Thank you for sharing this enlightening conversation, Michael. Joanna Macy has long been one of my icons: a Gaian Buddhist visionary, for whom I have deep and abiding respect and admiration.
I’ve gotten into this whole thing from listening to an extinction rebellion video by accident.. that was a month ago and I’ve studied it probably more than my damn PHD. I thought I knew what it all was a month ago. I assumed it would take about another 100 years to get to where I now except it to get to in 20-30 years. As a sociologist I understand what will happen when food is not available. I have been going through some stuff since I found out. It blows my mind that even the monsters who run the world would think they will be ok in all of this. I would skin them live on tv 📺 of course even though I don’t see it I’m sure someone will do it! I cannot be as sanguine as the good people on the screen as I am only in my 40s I am grateful however my partner and I don’t have children. The theory of paradigms should inform someone who is unaware of what is to come. I also don’t believe we can collapse well ( sorry 🙏🏻 ) but hope I’m wrong! Peace on everyone here.
@@T1tusCr0w Very familiar thoughts. When collapse starts messing with the food supply, things can get real nasty if police, raiders or armed militia start asserting local dominance. If you have a garden, but no means of defending it.. They will just take whatever they please from you. It happened in Bosnia, Somalia and probably all throughout history. I'm not saying this will happen everywhere (collapse will be very diverse I think, just as life is) but for many people, the part that comes before the real climate horrors might be equally terrifying. If there's a local food network and some form of local governance and cooperation present, then who knows, maybe things won't be as bad. So if there's anything we can still do, my bet would be on those things. Dimitri Orlov has studied the collapse of the Soviet Union extensively, and made some interesting observations on this. I am approaching 40 myself, and I do have two wonderful children. I'm deeply moved by the wisdom and love that's oozing out of Michael and Joanna in this video, but at the same time I can't see how this is the best time to be alive for my children. Just like it's not the best time to be alive for a hook-lipped rhinoceros or leatherback sea turtle. Their future is extinction. I don't really know how to deal with that yet, but finding other people here being able to freely and respectfully discuss these things makes me feel a lot better. Peace on you too.
@@hugopeek6461 I’ve read some stuff written on the siege of Stalingrad as it dealt with the theory of paradigms. Example, books = repository for knowledge. By the end of the siege books = heat. Of course anyone with a reasonable grasp of this situation understands where that goes when we add in scarcity, lawlessness & maybe more powerful = hopelessness. Even modern fantasy books like GoT ( the book not the questionable tv show ) shows this in a situation of war, famine and law breakdown. I hope - selfishly - none if this happens in the U.K. ( I’m in Scotland ) till I’m very old or dead. I fear for those with children. ( I had to take a passage out I had written that was too grim to see or send to anyone with children 🙏🏻 )
Embracing loss and grief is the most important spiritual capacity necessary for this transition of a planet ridding Herself of a plague of humanity. Thank you for this!
A huge thanks to Michael and Joanna for being here, during these times. I found this conversation quite riveting, and eye-opening. Particularly the segment where you expressed the sense of identity through one another, of accepting our privilege to be here now in these times. Not running away from the collapse and unraveling but to being even more present with one another, with our ancestors, with that continued sense of being through time (past - present and future). And to be connected as vital expressions (seedlings) of mother earth, who wants us to flourish along with all living and natural beings we share this precious earth with.
I thought about this. I'm in a position and of an age where I could watch it play out until the bitter end. But at the end of the day, I don't want to see it. I don't want the horrific societal cannibalism and violence that is going to result to be my last memory of this world. Perhaps that is cowardly but I can barely stomach humanity as it is now. I don't want to know, on a visceral and not just intellectual, level what we are capable of. Would you sit by and watch the Holocaust for twenty years? And if you would, why? What the fuck is the point?
Well, I feel, dare I say, precisely the same way you do..every word of it, except that I'm 70 years old, and so less likely to be able to watch it play out to "the bitter end", though I don't consider that prospect to be far fetched, at the rate things are going. I'm glad that some people seem willing to make the best of it, but why can't I?Because it will, sooner or later, consist in the worst human suffering which cannot possibly be imagined, even in our worst nightmares. Take the heart breaking suffering, and slow kill of precious innocent children. Or the full realization that we are currently responsible for the 6th mass extinction of life on this jewel of a planet, which may perhaps even reduce it to microbial life....underground. Scientists make painstaking efforts to find one single microbe living beyond this planet, while we blatantly rape countless life forms to death, and at breakneck speed. I have a relatively painless plan to check out if things get bad enough. I hope I will find the courage.
@@tracywalker6813 I mean you don't really need to go full Lovecraft. lol. I just see it as another choice and I ain't going to judge anyone else for theirs.
All nuke plants are already hanging by a thread scrams happen weekly around the world at these plants.....it will fall apart very quickly very quickly due to abrupt climate shift.. enjoy every day why not just focus on today that's my 2 cents...
You're most welcome! On a related note, my latest video has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
As an atheist, I don't share a lot of these spiritual beliefs, but there is a lot in this conversation that speaks to me. If this is the end of our human project, to be grateful to be here at this fascinating time. Or if it is to be transformational, to have a deep appreciation for this world that allows us to be a participant, however big or small, in that transformation. For surely we are standing at the lip of an epic, unprecedented change. It also helps me to lay aside some of the fears I have for my adult children as they start thinking about having kids of their own.
As an ecotheist (Gaia/Universe is my "god"), I agree fully. See: G🌎D: Owning Our Error, Accepting Our Fate ruclips.net/video/DEDvM8Agmw4/видео.html / Also, you might enjoy my latest video, which has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
I often think about storing some baby products for my unconcieved grandchildren. But is this only to prolong their suffering? If the parents believe they can always just go to the store. Still asleep.
Wow Michael, so good. Writing this with tears. Much thanks to Joanna and yourself for embracing and informing us in a spiritual way beyond the mechanics and chaos of collapse.
Thank you for sharing this beautiful conversation. I am new to your work but have spent most of the day with it. Thank you for being you doing what you do. Love, prayers, and blessings for you and all our relations.
ive watched a lot of your interviews michael..and for me this is the best conversation you’ve had yet. Thank you for bringing Catherine in as well, her offering definitely deepened what was covered.
Catherine’s words reminded me that indeed the veneer of civilization is very thin. Jared Diamond’s words “Easter Island is Earth writ small” are more prescient than I would have imagined.
Having kids now is the ultimate embodiment of “don’t look up” or throwing fuel on the🔥. if we’re already in overshoot conditions then there’s no excuse for such selfishness.
I heartily disagree. Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago on the subject (not to persuade you; I don't need to do that, and anti-natalism is a perfectly honorable stance), just so you know where I'm coming from... Just as virtually every previous empire and civilization experienced a 70-90% population reduction due to die-off so, too, IF there are any humans at all on Earth in 20 years there most likely wont be more than 10-50 million total…in isolated pockets of relative habitability. I see arguing for voluntary population reduction similarly to the argument that everyone should become vegan: it’s demonstrably true it would make a big difference and it’s theoretically possible and it’s admirable for those who choose to not have children, or eat meat, and it’s an infinitely more solid ethical/moral position than saying, “Fuck it. I’m going to have as many kids and eat as much meat as I want!” But if I and everyone I know and love are likely to be dead in 20-30 years (possibly this decade given abrupt climate change, BOE, and all), I've got better things to do in this time of Global Hospice than to judge and condemn those who make different ethical choices than I do. As I implied, above, Ma Gaia is going to do one kick-ass population reduction in the very near-term future, with or without any conscious participation on our part. I give a multi-breadbasket failure with 1-3 billion or more people dying no more than ten years out.
@@thegreatstory “it’s admirable for those who choose to not have children, or eat meat, and it’s infinitely more solid ethical/moral position than saying “Fuck it. I’m going to have as many kids and eat as much meat as I want!”. I agree entirely. As it happens I’ve been vegan for 8 years since watching a single persuasive video on the topic. Just like my position on not having children was informed by concepts like ecological overshoot. (Stumbling upon your work recently I feel very fortunate and grateful) Just because there’s a good chance people we know and love will die doesn’t mean we can just dispense with logic, ethics and compassion. We’re all inevitably going to die (regardless of climate change or any other symptom of overshoot) so what would be the point of any ethical behavior then? I think having children now would be like living in eastern ukraine and deciding to get pregnant. Sure you can argue it’s the ultimate patriotic act against Russia but it also means there’s a myriad of ways you can no longer participate in resistance/disruption. It also means that incredibly stretched resources now have to be spent on taking care of a newborn when people are already struggling with limited medical resources. It’s impossible for the mother to regret having the child once it’s born just like I imagine it’s impossible to regret the existence of your grandchildren. But I think to be consistent with everything you espouse it would be worth stating that if you were in your 20’s now you wouldn’t choose to exacerbate our problems by having children? and yes, go vegan 😉☺️ 🥕 🥦 🫑 🥗
I don't know about you, but the vast majority of old people that I know are NOT glad to be alive right now. But, yes, I get your point. Just as it is easier for most young people to feel resentment right now. I go into this more fully in my most recent video (the most practical and emotionally supportive I’ve ever done): "Sanity 101: Living Fully in an Age of Decline - Essential Wisdom for Hard Times” (90-min): ruclips.net/video/IeDcreVILTE/видео.html A couple of weeks ago the Canadian Association for the Club of Rome (CACOR) invited me to deliver a 50 minute version of that program in early May, with the title, “The Big Picture: Beyond Hope and Fear”. If you're short on time, here's the "Cliff Notes" (30-min) version, for those who are already fully collapse accepting and/or who have watched a number of my previous videos: ruclips.net/video/cLBJjBcSSnY/видео.html
@@thegreatstory thanks for replying and yes, my anger and resentment popped out there. Thanks for the resources and sorry for being so salty in the comments.
Love her. Thank you. Per our last communication - The first article you sent argued against the Meers project because there is assumed lack for sand for making the mirrors - may l suggest there are other reflective materials and even if his stance is true what better way to use the sand that is available. Guy never said it was “the answer” only something that could at this point buy some time. Will read the next articles and get back.
Thanks, Linda...I love her too! We all have our blind spots, including me. As prophetic and consistently helpful as Guy McPherson been over the last decade, I can easily grant him a blind spot or two -- even one as large and full of hopium as the MEER:ReflEction framework. Guy has never studied the history of anthropocentric technology (as I have), so I can hardly fault him for believing MEER could "buy us some time" in a way that doesn't merely (pun intended :-) exacerbate ecological overshoot, which it would surely do. If you're interested, here are many of what I and others consider the best-of-the-best resources related to techno-hopium idolatry (my word): thegreatstory.org/sustainability-audios.html#techno Know that most of the audio files have migrated to Soundcloud, here: "Techno-Insanity and Clueless Eco-modernism": soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/sets/techno-insanity-and-clueless
@@thegreatstory ok I am not going to convince you that finding a way to keep an albedo effect is the way to go (if it could be done). However l do think we have 2 different but related phenomena going on. The collapse of a society reliant on fossil fuels that are running out and the accelerated climate change due to overuse of the natural world. (Ok because in major part over population) These 2 things are happening simultaneously and l cannot fault him for trying to effect this is some small way. However l don’t see it as hopian or false promises - Guy never said that - his idea is to do something. Our best action is to shut down nuclear facilities and hope for a better outcome for the earth. We are history so just be kind.
Pretty rapturous. I fear that many will not have such joyous exits. Such pain, suffering and misery will need ministering to with compassion and grim determination and the rhapsodic will have to take its place amidst hard truths.
How can we continue to love each other, even life itself, in the face of what feels like absolute, irreversible destruction of everything we value? The fact that humanity is undoing Creation itself undermines any hope .... and I was born with a lot of it. We are blaspheming every day.
WRT the "spent" fuel rods, I don't understand why nuclear engineers don't find some way to keep using that energy, such as putting the material into radioisotope thermal generators (RTG's) like the ones we use to power long-duration spacecraft and rovers. If those rods can sit there and churn out enough energy to boil away water and then set themselves on fire for decades or more, that's an enormous amount of energy at high energy-density. Yet instead of finding ways to use it, they spend _more_ energy to throw it away (cool the rods). It's like pouring half of a car's gasoline into the trunk, setting it on fire, then using a high-powered AC system to get rid of the excess heat and hoping that AC system doesn't go out.
Interesting analogy! On a somewhat related note, my latest video has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
Nature gives us grand examples in later life and health. Apoptosis is "healthy cell death" we cell biologists see in living systems. Its rather an intelligent and beautiful process to witness.
I'm actually surprised that this well educated gentleman, who is so well informed about environmental and society collapse stuff, is not aware that there will be survivors to this event. I wish more people would be talking about religious prophecies in Christianity and Islam.
That's a faith stance that I don't hold and doubt is true, Anand. I suspect there is no more than a 20% likelihood that any mammal larger than a small burrowing animal will survive abrupt climate change (10,000 years of climate change in half a human lifetime). Most insects and vertebrates (including birds, mammals, humans) will perish in the next twenty years. No matter how much civil disobedience… no matter who, or which party, is voted into office… no matter how many people take to the streets or change their habits… no matter how much "evolution of consciousness" occurs in the coming decade or two… The ice of the world - in the Arctic, Greenland, Anarctica, and mountain glaciers - will continue to melt and do so in an unstoppable, increasingly rapid way. The world’s forest - in the Amazon, Western U.S., Australia, Canadian and Russian Boreal forest, etc - will continue to burn and do so in an unstoppable and accelerating way. The insects, amphibians, mammals, birds, and, indeed most land vertebrates, and the dolphins, whales, fish, corals, plankton, and, indeed, most life in the seas will perish. The weather - floods, hurricanes, typhoons, tornados, hail storms, droughts, and inevitable wildfires - will grow ever more severe, damaging, and deadly until they’re all gone. Excellent Evidence-based Videos and Papers by Guy McPherson: guymcpherson.com/ Edge of Extinction: Maybe I’m Wrong: ruclips.net/video/KxKBcy_28_g/видео.html (8:36) ‘May' and ‘Might' Become ‘Is': ruclips.net/video/-U45PMTOicM/видео.html (7:49) Be Your Own Superhero: vimeo.com/363363105 (1:00) How We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/oYJ38lHMn64/видео.html (3:13) Why We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/kcamLd-3kug/видео.html (6:07) When We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/1JYI6rv9GGk/видео.html (4:45) What Will Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/rfoYGT6UytY/видео.html (7:10) Guy’s peer reviewed recent papers: www.onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/earth-is-in-the-midst-of-abrupt-irreversible-climate-change.pdf guymcpherson.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Clinical-Psychology-Forum-May-2019.pdf Guy’s longer essays: Climate Change Summary: guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/ Extinction Foretold, Extinction Ignored: guymcpherson.com/extinction_foretold_extinction_ignored/ Aerosol Masking Effect (Global Dimming Effect) opastonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/will-covid-19-trigger-extinction-of-all-life-on-earth-eesrr-20-.pdf science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6427/eaav0566 agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jgrd.50192 VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/HBANJeCgsD0/видео.html (3:34) VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/3xeItd5kdt4/видео.html (9:47) Arctic Ocean Warming and Ice Loss VIDEO: guymcpherson.com/arctic-ice-loss/ (9:00) guymcpherson.com/video-supporting-articles-arctic-ocean-warming-losing-ice-addendum/ __________________________ Typical way MSM and IPCC speaks of tipping points, “possible”, “may soon cross”, “scientists warn”… when dozens of tipping points have already been passed: • amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report • www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/19/the-tipping-points-at-the-heart-of-the-climate-crisis science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6421/1379 __________________________ The following was originally posted on r/collapse… www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/o18brj/weve_crossed_the_planetary_threshold/ __________ It's now obvious that we've already crossed a number of planetary thresholds: science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6223/1259855 and that the planet is barreling toward a hothouse Earth. In other words, these tipping points are in the rear view mirror, most already in unstoppable, runaway mode . Despite the way the IPCC and mainstream media speak of them, they are not merely “possible” or “in danger of”). Remember: these tipping points all interact with each other and amplify each other, like dominoes falling. Ice - Cryosphere tipping points Arctic sea ice loss: Past tipping point, Blue ocean event within years: ruclips.net/video/RUzokM-WTZ0/видео.html Also: www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/irreversible-warming-tipping-point-may-have-been-triggered-arctic-mission-chief Melting of Greenland ice-sheet: Past tipping point: ruclips.net/video/3tTVz-FhkyM/видео.html Melting of West Antarctic ice-sheet: Past tipping point: www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/12/western-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-has-already-begun-scientists-warn Melting of Himalyan glaciers: 1/3 of glaciers gone already at 1,5C: www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/04/a-third-of-himalayan-ice-cap-doomed-finds-shocking-report Ecosystems - Biosphere tipping points: Canada's boreal forest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon-sink-or-source-1.5011490 - also here: www.cbc.ca/news/science/boreal-forest-being-driven-to-tipping-point-by-climate-change-study-finds-1.3198892 AND: www.nationalobserver.com/2021/07/05/analysis/under-siege-bcs-forests-have-started-emitting-co2-lots-it Amazon rainforest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/30/brazilian-amazon-released-more-carbon-than-it-absorbed-over-past-10-years ALSO: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs ALSO: www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01871-6 ALSO: www.ft.com/content/02071ae7-dcf5-4c61-9c3c-b55f5aef8b0e?sharetype=blocked Tropical coral reefs: Practically gone within years: www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/07/great-barrier-reefs-third-mass-bleaching-in-five-years-the-most-widespread-ever Atmospheric and oceanic circulation system tipping points El nino intensifying and increasing in frequency: Happening: e360.yale.edu/digest/climate-change-is-making-el-ninos-more-intense-study-finds Jet stream slowing down and is pushing warm air deep into the arctic Happening: insideclimatenews.org/news/31102018/jet-stream-climate-change-study-extreme-weather-arctic-amplification-temperature/ Thermohaline circulation: Has slowed down: www.livescience.com/gulf-stream-slowing-climate-change.html Indian monsoon: Already stronger and more chaotic: www.dw.com/en/indian-monsoon-climate-change-rainfall/a-57187793 Sahel drying: It's happening: news.globallandscapesforum.org/40544/as-the-sahel-dries-the-sahara-advances/ Other Tipping points: Permafrost becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145880/permafrost-becoming-a-carbon-source-instead-of-a-sink Permafrost becoming methane source: insideclimatenews.org/news/19072017/arctic-permafrost-melting-methane-emissions-geologic-sources-study/ Ocean methane hydrates: have started to be released: www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find Collapse of ocean phytoplankton: already in runaway mode: psmag.com/environment/global-warming-is-putting-phytoplankton-in-danger - also here: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3860950
@@thegreatstory Hello Michael. I is a real privilege to be able to share some thoughts with you. I'm 34 years old, and I'm relatively new to this most relevant subject. I became aware of the imminence of global collapse just last year, and it's been such an interesting time of grieving and understanding for me. I have to say that what started as a persistent interest in Yoga practice, with time grew into great appreciation of spiritual life, and it has culminated with the utmost praise and value of the main religious doctrines we hold in planet Earth at this day. Sikhism became huge for me, and Buddhism, an Islam, and Christianity, and Judaism, and every other Dharmic religion out there brought to us by human masters who came in touch with the divine, and that where able to translate God's language into such valuable pieces of the spiritual puzzle of this reality. I understand the modern western-science's approach and statement on this issue, and I understand how insightful it is to comprehend what is it that the analysis of stuff happening around us is able to predict in specific trends and patterns. However, one has to have a little bit of sci-fi imagination to conceive some of the future possibilities that we may be actually encountering in the coming years. Just to give you an example of what I'm saying, I'm sure you have considered that powerful family or institutional establishments and corporations are probably much better informed than any of us regular people is, and I'm absolutely certain that special 'bunkers' or even small underground cities may be well under construction at the moment. This is of course the sci-fi part of me doing the reasoning, which also rings quite, well, reasonable, and beyond doubt if you ask me. This example makes me think of course of the Saint John's writing in Revelations where he says how Kings and their slaves go into their caves when the whole thing unravels. Makes me wonder if I could be lucky enough to serve one of these people given the fact that I'm no King, or prince, or chief of state or any of that. I've brought the subject on the table with my teacher Bob Thurman, which I think you may know, and he's one filled with great hope for a Great Turning in which we will be able to save ourselves and the planet from this huge catastrophe. He may just not be willing to acknowledge to his audience yet what other things he might be considering, but in any case he would fall to me on the category of seeming denial at the moment. In your case, I'm quite puzzled on why do you consider Christian prophecies not to be true, or even also Islamic ones which are so fascinatingly intertwined with the one's on the Bible. To me, they explain so vividly every single disturbing thing happening at the global stage right now, it would be impossible not to make the correlation. I would love to know, Michael, what is your stance on any of the prophecies that appeal to some kind of End of Times, it would be so valuable to hear your posture on this subject. Than you!
@@Anand.Harprem In response to your questions, I invite you to spend some time here: michaeldowd.org/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/ and follow your heart and your interests. If you send me an email I'll send you a PDF of my book, TGFE. My email address is MichaelBDowd(AT)gmail
@thegreatstory I waited a couple of days to see 'comments' from the 'young men' that have a go at you my good Rev. Maybe it is just for me to do that... I am sad for your grandchild and sad for the conversation you are to have, that no impending doom stopped the desire to reproduce, even if the planet is on fire. You may want to start your conversations with the youth that are starting their lives with this burden. Two human fires are about to explode. What to do with refugees trying to move to safer climates, and also the anger that will be unleashed by youth, that sadly don't have happy 'enjoy every moment' elders. There is no concerted 'WE'... the youth have nothing to look forward to... start addressing them
I receive your coaching with gratitude. I will, indeed, start addressing youth more specifically and consciously. But please don't waste time being sad for my granddaughter. For every one day of pain or suffering she will experience before the Grim Reaper takes her (most likely in the next decade or two), I can confidently say that she will enjoy (and provide) hundreds, perhaps thousands, of days of joy and happiness. Re speaking with young people, I usually start by recommending ALL the short posts on Collapsosaurus Rex, but especially "Collapse and the Stages of Grief": web.archive.org/web/20210306102507/collapsosaurus-rex.com/ You can listen here: soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/collapsosaurus-rex-collapse-and-stages-of-grief
@@mhdhunter Nonsense. People throughout human (anthropocentic civilizational) history (not to be confused with truly sustainable, ecocentric cultures) knew damn well that any year could be your last, due to bad harvest, floods, drought, foreign waring raiders, etc. Our sense that we are entitled to a long life without troubles is an aberration. Personally, I suspect that things are going to unravel way, way, WAY too fast for children or teens to live years (much less decades) with deep and profound anxiety. I expect 90-99% of our species (and most mammals larger than small burrowing ones) to die this decade.Moreover, I expect most of those mammals and humans to die within two years of things getting really bad. In other words, most children and adults of all the species that are destined for extinction are NOT, I suspect, going to suffer for long. Most (excepting, of course, "civilized" folk and our domesticated animals) will live relatively "Wild, Free, and Happy" until they rather rapidly perish from starvation or heat-related sickness or conflict or nuclear radiation. If you've not read or listened to Rick Reese's must read or must listen to book, I cannot recommend it too highly: soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/sets/richard-adrian-reese-wild-free-happy
@@thegreatstory I mistakenly deleted my last message for you: May the road rise to meet you, May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, The rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, May God hold you in the hollow of his hand. All the best
@@mhdhunter I was wondering why your message was deleted. Thank you for reposting!! I'm Irish and I do, indeed, greatly appreciate your appreciation and blessing...truly! (I just added to my comment to you, above. Do read Rick Reese's work. He's the best of the best!)
Not exactly. Human-centeredness has already destroyed the entire human race and most complex forms of life; it's just taking time to unfold. It's already well underway, accelerating, and unstoppable.
When realizing continuity with G🌎D, I agree that acceptance of mortality becomes possible. However, mortality of G🌍D does become increasingly personal and difficult, for me.
Well guys...they were having babies right until the end at Masada and then the mother and father killed their child then themselves. Life and humanity to the end 💔😢....I guess that's the way it will be. Life will try to find a way. Maybe there will be a great awakening for some.....anyway, all my best to one and all.
Yeah, a monetary system commits us to a survival mode. There's no time for consciousness, when you are just trying to survive. We can't expect otherwise.We're not gods yet. If we survive long enough A.I. might acheive it. And then god help the galaxy if the likes of us migrate.
@@mrrecluse7002 We are a hybrid of “gods”, real flesh and blood beings with what we’d consider godlike abilities, and Earth apes. A manufactured worker-bee species capable of speech, high cognitive function, and with a strong genetically induced urge I suspect to be “gods”. A species that was utilized, primarily for mining and construction, and then abandoned to fend for ourselves long long ago. And ever since then we’ve been engaging in the most horrific atrocities against each other in our individual and cooperative attempts to be gods. Prove me wrong!
@@mischevious That's Zecharia Sitchens theory, and you are the one who must prove it, not me. I'm certainly sympathetic to the theory. We're freaks of nature on this planet. We don't fit it. We may very well be alien hybrids. I sure as hell don't know, and I propose neither do you. When you challenge me to prove the theory wrong, how the hell am I supposed to do that? Don't ask the impossible. Chill. I'm actually on your side, I think, believe it or not. You really are mischevious, aren't you?
@@mrrecluse7002 That was the point of that one yes!😉 No one can prove diddly, but it does feel correct. What I find curious is that I came up with this correct feeling theory, that rather felt like a realization of truth that I had utterly no basis for, around age 21 long before I’d ever heard of Sitchen. Just came to me one day as I was driving the Ventura highway along the ocean, chalk full of logic in regard to human behavior and along with a peaceful feeling of knowing. With nothing whatsoever to back up that “knowing”! Which is why I posed it with the tongue in cheek prove me wrong! PS; We do fit in. But only if we ditch all the tech and..literally everything else we’ve created and return to living simply, in harmony with nature. Which it’s entirely too late for of course! Happy day anyway!
@@mischevious Yeah, it's facinating to talk about. My friend and I have had many a laughs and comiserations about it over the years (not derogatory ones), and he went to one of Sichens lectures. Thank you, and a happy day to you also!
@@mrrecluse7002 Like most species, we are programmed to fill all available habitat. Our technology and ability to extract energy, has made this boom/bust cycle an epic one.
@@bumblebee9337 Yes, and human nature is what it is, and in my opinion it is allready too late for anything but adaptation...which is a pretty sucky and ify proposition of itself. It seems that by the time geoengineering might make a dent, (which I greatly doubt, and could also backfire), we will allready have ravaged the planet. Nature can't wait. You mentioned habitat. Let's just say that we are about to discover something heretofore inconceivable... human habitat loss.
@@mrrecluse7002 and @Bumblebee 9337 -- Y'all don't seem to realize that Ma Gaia has already activated her own SEVERE human population strategy. I suspect there is no more than a 20% likelihood that any mammal larger than a small burrowing animal will survive abrupt climate change (10,000 years of climate change in half a human lifetime). Most insects and vertebrates (including birds, mammals, humans) will perish in the next twenty years. No matter how much civil disobedience… no matter who, or which party, is voted into office… no matter how many people take to the streets or change their habits… no matter how much "evolution of consciousness" occurs in the coming decade or two… The ice of the world - in the Arctic, Greenland, Anarctica, and mountain glaciers - will continue to melt and do so in an unstoppable, increasingly rapid way. The world’s forest - in the Amazon, Western U.S., Australia, Canadian and Russian Boreal forest, etc - will continue to burn and do so in an unstoppable and accelerating way. The insects, amphibians, mammals, birds, and, indeed most land vertebrates, and the dolphins, whales, fish, corals, plankton, and, indeed, most life in the seas will perish. The weather - floods, hurricanes, typhoons, tornados, hail storms, droughts, and inevitable wildfires - will grow ever more severe, damaging, and deadly until they’re all gone. Excellent Evidence-based Videos and Papers by Guy McPherson: guymcpherson.com/ Edge of Extinction: Maybe I’m Wrong: ruclips.net/video/KxKBcy_28_g/видео.html (8:36) ‘May' and ‘Might' Become ‘Is': ruclips.net/video/-U45PMTOicM/видео.html (7:49) Be Your Own Superhero: vimeo.com/363363105 (1:00) How We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/oYJ38lHMn64/видео.html (3:13) Why We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/kcamLd-3kug/видео.html (6:07) When We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/1JYI6rv9GGk/видео.html (4:45) What Will Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/rfoYGT6UytY/видео.html (7:10) Guy’s peer reviewed recent papers: www.onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/earth-is-in-the-midst-of-abrupt-irreversible-climate-change.pdf guymcpherson.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Clinical-Psychology-Forum-May-2019.pdf Guy’s longer essays: Climate Change Summary: guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/ Extinction Foretold, Extinction Ignored: guymcpherson.com/extinction_foretold_extinction_ignored/ Aerosol Masking Effect (Global Dimming Effect) opastonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/will-covid-19-trigger-extinction-of-all-life-on-earth-eesrr-20-.pdf science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6427/eaav0566 agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jgrd.50192 VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/HBANJeCgsD0/видео.html (3:34) VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/3xeItd5kdt4/видео.html (9:47) Arctic Ocean Warming and Ice Loss VIDEO: guymcpherson.com/arctic-ice-loss/ (9:00) guymcpherson.com/video-supporting-articles-arctic-ocean-warming-losing-ice-addendum/ ________________________ Typical way MSM and IPCC speaks of tipping points, “possible”, “may soon cross”, “scientists warn”… when dozens of tipping points have already been passed: • amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report • www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/19/the-tipping-points-at-the-heart-of-the-climate-crisis science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6421/1379 ________________________ The following was originally posted on r/collapse… www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/o18brj/weve_crossed_the_planetary_threshold/ ________ It's now obvious that we've already crossed a number of planetary thresholds: science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6223/1259855 and that the planet is barreling toward a hothouse Earth. In other words, these tipping points are in the rear view mirror, most already in unstoppable, runaway mode . Despite the way the IPCC and mainstream media speak of them, they are not merely “possible” or “in danger of”). Remember: these tipping points all interact with each other and amplify each other, like dominoes falling. Ice - Cryosphere tipping points Arctic sea ice loss: Past tipping point, Blue ocean event within years: ruclips.net/video/RUzokM-WTZ0/видео.html Also: www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/irreversible-warming-tipping-point-may-have-been-triggered-arctic-mission-chief Melting of Greenland ice-sheet: Past tipping point: ruclips.net/video/3tTVz-FhkyM/видео.html Melting of West Antarctic ice-sheet: Past tipping point: www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/12/western-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-has-already-begun-scientists-warn Melting of Himalyan glaciers: 1/3 of glaciers gone already at 1,5C: www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/04/a-third-of-himalayan-ice-cap-doomed-finds-shocking-report Ecosystems - Biosphere tipping points: Canada's boreal forest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon-sink-or-source-1.5011490 - also here: www.cbc.ca/news/science/boreal-forest-being-driven-to-tipping-point-by-climate-change-study-finds-1.3198892 AND: www.nationalobserver.com/2021/07/05/analysis/under-siege-bcs-forests-have-started-emitting-co2-lots-it Amazon rainforest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/30/brazilian-amazon-released-more-carbon-than-it-absorbed-over-past-10-years ALSO: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs ALSO: www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01871-6 ALSO: www.ft.com/content/02071ae7-dcf5-4c61-9c3c-b55f5aef8b0e?sharetype=blocked Tropical coral reefs: Practically gone within years: www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/07/great-barrier-reefs-third-mass-bleaching-in-five-years-the-most-widespread-ever Atmospheric and oceanic circulation system tipping points El nino intensifying and increasing in frequency: Happening: e360.yale.edu/digest/climate-change-is-making-el-ninos-more-intense-study-finds Jet stream slowing down and is pushing warm air deep into the arctic Happening: insideclimatenews.org/news/31102018/jet-stream-climate-change-study-extreme-weather-arctic-amplification-temperature/ Thermohaline circulation: Has slowed down: www.livescience.com/gulf-stream-slowing-climate-change.html Indian monsoon: Already stronger and more chaotic: www.dw.com/en/indian-monsoon-climate-change-rainfall/a-57187793 Sahel drying: It's happening: news.globallandscapesforum.org/40544/as-the-sahel-dries-the-sahara-advances/ Other Tipping points: Permafrost becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145880/permafrost-becoming-a-carbon-source-instead-of-a-sink Permafrost becoming methane source: insideclimatenews.org/news/19072017/arctic-permafrost-melting-methane-emissions-geologic-sources-study/ Ocean methane hydrates: have started to be released: www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find Collapse of ocean phytoplankton: already in runaway mode: psmag.com/environment/global-warming-is-putting-phytoplankton-in-danger - also here: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3860950
@@thegreatstory Well, you're bloody well preaching to the choir. I'm all too fully convinced that we're more or less doomed, except maybe for a few poor slobs who might scrounge underground for awhile. I re-read my posts, and don't see where you have the impression that I don't see the host of horrors which lie, more or less, dead ahead....which is not terribly important because we don't know each other from Adam....but I'm just sayin. In any case, I thank you very much for the links. I do appreciate them, and your information will not at all be wasted on me. Keep up the good work.
Just ask an indigenous person what they see in US and you will get a quick correct answer.....they've been pointing this out for hundreds of years only to watch it fall on deaf ears....just think long before the invention of electricity indigenous people's told us if we keep thinking and doing things the way we do it ant gona end well!
Jesus’ parable of the wise and the foolish builders comes to mind. “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn't fall, for it was founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn't do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell-and great was its fall.” - Matthew 7:24-27 On Christ (AND the solid rock of the Earth and the divine Natural laws that govern it), I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand! The rock is not only the WORD of God it is the creation of God, it is literally the Earth, it’s ecosystem, and the Natural Laws which govern them. It is no accident that Jesus chose this metaphor. Our industrial society, because it has NO foundation or root in the Natural laws of natural ecosystems, and indeed, exhibits a wanton disrespect, contempt and distain for these divine laws (synonymous with blasphemy) and seeks to replace them with an inferior, disharmonious, exploitative, anthropocentric substitute, (an idol of their own creation), was doomed to collapse from the start - just as ALL human civilizations before it since the fall. Separation from Nature. The desire to dominate and subjugate Nature rather than to be a part of it and to work with it to our mutual benefit, THAT was original sin. And we are ALL, (humans and ALL life forms on this planet) are suffering the consequences of that sin. The solution is to return to Eden in humility, like the Prodigal son, to reestablish our connection to the ecosystem and hence to God, to confess, repent and atone for our sin by restoring the damage to the ecosystem that, in our arrogance, we have wrought. I believe that a regenerative economy is not only possible but INEVITABLE, as it is (and always has been), our ONLY way forward. Without it, by our own hand, we go extinct. Life needs us less than we need it. Life will recover and eventually give birth to a new species that will try again.
Doubtless Greta Thunberg will not be joining Joanna Macy in her dystopian "glad to be living in the end times" theme. Joanna is effectively romanticizing doom in the same way that Sam Mitchell glorifies it. Different ways of coping with reality perhaps.
Indeed! If you've not already watched it, my latest two-part video series, "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" has garnered 120,000 views in eleven days (which has never happened to me before): ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Please join us, if you are so led: postdoom.com/discussions/ I also highly recommend the "post-doom" conversations and resources found here: postdoom.com
Thank you for sharing this enlightening conversation, Michael. Joanna Macy has long been one of my icons: a Gaian Buddhist visionary, for whom I have deep and abiding respect and admiration.
Indeed!
I’ve gotten into this whole thing from listening to an extinction rebellion video by accident.. that was a month ago and I’ve studied it probably more than my damn PHD. I thought I knew what it all was a month ago. I assumed it would take about another 100 years to get to where I now except it to get to in 20-30 years. As a sociologist I understand what will happen when food is not available.
I have been going through some stuff since I found out. It blows my mind that even the monsters who run the world would think they will be ok in all of this. I would skin them live on tv 📺 of course even though I don’t see it I’m sure someone will do it! I cannot be as sanguine as the good people on the screen as I am only in my 40s I am grateful however my partner and I don’t have children.
The theory of paradigms should inform someone who is unaware of what is to come. I also don’t believe we can collapse well ( sorry 🙏🏻 ) but hope I’m wrong! Peace on everyone here.
@@T1tusCr0w Very familiar thoughts. When collapse starts messing with the food supply, things can get real nasty if police, raiders or armed militia start asserting local dominance. If you have a garden, but no means of defending it.. They will just take whatever they please from you. It happened in Bosnia, Somalia and probably all throughout history. I'm not saying this will happen everywhere (collapse will be very diverse I think, just as life is) but for many people, the part that comes before the real climate horrors might be equally terrifying. If there's a local food network and some form of local governance and cooperation present, then who knows, maybe things won't be as bad. So if there's anything we can still do, my bet would be on those things. Dimitri Orlov has studied the collapse of the Soviet Union extensively, and made some interesting observations on this.
I am approaching 40 myself, and I do have two wonderful children. I'm deeply moved by the wisdom and love that's oozing out of Michael and Joanna in this video, but at the same time I can't see how this is the best time to be alive for my children. Just like it's not the best time to be alive for a hook-lipped rhinoceros or leatherback sea turtle. Their future is extinction. I don't really know how to deal with that yet, but finding other people here being able to freely and respectfully discuss these things makes me feel a lot better.
Peace on you too.
@@hugopeek6461 I’ve read some stuff written on the siege of Stalingrad as it dealt with the theory of paradigms. Example, books = repository for knowledge. By the end of the siege books = heat. Of course anyone with a reasonable grasp of this situation understands where that goes when we add in scarcity, lawlessness & maybe more powerful = hopelessness. Even modern fantasy books like GoT ( the book not the questionable tv show ) shows this in a situation of war, famine and law breakdown.
I hope - selfishly - none if this happens in the U.K. ( I’m in Scotland ) till I’m very old or dead. I fear for those with children. ( I had to take a passage out I had written that was too grim to see or send to anyone with children 🙏🏻 )
Thank you Joanna and Michael - such a wonderful conversation. I'm so grateful xx
You're most welcome.
Embracing loss and grief is the most important spiritual capacity necessary for this transition of a planet ridding Herself of a plague of humanity. Thank you for this!
Such a beautiful conversation … thank you 🙏🏼 what a blessing for you (and therefore for all of us listening) to be able to count her as a friend.
I feel the same about you, brother!
A huge thanks to Michael and Joanna for being here, during these times. I found this conversation quite riveting, and eye-opening. Particularly the segment where you expressed the sense of identity through one another, of accepting our privilege to be here now in these times. Not running away from the collapse and unraveling but to being even more present with one another, with our ancestors, with that continued sense of being through time (past - present and future). And to be connected as vital expressions (seedlings) of mother earth, who wants us to flourish along with all living and natural beings we share this precious earth with.
Thanks, Oliver!
At 40.1 minutes Joanna Macy saying "It makes me happy..." Her beautiful face glowing with such joy! 💞
I thought about this. I'm in a position and of an age where I could watch it play out until the bitter end. But at the end of the day, I don't want to see it. I don't want the horrific societal cannibalism and violence that is going to result to be my last memory of this world.
Perhaps that is cowardly but I can barely stomach humanity as it is now. I don't want to know, on a visceral and not just intellectual, level what we are capable of. Would you sit by and watch the Holocaust for twenty years? And if you would, why? What the fuck is the point?
Well, I feel, dare I say, precisely the same way you do..every word of it, except that I'm 70 years old, and so less likely to be able to watch it play out to "the bitter end", though I don't consider that prospect to be far fetched, at the rate things are going.
I'm glad that some people seem willing to make the best of it, but why can't I?Because it will, sooner or later, consist in the worst human suffering which cannot possibly be imagined, even in our worst nightmares. Take the heart breaking suffering, and slow kill of precious innocent children. Or the full realization that we are currently responsible for the 6th mass extinction of life on this jewel of a planet, which may perhaps even reduce it to microbial life....underground. Scientists make painstaking efforts to find one single microbe living beyond this planet, while we blatantly rape countless life forms to death, and at breakneck speed.
I have a relatively painless plan to check out if things get bad enough. I hope I will find the courage.
I should have converted to Madness so the Elder Gods would eat me first.
@@tracywalker6813 I mean you don't really need to go full Lovecraft. lol. I just see it as another choice and I ain't going to judge anyone else for theirs.
@Eidelmania But no one has a crystal ball. The timing of the damaging tipping points will determine when.
All nuke plants are already hanging by a thread scrams happen weekly around the world at these plants.....it will fall apart very quickly very quickly due to abrupt climate shift.. enjoy every day why not just focus on today that's my 2 cents...
Those last 5 minutes are all the things. Thank you, thank you.
You're most welcome! On a related note, my latest video has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
Heartfelt, honest, soulful, refreshing and enriching! Thank you both 💚
As an atheist, I don't share a lot of these spiritual beliefs, but there is a lot in this conversation that speaks to me. If this is the end of our human project, to be grateful to be here at this fascinating time. Or if it is to be transformational, to have a deep appreciation for this world that allows us to be a participant, however big or small, in that transformation. For surely we are standing at the lip of an epic, unprecedented change. It also helps me to lay aside some of the fears I have for my adult children as they start thinking about having kids of their own.
As an ecotheist (Gaia/Universe is my "god"), I agree fully. See: G🌎D: Owning Our Error, Accepting Our Fate
ruclips.net/video/DEDvM8Agmw4/видео.html / Also, you might enjoy my latest video, which has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
Well said and spot on, thanks for sharing! 🙏❤️
I often think about storing some baby products for my unconcieved grandchildren. But is this only to prolong their suffering? If the parents believe they can always just go to the store. Still asleep.
Just found this video. Read all the comments. Good to know I’m not alone. Thank you to all of you!
You're most welcome, Carol. Thank YOU for commenting!
Wow Michael, so good. Writing this with tears. Much thanks to Joanna and yourself for embracing and informing us in a spiritual way beyond the mechanics and chaos of collapse.
Thanks, Jeff!
Thank you for sharing this beautiful conversation. I am new to your work but have spent most of the day with it. Thank you for being you doing what you do. Love, prayers, and blessings for you and all our relations.
Thanks, Eber!
Wisdom is overflowing in this! And it gives me hope to 'die well' or die wise.
Thank you for recording this: what a gem🙏🌱💛🌈💌
I really loved this. Thank you both for this inspiring discussion.
Thanks, Sandy!
ive watched a lot of your interviews michael..and for me this is the best conversation you’ve had yet. Thank you for bringing Catherine in as well, her offering definitely deepened what was covered.
Thanks, brother! I agree.
Catherine’s words reminded me that indeed the veneer of civilization is very thin. Jared Diamond’s words “Easter Island is Earth writ small” are more prescient than I would have imagined.
I love Joanna Macy and could listen to her forever 💖
Deeply moving. Thank you
You're most welcome, Jordan!
A wonderful conversation. Thanks for sharing
Thank you both
RUclips recommendation is correct.
Having kids now is the ultimate embodiment of “don’t look up” or throwing fuel on the🔥. if we’re already in overshoot conditions then there’s no excuse for such selfishness.
I heartily disagree. Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago on the subject (not to persuade you; I don't need to do that, and anti-natalism is a perfectly honorable stance), just so you know where I'm coming from...
Just as virtually every previous empire and civilization experienced a 70-90% population reduction due to die-off so, too, IF there are any humans at all on Earth in 20 years there most likely wont be more than 10-50 million total…in isolated pockets of relative habitability.
I see arguing for voluntary population reduction similarly to the argument that everyone should become vegan: it’s demonstrably true it would make a big difference and it’s theoretically possible and it’s admirable for those who choose to not have children, or eat meat, and it’s an infinitely more solid ethical/moral position than saying, “Fuck it. I’m going to have as many kids and eat as much meat as I want!”
But if I and everyone I know and love are likely to be dead in 20-30 years (possibly this decade given abrupt climate change, BOE, and all), I've got better things to do in this time of Global Hospice than to judge and condemn those who make different ethical choices than I do. As I implied, above, Ma Gaia is going to do one kick-ass population reduction in the very near-term future, with or without any conscious participation on our part. I give a multi-breadbasket failure with 1-3 billion or more people dying no more than ten years out.
@@thegreatstory “it’s admirable for those who choose to not have children, or eat meat, and it’s infinitely more solid ethical/moral position than saying “Fuck it. I’m going to have as many kids and eat as much meat as I want!”.
I agree entirely. As it happens I’ve been vegan for 8 years since watching a single persuasive video on the topic. Just like my position on not having children was informed by concepts like ecological overshoot. (Stumbling upon your work recently I feel very fortunate and grateful)
Just because there’s a good chance people we know and love will die doesn’t mean we can just dispense with logic, ethics and compassion. We’re all inevitably going to die (regardless of climate change or any other symptom of overshoot) so what would be the point of any ethical behavior then?
I think having children now would be like living in eastern ukraine and deciding to get pregnant. Sure you can argue it’s the ultimate patriotic act against Russia but it also means there’s a myriad of ways you can no longer participate in resistance/disruption. It also means that incredibly stretched resources now have to be spent on taking care of a newborn when people are already struggling with limited medical resources. It’s impossible for the mother to regret having the child once it’s born just like I imagine it’s impossible to regret the existence of your grandchildren.
But I think to be consistent with everything you espouse it would be worth stating that if you were in your 20’s now you wouldn’t choose to exacerbate our problems by having children? and yes, go vegan 😉☺️ 🥕 🥦 🫑 🥗
@@Nahsorry I mostly agree with you...thanks for having the courage to share this much detail!
It's so easy for an old person to say that they're glad to be alive right now.
I don't know about you, but the vast majority of old people that I know are NOT glad to be alive right now. But, yes, I get your point. Just as it is easier for most young people to feel resentment right now. I go into this more fully in my most recent video (the most practical and emotionally supportive I’ve ever done): "Sanity 101: Living Fully in an Age of Decline - Essential Wisdom for Hard Times” (90-min): ruclips.net/video/IeDcreVILTE/видео.html
A couple of weeks ago the Canadian Association for the Club of Rome (CACOR) invited me to deliver a 50 minute version of that program in early May, with the title, “The Big Picture: Beyond Hope and Fear”. If you're short on time, here's the "Cliff Notes" (30-min) version, for those who are already fully collapse accepting and/or who have watched a number of my previous videos: ruclips.net/video/cLBJjBcSSnY/видео.html
@@thegreatstory thanks for replying and yes, my anger and resentment popped out there. Thanks for the resources and sorry for being so salty in the comments.
@@crystallinebanana1217 Thanks for having the courage to be "salty". Truly!
Loved this talk. Love U guys. ❤️
Thanks!
Great stuff. So validating
Glad you enjoyed it
Love her. Thank you. Per our last communication - The first article you sent argued against the Meers project because there is assumed lack for sand for making the mirrors - may l suggest there are other reflective materials and even if his stance is true what better way to use the sand that is available. Guy never said it was “the answer” only something that could at this point buy some time. Will read the next articles and get back.
Thanks, Linda...I love her too! We all have our blind spots, including me. As prophetic and consistently helpful as Guy McPherson been over the last decade, I can easily grant him a blind spot or two -- even one as large and full of hopium as the MEER:ReflEction framework. Guy has never studied the history of anthropocentric technology (as I have), so I can hardly fault him for believing MEER could "buy us some time" in a way that doesn't merely (pun intended :-) exacerbate ecological overshoot, which it would surely do. If you're interested, here are many of what I and others consider the best-of-the-best resources related to techno-hopium idolatry (my word): thegreatstory.org/sustainability-audios.html#techno Know that most of the audio files have migrated to Soundcloud, here: "Techno-Insanity and Clueless Eco-modernism": soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/sets/techno-insanity-and-clueless
@@thegreatstory ok I am not going to convince you that finding a way to keep an albedo effect is the way to go (if it could be done). However l do think we have 2 different but related phenomena going on. The collapse of a society reliant on fossil fuels that are running out and the accelerated climate change due to overuse of the natural world. (Ok because in major part over population) These 2 things are happening simultaneously and l cannot fault him for trying to effect this is some small way. However l don’t see it as hopian or false promises - Guy never said that - his idea is to do something. Our best action is to shut down nuclear facilities and hope for a better outcome for the earth. We are history so just be kind.
@@thegreatstory love your language🙃
Grief, gratitude, and giving up. Why am I not impressed?
Pretty rapturous. I fear that many will not have such joyous exits. Such pain, suffering and misery will need ministering to with compassion and grim determination and the rhapsodic will have to take its place amidst hard truths.
How do we keep loving Mt. Shasta when, for the first time in my life, it is totally without snow??????
How can we continue to love each other, even life itself, in the face of what feels like absolute, irreversible destruction of everything we value? The fact that humanity is undoing Creation itself undermines any hope .... and I was born with a lot of it. We are blaspheming every day.
Oh! Thank you for sharing this conversation. Deep gratitude for the both of you.
You're most welcome, LaUra and Aimee!
WRT the "spent" fuel rods, I don't understand why nuclear engineers don't find some way to keep using that energy, such as putting the material into radioisotope thermal generators (RTG's) like the ones we use to power long-duration spacecraft and rovers. If those rods can sit there and churn out enough energy to boil away water and then set themselves on fire for decades or more, that's an enormous amount of energy at high energy-density. Yet instead of finding ways to use it, they spend _more_ energy to throw it away (cool the rods).
It's like pouring half of a car's gasoline into the trunk, setting it on fire, then using a high-powered AC system to get rid of the excess heat and hoping that AC system doesn't go out.
Interesting analogy! On a somewhat related note, my latest video has garnered 80,000+ views in just over a week: ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Also see here: postdoom.com/discussions/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/
Nature gives us grand examples in later life and health. Apoptosis is "healthy cell death" we cell biologists see in living systems. Its rather an intelligent and beautiful process to witness.
Agreed!
I'm actually surprised that this well educated gentleman, who is so well informed about environmental and society collapse stuff, is not aware that there will be survivors to this event. I wish more people would be talking about religious prophecies in Christianity and Islam.
That's a faith stance that I don't hold and doubt is true, Anand. I suspect there is no more than a 20% likelihood that any mammal larger than a small burrowing animal will survive abrupt climate change (10,000 years of climate change in half a human lifetime). Most insects and vertebrates (including birds, mammals, humans) will perish in the next twenty years. No matter how much civil disobedience… no matter who, or which party, is voted into office… no matter how many people take to the streets or change their habits… no matter how much "evolution of consciousness" occurs in the coming decade or two…
The ice of the world - in the Arctic, Greenland, Anarctica, and mountain glaciers - will continue to melt and do so in an unstoppable, increasingly rapid way.
The world’s forest - in the Amazon, Western U.S., Australia, Canadian and Russian Boreal forest, etc - will continue to burn and do so in an unstoppable and accelerating way.
The insects, amphibians, mammals, birds, and, indeed most land vertebrates, and the dolphins, whales, fish, corals, plankton, and, indeed, most life in the seas will perish.
The weather - floods, hurricanes, typhoons, tornados, hail storms, droughts, and inevitable wildfires - will grow ever more severe, damaging, and deadly until they’re all gone.
Excellent Evidence-based Videos and Papers by Guy McPherson: guymcpherson.com/
Edge of Extinction: Maybe I’m Wrong: ruclips.net/video/KxKBcy_28_g/видео.html (8:36)
‘May' and ‘Might' Become ‘Is': ruclips.net/video/-U45PMTOicM/видео.html (7:49)
Be Your Own Superhero: vimeo.com/363363105 (1:00)
How We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/oYJ38lHMn64/видео.html (3:13)
Why We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/kcamLd-3kug/видео.html (6:07)
When We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/1JYI6rv9GGk/видео.html (4:45)
What Will Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/rfoYGT6UytY/видео.html (7:10)
Guy’s peer reviewed recent papers:
www.onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/earth-is-in-the-midst-of-abrupt-irreversible-climate-change.pdf
guymcpherson.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Clinical-Psychology-Forum-May-2019.pdf
Guy’s longer essays:
Climate Change Summary: guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/
Extinction Foretold, Extinction Ignored: guymcpherson.com/extinction_foretold_extinction_ignored/
Aerosol Masking Effect (Global Dimming Effect)
opastonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/will-covid-19-trigger-extinction-of-all-life-on-earth-eesrr-20-.pdf
science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6427/eaav0566
agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jgrd.50192
VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/HBANJeCgsD0/видео.html (3:34)
VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/3xeItd5kdt4/видео.html (9:47)
Arctic Ocean Warming and Ice Loss
VIDEO: guymcpherson.com/arctic-ice-loss/ (9:00)
guymcpherson.com/video-supporting-articles-arctic-ocean-warming-losing-ice-addendum/
__________________________
Typical way MSM and IPCC speaks of tipping points, “possible”, “may soon cross”, “scientists warn”… when dozens of tipping points have already been passed:
• amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report
• www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/19/the-tipping-points-at-the-heart-of-the-climate-crisis
science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6421/1379
__________________________
The following was originally posted on r/collapse…
www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/o18brj/weve_crossed_the_planetary_threshold/
__________
It's now obvious that we've already crossed a number of planetary thresholds: science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6223/1259855 and that the planet is barreling toward a hothouse Earth. In other words, these tipping points are in the rear view mirror, most already in unstoppable, runaway mode . Despite the way the IPCC and mainstream media speak of them, they are not merely “possible” or “in danger of”). Remember: these tipping points all interact with each other and amplify each other, like dominoes falling.
Ice - Cryosphere tipping points
Arctic sea ice loss: Past tipping point, Blue ocean event within years: ruclips.net/video/RUzokM-WTZ0/видео.html Also: www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/irreversible-warming-tipping-point-may-have-been-triggered-arctic-mission-chief
Melting of Greenland ice-sheet: Past tipping point: ruclips.net/video/3tTVz-FhkyM/видео.html
Melting of West Antarctic ice-sheet: Past tipping point: www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/12/western-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-has-already-begun-scientists-warn
Melting of Himalyan glaciers: 1/3 of glaciers gone already at 1,5C: www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/04/a-third-of-himalayan-ice-cap-doomed-finds-shocking-report
Ecosystems - Biosphere tipping points:
Canada's boreal forest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon-sink-or-source-1.5011490 - also here: www.cbc.ca/news/science/boreal-forest-being-driven-to-tipping-point-by-climate-change-study-finds-1.3198892 AND: www.nationalobserver.com/2021/07/05/analysis/under-siege-bcs-forests-have-started-emitting-co2-lots-it
Amazon rainforest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/30/brazilian-amazon-released-more-carbon-than-it-absorbed-over-past-10-years ALSO: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs ALSO: www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01871-6 ALSO: www.ft.com/content/02071ae7-dcf5-4c61-9c3c-b55f5aef8b0e?sharetype=blocked
Tropical coral reefs: Practically gone within years: www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/07/great-barrier-reefs-third-mass-bleaching-in-five-years-the-most-widespread-ever
Atmospheric and oceanic circulation system tipping points
El nino intensifying and increasing in frequency: Happening: e360.yale.edu/digest/climate-change-is-making-el-ninos-more-intense-study-finds
Jet stream slowing down and is pushing warm air deep into the arctic Happening: insideclimatenews.org/news/31102018/jet-stream-climate-change-study-extreme-weather-arctic-amplification-temperature/
Thermohaline circulation: Has slowed down: www.livescience.com/gulf-stream-slowing-climate-change.html
Indian monsoon: Already stronger and more chaotic: www.dw.com/en/indian-monsoon-climate-change-rainfall/a-57187793
Sahel drying: It's happening: news.globallandscapesforum.org/40544/as-the-sahel-dries-the-sahara-advances/
Other Tipping points:
Permafrost becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145880/permafrost-becoming-a-carbon-source-instead-of-a-sink
Permafrost becoming methane source: insideclimatenews.org/news/19072017/arctic-permafrost-melting-methane-emissions-geologic-sources-study/
Ocean methane hydrates: have started to be released: www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find
Collapse of ocean phytoplankton: already in runaway mode: psmag.com/environment/global-warming-is-putting-phytoplankton-in-danger - also here: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3860950
@@thegreatstory Hello Michael. I is a real privilege to be able to share some thoughts with you. I'm 34 years old, and I'm relatively new to this most relevant subject. I became aware of the imminence of global collapse just last year, and it's been such an interesting time of grieving and understanding for me.
I have to say that what started as a persistent interest in Yoga practice, with time grew into great appreciation of spiritual life, and it has culminated with the utmost praise and value of the main religious doctrines we hold in planet Earth at this day.
Sikhism became huge for me, and Buddhism, an Islam, and Christianity, and Judaism, and every other Dharmic religion out there brought to us by human masters who came in touch with the divine, and that where able to translate God's language into such valuable pieces of the spiritual puzzle of this reality.
I understand the modern western-science's approach and statement on this issue, and I understand how insightful it is to comprehend what is it that the analysis of stuff happening around us is able to predict in specific trends and patterns.
However, one has to have a little bit of sci-fi imagination to conceive some of the future possibilities that we may be actually encountering in the coming years.
Just to give you an example of what I'm saying, I'm sure you have considered that powerful family or institutional establishments and corporations are probably much better informed than any of us regular people is, and I'm absolutely certain that special 'bunkers' or even small underground cities may be well under construction at the moment. This is of course the sci-fi part of me doing the reasoning, which also rings quite, well, reasonable, and beyond doubt if you ask me.
This example makes me think of course of the Saint John's writing in Revelations where he says how Kings and their slaves go into their caves when the whole thing unravels. Makes me wonder if I could be lucky enough to serve one of these people given the fact that I'm no King, or prince, or chief of state or any of that.
I've brought the subject on the table with my teacher Bob Thurman, which I think you may know, and he's one filled with great hope for a Great Turning in which we will be able to save ourselves and the planet from this huge catastrophe. He may just not be willing to acknowledge to his audience yet what other things he might be considering, but in any case he would fall to me on the category of seeming denial at the moment.
In your case, I'm quite puzzled on why do you consider Christian prophecies not to be true, or even also Islamic ones which are so fascinatingly intertwined with the one's on the Bible.
To me, they explain so vividly every single disturbing thing happening at the global stage right now, it would be impossible not to make the correlation.
I would love to know, Michael, what is your stance on any of the prophecies that appeal to some kind of End of Times, it would be so valuable to hear your posture on this subject.
Than you!
@@Anand.Harprem In response to your questions, I invite you to spend some time here: michaeldowd.org/ and here: postdoom.com/resources/ and follow your heart and your interests. If you send me an email I'll send you a PDF of my book, TGFE. My email address is MichaelBDowd(AT)gmail
@thegreatstory I waited a couple of days to see 'comments' from the 'young men' that have a go at you my good Rev. Maybe it is just for me to do that...
I am sad for your grandchild and sad for the conversation you are to have, that no impending doom stopped the desire to reproduce, even if the planet is on fire.
You may want to start your conversations with the youth that are starting their lives with this burden. Two human fires are about to explode.
What to do with refugees trying to move to safer climates, and also the anger that will be unleashed by youth, that sadly don't have happy 'enjoy every moment' elders.
There is no concerted 'WE'... the youth have nothing to look forward to... start addressing them
I receive your coaching with gratitude. I will, indeed, start addressing youth more specifically and consciously. But please don't waste time being sad for my granddaughter. For every one day of pain or suffering she will experience before the Grim Reaper takes her (most likely in the next decade or two), I can confidently say that she will enjoy (and provide) hundreds, perhaps thousands, of days of joy and happiness. Re speaking with young people, I usually start by recommending ALL the short posts on Collapsosaurus Rex, but especially "Collapse and the Stages of Grief": web.archive.org/web/20210306102507/collapsosaurus-rex.com/ You can listen here: soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/collapsosaurus-rex-collapse-and-stages-of-grief
@@mhdhunter Nonsense. People throughout human (anthropocentic civilizational) history (not to be confused with truly sustainable, ecocentric cultures) knew damn well that any year could be your last, due to bad harvest, floods, drought, foreign waring raiders, etc. Our sense that we are entitled to a long life without troubles is an aberration. Personally, I suspect that things are going to unravel way, way, WAY too fast for children or teens to live years (much less decades) with deep and profound anxiety. I expect 90-99% of our species (and most mammals larger than small burrowing ones) to die this decade.Moreover, I expect most of those mammals and humans to die within two years of things getting really bad. In other words, most children and adults of all the species that are destined for extinction are NOT, I suspect, going to suffer for long. Most (excepting, of course, "civilized" folk and our domesticated animals) will live relatively "Wild, Free, and Happy" until they rather rapidly perish from starvation or heat-related sickness or conflict or nuclear radiation. If you've not read or listened to Rick Reese's must read or must listen to book, I cannot recommend it too highly: soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/sets/richard-adrian-reese-wild-free-happy
@@thegreatstory I mistakenly deleted my last message for you:
May the road rise to meet you, May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, The rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again, May God hold you in the hollow of his hand.
All the best
@@mhdhunter I was wondering why your message was deleted. Thank you for reposting!! I'm Irish and I do, indeed, greatly appreciate your appreciation and blessing...truly! (I just added to my comment to you, above. Do read Rick Reese's work. He's the best of the best!)
way next level stuff. . . the kind of stuff God hears.
Thank, John!
Daughter looks like Connie. Thank you's
Excellent conversation but nothing will come of it. Human greed and ignorance will destroy the entire human race.
Not exactly. Human-centeredness has already destroyed the entire human race and most complex forms of life; it's just taking time to unfold. It's already well underway, accelerating, and unstoppable.
When realizing continuity with G🌎D, I agree that acceptance of mortality becomes possible. However, mortality of G🌍D does become increasingly personal and difficult, for me.
Well guys...they were having babies right until the end at Masada and then the mother and father killed their child then themselves. Life and humanity to the end 💔😢....I guess that's the way it will be. Life will try to find a way. Maybe there will be a great awakening for some.....anyway, all my best to one and all.
OH! And while we are moralizing over profound matters let us take time out for a commercial announcement.
😳💜🙏
Amen!
It’s an addiction to money plain and simple.
Yeah, a monetary system commits us to a survival mode. There's no time for consciousness, when you are just trying to survive. We can't expect otherwise.We're not gods yet. If we survive long enough A.I. might acheive it. And then god help the galaxy if the likes of us migrate.
@@mrrecluse7002 We are a hybrid of “gods”, real flesh and blood beings with what we’d consider godlike abilities,
and Earth apes.
A manufactured worker-bee species capable of speech, high cognitive function, and with a strong genetically induced urge
I suspect to be “gods”.
A species that was utilized, primarily for mining and construction, and then abandoned to fend for ourselves long long ago.
And ever since then we’ve been engaging in the most horrific atrocities against each other in our individual and cooperative attempts to be gods.
Prove me wrong!
@@mischevious That's Zecharia Sitchens theory, and you are the one who must prove it, not me.
I'm certainly sympathetic to the theory. We're freaks of nature on this planet. We don't fit it. We may very well be alien hybrids. I sure as hell don't know, and I propose neither do you. When you challenge me to prove the theory wrong, how the hell am I supposed to do that?
Don't ask the impossible. Chill. I'm actually on your side, I think, believe it or not.
You really are mischevious, aren't you?
@@mrrecluse7002 That was the point of that one yes!😉
No one can prove diddly, but it does feel correct.
What I find curious is that I came up with this correct feeling theory, that rather felt like a realization of truth that I had utterly no basis for, around age 21 long before I’d ever heard of Sitchen. Just came to me one day as I was driving the Ventura highway along the ocean, chalk full of logic in regard to human behavior and along with a peaceful feeling of knowing.
With nothing whatsoever to back up that “knowing”!
Which is why I posed it with the tongue in cheek prove me wrong!
PS; We do fit in. But only if we ditch all the tech and..literally everything else we’ve created and return to living simply, in harmony with nature.
Which it’s entirely too late for of course!
Happy day anyway!
@@mischevious Yeah, it's facinating to talk about. My friend and I have had many a laughs and comiserations about it over the years (not derogatory ones), and he went to one of Sichens lectures.
Thank you, and a happy day to you also!
Antinatalism cannot be imposed; it must be arrived at.
Agree. And so we will barrel ass our merry way to 10 billion, or culled naturally before we reach it.
@@mrrecluse7002 Like most species, we are programmed to fill all available habitat. Our technology and ability to extract energy, has made this boom/bust cycle an epic one.
@@bumblebee9337 Yes, and human nature is what it is, and in my opinion it is allready too late for anything but adaptation...which is a pretty sucky and ify proposition of itself. It seems that by the time geoengineering might make a dent, (which I greatly doubt, and could also backfire), we will allready have ravaged the planet. Nature can't wait.
You mentioned habitat. Let's just say that we are about to discover something heretofore inconceivable... human habitat loss.
@@mrrecluse7002 and @Bumblebee 9337 -- Y'all don't seem to realize that Ma Gaia has already activated her own SEVERE human population strategy. I suspect there is no more than a 20% likelihood that any mammal larger than a small burrowing animal will survive abrupt climate change (10,000 years of climate change in half a human lifetime). Most insects and vertebrates (including birds, mammals, humans) will perish in the next twenty years.
No matter how much civil disobedience… no matter who, or which party, is voted into office… no matter how many people take to the streets or change their habits… no matter how much "evolution of consciousness" occurs in the coming decade or two…
The ice of the world - in the Arctic, Greenland, Anarctica, and mountain glaciers - will continue to melt and do so in an unstoppable, increasingly rapid way.
The world’s forest - in the Amazon, Western U.S., Australia, Canadian and Russian Boreal forest, etc - will continue to burn and do so in an unstoppable and accelerating way.
The insects, amphibians, mammals, birds, and, indeed most land vertebrates, and the dolphins, whales, fish, corals, plankton, and, indeed, most life in the seas will perish.
The weather - floods, hurricanes, typhoons, tornados, hail storms, droughts, and inevitable wildfires - will grow ever more severe, damaging, and deadly until they’re all gone.
Excellent Evidence-based Videos and Papers by Guy McPherson: guymcpherson.com/
Edge of Extinction: Maybe I’m Wrong: ruclips.net/video/KxKBcy_28_g/видео.html (8:36)
‘May' and ‘Might' Become ‘Is': ruclips.net/video/-U45PMTOicM/видео.html (7:49)
Be Your Own Superhero: vimeo.com/363363105 (1:00)
How We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/oYJ38lHMn64/видео.html (3:13)
Why We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/kcamLd-3kug/видео.html (6:07)
When We Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/1JYI6rv9GGk/видео.html (4:45)
What Will Go Extinct: ruclips.net/video/rfoYGT6UytY/видео.html (7:10)
Guy’s peer reviewed recent papers:
www.onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/earth-is-in-the-midst-of-abrupt-irreversible-climate-change.pdf
guymcpherson.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Clinical-Psychology-Forum-May-2019.pdf
Guy’s longer essays:
Climate Change Summary: guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/
Extinction Foretold, Extinction Ignored: guymcpherson.com/extinction_foretold_extinction_ignored/
Aerosol Masking Effect (Global Dimming Effect)
opastonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/will-covid-19-trigger-extinction-of-all-life-on-earth-eesrr-20-.pdf
science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6427/eaav0566
agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jgrd.50192
VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/HBANJeCgsD0/видео.html (3:34)
VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/3xeItd5kdt4/видео.html (9:47)
Arctic Ocean Warming and Ice Loss
VIDEO: guymcpherson.com/arctic-ice-loss/ (9:00)
guymcpherson.com/video-supporting-articles-arctic-ocean-warming-losing-ice-addendum/
________________________
Typical way MSM and IPCC speaks of tipping points, “possible”, “may soon cross”, “scientists warn”… when dozens of tipping points have already been passed:
• amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/23/climate-change-dangerous-thresholds-un-report
• www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/19/the-tipping-points-at-the-heart-of-the-climate-crisis
science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6421/1379
________________________
The following was originally posted on r/collapse…
www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/o18brj/weve_crossed_the_planetary_threshold/
________
It's now obvious that we've already crossed a number of planetary thresholds: science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6223/1259855 and that the planet is barreling toward a hothouse Earth. In other words, these tipping points are in the rear view mirror, most already in unstoppable, runaway mode . Despite the way the IPCC and mainstream media speak of them, they are not merely “possible” or “in danger of”). Remember: these tipping points all interact with each other and amplify each other, like dominoes falling.
Ice - Cryosphere tipping points
Arctic sea ice loss: Past tipping point, Blue ocean event within years: ruclips.net/video/RUzokM-WTZ0/видео.html Also: www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/irreversible-warming-tipping-point-may-have-been-triggered-arctic-mission-chief
Melting of Greenland ice-sheet: Past tipping point: ruclips.net/video/3tTVz-FhkyM/видео.html
Melting of West Antarctic ice-sheet: Past tipping point: www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/12/western-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-has-already-begun-scientists-warn
Melting of Himalyan glaciers: 1/3 of glaciers gone already at 1,5C: www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/04/a-third-of-himalayan-ice-cap-doomed-finds-shocking-report
Ecosystems - Biosphere tipping points:
Canada's boreal forest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon-sink-or-source-1.5011490 - also here: www.cbc.ca/news/science/boreal-forest-being-driven-to-tipping-point-by-climate-change-study-finds-1.3198892 AND: www.nationalobserver.com/2021/07/05/analysis/under-siege-bcs-forests-have-started-emitting-co2-lots-it
Amazon rainforest becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/apr/30/brazilian-amazon-released-more-carbon-than-it-absorbed-over-past-10-years ALSO: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs ALSO: www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01871-6 ALSO: www.ft.com/content/02071ae7-dcf5-4c61-9c3c-b55f5aef8b0e?sharetype=blocked
Tropical coral reefs: Practically gone within years: www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/07/great-barrier-reefs-third-mass-bleaching-in-five-years-the-most-widespread-ever
Atmospheric and oceanic circulation system tipping points
El nino intensifying and increasing in frequency: Happening: e360.yale.edu/digest/climate-change-is-making-el-ninos-more-intense-study-finds
Jet stream slowing down and is pushing warm air deep into the arctic Happening: insideclimatenews.org/news/31102018/jet-stream-climate-change-study-extreme-weather-arctic-amplification-temperature/
Thermohaline circulation: Has slowed down: www.livescience.com/gulf-stream-slowing-climate-change.html
Indian monsoon: Already stronger and more chaotic: www.dw.com/en/indian-monsoon-climate-change-rainfall/a-57187793
Sahel drying: It's happening: news.globallandscapesforum.org/40544/as-the-sahel-dries-the-sahara-advances/
Other Tipping points:
Permafrost becoming carbon source: It's a net carbon source: earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145880/permafrost-becoming-a-carbon-source-instead-of-a-sink
Permafrost becoming methane source: insideclimatenews.org/news/19072017/arctic-permafrost-melting-methane-emissions-geologic-sources-study/
Ocean methane hydrates: have started to be released: www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find
Collapse of ocean phytoplankton: already in runaway mode: psmag.com/environment/global-warming-is-putting-phytoplankton-in-danger - also here: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3860950
@@thegreatstory Well, you're bloody well preaching to the choir. I'm all too fully convinced that we're more or less doomed, except maybe for a few poor slobs who might scrounge underground for awhile. I re-read my posts, and don't see where you have the impression that I don't see the host of horrors which lie, more or less, dead ahead....which is not terribly important because we don't know each other from Adam....but I'm just sayin.
In any case, I thank you very much for the links. I do appreciate them, and your information will not at all be wasted on me. Keep up the good work.
Anyone who uses "Ass-backwards" in a sentence is my people!
Just ask an indigenous person what they see in US and you will get a quick correct answer.....they've been pointing this out for hundreds of years only to watch it fall on deaf ears....just think long before the invention of electricity indigenous people's told us if we keep thinking and doing things the way we do it ant gona end well!
Yes, precisely, North Pole!
📍33:56
Jesus’ parable of the wise and the foolish builders comes to mind. “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, who built his house on a rock. The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it didn't fall, for it was founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of mine, and doesn't do them will be like a foolish man, who built his house on the sand. The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat on that house; and it fell-and great was its fall.”
- Matthew 7:24-27
On Christ (AND the solid rock of the Earth and the divine Natural laws that govern it), I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand! The rock is not only the WORD of God it is the creation of God, it is literally the Earth, it’s ecosystem, and the Natural Laws which govern them. It is no accident that Jesus chose this metaphor. Our industrial society, because it has NO foundation or root in the Natural laws of natural ecosystems, and indeed, exhibits a wanton disrespect, contempt and distain for these divine laws (synonymous with blasphemy) and seeks to replace them with an inferior, disharmonious, exploitative, anthropocentric substitute, (an idol of their own creation), was doomed to collapse from the start - just as ALL human civilizations before it since the fall. Separation from Nature. The desire to dominate and subjugate Nature rather than to be a part of it and to work with it to our mutual benefit, THAT was original sin. And we are ALL, (humans and ALL life forms on this planet) are suffering the consequences of that sin. The solution is to return to Eden in humility, like the Prodigal son, to reestablish our connection to the ecosystem and hence to God, to confess, repent and atone for our sin by restoring the damage to the ecosystem that, in our arrogance, we have wrought. I believe that a regenerative economy is not only possible but INEVITABLE, as it is (and always has been), our ONLY way forward. Without it, by our own hand, we go extinct. Life needs us less than we need it. Life will recover and eventually give birth to a new species that will try again.
Doubtless Greta Thunberg will not be joining Joanna Macy in her dystopian "glad to be living in the end times" theme. Joanna is effectively romanticizing doom in the same way that Sam Mitchell glorifies it. Different ways of coping with reality perhaps.
30:35 sounds like the Rapture.
Indeed! If you've not already watched it, my latest two-part video series, "Collapse in a Nutshell: Understanding Our Predicament" has garnered 120,000 views in eleven days (which has never happened to me before): ruclips.net/video/e6FcNgOHYoo/видео.html / Please join us, if you are so led: postdoom.com/discussions/ I also highly recommend the "post-doom" conversations and resources found here: postdoom.com
0:59 " You maybe alive at the end of the world " ancient Irish proverb