WC3 - [UD] Happy vs Lyn [ORC] - GRAND FINAL - $18,000 Don't Force Me Cup Global Finals
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- Опубликовано: 14 мар 2024
- 📊 Results: liquipedia.net/warcraft/Don%2...
🏆 Don't Force Me Cup • WC3 - [UD] Happy vs Fo...
Grandfinal
[UD] Happy vs Lyn [ORC]
Cast by: Neo & Remo
Date: March 14th, 2024
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Игры
![WC3 - WGL Winter '19 - GRAND FINAL: [UD] Happy vs. Lyn [ORC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VTMB23w1WvE/mqdefault.jpg)
There is something about Warcraft 3 that no other strategy game can quite recreate, that it remains entertaining for so long. Truly it was created in better age of Blizz.
Sure! But it is also about B2W input! If not them, who knows what it would be about WC3 these days.
ALSO star craft
The gameplay elements are so vast yet complex that one match will never repeat itself
Spoiler shield activated 🛡️
Thanks guys!
Yooooooo wtf mate! Thanks so much for the support ❤️❤️❤️❤️
great tournament
wish lyn would come up with a more confident play, like fortitude
When I saw the finalists without Fortitude, I already knew Happy would win again.
He just won 3-2 vs Fortitude
@@LAdS897that was against Sok
after the finals he played versus Fortitude@@renannascimento2748
@@renannascimento2748against both 3-2 reverse sweep
@@tak08810lol only happy can do that my G not you or me.
confused about the commentator saying Happy was misplaying the creep camps at the beginning while Lyn was wasting all his time harassing without getting any kills, gold, exp, or items until the DK was lvl 2…
it was expected to orc wait until t2 to creep with units, until then he just harasses and slow ud. If you see - it's clear orc advantage at this point - as soon as sh and first units came out - he instantly outcreep slow ud
@@nightyonetwothree but then he could have already crept other camps on his own, because he was not able to steal just one kill harassing, while dk was leveling up. To me it looks like it was more Happy that was slowing Lyn by preventing the harass to do anything, hardly makes any sense to see this differently tbh.
For the orc it's about delaying the creeping speed to delay fast level 3 DK. Getting steals and exp is nice but it's not as important as sacrificing FS leveling to slow lev 3 DK where he can really hunt down hh quickly. The fast 3 DK essentially gives ud full map control in that window before SH comes and gives it back to orc because orc can't risk moving out or taking a non-aggressive camp or he will definitely lose hhs
can we go back to 1.26 orc now? pre reforged orc was strong enough to win vs happy
If you really watch the game, Lyn goes into upkeep for a few extra minutes while happy is at no upkeep. When they fight, Happy just TP out while staying at low upkeep. This lets happy get to 77 food at final fight and Lyn 70. In final fight Happy has proper movement and heal scroll usage, while Lyn stomp on ghoul was not until middle of the fight. Lyn needed earlier stomp and extra chain lightning (mana potion) on farseer (sacrifice buying another headhunt). Happy's play is near perfect while Lyn needs improvement to be perfect.
Lyn also could have had a lvl 5 FS and lvl 3 TC at the start of the fight, if he were creeping a bit smarter. He summoned a few wolves to scout before the fight even though it was pretty clear where Happy was and there was nothing to creep anyway. 2 Extra levels on AOE spells and slightly more mana from not summoning as much would have meant hundreds of HP worth of extra damage.
How to stomp if you get silenced? Ud heroes just outplay orc. Use micro if you cannot have silence. .if you have no silence, then just micro
Doesn't matter if he goes into upkeep or not lol. He will beat lyns 70 Food army at 49 like he usually does.
I Couldn't believe. Lyn was totally destroyed.
G1 was good but he forgot reinforced
Where have you been? Orc haven't been able to beat und in years. Maybe the odd 3-4 win once every 15 series lost or so the orc might win but that's from luck or the und playing so bad he can't make up for it.
There has to be a way to hide the length of the video on youtube right? When I see a Bo5 and 55mins with happy in it... cmon who's beating happy in that time amr?
Great cast. It was very entertaining. You both team very well! 🙂
В одну калитку после валидольного камбэка с Соком. Аве Эмперор!
Поздравляем Императора с победой!
Давай ещё!)
Lol, another 3-0 for the und vs orc. Big surprise, went just as expected. Frankly it would have been embarassing to lose a single map vs orc as und. A shame to see such talent lyn has wasted on race imbalance bur as long as he chooses to play orc against und, he deserves to keep getting 3-0. Jokes on him. It's a fact that the only way to beat an und like happy is to play und yourself or human.
lyn shits on other undead.. its only happy.. he is the emperor
@gamersrevenge6528 no he doesn't. I've never seen an und get outplayed harder than lyn vs 120 maybe two weeks ago. Lyn up 20+ food , up heros levels, up an expansion, had better tier 3 upgrades, played literally perfectly killing 10+ food of 120 early game in exchange for losing nothing, and still lost. Even Remo said it wasn't fair. Please educate yourself before spewing falsehoods.
Edit, theres nothing wrong with being a happy fan boy, just try not to be blinded by it?
@@twassell25 lol ok 120 is also a god and can beat happy... you're literally picking the 2 most godliest undead in the world. stfu
I don't even play this game, but you sound jaded and upset due to personal experiences. Lmao. Fun to watch, more funny to watch you nerds banter in the way you appear to.@@twassell25
Despite all these nerfs to ud Happy still wins. This guy is crazy.
What nerfs? lol
The statue mana nerfs are kinda huge, plus the other races, especially human have recieved buffs @@Kinsoneed
@@damo9961 Statue is still the best unit in the entire game.
@@Kinsoneedstatue's nerfs, DK's aura nerf, haunted gold mine building time increase, dark ritual mana gain and CD nerf, statues only give 2 mana/s now and if you have a brain you would destroy them first in a fight. What nerfs would you want ? Nerf statue's HP regen too, so statues become more worthless and it's better to just buy sacrificial skull to create artificial blight for yourself ? Stop crying
@@randomstuffs8495 statues hp regen was nerfed too from 10 to 8 and frost armor slow time from 4s to 2s
The moment I saw HH versus dark ranger and ghouls I knew the outcome. No amount of stomps is going to save the game with the walking moonwells(statues) and UD triple hero combo.
i bet lyn won all uds in ladder/customs. No amount of statues and ud heroes cam save the game with berserkers and healing wave and stomps
one statue and heroes are enough to beat any amount of berserkers
@@nightyonetwothree healing wave mana is limited. Orc doesn't have the mana sustain in late game. Clarities cost gold.
That's the advantage that UD has. Incredible sustain. Orc has to play hail marry each time and risk entire army to get a hero kill. With unholy aura UD can kite all day along without ever jeapordizing the heroes.
This is why I switched to HU. It's just a lot easier not having keep track of opponent.
@@nightyonetwothree he loses a lot against 120 and labyrinth
So are we not gonna talk about the game where mass HH win DR?
I've regretted watching this.
Walking fountains for the win. Or is it rolling fountains?
Император на месте, респект
Lyn had got it, but looked scared. Stalled for too long. He should really just be more aggressive.
why they never pick up items or take books??
They pick up all items most of the time except for worthless ones. Not all tome is worth picking either :v
Dayum emperor win again!
anticlimactic is all I can say. Sweeping all these prize money, good on you Emperor !
Sad to see T1 Knights not ending the game in the first 2 minutes...
I've seen these two go at this quite a few times now and the only times Lyn ever seems to win is when he plays next level with perfect micro while capitalizing on series of mistakes from Happy from the start of the match to the end. Never once have I seen Lyn beat Happy and made it look easy unless Happy had done some massive blunder, many times Happy beats Lyn and it doesn't even look like he's trying, maybe my understanding of this game is crap but it just looks so onesided to me and that makes for such a frustrating viewer experience.
Orc has no defense against nuke really. No magic immune units or shield against it. Only healwave. And they cant capitalize on bloodlust because destroyer dispel is fucking broken with huge aoe and being castable by flying units. And orc has no sustain
Lyn is and allways will be a far better player than Happy, truth is, the only times he has managed to win is when he either played like a machine with 9000 APM or if the game was tilted in his favour wheather it be items, steals, etc...
He is playing the same stratergies over and over like all the other pros hoping to snatch a win. When Lyn and Moon played Firelord vs Happy, he was suprised and lost MANY games in a row completely.
Well yeah, jokes on lyn for still playing orc at this point. Dispite being up food hero levels and ir upgrades or all the above and instantly losing when the und attacks gets so boring. The matchup is heavily in und favor. If lyn or focus wants to be able to win a grand finals against an und they need to learn to play und or human because orc will never be able to win in this patch, and blizzard doesn't give a fuck so nothing will change.
@@twassell25 I kind of agree with this sentiment but it's just so sad, I've watched like 10 WC3 series this year (all Happy finals) and everytime I did what I did this time - Skip to end and check the score to see if I could even be *ssed to watch, I also get the impression that I'm like one of very many in this community who has resorted to this because of the fatigue of watching Happy roflstomp everyone. You can argue that Lyn should swap races but then you might as well argue that all Orc fanbois (like me) just simply pack our bags and forget about WC3. Hueh, maybe I might as well.
Why doesn't Happy like being asked who his opponent is?
Old days players would say gg before resigning. Now they just tap out?
30:22 60 unit lose to 50 unit
Yeah its very common for orc to have fully upgraded tier 3 units, 3-1 attack upgrades with a kodo aura and or trueshot aura, to be up 70 food versus 49 or 50 food, with even or better heros and still get absolutely destroyed. It's a fact this matchup is heavily imbalanced. Jokes on lyn for trying to beat happy with orc still. It cannot be done.
El modo de juego de Happy es superior al de Lyn, siempre juega con 3 heroes y destruye campamentos en su totalidad y elige los que estan en zona enemiga y de regreso a su zona sigue limpiando de creeps casi nunca retrocede y eso le permite ganar nivel a sus 3 herores. En cambio Lyn mata al creep más fuerte y de alli retrocede, pierde tiempo y nivel al estar trasladándose..... se encuentra con el ejercito de Happy y retrocede.
Lol she. Lyn is a he
I feel sorry for orc pro players, they always struggle in every matchup where they needs extra effort and being ahead to win the game.
No matter what they have the worst units vs all other races+ no immune unit like others.
If only Sok managed to get it done :/
I honestly think that Lyn should play Human Vs UD from now on. I am not joking about this. The Orc Vs UD matchup is nigh-unwinnable for Orc. There is simply no way to get all the wood that you need for reinforced + HH/wyvern + spikes + tower + upgrades with the 6/7 wood peons that Orc has to both stop ghoul pushes and have a fighting army that you can actually creep effectively and fight with. You can't go grunts to save wood because you can't creep fast enough to level your heroes with them, and they all die to destroyers.
Of the 10+ different builds that Orc has tried Vs UD in the past year, the only one that has found a little bit of success has been the tier 2 wyvern build. The problem is that this is heavily dependent on item drops. If the Shadow Hunter gets a Sobi Mask, then you might have a chance, but if he gets a Cloak of Flames, it's over. Also, you have an 8 minute window to win before UD gets tier 3. Once UD has tier 3, you can't stop Acid Bomb + mass destroyers with wyverns/bats. Also, wyverns have been called "flying experience tomes" sinc3e 2003 for a reason. On game 2, literally 5 wyverns got killed instantly. How is it balanced when you can kill 4-5 units that cost 265 gold and 40 wood each with a single hit of coil/nova + acid bomb at almost no mana cost?
For those of you that don't think that it's balance, what exactly Happy did here that was so special to win? He did exactly the same every game(ghoul pushes against burrows with some gargs thrown in). The only thing that he did differently was to throw in Alchemist when Lyn went wyvern. Lyn, conversely, tried 3 different builds and lost with all of them.
The only mistake Lyn did in this series was to allow his TC get surrounded on game 3. If he avoided that surround, would it have made any difference? No. Happy played "business as usual". Quickly crept his DK to level 3 with ghouls + rods of necromancy, got lich second and then hit the 8-9 minute ghoul pushes against burrows. On game Lyn went wyvern, he simply went tier 3 knowing full well that Lyn could never take out his base anyway(so just avoid fighting), then get acid bomb and it's over.
Facts:
Ghouls dish out way too much DPS for how little they cost.
Ghouls + rods of necromancy way too good to allow UD heroes to level super fast. Orc needs hero levels to stop UD which requires creeping with HH or wyvern, but also need reinforced + spikes to stop all burrows from deing destroyed and there isn't enough wood for all that.
Back in the day Orc VS Ud was the most lopsided matchup in favor of Orc. They would just play grunt + raiders into a tier2 expo and there wasn't all that much undead could do. But the game is quite different now I guess with headhunters being stronger.
Seems like the meta has reversed. Instead of fiends vs grunts/raider it's ghouls vs HH/wyvern and the melee side has an easier time with tech and wood savings.
Not sure why Orc can't play grunts here and secure an earlyish expo. I remember back in the day farseer+tc + grunts would be considered a counter to ghouls until destroyers came in but you could counter those with reinforced burrows/towers and adding in bats/wyvern.
What changed exactly with reforged that that is no longer viable?
This copium only appears when Happy wins btw. Bro just post UD tutorial in 2024 thinking it will prove anything
@@randomstuffs8495 Happy and 120 have won most TP Leagues and TeD Cups over the past 2 years. And now, apparently, they are well on the way to winning most other big tournaments as well. Your point is invalid. That this matchup is imbalanced in favor of UD is not even debatable at this point. Fun fact: Lyn has won exactly 1 out of 10 maps Vs Happy this year. And it's not like lyn is in bad shape. He is in good shape. maybe not his best shape ever, but good enough to smash FoCus and beat Kaho 3-1. Happy's performance against Orc is *abnormal8 .If it's skill, then why can't he repeat this Vs Human and 120?
@@markvanderwerf8592 Orc can't play grunts because their heavy armor means they all insta die to destroyers. You are right that the meta xhanged. Back in the 2000;s, Orc went grunt/raider/walker with Blade every game Vs UD, and UD alwways went fiends. Blademaster's critical strike delt 15%-20% more base damage in those days. Going destroyers was not an option because Orb of lightening scaled like crazy on BM with claws. Those days are gone. UD now goes ghouls pushes Vs burrows and derstroyers, and countering that with Orc economy is really tough.
@@aalinaqian8780 Even Labyrynth has taken maps from Lyn, mo,Ron. Yeah, Orc is so "favored" over Undead that Happy and 120 win every TP League and Ted Cup. That the matchup favors UD is not debatable at this point You don't even seem to understand that "Grandmaster" on WC3 champions means players of 2,200 MMR or higher. We are talking here players above 2,500 MMR. Stop being obtuse.
#happy wins
Why orc players never go taurens?
Expensive easily countered
game 2 is the perfect example why Happy is the goat. Playing worst ud-vs-orc map, giving no lasthits to bm by perfecting synchonous ghoul attacks, maneuring with shade, investing heavy into armor upgrades. Then when the final fight goes hard - he didnt leave because he lost all his army, while Lyn did - iron will of the emperor crush his foes even when they are at advantage!
Lyn also quit map 2 too early for my taste (maybe just me though) and he seems to not even trying in game 3 :v
Lyn always leaves too early. I thought it was just in less important games but now I see it all the time. Whenever his win chance drops below like 30% he just leaves.
@@MsJavaWolfit is called experience, lyn understands when its pointless and you cant compare orc with ud...ud is the number 1 comeback race, thats why uds will never leave, no matter how bad the early was...i think statues need some changes or coil and nova should cost more mana...the 3 hereos with those walking mana and life fountains are way too strong...
EZ
18k
Coil nova too op
55min sad
Слава императору
DA!
amazing! Undead still OP since 2002. Good job Blizzard!
If UD has always been OP, then why it's only under spotlight since half a decade ago? It's human domination for whole 15 years
@@4bafiafzil999 UD is unbeatable in all major tournaments all these years. The balancing patch was named Starcraft 2 by Blizzard 🤣😂
Top 4 of this tournament are all 4 distinct races, and among those 4 players, IMO the two best players make it to finals, and the best player in the world wins. This is no sign of imbalance by any stretch of the imagination, but of a frankly insane accomplishment of balance.
recently forty beat happy many times and lyn can't do anything with happy but it's pretty cleat that happy is better than forty and lyn is better than forty, imbalance is obvious@@Karifean
Orc is doing good vs other races , but its Pain to watch it vs undead , kinda hopeless matchup . But idk how to make it work, what changes gonna fix it
UD vs HU also looks not that promissing for UD ) But that gives players more room for tournament strategy. They might want to loose by will in attempt to face more preffered opponets in the finals.
It's the weakest race relying on explosive power and timings. Orc is the only race that has to be on top of the opponent all the time. Humans can do their thing. UD can do triple heroes.
Simple thing really. Bring Orc Hero's up to parity with UD Hero's. Revert Stomp nerf and Crit nerf and give BM his Agi back. These 2 Heroes are so much weaker now than they used to be and are very important vs UD.
@@redfordkobayashi6936 i agree - it's the weakest race relying on explosive timings. Like t3 frenzy ghouls rush or die. Orcs have choice: fs no rax into t2 wyvern expo all-in or go bm+2 heroes with fortifications to secure lategame.
Mass HH has always been 50/50 against happy, now that their most of their nerfs are reverted and T2 & T3 atk/def upgrade is cheaper
If DR's Skellies are an issue, SW even got buff so their timing is faster and cheaper
Orc rep certainly are not taking advantage of these buffs
one sided
29 seconds ago😯
can we just ban happy
Did anyone ever think of banning Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt or Michael Jordan in their respective prime times? 😁
I admit, now I just check the end of the video to see if Happy won again.
It's getting a bit repetitive.
But surely, UD is not op. 👍
I'm a random player for a long time, and I can tell you as UD I have 80% wins, any other race 65%. Coil Nova Orb too hard to beat.
Or maybe Happy's just a very good player, in this competetive stage of the game Happy is the only undead that really impresses everytime with his winrate.
@@JuliaoMota-yq4jnIsn't nice to know this game will never get a balance patch?
@@AdvocatusDiaboli1992 It doesn't change it gets repetitive. UD will creep under harass, get 2 heroes, and coil-nova their way to victory.
Man, its not… it really not, Human been destroying UD like a joke, Orc at least has a chance to fight, SOK destroyed 120 3-0 in 30 minutes, And was leading happy 2-0 in the first 15 minutes, He panicked and threw the next 3 games…. Happy is just the better strategist, micro, macro player in the world, (as you can clearly see in that last fight how he splits ghouls to enter the back rank and front rank). Its juts beautiful to watch, No other UD will win that fight with those units,
My wishlist before watching a replay:
Human wins always
Orc wins (except vs Human)
UD wins (except vs Human & Orc)
NE loses
No mirror matches
i never post in here but had to this time. the bald speaker guy is really bad at this. toxic and almost everything he says is wrong. but the other guy is good.
it doesn't matter how big is the orc piercing army it always dies to coil nova and hardly a threat for UD heroes, the only army composition that could work in late game is taurens plus batriders but it's impossible to get there and even if orc would try go taurens how would he creep? right now this match up looks hopeless
Tauren would get demolished by ghouls and destroyers with some coil nova sprinkled in. By the time the Tauren gets his third swing out he's dead
no, taurens with pulverize easy kill ghouls, destroyers are the problem but here is what batriders for, the problem for orc in such combat is to detonate batriders avoiding coil nova and for UD the task is to coil nova batrides before detonate@@twassell25
Orc units are just so squishy. One spell from the UD heroes deletes them.
you mean ud units? like 340hp ghouls? or ne units like 245 archers or 435hp dryads w/o any armor? Orc have the beefest units on average compare to all other races. Both in absolute numbers and also per/food. 825hp grunt - almost an abomination at t2 for only 3 food! 475hp berserker take 2 food and have 2x more hp than archer (also damage is insane).
@@nightyonetwothree I meant the key units. Kodos, shaman and the flying exp tomes
insane damage of headhunters is just 1.5x higher than archer's but with 1.5x slower attack rate, they have 375 hp vs 255 archers but archers have much longer range, have 80% spell, magic and 65% piercing damage reduction and can hide and they are cheaper, funny thing is that archers are good against gryphons but had hunters and even berserkers just die to splash but nor archers neither headhunters are deciding units, the main orc problem is that they don't have magic immune units (beside serpent wards), that's why orc suffer against coil nova or talons, while NE have almost three such units with slow and anti spell damage, UD have Destros with free dispel (while everybody needs mana, destros even gain damage of it) and HU have breakers with mana burn, replace spirit walk into magic immune and then it will be fair@@nightyonetwothree
@@DKtrek21 they aren't they key units - they are the opposite: utility/support roles.
@@nightyonetwothree that's what key units are, the ulities. You mean damage is your priority? Then you got Berserkers that can be almost one shot by any single target spell
UD clearly not op
Dafensive orc vs undead doesn't sound that good, because if you don't have anything to apply pressure or chalenge the Undead, even more so Happy's undead, they will roam freely around the map and when they come to the orc base not even the mother of defense could save the green skins.
Cheers!
You can't stop und from creeping to lvl 3 dk. You also can't pressure und base early on because und have the best base defense in the game. If it gets too bad they can just turtle till tier 3 and then win easy
Chilling effect of Nova is ruining the game. Disgusting skill!
So you're not gonna talk about ensnare or poison too?
People keep talking about nerfs and Happy playing next level, blah blah to win again. When you have the 1% playing and the Orc player has to play perfect, with no mistakes and still lose, you know that it's a broken matchup. In the current meta, UD > Orc, no argument. This was shown in several matches between these two, where Happy makes absolute ridiculous mistakes early but can still win, even though Lyn played perfect. Grubby also showed in previous matches how OP UD is by getting his DK killed on purpose (2x) and still winning outcomes. Its just not balanced properly in this match due to unit order, 3x hero synergy + tavern. No argument. Not even worth watching this particular matchup anymore.
Shapo ba! You're exactly right, brother! You hit the nail on the head perfectly
well...ud is even more ridiculous vs night elf. This year i don't think there was a single ne win against ud(any ud not just happy) in tournaments🤣🤣. At least vs orc they need to use the coil-nova
Orc got 10 buffs and 0 nerfs this patch
Their T2 and T3 atk and def upgrade got cheaper and SW timing is faster and cheaper yet orc players abandoned its usage after it gets buffed
What UD get this patch? Only nerfs on core units and buildings while buffing meme Necro strat
Overalls it's orc>UD this patch
@4bafiafzil999 What are you supposed to do with SW? Give destroyer 20 more damage? lol
@@uioup7453 to revive those poor nuked taurens you dummy