10:09 Two reasons why Hullbreacher is/was more oppressive: 1) Most “Wheels” cost three mana, so it allowed for a quicker win. 2) Hullbreacher gives you the resources to use the cards you drew. Having 7 cards to your opponents’ collective zero cards is not very different than having 28 cards to their collective zero. However, there’s a pretty big difference between having access to another 21 mana versus no extra mana.
@@NoctisVigil Jodah says “I’m going to pump up all my creatures as soon as it’s my turn”, the Toxrill says “They’re not going to be there by your turn” with a smile, and the Vorinclex re-reads its abilities and says “uh oh”.
The bar is gone. There is no bar anymore. Jodah brought too many friends, Toxril spiked the punch, and Vorinclex brought the mood down. A brawl ensued. A smoldering slime crater is all that is left. The bar’s insurance company denied their claim.
And then Horseshoe Crab emerged with a Retraction Helix and mana to spend and said "We don't take kindly to folks that don't take kindly around here." and booted them all while the onlookers stared confused. ;p
Based on the thumbnail, the only cards I “hate” are the Fierce Guardianship cycle. It’s not even that I’m upset that my opponent played it; I hate its design. ETA: I have no issue with free spells. I have issue with free spells that require no cost in deck building.
@ Clearly you didn't read the entirety of my comment... when I said I don't have any issue with free spells. I don't hate free spells. I have no issue with Force of Will or Force of Negation or Snuff Out or any of the pitch elementals. these are all cards I enjoy playing AND playing against. ----- I have an issue with the DESIGN of the Fierce Guardianship cycle. If a card is going to be free, there MUST BE A COST to play this card, both in gameplay and/or in deck-building. That cost should be a minimum threshold of blue cards or lands with basic land types or... I don't know, skipping your next untap step or that opponent gets to draw a card and create a treasure token.
@@crawdaddy1234 I assuming you're replying to me. I said it's ok to hate them not that you do hate them. Fierce Guardianship is no different than any other free spells in design if you ask me. Free spells are just that no cost to them besides maybe having a commander out which is easy.
@@OverlyCriticalAnime Force of Will and Fierce Guardianship are VEEEEERY different in design. Other than maaaaaybe Once Upon a Time, free spells require something of the player - whether that's in deck construction or gameplay or both to allow them to play that spell for free. ---- Snuff Out requires you to play swamps and pay a hefty amount of life. The pitch spells/elementals require you deck to contain a minimum number of blue cards AND two-for-ones you. Even the Pacts require your deck to function in a particular way to maximize their uses...except for maaaaaybe Slaughter Pact, you can't just use them as "midrange" cards. If you're not in a combo deck that just needs Pact of Negation to force through their combo or using Summoner's Pact for your win condition or a Hive Mind deck... the Pacts are pretty bad cards. ---- Fierce Guardianship and that cycle require you... to play the game. I don't remember what the white or green ones do, but they are equally poor DESIGNS (albeit far worse cards).
Chaos players are so rare it's fun to play with them, you don't plan a strategy for it but just to be at the table and enjoy the chaos is the fun part I have a friend who plays norin the wary and I love playing with him to see new players reactions and he hardly wins just likes to mess up game boards
I don't win often either, mainly because I don't take games seriously, but I tend to go out with a bang. By that I mean, I blow myself up and deal damage to the remaining players if I know I'm about to lose. After being dragged into hours long game when I first started I decided to always put a "Self-destruct Button" in my deck.
So with you on most of these. Especially Dranith Magistrate. I started playing it in my GW aggro deck because there were so many Monolith Commanders that just expected to a) never have their commander removed or b) never played enough removal.
Yeah. I have never been at a table where the person who Farewelled won. Farewell is awful because it inevitably turns a normal length game into nearly 2 hours of misery. Cyc Rift usually resolves and the players wins next turn or shortly thereafter.
I will defy the game etiquette and instant speed concede if someone targets me with Mindslaver. I explained it to a guy at the LGS once, "Look. I get time to play this game once or twice a month, maybe. I did not come here to give you my deck to play for an hour."
I didn't pass through a terferi's protection myself, BUT i allowed the votron player to still kill my opponent who had cast it in response to his letal attack by casting a "Wild Slash" (mono red deck burn with Imodane, the Pyrohammer). A very fun game and an epic moment in my play group
The Gary argument is something I found in my own games with him and I started taking him out. Sheldon's own description of Primeval Titan warping the game around one card is exactly what started happening at our table with Gary and it always became a race to either kill or be killed by him. I was the one doing it, and I realized it just wasn't that fun anymore.
Personally I am not allowed to run Boros with any Indestructible creature. People know of my jank combos. Since you don't, I'll explain. If I have an Indestructible and any damage is thrown my way there is a chance I will play the combo Saving Grace & Arcbond. Saving Grace has Flash and redirects damage to me and my permanents to the equipped creature for the turn and Arcbond makes damage recieved to a creature be dealt to all players and creatures for the turn. The creature takes the hit, Arcbonds, re-absorbs the damage I should take and Arcbonds again and again until no more opponents. Works best with Stuffy Doll.
The Drannith Magistrate for me is more about the vibe than anything else. Sure it can be removed but the fact that someone chose to play that in a casual game is frustrating to me
18:24 Actually, Warp World *could* completely screw you. lol You reveal that many cards, but doesn't mean you're guaranteed to hit that many permanents. Hell, odds are, if you have a reasonable spread, you're going to end up with less permanents if you hit any of your instants, sorcery OR EVEN PLANESWALKERS OR BATTLES. Warp World doesn't see those cards types. So it can completely obliterate a super friends deck for sure. I still agree with your placement and reasoning, I think Warp World is one of the only forgivable chaos cards of its ilk, but it still can fuck people over, and statistically your odds are high that you come out the other end with less permanents. The worst is coming back out the other side and going from like 12 lands to like 3-5.
I've really come to love Possibility Storm as a sort of weird "protection" effect in Red, though I understand how people can find it unfun. I definitely think cards like Opposition Agent and Notion Thief are needed to punish ramp and excessive card draw and I wouldn't mind having more of them in the format. I'm just so tired of everyone doing nothing but ramp and draw to set up for the late game in the first 5 turns. With 40 life and 3 players it's so so difficult to punish someone for not committing anything to the board and I find most games play out the same way if I don't have a way to punish that.
Time and Tide is a hilarious counter to TP. Unfortunately it is a completely dead card in your deck if your opponents aren't playing White or don't have play TP. Time and Tide says, "Simultaneously, all phased-out creatures phase in and all creatures with phasing phase out." So you let their TP resolve, then with the board wipe still on the stack, you cast Time and Tide and all their creatures come back and die. Disciple of Caelus prevents permanents from phasing in, which is pretty hilarious. But that card is also super oppressive since it leaves everyone with 5 permanents.
When I ran Etali, Primal Storm, Possibility Storm was a way to protect him since he was a high priority target. Using PS as a deterrent is perfectly reasonable, especially in mono-red decks. Outside of that, yeah I totally agree. If you are using PS to cause chaos without a plan, I can see why people would be frustrated.
My thing wiht opposition agent is not a card to stop tutoring but IT DOES SO MUCH. Not only do you negate the search you can steal their card, see the entirety of their deck, their hand and any face down cards....................good lord why?! Also i love the best anti tutor card is in the color with the best tutors.
A card i feel should be here is squee the immortal. While not dangerous as an individual card, it's almost always exclusively used in infinite combos, and there are few ways to break it, cause you can't exile or kill it. Most casual decks don't have the means to remove it. The moment squee hits the board, you either immediately zone in on that player to kill them before they get the other combo piece, or you just sit and wait to lose once they get the other combo piece. There are rarely any fun uses for it
@@BorkBigFrighten2 No it is squee that is the problem, because it sees use in more infinite combos, and is way harder to deal with. If you're in a casual pod, it wouldn't be weird if no one is playing anything that can effectively remove squee, and even more so enough of it to rely on getting it. Sure, the other pieces can be a problem as well, but at least you can hit those with a spot removal and it's more or less dealt with. Squee you can't just do that. And with the other combo pieces, you can still see them played and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the moment you see Squee being played, you KNOW they have an infinite combo around him in the deck
I don't know this combo you speak of but I do have a Squee collection. (All versions of Squee) I think he's a funny little goblin and being more prone to doing things because it's funny instead of practical I use him a lot.
A idea for a video, why not do one that gives ways of dealing with the most hated cards that we see in the format. Ways to counter them with little to no effort if possible
Once, in a 3-way-game, because of stack shennanigans, both my opponents casted Teferi's Protection... leaving me, a Gisa and Geralf deck, alone for an interaction-free full turn, I went ahead and comboed into a situation where I could counter/remove everything they could do the second they came back, without really exhausting resources (it was probably the nastiest board I've ever achieved outside of goldfishing). I was behind the whole game beforehand.
Cards like Drannith Magistrate is what I'd consider to be removal bait. Reduce the resources an opponent has to counter or remove something you find important. Sure it dies to a lightning bolt, but that's one less lightning bolt they can use to disrupt my strategy later.
"If you're playing a chaos deck you have to announce it to the table first." I don't, I am a homebrewing rogue player and everyone knows that my decks can do random, unexpected things. I am considered the Chaos Player. I have decks with many win cons and even though I build my decks in front of players they have no idea how they work, but they work.
funny... I think the only card out of those I really have an issue and would like to see gone is fierce guardianship, but I def agree with the Scrambleverse take - just really haven't seen this card played in the few hundreds (maybe thousand, idk, not counting) of games I've played. really hate vorinclex, notion thief or magistrate, but just find them really easy to deal with in most decks as they're creatures. now, Gary being in this list is wild... typical "Oh, i don't like when my opponents win the game" kind of mentality.
my playgroup uses farewell, and ive never once seen it resolve more than two modes. i typically only seen it used for : Artifact + Creatures Enchantment + Artifacts enchantment + creatures considering enchantments are nigh impossible to remove outside of green and white, i am fine with it.
@goldcreeper7376 ive only seen people use the graveyard part like 3-5 times, and it was to stop me from doing graveyard shenanigans. ive used it on that mode like 2 maybe 3 times to get rid of a card like Anger, Wonder, or Grave Crawler. players dont like exiling their own graves for whatever reason and it prevents them from doing it. there is a card in yugioh called Raigeki. it says "destroy all creatures your opponent controls" i use farewell like that. usually picking the modes that will hurt me the least, and thats always how ive seen it used. at that point its just a white cyclonic rift.
30:00 one of my friends started his combo with The Red Terror and Shalai and Hallar. The disbelief in his eyes was priceless when I cast my Teferi’s. We had a pod of 5 people. He took out three people. I killed Shalai and Hallar with spot removal before completely taking him out 😂
I do agree with lots of your takes. I personally would put dranith higher and vorinclex and possibility storm lower on the list... I am not running clex atm, played a couple of times against both and vorinclex seems more fun to me and more interesting... Dranith just screams high power to me somehow😅 ... Possibility thingy .. My girlfriend plays it and i do think its fun too thinkin about what could be that sol ring that you are casting hmmm either an equipment or .... Fun to me😊 Toxrill ...yeah played it in muldrotha for some time and have had the weirdest game with 2 toxrils and thats when i learned about priority ... Who gets the slugs? When? 😂 ... but yeah ended up cutting it ... Taking care of all the counters is double anoying .. Gary juppp ... very boring and easy wincon ...
The biggest problem with farewell isn't the oppression, is the time. This card makes the game last for 3 hours for no reason. I'd rather see a collision victory in my 50 minutes game than a farewell.
My local game store had a problem with a cheater who would fake shuffling his deck and not request a cut. He ran Mycrosynth Lattice and Consulate Crackdown and players would quit after he pulled the combo. After a haitus I played again only to face him immediately and knowing his combo I let him do it, tapped for mana in response and once it happened used the mana to summon token creatures to start slapping him around. He had to destroy his own combo to try and save himself and still lost.
I have Possibility Storm in my Rocco deck, and it really wasn’t that bad at my table. There are so many ways to cast from outside your hand now that it’s not so egregious. Plus if you think about it, it’s gifting your opponents possibly something better than what they had. They cast a little mana dork and then all the sudden flip a stompy creature off the top.
"I hate Expropriate, it's definitely going in the 'A' Tier... but at least White can phase out to stop it." ... "I hate Teferi's Protection (even though it's a good response to Expropriate), it's going in 'S' Tier (later lowered to high 'A')." ... ... Yeah. Teferi's Protection is annoying when it slows you down from your win, but it's really not a bad or devastating card. If your opponent had to use it, you are either in a winning board state, and are still likely to win, or you were trying to go off with a combo and need to rethink if a combo failing is a vulnerability in your deck. Only once have I lost a game against someone after they played Teferi's Protection.
I think it is important to note that, in addition to the "removal wins games" mantra, that counterspells are key. None of the spells you mention here are all that bad, as long as people are playing responsibly. If you're in blue, obviously there is no excuse, but every color has one or two spells that interact on the stack (yes some of these ways are much jankier than others) to interact with powerful board wipes or cards that are difficult to remove. The real problem is that many many players simply do not think about playing counters or other instant speed interaction because they have become with playing so efficiently that they tap out every turn. Unfortunately this leaves you open to "get got" as they say. If this happens, the only person to blame is yourself. Admittedly, if you are playing mono color decks, this can be difficult. However, Warping Wail is a thing and almost no one plays it. Null Elemental Blast is also available for multicolored threats. Almost no one plays it.
The only card in the entire format that I truly hate is Void Winnower. Turning off half of my deck with one card is so upsetting and I've lost to it more times than I have fingers on my hands
I see most of these cards fairly regularly with my group ( I play high power edh) we don't play these cards unless it fits a certain theme. On the brightside it makes it a pretty easy decision to decide what to remove/counter
At least a Teferi's Protection can be used to close out a game (same with Cyclonic Rift). Farewell is most often used to slow the game to a halt because someone is behind.
Warp world sucks not necessarily because of the "chaos" factor and getting random stuff in return for what you had before. It is insanely annoying because of how long it takes to resolve. Cast it on turn 8 or 9+ and you're looking at 8 lands per player, a handful of mana rocks per player, potentially several creatures per player and maybe an enchantment or two. This could easily be 20 plus permanents PER player to resolve THEN you have ETB effects to resolve in the right order and it all turns into a nightmarish pain in the ass that takes 10 minutes to figure out because the chaos player thought it'd be "funny". Hard pass.
Warp World is essentially mass land destruction. Almost every time I see it resolve there's at least one person at the table that can no longer participate in the game in a meaningful way because either they had way fewer permanents in play when it resolved and now have access to less than half the Mana that the other players have, or else their deck just has fewer permanents in it so they don't get much from the Warp World. I would rather see someone play Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation because then they would at least be honest about what they are trying to do.
@edhdeckbuilding I never meant to imply that they shouldn't. I'm just saying that I don't see much difference from Warp World to Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation. You build your deck to break the parity of these cards so you come out in a winning situation.
I think Possibility Storm is quite fun. You just cast your cheapest spells and hope to get your biggest spells. But I guess it sucks, if you are a blue mage with a lot of counterspells between other instants. Warp World and Scrambleverse are way worse imo, taking forever to resolve and there is no strategy to the randomness.
Ive gotten a win through Teferi's once actually, with a Zinnia deck. Opponent cast it to avoid what another opponent was doing, so I made a bunch of 1/1s on my own turn, pumped Zinnia to like 28 power, played a Skullcrack for good measure and swung them out of the game. I knew focusing in like that might cost me the overall game and it did, but I made sure they lost. Got mine more than I got got.
Very first card, Farewell, is a perfectly fine removal spell. 6 mana Sorcery is a fair card. Board wipes always reset the game, but that’s the point. Someone is behind and is trying to catch up. In your games, how often has someone gotten off to a fast start and is going to run away with the game and people are begging for a board wipe?
I killed all my opponents with my Phenax deck, that besides the "Big Booty Creatures" the other spells are centered in "All Opponents/Players" effects. The one with the active Teferi's protection was the saltiest about it
I think people uniquely dislike PrimeTime and the idea of unbanning it over Gary because of how obnoxious Simic landfall is, mostly because wizards has a strange obsession with not printing anything to punish extra land drops. GY recursion and blink-looping both have things that hate on them, at least.
I punish extra landdrops. I have Zo-Zu the Punisher and Tunnel Ignus to do a combined 5 damage to them for each after the first. I also have Acidic Soil to do an extra damage for each Land they have afterwards because if you're going do something make sure you do it right.
As far as boardwipes go I do not mind a boardwipe if the person wins by doing it on that turn or the next turn. If they boardwipe especially if it is a one sided boardwipe and then do not win but dawdle around for the next 2-5 turns to finally grind everyone out and win that is just annoying as f*** they are less damaging when used in the early game as a quick reset to put everyone back on even footing though
Drannith Magistrate was designed to hate on Companions, yet now it exists as a general hate piece that goes against the spirit of the format. If a card DOES NOT allow people to cast their commander, it shouldn't exist in the format if the ban list was for cards that go against that spirit.
I did not expect gary to be on the list and definitely being above fierce guardianship. Gary needs black pips on the board to be efficient for it‘s 5 cmc and is one of the view cards rewarding a mono colored deck. You can also kill it on etb trigger on the stack. I don‘t understand why not more people do that since most removal cards are instants.
@@sirsimon6562 Killing it while the ETB is on the stack only reduces devotion by 2. The actual threat is where it is repeatable (for mono black, graveyard recursion).
Out of all these cards i could possibly see in an EDH game. I would still rather see these cards in a game any time over the Kansas City Chiefs going to another Super Bowl...
The only card ive sworn to never use is Stasis. I dont care if anyone else uses it. I will play against anything. I will never play stasis in my decks. Its a matter of principle. Everything else is fair game in my decks. And once again, i dont mind what anyone else plays with. I will play against anything.
I feel like Warp World is S-tier problematic or D-tier. It will completely wreck an instant/sorcery deck. Turn 8 Warp World against a deck with 12 total creatures can gut their board to 3 lands, 1 utility artifact, and an instant L.
I have the Precon Wizard Commander that makes creature copies for 1 and Flameshadow Conjuring that does the same but for 1 Red. I'm not allowed to play with them anymore without immediate hostility after I played Star of Extinction and used Dualcaster Mage to cast it 4 times.
I have the magistrate in one deck as a stax creature that I want to be sacrificed, the harbinger of the seas is in there for the same reason haha play more removal. I have expropriate in my mono blue Gandalf cuz I can cast it at instant speed, which is incredibly powerful
I hate cyclonic rift more than farewell because it shows up so much more in the average game. Like, yeah, farewell is worse, but I face probably 20 rifts to 1 farewell and it just has the cumulation effect on me. Maybe even more than 20 to 1
Hey Demo, just wanted to tell you why the top of most tier lists is an S: It comes from fighting games. Street Fighter and stuff. It started way back in the 90s as a normal list like school grades. A, B, C and so on. While normal characters had these grades based on how strong they were, later there were secret characters - boss characters: SUPER CHARACTERS. That's what the S stands for: Super. Characters with basically no weaknesses and better with their strenghts than anyone else with their strenghts. Think of not only being able to throw a fireball but being able to jump and throw two fireballs at the same time while airborne. As fighting games evolved and secret secret characters became a thing who were even stronger than those first secret characters that were already not allowed in tournament play because they were just too strong tiers even added tiers above S: SSS and God tier.
I think that T-pro is actually bad at higher powers, It’s basically putting yourself into a 1v1 against the archenemy or the player who comboed off. I think best case is you get a cheapish “extra turn”
@ there is an insane number of variations that do exactly that without tpro. Heroic intervention into wrath of god, clever concealment into farewell. Tpro cannot be blamed for a play, especially since it also basically ends your turn. Cyclonic rift is literally this problem AS A SINGLE INSTANT SPEED CARD. tpro is not the problem here.
Idk what groups people play in but these really aren't that bad. Notion thief does get complained about a ton. A lot of these cards are just an issue of run more removal.
I disagree with the notion thief thing, tbh on its own notion thief is a good card that requires opponents to play around just like plenty of others that nobody seems to have an issue with. It dies to any creature removal, and is essentially a trap spell on a body. I think its strong but fair on its own. The only real issue is the combination with wheel effects, but plenty of good cards also have 1+2 combos that straight up win the game so what's the issue? I'm not going to say "kiki jiki is too strong on its own" because it combos with a ham sandwich, its a good card, but not insane, same as notion thief. I think the only reason people hate notion thief over something like kiki jiki is because its an interraction/stax piece and players love to whine and cry about anything even adjacent to stax.
Looking at the list of cards basicly only 2 of these cards i would "hate" to see in a game and that is fierce guardianship (or any free counterspell) and farewell. With possiblity storm and scramble verse be runner ups mainly in situations where people use them to lock up games so no one can play.
Seeing this list makes me think people haven't played against winter orb or stasis enough. If you think Vorinclex is bad... Glad to see Drannith this low on the list. It's definitely a hatebear, and I think people just have too much of a hatred towards hatebears. Casual commander players are always saying how they want games to go longer and hate when games end quickly, but as soon as I play a Drannith, an Archon of Emeria, or a Blind Obedience, suddenly I'm the worst person in the world. If i'm able to stop you from doing some degenerate thing, why would I not do it? Opposition Agent falls into the same category. I feel like most of the cards ranked higher on this list is just cards that interact with things your opponents are doing. If the key to magic and winning is playing more interaction, but then put all the best interaction on the "no fly zone" list, what does that really do? Letting everyone just do absurdly strong plays is how you lose games. Why would I not play Notion Thief if they're about to draw 8 cards? Do i have to play weaker, non-instant speed variants that arent as strong like spirit of the labyrinth that they can see coming? But hey, can't play either of these cards because they're "stax pieces".
I thought it was impossible but I think you've swayed my opinion on Drannith Magistrate. I'm so tired of seeing monolith commanders, I think I'd be happy if somebody put this into play and shut down somebody's Jetmir deck... I don't know if I'll ever be ready to be the guy who plays that card, however.
You didn't mention 5 mana Elesh Norn :(. I agree with most everything you said. As someone with like 8 copies of teferi's protection I'm feeling a bit of white guilt now, though 😂
How do you hate a scrambleverse less? Homeward Path, Coveted Falcon, Brooding Saurian and Trostani Discordant. Homeward path is only creatures but it's a land so won't get stolen
opposition agent is a much needed tool to stop people from just tutoring all day long. i thought that would be something you would be suportif of. for me this card is the same as a drannith magistrate. if its that big of a deal for someone they should run more removal and probably play less tutors.
I was kind of surprised... I guess you've not played against a good jodah deck. I'm one of those guys that always keeps removal on hand but I can never get rid of this guy. There's like always some piece of invasion that stops me from doing what I want to do with him and he literally has access to everything good. Not undefeatable I have beat one jodah deck in my time but I had to use Edgar Markov to do it...
Honestly all the cards that read "If you control your commander you can cast for free." Are utter bad card design. No spell should ever be free. Cards like force of will have a cost your trading two cards to handle one. Its not free and more skillful to know when to do it.
I hate dranith magistrate to the point of crashing out and just devoting all my resources to ensure that the player who casts it has the least chance of winning
People is already getting cards when they wheel so treasures are better to cast the cards you already draw, also 3 mana vs 4 mana is a lot of difference you takking like they were 6+ mana cards
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10:09 Two reasons why Hullbreacher is/was more oppressive: 1) Most “Wheels” cost three mana, so it allowed for a quicker win. 2) Hullbreacher gives you the resources to use the cards you drew. Having 7 cards to your opponents’ collective zero cards is not very different than having 28 cards to their collective zero. However, there’s a pretty big difference between having access to another 21 mana versus no extra mana.
Not being in dimir is also makes a difference.
@ Not... really? Most (though not ALL) wheel decks are going to be Grixis - especially now with Bowmasters.
the playpattern is still the same. and if you sit on the other side of the table its equally unfun.
If I remember correctly, Tomer from mtggoldfish achieved a teferis protection kill, but he used Stomp/Bonecrusher Giant
"So a Jodah, a Vorinclex, and a Toxiril walk into a bar..."
@@NoctisVigil Jodah says “I’m going to pump up all my creatures as soon as it’s my turn”, the Toxrill says “They’re not going to be there by your turn” with a smile, and the Vorinclex re-reads its abilities and says “uh oh”.
The bar is gone. There is no bar anymore. Jodah brought too many friends, Toxril spiked the punch, and Vorinclex brought the mood down. A brawl ensued. A smoldering slime crater is all that is left. The bar’s insurance company denied their claim.
And then Horseshoe Crab emerged with a Retraction Helix and mana to spend and said "We don't take kindly to folks that don't take kindly around here." and booted them all while the onlookers stared confused. ;p
@ghost_in_the_stereo8802 the pillowfort player in the corner: "So...do I win then???"
Based on the thumbnail, the only cards I “hate” are the Fierce Guardianship cycle. It’s not even that I’m upset that my opponent played it; I hate its design.
ETA: I have no issue with free spells. I have issue with free spells that require no cost in deck building.
This!
They are even worse with partner commanders.
Its ok to hate on free spells. They are some that are pretty bad but that's not the norm
@ Clearly you didn't read the entirety of my comment... when I said I don't have any issue with free spells. I don't hate free spells. I have no issue with Force of Will or Force of Negation or Snuff Out or any of the pitch elementals. these are all cards I enjoy playing AND playing against.
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I have an issue with the DESIGN of the Fierce Guardianship cycle. If a card is going to be free, there MUST BE A COST to play this card, both in gameplay and/or in deck-building. That cost should be a minimum threshold of blue cards or lands with basic land types or... I don't know, skipping your next untap step or that opponent gets to draw a card and create a treasure token.
@@crawdaddy1234 I assuming you're replying to me. I said it's ok to hate them not that you do hate them.
Fierce Guardianship is no different than any other free spells in design if you ask me.
Free spells are just that no cost to them besides maybe having a commander out which is easy.
@@OverlyCriticalAnime Force of Will and Fierce Guardianship are VEEEEERY different in design. Other than maaaaaybe Once Upon a Time, free spells require something of the player - whether that's in deck construction or gameplay or both to allow them to play that spell for free.
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Snuff Out requires you to play swamps and pay a hefty amount of life. The pitch spells/elementals require you deck to contain a minimum number of blue cards AND two-for-ones you. Even the Pacts require your deck to function in a particular way to maximize their uses...except for maaaaaybe Slaughter Pact, you can't just use them as "midrange" cards. If you're not in a combo deck that just needs Pact of Negation to force through their combo or using Summoner's Pact for your win condition or a Hive Mind deck... the Pacts are pretty bad cards.
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Fierce Guardianship and that cycle require you... to play the game. I don't remember what the white or green ones do, but they are equally poor DESIGNS (albeit far worse cards).
I like the format of this. Patrons create the list, you rank. Also, S-tier is super tier, essentially above A.
Sigma Tier
Chaos players are so rare it's fun to play with them, you don't plan a strategy for it but just to be at the table and enjoy the chaos is the fun part I have a friend who plays norin the wary and I love playing with him to see new players reactions and he hardly wins just likes to mess up game boards
I don't win often either, mainly because I don't take games seriously, but I tend to go out with a bang. By that I mean, I blow myself up and deal damage to the remaining players if I know I'm about to lose. After being dragged into hours long game when I first started I decided to always put a "Self-destruct Button" in my deck.
I could see you saving that Teferi’s Protection for last… we all knew where it was going 😂
So with you on most of these.
Especially Dranith Magistrate. I started playing it in my GW aggro deck because there were so many Monolith Commanders that just expected to a) never have their commander removed or b) never played enough removal.
The “S-Tier” thing is based on something in Japanese basically meaning “Super Tier.”
They often have an SS-Tier as well… for when Super just isn’t good enough.
First time I can remember seeing S-tier/rank was playing Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast 😅
@@nanoglitch6693 The first time I saw your mom that I can remember was playing Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast!
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Pardon my inner 12 year-old.
20x more games have been won in our groups by Cyclonic Rift over Farewell.
Yeah. I have never been at a table where the person who Farewelled won. Farewell is awful because it inevitably turns a normal length game into nearly 2 hours of misery.
Cyc Rift usually resolves and the players wins next turn or shortly thereafter.
Farewell drags out games, rift finishes games. I very much prefer rift.
@@DoctorBrickz 100% me too
I will defy the game etiquette and instant speed concede if someone targets me with Mindslaver. I explained it to a guy at the LGS once, "Look. I get time to play this game once or twice a month, maybe. I did not come here to give you my deck to play for an hour."
Sounds like you need a new hobby
But this should be a non-issue. A Mindslaver activation that says target player loses the game is so much better.
Cry baby
You shouldn't play magic
@@hahahafunniness You're the reason every LGS has a Febreeze budget. I can smell you from here.
I didn't pass through a terferi's protection myself, BUT i allowed the votron player to still kill my opponent who had cast it in response to his letal attack by casting a "Wild Slash" (mono red deck burn with Imodane, the Pyrohammer). A very fun game and an epic moment in my play group
The Gary argument is something I found in my own games with him and I started taking him out. Sheldon's own description of Primeval Titan warping the game around one card is exactly what started happening at our table with Gary and it always became a race to either kill or be killed by him. I was the one doing it, and I realized it just wasn't that fun anymore.
Personally I am not allowed to run Boros with any Indestructible creature. People know of my jank combos. Since you don't, I'll explain. If I have an Indestructible and any damage is thrown my way there is a chance I will play the combo Saving Grace & Arcbond. Saving Grace has Flash and redirects damage to me and my permanents to the equipped creature for the turn and Arcbond makes damage recieved to a creature be dealt to all players and creatures for the turn. The creature takes the hit, Arcbonds, re-absorbs the damage I should take and Arcbonds again and again until no more opponents. Works best with Stuffy Doll.
The Drannith Magistrate for me is more about the vibe than anything else. Sure it can be removed but the fact that someone chose to play that in a casual game is frustrating to me
18:24 Actually, Warp World *could* completely screw you. lol You reveal that many cards, but doesn't mean you're guaranteed to hit that many permanents. Hell, odds are, if you have a reasonable spread, you're going to end up with less permanents if you hit any of your instants, sorcery OR EVEN PLANESWALKERS OR BATTLES. Warp World doesn't see those cards types. So it can completely obliterate a super friends deck for sure. I still agree with your placement and reasoning, I think Warp World is one of the only forgivable chaos cards of its ilk, but it still can fuck people over, and statistically your odds are high that you come out the other end with less permanents. The worst is coming back out the other side and going from like 12 lands to like 3-5.
I have proliforated poison counters through a t pro for the win before (it was in a poison heavy pod that everyone at the table was okay with)
I've really come to love Possibility Storm as a sort of weird "protection" effect in Red, though I understand how people can find it unfun.
I definitely think cards like Opposition Agent and Notion Thief are needed to punish ramp and excessive card draw and I wouldn't mind having more of them in the format. I'm just so tired of everyone doing nothing but ramp and draw to set up for the late game in the first 5 turns. With 40 life and 3 players it's so so difficult to punish someone for not committing anything to the board and I find most games play out the same way if I don't have a way to punish that.
Winter orb makes me want to scoop
Poor sport :/
Would love to see another tier list video!!
Time and Tide is a hilarious counter to TP. Unfortunately it is a completely dead card in your deck if your opponents aren't playing White or don't have play TP. Time and Tide says, "Simultaneously, all phased-out creatures phase in and all creatures with phasing phase out."
So you let their TP resolve, then with the board wipe still on the stack, you cast Time and Tide and all their creatures come back and die.
Disciple of Caelus prevents permanents from phasing in, which is pretty hilarious. But that card is also super oppressive since it leaves everyone with 5 permanents.
When I ran Etali, Primal Storm, Possibility Storm was a way to protect him since he was a high priority target. Using PS as a deterrent is perfectly reasonable, especially in mono-red decks.
Outside of that, yeah I totally agree. If you are using PS to cause chaos without a plan, I can see why people would be frustrated.
My thing wiht opposition agent is not a card to stop tutoring but IT DOES SO MUCH. Not only do you negate the search you can steal their card, see the entirety of their deck, their hand and any face down cards....................good lord why?! Also i love the best anti tutor card is in the color with the best tutors.
What do you think of chaos cards like Confusion in the Ranks? Especially in a Rocco / Norin Deck this is really, really annoying :D
"I've never done a tier list"
Me: Oh, okay. So the concept is new for You.
"Why is the S is on the top?"
Me: Oh. You're *THAT* new to the concept.
I think your chair is turning green, Demo.
I have a mindslaver Mill deck. And while it hasn't happened I theorize it could get past to Teferi's protection.
Demooooooo! Best edh youtuber! ❤
What is the shirt on the top right of your background I have been trying to figure it out for months lol
A card i feel should be here is squee the immortal. While not dangerous as an individual card, it's almost always exclusively used in infinite combos, and there are few ways to break it, cause you can't exile or kill it. Most casual decks don't have the means to remove it. The moment squee hits the board, you either immediately zone in on that player to kill them before they get the other combo piece, or you just sit and wait to lose once they get the other combo piece. There are rarely any fun uses for it
Hard disagree. Squee can absolutely be used fairly, and if it's being used in a combo, is Squee really the issue, or is it Food Chain, for example?
I agree it's not the main problem, plus you can cast stuff like grafdiggers cage and kill it and it's gone for good unless a GY gets exiled
@@BorkBigFrighten2 No it is squee that is the problem, because it sees use in more infinite combos, and is way harder to deal with. If you're in a casual pod, it wouldn't be weird if no one is playing anything that can effectively remove squee, and even more so enough of it to rely on getting it. Sure, the other pieces can be a problem as well, but at least you can hit those with a spot removal and it's more or less dealt with. Squee you can't just do that. And with the other combo pieces, you can still see them played and give them the benefit of the doubt, but the moment you see Squee being played, you KNOW they have an infinite combo around him in the deck
I don't know this combo you speak of but I do have a Squee collection. (All versions of Squee) I think he's a funny little goblin and being more prone to doing things because it's funny instead of practical I use him a lot.
@raicudona6395 he's a great sac tool
30:00 T-Pro doesn't protect your library. As long as you aren't targeting... Ruin crab, maddening cacophony, rad counters, etc.
A idea for a video, why not do one that gives ways of dealing with the most hated cards that we see in the format. Ways to counter them with little to no effort if possible
Once, in a 3-way-game, because of stack shennanigans, both my opponents casted Teferi's Protection... leaving me, a Gisa and Geralf deck, alone for an interaction-free full turn, I went ahead and comboed into a situation where I could counter/remove everything they could do the second they came back, without really exhausting resources (it was probably the nastiest board I've ever achieved outside of goldfishing). I was behind the whole game beforehand.
Drannith mag, stops you from playing commander but just kill him.
Gary, finishes a game, nothing about killing him but his worse lol
Phage the Untouchable > Teferi’s Protection :)
wait what?
@ I just mean that you can still win/make someone lose if you hit them with Phage the Untouchable if they have used Teferi’s Protection.
Nope. Part of Protection is damage, and Phage needs to deal damage. So it’d hit, but not do any damage.
@ ahhh- good call! My mistake
Cards like Drannith Magistrate is what I'd consider to be removal bait. Reduce the resources an opponent has to counter or remove something you find important. Sure it dies to a lightning bolt, but that's one less lightning bolt they can use to disrupt my strategy later.
"If you're playing a chaos deck you have to announce it to the table first." I don't, I am a homebrewing rogue player and everyone knows that my decks can do random, unexpected things. I am considered the Chaos Player. I have decks with many win cons and even though I build my decks in front of players they have no idea how they work, but they work.
Didn't think Drannith was that bad until i got Drannith myself what's worse is people usually run him in stax decks
funny... I think the only card out of those I really have an issue and would like to see gone is fierce guardianship, but I def agree with the Scrambleverse take - just really haven't seen this card played in the few hundreds (maybe thousand, idk, not counting) of games I've played. really hate vorinclex, notion thief or magistrate, but just find them really easy to deal with in most decks as they're creatures.
now, Gary being in this list is wild... typical "Oh, i don't like when my opponents win the game" kind of mentality.
my playgroup uses farewell, and ive never once seen it resolve more than two modes. i typically only seen it used for :
Artifact + Creatures
Enchantment + Artifacts
enchantment + creatures
considering enchantments are nigh impossible to remove outside of green and white, i am fine with it.
Really surprises me that you haven't seen it used to remove graveyards, that's by far the most common "tacked-on" use of it I've seen.
@goldcreeper7376 ive only seen people use the graveyard part like 3-5 times, and it was to stop me from doing graveyard shenanigans. ive used it on that mode like 2 maybe 3 times to get rid of a card like Anger, Wonder, or Grave Crawler. players dont like exiling their own graves for whatever reason and it prevents them from doing it.
there is a card in yugioh called Raigeki. it says "destroy all creatures your opponent controls"
i use farewell like that. usually picking the modes that will hurt me the least, and thats always how ive seen it used. at that point its just a white cyclonic rift.
30:00 one of my friends started his combo with The Red Terror and Shalai and Hallar. The disbelief in his eyes was priceless when I cast my Teferi’s. We had a pod of 5 people. He took out three people. I killed Shalai and Hallar with spot removal before completely taking him out 😂
Ooo a win with T-Pro. Daring today, are we? lol
I do agree with lots of your takes. I personally would put dranith higher and vorinclex and possibility storm lower on the list... I am not running clex atm, played a couple of times against both and vorinclex seems more fun to me and more interesting... Dranith just screams high power to me somehow😅 ...
Possibility thingy .. My girlfriend plays it and i do think its fun too thinkin about what could be that sol ring that you are casting hmmm either an equipment or .... Fun to me😊
Toxrill ...yeah played it in muldrotha for some time and have had the weirdest game with 2 toxrils and thats when i learned about priority ... Who gets the slugs? When? 😂 ... but yeah ended up cutting it ... Taking care of all the counters is double anoying ..
Gary juppp ... very boring and easy wincon ...
The biggest problem with farewell isn't the oppression, is the time. This card makes the game last for 3 hours for no reason. I'd rather see a collision victory in my 50 minutes game than a farewell.
My local game store had a problem with a cheater who would fake shuffling his deck and not request a cut. He ran Mycrosynth Lattice and Consulate Crackdown and players would quit after he pulled the combo. After a haitus I played again only to face him immediately and knowing his combo I let him do it, tapped for mana in response and once it happened used the mana to summon token creatures to start slapping him around. He had to destroy his own combo to try and save himself and still lost.
I was trying to think of a deck to play against a scrambleverse, how about zedruu?
I have Possibility Storm in my Rocco deck, and it really wasn’t that bad at my table. There are so many ways to cast from outside your hand now that it’s not so egregious.
Plus if you think about it, it’s gifting your opponents possibly something better than what they had. They cast a little mana dork and then all the sudden flip a stompy creature off the top.
Response to Teferi: Play a Beamtown Bullies deck and give them a leveler. Or Door to Nothingness them in your followup turn.
"I hate Expropriate, it's definitely going in the 'A' Tier... but at least White can phase out to stop it."
...
"I hate Teferi's Protection (even though it's a good response to Expropriate), it's going in 'S' Tier (later lowered to high 'A')."
...
...
Yeah. Teferi's Protection is annoying when it slows you down from your win, but it's really not a bad or devastating card.
If your opponent had to use it, you are either in a winning board state, and are still likely to win, or you were trying to go off with a combo and need to rethink if a combo failing is a vulnerability in your deck.
Only once have I lost a game against someone after they played Teferi's Protection.
How does warpworld combo with monkey cage?
I think it is important to note that, in addition to the "removal wins games" mantra, that counterspells are key. None of the spells you mention here are all that bad, as long as people are playing responsibly.
If you're in blue, obviously there is no excuse, but every color has one or two spells that interact on the stack (yes some of these ways are much jankier than others) to interact with powerful board wipes or cards that are difficult to remove. The real problem is that many many players simply do not think about playing counters or other instant speed interaction because they have become with playing so efficiently that they tap out every turn. Unfortunately this leaves you open to "get got" as they say. If this happens, the only person to blame is yourself.
Admittedly, if you are playing mono color decks, this can be difficult. However, Warping Wail is a thing and almost no one plays it. Null Elemental Blast is also available for multicolored threats. Almost no one plays it.
The only card in the entire format that I truly hate is Void Winnower. Turning off half of my deck with one card is so upsetting and I've lost to it more times than I have fingers on my hands
Some of these cards may be a little on fun but if you're running interaction with your deck they're not issues
I see most of these cards fairly regularly with my group ( I play high power edh) we don't play these cards unless it fits a certain theme. On the brightside it makes it a pretty easy decision to decide what to remove/counter
You can proliferate poison counters on a player in tef prot and kill them while they are phased out.
At least a Teferi's Protection can be used to close out a game (same with Cyclonic Rift). Farewell is most often used to slow the game to a halt because someone is behind.
Farewell is a necessary evil, sometimes everything is indestructible so you need it. Cyclonic rift is way worse because its one sided
When I had a samwise deck, I killed my friend with commander damage from pumping him with night of sweets revenge and questing beast.
Warp world sucks not necessarily because of the "chaos" factor and getting random stuff in return for what you had before. It is insanely annoying because of how long it takes to resolve. Cast it on turn 8 or 9+ and you're looking at 8 lands per player, a handful of mana rocks per player, potentially several creatures per player and maybe an enchantment or two. This could easily be 20 plus permanents PER player to resolve THEN you have ETB effects to resolve in the right order and it all turns into a nightmarish pain in the ass that takes 10 minutes to figure out because the chaos player thought it'd be "funny". Hard pass.
Warp World is essentially mass land destruction. Almost every time I see it resolve there's at least one person at the table that can no longer participate in the game in a meaningful way because either they had way fewer permanents in play when it resolved and now have access to less than half the Mana that the other players have, or else their deck just has fewer permanents in it so they don't get much from the Warp World. I would rather see someone play Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation because then they would at least be honest about what they are trying to do.
8 mana spells should have a big impact on the game
@edhdeckbuilding I never meant to imply that they shouldn't. I'm just saying that I don't see much difference from Warp World to Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation. You build your deck to break the parity of these cards so you come out in a winning situation.
I think Possibility Storm is quite fun. You just cast your cheapest spells and hope to get your biggest spells. But I guess it sucks, if you are a blue mage with a lot of counterspells between other instants. Warp World and Scrambleverse are way worse imo, taking forever to resolve and there is no strategy to the randomness.
Ive gotten a win through Teferi's once actually, with a Zinnia deck. Opponent cast it to avoid what another opponent was doing, so I made a bunch of 1/1s on my own turn, pumped Zinnia to like 28 power, played a Skullcrack for good measure and swung them out of the game.
I knew focusing in like that might cost me the overall game and it did, but I made sure they lost. Got mine more than I got got.
Commander players can be big babies
Very first card, Farewell, is a perfectly fine removal spell. 6 mana Sorcery is a fair card. Board wipes always reset the game, but that’s the point. Someone is behind and is trying to catch up. In your games, how often has someone gotten off to a fast start and is going to run away with the game and people are begging for a board wipe?
I killed all my opponents with my Phenax deck, that besides the "Big Booty Creatures" the other spells are centered in "All Opponents/Players" effects.
The one with the active Teferi's protection was the saltiest about it
I killed someone through Teferi's Protection by accident once. I was just trying to wheel for better cards to take out the archenemy.
I think people uniquely dislike PrimeTime and the idea of unbanning it over Gary because of how obnoxious Simic landfall is, mostly because wizards has a strange obsession with not printing anything to punish extra land drops. GY recursion and blink-looping both have things that hate on them, at least.
I punish extra landdrops. I have Zo-Zu the Punisher and Tunnel Ignus to do a combined 5 damage to them for each after the first. I also have Acidic Soil to do an extra damage for each Land they have afterwards because if you're going do something make sure you do it right.
Possibility Storm is the enabler of my Mishra Artificer Prodigy deck
You covered it later in the video. But like. Having a Possibility Storm in a Mishra deck isn’t just mean. It actually fits the theme.
@ Well, it basically means that you are the only person who can control what you cast. Furthermore, every spell you cast is effectively TWO spells.
As far as boardwipes go I do not mind a boardwipe if the person wins by doing it on that turn or the next turn. If they boardwipe especially if it is a one sided boardwipe and then do not win but dawdle around for the next 2-5 turns to finally grind everyone out and win that is just annoying as f*** they are less damaging when used in the early game as a quick reset to put everyone back on even footing though
Drannith Magistrate was designed to hate on Companions, yet now it exists as a general hate piece that goes against the spirit of the format.
If a card DOES NOT allow people to cast their commander, it shouldn't exist in the format if the ban list was for cards that go against that spirit.
There are few cards that make me want to scoop, but that vorinclex surely is one of them
I did not expect gary to be on the list and definitely being above fierce guardianship.
Gary needs black pips on the board to be efficient for it‘s 5 cmc and is one of the view cards rewarding a mono colored deck.
You can also kill it on etb trigger on the stack. I don‘t understand why not more people do that since most removal cards are instants.
@@sirsimon6562 Killing it while the ETB is on the stack only reduces devotion by 2. The actual threat is where it is repeatable (for mono black, graveyard recursion).
@@Dragon_FyreRest in Peace Gary. ;p
Out of all these cards i could possibly see in an EDH game. I would still rather see these cards in a game any time over the Kansas City Chiefs going to another Super Bowl...
The only card ive sworn to never use is Stasis. I dont care if anyone else uses it. I will play against anything. I will never play stasis in my decks. Its a matter of principle. Everything else is fair game in my decks. And once again, i dont mind what anyone else plays with. I will play against anything.
I feel like Warp World is S-tier problematic or D-tier. It will completely wreck an instant/sorcery deck. Turn 8 Warp World against a deck with 12 total creatures can gut their board to 3 lands, 1 utility artifact, and an instant L.
Don't know why Annie Joins Up was on the list. Must have been the first time one of your patrons played against a Panharmonicon type of effect.
Yes, this indeed is the oddest of inclusions!
I have the Precon Wizard Commander that makes creature copies for 1 and Flameshadow Conjuring that does the same but for 1 Red. I'm not allowed to play with them anymore without immediate hostility after I played Star of Extinction and used Dualcaster Mage to cast it 4 times.
I have the magistrate in one deck as a stax creature that I want to be sacrificed, the harbinger of the seas is in there for the same reason haha play more removal.
I have expropriate in my mono blue Gandalf cuz I can cast it at instant speed, which is incredibly powerful
I hate cyclonic rift more than farewell because it shows up so much more in the average game. Like, yeah, farewell is worse, but I face probably 20 rifts to 1 farewell and it just has the cumulation effect on me. Maybe even more than 20 to 1
Hey Demo, just wanted to tell you why the top of most tier lists is an S:
It comes from fighting games. Street Fighter and stuff. It started way back in the 90s as a normal list like school grades. A, B, C and so on.
While normal characters had these grades based on how strong they were, later there were secret characters - boss characters: SUPER CHARACTERS.
That's what the S stands for: Super.
Characters with basically no weaknesses and better with their strenghts than anyone else with their strenghts.
Think of not only being able to throw a fireball but being able to jump and throw two fireballs at the same time while airborne.
As fighting games evolved and secret secret characters became a thing who were even stronger than those first secret characters that were already not allowed in tournament play because they were just too strong tiers even added tiers above S: SSS and God tier.
s comes from the super tier in a lot of Japanese games where shu meaning exceptional excellent ect is the top grade given to actions in the game.
Now put them all into a single deck.
Are these truly broken though? I found a way to win turn 2 with Birgi. Though the odds are really low.
I think that T-pro is actually bad at higher powers, It’s basically putting yourself into a 1v1 against the archenemy or the player who comboed off. I think best case is you get a cheapish “extra turn”
Nor does it protect you from "I win with ThOracle."
Good point, but what if it was your boardwipe and you played Tpro? (See the problem?)
@ there is an insane number of variations that do exactly that without tpro. Heroic intervention into wrath of god, clever concealment into farewell. Tpro cannot be blamed for a play, especially since it also basically ends your turn. Cyclonic rift is literally this problem AS A SINGLE INSTANT SPEED CARD. tpro is not the problem here.
I don’t get why people hate Gary. It just a win con, people need win cons.
Idk what groups people play in but these really aren't that bad. Notion thief does get complained about a ton. A lot of these cards are just an issue of run more removal.
For the most part, I agree with your rankings here... although, for me, Sphere of Safety and Annie Joins Up wouldn't even be on this list at all!!
I disagree with the notion thief thing, tbh on its own notion thief is a good card that requires opponents to play around just like plenty of others that nobody seems to have an issue with. It dies to any creature removal, and is essentially a trap spell on a body. I think its strong but fair on its own. The only real issue is the combination with wheel effects, but plenty of good cards also have 1+2 combos that straight up win the game so what's the issue? I'm not going to say "kiki jiki is too strong on its own" because it combos with a ham sandwich, its a good card, but not insane, same as notion thief. I think the only reason people hate notion thief over something like kiki jiki is because its an interraction/stax piece and players love to whine and cry about anything even adjacent to stax.
Why did no-one suggest Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines?! That is my number one most hated card.
Looking at the list of cards basicly only 2 of these cards i would "hate" to see in a game and that is fierce guardianship (or any free counterspell) and farewell. With possiblity storm and scramble verse be runner ups mainly in situations where people use them to lock up games so no one can play.
I don’t hate any of these, let em roll
Seeing this list makes me think people haven't played against winter orb or stasis enough. If you think Vorinclex is bad...
Glad to see Drannith this low on the list. It's definitely a hatebear, and I think people just have too much of a hatred towards hatebears. Casual commander players are always saying how they want games to go longer and hate when games end quickly, but as soon as I play a Drannith, an Archon of Emeria, or a Blind Obedience, suddenly I'm the worst person in the world. If i'm able to stop you from doing some degenerate thing, why would I not do it? Opposition Agent falls into the same category.
I feel like most of the cards ranked higher on this list is just cards that interact with things your opponents are doing. If the key to magic and winning is playing more interaction, but then put all the best interaction on the "no fly zone" list, what does that really do? Letting everyone just do absurdly strong plays is how you lose games. Why would I not play Notion Thief if they're about to draw 8 cards? Do i have to play weaker, non-instant speed variants that arent as strong like spirit of the labyrinth that they can see coming? But hey, can't play either of these cards because they're "stax pieces".
i would say this list is more cards you typically see in casual commander games.
@@edhdeckbuilding Where do you draw the line at casual vs cedh? Is everything not cedh casual?
@ great question. not sure there's a good answer.
I thought it was impossible but I think you've swayed my opinion on Drannith Magistrate. I'm so tired of seeing monolith commanders, I think I'd be happy if somebody put this into play and shut down somebody's Jetmir deck... I don't know if I'll ever be ready to be the guy who plays that card, however.
I killed someone through Flare of Fortitude (commander damage) but not Teferi's Protection yet :\
You didn't mention 5 mana Elesh Norn :(. I agree with most everything you said. As someone with like 8 copies of teferi's protection I'm feeling a bit of white guilt now, though 😂
How do you hate a scrambleverse less? Homeward Path, Coveted Falcon, Brooding Saurian and Trostani Discordant. Homeward path is only creatures but it's a land so won't get stolen
@edhdeckbuilding it's non land permanents with scrambleverse, won't change control
opposition agent is a much needed tool to stop people from just tutoring all day long. i thought that would be something you would be suportif of. for me this card is the same as a drannith magistrate. if its that big of a deal for someone they should run more removal and probably play less tutors.
I really feel fine with whatever but oh boy do I hate farewell
I was kind of surprised... I guess you've not played against a good jodah deck. I'm one of those guys that always keeps removal on hand but I can never get rid of this guy. There's like always some piece of invasion that stops me from doing what I want to do with him and he literally has access to everything good. Not undefeatable I have beat one jodah deck in my time but I had to use Edgar Markov to do it...
S tier is the best of the best
@@actiondk2279 SS tier is the best of the best 😉
Honestly all the cards that read "If you control your commander you can cast for free." Are utter bad card design. No spell should ever be free. Cards like force of will have a cost your trading two cards to handle one. Its not free and more skillful to know when to do it.
I hate dranith magistrate to the point of crashing out and just devoting all my resources to ensure that the player who casts it has the least chance of winning
Hot take: I'd rather see Toxrill than OG Koma.
People is already getting cards when they wheel so treasures are better to cast the cards you already draw, also 3 mana vs 4 mana is a lot of difference you takking like they were 6+ mana cards