@@Stevie-Steele Indeed! I was lucky enough to study music at GSMD (where the great Alan Walker studied piano with Alfred Nieman). Classical music has been a huge part of my life for many years now 🎶❤🤘
These podcasts are so incredibly educational. I can not thank you enough for uploading them! They hold gargantuan value, and I'm so grateful for this process of yours, your expertise, and the kindness you display sharing your passion. 🙏 (I can now finish watching the podcast at ease; what needed to be said has been said.)
This is some of the best content ever put on youtube. So appreciative of these! Ben you are the perfect host for this exploration. Great stories, jokes, and tempo.
Wonderful Ben- you are certainly accomplishing your mission of making Chopin more accessible. Some of these pieces were completely lost on me until I watch your videos. Excellent work!
I could listen to Mr. Ohlsson talk about music for hours upon hours. Even though I already have multiple recordings of Richter playing the Scherzi, even one from 1965 in Hungary (I'm guessing the interp was similar), I must now listen to the 1965 Carnegie recital simply because one of my absolute favorite 88ists, who I heard play the greatest Liszt recital I'd ever heard in Carnegie Hall in 2012, was in the audience.
This comment may receive no attention whatsoever, but I just have to share that I feel a similar affinity for the Scherzo op. 31 to your 17-year old self, Ben. I’m a 22-year-old master’s student at the University of Oklahoma, and after five different times trying my hand at this piece since 2016, I feel I’ve finally done it justice. I played it today in the OMTA state competition and placed third in my category!! My first time placing in a piano competition. I find it all too easy to compare myself to other players (as I am sure so many young musicians do). A year ago, I might have been discouraged to hear you playing this piece that I have for so long struggled with so well. Now though, I find it easier to trust in the process, and not draw comparisons between apples and oranges. I’ve really enjoyed your Chopin-specific content lately. Keep up the fantastic work. You really add something special to our community.
I love these videos Ben. Great job. Garrick is so fabulous in his own right. Beethoven was my first love but Chopin!! The incredible Chopin! Whose music is so pianistic and moving. What a genius.
The Third Scherzo has been my particular favorite since childhood, when my Dad brought home Van Cliburn's My Favorite Chopin. The choral melody punctuated by those tinkling bells is such a fascinating oddity, almost perverse! And even more chilling to me than the change to E minor are the more ambiguous chords that appear several bars later, suggesting a disintegration or vaporization of the melodic line. And the blazing coda is one of Chopin's very best. The only scherzo that has vied for my favorite is the Fourth. Watching your video, I had the thought that Chopin was using a sort of motivic development of that virtual fragment of a melody that opens the piece. I love every appearance of the skittering chords, with their piquant chromaticism-- the final, descending sequence is almost Straussian!
I was assigned the 3rd Scherzo as a teenager... but only because I pressed my teacher to help me with it so persistently that he agreed. He told me it was too hard and I should wait. But I loved it so much that I paid no heed. Well as it turned out, he was right, mostly. But I agree with you, Ben: That passage is one of the most hauntingly beautiful passages in the entire repertoire!
Chopin's Scherzos are every bit as great as his Ballades - yet they get a bit less attention and love. They are just as dramatic in scope, and just as rich in musical rewards. I think part of the reason for the disparity with the Ballades is the fact that not everyone "gets" Chopin's deeply dark sense of humour. If you read his humorous anecdote about being assessed by three doctors - one of whom diagnosed him as "already dead" - you will gain insight into his personality. The humour of contrast, juxtaposition, amusing "quirks" - they are all embedded within these works. To be clear - the pieces are indeed tragedies, but Chopin always processed tragedy with a profoundly bleak sense of wit that gave him wry smiles as he suffered and endured anguish and pain. He was a flawed man, no doubt - but he was all the more beautiful for it. These pieces are deeply personal to him, and reveal something important about him. Chopin believed strongly in the principle of "absolute music" - and I admire that principle. He never wanted to reveal what pieces are "about" or were inspired by. Now - I would never wish to dishonour Chopin's wishes, I would say that the absolute "freedom" he usually gives to listeners to apply their own imagination and senses of meaning is a noble ideal. But - I make one exception here. This is a case where knowing the man does indeed enhance our understanding and appreciation of the music. Seeing the Ballades as superior to the Scherzos is a product of loving the music alone. Seeing the Scherzos as every bit the the equal of the Ballades is a product of loving the man also. I love Chopin, deeply - his music, and his soul. I believe this is the key to unlocking these works. Seldom does his spirit shine so brightly as in these four poetic tragic "jokes".
I agree with Ben about the e minor moment in the third scherzo--suddenly a trap door to the subconscious opens, and we fall into a vast disquieting expanse.
....an achingly beautiful moment - it's almost too painful. Inconsolable, even. And made all the more effective by using only the fewest, essential notes.
34:47 The Saint-Saëns reference is all the more justified as Arthur Rubinstein recalled in an interview that when, at 17, he visited Saint-Saëns in Paris [after a Rubinstein performance of Saint-Saëns’ Concerto No. 2], Saint-Saëns told him that his favorite Chopin pieces were the Scherzi.
Excellent video presentation Herr, Laude. Thank you for sharing this artistic musical treasure. Kind Regards from the Viceroyalty of New Spain. Álvaro Guevara Vázquez, Composer BMI.
You and Garrick Ohlsson are an excellent team. These videos are very informative and entertaining, which makes them gold dust to me. Btw, I'm always slightly bemused by Richter's opinion that analysis was not only not necessary, but actually harmful to musical performance. It seems to me to be the starting point. Hey ho, whatever. Keep up the good work! Thanks.
You and Garrick Ohlsson spoil us with one great Chopin episode after another! I particularly love that you included the 1950s clip of the great Richter playing the Scherzo No. 2. However, part of what makes his playing appear quite fast in that clip is that the speed of the clip is slightly increased, so that the pitch is just short of a semitone higher. So the Scherzo is almost in B minor instead of B flat minor. Even the slightly altered pitch does not detract from the tremendous impression one gets from his reading of piece, it is undoubtedly one of the benchmark performances of this work. Even though Richter has attracted some criticism for his Chopin interpretations, one could make an argument that he was uniquely equipped for playing Chopin. His virtuosity and large hands helped of course, but so did his tremendous musical intelligence (which made such an impression on his teacher Neuhaus when the latter first heard him play) and his lifelong striving for bel canto in his piano playing (which he got in part from Neuhaus). And the passages that Garrick talk about from 6:29 and onwards are perfect examples of his ability to make the piano sing.
I grew up loving Richter’s Schumann but disliking his Chopin, but it’s been growing on me lately. As for the slightly sped up video, I wonder if it had to do with the transfer from the old Soviet film?
@@benlawdy The pitch is similarly altered in the same film clip of him playing the Scherzo No 2 in the documentary Richter - The Enigma (a fantastic documentary, needless to say). So something seems to have happened in the transfer from the old Soviet films as you suggest.
I’m no musical maven-I’m just a regular person and can barely eke out _Chopsticks_ on the piano-but I love this series. It’s very engaging. (Just about the only thing I knew aboutt Chopin before this was Telarc’s _Malcolm Frager Plays Chopin_ (1979) because I bought it when CDs were a thing.) I’ll add that I knew really nothing about Franz Liszt until I watched your various videos on Yunchan Lim and Liszt’s _Transcendental Études_ and now I’m a big Liszt fan. (Not sure whom I like more-Chopin or Liszt. Maybe that’s some kind of heresy in the music world but, then again, as I said, I’m no musical genius.) So you’re achieving, well, _something_ in terms of music appreciation.
I really like your analogy between a piece and a person from your past. That's a pregnant idea that could be explored further. Pieces of music are very much like people. Sometimes we connect instantly, sometimes we grow tired, sometimes we don't connect at first but do after long exposure, and so on. But much like people, every sincere work of music deserves to be approached with respect and an open mind. And it's worth working on and tending the flame of the relationship. I think of instruments the same way. I never dismiss an instrument, no matter how out of tune or dilapidated. I have a necessary respect for music.
The greatest recordings of the scherzos I've ever heard by far are Claudio Arrau's. I implore you to listen to how absolutely sublime they are. Zimmerman's Ballades and Arrau's Scherzos. Greatest recordings in all piano music.
A signature move of Chopin is to have a double perfect cadence at the end of his works, in the dominant or relative and then in the final tonic. It's in 2nd Scherzo, the 3rd Ballade, the 8th Etude from op 10, and loads of other places.
EXCELLENT video, Ben!!! I sure wish these had been around when I was taking lessons all those years ago, I might have been great, instead of just above average and might have won a lot more competitions LOL!
B minor Scherzo, and the Christmas carol: the chant was indeed printed something like 100 years before Chopin, so it is indeed that he is quoting a well-known Christmas chant here. Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz suggests it is not a "war" outside but a snowstorm. His image for the whole piece is that in the snowstorm we are looking for a rest, and surprisingly find the Betlehem lullaby scene for a glad moment; but than the snowstorm comes again and takes away the sight completely and forever.
Great video! At 27:20 there is a word in french "tombé" that means that the tempo should "fall". Katasaris talks about this in his masterclass saying that it should have a slight ritardando increasing the tension of the question in the first 4 bars. One of my prefered cycles is the one Played live by Pletnev in Italy. There is a great video recording of Richter playing Scherzo 4 in Moscow Conservatory too. My all time favourite Scherzo was played by Kate Liu with Scherzo nº3 in Warsaw.
von Lenz's recollection at 27:25 that Chopin was so particular about that opening suggests that you could have made a little more of how Chopin re-uses it at the very end in a spectacularly altered, loud, form? That's my favourite bit of the whole piece and it does bring tears to my eyes when I hear it played well (by eg Ashkenazy or Laude) - just like tears came to my eyes as I listened to Beethoven's 7th symphony 1st movement last night. I took 2 of my 3 sons to hear that. Just the last half of a concert that had Dvorjak and Sibelius in the first half, as I thought it was worth showing them how God speaks through music. Like how He does at the very end of Chopin's Scherzo no. 2. Great video as usual, Ben! Many thanks! You should do one on his Waltzes quick whilst the iron is still hot, that waltz having been discovered yesterday. What an incredible Waltz it is, too...
Alan was telling me a couple weeks ago that some Times reporter wanted to interview him about Chopin waltzes and he didn’t know why. Now we know! Yeah I’ll do something on the new waltz for that episode - it’s only a couple weeks away.
That’s so funny that the second scherzo was your first big piece that you later became estranged from, because I have exactly the same story, and I met an acquaintance at MTNA that said the same thing! 😂 I think I played it slightly earlier than you did, though, which I kind of regret, because I think part of it for me was that I wasn’t technically skilled enough to do what the piece demanded of me, so that ended up becoming frustrated at my own inability to play it well.
Hi Ben and Garrick, one transition very alike in the way it contrasts or extrapolate sections is found in the Polonaise op 44 before the recap of first theme leading to the coda.
Bloody hell, if I had the chance to go back in time and hear young Chopin play his Scherzos (and Ballades... and...) himself, I'd even accept the punishment to never be able to come back (no shower, no electricity, no Rachmaninoff, no movies... pretty serious stuff). I better be accepted as his student, too, if I think about it! :D
I was hoping to learn Where’s the joke? but I cannot say my curiosity was satisfied. The opening of #4 I get as a joke, but the first three I can only listen to if I forget they are called scherzi.
After listening to this episode, I sat in front of my piano and tried to play the second scherzo, just kinda playing around, but when I played the first bars “B-flat A-natural B-flat D-flat F”, the first piano concerto came to mind, and that’s when I realized it’s the same melody, just with a different rhythm and a different key(E Minor). Is this something that is well known, or did I come across something deep? In other words, what may be your thoughts on this?
A great opportunity to turn the joke back on Chopin comes in Scherzo 3. As that gorgeous sostenuto comes in for the first time, just think of the word "For - Mash - Get - Smash" (most effective among Brits of my generation who recognise the advert). You can't unhear it. Many apologies.
The term “Scherzo” refers to the musical form in three parts, ABA Nothing to do with the Italian word Otherwise, wonderful series! From an old Chopin lover here in Italy All the best! Marco
Glad you like the series, Marco! I never really thought of Scherzo as just referring to ABA form - lots of music is in ABA, and some of the classical scherzos I know are often more like ABABA, etc. Surely the name “scherzo” meant something to composers?
@@benlawdyI don’t think so Scherzos in Simphonies for instance often are quite dramatic if not tragic… Cortot said that if a pianist has no sense of drama should not approach Chopin’s Scherzos And drama is far away from Italian word “Scherzo” Keep the good work on! Marco
The MOST boring live performance of any piece of music i have ever encountered happened to be the Chopin 4th Scherzo. Make of that what you will...It doesn't even have the merit of sounding like a Presto or anything rapid at all. Much ado about nothing, as far as i can tell. And as for the central slow episode---> egads, how utterly soporific.
A recording made at the VIII Chopin Competition of 1970 of Garrick Ohlsson's 1970 perormance (with score) of the Scherzo No. 4 Op. 54: ruclips.net/video/A2neFfmgXew/видео.html
Wow - you even got a comment from Chopin himself, Ben (i.e. Fan.9479)! So, after his latest waltz has been discovered, has he risen from the dead also?
@@benlawdy I never got into Brahms. But someone has done his Schubert d899/2 transcription for left hnd on yt and it is pretty good. Inspired me to try and 'transcribe' An die Musik so that my LH can do the singing part in the bass. Sounds quite good - maybe I will continue with that. You play that 2nd scherzo very well indeed for 17. I would say Horowitz's video version of that 1st scerzo at age 117 is also a very good one (and better than Garrick's superb version). I was listening to your podcast last night and as I heard Garrick's version, I was trying to guess who it was - I decided that, although it was not as crisp as the Horowitz playing usially is, and even though the bass ff are not as loud as Horowitz's superhuman ones are, (or as it is when he is 117 on that video on yt), I would probably have to guess that it was indeed Horowitz, but that the recording was not so great. How wrong I was! Will you please do a series on Schubert? As that famous concert pianist says (I can't remember his name but he is a homosexual) 'nothing more terrifying or unbelievable has ever been written that compares to the second movement of his d959 piano sonata). He is, as Schiff says, 'my favourite'. And what do you think of that new Waltz? How amazing! And it was found WHILE YOU WERE DOING YOUR CHOPIN PODCAST SERIES!
@@mourgoukos I wonder the same things it is slightly faster, and the pitch slightly sharper. I’m guessing it has to do with modern transfers from old Soviet film
Wow there is no better demonstration of WBMP than at 8:35. (Incidentally, Richter's performance prior to that, the one Ohlsson describes as fast, is UNDER TEMPO, by a LOT, compared to a single beat reading of dotted half=120. I clock him around 100.) Just imagine if Chopin actually wanted us to hear the musical content he wrote, and not just as a wash of hand-breaking frantic scurrying. Wow, that would be wild. But oh well WBMP is just a conspiracy theory 🤪 Edit 1: Listening to the Christmas carol in Scherzo 1, both Ohlsson and the singer are closer to WBMP than the single beat interpretation of quarter 108. I'm clocking them both around 82-83. Edit 2: WOW! At 25:35 when Richter slows down drastically, he's actually playing with WBMP! That's a WBMP reading of dotted half=120! (Better known as dotted half=60 to modern interpreters.) It's crystal clear and it's revelatory. Edit 3: Another lovely example of Ohlsson playing near WBMP (actually slower than WBMP and it sounds great). Also, Liszt's comment about every governess playing this piece; it makes much more sense with WBMP. I don't see every governess approaching this piece if single-beat was the expectation. ALSO, in the von Lenz text he talks about Chopin demanding exactly strict quavers in the B section, which is impossible in single-beat.
I confess I’ve never gotten up to speed with WBMP (no pun intended). The idea is that music in the early metronome period was actually intended at half the tempos we accept today? What would that mean for these scherzos - like, 14-15 minute long performances? I wonder if you can point me to sources on the matter. I don’t have a horse in this race (again, no puns intended), but am curious what the claims are based on.
Dear Mr. Ben Laude. WBMP is suitable for those who do not like music in fast tempos. The majority of the theory’s supporters are those who do not have enough knowledge to spot the many flaws in Wim Winters’ videos. As you know, Chopin was about 20 years old when he published etudes Op 10. Here on RUclips, a number of children, 7-12 years old, play the etudes much faster than the WBMP. Hopin had about 10 more years to reach a virtuoso level, and you and I should be so stupid as to think that Chopin played the etudes slower than the children. Of course, totally illogical! The same goes for Czerny’s «impossible» Op 299. A number of children younger than 10 years od play the exercises faster, and much faster than the virtuoso Czerny himself We know that in his own time Carl Czerny was repeatedly criticized for his interest in the irtuosic. MyMusicGenesis, quote: «Chopin demanding exactly strict quavers in the B section, which is impossible in single-beat». Let us ask him: Who says it is impossible to play at a single beat tempo? Who?
@@geiryvindeskeland7208 It's not a matter of who says what, it's a matter of what people can (and do) do. It's also not just a matter of appreciating speed or not. There's so much more to music.
MyMusicGenesis. LISTEN! It is important to remove incorrect information. That’s why you have to tell us who says it is impossible to play at a single beat tempo.
@@benlawdy More importantly, he is making me hear things I never heard before, giving me new ways to listen to pieces I thought I knew. Hats off to you both.
Be careful, and possibly seek dental / medical attention, if your teeth are simultaneously hurting as strange Japanese vehicle ignition sounds seem to be emanating from your lower G.I. tract---> "Abcess makes the fart go Honda." 😮😅😂😊
12:44 graceful or... not! Mischa Levitzky played it with a peculiar but inspiring indifference, it's from newly published HMV recordings ruclips.net/video/yuo41sce3EA/видео.htmlsi=KcuDMpSKaXfZQEiw&t=74
@@bjornviir3333 if this were an Italian language podcast, yes! But there’s variants when spoken in other languages. The Paderewski and Dover editions I had growing up both said “Scherzos” in big hold font on the cover. Of course Scherzi is “correct” in the original language, and some people say it in English too, but it feels/sounds unnatural for me. Same with “Concerti.” Other English speakers pull it off, but I sound pretentious.
I remember feeling the same way when I first heard it. It’s grown on me though, but my first impression is that was needlessly fast, square, and devoid of feeling.
@@benlawdy Yes, my feelings exactly. But OK, it's art, it's music, so there are rarely definitive answers to these things. Anyway, love your work on these videos.
@@pauloliberato6953 Garrick’s interpretations tend to be on the slower side. We listened to Richter here, who’s blazing fast but then will slow down in certain parts - but the speed, if you’re him, is a different form of expression
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
The Scherzos are funnier than most Shakespeare comedies.
Awesome to see you here Rick! as a lover of both classical piano and electric guitar - I salute your omnivorous musical diet!
@@Stevie-Steele "... omnivorous musical diet!" Downright poetic.
@@NabPunk Thankyou, although - do you really expect anything less than poetic in a Chopin comment section?😄 His poetic music must inspire us!
@@Stevie-Steele You have high expectations from the denizens of this website.
@@Stevie-Steele Indeed! I was lucky enough to study music at GSMD (where the great Alan Walker studied piano with Alfred Nieman). Classical music has been a huge part of my life for many years now 🎶❤🤘
These podcasts are so incredibly educational. I can not thank you enough for uploading them! They hold gargantuan value, and I'm so grateful for this process of yours, your expertise, and the kindness you display sharing your passion. 🙏
(I can now finish watching the podcast at ease; what needed to be said has been said.)
These videos are spoiling us rotten - such a gift !
This is some of the best content ever put on youtube. So appreciative of these! Ben you are the perfect host for this exploration. Great stories, jokes, and tempo.
I agree. The editing pace is in itself phenomenal. So much to learn, but he makes it a joy ride!
Wonderful Ben- you are certainly accomplishing your mission of making Chopin more accessible. Some of these pieces were completely lost on me until I watch your videos. Excellent work!
Ohlsson is such a wonderful interpreter of Chopin's music. Absolutely extraordinary.
i love how each episode is like a Who’s Who of the greatest chopin performers, educators and academics. can’t wait for the rest of the series!!
I could listen to Mr. Ohlsson talk about music for hours upon hours. Even though I already have multiple recordings of Richter playing the Scherzi, even one from 1965 in Hungary (I'm guessing the interp was similar), I must now listen to the 1965 Carnegie recital simply because one of my absolute favorite 88ists, who I heard play the greatest Liszt recital I'd ever heard in Carnegie Hall in 2012, was in the audience.
The Chopin smiling in the thumbnail scared me
It's so unnatural to see Chopin smiling 💀
yes, especially since most of us are familiar with dour look on his face in that image
It has to be some AI transform fake, right?
Rafal Blechacz has an incredible performance of Scherzo no 4 at the 2005 Chopin Competition. My favorite rendition of this masterpiece
This comment may receive no attention whatsoever, but I just have to share that I feel a similar affinity for the Scherzo op. 31 to your 17-year old self, Ben. I’m a 22-year-old master’s student at the University of Oklahoma, and after five different times trying my hand at this piece since 2016, I feel I’ve finally done it justice. I played it today in the OMTA state competition and placed third in my category!! My first time placing in a piano competition.
I find it all too easy to compare myself to other players (as I am sure so many young musicians do). A year ago, I might have been discouraged to hear you playing this piece that I have for so long struggled with so well. Now though, I find it easier to trust in the process, and not draw comparisons between apples and oranges. I’ve really enjoyed your Chopin-specific content lately. Keep up the fantastic work. You really add something special to our community.
@@Henry-uv9xu it means a lot to read this. Congrats on your recent success and keep up the hard work!
i am playing the 2nd Scherzo for a competition on saturday! i am so excited
I love these videos Ben. Great job. Garrick is so fabulous in his own right. Beethoven was my first love but Chopin!! The incredible Chopin! Whose music is so pianistic and moving. What a genius.
This may be the best podcast I have ever heard. Thank you! This is so riveting and so informative.
Genius series! I am your fan! Thank you for this high quality!
The Third Scherzo has been my particular favorite since childhood, when my Dad brought home Van Cliburn's My Favorite Chopin. The choral melody punctuated by those tinkling bells is such a fascinating oddity, almost perverse! And even more chilling to me than the change to E minor are the more ambiguous chords that appear several bars later, suggesting a disintegration or vaporization of the melodic line. And the blazing coda is one of Chopin's very best.
The only scherzo that has vied for my favorite is the Fourth. Watching your video, I had the thought that Chopin was using a sort of motivic development of that virtual fragment of a melody that opens the piece. I love every appearance of the skittering chords, with their piquant chromaticism-- the final, descending sequence is almost Straussian!
I used to be good.....😁
That made my day!
Garrick is such a tremendous human being! 🤩
I learned the third scherzo about 20 years ago. It's always made me think of the Beethoven Ninth's Scherzo.
I just love this channel. Thanks so much for all your work, Ben.
I was assigned the 3rd Scherzo as a teenager... but only because I pressed my teacher to help me with it so persistently that he agreed. He told me it was too hard and I should wait. But I loved it so much that I paid no heed. Well as it turned out, he was right, mostly. But I agree with you, Ben: That passage is one of the most hauntingly beautiful passages in the entire repertoire!
Chopin's Scherzos are every bit as great as his Ballades - yet they get a bit less attention and love.
They are just as dramatic in scope, and just as rich in musical rewards.
I think part of the reason for the disparity with the Ballades is the fact that not everyone "gets" Chopin's deeply dark sense of humour. If you read his humorous anecdote about being assessed by three doctors - one of whom diagnosed him as "already dead" - you will gain insight into his personality.
The humour of contrast, juxtaposition, amusing "quirks" - they are all embedded within these works.
To be clear - the pieces are indeed tragedies, but Chopin always processed tragedy with a profoundly bleak sense of wit that gave him wry smiles as he suffered and endured anguish and pain.
He was a flawed man, no doubt - but he was all the more beautiful for it.
These pieces are deeply personal to him, and reveal something important about him.
Chopin believed strongly in the principle of "absolute music" - and I admire that principle. He never wanted to reveal what pieces are "about" or were inspired by.
Now - I would never wish to dishonour Chopin's wishes, I would say that the absolute "freedom" he usually gives to listeners to apply their own imagination and senses of meaning is a noble ideal.
But - I make one exception here. This is a case where knowing the man does indeed enhance our understanding and appreciation of the music.
Seeing the Ballades as superior to the Scherzos is a product of loving the music alone.
Seeing the Scherzos as every bit the the equal of the Ballades is a product of loving the man also.
I love Chopin, deeply - his music, and his soul. I believe this is the key to unlocking these works.
Seldom does his spirit shine so brightly as in these four poetic tragic "jokes".
I agree with Ben about the e minor moment in the third scherzo--suddenly a trap door to the subconscious opens, and we fall into a vast disquieting expanse.
....an achingly beautiful moment - it's almost too painful. Inconsolable, even. And made all the more effective by using only the fewest, essential notes.
34:47 The Saint-Saëns reference is all the more justified as Arthur Rubinstein recalled in an interview that when, at 17, he visited Saint-Saëns in Paris [after a Rubinstein performance of Saint-Saëns’ Concerto No. 2], Saint-Saëns told him that his favorite Chopin pieces were the Scherzi.
Superb, thank you Ben!
I also play scherzo no.2, I always in tears when practice this difficult piece, wish I can play both four in the future.
These discussions about these great works are excellent. It i spires us amateurs to make more music - love it
Excellent video presentation Herr, Laude.
Thank you for sharing this artistic musical treasure.
Kind Regards from the Viceroyalty of New Spain.
Álvaro Guevara Vázquez, Composer BMI.
Your channel continues to explode!!! Congrats!! Thanks for your hard work.
30 seconds in and already it’s a banger of an episode
19:00 instanly brought back memories of practicing the piece for the first time 😩
Lawl
@TheModicaLiszt Hey man! It's been ages 😆
@@thegreenpianist7683 indeed! It was good to see your account here
@@TheModicaLiszt good to see you too, dude. Hope you're doing well. Take care!
You and Garrick Ohlsson are an excellent team. These videos are very informative and entertaining, which makes them gold dust to me.
Btw, I'm always slightly bemused by Richter's opinion that analysis was not only not necessary, but actually harmful to musical performance.
It seems to me to be the starting point. Hey ho, whatever.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks.
Nice work on the thumbnail art, that smiling Chopin almost looks real.
Great video Ben love your stuff. Thank you so much for the amazing content! ❤
You and Garrick Ohlsson spoil us with one great Chopin episode after another! I particularly love that you included the 1950s clip of the great Richter playing the Scherzo No. 2. However, part of what makes his playing appear quite fast in that clip is that the speed of the clip is slightly increased, so that the pitch is just short of a semitone higher. So the Scherzo is almost in B minor instead of B flat minor. Even the slightly altered pitch does not detract from the tremendous impression one gets from his reading of piece, it is undoubtedly one of the benchmark performances of this work.
Even though Richter has attracted some criticism for his Chopin interpretations, one could make an argument that he was uniquely equipped for playing Chopin. His virtuosity and large hands helped of course, but so did his tremendous musical intelligence (which made such an impression on his teacher Neuhaus when the latter first heard him play) and his lifelong striving for bel canto in his piano playing (which he got in part from Neuhaus). And the passages that Garrick talk about from 6:29 and onwards are perfect examples of his ability to make the piano sing.
I grew up loving Richter’s Schumann but disliking his Chopin, but it’s been growing on me lately. As for the slightly sped up video, I wonder if it had to do with the transfer from the old Soviet film?
@@benlawdy The pitch is similarly altered in the same film clip of him playing the Scherzo No 2 in the documentary Richter - The Enigma (a fantastic documentary, needless to say). So something seems to have happened in the transfer from the old Soviet films as you suggest.
First time I hear the podcast. Love it.
I’m no musical maven-I’m just a regular person and can barely eke out _Chopsticks_ on the piano-but I love this series. It’s very engaging. (Just about the only thing I knew aboutt Chopin before this was Telarc’s _Malcolm Frager Plays Chopin_ (1979) because I bought it when CDs were a thing.)
I’ll add that I knew really nothing about Franz Liszt until I watched your various videos on Yunchan Lim and Liszt’s _Transcendental Études_ and now I’m a big Liszt fan. (Not sure whom I like more-Chopin or Liszt. Maybe that’s some kind of heresy in the music world but, then again, as I said, I’m no musical genius.) So you’re achieving, well, _something_ in terms of music appreciation.
@@jeff__w thanks for your comment. It means a lot that I’ve inspired your newfound appreciation! No need to be a musical genius to enjoy any of it!
I really like your analogy between a piece and a person from your past. That's a pregnant idea that could be explored further.
Pieces of music are very much like people. Sometimes we connect instantly, sometimes we grow tired, sometimes we don't connect at first but do after long exposure, and so on.
But much like people, every sincere work of music deserves to be approached with respect and an open mind. And it's worth working on and tending the flame of the relationship.
I think of instruments the same way. I never dismiss an instrument, no matter how out of tune or dilapidated. I have a necessary respect for music.
Best series on YT
The greatest recordings of the scherzos I've ever heard by far are Claudio Arrau's. I implore you to listen to how absolutely sublime they are. Zimmerman's Ballades and Arrau's Scherzos. Greatest recordings in all piano music.
after endless considerations, I was so proud to have set my set of pieces to work on and now you guys made me want to learn the all series...
I was looking forward for this one.
22:24 - My first time hearing the pronunciation"SIH-neh-MA-tow-GRA-fee" 😆
The chuckling chords at the beginning of the first reminds me of the second theme of Scriabins 5th sonata…
A signature move of Chopin is to have a double perfect cadence at the end of his works, in the dominant or relative and then in the final tonic. It's in 2nd Scherzo, the 3rd Ballade, the 8th Etude from op 10, and loads of other places.
I remember seeing a video of some guy from Texas play Scherzo no.3
great conversation about Chopin´s scherzos! thanks :D
EXCELLENT video, Ben!!! I sure wish these had been around when I was taking lessons all those years ago, I might have been great, instead of just above average and might have won a lot more competitions LOL!
B minor Scherzo, and the Christmas carol: the chant was indeed printed something like 100 years before Chopin, so it is indeed that he is quoting a well-known Christmas chant here.
Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz suggests it is not a "war" outside but a snowstorm. His image for the whole piece is that in the snowstorm we are looking for a rest, and surprisingly find the Betlehem lullaby scene for a glad moment; but than the snowstorm comes again and takes away the sight completely and forever.
That’s very interesting, thank you.
Great video! At 27:20 there is a word in french "tombé" that means that the tempo should "fall". Katasaris talks about this in his masterclass saying that it should have a slight ritardando increasing the tension of the question in the first 4 bars.
One of my prefered cycles is the one Played live by Pletnev in Italy.
There is a great video recording of Richter playing Scherzo 4 in Moscow Conservatory too.
My all time favourite Scherzo was played by Kate Liu with Scherzo nº3 in Warsaw.
Interesting timing, since a newly rediscovered Chopin waltz just premiered!
Thank you so much for these videos, Ben! They give me life, chills, joy! They’re amazing! Beyond amazing! Thank you so so much!
von Lenz's recollection at 27:25 that Chopin was so particular about that opening suggests that you could have made a little more of how Chopin re-uses it at the very end in a spectacularly altered, loud, form? That's my favourite bit of the whole piece and it does bring tears to my eyes when I hear it played well (by eg Ashkenazy or Laude) - just like tears came to my eyes as I listened to Beethoven's 7th symphony 1st movement last night. I took 2 of my 3 sons to hear that. Just the last half of a concert that had Dvorjak and Sibelius in the first half, as I thought it was worth showing them how God speaks through music. Like how He does at the very end of Chopin's Scherzo no. 2.
Great video as usual, Ben! Many thanks! You should do one on his Waltzes quick whilst the iron is still hot, that waltz having been discovered yesterday. What an incredible Waltz it is, too...
Thanks! Hope you can do a special episode for the new posthumous waltz, Alan Walker was blurbed in the NYT yesterday
Alan was telling me a couple weeks ago that some Times reporter wanted to interview him about Chopin waltzes and he didn’t know why. Now we know!
Yeah I’ll do something on the new waltz for that episode - it’s only a couple weeks away.
Yundi Li’s recording of the Scherzos are worth hearing!
I love these!
You played it beautifully
That’s so funny that the second scherzo was your first big piece that you later became estranged from, because I have exactly the same story, and I met an acquaintance at MTNA that said the same thing! 😂 I think I played it slightly earlier than you did, though, which I kind of regret, because I think part of it for me was that I wasn’t technically skilled enough to do what the piece demanded of me, so that ended up becoming frustrated at my own inability to play it well.
Ben ,thank you for a such wondrous education and entertainment....
I would love to play this
I have a love/hate relationship with the #2. My taskmaster teacher made me work on it (I could never play it completely) my sophomore year in college.
Hi Ben and Garrick, one transition very alike in the way it contrasts or extrapolate sections is found in the Polonaise op 44 before the recap of first theme leading to the coda.
"Wow, I used to be good" 😭
C flat on bar 550 ? 2nd Schr? 29:27 I loved it!
Bloody hell, if I had the chance to go back in time and hear young Chopin play his Scherzos (and Ballades... and...) himself, I'd even accept the punishment to never be able to come back (no shower, no electricity, no Rachmaninoff, no movies... pretty serious stuff). I better be accepted as his student, too, if I think about it! :D
Marvelous👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️
What's up with that new Chopin Waltz in A minor that was discovered recently? Garrick has a new piece to record!
I was hoping to learn Where’s the joke? but I cannot say my curiosity was satisfied. The opening of #4 I get as a joke, but the first three I can only listen to if I forget they are called scherzi.
Since I‘m desperately listening to all of these: which plattform pays best to you? I will happily listen on another platform😉
wondering if you'll be doing all the etudes in one go because that's gonna be a lot to compress into one video if so. great series tho, loving it :)
I recorded over 2 hours with Ohlsson on the Etudes. Weighing my options….
What do you and Garrick think of the newly discovered Chopin waltz??
I was assigned the Scherzo 2 by my teacher when I was 15. Why? I was totally not ready....
Ben, search out the video when Garrick played for Miss Piggy.
After listening to this episode, I sat in front of my piano and tried to play the second scherzo, just kinda playing around, but when I played the first bars “B-flat A-natural B-flat D-flat F”, the first piano concerto came to mind, and that’s when I realized it’s the same melody, just with a different rhythm and a different key(E Minor). Is this something that is well known, or did I come across something deep? In other words, what may be your thoughts on this?
Where can I buy that Chopin merch you're wearing in the intro? :)
Ben, any thoughts on the newly discovered waltz?
CATEEN A MUST LISTEN 😊
Is the footage available of Garrick's performance of the Scherzo in 1970? Please @ 39.36 Thankyou x
Ok, I’ll ask…where do I get that t-shirt?
A great opportunity to turn the joke back on Chopin comes in Scherzo 3. As that gorgeous sostenuto comes in for the first time, just think of the word "For - Mash - Get - Smash" (most effective among Brits of my generation who recognise the advert). You can't unhear it. Many apologies.
The term “Scherzo” refers to the musical form in three parts, ABA
Nothing to do with the Italian word
Otherwise, wonderful series!
From an old Chopin lover here in Italy
All the best!
Marco
Glad you like the series, Marco! I never really thought of Scherzo as just referring to ABA form - lots of music is in ABA, and some of the classical scherzos I know are often more like ABABA, etc. Surely the name “scherzo” meant something to composers?
@@benlawdyI don’t think so
Scherzos in Simphonies for instance often are quite dramatic if not tragic…
Cortot said that if a pianist has no sense of drama should not approach Chopin’s Scherzos
And drama is far away from Italian word “Scherzo”
Keep the good work on!
Marco
@@garix51 thanks for the ideas!
The MOST boring live performance of any piece of music i have ever encountered happened to be the Chopin 4th Scherzo. Make of that what you will...It doesn't even have the merit of sounding like a Presto or anything rapid at all. Much ado about nothing, as far as i can tell. And as for the central slow episode---> egads, how utterly soporific.
A recording made at the VIII Chopin Competition of 1970 of Garrick Ohlsson's 1970 perormance (with score) of the Scherzo No. 4 Op. 54: ruclips.net/video/A2neFfmgXew/видео.html
@@davidhertzberg thanks for the link, and for your channel!
I think "comedy" in Shakespearian terms just means that no-one dies, not that it's necessarily funny.
What do you guys think of the recording of Pogorelich?
Wow - you even got a comment from Chopin himself, Ben (i.e. Fan.9479)! So, after his latest waltz has been discovered, has he risen from the dead also?
;)
Sometimes Brahms makes an appearance in my comments. Of course he was a great Chopin fan as well.
@@benlawdy I never got into Brahms. But someone has done his Schubert d899/2 transcription for left hnd on yt and it is pretty good. Inspired me to try and 'transcribe' An die Musik so that my LH can do the singing part in the bass. Sounds quite good - maybe I will continue with that. You play that 2nd scherzo very well indeed for 17. I would say Horowitz's video version of that 1st scerzo at age 117 is also a very good one (and better than Garrick's superb version). I was listening to your podcast last night and as I heard Garrick's version, I was trying to guess who it was - I decided that, although it was not as crisp as the Horowitz playing usially is, and even though the bass ff are not as loud as Horowitz's superhuman ones are, (or as it is when he is 117 on that video on yt), I would probably have to guess that it was indeed Horowitz, but that the recording was not so great. How wrong I was! Will you please do a series on Schubert? As that famous concert pianist says (I can't remember his name but he is a homosexual) 'nothing more terrifying or unbelievable has ever been written that compares to the second movement of his d959 piano sonata). He is, as Schiff says, 'my favourite'. And what do you think of that new Waltz? How amazing! And it was found WHILE YOU WERE DOING YOUR CHOPIN PODCAST SERIES!
I must confess i do not understand Ohlsson's distinction between rhythm and pulse. Can anyone clarify?
1:44 Does wifey know about that?
@@Daniel_Zalman we’re in an open relationship with much of the piano repertoire
Why so few have recorded the complete Chopin ? It’s not sooo much music…
someone please:
why do so many recordings of Richter look like they are on fast forward?
@@mourgoukos I wonder the same things it is slightly faster, and the pitch slightly sharper. I’m guessing it has to do with modern transfers from old Soviet film
@@benlawdy so it is not wrong to assume that the speed would have then been "slightly" slower...?
@ yes slightly, but still quite fast. In that 1965 performance we talk about, it’s fast
Wow there is no better demonstration of WBMP than at 8:35. (Incidentally, Richter's performance prior to that, the one Ohlsson describes as fast, is UNDER TEMPO, by a LOT, compared to a single beat reading of dotted half=120. I clock him around 100.) Just imagine if Chopin actually wanted us to hear the musical content he wrote, and not just as a wash of hand-breaking frantic scurrying. Wow, that would be wild. But oh well WBMP is just a conspiracy theory 🤪
Edit 1: Listening to the Christmas carol in Scherzo 1, both Ohlsson and the singer are closer to WBMP than the single beat interpretation of quarter 108. I'm clocking them both around 82-83.
Edit 2: WOW! At 25:35 when Richter slows down drastically, he's actually playing with WBMP! That's a WBMP reading of dotted half=120! (Better known as dotted half=60 to modern interpreters.) It's crystal clear and it's revelatory.
Edit 3: Another lovely example of Ohlsson playing near WBMP (actually slower than WBMP and it sounds great). Also, Liszt's comment about every governess playing this piece; it makes much more sense with WBMP. I don't see every governess approaching this piece if single-beat was the expectation. ALSO, in the von Lenz text he talks about Chopin demanding exactly strict quavers in the B section, which is impossible in single-beat.
I confess I’ve never gotten up to speed with WBMP (no pun intended). The idea is that music in the early metronome period was actually intended at half the tempos we accept today? What would that mean for these scherzos - like, 14-15 minute long performances? I wonder if you can point me to sources on the matter. I don’t have a horse in this race (again, no puns intended), but am curious what the claims are based on.
Dear Mr. Ben Laude. WBMP is suitable for those who do not like music in fast tempos. The majority of the theory’s supporters are those who do not have enough knowledge to spot the many flaws in Wim Winters’ videos. As you know, Chopin was about 20 years old when he published etudes Op 10. Here on RUclips, a number of children, 7-12 years old, play the etudes much faster than the WBMP. Hopin had about 10 more years to reach a virtuoso level, and you and I should be so stupid as to think that Chopin played the etudes slower than the children. Of course, totally illogical!
The same goes for Czerny’s «impossible» Op 299. A number of children younger than 10 years od play the exercises faster, and much faster than the virtuoso Czerny himself We know that in his own time Carl Czerny was repeatedly criticized for his interest in the irtuosic.
MyMusicGenesis, quote: «Chopin demanding exactly strict quavers in the B section, which is impossible in single-beat».
Let us ask him: Who says it is impossible to play at a single beat tempo? Who?
@@geiryvindeskeland7208 It's not a matter of who says what, it's a matter of what people can (and do) do.
It's also not just a matter of appreciating speed or not. There's so much more to music.
MyMusicGenesis. LISTEN! It is important to remove incorrect information. That’s why you have to tell us who says it is impossible to play at a single beat tempo.
damn im glad he left his old job
Where is your link for paid series ? I don’t see it ? I would like to join
patreon.com/BenLaude
I’ll post the extended interviews I mention later today and tomorrow
Thanks ! I also subscribe Josh wright ! Yours is also excellent! Hope you cover other composers as well in the future !
There is just so much detail in how Ohlsson gives us these pieces.
Even the greats sound hurried and lacking in detail compared to Ohlsson's.
Yes, they’re at times very spacious but he always uses that space to collects details and generate lots of anticipation and deliver great payoffs.
@@benlawdy More importantly, he is making me hear things I never heard before, giving me new ways to listen to pieces I thought I knew.
Hats off to you both.
I think it's pronounced Share-zo. Also it's pronounced Chop-pin.
@@SuperKripke “show-PAN”
Be careful, and possibly seek dental / medical attention, if your teeth are simultaneously hurting as strange Japanese vehicle ignition sounds seem to be emanating from your lower G.I. tract--->
"Abcess makes the fart go Honda." 😮😅😂😊
12:44 graceful or... not! Mischa Levitzky played it with a peculiar but inspiring indifference, it's from newly published HMV recordings ruclips.net/video/yuo41sce3EA/видео.htmlsi=KcuDMpSKaXfZQEiw&t=74
isnt the plural of Scherzo...Scherzi?
@@bjornviir3333 if this were an Italian language podcast, yes! But there’s variants when spoken in other languages. The Paderewski and Dover editions I had growing up both said “Scherzos” in big hold font on the cover. Of course Scherzi is “correct” in the original language, and some people say it in English too, but it feels/sounds unnatural for me. Same with “Concerti.” Other English speakers pull it off, but I sound pretentious.
@@benlawdy ok...which is your favourite? i play 1 and 3, they rock.
Another great video. However, that Richter performance does absolutely nothing for me. Simply not good.
I remember feeling the same way when I first heard it. It’s grown on me though, but my first impression is that was needlessly fast, square, and devoid of feeling.
@@benlawdy Yes, my feelings exactly. But OK, it's art, it's music, so there are rarely definitive answers to these things. Anyway, love your work on these videos.
i'm sorry, but i don't understand why pieces have to be played so fast!.. It hampers all expression.
@@pauloliberato6953 Garrick’s interpretations tend to be on the slower side. We listened to Richter here, who’s blazing fast but then will slow down in certain parts - but the speed, if you’re him, is a different form of expression