Art of war is so dismissive of orks that they didnt even consider them as a "melee army in 10th because those dont exist anymore" while us greenskins punching people out with squigs and choppas !!! WAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!
What's the precedent from GW to rewrite entire rulesets for armies during an edition? It sounds like this is what's required to balance this mess. Competitive 40k sounds absolutely miserable, like playing baseball but one team gets to shoot the other in the kneecaps before you play.
Wraith knight being worth 650 is so funny when you factor in that is 650 worth of eldar units, not 650 points worth of normal units. So it is like 5 fire prisms so really the wraith knight is worth like 1k normal people points.
World Eater rules are actually quite solid, but like they said the army is very overcosted. I'd like to see Berserkers at 95, Terminators at 175, Eightbound at 120, and Exalted Eightbound at 135. That would make World Eaters very solid.
@@thraxdownff I definitely agree with you, but hitting hard is relative to points. It's more likely their efficiency goes up with point reductions than GW changing their AP or DMG profile.
I really don't understand why GW have decided guns should be cheaper and stronger than close combat units. A gun can do damage for 5 turns, while a melee unit realistically only gets 2 or 3 turns of close combat.
Let me tell you, my 10 man block of Sword Bretheren with Helbrecht brought a 10 block of assault terminators down to 1 and their librarian. Don’t sleep on their killing power. Can’t forget about them in a Black Templar list
Grey knights have no business being in B tier. They're definitely D tier. Their win rate makes it clear. The rare individual who makes them work well does not change the fact that the GK army is very poor.
Is it bad that, as someone who does not get to play a wide variety of opponents, I want to run into someone's gsc army? Whether or not I'll lose I relish the spectacle of sweeping models.
Something else about Tau I think that is hurting them, they possibly went from the most braindead mid table bully army that can just pick up your opponent when you go first and roll well to being a hyper premeasure giga brain finesse army overnight basically
I'm doing ok with Grey Knights and agree we have some of the best rules, but the absolute total lack of killing... places us lower than you have them listed. Not THE BOTTOM, but not middle of the pack. Team events do NOT prove an army's effectiveness
Yeah, T'au need a full-on rework. Points can't fix lackluster datasheets and strats/abilities that are strictly worse than those that exist in other armies
You forgot Black Templars guys. They are also a bespoke chapter alongside Deathwatch, spacewolves, blood angels and dark angels. And they are probably one of the better ones!
Votann: "they have no rules" This i really felt in the few matched i did with my votann. (Balanced army because of what i own) Even against sisters, which was a close match, the army felt so bland. Nothing exciting and you just desintegrate, even against boltguns.
Instantly gets better with the introduction of Farsight Enclave or Mont’ka. The lack of any detachment rules for basically the first battle rounds really sucks in a game around mobility. By the time you get to use your detachment rules, the game is basically over.
Seriously if they just gave us a decent mont'ka first it would be a whole different situation , forcing our one and only detachment rule to do nothing t1-2 is just so stupid @@josephschneider9
T'au are being carried solely by tetras, lone operative and CiB which honestly the crisis unit shouldn't even have. their detachment ability and about half of their stratagems are either niche, bad or too slow to take effect. That can hardly be enough to say they are B tier.
MoE Glaive slaps. Kharn in ingress with 10 zerks slaps. Forgefiend not as hard as CSM but very worth the points. +1 wound strat is very helpful vs monst/veh. It just takes finesse to play world eaters. angron/demon prince and 45 zerks went 5-1 lso
The only thing I kinda agreed with is that WE units are kinda overpriced. I mean the sheets ain't bad, they are quite solid imo. Kharn is an absolute powerhouse and what he hits, he kills. It just takes a certain way of playing them, and I play them very aggressively. I focus on killing things and denying points rather than tunnel-vision objectives. First two rounds have been quite even in points due to this, third and fourth have tended to lean in my favor since my opponent has lost a huge chunk of their objective players and I now have good opportunities to rack up som points in peace.
Genuine question for someone still getting their footing in 10th. What is considered an average amount of danage an army dies a turn? Is it killing 2 sqauds in a turn? A squad up to toughness 5 that has a 3+? A tank and a few units from squads? I just hear a lot of talk about "this army doesn't do good damage" but are we comparing that to outliers that do more damage then they should? Or are we comparing that to points per wound? I'm not sure, I'm affraid I'll get to Mathshammer the more I look into it.
You want unholy canis rex vs wraith knight rolled 2 6s subbed in 1 rolled hot 11 on shot 1 9 on shot 2 7 on shot 3 and the other 2 of the 5 wounded canis took over 40 wounds But sir Hector was still standing
Played nothing but BT since the beginning of 10th, unbelievable fun, unreal damage, I'm at a 65 percent wr 24 games.. problem is eldar, no los guard, custard's (in the right hands) and TS( especially the msu build) absolutely batter you... And there are so many of them atm 🙈😅
modifiers to hit rolls cannot change more than +/-1 but some rules change the ballistic skill value and that can stack with a modifier to the die roll.
Indirect should require at least one unit in the army to have LOS on the enemy you are firing at. It's the 41st Millenium and tech wouldn't require it but it would help balance things and allow units to hide from the indirect fire junk. Nothing like getting shot off the board turn 1 because of Desolation Marines and a Librarian, and the unit with Bolter Discipline w/ Oath
They're basing it on Seigler's performance, when he won a tournament back in 9th with T'au as the single weakest faction in the game. They may be B-tier for Jim, but literally anyone else on the planet won't be getting that kind of success.
Woah grey knights are overly reliant in teleporting ie get off the board so they aren't holding an objective have no cp regen or sustain units over priced and don't do much they are right where they are it. 9 inch charges or shooting stuff with no ap
Same with T'au. Seekers lost Indirect Fire, SMS and AFP got severe statline nerfs, our army rule no longer applies to any Indirect weapon, and we lost the one or two strats to mitigate the Indirect Fire penalty that we had in 9th.
Damn, DW lower than Gladius SM? I suppose at the very highest level that makes sense, but DW seems to be doing significantly more X-1’s at events than Gladius lately. So for most people that watch….
@@killkaio7565 very much so. They share a win rate with the armies in D tier, but GKs are B tier because reasons. Nonsense. They're playing a different edition of 40k than the rest.
Space Wolves are dead. GW Fix Wulfen (give them their hammers and full fight on death, do not increase their points), and boost the NAMED characters. Cut Bjorn's points down to 185pts
Guard should be C. They struggle in a non-team format. If 40k was a killing game like earlier editions then sure but in an objective based game they struggle because lack of push.
A different style of orks can beat cutodes. If you take a nob warboss unit (which many do) they can kill terminators, if you take them as well as a gahz nob unit (which is generally not as good) then you can fight custodes. Charge two units, custodes fight first you fight on death and can cripple / kill two cutsodes units if you pick the right ones.
They just pop once a game 4+ feel no pain leaving you to barely scratch them on average roles. They then use their assassin to vex your fight on death strat to 3 CP and you don't get another chance to do this.
@@sharkbait367 you don't charge the wardens, you charge the guard bricks. If they loose two guard bricks they don't have much to score. You are still orks you sit on objects and get wounded on 6s in shooting. I am not saying it is some free win match up for orks, it is hard but I do think it is allot more winnable than it looks.
Sisters are definitely not C tier, they consistently hang around a low 40er% winrate while already playing as close to Imperium Soup as possible, actual Sisters armies would easily fall down into a 30er% winrate if they would be the standard at GTs.
Let's try this again, for you people who are letting the weaker, false Cult players cheat you. GSC Acolytes cannot use demo charges more than once per game. The errata says that the new unit you get from ambush is IDENTICAL to the unit that was just destroyed. That means that the new unit has the same EXPENDED demolition charges as the one that was just destroyed. It doesn't say anywhere that once-per-game unit or gear abilities are reset when a unit dies. The errata also doesn't say that you are copying the unit as it was when it started the game. The wording says that a returning Cult Ambush unit is a copy of the DEAD unit- the unit that still has expended demo charges. I can't wait until GW fixes this really bad wording. We don't need them to come back anyway. GSC is very powerful despite once-per-game charges. Atalan Jackals can only do one demolition run per battle round. For some reason, people are hanging onto this one with their fingernails. Let it go, guys. It's a poorly worded GW rule; it is not a technical loophole, even so. The OUT-OF-PHASE rule (Rules Commentary, p. 10) specifies that rules used "as if it were your X phase" cannot trigger other rules. Some folks have decided that unless a special rule states, verbatim, "as if it were your X phase..." (which is totally not a requirement for the errata's application anywhere in the OUT-OF-PHASE section), then this restriction on out of phase rules doesn't apply. They want to keep using Prowling Agitants to trigger another Demolition Run with their Atalan Jackals unit. It doesn't matter if the wording isn't exact guys; the rules do not say that it needs to be. A rule used outside of its normal phase is self-explanatory. Again, GW just sucked at wording this clarification clearly. When a rules' wording can mean either one of two different things, please just go with the most limiting interpretation, so that you aren't winning due to an unfair advantage. Finally, the Primus' Decoys and Misdirection ability is currently, partly broken. Don't get cheated by a "beardy" or oblivious GSC player. RAW, the units that the Primus' ability allows to redeploy can indeed go into Strategic Reserves instead of just somewhere else on the battlefield. Unfortunately the GSC player still cannot go over a total of 500 points in S.R. to start the game with when she does this. It looks like being able to go over the normal cap is what was intended, but that is unfortunately not how the rule is worded. The Decoys and Misdirection rule states that when redeploying a unit into deepstrike with this ability, the unit can go into reserves "...regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves". This currently means nothing. The cap is based on points, not the number of units. So essentially, that last part of this special rule doesn't do anything yet; a GSC player can still only start a game with 500 points or less in Strategic Reserves like anyone else. No GSC player needs ANY of the more favorable interpretations of these rules. And just because a streamer or influencer tells you that a rule works a certain way, doesn't mean that they aren't making a mistake; they are human too. ALWAYS go read the rules for yourself, and make your own determination. Don't let people bully you into accepting something as a rule, if it really isn't clear. Make sure to come to a mutual understanding before the game about the above issues, please. If you play me, none of them will be in effect... and I'll still Ascension the heck out of your Day, lol!
I wonder which will give first, tournament organizers finally upsating their terrain to a new edition or GW giving into the competitive players whining
I have been running dark angels unforgiven task force every single local tournament and have been winning constantly, against Genestealers, necrons, chaos knights, other space marines, tyranids, daemons, astra militarum, etc. I think people just suck at play DA.
@@soroccoshado2772 I run unforgiven task force Lion as warlord (not the most meta for his cost but he is still good) 1 land raider Redeemer 1 5 man deathwing knights Led by one Terminator Capt with heaven fall blade. Then I run Azreal with a 10 man of Hellblasters, and an apothecary with Tenacity. 2x gladiator Lancers 1x repulsor executioner with heavy laser Lion either supports the frontline and pushes forward, or I have him in deep strike dropping down to force my opponent to screen. I run the terminators together and inside the land raider running up the middle or towards a unit I want to get in Melee, unless I want to play defensive(ie daemons) then I run them outside and screening. Hellblasters I either have chill on home objective or push em towards the middle. All the tanks I have then chill in the back separately until they kill the high strength/toughness units your opponent has then I move forward with them, keeping close to the objectives killing high strength/ low toughness units.
Votann is a bad gunline army with decent mobility tools. Death Guard is a bad melee army without any mobility. Death Guard will lose that matchup every single time with skill-equal players.
@@ArtofWar40k I get Votann can beat DG in a matchup but Votann beating DG in a match doesn’t mean they are a better army though, when they lose against more matchups against other armies. the win-rates have consistently shown Votann being worse. The way this was tiered is confusing as well, you have some armies that are ranked well higher than their win rates would show because you can build a specific build or matchups that does better than most others (Votann, Dark Angels, Tau, grey knights) but then you also rate other armies lower even though a specific build has shown to be far more capable in the winrates (imperial knights, chaos demons) it’s inconsistent.
@@Brnolan22 Our ranks are primary based on how we feel we army can do in the hands of a top faction expert, rather than based solely off of winrates or aggregate data. We're not saying this is the way it is in a definite sense, but expressing our opinion on if we had the best player in each faction play their armies many times over, that this would be closer to that data. Votann simply put in our opinion has more ways to express skill than DG in more matchups as hard as that may be to believe based on our own games.
Eldar can build a list that looks like an actual army which is around C tier. It's not that difficult. If you don't take the big gun units this army is very much average. Aspect warriors are bland and pretty weak. Fire prisms, wraithguard, wraithknights, lynxes and super heavy tanks are overtuned in conjunction with their faction rules, other than that - they are meh.
Been having some good results with sons of sanguinius detachment. Correct about the good units though , only running Dante and 3 x5 man JP DC units. The rest is SM units. Played my first game with my new custodes army though… holy shit, they slap
Sorry but i still cant wrap my head around the Sanguinor is good ... ive played 3 games with him and he is just decent.... if he had half a little yncarn hittyness i can get behind it but no he barely kills a squad of anything good....
Guard is in the B tier with the guy with a sword and a blue hood and some tall symbol on his back, but I don’t regognize the model. Does anyone know which model that is?
@lawrencebianco5855 they used an imperial agent inquisitor as the image for the Guard. Why not use Adeptus Arbites to represent Imperial knights then? Most IG players don't even run inquisitors! The guard has so many iconic characters but to choose something not even part of the army? The disrespect hurts.
@0ohmit0 ya they really seem to hate gaurd. Gaurd has exactly 1 army, mass arty. And it isn't even that good into most of the top tier armies. It's great into the bottom factions though. Hopefully gaurd don't get needlessly nerfed again because a bunch of whiners on the internet don't like indirect.
I think just make indirect -1 BS and +1 save is not enough really…. They have to do something more drastic like making those attacks not be able to be rerolled for hits nor wounds.
@Roeland666 As a T'au player who thinks "B-tier" was the result of either a misclick or illicit substances, I agree that DG just need a whole lotta work.
0:00 Sponsors
0:49 Intro
2:51 Quinton UnFun Fact
3:53 Space Marines (Gladius)
7:14 Adeptus Mechanicus
9:40 Imperial Guard
16:03 Blood Angels
23:29 Chaos Demons
25:40 Imperial Knights
28:08 Aeldari
40:37 Chaos Space Marines
42:29 Adeptus Custodes
44:40 Grey Knights
50:47 Chaos Knights
52:19 Death Guard
54:04 Dark Angels
57:55 Drukhari
1:01:33 Genestealer Cults
1:09:11 Necrons
1:17:21 Orks
1:23:21 World Eaters
1:26:28 Deathwatch
1:28:14 Sisters Of Battle
1:29:49 Space Wolves
1:32:37 T'au
1:39:37 Thousand Sons
1:41:58 Tyranids
1:44:34 Leagues Of Votann
1:47:01 Review
Thank you!
Jack talking about BA without bringing up his new tattoo Challenge: IMPOSSIBLE 😂
As it should be 🤣
Guys, you really need chapters on these videos
its a live stream so it makes sense they dont have chapters, otherwise id agree
@@perceus6488they can easily add timestamps in the description
They ranked all the Chapters!
and better pics for the factions, I have to squint to figure out what's what!
Guy, you really need to not comment
Yeah, that orc truck killing Abaddon was one of the greatest 40k moments this year 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Art of war is so dismissive of orks that they didnt even consider them as a "melee army in 10th because those dont exist anymore" while us greenskins punching people out with squigs and choppas !!!
WAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!
Orks be crumping no doubt!
You my boy Jack! WAAAAGGH!!!
What's the precedent from GW to rewrite entire rulesets for armies during an edition? It sounds like this is what's required to balance this mess. Competitive 40k sounds absolutely miserable, like playing baseball but one team gets to shoot the other in the kneecaps before you play.
Or more like some armies are little league players going up against major league players. Hopefully, they'll balance things in September.
Wraith knight being worth 650 is so funny when you factor in that is 650 worth of eldar units, not 650 points worth of normal units. So it is like 5 fire prisms so really the wraith knight is worth like 1k normal people points.
World Eater rules are actually quite solid, but like they said the army is very overcosted. I'd like to see Berserkers at 95, Terminators at 175, Eightbound at 120, and Exalted Eightbound at 135. That would make World Eaters very solid.
I think they could hit a little harder but also I agree the main problem is points
@@thraxdownff I definitely agree with you, but hitting hard is relative to points. It's more likely their efficiency goes up with point reductions than GW changing their AP or DMG profile.
I really don't understand why GW have decided guns should be cheaper and stronger than close combat units. A gun can do damage for 5 turns, while a melee unit realistically only gets 2 or 3 turns of close combat.
@@brothertobias The mysteries of the universe. That's just 40k though. We've had shooting editions and we've had melee editions.
Indirect is dumb. It should require at least 1 friendly unit to have LOS to the enemy unit.
Let me tell you, my 10 man block of Sword Bretheren with Helbrecht brought a 10 block of assault terminators down to 1 and their librarian. Don’t sleep on their killing power. Can’t forget about them in a Black Templar list
Just a comment about GK, if a army is really complex to play and still a B tier it should be lower in the B tier scale.
Great video!
Grey knights have no business being in B tier. They're definitely D tier. Their win rate makes it clear. The rare individual who makes them work well does not change the fact that the GK army is very poor.
Is it bad that, as someone who does not get to play a wide variety of opponents, I want to run into someone's gsc army? Whether or not I'll lose I relish the spectacle of sweeping models.
Something else about Tau I think that is hurting them, they possibly went from the most braindead mid table bully army that can just pick up your opponent when you go first and roll well to being a hyper premeasure giga brain finesse army overnight basically
I'm doing ok with Grey Knights and agree we have some of the best rules, but the absolute total lack of killing... places us lower than you have them listed. Not THE BOTTOM, but not middle of the pack. Team events do NOT prove an army's effectiveness
Even Tau "only good stuff" doesn't belong in B... they run into any armored list, eldari ect ect and it just does... nothing.
Yeah, T'au need a full-on rework. Points can't fix lackluster datasheets and strats/abilities that are strictly worse than those that exist in other armies
You forgot Black Templars guys. They are also a bespoke chapter alongside Deathwatch, spacewolves, blood angels and dark angels. And they are probably one of the better ones!
They are at the end of B tier
people keep saying DG is bad, they fuck up elite infantry by spamming plague spewers, autohitting and anti infantry 2+
Votann: "they have no rules"
This i really felt in the few matched i did with my votann. (Balanced army because of what i own)
Even against sisters, which was a close match, the army felt so bland. Nothing exciting and you just desintegrate, even against boltguns.
Im surprised you think Tau is that good currently , Personally I feel like they have huge gaps in their codex
They're terrible. Cheaters at tournaments and the WTC somehow ruling markerlights can daisy chain, have displaced tau
There’s a couple of lists out there using Shadowsun that are killer.
@@JayzusKhrist Shadowsun only seems meh since tetras give full rerolls
Instantly gets better with the introduction of Farsight Enclave or Mont’ka. The lack of any detachment rules for basically the first battle rounds really sucks in a game around mobility. By the time you get to use your detachment rules, the game is basically over.
Seriously if they just gave us a decent mont'ka first it would be a whole different situation , forcing our one and only detachment rule to do nothing t1-2 is just so stupid @@josephschneider9
Eldar are basically back to 7th edition levels
While every other faction was told they needed to be less lethal and believed it.
T'au are being carried solely by tetras, lone operative and CiB which honestly the crisis unit shouldn't even have. their detachment ability and about half of their stratagems are either niche, bad or too slow to take effect. That can hardly be enough to say they are B tier.
Just because Seigler is by far the best T'au player alive, doesn't make T'au strong for the rest of humanity.
MoE Glaive slaps. Kharn in ingress with 10 zerks slaps. Forgefiend not as hard as CSM but very worth the points. +1 wound strat is very helpful vs monst/veh. It just takes finesse to play world eaters. angron/demon prince and 45 zerks went 5-1 lso
The only thing I kinda agreed with is that WE units are kinda overpriced.
I mean the sheets ain't bad, they are quite solid imo.
Kharn is an absolute powerhouse and what he hits, he kills.
It just takes a certain way of playing them, and I play them very aggressively.
I focus on killing things and denying points rather than tunnel-vision objectives.
First two rounds have been quite even in points due to this, third and fourth have tended to lean in my favor since my opponent has lost a huge chunk of their objective players and I now have good opportunities to rack up som points in peace.
On the indirect issue, the counter is then, how do we handle castle armies?
In 10th they exist to a degree still which is a concern
Genuine question for someone still getting their footing in 10th. What is considered an average amount of danage an army dies a turn? Is it killing 2 sqauds in a turn? A squad up to toughness 5 that has a 3+? A tank and a few units from squads?
I just hear a lot of talk about "this army doesn't do good damage" but are we comparing that to outliers that do more damage then they should? Or are we comparing that to points per wound? I'm not sure, I'm affraid I'll get to Mathshammer the more I look into it.
Everyone forgets primaris psyker for guard are the best psykers in game when attached to death korps
All melee needs to go up in general
Guard needs an indirect fire detachment with benefits to indirect and a general detachment that gives you born soldiers 24/7 and lets you move
God no! Buff anything else, but not the indirect!
GG for 2nd place at Wtc guys.
You want unholy canis rex vs wraith knight rolled 2 6s subbed in 1 rolled hot 11 on shot 1 9 on shot 2 7 on shot 3 and the other 2 of the 5 wounded canis took over 40 wounds
But sir Hector was still standing
Played nothing but BT since the beginning of 10th, unbelievable fun, unreal damage, I'm at a 65 percent wr 24 games.. problem is eldar, no los guard, custard's (in the right hands) and TS( especially the msu build) absolutely batter you... And there are so many of them atm 🙈😅
Is it better running pure Drukhari (+ Yvraine ) in a Ynnari detachment than in their own?
Indirect should hit on 5+ unmodifiable!! (Indirect afterall approximates hits)
Can +1 to hit modifiers stack? I thought in 10th you could only improve your BS by +1 maximum? At 12:33 it's mentioned.
modifiers to hit rolls cannot change more than +/-1 but some rules change the ballistic skill value and that can stack with a modifier to the die roll.
“Eldar are unstoppable”
My guardian/aspect warrior heavy army gets stomped.
Skitarii are so bad you're pretty much paying 12.05 pts for half an intercessor
Skitarii at 125 while fire prism was 125 at lunch is the most stupid thing ever
I thought Necrons were the highest played alien army???
Dark Eldar in c tier....yeah in the strange us meta. There is more than dark lances in the index
Iv had a blast playing Grey Knights, but a B? I agree are rules are amazing, but at some point you need to kill something.
100% agree. GK are great at killing trash, but against T7+, they're nemesis weapons become whiffleball bats. Low C tier - High D tier imo
Tau are too high
Indirect should require at least one unit in the army to have LOS on the enemy you are firing at. It's the 41st Millenium and tech wouldn't require it but it would help balance things and allow units to hide from the indirect fire junk.
Nothing like getting shot off the board turn 1 because of Desolation Marines and a Librarian, and the unit with Bolter Discipline w/ Oath
Also Eldars are basicly made to play (win) the missions and score progressive secondaries
Tau at B-Tier with sub 40 win-rate? Ya'll done lost your fucking minds.
They're basing it on Seigler's performance, when he won a tournament back in 9th with T'au as the single weakest faction in the game. They may be B-tier for Jim, but literally anyone else on the planet won't be getting that kind of success.
See what I mean Shortie?
Stop putting us near the top. I don't want 1kSons nerfs.... Lol
Woah grey knights are overly reliant in teleporting ie get off the board so they aren't holding an objective have no cp regen or sustain units over priced and don't do much they are right where they are it.
9 inch charges or shooting stuff with no ap
I dont think all indirect is an issue. CK indirect is the nicest of them.
They suffer all the issues of indirect with no way to avoid it
Same with T'au. Seekers lost Indirect Fire, SMS and AFP got severe statline nerfs, our army rule no longer applies to any Indirect weapon, and we lost the one or two strats to mitigate the Indirect Fire penalty that we had in 9th.
Damn, DW lower than Gladius SM? I suppose at the very highest level that makes sense, but DW seems to be doing significantly more X-1’s at events than Gladius lately. So for most people that watch….
Grey Knights in "B" tier is hilarious
It is sooo weird that is a first for 10th
I love them GKs, but I feel like he's over rating them.
@@killkaio7565 very much so. They share a win rate with the armies in D tier, but GKs are B tier because reasons. Nonsense. They're playing a different edition of 40k than the rest.
If Jack is sad about Sang Guard, he should look at Wulfen :P
RIP Wulfen. Hell RIP SW
Think Orks are bottom of A
Space Wolves are dead. GW Fix Wulfen (give them their hammers and full fight on death, do not increase their points), and boost the NAMED characters. Cut Bjorn's points down to 185pts
yeah my Vikings are just on display for now. I haven’t touched them since my first game of the new addition.
I'd put Necrons in top of B. They can easily lose to everything in A and S but can be nigh impossbile to those in B or lower in particular.
Yet they keep winning GTs whereas most of the other A tiers arent
Guard should be C. They struggle in a non-team format. If 40k was a killing game like earlier editions then sure but in an objective based game they struggle because lack of push.
The pictures are so bad to use to show which faction, bring back the symbols
I only played Votann at the start of the edition. Have started picking up drukhari so I have one trick between my two armies!
Waiting for the dark lance toting hearth guard conversion 😂
A different style of orks can beat cutodes. If you take a nob warboss unit (which many do) they can kill terminators, if you take them as well as a gahz nob unit (which is generally not as good) then you can fight custodes. Charge two units, custodes fight first you fight on death and can cripple / kill two cutsodes units if you pick the right ones.
They just pop once a game 4+ feel no pain leaving you to barely scratch them on average roles. They then use their assassin to vex your fight on death strat to 3 CP and you don't get another chance to do this.
Not to mention them refilling their warden squad on their command phase for free
@@sharkbait367 you don't charge the wardens, you charge the guard bricks. If they loose two guard bricks they don't have much to score. You are still orks you sit on objects and get wounded on 6s in shooting.
I am not saying it is some free win match up for orks, it is hard but I do think it is allot more winnable than it looks.
Grey Knights in B and Sisters in D?! Sisters are definitely C tier and Grey Knights are in C or even D.
Sisters are definitely not C tier, they consistently hang around a low 40er% winrate while already playing as close to Imperium Soup as possible, actual Sisters armies would easily fall down into a 30er% winrate if they would be the standard at GTs.
Or 65pts currently
#nerfsangguard
Let's try this again, for you people who are letting the weaker, false Cult players cheat you.
GSC Acolytes cannot use demo charges more than once per game. The errata says that the new unit you get from ambush is IDENTICAL to the unit that was just destroyed. That means that the new unit has the same EXPENDED demolition charges as the one that was just destroyed.
It doesn't say anywhere that once-per-game unit or gear abilities are reset when a unit dies.
The errata also doesn't say that you are copying the unit as it was when it started the game.
The wording says that a returning Cult Ambush unit is a copy of the DEAD unit- the unit that still has expended demo charges. I can't wait until GW fixes this really bad wording.
We don't need them to come back anyway. GSC is very powerful despite once-per-game charges.
Atalan Jackals can only do one demolition run per battle round.
For some reason, people are hanging onto this one with their fingernails. Let it go, guys. It's a poorly worded GW rule; it is not a technical loophole, even so.
The OUT-OF-PHASE rule (Rules Commentary, p. 10) specifies that rules used "as if it were your X phase" cannot trigger other rules. Some folks have decided that unless a special rule states, verbatim, "as if it were your X phase..." (which is totally not a requirement for the errata's application anywhere in the OUT-OF-PHASE section), then this restriction on out of phase rules doesn't apply. They want to keep using Prowling Agitants to trigger another Demolition Run with their Atalan Jackals unit.
It doesn't matter if the wording isn't exact guys; the rules do not say that it needs to be. A rule used outside of its normal phase is self-explanatory. Again, GW just sucked at wording this clarification clearly. When a rules' wording can mean either one of two different things, please just go with the most limiting interpretation, so that you aren't winning due to an unfair advantage.
Finally, the Primus' Decoys and Misdirection ability is currently, partly broken.
Don't get cheated by a "beardy" or oblivious GSC player.
RAW, the units that the Primus' ability allows to redeploy can indeed go into Strategic Reserves instead of just somewhere else on the battlefield. Unfortunately the GSC player still cannot go over a total of 500 points in S.R. to start the game with when she does this.
It looks like being able to go over the normal cap is what was intended, but that is unfortunately not how the rule is worded. The Decoys and Misdirection rule states that when redeploying a unit into deepstrike with this ability, the unit can go into reserves "...regardless of how many units are already in Strategic Reserves". This currently means nothing.
The cap is based on points, not the number of units. So essentially, that last part of this special rule doesn't do anything yet; a GSC player can still only start a game with 500 points or less in Strategic Reserves like anyone else.
No GSC player needs ANY of the more favorable interpretations of these rules. And just because a streamer or influencer tells you that a rule works a certain way, doesn't mean that they aren't making a mistake; they are human too. ALWAYS go read the rules for yourself, and make your own determination. Don't let people bully you into accepting something as a rule, if it really isn't clear.
Make sure to come to a mutual understanding before the game about the above issues, please.
If you play me, none of them will be in effect... and I'll still Ascension the heck out of your Day, lol!
I wonder which will give first, tournament organizers finally upsating their terrain to a new edition or GW giving into the competitive players whining
I have been running dark angels unforgiven task force every single local tournament and have been winning constantly, against Genestealers, necrons, chaos knights, other space marines, tyranids, daemons, astra militarum, etc. I think people just suck at play DA.
Hi, what kind of list do you use ?
@@soroccoshado2772
I run unforgiven task force
Lion as warlord (not the most meta for his cost but he is still good)
1 land raider Redeemer
1 5 man deathwing knights
Led by one Terminator Capt with heaven fall blade.
Then I run Azreal with a
10 man of Hellblasters, and an apothecary with Tenacity.
2x gladiator Lancers
1x repulsor executioner with heavy laser
Lion either supports the frontline and pushes forward, or I have him in deep strike dropping down to force my opponent to screen.
I run the terminators together and inside the land raider running up the middle or towards a unit I want to get in Melee, unless I want to play defensive(ie daemons) then I run them outside and screening.
Hellblasters I either have chill on home objective or push em towards the middle.
All the tanks I have then chill in the back separately until they kill the high strength/toughness units your opponent has then I move forward with them, keeping close to the objectives killing high strength/ low toughness units.
Indirect is a fine part of the game, but just limit the cheese. An army can only bring one or two indirect platforms in their list. Problem solved.
Guys. Love the videos. But saying "belongs here" when im secondscreening you, is kinda frustrating 😅
They have less fire power than a 100pts Guard unit
Votann being “better” than Death Guard is a cope. There hasn’t been a consistent winrate stats that show Votann better than anything.
I played Votann into DG with and without allies and easily won each time with my Votann. -Richard
Votann is a bad gunline army with decent mobility tools. Death Guard is a bad melee army without any mobility.
Death Guard will lose that matchup every single time with skill-equal players.
@@ArtofWar40k I get Votann can beat DG in a matchup but Votann beating DG in a match doesn’t mean they are a better army though, when they lose against more matchups against other armies. the win-rates have consistently shown Votann being worse.
The way this was tiered is confusing as well, you have some armies that are ranked well higher than their win rates would show because you can build a specific build or matchups that does better than most others (Votann, Dark Angels, Tau, grey knights)
but then you also rate other armies lower even though a specific build has shown to be far more capable in the winrates (imperial knights, chaos demons) it’s inconsistent.
@@Brnolan22 Our ranks are primary based on how we feel we army can do in the hands of a top faction expert, rather than based solely off of winrates or aggregate data. We're not saying this is the way it is in a definite sense, but expressing our opinion on if we had the best player in each faction play their armies many times over, that this would be closer to that data.
Votann simply put in our opinion has more ways to express skill than DG in more matchups as hard as that may be to believe based on our own games.
Eldar can build a list that looks like an actual army which is around C tier. It's not that difficult. If you don't take the big gun units this army is very much average. Aspect warriors are bland and pretty weak. Fire prisms, wraithguard, wraithknights, lynxes and super heavy tanks are overtuned in conjunction with their faction rules, other than that - they are meh.
Been having some good results with sons of sanguinius detachment. Correct about the good units though , only running Dante and 3 x5 man JP DC units. The rest is SM units. Played my first game with my new custodes army though… holy shit, they slap
Sorry but i still cant wrap my head around the Sanguinor is good ... ive played 3 games with him and he is just decent.... if he had half a little yncarn hittyness i can get behind it but no he barely kills a squad of anything good....
DW in the middle of B tier, lol
Where’s guard? I don’t see their picture
Guard is in the B tier with the guy with a sword and a blue hood and some tall symbol on his back, but I don’t regognize the model. Does anyone know which model that is?
@@lawrencebianco5855 they chose the worst picture’s possible
@lawrencebianco5855 they used an imperial agent inquisitor as the image for the Guard. Why not use Adeptus Arbites to represent Imperial knights then? Most IG players don't even run inquisitors! The guard has so many iconic characters but to choose something not even part of the army? The disrespect hurts.
@@eenis1281
Yeah, took me forever to find Necrons….
@0ohmit0 ya they really seem to hate gaurd. Gaurd has exactly 1 army, mass arty. And it isn't even that good into most of the top tier armies. It's great into the bottom factions though. Hopefully gaurd don't get needlessly nerfed again because a bunch of whiners on the internet don't like indirect.
Massively over rated Tau. One unit of crisis suits cannot win you the game on their own and everything else is trash.
Lone Operative spam will keep you alive til Turn 3, but good luck catching up on points
This board game is a joke!! Not even balance
I think just make indirect -1 BS and +1 save is not enough really…. They have to do something more drastic like making those attacks not be able to be rerolled for hits nor wounds.
Really... tau suck. Bottom 5. Only way to win is ONE specific build...
At least you have "a build".... DG player here.
@Roeland666 As a T'au player who thinks "B-tier" was the result of either a misclick or illicit substances, I agree that DG just need a whole lotta work.
@@SarajevoKyoto I wish I had something playable xD