Betrayal with a fake sickness followed by death from a real sickness is pretty poetic justice for Lü Meng regardless of wherher any long-bearded ghosts had anything to do with it
14:11 I like how even 1500 years ago people were putting together Tier Lists of who could take who in a fight like it's Screw Attack Death Battle Like two scholars sitting around a table being like: "Yeah Zhao Yun is pretty good, but Lü Meng, he was a GOAT."
Previously: "The Late Scholar Lü Meng" This episode: "The Late Lü Meng" ...I'll see myself out. Thanks for the series! Looking forward to whatever you have planned next.
While lu meng was not 'pig' like teammate, considering his successes, he does fit the bill for this saying as he basically set up the two kingdoms to fall to wei
Lu Meng's actions in this campaign are fairly rightly condemned, as you pointed out, he did basically violate the established rules of war, backstabbed an allied faction and this would have long term detrimental effects on Wu as it basically destroyed cooperative relations with Liu Bei and led to the weakening of both Southern Warlords to the gain of Wei. Thus may a traitor betray himself and do good he does not intend.
During China's Spring and Autumn Period, there was a case of soldiers disguising themselves as merchants to attack a city. Xun Wu led troops to the Dongyang region and sent soldiers disguised as merchants buying grain. They secretly carried weapons and armor, pretending to rest outside the gates of the ancient city of Xiyang. They then launched a surprise attack and successfully captured the city. (This event was recorded in books that Guan Yu himself often read.)
Lu Meng’s inability to handle the aftermath was mainly due to his untimely death. Furthermore, the southern regimes in China were generally weaker than the northern ones (throughout history, northern regimes were often stronger than those in the south). Under such circumstances, blaming Sun Quan for launching a surprise attack on Jing is meaningless. The strategic importance of Jing to Sun Quan far outweighed the benefits of an alliance with Shu Han.
Honestly could've been worse for him all things considered, not everyone gets to go down in a top list of people. I think it's part of why him never being unique in Total War bugged me, love him or hate him, he was highly talented.
Thanks again for this awesome “Let’s Talk Lore” series, ST. This was a very good dissertation about one of Wu’s lesser “well-known”military personnel. I thoroughly enjoyed it! Can’t wait to see what you have in store next! 🎉
Such things are quite common in Chinese history. During the Chu-Han Contention period, Liu Bang sent Li Shiqi to persuade the Kingdom of Qi to form an alliance. Qi King Tian Guang agreed and had Li Shiqi stay and entertain him. Prior to this, Han Xin had been ordered by Liu Bang to attack Qi. After learning that Li Shiqi successfully convinced Qi to ally, Han Xin initially planned to retreat. However, Kuai Che convinced Han Xin to continue the attack, arguing that since Liu Bang had not issued a command to retreat, Han Xin should follow Liu Bang’s order to eliminate Qi’s military force completely. Han Xin agreed, and attacked the unprepared Qi. Tian Guang was furious when he heard the news and had Li Shiqi executed. Later, during the war against Xiang Yu, Liu Bang sent Hou Gong to pretend to seek peace with Xiang Yu. Xiang Yu agreed. The two sides agreed to make the Hong Gou River the boundary. After the agreement, Xiang Yu led his troops eastward to return, but Liu Bang broke the promise and pursued him. Xiang Yu was defeated at Gaixia, and Guan Ying pursued him all the way to Dongcheng, where he beheaded 80,000 men. Later, Xiang Yu broke through and fled to the Wu River. Feeling he had no face to return to his hometown, he refused to cross the river and ultimately took his own life. In ancient China, there is a saying, “兵不厭詐” (bīng bù yàn zhà), which means that deception is not excluded in warfare to achieve victory. Han Xin’s attack on Qi is also considered a positive example in military strategy by the famous Tang general Li Jing. When Li Jing fought against the Turks, some suggested negotiating with the Turks, then secretly ambushing them. Li Jing praised this proposal, seeing it as a brilliant strategy like Han Xin’s attack on Qi. Sun Quan’s father and brother also used similar tactics. Before Sun Jian fought against Dong Zhuo, he didn’t have enough soldiers. So, Sun Jian invited his colleagues over for a drink, then killed them and absorbed their forces. Sun Ce, while fighting against Huang Zu, allied with Liu Xun. After Liu Xun led the main forces away, Sun Ce ambushed Liu Xun's headquarters.
Calling sick even when you're fine: Wu: lu meng Jin: sima yi (twice) Wei: that one guy who got beaten to dead by sima zhao sword pommel (forget) Shu: nothing comes to my mind
Even though it's not Lu Xun's decision to attack Jing, am I the only one bothered that Lu Xun egged Lu Meng on to go ahead with it? I always thought Lu Xun was one of the bright spots of later Wu, but it seems after Lu Su, no one in the South could see the bigger picture any more.
3:56 When Guan Yu lacking food supplies, and forcefully borrowed rice from Wu at Xiang Pass. Did Guan Yu army asking permission for food supplies or simply seized it?
Aha! I just randomly got reccomended your Han Dynasty taxation policy video right before this one, and that video also touched on the allowance of free trade amongst merchants between all kngdoms. What comes around goes around ey?
I've been thinking the same thing! I often hear Xiahou Dun as the most overrated character in the novels / romance etc. But i can't for the life of me figure out what Zhang Fei's contributions are that make him so important! He seems to just be an angry drunk guy everytime i see him in media xD (Except that one time he scared off ONE MILLION of Cao Cao troops at Changban :P )
@@Moonhowler89 Hell he was on that list of best ancient generals that was mentioned at the end of the video. So he must have been a competent general at least. But I also know he was murdered by his own soldiers while he slept, so who knows. I would also love to see a lore series on him since other than what you and I said, I don't know much about him.
Betrayal with a fake sickness followed by death from a real sickness is pretty poetic justice for Lü Meng regardless of wherher any long-bearded ghosts had anything to do with it
14:11 I like how even 1500 years ago people were putting together Tier Lists of who could take who in a fight like it's Screw Attack Death Battle
Like two scholars sitting around a table being like: "Yeah Zhao Yun is pretty good, but Lü Meng, he was a GOAT."
Lu Meng a classic example of you die a hero or live long enough to be come a villain, oh wait Guan Yu haunt him to death shortly after Lel
Previously: "The Late Scholar Lü Meng"
This episode: "The Late Lü Meng"
...I'll see myself out.
Thanks for the series! Looking forward to whatever you have planned next.
Why am I saying “Don’t do it, Wu” to my screen even though this happened almost 2000 years ago?
Lol relatable 😂
Arnold Schwarzenegger running meme
Arnold Schwarzenegger running meme 😂🏃♂️
While lu meng was not 'pig' like teammate, considering his successes, he does fit the bill for this saying as he basically set up the two kingdoms to fall to wei
Lu Meng's actions in this campaign are fairly rightly condemned, as you pointed out, he did basically violate the established rules of war, backstabbed an allied faction and this would have long term detrimental effects on Wu as it basically destroyed cooperative relations with Liu Bei and led to the weakening of both Southern Warlords to the gain of Wei.
Thus may a traitor betray himself and do good he does not intend.
During China's Spring and Autumn Period, there was a case of soldiers disguising themselves as merchants to attack a city.
Xun Wu led troops to the Dongyang region and sent soldiers disguised as merchants buying grain. They secretly carried weapons and armor, pretending to rest outside the gates of the ancient city of Xiyang. They then launched a surprise attack and successfully captured the city.
(This event was recorded in books that Guan Yu himself often read.)
Lu Meng’s inability to handle the aftermath was mainly due to his untimely death. Furthermore, the southern regimes in China were generally weaker than the northern ones (throughout history, northern regimes were often stronger than those in the south). Under such circumstances, blaming Sun Quan for launching a surprise attack on Jing is meaningless. The strategic importance of Jing to Sun Quan far outweighed the benefits of an alliance with Shu Han.
Honestly could've been worse for him all things considered, not everyone gets to go down in a top list of people.
I think it's part of why him never being unique in Total War bugged me, love him or hate him, he was highly talented.
Thanks again for this awesome “Let’s Talk Lore” series, ST. This was a very good dissertation about one of Wu’s lesser “well-known”military personnel. I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Can’t wait to see what you have in store next! 🎉
check the community post for the latest poll on the next series
@ Just did and voted!
Such things are quite common in Chinese history.
During the Chu-Han Contention period,
Liu Bang sent Li Shiqi to persuade the Kingdom of Qi to form an alliance. Qi King Tian Guang agreed and had Li Shiqi stay and entertain him.
Prior to this, Han Xin had been ordered by Liu Bang to attack Qi. After learning that Li Shiqi successfully convinced Qi to ally, Han Xin initially planned to retreat. However, Kuai Che convinced Han Xin to continue the attack, arguing that since Liu Bang had not issued a command to retreat, Han Xin should follow Liu Bang’s order to eliminate Qi’s military force completely. Han Xin agreed, and attacked the unprepared Qi.
Tian Guang was furious when he heard the news and had Li Shiqi executed.
Later, during the war against Xiang Yu, Liu Bang sent Hou Gong to pretend to seek peace with Xiang Yu. Xiang Yu agreed.
The two sides agreed to make the Hong Gou River the boundary. After the agreement, Xiang Yu led his troops eastward to return, but Liu Bang broke the promise and pursued him. Xiang Yu was defeated at Gaixia, and Guan Ying pursued him all the way to Dongcheng, where he beheaded 80,000 men. Later, Xiang Yu broke through and fled to the Wu River. Feeling he had no face to return to his hometown, he refused to cross the river and ultimately took his own life.
In ancient China, there is a saying, “兵不厭詐” (bīng bù yàn zhà), which means that deception is not excluded in warfare to achieve victory.
Han Xin’s attack on Qi is also considered a positive example in military strategy by the famous Tang general Li Jing. When Li Jing fought against the Turks, some suggested negotiating with the Turks, then secretly ambushing them. Li Jing praised this proposal, seeing it as a brilliant strategy like Han Xin’s attack on Qi.
Sun Quan’s father and brother also used similar tactics. Before Sun Jian fought against Dong Zhuo, he didn’t have enough soldiers. So, Sun Jian invited his colleagues over for a drink, then killed them and absorbed their forces.
Sun Ce, while fighting against Huang Zu, allied with Liu Xun. After Liu Xun led the main forces away, Sun Ce ambushed Liu Xun's headquarters.
Calling sick even when you're fine:
Wu: lu meng
Jin: sima yi (twice)
Wei: that one guy who got beaten to dead by sima zhao sword pommel (forget)
Shu: nothing comes to my mind
How common was the "fake illness" trick? Seems to happen often.
I mean people still call sick from work when they are not actually sick even today...
12:55 "but in reality theres a well documented plague happening in the area"
Guan "i did not die peacefully" yu: counter argument, I AM THE PLAGUE
A what if Lu Meng survived would be fun
Even though it's not Lu Xun's decision to attack Jing, am I the only one bothered that Lu Xun egged Lu Meng on to go ahead with it? I always thought Lu Xun was one of the bright spots of later Wu, but it seems after Lu Su, no one in the South could see the bigger picture any more.
3:56 When Guan Yu lacking food supplies, and forcefully borrowed rice from Wu at Xiang Pass. Did Guan Yu army asking permission for food supplies or simply seized it?
They seized it
That's the portrait of Ma Zhong of Shu Han unfortunately
I know but there isn’t one for this Ma Zhong so I “borrowed” it
@@SeriousTrivia Just like Guan Yu borrowed grain from Xiang Pass ey
Aha! I just randomly got reccomended your Han Dynasty taxation policy video right before this one, and that video also touched on the allowance of free trade amongst merchants between all kngdoms. What comes around goes around ey?
I suddenly felt sick..
Can you also do one for Lu Xun?
Have you seen the poll in the latest community post
@@SeriousTriviaOh I have after commenting I've voted for Lu Xun there but sadly I don't think it'll win. Maybe in a future series
@angelomigueldedios1697 yep probably will just have to wait it’s turn
I voted for that one, but I don't think it's winning.
Hi man please Consider making a series about Zhang Fei life
I've been thinking the same thing! I often hear Xiahou Dun as the most overrated character in the novels / romance etc. But i can't for the life of me figure out what Zhang Fei's contributions are that make him so important! He seems to just be an angry drunk guy everytime i see him in media xD (Except that one time he scared off ONE MILLION of Cao Cao troops at Changban :P )
@@Moonhowler89 Hell he was on that list of best ancient generals that was mentioned at the end of the video. So he must have been a competent general at least. But I also know he was murdered by his own soldiers while he slept, so who knows. I would also love to see a lore series on him since other than what you and I said, I don't know much about him.
What other Geneva convention list of warcrime in three kingdom?
What did Wu use Jing province for after this? Did they ever expand further west? I'm not familiar with the later era
They tried but like Hefei they never succeeded
I am a Wu fanboy 😂