Why Mizner Can't Convince a Skeptic | Martial Geeks disscussion
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Third video on Mizner, I had a lot of thoughts on my mind about all of that stuff as a lot of new comments have been sparking engagement in an older Mizner video, sooo here's a new one!
LINK to the previous Video on the topic:
• Fake Martial Arts RANT...
#martialarts #combatsport #kungfu #taichi #skeptic #epistemology #logic #propositionallogic #skepticism #bullshido #martialgeeks
![PHILOSOPHY - Epistemology: New Responses to Skepticism [HD]](/img/1.gif)
So this is a video about a polemic position rather than Mizner himself. I don’t think Mizner is so interested in convincing skeptics; he has enough students/followers who pay good money to learn from him.
It's not polemic to say the sky is blue, it's generally accepted. In some cases the sky turns stormy gray, and all I need is a weather report to verify that somewhere the sky is gray without me having to go there. This is an artifact of our civilization, which operates on an endless supply of truth / science finding missions, and within civilization we have authorities to whom we entrust, until they are cast in doubt by a disinterested 3rd party, in a truth / science finding mission...
So on and so forth - you snake oil trolls know the deal
Mizner is not interested in convincing people cause he can't explain. Indeed he keeps it secret and teach only to his closest students. This isa business and a sect. And Mizner behave like a guru instead of sharing. He always talks about esoteric principles to fool and hide.
In 50 years of Aikido, I've never seen a single example of anything that would convince me of the existence of a supernatural chi/ki force - what I have seen is people with a great degree of fitness, skill, biomechanical understanding and a focus that enables them to do things which the 'ordinary" person might deem impossible without some of the aforementioned supernatural force.
An Internet option is always an avenger threat level. 😂
Name one difference and one similarity between Mizner and black widow: Difference: one of them can actually send you to Jesus. Similarity: You won't try to prove that they are fake 'cus both is stupid idea
Bič pliz
I'd say it helps to go and try, you never really know otherwise. However the issue with Mizner is that he would never allow you to engage him on your terms
i think its more that why should he. Why should he have to prove anything. What for. The meat heads on RUclips will always be the same and will never change. So really no point and literaly a waste of time engaging with people who have nothing better to do in life.
For integrity?
@@martialgeeks Um so deciding to accept peoplke on youtube challenges ... lol and wasting time in this way shows integrity? LOL this might be your idea of integrity but again neverhyone has theiur own ideas and opinions and there is no base line really.
@@richarddeerflame well it's you guys that keep saying you'll believe Mizner's fake once one of us skeptics goes there and topples Mizner...and yet now you speak against it LOL
@@martialgeeks you guys should go yourselves since you guys make the assumptions
I teach Tai Chi and practice it as a Martial Art. I try to keep up on how Tai Chi is marketed, lots of con-artist behavior gives the art a bad name in martial circles and I have to be aware of the negative perception. I saw your comment about Strickland's fight against Izzy and checked out your channel. Haven't seen much of this Mizner fellow before, but I guess he's a well known western TC practitioner. I see some folks defending him in the comments, so I wonder if they can answer my question.
Looks like he uses what my teacher called 'parlor tricks' to impress people who don't know anything about fighting, but that's sadly common in the marketing of the art, so it doesn't necessarily speak to his skill either way.
Is there any footage of him doing push hands with someone else who isn't totally new to Tai Chi and it's concepts?
I would believe he can probably do form well, but push hands is the art's method of pressure testing to see if a practitioner has internalized the principles to the point it doesn't require thought.
I wouldn't buy any metaphysical hocum about 'Chi', it's just superior body mechanics ingrained to reflex through repetition, nothing mystical about it.
And lastly, you can't learn Tai Chi, or any martial art, to true efficacy without some method of sparring. If his system doesn't have that, it can't be called an effective martial system as it doesn't prepare it's students to deal with an uncooperative opponent.
👏👏👏 amazing! I'd recomend for you to check out @indefenceofthetraditionalma channel; youtube.com/@indefenceofthetraditionalma?si=LPGKi1WyoqX_vyrk he's a great Tai Chi person and knows much more than I do, in any case Thanks for the comment🙏!
Yes, there is footage of him doing it to his own instructors that trained under him. And to your surprise, this creator made a short on it by "THEMARTIALMAN.".
I agree with most the comments here, skepticism should be tested in the fires of experience else the opinion has little value. I can also imagine that would be inconvenient for you and appreciate that's your primary reason not to engage rather than fear of being wrong and having to change a primary world-view. Another way one can tell from videos of genuine internal arts practicioners is to look at the students. All the bogus teachers who have been humiliated in the ring tend to have bovine, disembodied students. Genuine teachers attract genuine fighters - people who (at least to my perception) comfortably and confidently inhabit their bodies. My own teacher, in the same lineage as Mizner and with comparable skills, has a large cohort of boxers, judokas and others amongst his students. They wouldn't turn up if he wasn't doing something worth learning. They certainly wouldn't waste their precious training time on woo. So when you look at the videos and second guess the methods by the science that you know, also look to the crowd. Then again if one has not spent time in those sorts of environments and if maybe one does more heady stuff than body stuff, it's hard to develop the abilities to guage the types of people that one's watching.
I appreciate the comment, though I'm on the verge of quiting being nice and thought out about Mizner because way too many of his fans can't engage honestly and don't even listen what I say, but yours seems like a genuine comment, though I have to say I disagree with the "look to the people" part as that sounds like a classic appeal to authority fallacy, the ammount of people convinced of a proposition holds no weight on the truth of the proposition, especially if we mix it with the sunken cost fallacy and the cultish tendencies these schools and workshops display, but again for the record thanks for engaging honestly and I'll leave it at that✌
It's really funny actually . Just try it , there's not other way to check if it's true or not.
If I ever get a chance to try it without a paywall or any such nonsense I'll be more than happy to try, until then my position is valid and sound, a deafult "not convinced" position.
I have seen a youtuber who thought this man, Adam, was fake and he actually went to his workshop and apologized to his viewers that Adam's Tai Chi is real. I am not sure of the youtube channel name, but he is bald and has a bizzare W moustache.
Thank you for participating in that experiment, that was my friend Nick as part of an april fools series of videos we made, the point of the experiment was to show how even hme tai chi practitioners besides being gullible can't spot the difference between a fake and supposedly real practice, Nick has never been to a workshop and infact did a bad impression of those skills, so do you see a glaring issue?
I thought he did convince both Lyoto Machida and Fabricio Werdum?
Yes as a part of a documentary with money involved, they perhaps were "skeptical"of it, but that doesn't make them skeptics, regardless of the semantics there should be a reproducable experiment done that makes Mizner's abilities the most likely explaination, for instance consistently teaching and training with all kinds of martial arts gyms/dojos and over time consistently producing fighters that sucessfully replicate it in the ring and outside the ring, now that'd be world view altering!
Let the trolls cry harder 😂
You seem like a nice guy, but hey 'bro' shit you can talk. You could have said everything you had to say in the first 2-3 minutes, but you just go repeating yourself. I've never met Mizner but here's a suggestion why don't you try one of his workshops then you might give substance to all this talk.
If I ever get the chance I will, as for now I can answer people and ramble on about what I believe and why...though admitedly I talk alot 😆
@@martialgeeksBut you won't.
Look in your books and on your computer maybe you become a grandmaster 😂
What🤣 is that supposed to be some sort of insult?
These "tai chi" skills from Mizner are real even if the guy hides and behave like a little guru. He fools people with esoteric teachings.
But this is real. If you want logical explanations check School of Immobility and Movement.
Hi, I can't find your initial comment because youtube holds certain comments for review and it takes time for them to get approved so to answer the begining portion of a comment you left; I am NOT deleting any comments, infact the very opposite I try to let them all be here no matter how vile or nice
Okay good 👍. These skills come from concentration of visceral mass and special coordination obtsained by a postural exercise called "zhan zhuang". It is not complicated ans bring spectacular skills. But it is in 99,9% misunderstood and poorly practiced. Mizner got it. But this m***f***" use it without really teaching. He fools people. Nevertheless it is real.
it seems critics on youtube dont like how mizner conducts himself and they aim at his way of teaching and having to pay for seminar and and and.... I dont know i mean if you ask me it goes both ways. Who is gonna hold seminars in their own school for free? And why would they unless its for social responsability and even then, if a person attends seminar once a year .. but never gets taught by the teacher every single day... one cannot expect to gain skills the teacher has or to understand fully.
To learn one has to have a teacher for most of ones period of training. So i dont know, and its odd videos against Adam continue and for what ? it proves nothing neither does it make any of us agree with all of what is said by 3 okes against what adam does. We agree with small points in that there is no magical power number 1. Its all deep skills requireing years of training, understanding and even then not havingn a good teacher will not get one there (Adam certainly has skills).
So its wierd that videos keep coming when it really is a waste of time. I mean if you 3 would post videos of training and whatever your specialities are rather than for some odd reason want to tell the world that this person or that is. fake... It serves no purpose. People benefit more from your guys showing what you yourselves can do and how you train etc.
@richarddeerflame well the vast majority of my channel is training and very little of it is Mizner, that being said, truth matters! Bullshido has been ruining traditional arts for the longest time
@@martialgeeks i dont see any ruin at all. People still go choose what they want to train in and enjoy it. There seems to be no ruin. Point is there is a lot of Good TaijiChuan material , Mizner is just 1 although i dissagree with you that his is rubish, again my stance is that to Claim rubish from a person you need to meet the. person and train to settle ones "criticism and such" .
For example, anyone can look at demo of training in any chanel and see the demo partners helping to get the demo done well.... And claim that is rubish.... in the end proof is "It has to happen to me in a real environemntn to know if its crap or not" ., that is what i would say.... being sceptic is no issue at all many people are... But claiming ones scepticism to be fact is a bit far fetched. Fact comes from being taken out on the mat... And for that you need to be present. Not through youtube video.