact, I benefited from always assuming that there was probably something wrong with whoever’s parts I followed. Caught alot of potential scrap that way 😅
Its true… but it needs to be relayed through all operators, all shifts… Maybe they are not told….
So the corner radius of the tool was off which scrapped the part? We had a similar thing happen at the shop I work at. Do you know we fixed it? We bought a tool presetter and make sure all tool that get setup run on the presetter. If they don’t pass spec, they don’t get sent to the machine
That's one of the reasons I'd like a presetter, so that every tool that goes into the machine has been setup and inspected before it's anywhere near a machine and I can just pull from the shelf a tool that's ready to rock. Really cut down those switchovers between parts.
It was a question I was asked in the interview. What do you do first when pulling a tool out the cabinet or tool crib. ( measure it ) Should double check tools even if you have a tool crib guy. I went on a interview to a place and the guy drilled over 600 holes in plates to big. He got a replacement drill from tool crib and just kept drilling until he was done with his parts. They scraped 300+ parts . They fired the machinist over that.
There was a thing I read some years ago, They had built a New Boeing aircraft, they went out and flew it, it worked just Fine. They Landed it, took it all apart. Every part was checked for accuracy and tolerance...The whole plane was 90% out of Specification. Thing was The critical Surfaces that HAD to be There were there. I thought that that was very telling on where the industry at the time stood. During the production of these planes there were no CNC Capabilities, There were no Bubble Gum Chewing Button Pushers that are now Proudly mispronouncing their 'Machinist" status. Goes to show that there is some latitude in a vast majority of parts, and Most are not Critical, These were done on Fixtures mostly By Skilled machinists and they were done on Manual Equipment.
I check all dimensions all the time, I take photo records for my own keeping, I hate being blamed if a process further down the line messes up and gets blamed to my steps in machining.
truth to be told Machining can stress u out
@@siphephelomasondo9567
Stress the biggest drawback.
Great trade but if your serious abt keeping your job, production and precision
Pushing production becomes stressful.
One part prototype expensive material customer looking over your shoulder
One job I did, North Atlantic drill rig down waiting on one part. 100,000 dollars per day down time! Parts are massive.
My cnc bridge mill had 10 ft Y 8ft X 7 ft Z axis 4th axis add on.
OOYA VMC 21 TOOL changer.
Worked 20 hrs truck backed up waiting Yes it was perfect but stressed?
Boss said take Thursday Friday off (with pay) go fishing. Stress FREE😊
Great company true story. Titan man you have what it takes keep it real.
@@dennisandbettygoinggoinggo5212 nice...but if i may ask what is the min hourly rate in USA as an artisan
I used to work with a guy who was a nut, I'd go to the bathroom and come back to find him messing with my offsets to sabotage my parts, one time he switched my OD thread insert for an ID one and the machine crashed. He was the shop foreman so he never got in trouble but nobody liked the guy at all. The picture thing is a very good idea and I wish I'd thought of that
@@siphephelomasondo9567 in the us we only have one minimum wage it's not different for different trades but no Machinst is making minimum.
I understand the problem. I was a machinist for 40 years. That 20/20 hindsight is a killer.
Your QA program should of been checking at least every couple hundred parts on a big order like this. You're correct as it being a company wide failure.
Shit we do 100% daily 1st pieces. No matter the quanitity, no matter if its a .0005 or a .010
Wow, that one aspect I've learned in Aerospace early, you break one tool, you make sure that the replacement tool match the one it replace in the setup. And often if the tool broke during the machining of a part or process, big chance that the zero of the part for the process changed on that part or the part before. Meaning an in process setup change, that force on the operator to do a new "Best of" 100% full inspection of the next 20 parts and also verify the 5 previous parts to see if a shift happened before the break. By doing that, you avoid scrapping a full or large numbers of parts of a batch or worst the full batch.
I own a small cnc shop and this really resonates with me, I don’t machine to the same tolerances you do or the same volumes but I ran 15 really simple parts in a fixture, all were good, passed them onto the day shift, within 3 parts they damaged the fixture and didn’t notice despite the cutter running down one side of the part in fresh air and the remaining 65 parts were run out of place, long story short a small job that should’ve made us £500 profit cost the company £3000 in damaged materials, may not be a lot to some people but a £3000 loss in a day is a lot to us. Pays to check everything twice and the lesson I learned is you cannot trust employees to be responsible for their actions so now I check every job personally
Iain, You will never grow with employees like that...
You can't personally check every part AND run/grow the business all by yourself... ☹️
Thats micromanaging, and not good approach. Try to create systems that are fail proof. Standard of operations guves you a reason to audit the process and enquire has this been followed? if this has been followed how we got this wrong? Quality officer is responsible to making sure quality is as per standard. You can become the quality officer, but standards is what keep a shop in line.
So very true about checking tools... I am in the machine department of a general fab shop, and the amount of time I've run across tools in the wrong spot is too often. Things have gotten better, but drills and mills (mostly under 1/8") still end up in the wrong drawer sometimes. We only have 6 machining centers, so no tool crib for us!
The last part about rotating feature checks until you get a complete 100% inspection, sounds good in theory, but in practice, you are up against the management/owner mentality of faster, faster, faster. The more you inspect, the more time you take away from faster, faster, faster. Your repeat jobs have a process inspection correct? Did the employee follow the established inspection process? It sounds like he did. If he suggested changing the process to rotating feature checks until you get a complete 100% inspection before the the1700 part scrap debacle the management/owner would have told him we "have been running this job for years with no problems, don't waste your time". If the manager/owner came by his machine and it was idle while he was checking parts, most likely they are going to say "what are you doing?" "The machine is not making chips". "We have been running this job for years with no problems" (inferring that you're wasting time and doing a poor job.) He is told to "get the machine running, come on man". Fast forward to 2000 parts later, "employee F's up an insane amount of parts". All of you scrapped the parts, from the owner/management down the line.
I think Titan is saying here, that yes it was a whole company issue not just that one machinist being in error, and that they had to learn from the hole in their process that let that slip thru.
@@scottwatrous This industry is just full to the brim with management pushing employees until something breaks. Then blaming the employees. That is a big reason there is such a horrible turnover with machine shops.
The question I always get is how many parts can I run before checking the part in mu shop the answer is 0 always assume something is wrong with the part and check check check I would rather have 100 dead parts and catch it on part 100 in house than send the parts to my customer My favorite saying Is THERE iS ALWAYS TIME FOR YOU TO QC
PUT IT BACK ON THE OPERATOR you rock Titian I only have around 8 haas cnc machines your tips and tricks become more valuable to me every day
??? what did you do to the operator?
Complacency ...it's the fact you know it so well things slip by...good job huge respect
There was a thing I read some years ago, They had built a New Boeing aircraft, they went out and flew it, it worked just Fine. They Landed it, took it all apart. Every part was checked for accuracy and tolerance...The whole plane was 90% out of Specification. Thing was The critical Surfaces that HAD to be There were there. I thought that that was very telling on where the industry at the time stood. During the production of these planes there were no CNC Capabilities, There were no Bubble Gum Chewing Button Pushers that are now Proudly mispronouncing their 'Machinist" status. Goes to show that there is some latitude in a vast majority of parts, and Most are not Critical, These were done on Fixtures mostly By Skilled machinists and they were done on Manual Equipment.
I always checked the entire part if I took over after a shift!! That has saved me multiple times from making scraps...
Also, if you change a tool for a new one, you always check the part after the first run and correct if needed....
I work at a place that rough cuts the heck out of everything, plays hide the tool marks on belt sanders all day, skips operations using stock surfaces, sends stuff out to be etched and coated to hide visual flaws and basically runs everything fast and hard until it breaks. We spend countless hours hacking on stuff by hand after the fact because of super fast sloppy setups and probably blow through at least twice the normal amount of tools. The old story of the tortoise and the hare comes to mind. A methodical slow perfection setup in the beginning would literally save thousands of manual labor hours after the fact. Unfortunately the place I work at is focused on the hare approach.
I don't know anything about CNC machining, but I come here for the life lessons that pertain to many other things.
100% non machinist, complete amateur here with a question: if non-key dimensions being out of spec can result in rejecting a part, isn't it a key dimension?
Man the finish on those parts look like polished chrome plating!
These parts are not straight off the machine. They have both been processed in another operation.
Am and old school machinist who came up into the trade in the early days of CNC machines. My learning was based on tape readers and then migrated to the internal storage systems along with Mazak CNC that had the graphics program system. Anyway with today's insert types of mills one can get away with knowing that those are held to tight a tolerance but with regular ground end mills it is a different story, at least in my book. The shop I learned in produced fuel controls for jet aircraft and some of the parts were a pain in the arse to machine and some had a lot of tight tolerances.
We always checked a part (when a tool was changed) for those dimensions that it was going to affect. We also had a rule that we had to check all close tolerance holes (with plug gauges) every 10th part to ensure we had good parts.
I had seen several of your videos and you guys are awesome with what you are doing and teaching. I like the way you remove the metal at high speeds...in my day it was all about hogging off as much as you could in one bite....We did have accurate CNC equipment then but not as accurate and precise as today.
Keep up the good work and love the videos.....
Some of the best advice going. Anytime something is changed all dimensions should be checked against the print. Never assume that it is correct, verify then continue production when proven to be in specification.
Watching you interpolate a round hole and checking it with a plug gauge reminded me of a time when I was doing the same thing and the part was scrap. It turned out that even though the go and no-go gauges fit perfectly, the hole was out of round because of worn ballscrews. Every time the axis made a change of direction there was a witness mark that indicated a problem with the diameter. I have learned that if I want a true round diameter, I would set up a boring head to the proper finish bore diameter and let it take out the final .010" by boring in and boring out. Perfect round hole.
Plus it's faster. Circle interpolation should only be used on one off or high tolerance machining.
My old shop teacher mentioned that. They had parts get sent back because they weren't fitting. They bought all kinds of new tools, had the service guys out tightening every possible bit of slack to nothing, just pulling their hair out. Then come to find out it was another shop that was making mating round parts that were out of spec because of their leadscrew slack.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT....
When I got laid off from a job a few years ago due to a change in the industry as a result of milling machines being used to make dental crowns I was looking for a new career. I had a chance to be trained as a CNC operator but that level of precision was beyond what I was capable of.
I have gone on to another trade where if you are off by 0.001 units it will still be ok and the machine will still work.
This resonates on so many levels... Thank you, Titan.
“Till one day “ hehe! I’ve worked with a guy at a Karmann Ghia whom says addressed to shop floor: you guys may fail but Q&A CANNOT simple as that! However it still happens too often at my opinion! General speaking!
At Karmann Ghia in Germany, Rheine?
@@heisenbergisreal5858 unfortunately not, at Brazil São Bernardo do Campo, also knows as Brazilian automotive hub ABC Paulista!
The problem with that approach is that Every human will fail at one point or another. That's why the process and process flow have to be error-proofed as much as possible. You have to design so that mistakes are extremely difficult to make.
True..went through the same issue.. lost 1 million rupees .. but never made the same mistake again.. team's cooperation is must crucial..
Hit the nail on the head, very nicely explained, prototype (initial) inspection, random in-process inspection, especially post tool-change inspection is extremely important. Love you Titan!
Many times I get such calls and checked if we can live with the problematic parts and in many cases we could...
Yes, always have to offer the option. It is up to the customer to make the choice, not him. If my factory has to shut down because he withholds information and I find out, I am going somewhere else. It may not matter that they are out of spec but cost millions if they are delayed.
I wanted to say this. On time delivery is more important than an arbitrary minor characteristic if the customer decides to accept the deviation. Good parts don't mean much if they aren't on time.
Keep the parts in the order that they are made so that a you dont have to re-inspect a whole bucket. The problem will be downstream of certain spot. Plus it always looks cool to have the organized flight line of parts on the counter.
Although we constantly have to ask bystanders, "Why did you just pick that up and touch it without asking?" The only thing you could possibly do is drop it.
Sound advice. Thanks for passing it along. You saved a lot of headaches, money, and maybe some jobs.
And nice work with your health too. I’m 71, and still beat the younguns (mostly) at pool. I like the precision and the tolerances that pool requires-which is why I watch your videos. I play five hours a day, and walk a couple of miles. I quit smoking twenty years ago and never did drink. Smoke a little weed every day, for most of the last 50 years.
A little regular exercise, a decent diet, and a good attitude will get you a long way. You’ve got those now-see you in 20!
Thanks for the reminder of some of the basics the very often is over look.
I been machining for 25 years and you are 100 % correct.
Thanks for the hard work.
This bring back an unforgettable horror! I was brand new at a job I held for 25 years. Got put on a job I’d never run before, running a cast iron part, approximately twenty pounds, and was told to just chuck the part and push the button! Remember, I was brand new. Hadn’t even been trained on how to inspect the part.three hours later the in process inspector came around and told me to stop running, because the part was out of print. A part he’d gotten from me 2 1/2 hours before. Seems the day shift group leader called from the bowling alley, saying to check a dimension, as he had changed a large counterbore tool and didn’t check its depth! Thankfully the chore was shallow and the parts could be reworked and not scrapped. I thought I was finished before I’d even had a chance to start my machining career. I machined for two years and then became an inspector at a company that is the world leader in rotating unions!
Ah, yes, I have heard of Rotating Union Leader Inc.
I got laid off last year during covid because my bosses son said I check to much stuff (aerospace engine parts btw ) and my friends are telling me skippy and scrappy doo are getting lots wrong in my absence. Titan rules !
this is common, you were interfering with someones 'gambling operation.' Happens with electronics alot, people that never sit down and actually do something (office jockeys that got to high power levels in the company) , they will come to a eng tech or higher up and start trying to push you fast because you just 'plug it in'. Occasionally something goes wrong so they get trashed by a bad contact, misaligned part, damaged part, etc. and the designs sometimes have fatal flaws if they work on something that can show up years later in force. Imagine the horrible time losses from using a multimeter to test connections and critical parts during setup. maybe they will follow best practice wiring and hookup SOP when they find a alien space ship lol
@@cdrom1070 thank you Buddy I'm now in an even bigger company and I do see your point very clearly !
Thank you for the lesson man. the part i respect the most is your confidence to not quit or give up. just amazing how one can fallout you will stay down if you don't get up.
Impressive. God Bless.
It is about everyone understanding the part and process .No one area is responsible as the others should pick this error up I worked for a company that after a set number of components a full inspection and report was created This hopefully catch rogiue parts before they go through .
I heard about a guy who was working at a well known aerospace manufacturing company here in Wichita, KS who had a very low scrap rate and by the time he retired after 30 or 40 years there, the roof of where his work area was at was needing a new roof replacement along with a new air conditioner up there......they found hundreds of scrapped parts that had been tossed up there. All aluminum! Like 30 to 40 years' worth of it! He had been scrapping parts and once he got it right, he simply was tossing the parts on the roof and nobody ever caught him! He had been retired for years so there was nothing anyone could do about it. Good thing aluminum can be recycled.
Titan , I like you telling your experience so we, the international community get advantages. I like your projects and hope one day I stope by your great company, I take a close look to your incredible team
My first article has been sitting on qa desk for over a week. I have finished both first op and 2nd op and my first article still has not been checked. ( I 100%check every 10th piece and write down all my dimensions).
Supervisor asked me yesterday if I got my first first article back yet he wasn't happy with my answer.
You cannot run any part without a complete first article inspection, ever.
@@glennschemitsch8341 sure you can every employee is required to do their own inspection and are all trained on all inspection equipment. Our qa guys a lazy bum
This is the kind of guy that helps to sustain an advanced civilization.
Another dimension, another dimension, Another dimension, another dimension... This would make a GREAT song!
Well, now....
I like the one when you tell someone not to change anything in this program because its been working perfectly for the last 10 years, so they got bored and decided to improve it. End result was thousands of pounds worth of scrap. Freckin genius.
I was working in a shop in so cal and the owner's son ran the best CNC in the
shop, and one week he scaped 20 titanium ingots that cost over 60,000 apiece
and his dad finally fired him.
I was an engineer in a power train manufacturing plant making precision gear for engine manufacturers around the world. When I joined their scrap rate was between 5% - 14% monthly . I spent 7 days a week researching the problems and installing solutions. After 6 months it was under 1% monthly and after one year it was consistently under .5%. Then we reached the best rate of under .22% and that was all due to changing people's attitude to quality.
Lmao, literally Wednesday I used a turn with the wrong radius because the tool sheet was wrong at my shop. Part looked and checked fine for my in process but when the audit came, then I saw the damage.
Ugh man, I’ve been that guy, and I’ve seen that guy. Don’t get so wrapped up in getting as many parts out as possible that you don’t take the time to make sure they’re good. If you’re making bad parts, you may as well not be making parts at all. Stay sharp, take your time, boys.
Man ive dabbled in the cnc world a few times an ALWAYS checked every dimension on the print just to be sure we didnt make a giant pile of scrap
Always felt like I was wasting time I little but if there was a problem id stop an figure it out
This is a great reminder. Especially when a large order comes through.
We make medical instruments, and recently bought our own CNC machine (AMS MCV-400F). I don't know the hands-on aspect of CNC, just the software side, but I plan to get trained on the machine once it's installed just so I can better understand how my code gets turned into parts. It's way too easy for us coders to think of machining as just "rendering an image with molecules" -- easy and automatic. Videos like this one make me think "could I make this piece easier to check at intermediate stages?". Thanks for the reminder.
Hey mate loving the videos, helps me relax a bit almost like mini stories and I love it
Great attitude! Well done!
Great video! You are awesome Titan. Every time you grunt it makes me grin! Love it! Uhhhhh!!!
I spent five years working a station running 5 different sized spur gear cutters. It’s been almost 15 years since working that job, and I still have dreams where I didn’t tighten the arbor or the cutter, and wound up scrapping a 24 karat gold gear blank. Now, we never cut gold gears, but my subconscious mind is essentially saying it’s still worried about scrapping gear blanks. I guess my subconscious mind hasn’t realized that melting and casting a new blank from scrapped piece of gold isn’t actually that difficult if there’s time enough to do it. I think I might actually miss that job. Definitely beats sales…
You are the best.
Here is to a prosperous 2022!
By far the biggest enemy of any shop is complacency. It easy to find someone to run a machine, but the person that can consistently stay on their toes is much more difficult to find.
I had a promising possible career in Machining, my wise Boss said "Don't make a Knife or a Carburetor" , survived a Hatchet attack he helped me clean and personalize , so He was right !!
I've only had ONE supplier of machined parts ever shipped nothing but 100% in-spec parts. They provided their own inspection data using a laser micrometer that showed a CPK of 14. I loved doing business with them.
Just discovered your channel yesterday. I’m loving all of these videos.
Great video and also great advice thank you
3:52 My boss doesn't understand this..he thinks people are machines even though he makes mistakes ALL OF THE TIME
I worked in a saw mill and the problem we had was shift change. Boss would not pay for the time going trough the plan with the next shift so when clock hit the time to go home if anything was wrong or plans changed it was always the next shifts problem.
I really wish I was not constantly discouraged by my dad when I talked about wanting to learn machining as a trade. When I see any type of machine work as an adult it makes me think back to my old man and that BS. Fortunately, my kids will not have that issue (they will be encouraged to pressure whatever they want) and as for myself, I have been slowly teaching myself little bits at a time as I can afford it. Mostly just stuff on 3D printers and a little bit on my tiny DIY lathe.
Also, I love the ethos and work ethic I see from you guys. It’s simple while efficient and effective. Keep up the awesome work and I’ll keep drooling here as I try to learn something from you all. lol
I've gone over to inspection from being a CNC turner, as I've got arthritis.
What I have done for safety when checking parts is, I've made inspection sheets for each job we get.
I have all the dimensions on it for checking the part, so as I fill in the sheet, I know
that I'm not missing out any dimension on the drawings when checking.
This also gives me a record along with the CMM file that I save, so if anything goes wrong
we can look to find out why and where.
Sucks for the loss of material and time but cudos to your team for picking it up before it left the shop.
There is nothing worse than cutting something twice only to find out that it is still too short :)
Thank you so much for your vigilance and diligence re medical machine parts. Heck, our lives could depend on that!
This is a textbook example of a long winded explanation of saying: "WE FKD UP"
My uncle once told me " Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups."
I live by that.
Experienced a sort of the same thing.
A eng technician change an implant recipe, it was signed off by various multiple heads of engineering depts what wasn't caught was that the recipe changed was used on another product line. That whole product line was trashed 3 weeks worth of work toast.
Well put!!!!
I once almost scrapped a Magnesium part that went into an Apache Helicopter. It was one piece. I was an "APPRENTICE" working on a manual lathe. The tolerance was 5-tenths. I had a low spot on it by 1-tenth. The inspector wouldn't "buy" it. After arguing with the Inspector, my boss called on Hughes Aircraft and they said it was OK. They (Hughes) had actually had a tolerance of 1-thousands of an inch. SO, I had actually made a good part, on a manual lathe, as an apprentice to boot.
Inspectors, you gotta love them, sometimes.
Thank's for sharing.
My golden rule for myself is never assume anything and I find as soon as I let my guard down and have a lapse in judgement it comes back to bite me. Fortunately it dosen't cost me the huge sums of money as it costs some.
You guys are awesome.
Thank's Again.
Even with proper storage and accountability, I still double check every tool I replace before signing it out. When guys with 15+ years experience come in and don't double check either LOC or Radius' during setup or tool replacement, I freak out. A guy with 3 years experience in machining shouldn't be running circles around a guy with 20 and making them look bad.
I started programming in Mastercam straight out of engineering school for my current employer. Been programming for about 5 years in Mastercam Mill, Lathe and wire EDM. I program for the model shop at our R&D center in Toronto. The parts we make are strictly engineering prototypes so they don't necessarily have to be perfect. Just functional most of the time. Tolerances are pretty lax. If I had to hold aerospace tolerances I would be a nervous wreck all the time. I wouldn't take anything for granted. In fact I don't even think I would take a job like that. Too much on the line.
Be diligent,never assume. Disaster is always waiting for you to slack off
You’re fortunate your q/c inspector didn’t do the same thing. Better to be caught in house & keep your reputation. That’s the guy who’s the hero in this story.
I worked QC in a medical manufacturing company for a while and was failing a large percentage of the carbon fiber product that was coming in from vendors because it was way out of spec for flatness, threaded holes that were no go and dimensions that were off. I would NCMR the products, but the QC managers would have what we called a Circle Jerk each morning and look over the product that failed, and decide that yes, it would be OK to assemble and ship out to the medical facilities. They needed the product to ship and did not want to piss off the lowest priced vendors that they use. Coming from an aerospace facility this did not fly with me.
If you had made these parts for the clowns above they would have accepted them.
I wish to become THAT machinist. The one that makes the parts per spec.
That's the one thing people should be taught when you say"I Assumed it was correct"!
Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
It’s actually far worse on parts you usually run rather than a new part. That’s why in surgery we use checklists to make sure people do quality checks on “routine stuff” (of course we didn’t leave an instrument inside). Same in aviation, of course we did x, except when you didn’t and routine things go sideways.
I worked at a shop where we did stuff that was +/-.0002 all day. We'd usually mess up the easy stuff that was +/- .005.