Another part of synergy is the room itself. Not every audiophile has a perfect listening room. You don't want bright speakers (klipsch) in a sparsely furnished room or duller speakers in a over furnished room. Married guys are at a disadvantage, wives don't want Bass traps & diffusers in their living room. A pair of speakers will sound different in different rooms. Speakers need to match the room you listen in.
The goal of the video is just to raise awareness regarding synergy. I can make many videos with specific examples and perhaps this is something I will do in the future. I made a mistake, the cd player I had was the $8k cdn Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista SACD player that died on me. Here is the link to Jay's channel ruclips.net/channel/UCG8GZMXiVDTWk8U5PnOmJcw
Thomas- Please give me your best synergy recommendation you found for the Canton 3.2 DC. Just curious what your observations were since you spent a lot of time with these speakers. I have a pair but haven't had the chance to set them up yet..
Would be perfect to get Excel sheet with synergy (X speakers good or best with X amp). For beginners tath would be a perfect to try some differences of gear.
All I remember is that I needed tube preamp to make them sound to my satisfaction as well as power. 100w was not enough. I drove it with Mcintosh 452 and it was ok, not OMG but just ok. Class D bel canto was ok too but needed the tube preamp. I think if I had my classe D200 today, it would sound even better.
My advice is to put your money and effort into speakers first for two reasons. First, from my experience the speakers improve way more going from $250 to $1000 then do amps. And nothing wrong with used equipment either. Second, you can then have a solid baseline to work from. Probably the most important thing you can do is listen to as many speakers as you can no matter what they are hooked up to or how old they are.
My definition of synergy is a bit different, it's the the pleasant outcome of different gear components to YOUR preference. What synergies with someone else is not necessarily going to synergies with you, unless you both have similar preferences. That's why I value sticking with some reviewers for a long time just to know their preferences, you can't for sure know their preferences even if they mentioned it multiple times, what they consider it neutral treble can be harsh for you and vise versa, plus not all people like natural balanced sound, a lot of people synergies components to add some flavor. Great discussion as always
The hardest part of Synergy is matching the intended equipment the the actual listening space. Or to simplify getting the right speakers to "play the room" so to speak....
great topic. lol dangerous analogy from Jay. Synergy is critical and challenging for sure. There is both electrical compatibility and sonic compatibility. First thing to understand is we all hear differently so the key is understanding how you like music to sound and then designing the system to reproduce a wide range of music to your listening taste. Second thing is to understand that everything in audio has a sonic signature, so its combining everything in front of it to complement the sonic character of the speakers you ultimately choose. So the challenge is where do you start. Now I do recommend starting with speakers but to many put to much emphasis and budget on speakers thinking they are the most important component in a audio system. That is the first mistake. Understand that yes speakers are important and do have a influence on the sound but speakers are only as good as the equipment in front of them. The detail comes from the equipment, speakers can only reproduce what they are given. Once you choose the right speakers for your listening taste and room, then is to find the right amplifier that both powers the speakers properly electrically and also complements the speakers sonically. Now you have to understand that everything else in the chain is influencing the sound so this is where it gets tricky and becomes trial and error. Dont assume its a fault with the amplifier when its really a fault with the preamplifier, and vice versa. So any good dealer will allow you to take home and try different products before final purchase. And most dealers have good to really good knowledge and what is the best choices to complement the speakers you have chosen. So between the dealer and trying different equipment you can design a system that complements the sound to the way you like to hear it. Cables will be used as the final tool to fine tune the sound.
Every time I hear a conversation about synergy , I think of the creative process ,that song "Putting it Together" by Stephen Sondheim, ...the artist who makes the music, with imagination , engineering, skills to create the cymatics the magic pattern of sound itself, ... to capture that magic in a live setting , getting it just right, resonance, vibration, doing it justice, the process & choices to find that sound stage , myriads of ways to reproduce it, "Putting it together" all the variables Impedance , Ohms, tubes or solid state, Big or Small speakers, & the room...etc...it all counts, all the bits, Putting It Together finding that magic sound stage,.the Synergy. The breath of recreating that Magic at Home. You're real good at it Thomas, a natural, always very thoughtful, I appreciate what you're doing finding the Synergy, that luck, that magic. "Bit by bit, putting it together Piece by piece, only way to make a work of art Every moment makes a contribution Every little detail plays a part Having just a vision's no solution Everything depends on execution Putting it together (That's what counts) Ounce by ounce, putting it together Small amounts, adding up to make a work of art First of all you need a good foundation Otherwise it's risky from the start Takes a lot of earnest conversation But without the proper preparation Having just a vision's no solution Everything depends on execution The art of making art, is putting it together Bit by bit"
@@ThomasAndStereo not the best song:)), but from a show about a painter, colors, creation, dimensions, feelings. .the synergy between all the equipment, wonder how the color of the room affects the sound? or the perception of it..The Color of Sound. ... Sound & light share the fundamental nature of vibration, can color affect the sound reflecting quality of a surface?, ... Spectral colors from red to violet are divided by the notes of the musical scale, maybe we have to match the right colors to our systems too who knows?, been thinking of experimenting with led lighting different color hues, paint color too, to see if it makes a difference, an ultimate room treatment, to find the right dimensional harmony, it's trippy, like the music of the spheres, the colors we see whilst listening to music does it retune or affect how we hear through our ears, perceive through our brains..? would be awesome to have different listening rooms, matching colors to the different rooms & system, or maybe just one that changes like the seasons, it'd be an experience. Beside room treatments, Could be why a piece of equip sounds different in different places, some of your friends have pronounced colors, red, green, brown in their home listening rooms? Restaurants do it.. got me curious. roelhollander.eu/en/tuning-frequency/sound-light-colour/
You guys are just great.. ..or is it synergy we see. 😀 I remember when the CD players was introduced in the 80-ties with its simple electronics for the time. Our local hi-fi store sold dedicated RCA cables from TaraLabs that were designed to roll off the top end so the CD player would not be as bright.. Just thought of that when Thomas said that if we pair bright source with bright preamp and a bright power amplifier. Then we could get a neutral sounding system.. .. and you never know until you try.. and one variable could be that the interconnects that were used were like the TaraLabs in the example above. Everything matters. 🎵 Take care!
Thanks, we have fun chatting but just not easy to get together to make videos like these. Yup, everything matters and that is interesting what that store did.
Synergy is the individual components when put together enhance each other to make the total sum greater than the individual components add up to. It's like a team of people who work well together and can achieve way more than if the individuals worked seperately.
This is spot on. One of the best sounding little systems I ever had was comprised of a Bogen RP-230 receiver, Smaller Advent speakers and a Teac cassette deck - I think my Thorens TD 160 turntable was not the in use at the time. I recall listening to many FM broadcasts that sounded SO good on that rig, I recorded a Metropolitan Opera Live broadcast of Carmen that was sounded magical. I recorded it on cassettes and enjoyed it many times. Today my amp and sources are much “better”, but the synergy with speakers is still illusive. I think I know where to go, I just have to eat a lot of ramen to get there!
That would be awsome to have some kind of blog where people give their receipe of synergy! Eeee, is that existing already? On my part, I never reached that, but i'm close.
Really enjoyed that video guys, thank you. such an important and logical yet overlooked topic. like you say a lot of people go for brand names approach plug them into their system with something that dosent match other components and give that component a bad reviews. Really Listening and understanding the sound and trying other components is such a art, hope one day to be as good as you guys.
Thanks, I think once people realize this, they will not jump to conclusion as fast. If a gear does not sound good in your system, it does not mean it does not sound good. That is also part of the reason why I don't make negative review videos cause it is possible that it is just bad synergy with what I have.
Both of you have excellent synergy on screen. I really enjoy watching this series of videos... I hope you guys keep it up!! @The Next Best Thing Studio
Very interesting subject guys. Probably raises more questions than it answers really. The only way I see you can find the right synergy is to try as many combinations of gear as possible and even then you may never find it. This is outside the realms of possibility for most of us which is why we seek out reliable reviewers such as yourselves who go the extra mile and compare products in different setups, thereby giving us less fortunate audiophiles a starting point in achieving our own hifi synergy. I guess most of us will either stumble across a great marriage or settle for a sound that we like, never knowing if it can be improved upon. As a guide I reckon you guys could put together a type of graph showing expected levels of synergy between components in audiophile systems based on your own experiences.
Hey James, I might make a video on some examples of system we put together that work. After a while, we have an idea how to start but with stereo gear, there is always surprises.
@@ThomasAndStereo I look forward to those videos Thomas. I guess the proliferation of all-in-one units tells us all we need to know about the complexities of constructing a great synergistic system with separates. By the way I'll give you an update on my Musical Paradise saga when I get a chance.
Maybe that‘s a mistake one can‘t do going active 🧐 I’d say: If you don’t want to play with inter-gear-synergy, go active. If you want to, go passive. E. g. ELAC‘s Air-X 403 is the best active speaker I have heard so far. In my ears they are way more pleasing than the prestigious Kii Three in every department despite frequencies under 40Hz. I don‘t know a single reviewer who even knows these ELACs, even though these are quite current models
"She doesn't cook..." Oh boy, I can't wait to see what kind of comments this video is going to get. 🤣🤣🤣 Good thing most audiophile channels are watched by guys. 😂😅😂😅😂😅
@@ThomasAndStereo Hey my girlfriend cooks very well and she's lovely so I'd say perfect synergy (can you please insert my voice into the video saying these exact lines)
Excellent video! Trial and error in the world of HiFi to achieve synergy can be very expensive. I do think luck has alot to do with synergy. I got lucky with Atoll amplifier with Totem Element speakers. Combination sounds really good.
I think for me it all begins with understanding what I'm looking for in sound. The issue is different music often favours a different type of sound presentation. For example for a lot of the electronic music I love a cool , fast and airy sound is best. But with with rock and metal I love warmth depth and rhythm. For classical and vocal music I want emotional content and full bodied sound. Basically it's a pain in the butt and requires extra gear. As if all this isn't bad enough you've then gotta find stuff that works together to deliver these qualities 😒 Revealing , neutral speakers seems a good place to start.
Synergy as far as audiophilia is concerned is purely emotional. Just when your hunt for new components scratches enough itches you've just about conditioned your brain to expect the best sound you've ever heard. Autosuggestion/placebo is so strong in hearing we can even fool people by telling them their hearing aids are better than they actually are. No component changes will ever amount to even a tiny bit of what acoustic treatment achieves but hey if there's a market for it folks will flock to it!
Btw, this kind of topic is very deep and it has a lot profound meanings than reviewing individual components. If you really want to level up your audiences in a long term, these kind of topic is how you would discus it. Praising individual components will simply urge some folks to buy, however they aren't likely able to reach such level of synergy or not even close, and folks will still mostly ends up with less happy audiences...
Thomas, the point I'm making here is a bit off topic, but maybe some of your other regular viewers feel the same way. It's about other audio review channels relative to yours. I've have seen recently a trend where it seems that other channels are jockeying for position, trying to placate to audiences and in some cases, even being somewhat condescending towards other channels. You have always been highly respectful in your reviews and the reason why I enjoy your reviews is that I feel a connection with your journey of experiencing a wide range of hifi gear and the impression it makes on you as well your genuine consideration about how you think others might feel about the gear. I'm not looking for you to give a physics lecture or technical dissertation. I want to know the impression the gear makes on you. The technical aspects which you do present in your reviews are not only appropriate for the majority of viewers, but also in good balance with the human experience. I don't think you need to compete with other channels. Your content stands plenty strong on its own. When it comes to successful acoustic design, equations and science will only take you so far, an artistic element is needed in order to complete the design and to make it superb. It is like a comprehension of things that can only be grasped by an organic being, not a computer. Best regards!
Thanks Taz for the comment. Always great to hear from you as your comments are well thought out and meaningful. Thanks for the encouragement. I don't really compete with others so I am not really following your comment. I am super open to constructive feedback and you can be direct with me. I 100% understand your comment to be of encouragement so that is why I like you to elaborate on it specifically as to what trigger the positive feedback.Thanks and 10000000% don't take my response in the wrong way.
@@ThomasAndStereo The point was not to suggest that your channel was or has been trying to compete with any others, rather that my impression of some of the other audio review channels is that they seem to be competing against each other and possibly somewhat against yours, even mentioning your channel in their videos (which can be a good thing or not so good thing depending on how it is referenced). I'm not opposed to friendly competition, if someone wants to be in that game, but when it begins to degenerate to something like car dealerships trying to outsell their competition, then the enjoyment of watching the reviews goes way down, for me at least and perhaps for others viewers. You have not done anything like that and I just wanted to bring some awareness to the matter (perhaps because I like purity of your work and selfishly want it to stay that way). Clearly your own passions can take the future format of the channel in different directions, which is great, and I think we all support you in those endeavors- just want those core Thomas & Stereo attributes preserved. (BTW this has nothing to do with your videos with Jay, which I thought were really good). As always, your work and response are much appreciated.
Hey guys....this isn't a complaint because I know you're aiming at a different market than me. But what I want is for somebody else to get the synergy right, and then sell it to me. You guys are in the store all day trying out many different combinations, and you seem really honest to me so I'll take your advice. You should start with three basic questions: 1) How do you like your music? 2) What are your sources? 3) What's the upper limit of your budget? I'll be pleased to answer any sub-questions, like what size room I have, do I listen mostly loud or soft; rock? acoustic? opera? Whatever. Then when you know those answers, you can say, "Here's the set-up that all our experience and expertise teaches us will have the synergy you like." For a reviewer, you can't help us individually like an in-store advisor can, so you'd have to go by categories of listening preferences within each budget. Then you would use your expertise to match components for that preference and total cost. "If you like your music slightly bright and you have x-dollars to spend, you should try the _____ model xxx amp with __________ model yyy speakers, and turntable model blah-blah." That kind of specific advice would help me a lot.
I actually made this proposal to a store. I asked them to setup systems that have good synergy and I go in to talk about it. For example, "I have $1k, I listen to A, B, C kind of music. My listening profile is.... can you recommend a synergestic system? " Will see if I will ever make that video.
You two work so well together, too bad you live so far apart. BTW, thanks so much, this video was highly educational for me. I've never thought that much about synergy and how important it is. I feel like this has opened a whole new approach to good audio for me.
Yes, it is so important that if you ever had the chance to test gear like I do, you will quickly realized that there is no 'bad' gear, it is just a question if they match or not.
Hi Thomas always enjoy your take on things, I found when I started my journey some 35lyrs ago matching different components was a nightmare no internet just magazines etc and after buying my turntable (still using it) I ended up buying my amps preamp and speakers all from the same manufacturer I still have the same system today only this Yr i decided to try some new interconnects and a couple of rel subs mostly down to moving to a new home which changed the sound of the system and doing this my system sound is back to how it used to be anyway my take on this is mixing and matching can be a long and difficult journey and you may never be happy so don't overlook using a 1 name solution if possible thanks. Jim
Once married a beautiful girl, didn't cook or clean. Was obsessed w/ her appearance. Didn't last long. I agree what you say about synergy. you should make it a part of your reviews.weather its speakers, amps or whatever. See how well they synergize together.
In chemistry, synergy is when the sum of the parts are greater than expected, i.e. 1+1=3. The same applies to hi-fi. As you said, you can buy the best in class of everything and still have no magic. Conversely, there are real deals to be had when you find gear that works well together. My system has been transformed in the last 3 months by a PS Audio power regenerator, Silnote interconnect (Poseidon Sig II) and speaker cables (Anniversary II) and a Curious Evolved USB cable.
Thomas, you did a segment a while back at a friend's house. This guy buys a lot of his stuff 2nd hand and you were raving about how good his system sounds. I think that friend of yours has a knack for synergy.
Oh yes, we spend a lot of afternoons together trying different combos. My friend who owns a lot of vintage gear, now he is master at that. I like to make some videos on his different systems to showcase the logic behind how he pairs each system.
Very nice video and excellent topic. My wish will be for experienced reviewers like you to show us more complete systems for 1k, 2k, 3k, 5k, 10k,... Where you found synergies. Don't forget nothing, even the cables lol. Thanks
@@ThomasAndStereo speaking of synergies. I recently purchased the ATOLL IN30. I used it as a preamp for my powered speakers. It was amazing. I decided to try the elac debut 2 b5.2 with it and I was disappointed. No bass at all. Not even the boomy kind. Is there a problem with the elac 2 b5.2 in the bass ?
@@yannick930 I never heard the b5.2 but I had the 6.2. The more power you give it, the more bass you will get. I drove it with 200+ watt and bass was ok. Ideally a minimum of 100w give the Elac are not that efficient too.
@@ThomasAndStereo Someone helped me with the issue : it was out of phase. The amp or the speakers. i switched the + and - wire and it fixed it. (Power cord issue i presume, i'll deal with it later). But for the moment the Atoll seems fine, only 3 green light to bring it loud enough for me. It's for a small room. Thanks for the advice. I'll upgrade later for the IN200. Experience the difference that more power does. For the moment i'll get the Klipsch RP600m too, just to experiment what Jay and you experiment. (New "audiophile") i don't wanna invest big yet. I wanna learn first what i like? Have you played with the taga harmony hta-700 ? It's a tube amp and pre-amp, the V3 is coming soon (it's entry level but people say that it's good for the price :)
my two 2 cents on it is this. Yes super saiyen synergy is hard and luck sort of has part to do with it, but here are a few leads to try to find the best match. First ask the designer what gear they used to design their equipment with, that will be a good start. In the case of your JBL it is very likely it was designed around vintage Mcintosh. Also, as a former dealer I have to say that a good dealer (and I know not all of them are) knows synergy. That accidental stuff happens more in the store when you have all of the gear in the store to try out and a good dealer will know what will play way based on technical requirements and sonic signature. That being said I would say there are a few products I can say played well and added synergy for almost any item I put it on, and believe it or not cables and power conditioners when done correctly do that really well. My favorite were Isotek line conditioners, Audience line conditioners, and AU24e (Now AU24sx) those products sounded good on almost any gear you put them on and added synergy to everything.
You are right about stores able to mix and match stuff to find good synergy. That is why we need more stores back! Thanks for the info on the line conditioners. Cable matching makes a difference, yup!
I couldnt agree more:) experience, knowledge,audiophile friends, and a bit of luck:) and i would add to create synergy i think is start by your speakers Then source preamp and last amp. Not the other way around. Less complicated and less expensive:)
Here’s my experience in shaping my system over almost two years in order to get the sound I wanted: R-2R DAC + powerful tube amp + some tube rolling + subs + speaker toe-in and height adjustment + some room treatment = warm and lush sounding KEF LS50s (that are often called too bright by many people)
dennem Not sure about your experience, but my vintage r2r dac made my system less harsh than my sd dacs (have tried 10 medium priced dac units so far). My diy vintage JBL monitors (think L300 plus) are much smoother with r2r dac even with solid state amps (Bryston). It finally took a capacitor upgrade to speaker bypass caps to get it right. After 35 years I finally have the sound I want (for now!).
@@kirarittberg5088 Well I think that is my point. Not all R2R dac will 'react' the same to a system. In some system, it will sound smooth while others harsh. Regardless, congrats on getting the sound you want and that is the most important.
Thomas & Stereo I don’t think it’s going to help anybody, since it’s been a lot of trial and error seeking the sound that suits my taste. I believe building a system is very personal process and everyone should to go through their own experience. Other people’s opinions and reviews should only be used as initial guideline. At the moment my amplification costs way more than the speakers: - DAC Denafrips Ares II in NOS mode - preamp Rogue Audio RP-1 with Mullard 12AU7 1960s tubes - power amp PrimaLuna Premium HP with KT150 tubes - KEF LS50s plus a pair of REL T5i subs Dedicated listening room and Cardas method speaker placement - nothing will sound as good as it can without proper speaker placement.
Yes it is not easy to get it locked in. After many different equipment pieces in my system, my find was. Vandersteen 5, Aesthetix preamp, vtl st150 , Burson dac silver wire diy, thorens 125 / DENON 103 / pass lab phono diy . Fails were, moon audio power and preamp, audio research, Bryston shindo , krell , museatex, don’t get me wrong all these companies make really good sounding equipment but it did not click in. There were others that I actually forgot now because they were forgettable. There are a number of companies want to do a full system from a to B which I kind of like the idea of that you don’t have to go mess round to get some synergy
in the "Quest for Synergy" using 30+ amplifiers /equipment .... Along the way, I would wonder if certain speakers are simply not capable of achieving "Synergy". What makes you believe your equipment is capable of reaching Synergy??? What makes you believe a certain speaker is worth the effort ??
Trial and error. After a while, you will develop a certain confidence that if you try enough, you will get decent result with most products. Synergy in audio is one of those thing where once you achieve it, 'you know'
@@ThomasAndStereo Why were the Earthquake Titans worth the pursuit of Synergy to begin with?? What makes a speaker qualify for the pursuit of Synergy to begin with??
Hi Thomas, I've learned so much watching your reviews, thank you! I'm looking to put my first system together, and trying to choose an integrated amp under $1500 that will provide the best synergy to pair with Klipsch RP-8000F speakers. A few I'm considering are the Outlaw Audio RR2160, Denon PMA-800NE, Cambridge CXA61, and NAD C316BEE V2. But, I'm totally open to any amp, and would really appreciate any thoughts or recommendations you might have.
I am an beginner audiophile and I think I know what the answer to this is going to be. Tadadadadadadaaaa : it's the all-in-one systems. I have no money, nor the time nor patience to try out 30 AMPLIFIERS WITH MY SPEAKERS. Let the specialists do that at their lab. I need to rock and roll and to enjoy. Setting up one amp takes a time, then there are different cables, sources and recordings to consider, not to mention break in, warm up, vibration etc. All-in-one will be the way of the future.
Here's one example. I recently made a system with really good components and yet the sound was not engaging or impressive. I changed one cable and it was transformed and magical sounding. That sounds extreme and some people don't "get" the importance of cables and yet the system went from boring to superb.
Love these videos thanks. Currently looking for an affordable int. amp to go with my denon avr to just drive my front elac b2 2.0 for music. I know they can sound better.
Amp and preamp are the first things to synergize. I have a Bryston 4b sst that does not sound right because it doesn't have its own preamp. Not good , might sell it.
Hi Guys, I take a chance.. I have Focal Aria 936, and I plan to buy a Primaluna Evo 400 preamp, and I'm looking to the best match possible for the amplifier, I heard that Bryston 4b3 is an excellent match with this preamp... I'm looking also for the wyred4sound ST-500 mkii....but I cannot find nothing on the web for amp synergie with evo preamp.. do you have something to say about ? anything can help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance
I was thinking "luck," and Thomas says "luck." Then I was thinking about knowing when to quit. A big part of that, for me, is being willing and able to trust my own ears.
I'm thankful that you brought up this topic because of its importance, but I'm bothered greatly by Thomas mentioning that there are guidelines, but not really explaining what the guidelines are. I think you need to revisit the topic and speak more about these guidelines. For example, is it true that gear from the same company will most likely match well? I'm asking mostly for me, because I took a chance on the Musical Paradise MP-301 tube amp and found I really liked its sound. This encouraged me to also try their MP-D1 dac and MBerry Music Server. I assumed that they would work well together and I like the analog and musical sound that it gives to my digital music files. The combo also has good sound stage. I do feel that I need to match it with better speakers, but am finding it hard to unearth info on which speakers would match well, as there aren't too many reviews of Musical Paradise products. Right now I have Monitor Audio Bronze 2, but would like to do better. I'm not really sure what better would be, and I live in a location where auditioning is impossible. I know that many people use Tekton M-lores with the MP-301 amp, and am wondering if they would match better than what I now have, or is there an even better choice? Or do I already have a good match with the Bronze 2s?
Yeah, I was thinking to make videos with specific examples at Mr Vintage home. I was going to go into the specifics down to what music sounds good with what specific system at his place. Something to do in the future. Yeah, what speakers will match well with the MP301? I think that is what forums are good for. We know Tekton M-Lores seems to have some success for example. I would ask Mr vintage what success he had with his speaker eventually.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks, Thomas. That proposed video does sound like a lot of work. if it was me, I would try to summarize general pointers rather than too many specifics. As to the MP-301, I have found a lot of forums that talk about tube rolling and mods for the amp, but hardly any that get into speakers, except for mentioning the M-Lores or Klipsch, and I'm not keen on klipsch.
Dennis Wade .You will need high efficiency speakers of 90db or greater. I would look at good vintage floor standing speakers if you have the space and don't intend on using a sub.
@@kirarittberg5088 Yeah, the bronze 2s are 90db and actually sound good. The amp drives them very well . I guess I'm just speculating about whether something else would sound better.
So there are all of these audiophiles that have achieved synergy. I've searched, but came up with almost nothing. Why isn't there a list somewhere with components that mate well with loudspeakers and each other? I think it's crazy that I'm paying these prices and not getting much information on how they work. I just want to buy the best sound system that I can afford. But I keep running into roadblocks. It just seems, to me, that at these prices, I should be getting more advice/info. Why don't speaker companies give you a list of brands/amps that marry well with their speakers? What amp should I use with my Dali Zensor 3s? I stream through my pc and a Schiit Modi Uber 2 dac. I'm terrified that I'm going to get a bad match because I don't know any better, I have nothing to compare it. I don't have any audiophile friends and there are no dealers close to me. I've been at this for almost a year and feel like the more I learn, the less I know. Don't even get me started on cables, I'll worry about that later. One problem at a time.
You usually would use forums for that. Perhaps the Dali speaker is not popular here in the states so you don't have a lot of info on it. You cannot guess if an amp match well or not, you need to try it and that is why forums with owners contributing is so important.
@@ThomasAndStereo I guess reading through the forums and reviews, RUclips, etc, for hours everyday is just my life now. Thanks for all the comparisons you do.
Is your soundstage wider than your room ? Or deeper than the distance from the wall to the front baffle? Can you talk about the synergy between your rig and your room. Its easy enough to add a carpet, or some acoustic panels, but you can't move your walls...
No, you have to move yourself in relation to the speakers. Or move speaker in relation to the back wall. Wide soundstage also has to do with phasing. ruclips.net/video/F_A2RSqjm1U/видео.html
I think this is a much more advanced topic and even veterans seem to make these mistakes. Beginner mistakes are a lot more different. Synergy is a deep deep rabbit hole that beginners should not get into. There are a lot of smaller and easier things to focus on and make your system sound better.
Sure, you are right and I think beginners should still be aware of such a thing. That way, when they buy something based on a review, they have to be aware of the fact that it can sound 'different' at their home due to different gear.
@@ThomasAndStereo I think there are a lot of other things they can start with because synergy is such a broad subject and 1 question about which speakers synergize with what equipment can put them off at the whole audiophile journey as they will get 10 different answers. And questions like these also lead to people starting to recommend other systems and speakers rather than the one the buyer already has. Which starts making them second guess if they even bought the right speakers in the first place. I think you should change the name of the title and make it more focused to Synergy in a system as opposed to beginners as this will just make them even more confused on what to do.
this are very funny and interesting stories, but, souldn't be more all in one speakers? i mean, the manufacturer should be known about the capabilities of their speakers and how to amp/pair it well
My idea of great equipment is stuff that's super durable and reliable, and sounds good enough that I'd need an A/B comparison to hear the flaws compared to something 10x as expensive. So I have high standards for stereo gear. When it comes to women, for me a 10 is someone who is not a picky eater. You don't need to like everything, but at least try it!
Synergy occurs when a system is better than the sum of it's parts. The combination of all the components elevates the sound beyond what should be expected. I'll have to think about what it means in Jay terms.
Thomas, Good topic, but hard to advise about. Are you sure that was an MP cd you had, I am not aware of any MP CD player or anything from Musical Paradise with such a lofty price tag. After 50 years of improving my audio systems I have found synergy is attained when your better half approves of your gear purchases, no waf (wife approval factor) no synergy! So simple!
Let's talk dinnergy... PS. Rather like...er... stumbling across the right woman🙀, great systems are love at first sight (sound) and there is no mistaking it. When you hear a system that is working to all its strengths and all the parts are complementing each other, something special can happen. (Wedding bells). In 40 years ( in the audio industry) I can count on one hand the number of truly great systems heard. Thousands of very good ones, but not many extraordinary ones. You need to get to know your equipment - a bit of a cliche, but for example: I love Quad 57s and if you use a nice valve amp they will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. I have yet to hear a transistor amp do what those valves manage. Or, A line level system can often be transformed by replacing the preamp with just a volume pot - as you know. Going from a boring flat and lifeless sound to a big exciting one. Simplicity and minimalism is a good way to go, and eases effects of dinnergy. There is no problem with dinnergy if you take that part out. In my experience, the electronics are often the make or break items, the parts that can transform the listening experience. The other parts are arguably more important as they are responsible for the whole character and ultimate quality of the system. Just that the whole thing can topple with poor electronics...or to be kind to the likes of Krell (replaced by a volume pot with excellent results) - badly matched components. Often ignored is checking cables and set up. I have had a terrible time trying to make a system sound good when there has been a crappy interconnect cable with a dodgy ground etc. Any fault or bad connection can ruin your day. Spend some time checking cables, nuts and bolts etc. and sometimes you get your synergy for free. Edit: Or as many are saying..Luck!
Thank you for this really nicely written comment. I hope others will get to read it too. I am very moved that many people with lots of real life experiences and knowledge watch and contribute to a small channel like mine.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you for the lovely reply. I think you are developing a wonderful channel and you will not have to be so modest in the future...Quality always wins.
Off topic There are actually songs which go like "Girl...I hope you can cook". Bi amping with two different amplifiers. Or 4 mono blocks. The combination is endless. Search for perfect synergy is endless. Stop the madness
You put together all the top, best soccer players and goal keeper as one team, result is ..... we have seen that before, they can't win a game. There is no synergy!
Heres the truth. If you want synergy 1/ Stop buying hifi mags. They dont help . They just give you an audiophile inferiority complex. 2/ Stop listening to Audiophile Musak. 3/ Make sure your room is nice & habitable 4/ Play a few tunes you previously considered bad sound quality. 5/ Dont expect to be blown over immediately. Take your time to listen 6/ Get the vocals right the system will fall into place. 7/ Build within the room space.
Harman Kardon 730 receiver and Epicure M100 speakers, blew me away many years ago. With a Pioneer Pl-50 to play albums. Can be had for very little money.
Have to agree. Often it is almost accidental. Let me give a vintage example. I had an old set of Boston Acoustics A100s. Nothing Hi-End or that special but designed by an apprentice of Henry Kloss and one of the founders of Boston Acoustics. This speaker, in fact, was designed to compete and possibly surpass Kloss's own original Large Advent. The long and the short. I bought a pair, cheap, on CL. Brought them home and ran them on a number of different vintage amps/receivers. Flat, lifeless, not very dynamic. Not impressive. After a few weeks of not playing with these. I got an old Kenwood, dual power supply, mono design integrated. A very nice piece and one of the better Kenwoods from the 70s. So, I hook the Bostons up to this and WOW! A totally different speaker. Full, more bass, huge increase in imaging, smooth midrange. More musical than ever. Night and day difference! Shocking! Why? Who knows. I can't explain why this happened but I continue to run that combo in my basement system. Can it compete with lots of the gear you boys review? No. But for music listening, it's smooth as butter. Not the most detail, not the most transient. Not the best high end. Not the most bass. Not the tightest bass, and so on. But WHO CARES! Because it is so enjoyable that anyone who listens to it can appreciate, and only a picky audiophile who is NOT listening to the music but to the GEAR can knock it. As for me, I do not LISTEN to GEAR. I listen to music, lol! The same thing is true with my Jolida tube amp. This did not sound good with a pair of large speakers I had. But when I put them on an old set of JBL L80ts! OMG! Big, full, fat, dynamic sound! Of course I was also running the Jolida tube CD player with this system! There are other examples!
Thanks, I 100% understand the examples you shared cause we get that kind of experience too. Sometimes it is not necessary the most expensive gear that plays well but the right gear. I remember this cd player Mr Kanta had, it was a few hundred dollars that cd player so not super high end. For some reason, it worked AMAZING with a $1 interconnect cable than his $1k+ cable.
That's why I am using my tube pre and the pre2p with my belcantos without tube the soundstage is gone and doll also my schiit Mani gives a nice boost too compared to the phone in the pre2p
@@ThomasAndStereo Also; solid core interconnects/ speaker cables!... Stranded cable vs solid core is a world of difference , well, to me it is easily heard. Especially in volume/ gain! What material is used =which synergy works best on that specific system .It could be something you do not need at all. You might need the opposite. That being said ; only single core cables will give you more 'true' and more 'honest' differences. And don't fall for the engineering perspective.That is a stupid rabbithole discussion. The less junk in the signal path (stranded vs solid core) the more true your response will be. Sound is absolute.It's the gear and cables that are relative. Electricity is only a part of the sound.
Proof of synergy is when you look at people like Thomas, Sean etc and their wives. If not for the synergy in their partnership we would not be able to see these YT channels. 😬 Synergy is true but you got Harbeth and Harbeth User Group diehards who say there is no such thing. Harbeth says their speakers are equipment agnostic. Try a Harbeth with something like a Audiolab 82000a. It will sound crappy.
Thomas & Stereo ... I kid you not. Alan Shaw and his cohorts there aren’t very fond of tube amps too. Why use an amp that has distortion. That’s why I stopped going to that forum.
Yes Thomas it was a very good tale and very anti climatic. The CD player manufacturer should repair it free of charge just for the publicity value alone. Lol.
Sadly I have never hear a perfect or a total synergic system before, there are always something that I can pick on in a system, and I am not able to reach full happiness most of the time, and unlikely I will have all the resources I need to try everything out. :-( Most of the gears you guys mentioned are old, therefore it is very hard to reproduce any of these experience. I would love to have one or few lists of the modern components that defines synergy from your perspective, until then we can be really in the same page on this. On the other hand, Zero Fidelity has made a video about an affordable desktop setup that has good synergy(but I am not interested in building a desktop setup). Also Thomas you mentioned Cayin pair with LRS is an end game setup sounds also promising. However I am still not totally sure what tubes your friends swap with. But definitely that was also a great hint to us!
Thomas & Stereo that’s cool, I’m a late bloomer Dragonball Z fan. Hate to think how much money I could have put towards a new pair of speakers and amplifier, instead of spending money on DBZ Funko Pops! 😂
Hi I don't use them myself but I know Steve guttenberg says use tone controls if u need them schitt make a good cheap one just remember most tone controls are best used by cutting the treble or bass not adding gain for best results, hope that helps.
Sure, class D amp, in this case is no different than class AB. You can adjust it with tone control. I am about to review the Schiit Loki equalizer in a week or 2.
@@netnakul well, there is also many other things such as fluidity, speed, dynamics, control, seperation, sounstage and so forth that cannot be done by tone control.
Thomas you talk a lot about this gear with that gear and this sounds better than that so on so forth. Sound is subjective. The entire topic of audiophile judging sound is flawed because each person perceived sound differently. What’s good for one may be bad for another. A lot of terms used to describe sound from audiophiles don’t really clearly describe the sound because unlike video or pictures sounds is very hard to be visualized or imagined. So synergy is also a subjective topic so how can you say beginners get synergy wrong? What’s wrong for you may be right for someone else. Also cables don’t change sound. The difference is probably measurable with equipments but very unlikely that human ear can pick that up. Also Thomas as you age... you hearing changes. The human ear also on average can only capture between 20-20khz so why are some of your reviews talk about higher frequencies and how you can hear them? Is that a super natural ability?
Well, I did not say beginners get synergy wrong but rather I said many beginners are not aware of such a thing. Some would buy the KEF LS50 for example, bring it home and find it too bright then concluding it sucks without realizing a change in amp will solve the problem. A speaker will sound drastically different from one amp to another. We actually covered the difference between synergy and taste in the original video but I edited it out since it was too long. It is 2 different thing and I have been talking about a question of taste a lot on my channel so I am 100% aware of it. Check out my video on 'what speaker to buy. 'Taste is a question of priorities.
you two have great synergy !! great video
One of them cooks and one of them is not pretty 😝
Another part of synergy is the room itself. Not every audiophile has a perfect listening room. You don't want bright speakers (klipsch) in a sparsely furnished room or duller speakers in a over furnished room. Married guys are at a disadvantage, wives don't want Bass traps & diffusers in their living room. A pair of speakers will sound different in different rooms. Speakers need to match the room you listen in.
The goal of the video is just to raise awareness regarding synergy.
I can make many videos with specific examples and perhaps this is something I will do in the future. I made a mistake, the cd player I had was the $8k cdn Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista SACD player that died on me.
Here is the link to Jay's channel
ruclips.net/channel/UCG8GZMXiVDTWk8U5PnOmJcw
Please do, looking forward to it, not a lot of stereo stores in some places, all the possible equipment combinations, youtube is our listening room.
Thomas- Please give me your best synergy recommendation you found for the Canton 3.2 DC. Just curious what your observations were since you spent a lot of time with these speakers. I have a pair but haven't had the chance to set them up yet..
Would be perfect to get Excel sheet with synergy (X speakers good or best with X amp). For beginners tath would be a perfect to try some differences of gear.
All I remember is that I needed tube preamp to make them sound to my satisfaction as well as power. 100w was not enough. I drove it with Mcintosh 452 and it was ok, not OMG but just ok. Class D bel canto was ok too but needed the tube preamp. I think if I had my classe D200 today, it would sound even better.
@@ThomasAndStereo Awesome. I'm going to try the following Peachtree 220SE, Mcintosh MA6300 Integrated using a Burson DAC and Marantz SACD 8005.
All I know is if you're auditioning two pairs of speakers, DON"T buy the cheaper ones even if it's "almost" as good, you will deeply regret it!
Agree, but in the end it won't matter since you will still get bit along the way by the "upgrade bug"..
My advice is to put your money and effort into speakers first for two reasons. First, from my experience the speakers improve way more going from $250 to $1000 then do amps. And nothing wrong with used equipment either. Second, you can then have a solid baseline to work from.
Probably the most important thing you can do is listen to as many speakers as you can no matter what they are hooked up to or how old they are.
My definition of synergy is a bit different, it's the the pleasant outcome of different gear components to YOUR preference.
What synergies with someone else is not necessarily going to synergies with you, unless you both have similar preferences. That's why I value sticking with some reviewers for a long time just to know their preferences, you can't for sure know their preferences even if they mentioned it multiple times, what they consider it neutral treble can be harsh for you and vise versa, plus not all people like natural balanced sound, a lot of people synergies components to add some flavor.
Great discussion as always
Ah, nicely said. True, it all depends on taste too. I should have mentioned that in the video!
The hardest part of Synergy is matching the intended equipment the the actual listening space. Or to simplify getting the right speakers to "play the room" so to speak....
You guys are the perfect match ..er synergy made in audio heaven!! Thanks for a truly thought provoking subject.
A word not used often enough with a broad definition indeed. Man i love you videos, a lot of good points and different perspectives.
Thanks, I try to get people thinking in my videos.
great topic. lol dangerous analogy from Jay. Synergy is critical and challenging for sure. There is both electrical compatibility and sonic compatibility. First thing to understand is we all hear differently so the key is understanding how you like music to sound and then designing the system to reproduce a wide range of music to your listening taste. Second thing is to understand that everything in audio has a sonic signature, so its combining everything in front of it to complement the sonic character of the speakers you ultimately choose. So the challenge is where do you start. Now I do recommend starting with speakers but to many put to much emphasis and budget on speakers thinking they are the most important component in a audio system. That is the first mistake. Understand that yes speakers are important and do have a influence on the sound but speakers are only as good as the equipment in front of them. The detail comes from the equipment, speakers can only reproduce what they are given. Once you choose the right speakers for your listening taste and room, then is to find the right amplifier that both powers the speakers properly electrically and also complements the speakers sonically. Now you have to understand that everything else in the chain is influencing the sound so this is where it gets tricky and becomes trial and error. Dont assume its a fault with the amplifier when its really a fault with the preamplifier, and vice versa. So any good dealer will allow you to take home and try different products before final purchase. And most dealers have good to really good knowledge and what is the best choices to complement the speakers you have chosen. So between the dealer and trying different equipment you can design a system that complements the sound to the way you like to hear it. Cables will be used as the final tool to fine tune the sound.
Thanks Kevin for sharing your experience. My own experience also tells me to put a lot in the front end too.
Every time I hear a conversation about synergy , I think of the creative process ,that song "Putting it Together" by Stephen Sondheim, ...the artist who makes the music, with imagination , engineering, skills to create the cymatics the magic pattern of sound itself, ... to capture that magic in a live setting , getting it just right, resonance, vibration, doing it justice, the process & choices to find that sound stage , myriads of ways to reproduce it, "Putting it together" all the variables Impedance , Ohms, tubes or solid state, Big or Small speakers, & the room...etc...it all counts, all the bits, Putting It Together finding that magic sound stage,.the Synergy. The breath of recreating that Magic at Home. You're real good at it Thomas, a natural, always very thoughtful, I appreciate what you're doing finding the Synergy, that luck, that magic.
"Bit by bit, putting it together
Piece by piece, only way to make a work of art
Every moment makes a contribution
Every little detail plays a part
Having just a vision's no solution
Everything depends on execution
Putting it together (That's what counts)
Ounce by ounce, putting it together
Small amounts, adding up to make a work of art
First of all you need a good foundation
Otherwise it's risky from the start
Takes a lot of earnest conversation
But without the proper preparation
Having just a vision's no solution
Everything depends on execution
The art of making art, is putting it together
Bit by bit"
Nice, thanks for sharing this. Let me go look for that song. You are right, all the elements count when building a system.
@@ThomasAndStereo not the best song:)), but from a show about a painter, colors, creation, dimensions, feelings. .the synergy between all the equipment, wonder how the color of the room affects the sound? or the perception of it..The Color of Sound. ... Sound & light share the fundamental nature of vibration, can color affect the sound reflecting quality of a surface?, ... Spectral colors from red to violet are divided by the notes of the musical scale, maybe we have to match the right colors to our systems too who knows?, been thinking of experimenting with led lighting different color hues, paint color too, to see if it makes a difference, an ultimate room treatment, to find the right dimensional harmony, it's trippy, like the music of the spheres, the colors we see whilst listening to music does it retune or affect how we hear through our ears, perceive through our brains..? would be awesome to have different listening rooms, matching colors to the different rooms & system, or maybe just one that changes like the seasons, it'd be an experience. Beside room treatments, Could be why a piece of equip sounds different in different places, some of your friends have pronounced colors, red, green, brown in their home listening rooms? Restaurants do it.. got me curious. roelhollander.eu/en/tuning-frequency/sound-light-colour/
You guys are just great.. ..or is it synergy we see. 😀
I remember when the CD players was introduced in the 80-ties with its simple electronics for the time. Our local hi-fi store sold dedicated RCA cables from TaraLabs that were designed to roll off the top end so the CD player would not be as bright..
Just thought of that when Thomas said that if we pair bright source with bright preamp and a bright power amplifier. Then we could get a neutral sounding system.. .. and you never know until you try.. and one variable could be that the interconnects that were used were like the TaraLabs in the example above.
Everything matters. 🎵
Take care!
Thanks, we have fun chatting but just not easy to get together to make videos like these. Yup, everything matters and that is interesting what that store did.
Synergy is the individual components when put together enhance each other to make the total sum greater than the individual components add up to.
It's like a team of people who work well together and can achieve way more than if the individuals worked seperately.
Well said and people who have experienced it in their system can easily relate.
Let the Synergy God be on your side
Live long and synergetic! lol....
This is spot on. One of the best sounding little systems I ever had was comprised of a Bogen RP-230 receiver, Smaller Advent speakers and a Teac cassette deck - I think my Thorens TD 160 turntable was not the in use at the time. I recall listening to many FM broadcasts that sounded SO good on that rig, I recorded a Metropolitan Opera Live broadcast of Carmen that was sounded magical. I recorded it on cassettes and enjoyed it many times.
Today my amp and sources are much “better”, but the synergy with speakers is still illusive. I think I know where to go, I just have to eat a lot of ramen to get there!
HAHAHA...moral of the story, eat lots of instant noodles. Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience.
I didn’t know you guys had another joint video left up your sleeve. Well done! Thank you.
Thanks, yeah we did 3 videos together...finished like 1am I think.
That would be awsome to have some kind of blog where people give their receipe of synergy! Eeee, is that existing already? On my part, I never reached that, but i'm close.
Really enjoyed that video guys, thank you. such an important and logical yet overlooked topic. like you say a lot of people go for brand names approach plug them into their system with something that dosent match other components and give that component a bad reviews. Really Listening and understanding the sound and trying other components is such a art, hope one day to be as good as you guys.
Thanks, I think once people realize this, they will not jump to conclusion as fast. If a gear does not sound good in your system, it does not mean it does not sound good. That is also part of the reason why I don't make negative review videos cause it is possible that it is just bad synergy with what I have.
Both of you have excellent synergy on screen. I really enjoy watching this series of videos... I hope you guys keep it up!! @The Next Best Thing Studio
Very interesting subject guys. Probably raises more questions than it answers really. The only way I see you can find the right synergy is to try as many combinations of gear as possible and even then you may never find it. This is outside the realms of possibility for most of us which is why we seek out reliable reviewers such as yourselves who go the extra mile and compare products in different setups, thereby giving us less fortunate audiophiles a starting point in achieving our own hifi synergy. I guess most of us will either stumble across a great marriage or settle for a sound that we like, never knowing if it can be improved upon. As a guide I reckon you guys could put together a type of graph showing expected levels of synergy between components in audiophile systems based on your own experiences.
Hey James, I might make a video on some examples of system we put together that work. After a while, we have an idea how to start but with stereo gear, there is always surprises.
@@ThomasAndStereo I look forward to those videos Thomas. I guess the proliferation of all-in-one units tells us all we need to know about the complexities of constructing a great synergistic system with separates. By the way I'll give you an update on my Musical Paradise saga when I get a chance.
Maybe that‘s a mistake one can‘t do going active 🧐
I’d say: If you don’t want to play with inter-gear-synergy, go active. If you want to, go passive. E. g. ELAC‘s Air-X 403 is the best active speaker I have heard so far. In my ears they are way more pleasing than the prestigious Kii Three in every department despite frequencies under 40Hz. I don‘t know a single reviewer who even knows these ELACs, even though these are quite current models
Elac air are that good? I remember hearing some at the toronto show but not sure it was that model. It was VERY impressive.
Thomas & Stereo They are amazing. Smooth airyness in the highs and mids. Precise imaging. Quick bass. And fantastic at low volume, too.
"She doesn't cook..." Oh boy, I can't wait to see what kind of comments this video is going to get. 🤣🤣🤣
Good thing most audiophile channels are watched by guys.
😂😅😂😅😂😅
Lol. I hope his girlfriend does not see this video.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hey my girlfriend cooks very well and she's lovely so I'd say perfect synergy (can you please insert my voice into the video saying these exact lines)
Hopefully the Me Too movment never see this video!
@@Jayiyagi The hole is deep enough. You should stop digging... "now". 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not the best metaphor to go with in that situation 😂
“Synergy is difficult to get” 🤣🤣🤣 Very true my man, very true. I’d say you two are a good match. Keep up the great work!
Much appreciated
Excellent video! Trial and error in the world of HiFi to achieve synergy can be very expensive. I do think luck has alot to do with synergy. I got lucky with Atoll amplifier with Totem Element speakers. Combination sounds really good.
Congrats on a great combo! Yeah, a bit of luck is needed.
That the synergy be with you !! Young Padawan 🤘
I think for me it all begins with understanding what I'm looking for in sound. The issue is different music often favours a different type of sound presentation. For example for a lot of the electronic music I love a cool , fast and airy sound is best. But with with rock and metal I love warmth depth and rhythm. For classical and vocal music I want emotional content and full bodied sound. Basically it's a pain in the butt and requires extra gear. As if all this isn't bad enough you've then gotta find stuff that works together to deliver these qualities 😒
Revealing , neutral speakers seems a good place to start.
Yup, that is why you need 3 systems at your home !
Synergy as far as audiophilia is concerned is purely emotional. Just when your hunt for new components scratches enough itches you've just about conditioned your brain to expect the best sound you've ever heard.
Autosuggestion/placebo is so strong in hearing we can even fool people by telling them their hearing aids are better than they actually are.
No component changes will ever amount to even a tiny bit of what acoustic treatment achieves but hey if there's a market for it folks will flock to it!
Btw, this kind of topic is very deep and it has a lot profound meanings than reviewing individual components. If you really want to level up your audiences in a long term, these kind of topic is how you would discus it. Praising individual components will simply urge some folks to buy, however they aren't likely able to reach such level of synergy or not even close, and folks will still mostly ends up with less happy audiences...
Yeah, I prefer these kind of videos myself. Just that I have so many things in for review that I have no time for these kind of videos.
Thomas, the point I'm making here is a bit off topic, but maybe some of your other regular viewers feel the same way. It's about other audio review channels relative to yours. I've have seen recently a trend where it seems that other channels are jockeying for position, trying to placate to audiences and in some cases, even being somewhat condescending towards other channels. You have always been highly respectful in your reviews and the reason why I enjoy your reviews is that I feel a connection with your journey of experiencing a wide range of hifi gear and the impression it makes on you as well your genuine consideration about how you think others might feel about the gear. I'm not looking for you to give a physics lecture or technical dissertation. I want to know the impression the gear makes on you. The technical aspects which you do present in your reviews are not only appropriate for the majority of viewers, but also in good balance with the human experience. I don't think you need to compete with other channels. Your content stands plenty strong on its own. When it comes to successful acoustic design, equations and science will only take you so far, an artistic element is needed in order to complete the design and to make it superb. It is like a comprehension of things that can only be grasped by an organic being, not a computer. Best regards!
Thanks Taz for the comment. Always great to hear from you as your comments are well thought out and meaningful. Thanks for the encouragement. I don't really compete with others so I am not really following your comment. I am super open to constructive feedback and you can be direct with me. I 100% understand your comment to be of encouragement so that is why I like you to elaborate on it specifically as to what trigger the positive feedback.Thanks and 10000000% don't take my response in the wrong way.
@@ThomasAndStereo The point was not to suggest that your channel was or has been trying to compete with any others, rather that my impression of some of the other audio review channels is that they seem to be competing against each other and possibly somewhat against yours, even mentioning your channel in their videos (which can be a good thing or not so good thing depending on how it is referenced). I'm not opposed to friendly competition, if someone wants to be in that game, but when it begins to degenerate to something like car dealerships trying to outsell their competition, then the enjoyment of watching the reviews goes way down, for me at least and perhaps for others viewers. You have not done anything like that and I just wanted to bring some awareness to the matter (perhaps because I like purity of your work and selfishly want it to stay that way). Clearly your own passions can take the future format of the channel in different directions, which is great, and I think we all support you in those endeavors- just want those core Thomas & Stereo attributes preserved. (BTW this has nothing to do with your videos with Jay, which I thought were really good). As always, your work and response are much appreciated.
Hey guys....this isn't a complaint because I know you're aiming at a different market than me. But what I want is for somebody else to get the synergy right, and then sell it to me. You guys are in the store all day trying out many different combinations, and you seem really honest to me so I'll take your advice. You should start with three basic questions: 1) How do you like your music? 2) What are your sources? 3) What's the upper limit of your budget?
I'll be pleased to answer any sub-questions, like what size room I have, do I listen mostly loud or soft; rock? acoustic? opera? Whatever. Then when you know those answers, you can say, "Here's the set-up that all our experience and expertise teaches us will have the synergy you like."
For a reviewer, you can't help us individually like an in-store advisor can, so you'd have to go by categories of listening preferences within each budget. Then you would use your expertise to match components for that preference and total cost. "If you like your music slightly bright and you have x-dollars to spend, you should try the _____ model xxx amp with __________ model yyy speakers, and turntable model blah-blah." That kind of specific advice would help me a lot.
I actually made this proposal to a store. I asked them to setup systems that have good synergy and I go in to talk about it. For example, "I have $1k, I listen to A, B, C kind of music. My listening profile is.... can you recommend a synergestic system? "
Will see if I will ever make that video.
@@ThomasAndStereo Great minds think alike! haha I look forward to that format!
You two work so well together, too bad you live so far apart. BTW, thanks so much, this video was highly educational for me. I've never thought that much about synergy and how important it is. I feel like this has opened a whole new approach to good audio for me.
Yes, it is so important that if you ever had the chance to test gear like I do, you will quickly realized that there is no 'bad' gear, it is just a question if they match or not.
total synergy is extremely important - i just purchased my speakers and im getting the same components as the person l heard the setup.
Hi Thomas always enjoy your take on things, I found when I started my journey some 35lyrs ago matching different components was a nightmare no internet just magazines etc and after buying my turntable (still using it) I ended up buying my amps preamp and speakers all from the same manufacturer I still have the same system today only this Yr i decided to try some new interconnects and a couple of rel subs mostly down to moving to a new home which changed the sound of the system and doing this my system sound is back to how it used to be anyway my take on this is mixing and matching can be a long and difficult journey and you may never be happy so don't overlook using a 1 name solution if possible thanks. Jim
Good point, buying from same manufacturer is one way of doing it.
I am trying to sell some synergy to fund some other synergy
Once married a beautiful girl, didn't cook or clean. Was obsessed w/ her appearance. Didn't last long. I agree what you say about synergy. you should make it a part of your reviews.weather its speakers, amps or whatever. See how well they synergize together.
In chemistry, synergy is when the sum of the parts are greater than expected, i.e. 1+1=3. The same applies to hi-fi. As you said, you can buy the best in class of everything and still have no magic. Conversely, there are real deals to be had when you find gear that works well together. My system has been transformed in the last 3 months by a PS Audio power regenerator, Silnote interconnect (Poseidon Sig II) and speaker cables (Anniversary II) and a Curious Evolved USB cable.
Yup! Congrats.
Synergy = (trial & error)/Time
Thomas, you did a segment a while back at a friend's house. This guy buys a lot of his stuff 2nd hand and you were raving about how good his system sounds. I think that friend of yours has a knack for synergy.
Oh yes, we spend a lot of afternoons together trying different combos. My friend who owns a lot of vintage gear, now he is master at that. I like to make some videos on his different systems to showcase the logic behind how he pairs each system.
Thomas & Stereo that could be great.
Very nice video and excellent topic. My wish will be for experienced reviewers like you to show us more complete systems for 1k, 2k, 3k, 5k, 10k,... Where you found synergies. Don't forget nothing, even the cables lol.
Thanks
Yes it was to be everything including cables.
@@ThomasAndStereo speaking of synergies. I recently purchased the ATOLL IN30. I used it as a preamp for my powered speakers. It was amazing.
I decided to try the elac debut 2 b5.2 with it and I was disappointed. No bass at all. Not even the boomy kind.
Is there a problem with the elac 2 b5.2 in the bass ?
@@yannick930 I never heard the b5.2 but I had the 6.2. The more power you give it, the more bass you will get. I drove it with 200+ watt and bass was ok. Ideally a minimum of 100w give the Elac are not that efficient too.
@@ThomasAndStereo Someone helped me with the issue : it was out of phase. The amp or the speakers. i switched the + and - wire and it fixed it. (Power cord issue i presume, i'll deal with it later).
But for the moment the Atoll seems fine, only 3 green light to bring it loud enough for me. It's for a small room.
Thanks for the advice. I'll upgrade later for the IN200. Experience the difference that more power does.
For the moment i'll get the Klipsch RP600m too, just to experiment what Jay and you experiment.
(New "audiophile") i don't wanna invest big yet. I wanna learn first what i like?
Have you played with the taga harmony hta-700 ? It's a tube amp and pre-amp, the V3 is coming soon (it's entry level but people say that it's good for the price :)
my two 2 cents on it is this. Yes super saiyen synergy is hard and luck sort of has part to do with it, but here are a few leads to try to find the best match. First ask the designer what gear they used to design their equipment with, that will be a good start. In the case of your JBL it is very likely it was designed around vintage Mcintosh. Also, as a former dealer I have to say that a good dealer (and I know not all of them are) knows synergy. That accidental stuff happens more in the store when you have all of the gear in the store to try out and a good dealer will know what will play way based on technical requirements and sonic signature. That being said I would say there are a few products I can say played well and added synergy for almost any item I put it on, and believe it or not cables and power conditioners when done correctly do that really well. My favorite were Isotek line conditioners, Audience line conditioners, and AU24e (Now AU24sx) those products sounded good on almost any gear you put them on and added synergy to everything.
You are right about stores able to mix and match stuff to find good synergy. That is why we need more stores back! Thanks for the info on the line conditioners. Cable matching makes a difference, yup!
I couldnt agree more:) experience, knowledge,audiophile friends, and a bit of luck:) and i would add to create synergy i think is start by your speakers Then source preamp and last amp. Not the other way around. Less complicated and less expensive:)
Here’s my experience in shaping my system over almost two years in order to get the sound I wanted: R-2R DAC + powerful tube amp + some tube rolling + subs + speaker toe-in and height adjustment + some room treatment = warm and lush sounding KEF LS50s (that are often called too bright by many people)
What are the components? So other people can build it that way?
dennem Not sure about your experience, but my vintage r2r dac made my system less harsh than my sd dacs (have tried 10 medium priced dac units so far). My diy vintage JBL monitors (think L300 plus) are much smoother with r2r dac even with solid state amps (Bryston). It finally took a capacitor upgrade to speaker bypass caps to get it right. After 35 years I finally have the sound I want (for now!).
@@kirarittberg5088 Well I think that is my point. Not all R2R dac will 'react' the same to a system. In some system, it will sound smooth while others harsh. Regardless, congrats on getting the sound you want and that is the most important.
Thomas & Stereo I don’t think it’s going to help anybody, since it’s been a lot of trial and error seeking the sound that suits my taste. I believe building a system is very personal process and everyone should to go through their own experience. Other people’s opinions and reviews should only be used as initial guideline. At the moment my amplification costs way more than the speakers:
- DAC Denafrips Ares II in NOS mode
- preamp Rogue Audio RP-1 with Mullard 12AU7 1960s tubes
- power amp PrimaLuna Premium HP with KT150 tubes
- KEF LS50s plus a pair of REL T5i subs
Dedicated listening room and Cardas method speaker placement - nothing will sound as good as it can without proper speaker placement.
Yes it is not easy to get it locked in. After many different equipment pieces in my system, my find was. Vandersteen 5, Aesthetix preamp, vtl st150 , Burson dac silver wire diy, thorens 125 / DENON 103 / pass lab phono diy . Fails were, moon audio power and preamp, audio research, Bryston shindo , krell , museatex, don’t get me wrong all these companies make really good sounding equipment but it did not click in. There were others that I actually forgot now because they were forgettable. There are a number of companies want to do a full system from a to B which I kind of like the idea of that you don’t have to go mess round to get some synergy
Yup. That is one of the advantage stores offer.
in the "Quest for Synergy" using 30+ amplifiers /equipment .... Along the way, I would wonder if certain speakers are simply not capable of achieving "Synergy". What makes you believe your equipment is capable of reaching Synergy??? What makes you believe a certain speaker is worth the effort ??
Trial and error. After a while, you will develop a certain confidence that if you try enough, you will get decent result with most products. Synergy in audio is one of those thing where once you achieve it, 'you know'
@@ThomasAndStereo Why were the Earthquake Titans worth the pursuit of Synergy to begin with?? What makes a speaker qualify for the pursuit of Synergy to begin with??
Hi Thomas, I've learned so much watching your reviews, thank you! I'm looking to put my first system together, and trying to choose
an integrated amp under $1500 that will provide the best synergy to pair with Klipsch RP-8000F speakers. A few I'm considering are the Outlaw Audio RR2160, Denon PMA-800NE, Cambridge CXA61, and NAD C316BEE V2. But, I'm totally open to any amp, and would really appreciate any thoughts or recommendations you might have.
Hello, I have a Tannoy Kingdom 15 speaker. What do you think a will be a dream synergy. I think amp wise tube is the way to go.
I am an beginner audiophile and I think I know what the answer to this is going to be. Tadadadadadadaaaa : it's the all-in-one systems. I have no money, nor the time nor patience to try out 30 AMPLIFIERS WITH MY SPEAKERS. Let the specialists do that at their lab. I need to rock and roll and to enjoy. Setting up one amp takes a time, then there are different cables, sources and recordings to consider, not to mention break in, warm up, vibration etc. All-in-one will be the way of the future.
That is one good solution.
Excellent discussion.
Ah, Jay don't like good food :-) .
Is synergy a bit comparable to the match of devices, cables and acoustics?
Yes, matching of every piece of gear in your system.
Here's one example. I recently made a system with really good components and yet the sound was not engaging or impressive. I changed one cable and it was transformed and magical sounding. That sounds extreme and some people don't "get" the importance of cables and yet the system went from boring to superb.
Yup, I 100% understand you.
How about slightly of synergy which makes it a more exciting synergy.. like Jay Thomas & Stereo
Love these videos thanks.
Currently looking for an affordable int. amp to go with my denon avr to just drive my front elac b2 2.0 for music. I know they can sound better.
Amp and preamp are the first things to synergize. I have a Bryston 4b sst that does not sound right because it doesn't have its own preamp. Not good , might sell it.
They can be agressive depending on what you pair it with. I had one and I was able to get it to sound smooth.
Do you know what dac pairs well with monitors using a class d amp?
Hi Guys, I take a chance.. I have Focal Aria 936, and I plan to buy a Primaluna Evo 400 preamp, and I'm looking to the best match possible for the amplifier, I heard that Bryston 4b3 is an excellent match with this preamp... I'm looking also for the wyred4sound ST-500 mkii....but I cannot find nothing on the web for amp synergie with evo preamp.. do you have something to say about ? anything can help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I was thinking "luck," and Thomas says "luck." Then I was thinking about knowing when to quit. A big part of that, for me, is being willing and able to trust my own ears.
Ah, all audiophiles who went thru a lot of trial and error understand that 'luck' I am talking about :)
You guys have great synergy!
McIntosh and Sonus Faber are both very warm sounding, you wouldn't think they would have good synergy BUT THEY DO!
Yeah, have to try to know, never assume with stereo.
@@ThomasAndStereo IT'S MADDENING!
I'm thankful that you brought up this topic because of its importance, but I'm bothered greatly by Thomas mentioning that there are guidelines, but not really explaining what the guidelines are. I think you need to revisit the topic and speak more about these guidelines.
For example, is it true that gear from the same company will most likely match well?
I'm asking mostly for me, because I took a chance on the Musical Paradise MP-301 tube amp and found I really liked its sound. This encouraged me to also try their MP-D1 dac and MBerry Music Server. I assumed that they would work well together and I like the analog and musical sound that it gives to my digital music files. The combo also has good sound stage.
I do feel that I need to match it with better speakers, but am finding it hard to unearth info on which speakers would match well, as there aren't too many reviews of Musical Paradise products. Right now I have Monitor Audio Bronze 2, but would like to do better.
I'm not really sure what better would be, and I live in a location where auditioning is impossible.
I know that many people use Tekton M-lores with the MP-301 amp, and am wondering if they would match better than what I now have, or is there an even better choice?
Or do I already have a good match with the Bronze 2s?
Yeah, I was thinking to make videos with specific examples at Mr Vintage home. I was going to go into the specifics down to what music sounds good with what specific system at his place. Something to do in the future. Yeah, what speakers will match well with the MP301? I think that is what forums are good for. We know Tekton M-Lores seems to have some success for example. I would ask Mr vintage what success he had with his speaker eventually.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks, Thomas. That proposed video does sound like a lot of work. if it was me, I would try to summarize general pointers rather than too many specifics.
As to the MP-301, I have found a lot of forums that talk about tube rolling and mods for the amp, but hardly any that get into speakers, except for mentioning the M-Lores or Klipsch, and I'm not keen on klipsch.
Dennis Wade .You will need high efficiency speakers of 90db or greater. I would look at good vintage floor standing speakers if you have the space and don't intend on using a sub.
@@kirarittberg5088 Yeah, the bronze 2s are 90db and actually sound good. The amp drives them very well . I guess I'm just speculating about whether something else would sound better.
So there are all of these audiophiles that have achieved synergy. I've searched, but came up with almost nothing. Why isn't there a list somewhere with components that mate well with loudspeakers and each other? I think it's crazy that I'm paying these prices and not getting much information on how they work. I just want to buy the best sound system that I can afford. But I keep running into roadblocks. It just seems, to me, that at these prices, I should be getting more advice/info. Why don't speaker companies give you a list of brands/amps that marry well with their speakers? What amp should I use with my Dali Zensor 3s? I stream through my pc and a Schiit Modi Uber 2 dac. I'm terrified that I'm going to get a bad match because I don't know any better, I have nothing to compare it. I don't have any audiophile friends and there are no dealers close to me. I've been at this for almost a year and feel like the more I learn, the less I know. Don't even get me started on cables, I'll worry about that later. One problem at a time.
You usually would use forums for that. Perhaps the Dali speaker is not popular here in the states so you don't have a lot of info on it. You cannot guess if an amp match well or not, you need to try it and that is why forums with owners contributing is so important.
@@ThomasAndStereo I guess reading through the forums and reviews, RUclips, etc, for hours everyday is just my life now. Thanks for all the comparisons you do.
Is your soundstage wider than your room ? Or deeper than the distance from the wall to the front baffle? Can you talk about the synergy between your rig and your room.
Its easy enough to add a carpet, or some acoustic panels, but you can't move your walls...
No, you have to move yourself in relation to the speakers. Or move speaker in relation to the back wall. Wide soundstage also has to do with phasing.
ruclips.net/video/F_A2RSqjm1U/видео.html
I think this is a much more advanced topic and even veterans seem to make these mistakes. Beginner mistakes are a lot more different. Synergy is a deep deep rabbit hole that beginners should not get into. There are a lot of smaller and easier things to focus on and make your system sound better.
Sure, you are right and I think beginners should still be aware of such a thing. That way, when they buy something based on a review, they have to be aware of the fact that it can sound 'different' at their home due to different gear.
@@ThomasAndStereo I think there are a lot of other things they can start with because synergy is such a broad subject and 1 question about which speakers synergize with what equipment can put them off at the whole audiophile journey as they will get 10 different answers. And questions like these also lead to people starting to recommend other systems and speakers rather than the one the buyer already has. Which starts making them second guess if they even bought the right speakers in the first place. I think you should change the name of the title and make it more focused to Synergy in a system as opposed to beginners as this will just make them even more confused on what to do.
What this means is that there is still hope for that piece of hifi that is not sounding that good in your possession. Don't throw it away just yet.
my bose acoustimust speaker has a great synergy with my karambola amplficateur
I have great Synergy with Magnepan LRS, Emotiva XPA monoblocks, NAD C658, Schitt Freya (JFET mode)
Congrats. I heard the LRS at the toronto show, I think people were equally impressed with it than the Wilson big speaker in the same room.
@@ThomasAndStereo Good to know. I bought my LRS after Steve G recommended them.
this are very funny and interesting stories, but, souldn't be more all in one speakers? i mean, the manufacturer should be known about the capabilities of their speakers and how to amp/pair it well
Active is one way to go but they have to work within their budget when building that gear.
Synergy is crucial for a cohesive system to experience sound nirvana to say the least.
My idea of great equipment is stuff that's super durable and reliable, and sounds good enough that I'd need an A/B comparison to hear the flaws compared to something 10x as expensive. So I have high standards for stereo gear. When it comes to women, for me a 10 is someone who is not a picky eater. You don't need to like everything, but at least try it!
Synergy occurs when a system is better than the sum of it's parts. The combination of all the components elevates the sound beyond what should be expected. I'll have to think about what it means in Jay terms.
Nicely said. I call it going super Saiyan...
@@ThomasAndStereo Cool. From now on you should refer to it as such on the channel. Maybe it'll become an audio colloquialism. Haha.
Thomas, Good topic, but hard to advise about. Are you sure that was an MP cd you had, I am not aware of any MP CD player or anything from Musical Paradise with such a lofty price tag. After 50 years of improving my audio systems I have found synergy is attained when your better half approves of your gear purchases, no waf (wife approval factor) no synergy! So simple!
I made a mistake in the video. It was a $8k cdn cdplayer.
www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/838/index.html
Yup, happy wife, happy life.
OMG! Pretty girls, cooking? LOL, you’re lucky audiophiles are generally male!!! The look on your face Thomas, was PRICELESS!
haha. Oh boy! Nice to hear from you again.
Very very hard to get a sub integrated properly into a two channel system without a room correction. model; eg Martin Logan.
Let's talk dinnergy...
PS. Rather like...er... stumbling across the right woman🙀, great systems are love at first sight (sound) and there is no mistaking it. When you hear a system that is working to all its strengths and all the parts are complementing each other, something special can happen. (Wedding bells). In 40 years ( in the audio industry) I can count on one hand the number of truly great systems heard. Thousands of very good ones, but not many extraordinary ones.
You need to get to know your equipment - a bit of a cliche, but for example:
I love Quad 57s and if you use a nice valve amp they will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. I have yet to hear a transistor amp do what those valves manage. Or,
A line level system can often be transformed by replacing the preamp with just a volume pot - as you know. Going from a boring flat and lifeless sound to a big exciting one. Simplicity and minimalism is a good way to go, and eases effects of dinnergy. There is no problem with dinnergy if you take that part out.
In my experience, the electronics are often the make or break items, the parts that can transform the listening experience. The other parts are arguably more important as they are responsible for the whole character and ultimate quality of the system. Just that the whole thing can topple with poor electronics...or to be kind to the likes of Krell (replaced by a volume pot with excellent results) - badly matched components.
Often ignored is checking cables and set up. I have had a terrible time trying to make a system sound good when there has been a crappy interconnect cable with a dodgy ground etc. Any fault or bad connection can ruin your day. Spend some time checking cables, nuts and bolts etc. and sometimes you get your synergy for free.
Edit: Or as many are saying..Luck!
Thank you for this really nicely written comment. I hope others will get to read it too. I am very moved that many people with lots of real life experiences and knowledge watch and contribute to a small channel like mine.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you for the lovely reply.
I think you are developing a wonderful channel and you will not have to be so modest in the future...Quality always wins.
Off topic
There are actually songs which go like "Girl...I hope you can cook".
Bi amping with two different amplifiers. Or 4 mono blocks. The combination is endless. Search for perfect synergy is endless. Stop the madness
Too late...
You put together all the top, best soccer players and goal keeper as one team, result is ..... we have seen that before, they can't win a game. There is no synergy!
Playing with a lot of gears :) Question: How much gears could a gearchuck chuck, if gearchuck could chuck gears?
gear...last time I will make that mistake!
@@ThomasAndStereo We still love you just as much!!!
A system with synergy sounds better that the component do individually.
Heres the truth. If you want synergy
1/ Stop buying hifi mags. They dont help . They just give you an audiophile inferiority complex.
2/ Stop listening to Audiophile Musak.
3/ Make sure your room is nice & habitable
4/ Play a few tunes you previously considered bad sound quality.
5/ Dont expect to be blown over immediately. Take your time to listen
6/ Get the vocals right the system will fall into place.
7/ Build within the room space.
Cambridge Audio and Maurdant Short has great synergy.
Harman Kardon 730 receiver and Epicure M100 speakers, blew me away many years ago. With a Pioneer Pl-50 to play albums. Can be had for very little money.
Have to agree. Often it is almost accidental. Let me give a vintage example. I had an old set of Boston Acoustics A100s. Nothing Hi-End or that special but designed by an apprentice of Henry Kloss and one of the founders of Boston Acoustics. This speaker, in fact, was designed to compete and possibly surpass Kloss's own original Large Advent.
The long and the short. I bought a pair, cheap, on CL. Brought them home and ran them on a number of different vintage amps/receivers. Flat, lifeless, not very dynamic. Not impressive.
After a few weeks of not playing with these. I got an old Kenwood, dual power supply, mono design integrated. A very nice piece and one of the better Kenwoods from the 70s.
So, I hook the Bostons up to this and WOW! A totally different speaker. Full, more bass, huge increase in imaging, smooth midrange. More musical than ever. Night and day difference!
Shocking! Why? Who knows. I can't explain why this happened but I continue to run that combo in my basement system. Can it compete with lots of the gear you boys review? No.
But for music listening, it's smooth as butter. Not the most detail, not the most transient. Not the best high end. Not the most bass. Not the tightest bass, and so on.
But WHO CARES! Because it is so enjoyable that anyone who listens to it can appreciate, and only a picky audiophile who is NOT listening to the music but to the GEAR can knock it.
As for me, I do not LISTEN to GEAR. I listen to music, lol!
The same thing is true with my Jolida tube amp. This did not sound good with a pair of large speakers I had. But when I put them on an old set of JBL L80ts! OMG!
Big, full, fat, dynamic sound! Of course I was also running the Jolida tube CD player with this system!
There are other examples!
Thanks, I 100% understand the examples you shared cause we get that kind of experience too. Sometimes it is not necessary the most expensive gear that plays well but the right gear. I remember this cd player Mr Kanta had, it was a few hundred dollars that cd player so not super high end. For some reason, it worked AMAZING with a $1 interconnect cable than his $1k+ cable.
link for Klipsch upgrade. ruclips.net/video/C7IOOxqc81U/видео.html
That's why I am using my tube pre and the pre2p with my belcantos without tube the soundstage is gone and doll also my schiit Mani gives a nice boost too compared to the phone in the pre2p
Yeah, tubes makes the soundstage more holographic.
By definition: the whole is greater than the sum of the parts
Yup, when they all work together in synergy.
Start with the synergy between amp and speakers first.
Nice, now that you mention it, yeah that makes sense!
I’d say speakers and room first
PROJACKED How?
@@ThomasAndStereo Also; solid core interconnects/ speaker cables!...
Stranded cable vs solid core is a world of difference , well, to me it is easily heard.
Especially in volume/ gain! What material is used =which synergy works best on that specific system .It could be something you do not need at all. You might need the opposite. That being said ; only single core cables will give you more 'true' and more 'honest' differences. And don't fall for the engineering perspective.That is a stupid rabbithole discussion. The less junk in the signal path (stranded vs solid core) the more true your response will be. Sound is absolute.It's the gear and cables that are relative. Electricity is only a part of the sound.
@@brainache555 I actually spent most of my time getting the right amp.
I have found over the years cables play big part of Synergy.. love the tektons
Yup, everything in the system matters.
Yes Thomas that is my system.
Proof of synergy is when you look at people like Thomas, Sean etc and their wives. If not for the synergy in their partnership we would not be able to see these YT channels. 😬
Synergy is true but you got Harbeth and Harbeth User Group diehards who say there is no such thing. Harbeth says their speakers are equipment agnostic.
Try a Harbeth with something like a Audiolab 82000a. It will sound crappy.
Wow...I never knew people who are playing with gear at Harbeth level can say there is no such thing as synergy!
Thomas & Stereo ... I kid you not. Alan Shaw and his cohorts there aren’t very fond of tube amps too. Why use an amp that has distortion. That’s why I stopped going to that forum.
Click on below link for 3rd & last Klipsch upgrade video.
You've decided to make a vide aimed solely at me!
haha...pain of all audiophiles.
Those Meitner amps are sparkly with not much bass. They are 100wpc 8 ohms, 200wpc 4 ohms.
I see, usually 100w should be enough to drive a lot of speakers especially efficient ones. Never know till you try it I guess.
Click link below for last 3rd upgrade video for Klipsch stereo speakers. ruclips.net/video/C7IOOxqc81U/видео.html
Interesting from the sound demo, about half the people prefer the stock.
Click on link below to see big sale on Klipsch speakers.
No link.
Yes Thomas it was a very good tale and very anti climatic. The CD player manufacturer should repair it free of charge just for the publicity value alone. Lol.
It was an old musical fidelity cd and they did replace for the first owner.
Sadly I have never hear a perfect or a total synergic system before, there are always something that I can pick on in a system, and I am not able to reach full happiness most of the time, and unlikely I will have all the resources I need to try everything out. :-( Most of the gears you guys mentioned are old, therefore it is very hard to reproduce any of these experience. I would love to have one or few lists of the modern components that defines synergy from your perspective, until then we can be really in the same page on this. On the other hand, Zero Fidelity has made a video about an affordable desktop setup that has good synergy(but I am not interested in building a desktop setup). Also Thomas you mentioned Cayin pair with LRS is an end game setup sounds also promising. However I am still not totally sure what tubes your friends swap with. But definitely that was also a great hint to us!
Yeah those tubes I put in the description of that video. That combo has its issues, meaning we can only listen at moderate volume.
@@ThomasAndStereo yup, that was my impression as well. I listen mostly from medium to loud volume. :)
Synergy. That means get the best AMP you can then eventually buy a pair of speakers that are best suited for it. AMP FIRST!
I like the Dragonball Z term you used there Thomas! 😂
yeah, grew up with it...
Thomas & Stereo that’s cool, I’m a late bloomer Dragonball Z fan. Hate to think how much money I could have put towards a new pair of speakers and amplifier, instead of spending money on DBZ Funko Pops! 😂
Can I use DSP/tone control and flat class-D amp?? (if I don't care about being a purist)
Hi I don't use them myself but I know Steve guttenberg says use tone controls if u need them schitt make a good cheap one just remember most tone controls are best used by cutting the treble or bass not adding gain for best results, hope that helps.
Sure, class D amp, in this case is no different than class AB. You can adjust it with tone control. I am about to review the Schiit Loki equalizer in a week or 2.
@@ThomasAndStereo Looking forward to hear your opinion. It just sounds like you guys are switching gear to "control" the "tone" of the music.
@@netnakul well, there is also many other things such as fluidity, speed, dynamics, control, seperation, sounstage and so forth that cannot be done by tone control.
Ou guys, the wife section you've opened it with is probably gonna struggle on...
...WAF :D
Thomas you talk a lot about this gear with that gear and this sounds better than that so on so forth. Sound is subjective. The entire topic of audiophile judging sound is flawed because each person perceived sound differently. What’s good for one may be bad for another. A lot of terms used to describe sound from audiophiles don’t really clearly describe the sound because unlike video or pictures sounds is very hard to be visualized or imagined.
So synergy is also a subjective topic so how can you say beginners get synergy wrong? What’s wrong for you may be right for someone else.
Also cables don’t change sound. The difference is probably measurable with equipments but very unlikely that human ear can pick that up. Also Thomas as you age... you hearing changes. The human ear also on average can only capture between 20-20khz so why are some of your reviews talk about higher frequencies and how you can hear them? Is that a super natural ability?
Well, I did not say beginners get synergy wrong but rather I said many beginners are not aware of such a thing. Some would buy the KEF LS50 for example, bring it home and find it too bright then concluding it sucks without realizing a change in amp will solve the problem. A speaker will sound drastically different from one amp to another.
We actually covered the difference between synergy and taste in the original video but I edited it out since it was too long. It is 2 different thing and I have been talking about a question of taste a lot on my channel so I am 100% aware of it. Check out my video on 'what speaker to buy. 'Taste is a question of priorities.
what has great synergy with Klipsch RP600Ms?
Tube integrated amp will always sound great with Klipsch, this is what Klipsch uses when showcasing new speakers!
You can also look at the 3 budget integrated amp I review. I thought the Atoll IN30 was pretty ok with it.