Hi everyone. This isn't really intended for everyone who originally saw the video, there is nothing new here. It's just to make sure any new viewers can at least hear what I'm saying - I still get regular comments about the poor audio in that original video.
Aye, as someone who watched the original, I am still going to watch this one. Your perspective was unique at the time, and remains relevant to this day. I'm glad to see (or rather hear) an audio improvement. Keep up the excellent work, boss 🐻
I remember a prebuilt PC reviewer being shocked that one of a pair of cpu cooler fans was mounted backwards. Basically the CPU was constantly thermal throttling because the 2 fans opposed each other. The builder even tested it and knew it was thermal throttling but didn't think it was a problem. That was inexcusable. It was a $5000 pc btw
It speaks to the carelessness of the build quality: if you can’t put something on the correct way (a concept a 5 yo with a Lego set does flawlessly) how half-assed is your pressure vessel?
Not too surprising. A lot of things endure beatings many times and then suddenly fail without undergoing anything worse than what they'd endured previously. There were plenty of reports of cracking sounds on previous dives. It's just like the FIU bridge collapse where the cracks were forming in the structure after its initial placement, which were growing everyday. If they'd taken the thing back down and set it on the ground the cracks would've stopped growing - like the Titan surfacing - and it was only after it had sat on its pylons for a while that it eventually crumbled. It didn't help that engineers had told the builders to re-tension the bolts as that probably accelerated its collapse seeing as how it collapsed basically while they were re-tensioning them. If they hadn't re-tensioned the bolts it will would've collapsed, just maybe hours or days later than it did. The Titan was the same way though, it endured all kinds of stress damage with each dive and was "worn out". I think that they've at least demonstrated that you can fabricate a carbon fiber sub that is usable a few times, but only if it's treated as disposable and discarded or re-built after 2-3 dives. The window should've been twice as thick as well, and they could've done things like add reinforcement rings inside the carbon tube to improve its compressive strength. I'm sure we're not done seeing carbon fiber used as a structural material for deep sea diving, far from it.
@@CharlesVanNoland The FIU bridge collapse is THE best recent example of the enfeebling of (gestures broadly) American technocratic civilization, just an incredible instance of nobody knowing or checking all the way from top to bottom, start to finish
In the photo of Rush holding the game controller, it’s not the game controller that really concerns me. It’s the fact that the monitor mounts appear to be SCREWED INTO THE CARBON FIBRE PRESSURE HULL.
I don't think Rush hired those younger engineers because of cost cutting. My bet is that the guy was such a narcissist that he couldn't handle anyone pointing out his flaws, especially after firing his engineer who warned him about the safety of Titan. As you correctly pointed out, a guy in his 50s would have talked back, but younger engineers might not due to a gradient in authority, even if it's percieved authority. To quote the fictional version of Anatoly Dyatlov from the 2019 miniseries Chernobyl, after a younger engineer refuses to raise reactor power after correctly identifying the reactor be stalled due to an increase in neutron absorbing xenon isotopes: "Safety first. Always. I've been saying that for 25 years. That's how long I've done this job, 25 years, is that longer than you, Akimov? Is it much longer? So if I say it's safe, it's safe, and if the two of you disgree then you don't have to work here and you won't. [...] Raise the power."
Safety job contractions take 9 months training certification Philippines but better to add experience u can be government or private with good pay but end we all now safety come price most don't wanted pay .
I spent decades building SCADA systems for critical infrastructure. My background is more computational that it is anything else. When I first heard about Titan and its controls, my first reaction was “where the heck is the redundancy for controls?”. Bluetooth, for one example, is a single point of failure that doesn’t recover well from interference or other disruptions. Other aspects of the control system design screamed “you didn’t think this through” - in particular the “acoustic monitoring system” - first the concept sounded like utter nonsense to begin with, especially when you have a working understanding of how suddenly any pressure vessel can fail. It wasn’t just a lack of redundancy that did Titan in, it was a lack of understanding of what redundancy and fail-safe design actually means. Nothing was going to solve the materials problem of choosing a mixed material design, but that same lack of understanding was reflected throughout the design of the control and monitoring systems governing the craft.
I'd forgotten about your little blowout preventer joke at the beginning, and it prompts me to say: now that your channel has really hit its stride, can you please consider making a video about the safety and risk engineering involved with deep water drilling, and perhaps using the Deepwater Horizon as your illustrative example?
Had he been a billionaire he could have afforded to do it right, he wasn't and so he skimped... Compare with Victor Vescovo who spent 50 million doing it right.
He must've had plenty of confidence in the design, to go down with the others proves he wasn't worried about it. If he'd stayed on the ship it might've been different.
I hadn't considered a fire, but absolutely even a small, quickly extinguished would have left the air unbreathable and there were neither respiratory equipment available nor a way to vent the contaminated air.
Just seeing them during the lifting and fitting operation of the rim to the carbon body without helmets, high vis or even gloves is enough of an attestation to how safety oriented and experienced they were.
It may be the same video again but I'm still watching it because damn, I can't believe it's been almost an year. Feels like it happened a month or two ago but I already forgot the details.
_CHEESUS_ what a great point, to which, in other viewings of other docs, I didn't give a _nanoseconds_ thought. But the instant you mentioned it, I was forced to admit not only my OWN ignorance of relevant safety issues, but the _MONUMENTAL_ stupidity and _arrogance_ of S. Rush. _NO_ _SEATS_ _OR_ _RESTRAINTS???_ I remember how even _VERY_ _MINOR_ turbulence on airplanes tossed me around _badly!!!_
Building, we use concrete for resisting compression and steel rods as the tension members. The Ocean Cemetery, had no compression material, only tension material. Look up, empty fuel trucks, collapse on Utube when the vapour condenses, No compression resistance. I built industrial vacuum cleaning equipment, some using 200 litre industrial PVC drums, reinforced with steel rods for compression resistance, along with pressure resistance valves.
Darwin in action for all of them. By climbing aboard that death-trap, they improved all of humanity. (Well, the ones who didn't have kids improved humanity, anyway - the others just got out of the way to make room for someone more worthy of using the oxygen they were wasting)
23:22 "What's this for?" "It keeps the tigers away." "LOL, is it like elephant-repellent rock? Don't be silly, nobody was eaten by a tiger, I'm removing... " /roars and panic screams./
So on the topic of fire risk, I once spilled a glass of water on a plugged in USB C cable that was laying on my desk. It started smoking and was a moment away from fire when I cut power. Would I like that kind of thing in a DSV? No thanks.
USB C charging always unnerves me because of how much heat is generated, and I never charge anything if I'm not in the same room or at least an adjacent one. Glad to know that's not my devices.
@@Phlosioneer No idea. I've just noticed it. Every charge block heats up like crazy when I charge with USB C. Regardless of outlet, regardless of cable used, regardless of block used, regardless of device charged (yes I have tested it extensively to try and figure out what was going on). The devices heat up a lot too. I wonder if it's the electricity? I'm not an engineer, electrician, or physicist so I dunno.
@@waxwinged_hound I'm not an engineer but I’m pretty sure what is generating the heat is the waste energy as the charge brick converts 220V AC down to 9V or 5V DC for whatever you are charging. If you use a more modern GAN charger (basically modern metals in the converter that are smaller and more efficient) it will produce less heat.
A great video and a very relevant analysis of the shortcomings of the Titan that ultimately cost the lives of six people including Stockton. As I have pointed out in comments on other videos on this matter, carbon fiber is NOT a good material for pressure vessels that are subject to COMPRESSIVE stress. As you have stated, the carbon fiber is a woven material that gets its "stiffness" from the bonding agent, epoxy resin. Carbon fiber, as such, is extremely strong when subjected to expansion stress. It has a very high tensile strength. If, however, you push a piece of carbon fiber reinforced epoxy resin against an immovable object, it will split and crumple because it is the epoxy resin that is bearing the load and NOT the carbon fiber. That said, I would not use epoxy resin alone to bond any two sections of any material, whether or not they are of the same material, if that bond will be subject to significant changes in temperature and/or pressure. Asymmetrical changes of the two sections will not be equally distributed to each other because they are bonded by a different material. That's why pressure vessels are welded together if at all possible. Stockton was a narcissistic con artist that preyed on the rich and ignorant people who were sold on his false assurances that he knew what he was doing. I can't imagine how he was allowed to even operate his swindling scheme at all, the fact that the dive site was outside the areas of control of any country not withstanding. It was clearly a ripoff akin to running a bungee jumping operation using elastic straps meant for securing small items to a motorcycle's seat. Unregulated, untested, unsafe and absolutely unlawful. Stockton's racketeering killed five people along with himself, making him a mass murderer. No one should be allowed to run a scam that risks the lives of paying customers without legal oversight. The disclaimer that his victims had to sign was a huge red flag. The fact that he also killed himself is no consolation to the families of his victims. "I used carbon fiber for the hull of my deep diving submersible because it is lighter and therefore more buoyant." That statement alone is the true measure of the imbecility of the man. Enough said.
Thesis well presented & clear: why no mechanical failure before Titan - no cost cutting & serious attention to risk reduction. OGs Titan was the inevitable first. There is another method for testing the suitability of fiber reinforced composites (FRC) for use in deep submersibles: cyclic testing of models to destruction & nondestructive testing & inspection ultrasonic/x-rays etc after each dive. There is a company making deep submersibles using FRC hulls: these are ROVs & are tested, inspection. (One client reportedly is the USN.) As a test pilot and having been in aerospace (?) Rush should’ve known (did know) aviation practice is periodic inspection. Airbus undoubtedly broke many test specimens & preproduction components before using Carbon FRC on its products. (“Broke” is reference to Rush’s comment about breaking things. - so I seem to recall.) So did reputable bicycle manufacturers. OG had one data point for number of cycles until Titan’s design failed. Pressure vessel failures are often explosive/sudden such as aircraft fuselages (UK COMET jet) or implosions (USS Thresher). Sometimes one gets a warning (leaks) in a system (perhaps low pressure boilers) with a **large margin of safety** or minute fatigue cracks are found before reaching critical length. In Titan’s case, what good is a warning of imminent failure within minutes when it may take hours to surface? None.
I still to this day don't understand how he was allowed to build such a thing when he fired his engineer and yet no one was keeping an eye on it and made sure it was built to standard i mean a game controller to drive it
I’m a rescue diver and imo you absolutely need good fins. I’d argue that it’s as important as a good regulator and BCD. It’s my recommendation to every new scuba diver to purchase a good set of fins first when they start buying their own kit. They’re cheap relative to other items and they substantially improve the quality of your dive experience, but they’re also massively important in learning to control your buoyancy and managing your energy exertion. They’re also critical in being able to safely mitigate an unsafe situation (ex. Uncontrolled or emergency ascent). Remember, even in emergencies you should ascend with an empty BCD. You’re relying on your fins to get you to the surface ASAP.
Hey Alex. I just wanted to say that when I stumbled across your channel from that original video I decided to watch more of your stuff because you knew what you were talking about and are comprehensive. Keep up the good work.
"Any rational engineer would have returned to the surface and cut the dive short." Unless they were a Boeing engineer working on the first OFT of Starliner, in which case they'd upload the fix to the thruster mapping and hope no one catches them. Yeah, I know it's not quite the same as without the patch Starliner couldn't even have returned, but it still blows my mind that such a fundamental mainline failure slipped through testing.
I haven't followed Starliner in a while, they still had issues? I have fond memories of the first uncrewed demo flight with the mission control representation in the background showing the capsule firing modt of its thrusters in all directions... just saw the headline they actually made it all the way to the ISS. It's so delayed most of the crew had been reassigned to other flights.
Hey Alex, have you considered being a guest on the Well There's your problem podcast? They would love to have you to talk about this or some other engineering disaster
He built that like a 16 year old trying to turn a junkyard '71 Chevy Nova into a tuner using parts he got off of Temu. Absolutely disgusting and arrogant. I don't know how i missed the original, but this is the most concise explanation of the shit show that was OceanGate. Everyone else focused on the X Box controller without explaining how that was a problem. Those that mentioned the backwards thruster failed to bring up that they only figured it out 4km down.
I would've applied the epoxy in abundance, and instead of reaching up and putting it all over the titanium I would've slathered it all over the end of the tube - IN EXCESS, so that it's purging out after combining the parts together - and done it in a big vacuum chamber to hopefully eradicate bubbles and air pockets. Their approach of just hand-applying a random layer of epoxy into the titanium and setting it down on the tube is so janky and goofy. There were probably tons of air pockets trapped in there that would cause the epoxy to slowly yield under pressure, water ingress would shove its way through there.
Not qualified in any way. I would have turned the whole thing upside-down, literally filled the entire trough with the epoxy, then lowered the other component into it, SPLOOCH! And even then, I 'd be testing it heavily before I'd even consider putting a man into it for shallow excursions.
@@7thsealord888 Yeah, that's a great idea too, just flood it, shove the carbon tube in, then put the thing in the vacuum chamber to extract airbubbles out. Flip 180 and repeat with the other cap.
@@CharlesVanNoland Odd insight just now. Ever watch the old 'A Team' TV series? At least half their episodes would have them stuck in a warehouse or construction yard or garage surrounded by heavily-armed baddies. Their only "out" would be to cobble together some kind of armored vehicle from random parts. The Titan was an 'A Team Special'. If some guys in a dire situation had to jury-rig a *single-use* submarine from random bits, it probably would have ended up being a lot like Titan. Just a thought.
I'm noticing numerous screw-mounted objects mounted inside the carbon fibre cylinder for screens, lights/handles etc. Dear God, I hope this was a seperate liner inside the CF pressure hull. I cannot imagine driling holes of any kind (even shallow ones) in a pressure hull made of a material that is already non-homogeneous!
Honestly worth the rewatch! The minor changes and additions add a lot to video and show your growth as a creator. It's also not a very long video, so nothing is lost on the viewer's part if rewatched
If your are not aware, the US Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigation hearings are being streamed live as of 16 Sep 2024 on RUclips and elsewhere. Past hearings are available in full on RUclips as well. USCG has also published a summary of facts available on the USCG website. Lots of new (and some shocking) information being revealed in the hearings.
Honestly completely happy to rewatch this over dinner :D was a v big fan of the first and I'm happy to see your channel grow since the OG! greetings from a lab chemist! Love seeing the engineering side of science and RAs
I had seen the latest Triton's submersible design, they are making acrylic ball that will go to the depth of Titanic, it make a lot more sense to use acrylic like that, much easier to machine. And best of all, it's very open with 360 viewing angle.
Yeah that sounds like a great idea, I wonder why most real DSVs aren't built out of acrylic. It's not like it is much weaker than alternative materials, right?
My bet: CO2 and other gasses will diffuse into the acrylic and then expand once decompressed leaving bubbles in the plastic. This is a known issue with acrylic and similar plastics.
@@KnowledgePerformance7 presumably they can lower an acrylic pressure vessel with cameras, sensors, perhaps an artificial human in the form of a CO2 source, see what happens when they winch it down and up again
My gut feeling was that something sounded iffy when you were describing the blowout preventer that would "always work". I guess I should listen to my gut more often. Or at least I should double check suspicious claims when possible.
First time of watching this video. When you started on about the blowout preventer my eyebrows started to climb! I thought “this is an SPF nothing can be that reliable and if it was you still wouldn’t rely on it”. Glad it was to prove a point and not literal.
People misunderstand what the military is doing with “x-box” controllers. The logic is that: “hey, our troops are familiar with these - that means it’s easier to train our troops on control applications with them.” So, the military builds a controller with the same control SCHEME, but very much not the same consumer PCB’s and other components. They don’t literally go to Best Buy and snag a 4 pack of X-box controllers before buggering off to Somalia…
@@modernsolutions6631 US: M-SHORD, N64 controller design imitated and built by contractor because system is essential. UK: Challenger tank gunner controls: N64 controller imitated and built by contractor because system is essential. US: Virginia class submarine. *This one is often represented falsely* Off the shelf x-box controller is used to control light mast (I.e periscope) because system is NON-ESSENTIAL (the point/ use case the video maker illustrated)
Last I knew, Stockton's life support strategy for smoke mitigation in the event something started sparking or overheating was to use airline-style PBE's (Protective Breathing Equipment). It's a sealed hood with O2 canisters that provide 15 minutes of breathable air. 15 MINUTES. No way to vent those fumes of course, but at least you have a quarter of an hour to contemplate your imminent demise.
@@Alexander-the-ok They're great to help you combat a fire with a halon bottle and for short term exposure to smoke and fumes to escape a bad situation, but useless if you're more than 15 minutes away from breathable air. Which also highlights the total futility of having a fire extinguisher in that kind of vehicle when using it will extinguish your life as well.
Most if your critique is absolutely justified, but a point that should be made is that mass produced consumer products actually have much better quantified risk (because of the massive production volumes) and in many cases higher production tolerances and consistency (because if highly automated production, use of jigs etc, that wouldn't be economically viable on custom/low volume equipment, even built on military budgets.) Consumer products also have levels of testing (literally millions of hours, including red team testing by people using it wrong) that custom products could never get. Mil spec electronic components may be "qualified" and have paper trails as well as a massive price tag, but in most cases are actually just the same thing at the end of the day. I entirely agree with your points about if some products are *suitable* for use in that application, but if a product is suitable, don't be so hard on them for using mass produced consumer items - in some respects they are actually a lower risk path.
Over a year later, and I still watch videos on this, ideally from different specialists. Just watched one from a guy with extensive experience with carbon fibre composites, and he said he was abhorred by things just visible in the footage of the assembly. They didn't prep it in a clean room with temperature and humidity cobtrol, and you can even see a guy "degreasing" the titanium part before bonding to the carbon fiber with no gloves, and touching wiped sections with his bare hand. There was also workers talking about additives to the adhesive, namely micro fibres and a thickening agent. The mixing can cause aeration of the adhesive, and it was likely not degassed. There was also a single direction of carbon fiber wrap, instead of criss crosses, etc, for structural integrity. It also appears the surfaces of the titanium ends were not even roughed up/surface prepped before adhesion, and they dont even use enough to begin with (some excess SHOULD come out, but they fit it in the video with nothing extra leaking out). That's why people with different specialties are needed for a full picture.
Kind of adorable how you left in the part about trusting that Ocean Gate tested their own claims about air supply. I think we all can tell by now that they did nothing of the sort.
Ive only ever used composites for building model aircraft but you quickly learn that mixing materials can be a problem. For example using carbon fibre to reinforce a wood structure. The youngs modulus (elastic properties) of carbon and wood are very different, so when loaded the carbon carries all the load, the wood carries almost none. So in the case of the oceangate the use of both Titanium and Carbon would need extra care. If they deform at different rates when loaded that puts a lot of stress on the interface between them.
I'm not an engineer, and I don't know much about anything, but I watch a lot of hobbyist craft videos where they use epoxy, and even I knew it often leaves defects/air pockets. They clearly knew too, so it's weird to me that they just didn't care. As if they thought ignoring it would simply make the problem go away.
I might not be an engineer but if i was in charge the development of this things i would have use a new patented test procedure. Tide the thing to a cable and drop it a couple hundred times into a trench to a deeper than intended dept to see if it fails. On a serious note ive seen your other videos on subs and it seems to me that there is a lack of destructive testing.
The idea of hiring inexperience kids being "woke" is such a joke goes from "funny", to "not funny", all the way back around to "hilarious" again. He didn't want to hire 50-something white guys with 20+ years experience because they would say "No" to his most outrageous ideas. Kids, even BRILLIANT ones, are much easier to manipulate into agreement. Eeven if they think something is a bad idea. Critically, they often don't have the experience to know why something is a bad idea. This is what expertise MEANS in a field like engineering. The man wanted "Yes Men" to help him achieve his vision, because he was convinced the regulations were simply a form of gatekeeping, instead of warnings written in the blood of so many pioneers who died making submersibles safe and reliable over the last century and a half.
I love how every analysis of Oceangate Titan just shows how it's even more reckless and dangerous than it looked before. This is the first mention I've seen of fire as a risk, and oh *no* a fire at depth sounds *terrifying.*
Thanks for doing this - I will admit to having to leave your previous video because I just could not get over the audio quality. Glad I could watch, I found very informative
I'm subbing in the hope that you will make a new Oceangate video, now that the inquiry has started. Please? The full interviews are on RUclips. Lochridge's testimony on day 2 was especially interesting.
I am a programmer by training. If, right after I finished my studies, I was given the opportunity to write the controller code on a tight schedule, I most likely would've done it even if it resulted in a heavy code, not properly debugged. That's the pressure that many young people entering the workforce are under in some sectors or companies. Today, I would run a few miles from the thing upon first sight. We are dealing with people's lives. We need all of the time, even if it risks delaying the entire project. That's, obviously, something which Stockton Rush gave very little though to. Blinded by economics, ethics were quickly affected as well.
How did the make the manual pump that passes through the Titans hull that releases the massive frame safe for 12,5 00ft deep are 13,000ft ??Are was it like the widow&super glue&5inches of old carbon fibre'????
I note that at 16:52 a picture of the inside of oceangate shows the computer screens screwed into the wall of the pressure vessel. That doesn't seem to be a good idea if the screws are shape point ended. Just an observation from someone with no expertise in this area of engineering subsea vehicles
may I suggest that you put the link to this video on the pinned comment under the original oceangate video, so that people can easily navigate to this version?
On topic of David Shaw, I would argue that unlike almost everyone involved in Oceangate, he knew the risks and could make. He was an experienced cave diver, using equipment he built/customised himself. On the extreme end of cave diving, there certainly is no redundancy or room for error. If there is a failure, you will die, and I am sure Dave Shaw knew that, and I am sure he had some idea how possible that was.
I wonder if there is a recording of the crunching sounds made during prior dives, like when it got to a certain depth and when it was heading back to the surface. There was one engineer/expert who rode in the sub and was like "that sound is no good, you really shouldn't be using this" and Rush was like "it's fine, chill."
I really good video to study is the Alexmundo 2021 trip onboard the mothership. Titan had a problematic dive but reached the Titanic debris field. On the ascent the ballast failed to release, and they tried to ascend with thrusters. It had to be abandoned so they went into emergency mode and used a safety system to dump the whole ballast mechanism. What is interesting is a suspicion I had regarding the alleged transcript. I always got the feeling that a junior or intern was on the communication. In the video it clearly shows a very young lady typing in full sentences to the Titan with Stockton's wife occasionally overseeing it. My point is that if the Titan was descending too quickly this could offer a possible reason why it wasn't picked up or challenged much earlier. I am not suggesting that it was incompetence, but maybe an intern didn't feel confident to challenge Stockton on how he was piloting the Titan. Just a theory but one in my mind since the transcript appeared.
That was the trip where he suggested they sleep on the seabed (!!!?) wasn’t it? There is another story, not verified but pretty well corroborated of him getting another sub stuck in the wreckage of the Andres Doria for an hour because he insisted on not handing the controls over to David Lochridge, who actually knew what he was doing.
youtube didn't bother recommending this to me until i had finished the original once, which it had been recommending for days. guess i'll watch it again lol
i saw a marine biologist with 0 qualifications like yours who once rode in a submarine being invited to give 12-min news segments and presentations on mainstream TV. you ARE a leading expert if you choose to present yourself as such! legit - like, go and email TV stations with your qualifications and this documentary you made as the 1 year anniversary comes up. seeing the standard for some of the ‘experts’ speaking on the Titan so far and recently, especially to the general audience, you will absolutely get featured and be able to have a platform to share your thoughts. have confidence!! just because you’re not a submarine engineer doesn’t mean you’re not an expert!
The whole reason I made this video in the first place is I was sick of news outlets reporting on rumours and making baseless assumptions. People like me, and indeed subject matter experts, are rarely aired on mainstream news reports because we would have very little to say that didn’t sound either boring to a viewer or adversarial to a journalist (If you haven’t guessed, I have very little respect for most journalists)
i almost got whiplash from shaking my head so much at all the ignorant things stockton did making this sub. stockton rush was a walking, talking example of the dunning-kruger effect.
I thought the investigation would have published some conclusions about the nature of the failure by now, seemed from the recovered wreckage that the carbon tube failed but would have expected some writeup of what they found by now
Just want to add that Wired has since reported the supposed reasons hull scans were impossible (not that they absolve OceanGate even a little): "Later, OceanGate engineers found that Titan’s full-size hull was too thick for portable ultrasonic scanners, and a coating Spencer had applied to it would further block the signals. Rush decided that moving the entire sub to a lab for scanning would be too expensive, says a former employee who was familiar with Rush’s thinking."
I don't have any engineering experience, but I have a lot (and I mean a lot) of gaming experience and using a bluetooth joystick to control a manned vessel sounds insane to me. Not only can the signal sometimes simply fail and not register the commands, those joysticks can develop a "drift" with use. That means that the control stick keeps sending movement commands even when in neutral. And the worst part is that the "drift" starts randomly during use, meaning that a joystick that was working perfectly fine moments ago can sudenly start pulling you to a side. In gamming that just means that your character will move randomly to a side, but in a risky environment having no control over the direction you are going even fore a moment can mean death. The CEO says they have spares on board, but disconnecting the joystick and connecting a new one, with bluetooth detection software being temperamental at the best of days, sounds like an insane and unnecessary risk to me.
imagine hearing that most sub-sea accidents are caused by human error, and thinking "well i guess i don't need to thoroughly check the vessel's structural safety" instead of "wow i guess the standards of extensive safety inspections make it very rare for a dangerous vessel to actually be in use, i better make sure my sub passes all the 'don't accidentally kill people' tests." like think a liiiiittle bit harder about the cause and effect behind that stat
I think Oceangates CEO had every right to test and explore new possibilities with the risk of his own life , not charging 250.000 and taking other people's life's after being warned by his own employees that the construction was a pile of crap a year before the accident. They haven't even contacted the families of the deceased to say sorry. There's stress limits under water that carbon fibre does not meet and they knew it. But yet again carbon is cheaper than titanium....I hope someone takes it to a legal point and shuts that company down before another innocent life is lost in vain
I was hoping we would have a preliminary report by now but I also understand the scale and scope of such a thing is not easy and cannot be rushed. I just hope we will get to hear the exact failure mode at some point. Also I think this video is how I found your channel which is awesome because you cover a lot of aerospace stuff which is my jam! Something about silver lining...
The way that epoxy was applied and the way the ring was seated, there is absolutely no way they can be certain there were no air bubbles inside the film of epoxy and even the thickness of the epoxy film is a big question mark unless precisely measured through external dimensions measurements, x-ray, ultrasound or some other method.
“when diving to extreme depths, you want a pressure vessel with uniform structure and should avoid composite materials such as carbon fiber” Stockton (C)Rush(ed): bet
I worked for a European car company. And found myself to always the youngest in my level of training. Until after a 2 year hiatus. I became one of the oldest. It seems like safety standards in general Common Sense were thrown out the window. In place to save time and money.
Respect to all engineers who work on deep sea electronics. Either Horowitz or Hill did that work, can't recall, but I remember mentions in ART OF ELECTRONICS
My first reaction on hearing about this tragedy was to question the design being based on carbon-fibre composites... Carbon fibre is extremely strong... IN TENSION. But why does that automatically mean it will be strong in compression? After all, a steel chain is very strong in one direction, but you wouldn't DREAM of using it to PUSH something!! This basic concept made me wonder what the heck they were thinking choosing that over metal construction! WTF??
Hi everyone. This isn't really intended for everyone who originally saw the video, there is nothing new here. It's just to make sure any new viewers can at least hear what I'm saying - I still get regular comments about the poor audio in that original video.
Joke's on you, I don't like being told I'm not intended to watch something. I'm watching it again! Cheers
Aye, as someone who watched the original, I am still going to watch this one. Your perspective was unique at the time, and remains relevant to this day. I'm glad to see (or rather hear) an audio improvement. Keep up the excellent work, boss 🐻
I enjoyed the updates and the better audio, so there!
no problem. i'll gladly watch another of your videos AGAIN. because they are great!
You're uniquely qualified to explain the incident perfectly, I'll definitely be watching it again 👍
The fact a thruster was installed backwards and nobody even knew until it was at depth is fucking insane.
I remember a prebuilt PC reviewer being shocked that one of a pair of cpu cooler fans was mounted backwards. Basically the CPU was constantly thermal throttling because the 2 fans opposed each other. The builder even tested it and knew it was thermal throttling but didn't think it was a problem. That was inexcusable. It was a $5000 pc btw
It speaks to the carelessness of the build quality: if you can’t put something on the correct way (a concept a 5 yo with a Lego set does flawlessly) how half-assed is your pressure vessel?
Wtf
Lol he swore
yeah, "cowboy engineering", fix it by the seat of your pants. Pathetic.
I've watched it once, I'll watch it again!
Me too!
Same!!
Yep! Definitively worth a rewatch!
Lmao same here, great stuff on this channel.
Same! Worth every second!
The only surprising factor is how many dives it completed before it failed.
Not too surprising. A lot of things endure beatings many times and then suddenly fail without undergoing anything worse than what they'd endured previously. There were plenty of reports of cracking sounds on previous dives. It's just like the FIU bridge collapse where the cracks were forming in the structure after its initial placement, which were growing everyday. If they'd taken the thing back down and set it on the ground the cracks would've stopped growing - like the Titan surfacing - and it was only after it had sat on its pylons for a while that it eventually crumbled. It didn't help that engineers had told the builders to re-tension the bolts as that probably accelerated its collapse seeing as how it collapsed basically while they were re-tensioning them. If they hadn't re-tensioned the bolts it will would've collapsed, just maybe hours or days later than it did. The Titan was the same way though, it endured all kinds of stress damage with each dive and was "worn out". I think that they've at least demonstrated that you can fabricate a carbon fiber sub that is usable a few times, but only if it's treated as disposable and discarded or re-built after 2-3 dives. The window should've been twice as thick as well, and they could've done things like add reinforcement rings inside the carbon tube to improve its compressive strength. I'm sure we're not done seeing carbon fiber used as a structural material for deep sea diving, far from it.
@@CharlesVanNoland The FIU bridge collapse is THE best recent example of the enfeebling of (gestures broadly) American technocratic civilization, just an incredible instance of nobody knowing or checking all the way from top to bottom, start to finish
@@Holabirdsupercluster lmao ok. People like you are why aliens won't talk to us
@@CharlesVanNoland reminds me of that commercial JAL disaster where the rear bulkhead blew after a crappy repair. thing flew like 150x before it went!
@@CharlesVanNoland Fascinating analysis and good comparison. Thanks.
Industry: most deep sea accidents are caused by human error, not structural failures or bad engineering.
Stockton Rush: hold my beer.
bad engineering sounds like a sub branch of human error
In the photo of Rush holding the game controller, it’s not the game controller that really concerns me. It’s the fact that the monitor mounts appear to be SCREWED INTO THE CARBON FIBRE PRESSURE HULL.
There was an inner sleeve fitted inside the pressure hull they were able to screw into❤
@@brendan5419 haha cheers for the info, I’m glad the designers weren’t quite that idiotic!
@@svenwilson5668 but it wouldnt surprise me if Stockton had used 8 inch framing screws and driven them straight through the hull.
It all looked a lIttle sketchy to me, considering the task it had to perform.
Its was a cylinder in other words Poseidon's Playpen.
I don't think Rush hired those younger engineers because of cost cutting.
My bet is that the guy was such a narcissist that he couldn't handle anyone pointing out his flaws, especially after firing his engineer who warned him about the safety of Titan. As you correctly pointed out, a guy in his 50s would have talked back, but younger engineers might not due to a gradient in authority, even if it's percieved authority.
To quote the fictional version of Anatoly Dyatlov from the 2019 miniseries Chernobyl, after a younger engineer refuses to raise reactor power after correctly identifying the reactor be stalled due to an increase in neutron absorbing xenon isotopes:
"Safety first. Always. I've been saying that for 25 years. That's how long I've done this job, 25 years, is that longer than you, Akimov? Is it much longer? So if I say it's safe, it's safe, and if the two of you disgree then you don't have to work here and you won't. [...] Raise the power."
Yeah…definitely not disagreeing with you here.
Safety job contractions take 9 months training certification Philippines but better to add experience u can be government or private with good pay but end we all now safety come price most don't wanted pay .
Young engineers are normally also more optimistic...
@@deth3021 Yap .to pay student loans need good job
Not great, not terrible
6:55 we have that exact stepladder!
and by "we" I mean "the landlord, who lives downstairs, who loaned it so we could decorate"
Oh no, stepladder I'm stuck on the ocean floor!
I spent decades building SCADA systems for critical infrastructure. My background is more computational that it is anything else. When I first heard about Titan and its controls, my first reaction was “where the heck is the redundancy for controls?”. Bluetooth, for one example, is a single point of failure that doesn’t recover well from interference or other disruptions. Other aspects of the control system design screamed “you didn’t think this through” - in particular the “acoustic monitoring system” - first the concept sounded like utter nonsense to begin with, especially when you have a working understanding of how suddenly any pressure vessel can fail.
It wasn’t just a lack of redundancy that did Titan in, it was a lack of understanding of what redundancy and fail-safe design actually means. Nothing was going to solve the materials problem of choosing a mixed material design, but that same lack of understanding was reflected throughout the design of the control and monitoring systems governing the craft.
Imagine driving real car with laggy, third party Bluetooth controller, lunacy.
The accustic warning system. That warned you a millisecond before you were crushed by the implosion.
They could've at least used a wire control. Those batteries are just another fail point.
You are remembered by the rules you break..... Stockton Crush.
Words to live by....wait..
Indeed he will be. Sad he took others’ lives with this disaster.
"Captain Crunch"
@@GeoStreber while he was dumb for doing what he did....I don't think THAT is appropriate. Even if it's funny.
Oh, dear
I'd forgotten about your little blowout preventer joke at the beginning, and it prompts me to say: now that your channel has really hit its stride, can you please consider making a video about the safety and risk engineering involved with deep water drilling, and perhaps using the Deepwater Horizon as your illustrative example?
Gives a new meaning to the phrase 'a Rush job'
more like ‘a crushed job’
You had me going with the blowout preventer bit. I was absolutely baffled and terrified that was a thing, glad to hear it's not so lol
Billionaires cutting corners for what? To prove a point? Had he not been in the vessel he would have been charged with negligent homicide.
You don’t become a billionaire by valuing human beings over profit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Had he been a billionaire he could have afforded to do it right, he wasn't and so he skimped... Compare with Victor Vescovo who spent 50 million doing it right.
He must've had plenty of confidence in the design, to go down with the others proves he wasn't worried about it. If he'd stayed on the ship it might've been different.
@@DancingWithLucifer Even their own?
If he had lived he would have avoided jail time, almost certainly. That's how the US Justice system works
I hadn't considered a fire, but absolutely even a small, quickly extinguished would have left the air unbreathable and there were neither respiratory equipment available nor a way to vent the contaminated air.
They had some breathing apparatuses in case of fire/smoke but it looked about as non-standard as the rest of the build...
Just seeing them during the lifting and fitting operation of the rim to the carbon body without helmets, high vis or even gloves is enough of an attestation to how safety oriented and experienced they were.
It may be the same video again but I'm still watching it because damn, I can't believe it's been almost an year. Feels like it happened a month or two ago but I already forgot the details.
_CHEESUS_ what a great point, to which, in other viewings of other docs, I didn't give a _nanoseconds_ thought.
But the instant you mentioned it, I was forced to admit not only my OWN ignorance of relevant safety issues, but the _MONUMENTAL_ stupidity and _arrogance_ of S. Rush. _NO_ _SEATS_ _OR_ _RESTRAINTS???_
I remember how even _VERY_ _MINOR_ turbulence on airplanes tossed me around _badly!!!_
Building, we use concrete for resisting compression and steel rods as the tension members. The Ocean Cemetery, had no compression material, only tension material. Look up, empty fuel trucks, collapse on Utube when the vapour condenses, No compression resistance. I built industrial vacuum cleaning equipment, some using 200 litre industrial PVC drums, reinforced with steel rods for compression resistance, along with pressure resistance valves.
Rush looks like a kid with a toy. Deadly toy for him and four others.
Darwin in action for all of them. By climbing aboard that death-trap, they improved all of humanity. (Well, the ones who didn't have kids improved humanity, anyway - the others just got out of the way to make room for someone more worthy of using the oxygen they were wasting)
Yeah. Like a four year old playing with a loaded gun.
23:22 "What's this for?"
"It keeps the tigers away."
"LOL, is it like elephant-repellent rock? Don't be silly, nobody was eaten by a tiger, I'm removing... " /roars and panic screams./
Stockton Rush’s design philosophy in a nutshell
So on the topic of fire risk, I once spilled a glass of water on a plugged in USB C cable that was laying on my desk. It started smoking and was a moment away from fire when I cut power. Would I like that kind of thing in a DSV? No thanks.
USB C charging always unnerves me because of how much heat is generated, and I never charge anything if I'm not in the same room or at least an adjacent one. Glad to know that's not my devices.
@@waxwinged_houndwait, why does usb c charging specifically generate heat?
@@Phlosioneer No idea. I've just noticed it. Every charge block heats up like crazy when I charge with USB C. Regardless of outlet, regardless of cable used, regardless of block used, regardless of device charged (yes I have tested it extensively to try and figure out what was going on). The devices heat up a lot too.
I wonder if it's the electricity? I'm not an engineer, electrician, or physicist so I dunno.
@@waxwinged_hound I'm not an engineer but I’m pretty sure what is generating the heat is the waste energy as the charge brick converts 220V AC down to 9V or 5V DC for whatever you are charging. If you use a more modern GAN charger (basically modern metals in the converter that are smaller and more efficient) it will produce less heat.
@@ccllvn Oh neat! That's something I'll need to keep in mind, seems like something I should look into.
Saw the original video, clicked on it, saw this video and immediately switched over. Good on you for making an improved version
A great video and a very relevant analysis of the shortcomings of the Titan that ultimately cost the lives of six people including Stockton.
As I have pointed out in comments on other videos on this matter, carbon fiber is NOT a good material for pressure vessels that are subject to COMPRESSIVE stress.
As you have stated, the carbon fiber is a woven material that gets its "stiffness" from the bonding agent, epoxy resin. Carbon fiber, as such, is extremely strong when subjected to expansion stress. It has a very high tensile strength. If, however, you push a piece of carbon fiber reinforced epoxy resin against an immovable object, it will split and crumple because it is the epoxy resin that is bearing the load and NOT the carbon fiber. That said, I would not use epoxy resin alone to bond any two sections of any material, whether or not they are of the same material, if that bond will be subject to significant changes in temperature and/or pressure. Asymmetrical changes of the two sections will not be equally distributed to each other because they are bonded by a different material. That's why pressure vessels are welded together if at all possible.
Stockton was a narcissistic con artist that preyed on the rich and ignorant people who were sold on his false assurances that he knew what he was doing. I can't imagine how he was allowed to even operate his swindling scheme at all, the fact that the dive site was outside the areas of control of any country not withstanding. It was clearly a ripoff akin to running a bungee jumping operation using elastic straps meant for securing small items to a motorcycle's seat.
Unregulated, untested, unsafe and absolutely unlawful. Stockton's racketeering killed five people along with himself, making him a mass murderer. No one should be allowed to run a scam that risks the lives of paying customers without legal oversight. The disclaimer that his victims had to sign was a huge red flag. The fact that he also killed himself is no consolation to the families of his victims.
"I used carbon fiber for the hull of my deep diving submersible because it is lighter and therefore more buoyant." That statement alone is the true measure of the imbecility of the man. Enough said.
Hey, Alex, thank you for your comprehensive analysis. Your audio quality was fine on the first video, but I’m more than happy to watch it again!
It will be fine "*slaps the roof of sub*"
*sub implodes
This bad boy can fit so many critical failures in it
Thesis well presented & clear: why no mechanical failure before Titan - no cost cutting & serious attention to risk reduction. OGs Titan was the inevitable first.
There is another method for testing the suitability of fiber reinforced composites (FRC) for use in deep submersibles: cyclic testing of models to destruction & nondestructive testing & inspection ultrasonic/x-rays etc after each dive. There is a company making deep submersibles using FRC hulls: these are ROVs & are tested, inspection. (One client reportedly is the USN.) As a test pilot and having been in aerospace (?) Rush should’ve known (did know) aviation practice is periodic inspection. Airbus undoubtedly broke many test specimens & preproduction components before using Carbon FRC on its products. (“Broke” is reference to Rush’s comment about breaking things. - so I seem to recall.) So did reputable bicycle manufacturers. OG had one data point for number of cycles until Titan’s design failed.
Pressure vessel failures are often explosive/sudden such as aircraft fuselages (UK COMET jet) or implosions (USS Thresher). Sometimes one gets a warning (leaks) in a system (perhaps low pressure boilers) with a **large margin of safety** or minute fatigue cracks are found before reaching critical length. In Titan’s case, what good is a warning of imminent failure within minutes when it may take hours to surface? None.
I still to this day don't understand how he was allowed to build such a thing when he fired his engineer and yet no one was keeping an eye on it and made sure it was built to standard i mean a game controller to drive it
I was just rewatching the original while this was uploaded! What are the odds?!
I’m a rescue diver and imo you absolutely need good fins. I’d argue that it’s as important as a good regulator and BCD. It’s my recommendation to every new scuba diver to purchase a good set of fins first when they start buying their own kit. They’re cheap relative to other items and they substantially improve the quality of your dive experience, but they’re also massively important in learning to control your buoyancy and managing your energy exertion. They’re also critical in being able to safely mitigate an unsafe situation (ex. Uncontrolled or emergency ascent). Remember, even in emergencies you should ascend with an empty BCD. You’re relying on your fins to get you to the surface ASAP.
All that hull monitoring system could ever provide (if it even worked) is a warning of imminent death.
And not even enough time to "bend over, out your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye"
I just got re-recommended the original
Video and had re-watched it yesterday. I’ll watch this version today.
Hey Alex. I just wanted to say that when I stumbled across your channel from that original video I decided to watch more of your stuff because you knew what you were talking about and are comprehensive.
Keep up the good work.
"Any rational engineer would have returned to the surface and cut the dive short."
Unless they were a Boeing engineer working on the first OFT of Starliner, in which case they'd upload the fix to the thruster mapping and hope no one catches them.
Yeah, I know it's not quite the same as without the patch Starliner couldn't even have returned, but it still blows my mind that such a fundamental mainline failure slipped through testing.
I haven't followed Starliner in a while, they still had issues? I have fond memories of the first uncrewed demo flight with the mission control representation in the background showing the capsule firing modt of its thrusters in all directions... just saw the headline they actually made it all the way to the ISS. It's so delayed most of the crew had been reassigned to other flights.
Every one attacks Boeing
But the FAA is the entity that certified the max as safe. No one attacks the FAA
Hey Alex, have you considered being a guest on the Well There's your problem podcast? They would love to have you to talk about this or some other engineering disaster
"My name is Alex and my pronouns are OK. GO!"
I can’t think of a worse guest to appear on there. I’d be incredibly unfunny and boring compared to their usual guests.
@@Alexander-the-okoh, I disagree! if they ask, please say yes :)
@@Alexander-the-okDon't put yourself down like that!
@@Alexander-the-ok I'd watch the podcast if you were on it.
He built that like a 16 year old trying to turn a junkyard '71 Chevy Nova into a tuner using parts he got off of Temu. Absolutely disgusting and arrogant.
I don't know how i missed the original, but this is the most concise explanation of the shit show that was OceanGate. Everyone else focused on the X Box controller without explaining how that was a problem. Those that mentioned the backwards thruster failed to bring up that they only figured it out 4km down.
I would've applied the epoxy in abundance, and instead of reaching up and putting it all over the titanium I would've slathered it all over the end of the tube - IN EXCESS, so that it's purging out after combining the parts together - and done it in a big vacuum chamber to hopefully eradicate bubbles and air pockets. Their approach of just hand-applying a random layer of epoxy into the titanium and setting it down on the tube is so janky and goofy. There were probably tons of air pockets trapped in there that would cause the epoxy to slowly yield under pressure, water ingress would shove its way through there.
'Hopefully' being the operative word here. I wouldn't have trusted my life on that seal for several reasons.
Not qualified in any way. I would have turned the whole thing upside-down, literally filled the entire trough with the epoxy, then lowered the other component into it, SPLOOCH! And even then, I 'd be testing it heavily before I'd even consider putting a man into it for shallow excursions.
@@7thsealord888 Yeah, that's a great idea too, just flood it, shove the carbon tube in, then put the thing in the vacuum chamber to extract airbubbles out. Flip 180 and repeat with the other cap.
@@CharlesVanNoland Odd insight just now. Ever watch the old 'A Team' TV series? At least half their episodes would have them stuck in a warehouse or construction yard or garage surrounded by heavily-armed baddies. Their only "out" would be to cobble together some kind of armored vehicle from random parts.
The Titan was an 'A Team Special'. If some guys in a dire situation had to jury-rig a *single-use* submarine from random bits, it probably would have ended up being a lot like Titan. Just a thought.
I'm noticing numerous screw-mounted objects mounted inside the carbon fibre cylinder for screens, lights/handles etc. Dear God, I hope this was a seperate liner inside the CF pressure hull. I cannot imagine driling holes of any kind (even shallow ones) in a pressure hull made of a material that is already non-homogeneous!
Honestly worth the rewatch! The minor changes and additions add a lot to video and show your growth as a creator. It's also not a very long video, so nothing is lost on the viewer's part if rewatched
23:16 "Move fast and break things" doesn't even work for software.
Man, I'd hate to be those guys smearing that epoxy adhesive on to the ends of the carbon fiber cylinder !
Watched the OG version, and watching again, it was and is a fantastic video, well presented.
agree also reconfirms that hubris often times leads to failure.
Love it when Alex makes a video, even when it's a re-upload,
If your are not aware, the US Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigation hearings are being streamed live as of 16 Sep 2024 on RUclips and elsewhere. Past hearings are available in full on RUclips as well. USCG has also published a summary of facts available on the USCG website. Lots of new (and some shocking) information being revealed in the hearings.
Thanks, I've been checking in every now and then. It's giving me an nice occasional distraction from researching my next video.
Honestly completely happy to rewatch this over dinner :D was a v big fan of the first and I'm happy to see your channel grow since the OG! greetings from a lab chemist! Love seeing the engineering side of science and RAs
I didn't see the first video, but I'm sure glad I watched this one. Great analysis of the Titan failure from your engineering experience.
"accidents due to mechanical error are uncommon"
mechanical guidelines that have been preventing accidents: am I a joke to you?
Hey, if you want to talk about _Alvin_ , I'd be delighted to listen. Science and facts are just delightful.
Hope you enjoy it. It’s a lot more ‘rough and ready’ than my more recent videos:
ruclips.net/video/x2ulsZ6aGXY/видео.htmlsi=OraP-HvtDKmAnq44
Was about to watch the original and was indeed redirected to this one. Thanks!
I had seen the latest Triton's submersible design, they are making acrylic ball that will go to the depth of Titanic, it make a lot more sense to use acrylic like that, much easier to machine.
And best of all, it's very open with 360 viewing angle.
Yeah that sounds like a great idea, I wonder why most real DSVs aren't built out of acrylic. It's not like it is much weaker than alternative materials, right?
Also it provides better isolation - much better then a metal hull, so it would be not as cold inside on depth.
My bet: CO2 and other gasses will diffuse into the acrylic and then expand once decompressed leaving bubbles in the plastic. This is a known issue with acrylic and similar plastics.
@@KnowledgePerformance7 presumably they can lower an acrylic pressure vessel with cameras, sensors, perhaps an artificial human in the form of a CO2 source, see what happens when they winch it down and up again
@@KnowledgePerformance7 this could be solved easily with a second layer made out of something else on the inside right?
My gut feeling was that something sounded iffy when you were describing the blowout preventer that would "always work". I guess I should listen to my gut more often. Or at least I should double check suspicious claims when possible.
I thought he was going to say it was installed and lead to an oil spill.
First time of watching this video. When you started on about the blowout preventer my eyebrows started to climb! I thought “this is an SPF nothing can be that reliable and if it was you still wouldn’t rely on it”. Glad it was to prove a point and not literal.
People misunderstand what the military is doing with “x-box” controllers.
The logic is that: “hey, our troops are familiar with these - that means it’s easier to train our troops on control applications with them.”
So, the military builds a controller with the same control SCHEME, but very much not the same consumer PCB’s and other components.
They don’t literally go to Best Buy and snag a 4 pack of X-box controllers before buggering off to Somalia…
[Citation needed]
@@modernsolutions6631
US: M-SHORD, N64 controller design imitated and built by contractor because system is essential.
UK: Challenger tank gunner controls: N64 controller imitated and built by contractor because system is essential.
US: Virginia class submarine. *This one is often represented falsely* Off the shelf x-box controller is used to control light mast (I.e periscope) because system is NON-ESSENTIAL (the point/ use case the video maker illustrated)
Last I knew, Stockton's life support strategy for smoke mitigation in the event something started sparking or overheating was to use airline-style PBE's (Protective Breathing Equipment). It's a sealed hood with O2 canisters that provide 15 minutes of breathable air. 15 MINUTES. No way to vent those fumes of course, but at least you have a quarter of an hour to contemplate your imminent demise.
Yeah we had those when I worked offshore. Better than nothing I guess.
@@Alexander-the-ok They're great to help you combat a fire with a halon bottle and for short term exposure to smoke and fumes to escape a bad situation, but useless if you're more than 15 minutes away from breathable air. Which also highlights the total futility of having a fire extinguisher in that kind of vehicle when using it will extinguish your life as well.
Most if your critique is absolutely justified, but a point that should be made is that mass produced consumer products actually have much better quantified risk (because of the massive production volumes) and in many cases higher production tolerances and consistency (because if highly automated production, use of jigs etc, that wouldn't be economically viable on custom/low volume equipment, even built on military budgets.) Consumer products also have levels of testing (literally millions of hours, including red team testing by people using it wrong) that custom products could never get. Mil spec electronic components may be "qualified" and have paper trails as well as a massive price tag, but in most cases are actually just the same thing at the end of the day. I entirely agree with your points about if some products are *suitable* for use in that application, but if a product is suitable, don't be so hard on them for using mass produced consumer items - in some respects they are actually a lower risk path.
Over a year later, and I still watch videos on this, ideally from different specialists.
Just watched one from a guy with extensive experience with carbon fibre composites, and he said he was abhorred by things just visible in the footage of the assembly.
They didn't prep it in a clean room with temperature and humidity cobtrol, and you can even see a guy "degreasing" the titanium part before bonding to the carbon fiber with no gloves, and touching wiped sections with his bare hand.
There was also workers talking about additives to the adhesive, namely micro fibres and a thickening agent. The mixing can cause aeration of the adhesive, and it was likely not degassed.
There was also a single direction of carbon fiber wrap, instead of criss crosses, etc, for structural integrity.
It also appears the surfaces of the titanium ends were not even roughed up/surface prepped before adhesion, and they dont even use enough to begin with (some excess SHOULD come out, but they fit it in the video with nothing extra leaking out).
That's why people with different specialties are needed for a full picture.
Kind of adorable how you left in the part about trusting that Ocean Gate tested their own claims about air supply. I think we all can tell by now that they did nothing of the sort.
Ive only ever used composites for building model aircraft but you quickly learn that mixing materials can be a problem. For example using carbon fibre to reinforce a wood structure. The youngs modulus (elastic properties) of carbon and wood are very different, so when loaded the carbon carries all the load, the wood carries almost none.
So in the case of the oceangate the use of both Titanium and Carbon would need extra care. If they deform at different rates when loaded that puts a lot of stress on the interface between them.
I'm not an engineer, and I don't know much about anything, but I watch a lot of hobbyist craft videos where they use epoxy, and even I knew it often leaves defects/air pockets. They clearly knew too, so it's weird to me that they just didn't care. As if they thought ignoring it would simply make the problem go away.
Cool video! Thank you! Make one about Starship!
Sorry.
ruclips.net/user/postUgkxCCWW8Zgvt8doiT50oh4_ZLqeJDWjdwuX?si=uthefP3u1aW-leOi
I might not be an engineer but if i was in charge the development of this things i would have use a new patented test procedure. Tide the thing to a cable and drop it a couple hundred times into a trench to a deeper than intended dept to see if it fails. On a serious note ive seen your other videos on subs and it seems to me that there is a lack of destructive testing.
The idea of hiring inexperience kids being "woke" is such a joke goes from "funny", to "not funny", all the way back around to "hilarious" again. He didn't want to hire 50-something white guys with 20+ years experience because they would say "No" to his most outrageous ideas. Kids, even BRILLIANT ones, are much easier to manipulate into agreement. Eeven if they think something is a bad idea. Critically, they often don't have the experience to know why something is a bad idea. This is what expertise MEANS in a field like engineering.
The man wanted "Yes Men" to help him achieve his vision, because he was convinced the regulations were simply a form of gatekeeping, instead of warnings written in the blood of so many pioneers who died making submersibles safe and reliable over the last century and a half.
I love how every analysis of Oceangate Titan just shows how it's even more reckless and dangerous than it looked before. This is the first mention I've seen of fire as a risk, and oh *no* a fire at depth sounds *terrifying.*
Thanks for doing this - I will admit to having to leave your previous video because I just could not get over the audio quality. Glad I could watch, I found very informative
Thanks. I appreciate the audio is now just ‘bad but louder’ but at least it’s audible without having to turn the volume to 11 now I guess.
I'm subbing in the hope that you will make a new Oceangate video, now that the inquiry has started. Please? The full interviews are on RUclips. Lochridge's testimony on day 2 was especially interesting.
I am a programmer by training. If, right after I finished my studies, I was given the opportunity to write the controller code on a tight schedule, I most likely would've done it even if it resulted in a heavy code, not properly debugged. That's the pressure that many young people entering the workforce are under in some sectors or companies.
Today, I would run a few miles from the thing upon first sight. We are dealing with people's lives. We need all of the time, even if it risks delaying the entire project.
That's, obviously, something which Stockton Rush gave very little though to. Blinded by economics, ethics were quickly affected as well.
your re-direct worked flawlessly
How did the make the manual pump that passes through the Titans hull that releases the massive frame safe for 12,5 00ft deep are 13,000ft ??Are was it like the widow&super glue&5inches of old carbon fibre'????
I note that at 16:52 a picture of the inside of oceangate shows the computer screens screwed into the wall of the pressure vessel. That doesn't seem to be a good idea if the screws are shape point ended. Just an observation from someone with no expertise in this area of engineering subsea vehicles
Your concluding remark raises a great point about survivorship bias.
may I suggest that you put the link to this video on the pinned comment under the original oceangate video, so that people can easily navigate to this version?
Thanks. Looks like I forgot to add it there.
Everything at Oceangate was done on the cheap
I've watched quite a number of videos about this tragedy. However, this was one of the more informative videos. I'll gladly watch it again.
On topic of David Shaw, I would argue that unlike almost everyone involved in Oceangate, he knew the risks and could make.
He was an experienced cave diver, using equipment he built/customised himself. On the extreme end of cave diving, there certainly is no redundancy or room for error. If there is a failure, you will die, and I am sure Dave Shaw knew that, and I am sure he had some idea how possible that was.
I wonder if there is a recording of the crunching sounds made during prior dives, like when it got to a certain depth and when it was heading back to the surface. There was one engineer/expert who rode in the sub and was like "that sound is no good, you really shouldn't be using this" and Rush was like "it's fine, chill."
Editing your video in blender is some next level psychopathy.
I really good video to study is the Alexmundo 2021 trip onboard the mothership. Titan had a problematic dive but reached the Titanic debris field. On the ascent the ballast failed to release, and they tried to ascend with thrusters. It had to be abandoned so they went into emergency mode and used a safety system to dump the whole ballast mechanism. What is interesting is a suspicion I had regarding the alleged transcript. I always got the feeling that a junior or intern was on the communication. In the video it clearly shows a very young lady typing in full sentences to the Titan with Stockton's wife occasionally overseeing it. My point is that if the Titan was descending too quickly this could offer a possible reason why it wasn't picked up or challenged much earlier. I am not suggesting that it was incompetence, but maybe an intern didn't feel confident to challenge Stockton on how he was piloting the Titan. Just a theory but one in my mind since the transcript appeared.
That was the trip where he suggested they sleep on the seabed (!!!?) wasn’t it?
There is another story, not verified but pretty well corroborated of him getting another sub stuck in the wreckage of the Andres Doria for an hour because he insisted on not handing the controls over to David Lochridge, who actually knew what he was doing.
i watched it once, i watched it twice, well maybe 3 times. I will watch it again
I think that the big lesson here is that we need more rich people making bespoke unreliable submersibles for rich people.
youtube didn't bother recommending this to me until i had finished the original once, which it had been recommending for days. guess i'll watch it again lol
i saw a marine biologist with 0 qualifications like yours who once rode in a submarine being invited to give 12-min news segments and presentations on mainstream TV.
you ARE a leading expert if you choose to present yourself as such! legit - like, go and email TV stations with your qualifications and this documentary you made as the 1 year anniversary comes up.
seeing the standard for some of the ‘experts’ speaking on the Titan so far and recently, especially to the general audience, you will absolutely get featured and be able to have a platform to share your thoughts.
have confidence!! just because you’re not a submarine engineer doesn’t mean you’re not an expert!
The whole reason I made this video in the first place is I was sick of news outlets reporting on rumours and making baseless assumptions.
People like me, and indeed subject matter experts, are rarely aired on mainstream news reports because we would have very little to say that didn’t sound either boring to a viewer or adversarial to a journalist (If you haven’t guessed, I have very little respect for most journalists)
Thanks to this, _Brittanic_ is the only one of the three sisters to never destroy a submarine.
i almost got whiplash from shaking my head so much at all the ignorant things stockton did making this sub. stockton rush was a walking, talking example of the dunning-kruger effect.
They blew a seal on the way down
I thought the investigation would have published some conclusions about the nature of the failure by now, seemed from the recovered wreckage that the carbon tube failed but would have expected some writeup of what they found by now
@1710 The screens is screwed into the hull??
Just want to add that Wired has since reported the supposed reasons hull scans were impossible (not that they absolve OceanGate even a little): "Later, OceanGate engineers found that Titan’s full-size hull was too thick for portable ultrasonic scanners, and a coating Spencer had applied to it would further block the signals. Rush decided that moving the entire sub to a lab for scanning would be too expensive, says a former employee who was familiar with Rush’s thinking."
Too expensive does not equal impossible. It equals bad idea that won't be checked.
"At some point, more safety is just waste" - a dead guy laying in smithereens at the bottom of the Atlantic.
I don't have any engineering experience, but I have a lot (and I mean a lot) of gaming experience and using a bluetooth joystick to control a manned vessel sounds insane to me.
Not only can the signal sometimes simply fail and not register the commands, those joysticks can develop a "drift" with use. That means that the control stick keeps sending movement commands even when in neutral. And the worst part is that the "drift" starts randomly during use, meaning that a joystick that was working perfectly fine moments ago can sudenly start pulling you to a side. In gamming that just means that your character will move randomly to a side, but in a risky environment having no control over the direction you are going even fore a moment can mean death.
The CEO says they have spares on board, but disconnecting the joystick and connecting a new one, with bluetooth detection software being temperamental at the best of days, sounds like an insane and unnecessary risk to me.
Thanks! You're right. The audio for this is great.
imagine hearing that most sub-sea accidents are caused by human error, and thinking "well i guess i don't need to thoroughly check the vessel's structural safety" instead of "wow i guess the standards of extensive safety inspections make it very rare for a dangerous vessel to actually be in use, i better make sure my sub passes all the 'don't accidentally kill people' tests."
like think a liiiiittle bit harder about the cause and effect behind that stat
I think Oceangates CEO had every right to test and explore new possibilities with the risk of his own life , not charging 250.000 and taking other people's life's after being warned by his own employees that the construction was a pile of crap a year before the accident. They haven't even contacted the families of the deceased to say sorry. There's stress limits under water that carbon fibre does not meet and they knew it. But yet again carbon is cheaper than titanium....I hope someone takes it to a legal point and shuts that company down before another innocent life is lost in vain
Hi I love you accent, were are you from?
Yorkshire. Honestly my accent is quite weak for the region I grew up in.
@@Alexander-the-ok Thx for telling me, I love you content.
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where*
@@Vesteria_your*
I was hoping we would have a preliminary report by now but I also understand the scale and scope of such a thing is not easy and cannot be rushed. I just hope we will get to hear the exact failure mode at some point. Also I think this video is how I found your channel which is awesome because you cover a lot of aerospace stuff which is my jam! Something about silver lining...
The way that epoxy was applied and the way the ring was seated, there is absolutely no way they can be certain there were no air bubbles inside the film of epoxy and even the thickness of the epoxy film is a big question mark unless precisely measured through external dimensions measurements, x-ray, ultrasound or some other method.
“when diving to extreme depths, you want a pressure vessel with uniform structure and should avoid composite materials such as carbon fiber”
Stockton (C)Rush(ed): bet
I worked for a European car company. And found myself to always the youngest in my level of training. Until after a 2 year hiatus. I became one of the oldest. It seems like safety standards in general Common Sense were thrown out the window. In place to save time and money.
Respect to all engineers who work on deep sea electronics. Either Horowitz or Hill did that work, can't recall, but I remember mentions in ART OF ELECTRONICS
I literally do not care. I will watch this another 100 times again.
My first reaction on hearing about this tragedy was to question the design being based on carbon-fibre composites...
Carbon fibre is extremely strong... IN TENSION. But why does that automatically mean it will be strong in compression? After all, a steel chain is very strong in one direction, but you wouldn't DREAM of using it to PUSH something!!
This basic concept made me wonder what the heck they were thinking choosing that over metal construction! WTF??