Are you serious? As a medical student, pianist, and amateur composer, I feel the so-called "Heileger Dankesang" is perhaps the most incredible and important piece ever composed. If you have the patience, as I like to think Beethoven intended, after two hymn/prelude iterations in the piece, and in this video near minute 55, take it in as a whole and appreciate the shear majesty and mystery of the climax. It is a minute of music inexplicable, that continues to enrapture and enthrall generations
First time I heard this played on a classical music station is was introduced with the history and I was glad for it as it made the work all the more profound. There are a couple versions on YT. This is my favorite. ruclips.net/video/Gxmhpaq6I4E/видео.html
I have known and loved this movement for 40 years, and listened to it over 1,000 times, but I never understood the structure until I heard Rob describe it so clearly and so engagingly. In particular, the final return of the chorale theme is so different from the first two versions in ways that I didn't understand until Rob showed us.
The first time I heard this piece it was the Bartok Quartet, remember them? During this 3rd movement, you could hear harmonic feedback between the first and second violins. My life was changed forever after that. Vancouver 1993. There is no composer ever who was as generous as Beethoven - because "generosity* meant more than #'s or a huge repertoire. He taught us to love each other through music. What a gift.
Respond to this video... I've seen 132 in concert about five times, after a while this kind of work of art becomes part of your heart and your mind, it comes back to you when you need it most. During extremely stressful periods of my life, this will gently start to play in my head/heart/mind. Its like a ray of the divine that comes bursting through a cloud. For me it has never gotten stale or banal or old, it stays forever fresh and ageless.
Will any of the music that you presumably listen to be remembered in 200 years? 50? 5? You may object, saying, "So what? Live in the present." Enjoying pop music is fine, too; but my point is that, far from being the museum pieces that you think classical music is, such masterworks continue to stir the depths of the soul because of their inherent value, untouched by the passage of time, and independent of the fads of the moment. Over-extend yourself; don't settle only for the trivial.
What I was getting at was Beethoven's immeasurable contribution to music. Without the musical ideas that Beethoven gave the world, Arvo Part would not have had the ideas to have been able to compose this piece which, as you say, is mesmerising.
Fascinating - having played the quartet once, this makes the structure and thematic development so much clearer. Would love to hear the St. Lawrence quartet with better sound recording and/or in an acoustically kinder room; they really excelled even under such brutal conditions, and it's so difficult to maintain a good sound in this movement when being starved of bow by the agonising tempo!
It's really incredible for an uneducated ear like mine - which just listens to this incredible musicfrom a purely 'musical' point of view - that it's so, so complicated.
brilliant ear training with doing ! Maslow and the educational pyramid proponents would go to town how good this pedagogy is .... do, talk over, laugh in appreciation and master enjoying this Beethoven complexity... Great pacing becomes essential.... great educator Rob !
Dear Prof Kaplow; I deeply appreciate your work to make classical music and especially Beethoven accessible to laymen. Even more, to make his most contrapuntally complex works accessible, by addressing their very profundity. The more profound the idea, the more it subsumes the notes! Approaching this movement by moving from illness to health is a great idea. Any disagreements any "specialists" might have, should be eclipsed by your success in introducing people to this great music. I have been doing something similar for 50 years, and would only make two suggestions in good faith. 1. What was Beethoven's interest in the Lydian mode? Even Heinrich Schenker could not figure it out. The B natural to C motion in that scale implies the change to C major. This movement often seems as though it will resolve in C, but instead, goes to F, quite naturallly. for example mm 200-202. Try ending it in C on the piano. I believe he is employing the Lydian mode to treat C major and F major as a unity. 2. You referred to the section beginning at measure 168, marked, "Mit Iniigster Empfindung", as a fugue with counter-subject. I believe he has made a double-fugue of the two main ideas. The difference may seem precious, but in a double fugue, the two subjects are of equal weight. This has somethng to do with movig from illness to health, but I will leave it for your genius to figure out.
@orphyborphy I would imagine watching a Magnificent Sunset and having this guy talk through the whole thing, just stop talking. The meditation is impossible to achieve while your mouth/mind is running around. Stop running. Just listen. Listen with every bone-muscle-hair in your body and a magic door will open inside you to a world that sits beautifully on top of our world.
@ilaconix dunno what u mean. Notes are common property and were around long before LvB. Check out the Fratres theme (which you can find elsewhere on youtube). It has its own totally hermetic logic. The theme expands, then inverts and expands on the inversion. [[: Then does all that again a third lower :]] until on the seventh repeat it has explored all the modes and brings you home. Mesmerising.
@orphyborphy True. You bring up a valid point. I think since so many people have political bumper stickers, it couldn't hurt to have a musical message as well and just say "Go Listen to Opus 132." or "Got Bliss? Try Opus 111."
Thanx to B for the courage to go on-performance lax delicacy for me- lecturer is helpful, if annoying, B, as he said, presses the grapes that we may drink- comments by others (along w mine) reveal egotism, ignorance, shallowness, - we are a sad lot and few can offer what B offered-Rob at least offers insight this note is by Dave- not Cathy
@kmatson07 I know, I still agree with you, but what I mean is maybe introducing it like he does might introduce more people who might not otherwise listen to it. Then once they've heard him talk about it, maybe they'll want to listen to it again on its own. I've seen opera programs where something similar was attempted - I'm already devoted to this music, so I found it annoying, but I think it could be helpful at times.
@Nizlopi2 The more I study it, the more fascinating and confusing it is.. but it certainly doesn't get any simpler :P I'm so glad you can appreciate the complexity without 'training'. I think it's there for everyone, that it's a universal message. A lot of people just think classical music is elitist, or dry, I guess.
@kmatson07 I agree with you on the last sentence, but I don't think everybody is ready to hear it. I think maybe making it more approachable like this guy does is a good idea.
Présentation très vivante malheureusement elle manque l’essentiel : le rapport spécifique entre la forme musicale très bien mise en évidence ici et la Priere de reconnaissance pour la guérison que Beethoven adresse à son Dieu.
I like a saying, which is never mentioned by professionals, or folks who have something to gain by trauma (sick folks included) and that saying is 'Post Traumatic Growth'.
@@Grondorn your're totally right, Grondorn. For instance : i wouldn't call Mozart's piano concertos KV 466 in d-minor or KV 491 in c - minor or the "Introitus and Kyrie" of his requiem "light and fluffy" ! ....and this is from a Beethoven-enthusiast ! 😊
@@Grondorn ...and Mozart above all is often the target of such stereotypical simplifications ! Beethoven hold Mozart in high regard during his whole life, so should we normal mortals...! 😊👍
Interesting definitely, he shows enthusiasm (not too technical). Interesting comparison of Mozart to Beethoven, of how the tempo affects the music, of the organic analysis of Beethoven. To say ONLY Beethoven could ever have done something....an exaggeration? Also perhaps if someone is too ill maybe they can't compose, perhaps art can be more done in health remembering illness. Interesting saying that illness slows things down for someone (though this is conjecture with this piece).
I aint so sure. This is musical Lego played slow so folks don't latch on that it's musical Lego. What is the big fuss about? Arvo Part did this much better with Fratres.
My theory is that people start coughing because these narcissists suddenly have attention drawn away from them it's torture to have to focus on anything else.
My only disappointment with the organization of this lecture + performance is that he didn't (along with that taste of the previous movement leading into this one) give us at the end a little taste of the Alla Marcia that follows. I always perk up for the Alla Marcia.
I would really encourage this guy to stop talking. Just let the piece speak for itself, its doesn't need English to introduce it. It speaks from the cosmos.
I may be in the minority but I find this music boring. I much prefer the Razumovsky quartets. Art becomes pretentious if you need 58 minutes to explain 15 minutes of music.
Are you serious? As a medical student, pianist, and amateur composer, I feel the so-called "Heileger Dankesang" is perhaps the most incredible and important piece ever composed. If you have the patience, as I like to think Beethoven intended, after two hymn/prelude iterations in the piece, and in this video near minute 55, take it in as a whole and appreciate the shear majesty and mystery of the climax. It is a minute of music inexplicable, that continues to enrapture and enthrall generations
First time I heard this played on a classical music station is was introduced with the history and I was glad for it as it made the work all the more profound. There are a couple versions on YT. This is my favorite. ruclips.net/video/Gxmhpaq6I4E/видео.html
Soooo generous and special. What a gift for us living in the future.
I have known and loved this movement for 40 years, and listened to it over 1,000 times, but I never understood the structure until I heard Rob describe it so clearly and so engagingly. In particular, the final return of the chorale theme is so different from the first two versions in ways that I didn't understand until Rob showed us.
The first time I heard this piece it was the Bartok Quartet, remember them? During this 3rd movement, you could hear harmonic feedback between the first and second violins. My life was changed forever after that. Vancouver 1993. There is no composer ever who was as generous as Beethoven - because "generosity* meant more than #'s or a huge repertoire. He taught us to love each other through music. What a gift.
Respond to this video...
I've seen 132 in concert about five times, after a while this kind of work of art becomes part of your heart and your mind, it comes back to you when you need it most. During extremely stressful periods of my life, this will gently start to play in my head/heart/mind. Its like a ray of the divine that comes bursting through a cloud. For me it has never gotten stale or banal or old, it stays forever fresh and ageless.
This is RUclips at its best.
Will any of the music that you presumably listen to be remembered in 200 years? 50? 5? You may object, saying, "So what? Live in the present." Enjoying pop music is fine, too; but my point is that, far from being the museum pieces that you think classical music is, such masterworks continue to stir the depths of the soul because of their inherent value, untouched by the passage of time, and independent of the fads of the moment. Over-extend yourself; don't settle only for the trivial.
Getting to know Beethoven's genius at work keeps surprising us.. sublime Majesty unequaled
This guy is an amazing comunicator
This is just brilliant. We need more of that. Our society is filled with cultural junk food. This is just so nourishing.
Thank you!
This music is divine- so spiritual and affecting. The Presto is exquisite- sheer perfection. And mysterious..
Greater composer of all times.
What I was getting at was Beethoven's immeasurable contribution to music. Without the musical ideas that Beethoven gave the world, Arvo Part would not have had the ideas to have been able to compose this piece which, as you say, is mesmerising.
Same here, Mr. Mittledorf. Absolutely enchanting.
One other thing I forgot to say...
I wish he had related this slow movement more to the other parts of the quartet as that is how it is always heard.
37:32 That was one of the most unexpected realizations I ever had with any piece of music.
brilliant lecture!! thanks for this upload!
"Notes will help him who is in need."
Wonderful.
Fascinating - having played the quartet once, this makes the structure and thematic development so much clearer. Would love to hear the St. Lawrence quartet with better sound recording and/or in an acoustically kinder room; they really excelled even under such brutal conditions, and it's so difficult to maintain a good sound in this movement when being starved of bow by the agonising tempo!
It's really incredible for an uneducated ear like mine - which just listens to this incredible musicfrom a purely 'musical' point of view - that it's so, so complicated.
brilliant ear training with doing ! Maslow and the educational pyramid proponents would go to town how good this pedagogy is .... do, talk over, laugh in appreciation and master enjoying this Beethoven complexity... Great pacing becomes essential.... great educator Rob !
Dear Prof Kaplow; I deeply appreciate your work to make classical music and especially Beethoven accessible to laymen. Even more, to make his most contrapuntally complex works accessible, by addressing their very profundity. The more profound the idea, the more it subsumes the notes! Approaching this movement by moving from illness to health is a great idea. Any disagreements any "specialists" might have, should be eclipsed by your success in introducing people to this great music. I have been doing something similar for 50 years, and would only make two suggestions in good faith. 1. What was Beethoven's interest in the Lydian mode? Even Heinrich Schenker could not figure it out. The B natural to C motion in that scale implies the change to C major. This movement often seems as though it will resolve in C, but instead, goes to F, quite naturallly. for example mm 200-202. Try ending it in C on the piano. I believe he is employing the Lydian mode to treat C major and F major as a unity. 2. You referred to the section beginning at measure 168, marked, "Mit Iniigster Empfindung", as a fugue with counter-subject. I believe he has made a double-fugue of the two main ideas. The difference may seem precious, but in a double fugue, the two subjects are of equal weight. This has somethng to do with movig from illness to health, but I will leave it for your genius to figure out.
great delivery and discussion.
@orphyborphy
I would imagine watching a Magnificent Sunset and having this guy talk through the whole thing, just stop talking. The meditation is impossible to achieve while your mouth/mind is running around. Stop running. Just listen. Listen with every bone-muscle-hair in your body and a magic door will open inside you to a world that sits beautifully on top of our world.
@ilaconix dunno what u mean. Notes are common property and were around long before LvB. Check out the Fratres theme (which you can find elsewhere on youtube). It has its own totally hermetic logic. The theme expands, then inverts and expands on the inversion. [[: Then does all that again a third lower :]] until on the seventh repeat it has explored all the modes and brings you home. Mesmerising.
It's okay at best.
I forgot to say that I echo Josh Mittledorf's comments of two years ago.
Amazing lecture
You have to respect those pieces of late quartets , don't listen while you cook. It is not like elevator music .
@orphyborphy
True. You bring up a valid point. I think since so many people have political bumper stickers, it couldn't hurt to have a musical message as well and just say "Go Listen to Opus 132." or "Got Bliss? Try Opus 111."
Thanx to B for the courage to go on-performance lax delicacy for me- lecturer is helpful, if annoying, B, as he said, presses the grapes that we may drink- comments by others (along w mine) reveal egotism, ignorance, shallowness, - we are a sad lot and few can offer what B offered-Rob at least offers insight this note is by Dave- not Cathy
40:36 "...notes will help him who is in need.."
@kmatson07 I know, I still agree with you, but what I mean is maybe introducing it like he does might introduce more people who might not otherwise listen to it. Then once they've heard him talk about it, maybe they'll want to listen to it again on its own. I've seen opera programs where something similar was attempted - I'm already devoted to this music, so I found it annoying, but I think it could be helpful at times.
just wow
@Nizlopi2 The more I study it, the more fascinating and confusing it is.. but it certainly doesn't get any simpler :P I'm so glad you can appreciate the complexity without 'training'. I think it's there for everyone, that it's a universal message. A lot of people just think classical music is elitist, or dry, I guess.
Great presentation
@kmatson07 I agree with you on the last sentence, but I don't think everybody is ready to hear it. I think maybe making it more approachable like this guy does is a good idea.
Présentation très vivante malheureusement elle manque l’essentiel : le rapport spécifique entre la forme musicale très bien mise en évidence ici et la Priere de reconnaissance pour la guérison que Beethoven adresse à son Dieu.
I like a saying, which is never mentioned by professionals, or folks who have something to gain by trauma (sick folks included) and that saying is 'Post Traumatic Growth'.
I wish I could give three thumbs up (one thumb up isn't really sufficient)
@ilaconix
I'll agree with what you say about Beethoven; sounds like you need to spend more time with Mozart.
Mozart's music is light and fluffy; supersilious. Beethoven's music is a deep exposition of humanity.
Not the case even slightly, Both Mozart and Beethoven have many aspects of their compositions. Mozart composed a number of deep and profound works.
@@Grondorn your're totally right, Grondorn. For instance : i wouldn't call Mozart's piano concertos KV 466 in d-minor or KV 491 in c - minor or the "Introitus and Kyrie" of his requiem "light and fluffy" !
....and this is from a Beethoven-enthusiast ! 😊
@@gunterangel People rarely know what they are talking about in regards to classical composers, they just repeat some silly tropes they've heard.
@@Grondorn
...and Mozart above all is often the target of such stereotypical simplifications ! Beethoven hold Mozart in high regard during his whole life, so should we normal mortals...! 😊👍
Whomever is declaring poor comments needs to make their own.
"Heiliger Sangesang"
the. peAk. of. utube listening
Interesting definitely, he shows enthusiasm (not too technical). Interesting comparison of Mozart to Beethoven, of how the tempo affects the music, of the organic analysis of Beethoven.
To say ONLY Beethoven could ever have done something....an exaggeration? Also perhaps if someone is too ill maybe they can't compose, perhaps art can be more done in health remembering illness. Interesting saying that illness slows things down for someone (though this is conjecture with this piece).
Only Beethoven did...
Arvo Part would have had no musical content to work with had Beethoven not have written what he wrote!
wonderful lecture- lecturer somehow annoying- this note not by cathy
I aint so sure. This is musical Lego played slow so folks don't latch on that it's musical Lego. What is the big fuss about? Arvo Part did this much better with Fratres.
Ummmmmno
STOP. COUGHING.
other than that, a great lecture!
My theory is that people start coughing because these narcissists suddenly have attention drawn away from them it's torture to have to focus on anything else.
☺️
Very,very nice.
I would, if I could meet him, slap the camera person silly. STOP TRYING TO PAN EACH MOTION!!!!!!
My only disappointment with the organization of this lecture + performance is that he didn't (along with that taste of the previous movement leading into this one) give us at the end a little taste of the Alla Marcia that follows. I always perk up for the Alla Marcia.
I would really encourage this guy to stop talking. Just let the piece speak for itself, its doesn't need English to introduce it. It speaks from the cosmos.
Kevin Matson it’s a LECTURE
@kmatson07 Hahaha I love that idea! :P
Darwinian durations.
God I wish he'd STOP MOVING
....and groping his nose ! 🙄
But his musical analysis is very good and illuminating indeed 👍 ,
only his over-enthusiasm is a little bit annoying !
I may be in the minority but I find this music boring. I much prefer the Razumovsky quartets. Art becomes pretentious if you need 58 minutes to explain 15 minutes of music.