What makes a Preamp pedal different from a Distortion pedal? Which features make a pedal more suitable to run directly into a power amp? Colin examines the Gehenna from Lichtlaerm Audio to find out. Get your Gehenna Distortion/Preamp Pedal: lichtlaermaudio.com/shop/gehenna This video contains paid promotion from Lichtlaerm Audio More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure #lichtlaerm #gehenna #preamplifier Timecodes: 00:00 - Introduction 00:32 - What is a Preamp? 01:13 - The purpose of a Power Amp 01:41 - How Distortion Pedals are Used 02:06 - What is an FX Loop? 02:26 - How Preamp Pedals are Used 02:51 - Features that make an Effective Preamp Pedal 04:38 - Distortion vs Preamp Sound Comparison 05:26 - More about the Gehenna & Signal Chain 06:30 - Full Mix Sound Example 08:20 - Isolated Guitar (Distortion Pedal) 09:22 - Isolated Guitar (Preamp Pedal) 10:12 - Conclusion More from CSGuitars: Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars Join CSGuitars Discord - discord.gg/csguitars Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store Website - www.csguitars.co.uk Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk ____________________________________________________________________ *Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
Thanks for both the demo and the educational content! For clarification: we named & market this mainly as a distortion because in stock (all EQ-pots at center position) it still expects the slight low mid scoop a classic passive amplifier tone-stack provides to sound like you're used to hear from an actual amp. You can easily dial in the same effect by pulling back the low-mids as Colin did here - great job
The thing that made this distinction finally click for me was when I finally learned that when you set all the EQ knobs to noon on any given amp, the signal is NOT passed through unchanged, contrary to what I would intuitively expect. I don't feel like I see this mentioned by anyone, so maybe everyone else just assumes it, but it was incredibly helpful for me to learn that all amps have their own unique default tone shaping when all knobs are at noon - mostly boosting treble frequencies a lot, but usually cutting mids a bit too - and the EQ knobs just adjust that shaping. That's why most tone-shaping pedals sound really dark when going into the power amp, because they're designed with the assumption that they're going to be going into an amp's tone stack where the highs will be boosted. That's also why the simple low-pass tone control is so ubiquitous while controls to cut other frequencies are more rare: because highs are typically so heavily boosted by amps that the upper harmonics that are added by the clipping in pedals can sometimes make for too much treble, but lows and mids are less likely to get out of control because they're typically not boosted as much if at all by amps. The Tone Stack Calculator app made by Duncan amps has been incredibly helpful for me in learning about all this stuff
Jim Lill's great Tested video on tone in guitar amps goes into detail on this kind of thing, and how much of each major amp maker's "signature tone" actually just comes from their default settings and the order of things like EQ and distortion in their signal chains. After messing around with some tone stack calculators and experimenting, he's able to reproduce those signature tones to an impressive degree with some pedals and simple circuitry.
Hopefully this isn't a stupid question: Could you compensate for the lack of tone shaping ability of a given distortion pedial, like that Rat you showed, by adding an EQ pedal in order to completely replace the pre-amp section?
The key insight is that Marshall and Fender tone stacks inherently scoop mids. All tone controls at noon is not neutral at all: it's a mid scoop. If you want to know those amps sounds like without a tone stack: set bass and treble to zero and mids to full. So, for a distortion pedal to be considered as a preamp pedal, you need to be able to scoop mids out or it will sound muddy. The degree of mid scoop determines if you're AC/DC or Metallica, but they all have a mid scoop. Alternatively, place a simple EQ pedal after your distortion to do the scooping.
I like to play guitar and exploring the scientific idea from the guitar and sounds. thanks for your channels. best regards from Indonesia. assalamu'alaikum..
I have the Dirty Little Secret from Catalinbread, what a pedal!!! Sounds and response just like a marshall, paired with two cabs (hiwatt maxwatt 412 and laney 412 both with røde N4) the sounds is so raw and powerfull!!!
I was going to comment the exact same thing: the control knobs make you feel like you have an extra preamp in your signal chain! It's a little dark-sounding even when run into an amp's input, but I'm now wondering whether it might turn another amp into a sort-of plexi by plugging into the FX loop return jack...
@@concretebadger well, i use it on my pedaboard as my main preamp pushed with a treble booster an then to an stereo ir loader. BUT when i use it as preamp in the fx loop on an amp (in case the PA is broken or bad) the result are the same, a tiny raw beast miab pedal.
The DLS is quite simply the best MIAB out there in my opinion. I've had and tried lots of them, but they don't hold a candle to the DLS. I have the Red and Deluxe variants, and they're amazing. I know I'm way late to this conversation, but if you haven't run your DLS at 18v, you're missing out. Do it and you'll love the DLS even more!
I remember reading how the Metal Zone was best through the effects return. Unfortunately i had sold the amp i had with an effects loop (Laney AOR 30) and kept my Sound City MkIV which doesnt have one. I love my SC its not unloved because it doesnt have an effects loop - it is integral to my bass rig! I now have a DSL1 and have been tempted to try the trick. Would the Joyo American or Liverpool pedals do the same trick?
I remember trying that trick with the Metal zone when people started talking about it again recently. In my opinion, it sounds better in front of my Joyo 5150 clone and Marshall clone than as a preamp but others seem to disagree. Also, the Joyo American and Liverpool pedals have cab sims built into them so it probably wouldn't work as well but it's worth a try anyway. You would be surprised with what pedals sound good as preamps. I've had good luck with fuzzes.
As I remember from watching your TATA a few years back, presence controls work on signals in the power amp section. Since this is a distortion pedal/pre-amp, how does it control presence?
The mechanics of an amplifier's Presence control has little to do with what's happening here - but the same frequency range will be modified. I haven't put this pedal on the scope to know for sure, but my hypothesis would be that as both the 'depth' and 'presence' are passive controls, they are probably just high and low pass filters. 'Depth' probably attenuates everything under 90Hz or so, giving it control over the low string chugging, while 'Presence' likely attenuates everything over 4KHz which are often referred to as Presence frequencies if you talk about EQ to an audio engineer.
What Colin said! Presence and depth are passive filters (a so called James EQ in this case, which is similar to the tone stack in old Orange/Matamp amps, also known as passive Baxandall) and as such only work subtractive - it is indeed different from presence and depth in an amp in theory: these feed back an inverted phase signal in the determined frequency range to subtract frequencies (presence and depth in an amp always take away signal as well, not adding - even though it may feel like it). So it’s an approach at mimicking the behavior of a tube amp in the solid state realm. They basically add just enough extra range to actually make it work both as a distortion and as a preamp where other boxes tend to sound muffled in one or harsh in another application 🙂
HOW DO I RUN REVERB AND DELAY WITH THE LOOP TAKEN UP? I’m confused on the actual chain. Does guitar plug into front or into preamp pedal in the return?
If every distoryion pedal is a preamp, why can i not use my evh 5150iiis el34 100 watt head fx loop return with just any distortion pedal? I know this might sound redundant but i tried using my mxr 5150 pedal into my fx loop return. Got 0 signal whatsoever. Is this a symptom of thevtype of fx loop or is there something else at play?
A distortion is a preamp. How its implemented is the reason behind all of this. A preamp takes an incoming signal and sends it through a gain stage. After that, it goes to a power amp. Distortion/Overdrive is achieved by increasing gain to a point where it overpowers the input and starts to break up. A guitar preamp is the only type preamp where you try to get it to distort on purpose. In any other type of application, the last thing you want is to have the signal distort. A preamp in the form of a distortion pedal wants to distort the signal. That's what its designed for. They typically don't work well for clean tones. A separate gives you more options. Gain is always put on the input of a component and has the ability to overdrive the signal if pushed too hard. Volume controls are always on the output of a component and can't distort the signal. So, for example, if you have a preamp pedal, you can set the gain to get a nice clean tone, then send the signal to your distortion pedal. Once the gain is set on your preamp pedal, you control the output with the volume knob. As long as you don't touch the gain on your preamp, you'll always get a clean signal from it no matter what you set the volume to. Now, the preamp in your distortion pedal can focus on what it does best. Distorting the signal. Once your gain is set on your distortion pedal to whatever sounds best, using the volume control on the preamp will won't alter gain on either pedal. A practical application for a setup like this, is when you have to play at low volumes, such as your apartment. You can have a distortion tone that sounds great without having to worry about the amp being too loud because your preamp is being used to control volume. I'm not very good at explaining things so if there's something in my post you don't understand, just post and I'll try to clarify the issue. Also, this is a huge topic, so there's no way I can cover all the details. Just keep in mind that there are other variables at play beyond what I put in this post.
Moore do preamp pedals of famous amps like dual rectifier and brown eye. It would be interesting to see how accurate they are to the actual amp by just running them into a power amp.
I use the Mooer Preamp Live into a ENGL 930 60 power amp. I did not care a lot for the presets of all their mini Preamp pedals, but I did love to tone capture my own Preamp setup including boost / compressor in front and / or EQ after that preamp. So for me personally the Mooer mini preamp pedals don't sound that good.
I've done the "MT-2 trick" of putting a distortion pedal into the FX return of an amp, bypassing the internal preamp of the amp and using the pedal as a preamp before, but I've always wondered if that is messing up the internal preamp of my amp. After all, running a power amp without a load isn't good for the amp, is doing something similar to the preamp also bad and will it cause long-term damage?
The difference here is when you bypass the preamp by going into the FX Return, the preamp doesn't receive a signal - it's just the same as if the guitar was plugged into the input but wasn't being played. The preamp doesn't know the difference, it's just sitting there safely waiting for a signal that will never come. A power amp without a load will be damaged due to not seeing the correct impedance as it tries to amplify a signal. Connecting a speaker load is super important while operating the amplifier because valves which are amplifying the signal and the transformer beyond them need to see the correct speaker impedance to prevent the voltages and currents rising to a point where they cause damage. TL;DR - preamps won't be damaged if you are running directly into the Power amp.
My TATA: how much noise is normal? I recently swapped to a split coil away from humbuckers. And the noise was awful when holding notes. So i went on a quest to reduce noise and reduce noise. Until now, I've lost all concept of the normal amount of noise when distorting a guitar.
Interesting. Take the Blackstar Artist series of amps( I have the 15) . They say the “clean channel” is literally volume and tone straight to the power amp with no preamp . They say it’s like “old school” amps. Should I therefore be using a preamp pedal for that oomph? Just distortion/ od pedals sound like they could use some help in most frequencies . I find I use my “gain channel”( which doesn’t have much ) on the edge of breakup with said pedals and it’s pretty good. Should I go lower than edge of breakup?
That jam sounds amazing, but mixing guitars, amps, and speaker cabinets(?) means it's really hard to tell what the actual difference is between the two use cases. No ending clip of 11 boost pedals hooked together feeding back like mad? Missed opportunity. The playing in this episode was fantastic!
Low mids are the few frequencies traditional tone stacks have scooped. When you dial the eq knobs of a Fender to noon, instead of a relatively flat line, you get a V shape with a slight boost at the treble frequencies. When connected to an effects return, the sound is flat, so the eq knobs of the pedal react as if it was the preamp of the amp itself, with the added low mid since it isn't as scooped.
Exactly what Ken said: classic passive amp tone stacks usually cut a lot of low mid content around 400hz, which has to be taken into consideration when designing a pedal to go in front of it!
It's a modified 2001 Gibson from their Gothic line - you can see a video playlist about its transformation here: Gibson Gothic Flying V: ruclips.net/p/PLaM1FGKAH5TkcpKcAyK8o9H0NP1nBaoLS
Thanks a lot for this very content as I have a distortion pedal with an built in EQ as well and luckily, I have a combo amp with am FX loop. It gave me some ideas as to how I approach making my tone with it.
All the tones in that song sound good on their own, but the relative volumes between the instruments still just are kind of all over the place. If ya still rocking those JBLs (if I remember correctly), I kinda would recomend to get something better. Something with 8inch woofers. But still, this is the closest to a really good mix I have heard on this channel (if not counting the few that I mixed 😛) so congraz for that!
I have a Westminster Effects 2716 (Mesa Dual Rec in a box) and fully expected it to sound better running into the “power amp in” of my Line 6 catalyst. To my surprise, I couldn’t get it to sound very nice this way, but then ran it into the “Clean” model with all knobs at noon and it sounds absolutely amazing. I guess it just depends on your gear. Great demo and education!
I expressed interest in covering NuTube tech in a TATA to Vox a number of years ago, as they seem to be the only ones even attempting to implement the technology (perhaps due to the fact that Korg owns Vox and don't want to license outside of that arrangement?) but nothing ever came from it. Unfortunately the technology isn't being used widely enough to be anything other than a curiosity, which if result of too closely guarded exclusivity is a real shame. It might also be that the application is limited and traditional valves are cheaper to implement.
Aside from using the Preamp pedal>Effects Return example, you could also use the Effects Send>IR loader if you want to go direct to FOH/PA system. When I learned the rules of the Preamp and Power Amp in an amp, several possibilities opened up for me. Of course, traditionally minded people would say I'm using it wrong, but they are the same people who said I sounded great when they didn't know what I was doing.
But aren't true preamp pedals waaay louder than our dirt boxes? I think Dan and Mick explained it with Simon Kingsley, who makes "true" preamp pedals that even can be switched to "pedal operation" or "preamp operation". Anyway, nice video and a good day to you sir 😊
Yes, I mentioned that the Gehenna upscales the voltage internally so that it can reach far more level than a standard 9V distortion pedal. That is quite important to driving the power amp at the expected level.
Exactly - the output of a Preamp (or preamp pedal) is usually higher due to the high headroom which is defined by the operating voltage of the circuit: standard dirt boxes run at 9V which can be too weak to properly drive a power amp. For the Gehenna we scaled this up to 36V which is quite a lot for a pedal. This has also to be taken into consideration when running into the amp input: it can push the tubes of a clean channel into saturation in addition to its own overdrive, which can be too much - especially as clean channels lack the filtering of distortion channels that keep them tight - I’d recommend starting out with low volume when running into the input and increasing from there 🙂
What makes a Preamp pedal different from a Distortion pedal? Which features make a pedal more suitable to run directly into a power amp? Colin examines the Gehenna from Lichtlaerm Audio to find out.
Get your Gehenna Distortion/Preamp Pedal: lichtlaermaudio.com/shop/gehenna
This video contains paid promotion from Lichtlaerm Audio
More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure
#lichtlaerm #gehenna #preamplifier
Timecodes:
00:00 - Introduction
00:32 - What is a Preamp?
01:13 - The purpose of a Power Amp
01:41 - How Distortion Pedals are Used
02:06 - What is an FX Loop?
02:26 - How Preamp Pedals are Used
02:51 - Features that make an Effective Preamp Pedal
04:38 - Distortion vs Preamp Sound Comparison
05:26 - More about the Gehenna & Signal Chain
06:30 - Full Mix Sound Example
08:20 - Isolated Guitar (Distortion Pedal)
09:22 - Isolated Guitar (Preamp Pedal)
10:12 - Conclusion
More from CSGuitars:
Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars
Join CSGuitars Discord - discord.gg/csguitars
Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store
Website - www.csguitars.co.uk
Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________
*Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
Thanks for both the demo and the educational content! For clarification: we named & market this mainly as a distortion because in stock (all EQ-pots at center position) it still expects the slight low mid scoop a classic passive amplifier tone-stack provides to sound like you're used to hear from an actual amp. You can easily dial in the same effect by pulling back the low-mids as Colin did here - great job
The thing that made this distinction finally click for me was when I finally learned that when you set all the EQ knobs to noon on any given amp, the signal is NOT passed through unchanged, contrary to what I would intuitively expect. I don't feel like I see this mentioned by anyone, so maybe everyone else just assumes it, but it was incredibly helpful for me to learn that all amps have their own unique default tone shaping when all knobs are at noon - mostly boosting treble frequencies a lot, but usually cutting mids a bit too - and the EQ knobs just adjust that shaping.
That's why most tone-shaping pedals sound really dark when going into the power amp, because they're designed with the assumption that they're going to be going into an amp's tone stack where the highs will be boosted. That's also why the simple low-pass tone control is so ubiquitous while controls to cut other frequencies are more rare: because highs are typically so heavily boosted by amps that the upper harmonics that are added by the clipping in pedals can sometimes make for too much treble, but lows and mids are less likely to get out of control because they're typically not boosted as much if at all by amps.
The Tone Stack Calculator app made by Duncan amps has been incredibly helpful for me in learning about all this stuff
I just learned this right now
Bloody he'll. Been playing 25 years and never knew.....
Jim Lill's great Tested video on tone in guitar amps goes into detail on this kind of thing, and how much of each major amp maker's "signature tone" actually just comes from their default settings and the order of things like EQ and distortion in their signal chains.
After messing around with some tone stack calculators and experimenting, he's able to reproduce those signature tones to an impressive degree with some pedals and simple circuitry.
@@YoJimbo0321 haha, yes! That's where I learned that! That video was amazing
Any video that starts with an Orwell quote is aces in my book lol
This is one of your best videos mate. I genuinely feel I've learned something. Thanks.
Thumbs up already 30 seconds in. I've never been certain what a preamp is. Very curious to hear more 👍
I have to say, I love all your videos, but this right here? I think it might be my favorite so far.
Interesting thought considering the terms have been interchangeable since someone realized they can combine a metal zone with an IR
Or with a MT-2 to power amp lol, made it quite usable when more people did it
Hopefully this isn't a stupid question: Could you compensate for the lack of tone shaping ability of a given distortion pedial, like that Rat you showed, by adding an EQ pedal in order to completely replace the pre-amp section?
The key insight is that Marshall and Fender tone stacks inherently scoop mids. All tone controls at noon is not neutral at all: it's a mid scoop. If you want to know those amps sounds like without a tone stack: set bass and treble to zero and mids to full. So, for a distortion pedal to be considered as a preamp pedal, you need to be able to scoop mids out or it will sound muddy. The degree of mid scoop determines if you're AC/DC or Metallica, but they all have a mid scoop. Alternatively, place a simple EQ pedal after your distortion to do the scooping.
I like to play guitar and exploring the scientific idea from the guitar and sounds.
thanks for your channels. best regards from Indonesia.
assalamu'alaikum..
Great explanations as always - appreciate the graphics 👍👍
Bruh I’ve been following you for years and your production quality has STEPPED UP.
I'd like to be the person who names guitar pedals - I don't think that Sparkly Godzilla has been taken yet.
I have the Lichtlaerm Rat, it's dope!
that's great to hear! It's one that we're really proud of over here!
I just got mine, I can't believe how great it is. It's even motivated me to switch around some of my speakers, and backs on my cabinet.
Two things dude... You have a sick tone and you are gettin' better in improv...
I've always thought about how I could do this with my own amp. Cheers Colin
Now do the Swedish Chainsaw! Useless in front of an amp, amazing into the return loop!
Thank you. Very informative + looks great and sounds great too. Quality stuff/
Everything is a distortion pedal if you just believe
Nothing compares to the distorted tones of the ADA-mp1, Marshall JMP-1 or Triaxis.
Why did it take us so many years to figure out the MT-2 is WAY better as a pre-amp??
I have the Dirty Little Secret from Catalinbread, what a pedal!!! Sounds and response just like a marshall, paired with two cabs (hiwatt maxwatt 412 and laney 412 both with røde N4) the sounds is so raw and powerfull!!!
I was going to comment the exact same thing: the control knobs make you feel like you have an extra preamp in your signal chain! It's a little dark-sounding even when run into an amp's input, but I'm now wondering whether it might turn another amp into a sort-of plexi by plugging into the FX loop return jack...
@@concretebadger well, i use it on my pedaboard as my main preamp pushed with a treble booster an then to an stereo ir loader. BUT when i use it as preamp in the fx loop on an amp (in case the PA is broken or bad) the result are the same, a tiny raw beast miab pedal.
The DLS is quite simply the best MIAB out there in my opinion. I've had and tried lots of them, but they don't hold a candle to the DLS. I have the Red and Deluxe variants, and they're amazing.
I know I'm way late to this conversation, but if you haven't run your DLS at 18v, you're missing out. Do it and you'll love the DLS even more!
By the i kust sub!!!the question is kan it GRUNGE!!!!!
Can I also just put this straight into my Daw, and use two notes power amp sim and Dyna IR?
Oh zose Chermans!
Dschörmän engineering ❤️
best explanation on the youtube
I remember reading how the Metal Zone was best through the effects return. Unfortunately i had sold the amp i had with an effects loop (Laney AOR 30) and kept my Sound City MkIV which doesnt have one. I love my SC its not unloved because it doesnt have an effects loop - it is integral to my bass rig!
I now have a DSL1 and have been tempted to try the trick. Would the Joyo American or Liverpool pedals do the same trick?
I remember trying that trick with the Metal zone when people started talking about it again recently. In my opinion, it sounds better in front of my Joyo 5150 clone and Marshall clone than as a preamp but others seem to disagree.
Also, the Joyo American and Liverpool pedals have cab sims built into them so it probably wouldn't work as well but it's worth a try anyway. You would be surprised with what pedals sound good as preamps. I've had good luck with fuzzes.
As I remember from watching your TATA a few years back, presence controls work on signals in the power amp section. Since this is a distortion pedal/pre-amp, how does it control presence?
The mechanics of an amplifier's Presence control has little to do with what's happening here - but the same frequency range will be modified.
I haven't put this pedal on the scope to know for sure, but my hypothesis would be that as both the 'depth' and 'presence' are passive controls, they are probably just high and low pass filters. 'Depth' probably attenuates everything under 90Hz or so, giving it control over the low string chugging, while 'Presence' likely attenuates everything over 4KHz which are often referred to as Presence frequencies if you talk about EQ to an audio engineer.
What Colin said! Presence and depth are passive filters (a so called James EQ in this case, which is similar to the tone stack in old Orange/Matamp amps, also known as passive Baxandall) and as such only work subtractive - it is indeed different from presence and depth in an amp in theory: these feed back an inverted phase signal in the determined frequency range to subtract frequencies (presence and depth in an amp always take away signal as well, not adding - even though it may feel like it).
So it’s an approach at mimicking the behavior of a tube amp in the solid state realm. They basically add just enough extra range to actually make it work both as a distortion and as a preamp where other boxes tend to sound muffled in one or harsh in another application 🙂
HOW DO I RUN REVERB AND DELAY WITH THE LOOP TAKEN UP? I’m confused on the actual chain. Does guitar plug into front or into preamp pedal in the return?
Guitar > preamp pedal > delay > reverb > Amp Return
The full track was great! 🤘
What happened to your hair bro? Last time I watched your channel was before pandemic. Good to stumble with your channel again.
My hair was lost due to a witches curse.
If every distoryion pedal is a preamp, why can i not use my evh 5150iiis el34 100 watt head fx loop return with just any distortion pedal? I know this might sound redundant but i tried using my mxr 5150 pedal into my fx loop return. Got 0 signal whatsoever. Is this a symptom of thevtype of fx loop or is there something else at play?
A distortion is a preamp. How its implemented is the reason behind all of this. A preamp takes an incoming signal and sends it through a gain stage. After that, it goes to a power amp. Distortion/Overdrive is achieved by increasing gain to a point where it overpowers the input and starts to break up. A guitar preamp is the only type preamp where you try to get it to distort on purpose. In any other type of application, the last thing you want is to have the signal distort.
A preamp in the form of a distortion pedal wants to distort the signal. That's what its designed for. They typically don't work well for clean tones. A separate gives you more options. Gain is always put on the input of a component and has the ability to overdrive the signal if pushed too hard. Volume controls are always on the output of a component and can't distort the signal. So, for example, if you have a preamp pedal, you can set the gain to get a nice clean tone, then send the signal to your distortion pedal. Once the gain is set on your preamp pedal, you control the output with the volume knob. As long as you don't touch the gain on your preamp, you'll always get a clean signal from it no matter what you set the volume to. Now, the preamp in your distortion pedal can focus on what it does best. Distorting the signal. Once your gain is set on your distortion pedal to whatever sounds best, using the volume control on the preamp will won't alter gain on either pedal.
A practical application for a setup like this, is when you have to play at low volumes, such as your apartment. You can have a distortion tone that sounds great without having to worry about the amp being too loud because your preamp is being used to control volume.
I'm not very good at explaining things so if there's something in my post you don't understand, just post and I'll try to clarify the issue. Also, this is a huge topic, so there's no way I can cover all the details. Just keep in mind that there are other variables at play beyond what I put in this post.
Moore do preamp pedals of famous amps like dual rectifier and brown eye. It would be interesting to see how accurate they are to the actual amp by just running them into a power amp.
I use the Mooer Preamp Live into a ENGL 930 60 power amp. I did not care a lot for the presets of all their mini Preamp pedals, but I did love to tone capture my own Preamp setup including boost / compressor in front and / or EQ after that preamp.
So for me personally the Mooer mini preamp pedals don't sound that good.
I've done the "MT-2 trick" of putting a distortion pedal into the FX return of an amp, bypassing the internal preamp of the amp and using the pedal as a preamp before, but I've always wondered if that is messing up the internal preamp of my amp. After all, running a power amp without a load isn't good for the amp, is doing something similar to the preamp also bad and will it cause long-term damage?
The difference here is when you bypass the preamp by going into the FX Return, the preamp doesn't receive a signal - it's just the same as if the guitar was plugged into the input but wasn't being played. The preamp doesn't know the difference, it's just sitting there safely waiting for a signal that will never come.
A power amp without a load will be damaged due to not seeing the correct impedance as it tries to amplify a signal. Connecting a speaker load is super important while operating the amplifier because valves which are amplifying the signal and the transformer beyond them need to see the correct speaker impedance to prevent the voltages and currents rising to a point where they cause damage.
TL;DR - preamps won't be damaged if you are running directly into the Power amp.
@@ScienceofLoud Thank you!
High Gain Preamps good, ALL-THE-GAIN Preamps better!!!
is it available in the USA
Well done!
My TATA: how much noise is normal?
I recently swapped to a split coil away from humbuckers. And the noise was awful when holding notes. So i went on a quest to reduce noise and reduce noise. Until now, I've lost all concept of the normal amount of noise when distorting a guitar.
Is 6:30 a little bit of an homage to the outro of Operation: Mindcrime?
If so, bravo.
If not, well... it's still a cool part.
Interesting. Take the Blackstar Artist series of amps( I have the 15) . They say the “clean channel” is literally volume and tone straight to the power amp with no preamp . They say it’s like “old school” amps. Should I therefore be using a preamp pedal for that oomph? Just distortion/ od pedals sound like they could use some help in most frequencies . I find I use my “gain channel”( which doesn’t have much ) on the edge of breakup with said pedals and it’s pretty good. Should I go lower than edge of breakup?
That jam sounds amazing, but mixing guitars, amps, and speaker cabinets(?) means it's really hard to tell what the actual difference is between the two use cases. No ending clip of 11 boost pedals hooked together feeding back like mad? Missed opportunity. The playing in this episode was fantastic!
It's the best thing I ever plugged into the fx return on a jcm 900 combo. Entirely different amp, in fact wonderful.
Nice souvenir from Palawan! auto like 😅
It's basically what I do with a cheap Joyo British sound, I plug it into the FX return.
I want this beautiful V 😊 Nice Vid by the way 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Digging the Queensrÿche vibes I'm getting from the demo song.
I'm not sure why, but the pedal in the loop had more of a low mid thing going on which I really dug
Low mids are the few frequencies traditional tone stacks have scooped. When you dial the eq knobs of a Fender to noon, instead of a relatively flat line, you get a V shape with a slight boost at the treble frequencies.
When connected to an effects return, the sound is flat, so the eq knobs of the pedal react as if it was the preamp of the amp itself, with the added low mid since it isn't as scooped.
Exactly what Ken said: classic passive amp tone stacks usually cut a lot of low mid content around 400hz, which has to be taken into consideration when designing a pedal to go in front of it!
George Orwell was a power metal shredder. Most people don't know that LOL.
@8:23 WHAT Guitar is that Flying V?!?
It's a modified 2001 Gibson from their Gothic line - you can see a video playlist about its transformation here: Gibson Gothic Flying V: ruclips.net/p/PLaM1FGKAH5TkcpKcAyK8o9H0NP1nBaoLS
@@ScienceofLoud thanks so much! It’s friggin gorgeous and sounds amazing. Sucks to be broke right now. 😅
I have had my eye on the Citadel preamp by EAE, actually I want everything made by EAE lol
Thanks a lot for this very content as I have a distortion pedal with an built in EQ as well and luckily, I have a combo amp with am FX loop. It gave me some ideas as to how I approach making my tone with it.
Colin , a question, what is the part you have around the nut area of the guitar when you play the guitar?
Have come a long way since those Bugera days!
All the tones in that song sound good on their own, but the relative volumes between the instruments still just are kind of all over the place. If ya still rocking those JBLs (if I remember correctly), I kinda would recomend to get something better. Something with 8inch woofers. But still, this is the closest to a really good mix I have heard on this channel (if not counting the few that I mixed 😛) so congraz for that!
Maybe one day I'll please you. Thanks for your feedback, it is helping.
A very nice vintage sound.Super.
Oh, man......that Flying V!!!🥰🥰🤘🤘
Short answer: EQ.
I have a Westminster Effects 2716 (Mesa Dual Rec in a box) and fully expected it to sound better running into the “power amp in” of my Line 6 catalyst. To my surprise, I couldn’t get it to sound very nice this way, but then ran it into the “Clean” model with all knobs at noon and it sounds absolutely amazing. I guess it just depends on your gear. Great demo and education!
Running into the clean channel do you get satisfactory dual rec sounds? Thinking of grabbing one of those
I miss seeing the ash fossil guitar
Colin, what are your thoughts on running the Boss Metal Zone through the loop? As a pre amp?
In another thread, Colin said that "it is a well-documented use of the Metal Zone" referring to the MT-2 to the Return
Awesome info🤘✌🤘✌🤘
Great video!!!
Don't know where I can contact you, but I'm hoping you might get around to doing a TATA about the Korg NuTube.
I expressed interest in covering NuTube tech in a TATA to Vox a number of years ago, as they seem to be the only ones even attempting to implement the technology (perhaps due to the fact that Korg owns Vox and don't want to license outside of that arrangement?) but nothing ever came from it.
Unfortunately the technology isn't being used widely enough to be anything other than a curiosity, which if result of too closely guarded exclusivity is a real shame. It might also be that the application is limited and traditional valves are cheaper to implement.
@@ScienceofLoud that is a bummer. I just learned of them and it's pretty interesting. Intellectual property/patent behavior ruins everything. 😠
Thanks for explaining! Preamp-Tone.🩵
Aside from using the Preamp pedal>Effects Return example, you could also use the Effects Send>IR loader if you want to go direct to FOH/PA system.
When I learned the rules of the Preamp and Power Amp in an amp, several possibilities opened up for me. Of course, traditionally minded people would say I'm using it wrong, but they are the same people who said I sounded great when they didn't know what I was doing.
4:46 5:10
So does this mean that the Metal Zone, with it’s powerful EQ capabilities, makes it a feasible preamp?
That's a very well documented way to use the Metal Zone, yes.
Look up Ola Englund and his use of the Metal Zone. He popularized the concept
I realize now, after doing some research, how subtle and humble your reply was. Respect! And thank you for your great content 🙏
But aren't true preamp pedals waaay louder than our dirt boxes? I think Dan and Mick explained it with Simon Kingsley, who makes "true" preamp pedals that even can be switched to "pedal operation" or "preamp operation". Anyway, nice video and a good day to you sir 😊
Yes, I mentioned that the Gehenna upscales the voltage internally so that it can reach far more level than a standard 9V distortion pedal. That is quite important to driving the power amp at the expected level.
Exactly - the output of a Preamp (or preamp pedal) is usually higher due to the high headroom which is defined by the operating voltage of the circuit: standard dirt boxes run at 9V which can be too weak to properly drive a power amp. For the Gehenna we scaled this up to 36V which is quite a lot for a pedal. This has also to be taken into consideration when running into the amp input: it can push the tubes of a clean channel into saturation in addition to its own overdrive, which can be too much - especially as clean channels lack the filtering of distortion channels that keep them tight - I’d recommend starting out with low volume when running into the input and increasing from there 🙂
Grindcore?
No stinger? :(
Moo