Sim Racing Setup Guide 03 - Toe, Camber & Castor Settings
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Welcome to part 3 of my sim racing setup guide. This video is all about toe, camber and castor settings and how they can be used to help maximise the tyres contact area with the road surface. This series of videos is intended to give beginners an overview of how to set up a car in any of the modern racing sims.
Throughout all 12 videos, I have been describing in detail the various aspects of car setup and how to bring all of them together to build a car setup.
The first 10 videos explain the ins and outs of each setup area, trying to explain the how and the why. Then, video 11 starts to bring everything together and talk through the process of building a setup. Finally, I’ve included video 12 as a case study of an Assetto Corsa setup that I created for the Audi R8 GT3.
If you want to skip to any specific sections of the Sim Racing Setup Guide you can do so using the following links:
1. Introduction - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
2. Tyres - Pressure and Temperature - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
3. Suspension I - Toe, Camber & Castor - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
4. Suspension II - Anti Roll - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
5. Suspension III - Springs - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
6. Suspension IV - Dampers - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
7. Ride Height - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
8. Brake Balance - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
9. Gear Ratios & Differential - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
10. Aerodynamics - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
11. Diagnosing a setup problem - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
12. Case Study - Audi R8 Case Study - • Sim Racing Setup Guide...
Playlist Link: • Sim Racing Setup Guide
Hopefully this guide will be useful for those looking to improve their understanding of setups in iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Rfactor, Project Cars, RaceRoom etc. If you have anything to add, please leave a comment, and if it’s helpful to others, then I’ll pin it to the top of the page.
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Игры
Hey guys, thanks for watching. I've tried to keep these videos fairly beginner friendly, but if you have any tricks, tips or additional comments to add, please leave them in the comments - I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will be able to benefit from the collective experience of the community.
You missed a big thing about castor/caster. That it is not only changes the self aligning and the fell of the steering but it changes the camber angel on turning the wheel. This is why it is useful to modifiy caster as well when you are finetuning your car to a circuit. When you add caster you can lower your camber angels, so it helps your straight line performance, but at turning the added caster will modify the camber angel, adding more nagative camber to the outside and lowering negative camber at the inside, that helps you finetuning the amount of tyre contacting the surface in a turn. It depends on how much caster should you use on the corner types, but it is a very useful setting for sim drivers and i think for real racing drivers as well. Maybe it is not that easy to understand and setup right for beginners, but we should talk about this. Also i don't know any about Assetto, because i am not playing with it, but i played a lot with Race 07, Race On, rFactor, rFactor 2, Automobilista and a bit with Project Cars and if i remember correctly all the games i mentioned here are allow you to change your castor/caster, because it is a very useful tool to setup your grip level for a circuit. So its nice to have these guides that you make, but i think some times you shouldn't skip over settings because one sim racing software is not supporting the change of it.
I think what your doing is fantastic. What I think a lot of people are looking for is the 'how' and not the 'what' part of these adjustments. For example, when looking at tire temp, what would tell you that the car needs more toe, or more - camber? And what part of telemetry would tell you how much of those adjustments need to be made. Also when making adjustments like this, what is the 'tell' that lets you know that you have adjusted something to much? Those are the tips that I am personally looking for. I really enjoy the video, but for me this is stuff I already know. I know what the adjustments are, I just dont know when to make them.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does any of you know of a tool to get back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb lost the login password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me.
I'm glad you decided to do this series, now i don't have to spin out every 5 bloody minutes
Eh don't rule it out... best way to learn ;) Thanks dude!
Finally someone who took time to explain about car setups. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate you work!
Thank you very much, hope the videos are helpful.
Yes, for sure they are helpful, plus you've got a perfect diction. I enjoy watching and learning from your videos.
I really like your video's Chris, but I did find your information on castor misleading, Castor is directly related to camber. It's true that it effects the "feeling" of steering in a real car, but, it's mostly used to allow for less camber for straight line and low radius corner grip, positive castor adds camber when turning, the more steering input the greater the degree of camber added mid corner, it's more apparent in ACC than most other sims and adding castor to reduce camber in front engine/rear drive cars can yield a great benefit on tracks suck as Spa and Monza where there are low radius high speed corners. I could elaborate further but I'm sure you know this already, just thought I'd clear it up just incase.
These videos are very well thought out Chris, I'm learning a lot and the way you're imparting the knowledge of the tech side of sim racing will definitely help many. Looking forward to the remaining parts.
Thanks Anthony . And thanks for commenting on all of the videos - it all helps to convince RUclips that things are going well!
Great video as always! Thank you very much for the tips Chris, really enjoying this series
Thanks Daniel, much appreciated dude.
Thank you for a well made and informative video. Never understood much about tuning but surprisingly it's quite easy to catch on! Glad it applies to Forza Horizon games quite well
Nicely laid out resource Chris ! Looking forward to the next batch :-)
Thanks Dale, much-appreciated dude - hope people are finding the videos useful.
Hey Chris,
first off many thanks for the great videos. Even though I know pretty well how to setup a car I enjoy watching these videos cause I could listen to your voice all day long and youre bringing up some high quality content. Thumbs up 👍🏼
Im also excited for the next parts and especially your R8 setup. Lets see whether you found all the tricks which AC has to offer to make a car fast and stable to drive :)
Thanks for the kind words shadowoff, they're very much appreciated. The R8 video is meant as a broad case study, so people can take any of the principles and apply them to other sims, so as far as I can tell, it's not too specific to ACs various quirks! I think it'll be the most controversial of the series by far :p
Brilliant Education on here! Thanks a lot! SUBSCRIBED!
Great series (and amazing quality videos as usual)! One interesting thing to note is that caster does have an effect on camber and hence handling (albeit fairly small). Caster angle affects camber gain while turning: the larger the caster angle, the more negative camber the outer wheel gets when turning the steering wheel (while the inner wheel gets positive camber; it's easiest to picture if you imagine unrealistically large caster angles but the effect is there for any angle). I don't think I've ever used this in a sim though since as you said it's not usually something you can adjust!
Hey man - thanks. You're absolutely right. There's a lot of strange interactions that go on with suspension geometry that can be exploited to varying extents, depending on the design, the car and the track. As you say, it's quite advanced for racing sims!
top notch stuff there... that was a big big big help.. thanks man..
Yes, that is very helpful more video like this make Crabby happy, Thank you Thumbd up!
Thanks Crabby!
This makes everything much easier to understand.
I once thought all these setup are miracally making the car more stable/oversteer, and now I just open a tyre app and maximize the grip
What app are you using?
Great stuff man, Thanks.
Thanks, Chris for this series of videos! What is the number of the video that you have the table with Solutions for Handling Issues? Best!
Great video.
Great vid. What are the next guides planned?
AWESOME AWESOME VIDEOS!!! Unfortunately no matter what i do, i get ZERO temperature in my front tires on the Lotus Evora GX.... any advice ?
thanks man you are the best
Hey the toe out in the rear tires for the FWD cars :P, a killer setup for qualy is always necessary ja :D
BTW, awesome series of videos, thanks a lot for this and your time for doing this!!!!!!
Thanks GeraArg - yeah man, I've not really focussed on FWD cars in these videos, since they're not really my thing. A bit of an oversight on my part!
@@ChrisHaye Can you tell me why im getting about 0.5sec faster laptimes with toe out on zandvoort and audi r8 gt3?
great videos... thank you
When should we look at tire temps to adjust camber? During cornering or on straights?
Hey Chris, thank you so much for the video! but there's a question when I adjust the camber, the Inside and middle temp are really close but the outside temp is like 10 degrees off... Is there any way to fix it or it is what it is? (the car is BMW M8 GTE in iracing)
Hello Chris, very nice video.
I need a help with a concept.
When you talk about tyre temperatures and its ideal temperature, wich value do you use as reference ? Is the average temperature of a tyre in a lap ? Or is the "instant" temp at a specifc time ?
For instance: a specific tyre temp at a corner.
know vids a bit old but have a question on the adjustment of camber do u do it based on temps or feel n laptime? like say over a quali lap think iv heard can jank up camber n over a race(i guess less to get more even wear) I know it's a balance but what should I be looking for when trying to dial setup n say I softwn rollbar adding in more roll so now I add more camber the temps or do I now feel out each setting n see which is faster or bit of both. edit n if temps where end of straight or just after corner (doing spa if want to say something specific)
Can someone please clarify sth for me? I couldn't have found an answer to my issue.
Basicly I'm learning to set up cars, based on this guide playlist and other forms of help (mainly 21 step guide from gtr2). I'm working currently on setting up ferrari 458 gt2 around monza GP circuit.
My problem is as follows:
Using the conception of uniform tyre temperature I've found correct camber for default ride height, it's around -1.3 front and -0.8 rear. Analyzed temperatures in MOTEC, outside temp is within 5 degrees celcious of inside temp, middle temp also is between those values (correct tyre pressure). Furthermore, using camber extravaganza app, the tyres were green in corners like parabolica, lesmos, ascari chickane (in 1st and 2nd chickane camber goes off but it's low speed so I don't feel like it's a problem). But after that I started finding optimal ride height, default is over 70 mm. But there is a problem, I'm already at minimal front camber value (cannot set lower negative than -1.2 deg). Lowering ride height throws my front camber out of window. What should I do? Go for lowest ride height advantages (more downforce, lower CG) thus violenting the camber or should I stay at higher ride height? I've even maxed front toe out, as increasing toe decreases camber.
Am I blind and missing sth obvious or what?
great edit Chris, tho i am a drifter, FD or street . bio ben just did a setting vid on FH4 and oddly it explains what the settings mean and the impact they have on your driving feedback . i helped me get the radbul derivable. and able to drift 1000ft lines with minimal correction or snap back . i did a thank you vid showing my first runs with the new knowledge. i will apply some of these tips as well to gain some control with the snap return . in project cars 1 and 2 . corsa has always been drift friendly .
here is that small vid. wimpy ears need not apply ruclips.net/video/c63fSFXpxfc/видео.html
Thanks GC - I had my first experience drifting in AC the other day. Took me 5 minutes to work out that the Supra had traction control set to 'on' by default *facepalm*
Was expecting Metal and got Metaaaal!
@@ChrisHaye yeah the supra isn't bad tho I found the lambo v12 swap works better in it .
@Chris Haye I know that everybody knows NEVER use Toe Out (negative toe) in the rear. However my Bentley in ACC with .04 Front Toe and -.1 Rear Toe is not only super responsive and stable in the corners (entry through exit). It also absolutely refuses to spin out. If the rear starts to break loose at all letting up on the throttle a smidge snaps it right back into grip.
I don’t get it. Everybody knows “as for using negative, toe out, in the rear don’t even think about it unless you love spinning out in every corner.” I have found the opposite to be true if done right.
Am I crazy?
Brilliant Chris. Now please tell me how to cut 8-9 sec. compared to the pro's:-)
first of all.. thank you so much for this video.. it helps alot.. i wish you read my comment cause i have a question.. why few car in assetto corsa do not have ( we can't set to ) negative toe.. i mean there is only zero and up to positive degree of toe.. and why few cars ( the baby benz for example ).. the toe value is -10 -20 -30..
**sorry for my bad english
and one more.. when setting this.. which panel we have to be more concern.. the allignment panel on the left? or the car status on the right?
absolute best
In the wrong order
@@ChrisHaye no they didn't LUL
Camber extravaganza app in assetto corsa
Thanks!
@Des You are the AC App king! Thanks for these tips my friend.
I've heard that the values the app is giving you are nonsense though
@@bobjkohneSenf source? I was going to download but am interested in these claims if true.
@@von... I've heard it from a couple of aliens in the league I'm running in. These guys are in the Top 10 of the ACC Hotlap leaderboards, so they know how to make a fast setup :D. But I haven't got a source to back it up. They said something like the app over emphazises the importance of the inside tires, because inside wheel cambers aren't as important in AC as in Real Life
Hey Chris, good series! Re-camber: do you recommend to do assymetrical, maybe even different camber angles for each tyre, or would you keep your hands off this? Talking gt3 cars. Cheers!
Hey Jannutz - personally, I've never been able to get it to work, though I can't say I've really given it a lot of time. Maybe I need to spend a few months only racing on ovals to see the light!
@@ChrisHaye FWIW, I found real-world camber to be track-dependent, For example more negative at Road Atlanta than Sebring. Particularly at Sebring years ago, with rough old concrete, less negative camber on the right side than left.
I am on ps4 Ac. Is the setup different than pc?
Castor is an oil or a bean. Caster is a wheel adjustment. I just start racing on R Factor 2 after about 5 years off. I have the IndyCar 2020 car mod. What I haven't figure out re the limits the program limits (somewhat severely) the amount of all these settings. For example, the limit of positive camber on the LF tire is 1 or 1.5 I want to try more, especially on ovals. Anyone know how to get around that limit?
1:18 Toe OUT causes oversteer? i thought Toe IN was more oversteer inducing as it loads the outside wheel which is pointing more towards the turn during steering.... the video is correct tho right? not just a slip up?
Why do some Books say: Toe-In on Front Axle is improving the turning in but is lowering the mid corner grip? Toe-Out is lowering the turning in but is improving the mid corner grip. ? Can anybody explain this to me?
I got taught, that Front Toe In is improving your straight line stability but is ending up in understeer in a corner. Front Toe-Out is bad for straight line driving but gives you a good turn in.
Currently watching all of these to tune up the kunos ae86, with just the tyre and alignment videos alone, there is a noticable improvement! I have a question though in reguards to evening out the tyre temps. I always seem to have cold FR and RR tyres, and reasonably cool FL but optimum RL tyre temps. Would it just be due to the track having many right hand turns that my right side isnt warming up as much?
This can be a bit of a pain in Assetto Corsa. It's not uncommon to find tracks where one side of the car is reluctant to heat up. You can run different pressures on the cooler side to try and compensate. However, it's worth noting the AC seems more concerned with pressures than temperatures, so if you're struggling, then concentrate on pressures first. It's easy to get too worried about what the tyres app is telling you, rather than what the car is!
@@ChrisHaye thanks for the reply! Would you happen to believe that if the community has data for the right temps, there is bound to be a sheet of data for optimum pressures for kunos tyre models?
The pressures are contained in the same document that I linked. For example, the first four lines are pressures, and the next four are min and max temps.
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).fl = 29
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).fr = 29
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).rl = 29
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).rr = 29
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).mintf = 65
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).maxtf = 80
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).mintr = 65
bmw_m3_e30_dtm.slicks soft dtm90s (s).maxtr = 80
Hope that helps!
@@ChrisHaye Ahhh, thanks a bunch that makes more sense now!
No worries - it's not the most intuitive thing in the world... and I think a few cars are missing the ideal pressure value now I look a little closer... but most seem to have it.
I'm early into your series and enjoying it so far, but you missed a critical aspect of caster: camber gain according to steering angle
You're welcome
What is castor?
Sorry, I do not agree with caster angle, i remember, (in rc cars), caster is useful to improve camber angle while stearing, you should change it in different tracks (dipends on corners)
A note for myself.... Inside hotter than outside too much negative camber, too much negative front toe in (toe out) oversteer.
Heh, yeah. A bit of variance across the tyre temps isn't a massive issue... but too much toe out and the front of the car literally over-steers!
Caster (mm) is not Caster Angle (deg) and both are almost never adjustable.
Unfortunately grip in Assetto Corsa values ideal pressure way more then ideal temperatures and you want to always prioritize tyre pressures and not worry too much about the temperatures. This is another good example how different the games can be..
Completely agree Atte.
Atte Nurmi would i just shuffle through different tyre pressures till i find the right one then?
@@vitaminzeth3742 download the proTyres app and it will tell you :)
@@von... Okay will do!
*Caster
Actually, nice series Chris!
Thanks Adam, 'castor' is the UK English spelling ;)
Ohh, haha, nice to know. In this case, sorry for that - I did not know the UK English spells it in this way. Today I have learnt something new then. :)
By the way, I think it is a really good idea to make series like this. So many new face in the sim world, who needs some help in many areas. I plan to make something similar for the Hungarian community anyway, but I will mainly want to focus in the racing situations and driving techniques. Because as I see now, so many suffers of how to drive the cars properly, or how to behave in different situations - which are pretty obvious for me after 10+ years, but not obvious some guys who just do simracing less than 1 or 2 years.
I was looking your videos for a few weeks now, and I have to say, your work is pretty impressive. So keep it up mate, you are definitely on the right path! ;) 👍 💪
Thankyou for the kind words Adam - please accept my apologies for not placing the correct accents on the 'A' and 'a'! I was expecting someone to point out the Castor/Caster thing, since we're pretty much the only country that spells it that way!
Holy shit u sound like 3kliksphilip