Hi John hope you are well, Sometimes I think that the amount of stuff we as electricians have to check is excessive, this is because I personally have a conscience and would never leave an installation unsafe, but Clearly some do not share this ethos! Now after seeing examples of shoddy workmanship I have to admit I totally see the logic of the REGs because there are those among us who value profit above life, it is sheer luck that the examples of bad workmanship you've shown have not resulted in fires or electricution! I would advise anyone doing electrical work of 2 fundamental things, SAFETY AND GOOD WORKMANSHIP is the foundation for trouble free installations! Good luck John keep up the good work.
Good to hear your assessment of the older systems likely to be encountered by us, should we be trying to upgrade incoming distribution supplies. Foe example, where a C3 would be the correct choice for lack of an RCD for additional protection on systems installed some time ago. Testing is an area lots of guys are wary of, and shared intelligence is very helpful. To those of us who haven't spent lots of time carrying out this type of work directly, your observations could save not only time and money but prevent errors and potential risks, to us or others. Many thanks
Hi, I have just found your videos. They are very professionally done. Thank you for your clear straightforward explainations. I finally understand that I don’t need a ring main in my garage for my woodworking machines I can ask the electrician to fit a radial circuit of sockets. How about a video on a garage workshop set up as we now seem to be using larger machines when doing diy. Thanks John from County Durham.
Hi John keep up the good work , I have a question for you I have recently been asked to add a couple of extractors in 2 seperate bathrooms . Both are venting into same area the loft but it's thatched roof . So as far as the cabling goes as I understand it has to be swa to prevent rodents chewing the stuff through and causing fire . So ok I get that part but what about the extractors them selves what sort of protection is required as they are of a plastic set up and also the ducts , do these need to be mechanicaly protected ie; metal surrounds or barrier as the rules in bs7671 is very vague , thanks for you time Gary b
Going to have to deal with this myself at some point soon. Twenty years of bodged-up DIY has left the house electrics in a state very far from conforming with the regulations. I'm currently working to fix that - bringing it up as much as I can myself (which mostly means fixing my past teenage ineptitudes) in preparation for calling in a professional.
No, I'm not. But I know enough to do half the job, which is better than leaving things as they are now. I know that lightswitches with the face smashed in need replacing, and that live wires poking out of junction boxes are an issue, and that cables rubbing against sharp metal edges of enclosures really need a grommet. I know how to work on it without killing myself. I can fix these obvious things. Simply calling in an electrician is currently not an option due to issues involving the slightly dysfunctional nature of the household. I can hardly make it any more unsafe than it is already.
Hi John. Any chance you can cover the testing side of EICR’s. Testing all earth together ( global testing) etc. Must be some tricks of the trade to speed up this part of the EICR. Cheers
Hi John, Great video. On your gallery photos you show an open consumer unit at 39:20 with the front cover removed. You mention about the exposed conductor wire on the RCBO but what about the two neutral wires on the right that appear to be coming out of the front of the cabinet. Was there a cut out in the front cover to prevent the cables being damaged when it was fitted back on or was there no front panel fitted? In which case it would have been a C1. Paul
JW, Yet another nugget of excellent information/education. I'm sure the general public have little idea of what the Sparkys should be doing regarding forms to be competed. Further to my Saga of the MK Consumer Unit installed in Oct 2013 - There is a gap/blanking plate missing between the 1st bank of RCD/MCBs and the second RCD. Would this qualify as a C1 as when the front CU access flap is down I could quite easily put my finger through the gap and possibly touch something inside which could be live. Seems as though the Main switch on the left of the CU is not as far to the left as it could go and therefore there is not enough of a gap to fit a blanking plate. Seems as though the Sparky has done a very poor job of installing the CU. From your explanation of various issues that could exist - the missing blanking plate would infer I have had a C1 present since it was installed. I'll need to find out what action I can take to correct it. Hopefully at no cost to me. I'll have to have a ferret around to see what docs I can find. So far I only found the Building Regs Certificate - No install "Certificate" from the installing Electrician. If only you were posting this sort of info in 2013 I may have watched some of them and been much wiser as to what docs I should have been provided with. Foolish me thought that the Building Regs Certificate was all I needed and having one "underwritten" by NAPIT would ensure all was as it should be. I now know/am of the strong impression that all is NOT as it should be. At least he got the labelling of what is what correct. I'm going to pursue how easy it would be to identify the and downstairs sockets rings and get them onto separate RCBO's. My experience of NAPIT so far since mid Jan '19 draws me to the current conclusion that they seem to not want to be involved in my CU install issue. More correspondace with NAPIT tomorrow then
Hi John, 11:20 of the video, you went through the details of the person inspecting and testing the report. I wanted to ask about the section "report authorised for issue by". If I'm working for a social housing company, do I fill the company details in that space or do I fill my details in both parts? Thanks
That is intended for situations where one person will do the inspection & testing, complete the form with the results, and then that will be checked by someone else who signs in the 'authorised by' box. They can both be the same person, all depends on the exact arrangements and who is doing the work.
You could, but it would be more usual to check some of them, such as 10% or 25%. All depends on what is required and whether the person requesting the report wants to pay - inspecting everything would take a lot longer and cost more.
@@jwflame Thank you for the reply John. This subject confused me a lot ! Cause some people say different and the other different. i’ve C&G 18 edition ,2391-52 and work as Self-employment. I was always struggling to find the correct answer that if can carry out EICR or not for the rental properties So,basically the answer is yes then !?
DP MCBs are permitted, although rarely used. If they are single pole, they must be in the line conductor. However if double pole are installed, then that is also acceptable.
Thanks for another great video. But I'd love to have known what code you'd have given to the things you talked about. ( C1, C2, C3, FI, etc.). For example what would you give a situation that was not complying to even the regs under which it was installed but neither would changing it 'contribute to a significant enhancement of the safety of the installation' thus earning a C3? Like no brown sleeving on the blue of a twin and earth used as a switch wire? (Or the examples on page 18 of the Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 4 on EICRs)? You'd not want to give it a tick because it isn't correct but neither a C3. There seem to be a whole host of things in this category.
Great video. Im a qualified electrician, self employed 17th edition etc. But not got my inspection & test certificate.. Although I know how to test and what to look for. Who should fill in certificates? There seems to be a grey area to me. Im not a member of an organisation NICEIC, Napit, Elecsa, etc either. I try to avoid doing "notifiable work" but occasionally need to cross over into it. Is it acceptable for me to complete installation certs, and do EICRs, etc? I do Minor work certs where I need to but the old one keeps cropping up.. "competent, skilled person" I am a bit worried that someone can just write out these certs and class themselves as "skilled, competent" I know my work complies with BS7671 but who is checking it if im not a registered approved electrician? I am currently looking at doing my 2392 course.. It's pricey but at the same time don't want to join an organisation either. Whats your thoughts?
Hi do the course. send in your details to the jib board after 2 years you become approved on your jib gold card. in the mean time while it just says installation electrician on your gold card. you can still get work testing as long as you show your certificate qualification when you complete the course
It is not necessary to belong to any organisation to complete certificates. For the minor works and installation certificates - if you are competent enough to install and test your own work, you are certainly capable of filling in the certificate as well. The EICR does require significantly more knowledge and experience of what to look for, but no requirement to belong to any organisation for those either.
if you do an inspection and it has failed, you list the remedials and complete the remidials it then passes, do you issue a certificate thats failed then issue a certificate again with satisfactory on it??
When the remedial work is done, a minor works or installation certificate would be issued, that would be kept together with the EICR so that it can be seen that the defects listed were subsequently repaired. You don't need a second EICR after the faults are fixed.
I must say i saw no identification on some nuetrals also and with mixed colour confusion sould happen also. No cover on buzzbar and just a bit messy in the workmanship side im sure ive missed something else need to watch it back.the next pick the board could have a liquid fall onto it also seeing as its so low
Back in the late 70s when i got my electrical lic in california it was easy just send in your box tops and the main thing your money. I would probably fail the test if i were to take it today
me from the Poland, me come Englands 1 years ago and I just the tick the boxes on this form and collect £250. I have no education in UK and I only take cash payment I love the England the money is very well. But British qualified electricians hate me haha because they say my work is very very lowest bad
me from the Poland, me come Englands 1 years ago and I just the tick the boxes on this form and do it 3 times a day collect £250 each one. Easy money haha I just tick boxes I don’t know haha I have no education in UK and I only take cash payment I love the England the money is very well. But British qualified electricians hate me haha because they say my work is very very lowest bad
Hi John hope you are well,
Sometimes I think that the amount of stuff we as electricians have to check is excessive, this is because I personally have a conscience and would never leave an installation unsafe, but Clearly some do not share this ethos!
Now after seeing examples of shoddy workmanship I have to admit I totally see the logic of the REGs because there are those among us who value profit above life,
it is sheer luck that the examples of bad workmanship you've shown have not resulted in fires or electricution!
I would advise anyone doing electrical work of 2 fundamental things, SAFETY AND GOOD WORKMANSHIP is the foundation for trouble free installations!
Good luck John keep up the good work.
Brillant work here John, massive thanks for your mastery.
Good to hear your assessment of the older systems likely to be encountered by us, should we be trying to upgrade incoming distribution supplies. Foe example, where a C3 would be the correct choice for lack of an RCD for additional protection on systems installed some time ago.
Testing is an area lots of guys are wary of, and shared intelligence is very helpful. To those of us who haven't spent lots of time carrying out this type of work directly, your observations could save not only time and money but prevent errors and potential risks, to us or others.
Many thanks
Thank you so much
for taking the time and effort to make this video, it will be extremely helpful to many.
You're a good man JW.
Crystal clear explanation and presentation. 10/10 thank you
Great video John, very informative, thanks
Your videos are helpful to us . Thank you for clear explanations.
Hi, I have just found your videos. They are very professionally done. Thank you for your clear straightforward explainations. I finally understand that I don’t need a ring main in my garage for my woodworking machines I can ask the electrician to fit a radial circuit of sockets. How about a video on a garage workshop set up as we now seem to be using larger machines when doing diy. Thanks John from County Durham.
Thanks John, more sound practical advice for Sparks everywhere.
Hi John keep up the good work , I have a question for you I have recently been asked to add a couple of extractors in 2 seperate bathrooms .
Both are venting into same area the loft but it's thatched roof . So as far as the cabling goes as I understand it has to be swa to prevent rodents chewing the stuff through and causing fire .
So ok I get that part but what about the extractors them selves what sort of protection is required as they are of a plastic set up and also the ducts , do these need to be mechanicaly protected ie; metal surrounds or barrier as the rules in bs7671 is very vague , thanks for you time Gary b
Going to have to deal with this myself at some point soon. Twenty years of bodged-up DIY has left the house electrics in a state very far from conforming with the regulations. I'm currently working to fix that - bringing it up as much as I can myself (which mostly means fixing my past teenage ineptitudes) in preparation for calling in a professional.
Leave alone your not an Electrician
No, I'm not. But I know enough to do half the job, which is better than leaving things as they are now. I know that lightswitches with the face smashed in need replacing, and that live wires poking out of junction boxes are an issue, and that cables rubbing against sharp metal edges of enclosures really need a grommet. I know how to work on it without killing myself. I can fix these obvious things. Simply calling in an electrician is currently not an option due to issues involving the slightly dysfunctional nature of the household. I can hardly make it any more unsafe than it is already.
you are the best Jhon Ward ! thnx
Hi John. Any chance you can cover the testing side of EICR’s. Testing all earth together ( global testing) etc. Must be some tricks of the trade to speed up this part of the EICR. Cheers
Nice video John, wished you put the codes in the boxes !
Thanks John really helpful
Hi John,
Great video. On your gallery photos you show an open consumer unit at 39:20 with the front cover removed. You mention about the exposed conductor wire on the RCBO but what about the two neutral wires on the right that appear to be coming out of the front of the cabinet. Was there a cut out in the front cover to prevent the cables being damaged when it was fitted back on or was there no front panel fitted? In which case it would have been a C1.
Paul
It's only 1 wire - connected to the neutral bar, goes down, loops over to the right and then goes back to the rear of the RCBO.
John Ward
Thanks John for the prompt response. Clearly I should have gone to Specsavers!
JW, Yet another nugget of excellent information/education. I'm sure the general public have little idea of what the Sparkys should be doing regarding forms to be competed.
Further to my Saga of the MK Consumer Unit installed in Oct 2013 - There is a gap/blanking plate missing between the 1st bank of RCD/MCBs and the second RCD. Would this qualify as a C1 as when the front CU access flap is down I could quite easily put my finger through the gap and possibly touch something inside which could be live. Seems as though the Main switch on the left of the CU is not as far to the left as it could go and therefore there is not enough of a gap to fit a blanking plate. Seems as though the Sparky has done a very poor job of installing the CU. From your explanation of various issues that could exist - the missing blanking plate would infer I have had a C1 present since it was installed.
I'll need to find out what action I can take to correct it. Hopefully at no cost to me. I'll have to have a ferret around to see what docs I can find. So far I only found the Building Regs Certificate - No install "Certificate" from the installing Electrician.
If only you were posting this sort of info in 2013 I may have watched some of them and been much wiser as to what docs I should have been provided with. Foolish me thought that the Building Regs Certificate was all I needed and having one "underwritten" by NAPIT would ensure all was as it should be. I now know/am of the strong impression that all is NOT as it should be. At least he got the labelling of what is what correct. I'm going to pursue how easy it would be to identify the and downstairs sockets rings and get them onto separate RCBO's.
My experience of NAPIT so far since mid Jan '19 draws me to the current conclusion that they seem to not want to be involved in my CU install issue. More correspondace with NAPIT tomorrow then
Yes, live parts exposed is one of the very few things that is a C1.
Great video JW, I really enjoyed watching.
amzing video thanks
Hi John, 11:20 of the video, you went through the details of the person inspecting and testing the report. I wanted to ask about the section "report authorised for issue by". If I'm working for a social housing company, do I fill the company details in that space or do I fill my details in both parts? Thanks
That is intended for situations where one person will do the inspection & testing, complete the form with the results, and then that will be checked by someone else who signs in the 'authorised by' box.
They can both be the same person, all depends on the exact arrangements and who is doing the work.
very helpful vedio thank you for sharing
With an eicr would you check conductors in every accessory in the property ?
You could, but it would be more usual to check some of them, such as 10% or 25%.
All depends on what is required and whether the person requesting the report wants to pay - inspecting everything would take a lot longer and cost more.
Hi John,
Have you done a video on IP codes? And if so, where can I find it.
Do you need to be registered with one of the schemes if you want to only do condition reports?
No, although some people/organisations may choose to have them done by people who are registered.
@@jwflame Thank you for the reply John.
This subject confused me a lot !
Cause some people say different and the other different.
i’ve C&G 18 edition ,2391-52 and
work as Self-employment.
I was always struggling to find the correct answer that if can carry out EICR or not for the rental properties
So,basically the answer is yes then !?
23:53 (4.15 Single pole switching) What is the reason against DP MCBs is it regards TN-C-S systems ? Outside the UK asking. Great video.
DP MCBs are permitted, although rarely used.
If they are single pole, they must be in the line conductor. However if double pole are installed, then that is also acceptable.
Thanks. As always looking forward to the next vid.
Thanks John
Thanks for another great video. But I'd love to have known what code you'd have given to the things you talked about. ( C1, C2, C3, FI, etc.).
For example what would you give a situation that was not complying to even the regs under which it was installed but neither would changing it 'contribute to a significant enhancement of the safety of the installation' thus earning a C3? Like no brown sleeving on the blue of a twin and earth used as a switch wire? (Or the examples on page 18 of the Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 4 on EICRs)?
You'd not want to give it a tick because it isn't correct but neither a C3. There seem to be a whole host of things in this category.
Items like that are N/A or not applicable if there is a box for them on the form, otherwise they are not mentioned on the report.
Great video. Im a qualified electrician, self employed 17th edition etc. But not got my inspection & test certificate.. Although I know how to test and what to look for. Who should fill in certificates? There seems to be a grey area to me. Im not a member of an organisation NICEIC, Napit, Elecsa, etc either. I try to avoid doing "notifiable work" but occasionally need to cross over into it. Is it acceptable for me to complete installation certs, and do EICRs, etc? I do Minor work certs where I need to but the old one keeps cropping up.. "competent, skilled person" I am a bit worried that someone can just write out these certs and class themselves as "skilled, competent" I know my work complies with BS7671 but who is checking it if im not a registered approved electrician? I am currently looking at doing my 2392 course.. It's pricey but at the same time don't want to join an organisation either. Whats your thoughts?
Hi do the course. send in your details to the jib board after 2 years you become approved on your jib gold card. in the mean time while it just says installation electrician on your gold card. you can still get work testing as long as you show your certificate qualification when you complete the course
Competent persons would be some who holds the inspection and testing qualification.
You need to be a competent person (qualified electrician nvq3) no you don't need to be a member of a scheme that's bullshit
Anybody can do their testing you don't need to be qualified I here this time after time I've worked with mates who have testing
It is not necessary to belong to any organisation to complete certificates.
For the minor works and installation certificates - if you are competent enough to install and test your own work, you are certainly capable of filling in the certificate as well.
The EICR does require significantly more knowledge and experience of what to look for, but no requirement to belong to any organisation for those either.
if you do an inspection and it has failed, you list the remedials and complete the remidials it then passes, do you issue a certificate thats failed then issue a certificate again with satisfactory on it??
When the remedial work is done, a minor works or installation certificate would be issued, that would be kept together with the EICR so that it can be seen that the defects listed were subsequently repaired.
You don't need a second EICR after the faults are fixed.
Hi John, I noticed your pictures feature a lot of my work? Can I get some kind of commission?
Finally something relevant to the trade and not crap about taking stuff apart :)
I must say i saw no identification on some nuetrals also and with mixed colour confusion sould happen also. No cover on buzzbar and just a bit messy in the workmanship side im sure ive missed something else need to watch it back.the next pick the board could have a liquid fall onto it also seeing as its so low
you didn't mention if absence of rcd for additional protection would warrent a C2 or C3..could you give us a clue please
C3. 10:00 14:47
+John Ward Thanks JW☺
Its amazing how bad some work is
Back in the late 70s when i got my electrical lic in california it was easy just send in your box tops and the main thing your money. I would probably fail the test if i were to take it today
I wouldn't let an electrician into my house unless he/she had a form 27B/6.
.
Let's say I'm doing an EICR on a church. What do I put down as 'Occupier'. . . God?
me from the Poland, me come Englands 1 years ago and I just the tick the boxes on this form and collect £250. I have no education in UK and I only take cash payment I love the England the money is very well. But British qualified electricians hate me haha because they say my work is very very lowest bad
me from the Poland, me come Englands 1 years ago and I just the tick the boxes on this form and do it 3 times a day collect £250 each one. Easy money haha I just tick boxes I don’t know haha I have no education in UK and I only take cash payment I love the England the money is very well. But British qualified electricians hate me haha because they say my work is very very lowest bad
Well you are a fucking idiot then.